"Neeum Zawan" <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote in message
news:4a857321$1@news.povray.org...
> On 08/14/09 05:20, somebody wrote:

> And while I'm fine with the Canadian model, I do have to ask: Why did
> you bring them into the discussion? The proposed health bill is not
> based off of them, and there are other universal health care countries
> that are ranked above Canada.

It's an example of a poorer implementation of so called socialized medicine
in a developed country. Yes, there are better examples, but my point is to
emphasize that switching systems is not a guarantee of improvement.

> > retroactively and in panic mode, keep pushing life threatening
conditions to
> > the front of the long and growing wait lines. In the meantime, some in
the
> > months or years long list either progress to the point of becoming life
> > threatening (a mixed blessing, for then they will be pushed to the
front),

> Nice in theory. I see little evidence of this. I have close friends
> who've lived in Canada for over a decade now. They haven't encountered
> this. The long wait times are almost always for things that _can_ wait
> that long.

Yes, a bum knee or hip won't kill you, nor will even going blind, but I
wouldn't consider waiting several years for those routine surgeries
acceptable health care. Canadian health care is great if you don't need to
see a specialist, and if you were lucky enough to have found a family
doctor, and if you stay healthy in general, needing simple prescriptions
every now and then. Something that actually is the case for majority of
people. But health is one of those things you only deal with when it's gone,
and then the reality may be different.

The same is true for Americans, of course, in that at any given time,
majority of the people don't need or have contact with health care. The only
difference is, they do feel the financial burden of health care explicitly
(instead of through taxes), so it's not easy to forget about health care or
insurance even when one's healthy.

> A number of points:
>
> 1. For each horror story you bring to me from Canada, I'll bring 10 more
> of the current system in the US.

You'd better, just to break even. Population of US is 10 times that of
Canada.

> Statistics do a much better job at telling the story than individual
cases.

Sure, but I would be careful to not limit statistics to mortality rates, but
include quality of health issues like wait list times. That said, when it
comes to things like infant mortality rates, Canada ranks near the bottom,
second to last only to US among OECD nations, IIRC.

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