On 12/14/09 14:06, Darren New wrote:
>>> It would be interesting to see how big a subset it really is. That
>>> argument goes out the door when it's actually a majority of muslims that
>>> feel that way.
>>
>> Let's get precise. What is "that way"?
>
> Well, in this case, it would be either that violence is an appropriate
> response to criticism of your religion, or that Sharia should replace
> democracy as a governmental form in their current democratic country of
> residence.

	While many like Sharia, they don't view it in the absolutes that you 
do. The majority seem to say that they want both democracy and Sharia:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/104731/muslims-want-democracy-theocracy.aspx

	Here's a Gallup poll (perhaps the same one):

http://www.gallup.com/poll/28678/framing-war-terror.aspx

	Essentially, they found little links between the level of religiosity 
and the support for violence, and those who were against violence were 
against it for religious reasons, while those who were in favor of it 
quoted nonreligious reasons. Interestingly enough, the politically 
radicalized minority favored "democratic values" like freedom of the 
press more than their moderate counterparts did.

	(So, religious moderates are more likely to promote violence than the 
strongly religious? I guess we need to define these terms).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/26/radicalisation-european-muslims

	Quotes another Gallup poll of Muslims in France and Germany - the vast 
majority of which stated they were against violence against civilians 
(aside: It scares me that I have to point stuff like this out...). More 
importantly, """responses were not determined by religious practice - 
with no difference between devout worshippers and those for whom 
"religion [was] not important"."""

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8038398.stm

	Here, while democracy is not mentioned explicitly, it shows that in 
some European countries, a greater percentage of the Muslim population 
identified with that country than did the general population. For example:

"""German Muslims were also found far more likely than the general 
public to have confidence in the judicial system, financial institutions 
and the honesty of elections."""

	Although in this case it was 40% of Muslims, so who knows - perhaps the 
other 60% wants to overthrow the government and have Sharia. I'd like to 
see a study showing that, before I believe it.

	Here's a Pew Poll:

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=253

	See the chart about what percentage of Muslims (including in some 
European countries) think about democracy.

	Now I don't particularly doubt that you could look and find opposing 
data if you focus on a certain geographic region. Ever watch the Hans 
Rosling TED talks? Everyone should. The point he makes in each one is 
that it's stupid to talk of Africans and Africa, because there's so much 
diversity that just about any statement one makes is going to be wrong 
for a big bunch - and often for the majority.

	The sentiment and arguments are not unique to Africans, obviously, but 
for any large group - and the number of Muslims exceeds the number of 
Africans, as do their geographic spread.
	
	Getting back to the main topic, as I said in another post, the really 
valid question that needs answering is about the behavior of the Muslims 
in Switzerland. That they may do funny things in, say, Malmo is irrelevant.

-- 
If you think nobody cares, try missing a couple of payments.

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