On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 09:47:43 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> On the other hand, somebody taught in a classroom would have a
>>> complete coverage of the subject, not just bits and pieces of it.
>> 
>> With advanced topics, it's rare that a classroom experience will give
>> you truly complete coverage of the subject.
> 
> No, but it's hard to learn advanced stuff when you don't have a thorough
> understanding of the basics yet.

It's all relative.

>> You seem to do very well with self-study.  That's not a bad thing, and
>> many employers prefer people who say that they are self-motivated to
>> learn new things.  Often times they'll prefer that over scads of formal
>> education, contrary to what the job posting says the minimum
>> requirements are.
> 
> Yeah, well, you can't really put that in a CV or an application.

Sure you can.  How do you think I got my first job doing systems admin 
out of school?  I didn't learn NetWare systems administration in the 
classroom, I am entirely self-taught, and after two years, I co-wrote 
what is still thought by many as the definitive book on troubleshooting 
the directory service for the platform.  That led me to a job where I 
taught people what I'd written about.

All entirely with ZERO formal education on the subject matter.

Out of all the job interviews I did, only one company was distressed by 
my lack of formal education on the subject matter (and consequently they 
were unimpressed with my being a co0author of the ONLY book on the 
subject of troubleshooting the directory service on the platform).  That 
company was Iomega.  And I'm glad that I didn't take that job - after 
seeing the emphasis they put on "formal education" compared to 
"experience", I would've been very unhappy there - probably moreso than 
the company I was trying to leave.

>>> I worry though - on paper, I don't sound very impressive at all. Will
>>> I ever get past the initial deselection?
>> 
>> You don't sound impressive to you because you're you.  Don't guess at
>> what other people are or aren't impressed by, and trust those of us who
>> say that you are impressive.
> 
> I sound good to you guys because you know what I'm actually like. On a
> CV or a job application, there isn't much space to communicate stuff,
> and I fear I don't have the magical words that make me look impressive.

That's why we've helped you.  You still think you sound unimpressive, but 
I can tell you that if I were a hiring manager looking for someone with 
your abilities, I'd hire you on the spot.  I've kept my eyes open 
internally, in fact, for something that would be a good fit, but (a) our 
nearest office to you is in Bracknell (about an hour south of you IIRC) 
and it's not  primarily a development centre.  We have an office in 
Dublin, Ireland as well, but your expressed desire to stay in or near MK 
really limits the opportunities, certainly with my employer.

>>> It's a web form. Any 6 year old with a web browser can submit an
>>> application. They must be getting several hundred million *per hour*.
>> 
>> Doubtful that they're getting that many per hour.
> 
> Hell, somebody somewhere probably has a PHP script hitting that form
> trying to see whether the CGI has any buffer overrun vulnerabilities
> which are exploitable. :-P

Not if their sysadmin is doing their job - which is to say that if 
someone is hitting the form that hard, the server utilization would be up 
- and the first step would be to look at the logs, obtain the IP address, 
and block it.

But on your part that's all supposition - you don't know that, so don't 
assume the worst, either. :-)

>>> Obviously they will have been prepared for this, and will have an
>>> automated system of some kind to filter out the garbage. I just hope
>>> they don't filter *me* out!
>> 
>> Well, we'll see - if they do for some reason, then it's on to the next
>> opportunity.  And the next.
> 
> Sure. They do grow on trees, after all...

If you'd expand the scope of your search, that would certainly help.

>>>> Give it a couple of days, and if you don't hear anything, write back.
>>> Don't have a way to do that.
>> 
>> Or call them.  I'm sure their office is listed in the phone book or the
>> number is available on the website.  Be creative in finding a way to
>> contact them, especially a company like Wolfram would likely be
>> impressed by the application of some problems solving techniques to
>> ensure that they got the application.
>> 
>> Hell, it may even be part of why they didn't send an automated
>> response. :-)
> 
> Well I can't see any contact details on their website at all. (Not an
> uncommon occurrance, actually.) I suppose I could just drive round
> Oxford until I see a fricking big building with Wolfram written on it...

Try Google.  Search for "Wolfram Oxford Location" (without the quotes).  
I did, first result gave a location AND a phone number.

As good as you are at research (and you are good at it), it's sometimes 
shocking you miss the easy route.

Further, if you go to the wolfram.com website and drill into the company 
pages, there's an application page (different than the one you filled 
out, more specific to Mathematica it seems) and there's a contact e-mail 
address listed at the bottom of the page:  resumes (at) wolfram (dot) com.

Jim

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