Patrick Elliott <sel### [at] npgcablecom> wrote:
> 1) Once you provide a definition that could be, it becomes testable, and 
> if it actually applied to the real world, would pretty much eliminate it 
> as "supernatural".

  There's a complication with the definition of the concept "natural".
"Natural" would be something bound to the laws of the Universe. *This*
Universe where we are in.

  Now, it may be possible that this Universe is all that there is. There's
nothing outside this Universe (and it's not only that "there's nothing
outside this Universe", but moreover, there is no outside, the "outside"
doesn't exist; this Universe is all that there is).

  If there is somehing outside of this Universe, it could not be bound to
the laws of this Universe because eg. time and space, iow. the geometry
of this Univserse, is bound by definition to this Universe, and this
geometry does not extend outside. This Universe is a closed system in
geometry and content (nothing inside can leave it by our current
understanding of the laws of this Universe. because there is no way
out, due to the Universe's geometry).

  Hence if there is something outside of this Universe (ie. the "outside"
*exists* in some way), it has to exist in some kind of "superior" form
of existence which is not bound by the geometry and laws of our Universe.
Maybe the geometry of the "outside" (if we can define it as such, with
our limited view of the Universe) is more complicated than ours, and our
Universe's geometry is only a subset of this "supergeometry".

  Likewise the physical laws of our Universe would probably be a subset
of the physical laws of this "superuniverse".

  Thus if we define "natural" as anything inside our Universe and bound
to its physical laws, anything *outside* our Universe (if it exists) would,
by definition, be "supernatural" (in the sense that it would be bound to
a *superset* of our own physical laws).

  Of course even if there is a "superuniverse" (within which our Universe
is only a small subset), that doesn't automatically imply that there
exists any intelligent "life" (by whatever definition) there, or any
"life" at all. Maybe our Universe simply popped into existence inside
this "superuniverse" by some ("supernatural") physical phenomenon there
(something popping out of nothing is actually not a completely alien
concept even inside our own Universe, with quantum mechanics having
defined such concepts already, eg. in the form of virtual particles).
Maybe there are countless universes popping into existence in this
"superuniverse", each one with differing energy and internal physical
laws (and our Universe just happened by chance to be perfect to form
life as we know it).

  A "superuniverse" hypothesis is most probably not testable for the
very reason that we are completely bound to the laws and geometry of
our own Universe. We have no way to reach the "outside" (because there
is no "outside" as far as this Universe is concerned, because we are
bound to its internal geometry, which knows no "outside").

  However, if there is a "superuniverse", and our "sub-universe" (if we
can call it like that) popped into existence inside it, that
"superuniverse" would be, by definition, supernatural.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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