On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 19:06:27 -0700, Chambers wrote:

>> So, all that stuff I hear about not drinking caffeine and such, that's
>> not "the LDS church telling people what to specifically do"?
> 
> If you want to get into dietary restraints, the Jewish teachings are
> much more restrictive.  All that stuff about not drinking caffeine is
> BS.

Um, no, actually, it's not, at least not according to Bishop H. Burke 
Peterson, First Counselor in the Presiding Bishopric in 1975.  He 
interpreted the D&C specifically around the logic that:

1.  D&C 89:10 refers to "all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for teh 
constitution, nature, and use of man."
2.  D&C 89:11:  "All these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving"
3.  Two tests can be employed:  Is it wholesome?  Is it Prudent?

Cola drinks contain caffeine, a drug.  Caffeine is not wholesome nor 
prudent for the use of our bodies.  Therefore, as the Bishop wrote, "It 
is only sound judgment to conclude that cola drinks and any others that 
contain caffeine or other harmful ingredients should not be used."  (Q&A, 
New Era, Oct. 1975.)

Does this apply today?  You bet.  Just go to The Roof (I have) and try 
ordering a caffeinated beverage.  (The Roof is a Church-owned restaurant 
in the Joseph Smith building here in Salt Lake City)

>> Well, sure. And if the teaching is "gay people are evil and should be
>> repressed at every opportunity, and black people are literally spawn of
>> satan on earth", you don't think that's telling people how to live
>> their lives?  Isn't telling people specifically how to live their lives
>> what churches are *for*?
> 
> I think you have a different church in mind.  The LDS church never said
> "gay people are evil and should be repressed at every opportunity, and
> black people are literally spawn of satan on earth."

On the issue of blacks, I agree - though it's strangely odd that the 
civil rights movement coincided with the church's "enlightenment" on 
people of colour being allowed into the priesthood. O_o

And no, the LDS church never said "gay people are evil and should be 
repressed" - but they do say that homosexual or lesbian behaviour is a 
sexual sin violating God's "law of chastity".  As a result, many people 
in leadership roles in the church (maybe not in the First Presidency or 
the Quorum of the 12, I don't follow it that closely) have tried to 
"cure" those who are gay.

> Individual members may have espoused those beliefs, but they aren't the
> majority, and any time someone in a position of authority starts saying
> stuff like that the higher-ups come down pretty hard on them.

Got an example of that?  I've not found one myself...

Jim

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