On Sun, 02 May 2010 02:35:56 -0400, Warp wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> In the US, we're supposed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.
>> You're starting with a presumption of guilt, which goes against the
>> ideals under which this law is created.
> 
>   So if you go to a grocery store and use your credit card to buy
>   something
> and they want to check your ID to make sure you are the real owner of
> the card, are they presuming you guilty until you prove you are not? Or
> is this simply a security measure which, on the grand scale, benefits
> you as well as everybody else?
> 
>   If you enter the country and at the airport they check your baggage
>   using
> an X-ray machine, are they presuming you guilty? Or is this just a
> security measure?
> 
>   If a police officer asks for your ID to check that you have the right
>   to
> live in the country, is he presuming you guilty, or is it just a
> security measure?

He's presuming you're guilty, because he has to have probable cause to 
pull you over to ask if you're legally in the country.  Being brown isn't 
sufficient.

>   You make it sound like in that last case the situation is different,
>   for
> some reason.

It is.  You fail to see it or understand it.

>> Based. On. Skin. Colour.
> 
>   Why are people so damn obsessed with skin color? Criminal profiling
>   does
> not have anything to do with racism. Skin color is just one feature
> which can be used for profiling.

Not in the US, not legally.  That's the point.

>   If most illegal immigrants happen to look similar, it only makes sense
> to concentrate resources on people who look like that. It's the same as
> the vast majority of rapists being male, hence it it makes sense to
> concentrate resources on investigating males and skipping females.
> Nobody is crying sexism because of that.

Nobody that you're aware of, perhaps.

>   I really think people are way too hypersensitive with any kind of
> profiling based precisely on skin color. Any other type of profiling is
> ok, but heaven forbid if you start using skin color as a distinctive
> feature. The second you do that, all human rights are flushed down the
> toilet. Sheesh.

You're not allowed to profile in the US based on religious beliefs, 
ethnicity, sexual orientation, or other factors.  Just like you can't use 
those to make hiring decisions.

>> Nothing else.  If you *look* like an illegal, you are presumed guilty
>> until you prove otherwise.  This could be a daily occurrence IF YOU
>> HAPPEN TO HAVE THE WRONG COLOUR SKIN.
> 
>> Hell, it could happen HOURLY.
> 
>> Wouldn't that piss YOU off if YOU were constantly having to prove that
>> you were in your country legally?
> 
>   If it significantly increased my own security, I wouldn't. (Of course
> I'm not saying that's the case here. I'm just saying that there are more
> sides to this than an extremist political correctness.)

Well, then, come on over here and I'll see to it that you're asked hourly 
to provide proof that you're here legally.  Including in the middle of 
the night, just for safety's sake.

Jim

Post a reply to this message