andrel wrote:
> So why does it say something different than the thing I selected? I have 
> selected 'sluimerstand' (slumber) which is what you call 'hibernate' 
> (save status to disk and power down), if I understand correctly. The 
> button gives a tooltip for 'sleepmode' (keep in memory and reduce power).

I noticed those two are combined on my menu. I think this is *exactly* the 
sort of confusion you get when you try to make it simpler than it really is.

Sleep mode is basically hibernate without turning off the power to the 
memory. Once the fans and such stop, you can pull the plug and you'll be 
fine when you boot it up.

>>> Why put it in the power management control in the first place?
>>
>> It seems the obvious place to put configuration for what to do with
>> power buttons. Where would you put it?
> 
> Anywhere on it's own. Not mixed up with something unrelated where I can 
> only find it by a) knowing it must be there b) eleminating even less 
> likely options

If you're going to bundle up sets of options, "power" seems the right place 
to put power buttons. If you want a separate control panel just for power 
buttons, then you're going to have separate control panels for volume of 
speakers vs volume of headphones?

In any case, search pretty much takes care of that. Put in "button" and the 
control panel's first choice is "change what the power buttons do". You 
click on that and it gives you a screen with two sections: "wht happens when 
I push buttons", and "do I want a password when I wake up". Since you wake 
up by pushing the button, I don't see the problem there.

It's totally easy to say "it's confusing to me", but unless you have a 
better design, it's hard to say whether it's the design or the understanding 
of the basic concepts that's wrong.  For example, right-click of the power 
button taking you to the power button setting page was a better design.

> That does not what I want apparently/possibly. I am mostly using the 
> menu (that I want deleted) because I am not sure what the other buttons 
> do. And because it changes behaviour if there is an update and when it 
> does I definitely do not want to select it by accident, so I try not to 
> get into the habit of using it. :(

Well, you can turn off the "change it when I get an update".

What you're really saying is "I don't like having a do-what-I-mean button, 
but actually picking the option that I *do* want is too confusing"?

>>> You don't. You put the most commonly used one under the button and
>>> allow easy temporary overrides. Right click on the button.
>>
>> Or, hey, maybe we could have *another* button nearby that pops up the
>> list of other less-common operations you might want to perform!
> 
> No, that is an configuration option. Right click therefore. No new UI 
> elements.

It's not a configuration option if it doesn't persist past the current 
operation. I already granted that changing what the main icon does with a 
right-click would make sense. Changing what the pop-up-the-menu button does 
with a right click makes no sense.

> Nope. I am using MS product for many years I normally understand what 
> they mean. If I don't, I blame them. In this case for introducing too 
> much, unnecessary and poorly defined new concepts and for hiring 
> incompetent translators.

Other than "lock" and "switch user" now being synonymous (at least with the 
standard login screens[*]), I don't think the concepts are unnecessary or 
poorly designed by the time you get to Vista. Indeed, that's exactly what I 
was objecting to in Joel's article. He thinks these options are unnecessary, 
and there should just be one "close the lid" option. I disagree with that, 
exactly because (A) I understand what each means and (B) I use each on a 
fairly regular basis.

>> I am a physicist, I cannot remember facts, but I won't
>>> forget something that I understand.
>>
>> Then clearly you never understood it in the first place, right? :-)
> 
> right, that is what I said. I think it is mainly because there is too 
> much inconsistent information.

It's pretty easy. "Switch user" locks the screen and takes you to the one 
that asks you who you want to log in as. "Lock" locks the screen and takes 
you to the one that prompts for a password. (These two could probably be 
collapsed into one, but I wonder if things like smart cards or fingerprint 
readers or hand-writing sign-ins or something might fiddle with one screen 
or the other, providing a technical reason for having them separate.)

"Log off" terminates your programs and logs you out but leaves the machine 
running. "Reboot" turns it off and back on again after logging everyone out. 
"Shut down" turns it off after logging everyone out. "Sleep" writes all 
memory out to disk and turns off (essentially) everything but the RAM and 
wake-from-sleep devices, and eventually turns off the power if you're on 
batteries. "Hibernate" (which isn't even on my menu) writes all memory out 
to disk and shuts off all the power. "Install updates and shut down" does 
what it says, except it skips updates that you have to manually agree to the 
license terms for.

All of these are operations that have been around since laptops got a 
reliable way to sleep.  And they're all common terms, at least in english. 
Which ones were you unsure about?

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
  "How did he die?"   "He got shot in the hand."
     "That was fatal?"
          "He was holding a live grenade at the time."

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