Warp wrote:
>   There are only two possible conclusions we can make from this:

I think you are assuming a bit much to pick only two possible
conclusions. Time and, by connection, our progression through it which
we happen to call life may not be deterministic either.

> 
> 1) The human mind does not transcend beyond the physical world, which means
> that free choice does not exist. Everything the human mind comes up with is
> predetermined by deterministic events, sometimes garbled by random quantum
> effects. This is not free choice.
> 
> 2) The human mind does transcend beyond the physical world as we know it,
> and is able to perform true choices which change deterministic chains of
> events in non-random ways. In other words, the human consciousness is more
> than just the electric impulses in our brain.
>
>   The religious (and possibly agnostic) point of view chooses option number 2.
> The atheist point of view must therefore choose option number 1, unless an
> explanation of how the human mind can affect deterministic events in a
> non-random way is given. Free choice is just an illusion.
>

Why must an atheist pick option one? Physics has not, as far as I know,
proven that the universe is a completely deterministic place. Nor do all
religions speak about a free will.

So, for the sake of argument, allow me to propose a way that a human
could prove some free will in the universe. Someone, anyone reading
this, type out several replies to Warp's statements. Some supporting,
some against, and some nonsensical if you wish. Then, using a
nondeterministic source of random numbers to pick one of the replies,
post it. Do not tell us that you are doing this, just take that stance
in the discussion.

If the rest of us are deterministic, you will have chanced the input and
 chain of events, and therefor the future of this discussion. The chain
of events that this nondeterministic 'choice' sets off may add up to
something in the future, or it may get drowned out by other noise.

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