On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:45:29 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> "Knowing" isn't *just* a state of mind, is what I'm trying to express.

That's a fair point, and something I hadn't considered before.

>> Well, my specific experience was the reverse - I wasn't dreaming
> 
> No, because then you would have discounted it. :-)

Very likely, yes. :-)

>> But I see what you mean and will have to think on that more as well.
> 
> Cool.

I find that life is generally full of challenges to things that one 
asserts as true - and that "truth" (as commonly used from a philosophical 
standpoint rather than a scientific or mathematical standpoint) is 
something that depends on circumstances.  So accepting a perception as 
truth means that often it has to be subject to change.

>> Hmm, an interesting point, and something else to think about.
> 
> These are fun things to think about. I find it's actually kind of
> refreshing and liberating to realize that I might be wrong in my deepest
> convictions. It makes discussions of various philosophical stuff much
> more interesting.

Same here (that's what I was trying to say above, and as always, you said 
much more eloquently <g>).  It takes a willingness to accept that one 
might be wrong about something that's a deeply held conviction, though, 
and it's rare that people do that.  I think that's a real shame.

>> I think part of it with me is that I tend to attribute "faith" and
>> "belief" with "religion", so I shy away from those terms because of
>> those connotations, which I consider undesirable connotations.
> 
> I don't have a problem with faith, even of a religious nature. It's when
> that "faith" turns into "knowledge" and therefore "you should do X" that
> causes trouble, religion or not. For example, in college at one point my
> mother became convinced I was doing drugs, and she wanted to see all my
> class schedules and wanted me to come home promptly. (I was commuting to
> college at the time.) I, *knowing* I wasn't doing drugs, just laughed
> and refused. No amount of confidence, belief, or faith on her part was
> going to convince me I had to change my behavior to stop doing drugs I
> wasn't already doing. So maybe I'm a little oversensitive to people
> claiming something is true simply because they're really, really
> convinced it is.

That makes a lot of sense and provides an interesting insight into your 
perspective - thank you for sharing it.

Jim

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