On 1/12/2011 11:28 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:01:50 -0500, Warp wrote:
>
>> Jim Henderson<nos### [at] nospamcom>  wrote:
>>> I fail to see how telling
>>> people "if you believe in something, practice it" comes even close to
>>> establishing a state-sponsored religion
>>
>>    For fair balance, shouldn't there be a "Nation Day of Atheism"? You
>>    can
>> make the exact same arguments: It's not promoting atheism nor forcing
>> anybody to be atheist. You can be atheist if you want, but it's your
>> choice.
>
> Actually, there is one - and it's usually (now) held on the same day as
> the NDP IIRC.
>
> Jim
I also here there is a "national body awareness day", AKA, "national 
nude day", but I don't see anyone in congress, or the president, 
standing up and declaring *either* a NBAD day, *or* a, "national day of 
keep your clothes on". The people *in* the government are far more 
Christian, usually, than the ones that elected them. Few, if any, are 
anything else, with the exception of some Jewish people. The presidents 
have *all* been Christian. It is irrelevant if the "indended" result 
isn't sectarian. You might as well go to Africa and not complain when 
the local president, with great cheers from everyone else in the 
government, and a lot of stupid speeches about the "blackness" of 
Africa, declared a, "National day of not being white."

What matters is the result, the perceived support it lends to the 
majority religion, the very narrow list of "faiths" that tend to get 
mentioned, and that it *supports*, how ever unintended, the position of 
people who *literally* believe that the government *can* be totally 
Christian, supporting it, endorsing it, etc., just so long as they 
"allow" everyone else to worship as they please (just not marry, have 
sex in certain ways, dress, look, speak, think, sell, buy, own, or 
publicly display what they wish, if it offends the sort of Christians 
that those people believe qualify).

Its this thinking, and the inadvertent support for it, which makes the 
national day of prayer a problem. For them, it *does* endorse it, and 
they quite clearly do not think that "endorsing" religion, even their 
own, is a problem, only denying others their own (save, again, for any 
conflicts in expression, in which case their own overrides the "wrong" one).

We see it all the damn time, in everything from the 100% church driven 
drive to get Prop 8 passed, to violence against minority religions, 
which gets brushed off as, "Well, its a small town, so.. And they won 
the case, even if they lost their business, home, etc., due to having to 
move.", to you name it. Its the same argument some atheists give 
"against" those they call "accommidationists". If you give ground, you 
find yourself not addressing one clear issue, you find that the issue 
gets buried under a dozen stray men, 50 irrelevant issues, and 100 
unrelated cases/assertions. Even if you win, you lose, since merely 
trying to win will result in cries of persecution. Nah, merely 
suggesting that you might have a relevant point about *any* religion 
does, even from the people that don't follow it.

The whole "Nation day of Atheism" thing is precisely what they would 
like to see atheists do, or anyone else with the "wrong religion", or 
who doesn't pray. We do our thing, you do yours, just so long as its out 
of sight, in the basement, with the door locked, and we don't hear any 
of it. After all, we outnumber you, and most of us are *sure* God = 
Jesus. Suggesting otherwise is persecution, and how dare you do that on 
the "national day of prayer".

This is the logic we are trying to deal with here. What is "intended", 
never mind "legal" doesn't mean jack, if 10% of the people think its 
about *them*, 60% of them don't give a shit, as long as you *are* 
praying, and everyone that isn't is seen as stupid, abnormal, wrong 
headed, or even Un-American, for not "joining in", and the 20% that 
don't care *also* don't care to try to change the situation. Its about 
perception, not strict legality. And, just as you can't cry "fire" in a 
crowded theater, it is not appropriate to cry, "All you people are 
special, if you are one of the ones that prays", in a nation where most 
of them see it as reflecting one religion, some see it as *only* about 
that one religion, and it actively excludes those that do not believe in 
doing it at all, including other religions.

-- 
void main () {
   If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

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