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On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 09:41:14 +0000, Invisible wrote:
>>>> Fact: People get paid to write programs in Haskell.
>>> Yes. In the entire world, there are approximately 50 of them, I would
>>> estimate.
>>
>> That estimate is based on what....?
>
> The size of Galios, Well Typed and the Haskell division of MSRC, plus a
> few percent for random people and companies scattered around the world
> that might also be using it.
You might find it is a larger number than you think.
>> You could probably get a tech job with Nokia if you actually applied
>> for one.
>
> Do *you* have any evidence whatsoever to back up such a bold claim?
I can guarantee you won't get a job there if you don't apply.
> They don't let just anybody work for Nokia, after all...
Right, they only let people who actually apply for jobs there work there.
>>> I would think my level of skill and experience would be a far bigger
>>> problem. It's not exactly like I live in some small village in the
>>> middle of nowhere...
>>
>> What you've demonstrated here is a fair amount of skill. Experience
>> comes with time. Nobody leaves school or their first job with massive
>> amounts of experience.
>
> Well Warp seems fairly convinced that I'm a rubbish programmer - and,
> AFAIK, he's the only person here who writes programs for a living. My
> total inability to spell properly is the stuff of legend. I'm pretty
> hopeless with mathematics too... What makes you think I have skills?
Warp is one person. You've written code I couldn't have written with the
skills I've developed over the years.
As for your writing - your spelling could be improved, yes - but so can
mine, and I've been a professional writer. Big F'ing Deal. Nobody
writes perfect copy 100% of the time. I read your blog regularly, and I
find it generally well-written and interesting. I track it with Google
Reader and every time you write a new post, I see it.
As for your maths skills, you understand a lot more about mathematics
than I do, and I took a couple of calculus courses in pursuit of a
engineering degree (a degree that I didn't earn because I couldn't hack
the integral calculus class).
>> Bingo, that's my point. Some people can't expect to be employed near
>> where they live because where they live may not be near the jobs
>> they're able to do.
>
> Erm... like I say, I don't know of anybody who had to move just to find
> work.
But you also admit that you don't know that many people. I do know
people who have moved for work and who have had to move for work.
>> If you really want to be a programmer, then fix that point. If staying
>> in MK is more important, then fix that point and get a job bagging
>> groceries & stocking shelves at the local Tesco or Safeway.
>> Personally, I get the impression that you would be happier programming,
>> but it's YOUR life and not mine - so if the desire to stay in MK is
>> that strong for you, then stay there and find a job - any job - in the
>> area.
>
> Amusingly - or perhaps not? - I hear Benny's teenage son who's still at
> school earns more money than me stacking shelves part-time at Tesco.
> Which is slightly ridiculous, considering I spent 6 years of my life in
> higher education...
Different jobs pay different rates; the manufacturing company I worked at
I actually started working on the assembly line building the widgets they
make. Some of the people who worked the line had done so for 20+ years,
and I learned very quickly that it was a mistake to think of it as
unskilled labor - it's pretty highly skilled labor, and many of those
people made as much money then (I'm talking about the late 80's here) as
I make today doing what I do. I was always amazed to drive into the
parking lot and see a lot of very expensive cars and then realise that
they weren't the office workers' vehicles, but the shop staff's
vehicles. Mercedes, BMW, etc - not uncommon in that parking lot at the
time.
> Anyway, I'm not looking at stacking shelves just yet. I'm thinking about
> system administration - basically, doing a job like the one I currently
> do, but for money. Let's face it, at least I can walk into the room and
> say "I have *actually done this* for the last 7 years. I can prove I
> know how to do this."
That's a step in the right direction, to be sure. So apply for sysadmin
jobs in the area - don't concern yourself too much with what the company
does - or pick a company that works in an industry you're interested in.
Working in IT does give a lot of flexibility because systems admin work
is pretty much the same everywhere, but it gives you an opportunity to
learn something about the business you work for as well. I did sysadmin
work in companies that did manufacturing, retail, pharmacies, benefits
administration, and a call centers (some of the jobs covered multiple
areas; the benefits administration company operated a call center, so I
got to learn about how those work). I started each of those jobs with no
prior experience in the industry.
Jim
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