On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 09:41:14 +0000, Invisible wrote:

>>>> Fact:  People get paid to write programs in Haskell.
>>> Yes. In the entire world, there are approximately 50 of them, I would
>>> estimate.
>> 
>> That estimate is based on what....?
> 
> The size of Galios, Well Typed and the Haskell division of MSRC, plus a
> few percent for random people and companies scattered around the world
> that might also be using it.

You might find it is a larger number than you think.

>> You could probably get a tech job with Nokia if you actually applied
>> for one.
> 
> Do *you* have any evidence whatsoever to back up such a bold claim?

I can guarantee you won't get a job there if you don't apply.

> They don't let just anybody work for Nokia, after all...

Right, they only let people who actually apply for jobs there work there.

>>> I would think my level of skill and experience would be a far bigger
>>> problem. It's not exactly like I live in some small village in the
>>> middle of nowhere...
>> 
>> What you've demonstrated here is a fair amount of skill.  Experience
>> comes with time.  Nobody leaves school or their first job with massive
>> amounts of experience.
> 
> Well Warp seems fairly convinced that I'm a rubbish programmer - and,
> AFAIK, he's the only person here who writes programs for a living. My
> total inability to spell properly is the stuff of legend. I'm pretty
> hopeless with mathematics too... What makes you think I have skills?

Warp is one person.  You've written code I couldn't have written with the 
skills I've developed over the years.

As for your writing - your spelling could be improved, yes - but so can 
mine, and I've been a professional writer.  Big F'ing Deal.  Nobody 
writes perfect copy 100% of the time.  I read your blog regularly, and I 
find it generally well-written and interesting.  I track it with Google 
Reader and every time you write a new post, I see it.

As for your maths skills, you understand a lot more about mathematics 
than I do, and I took a couple of calculus courses in pursuit of a 
engineering degree (a degree that I didn't earn because I couldn't hack 
the integral calculus class).

>> Bingo, that's my point.  Some people can't expect to be employed near
>> where they live because where they live may not be near the jobs
>> they're able to do.
> 
> Erm... like I say, I don't know of anybody who had to move just to find
> work.

But you also admit that you don't know that many people.  I do know 
people who have moved for work and who have had to move for work.

>> If you really want to be a programmer, then fix that point.  If staying
>> in MK is more important, then fix that point and get a job bagging
>> groceries & stocking shelves at the local Tesco or Safeway. 
>> Personally, I get the impression that you would be happier programming,
>> but it's YOUR life and not mine - so if the desire to stay in MK is
>> that strong for you, then stay there and find a job - any job - in the
>> area.
> 
> Amusingly - or perhaps not? - I hear Benny's teenage son who's still at
> school earns more money than me stacking shelves part-time at Tesco.
> Which is slightly ridiculous, considering I spent 6 years of my life in
> higher education...

Different jobs pay different rates; the manufacturing company I worked at 
I actually started working on the assembly line building the widgets they 
make.  Some of the people who worked the line had done so for 20+ years, 
and I learned very quickly that it was a mistake to think of it as 
unskilled labor - it's pretty highly skilled labor, and many of those 
people made as much money then (I'm talking about the late 80's here) as 
I make today doing what I do.  I was always amazed to drive into the 
parking lot and see a lot of very expensive cars and then realise that 
they weren't the office workers' vehicles, but the shop staff's 
vehicles.  Mercedes, BMW, etc - not uncommon in that parking lot at the 
time.

> Anyway, I'm not looking at stacking shelves just yet. I'm thinking about
> system administration - basically, doing a job like the one I currently
> do, but for money. Let's face it, at least I can walk into the room and
> say "I have *actually done this* for the last 7 years. I can prove I
> know how to do this."

That's a step in the right direction, to be sure.  So apply for sysadmin 
jobs in the area - don't concern yourself too much with what the company 
does - or pick a company that works in an industry you're interested in.  
Working in IT does give a lot of flexibility because systems admin work 
is pretty much the same everywhere, but it gives you an opportunity to 
learn something about the business you work for as well.  I did sysadmin 
work in companies that did manufacturing, retail, pharmacies, benefits 
administration, and a call centers (some of the jobs covered multiple 
areas; the benefits administration company operated a call center, so I 
got to learn about how those work).  I started each of those jobs with no 
prior experience in the industry.

Jim

Post a reply to this message