Darren New wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
>> There was no plot like that before Watchmen.  None at all. 
> 
> But there were plenty before Incredibles. Maybe Incredibles had 
> inspiration from batman or the bible.

There are no outlawed heroes nor huge squids in either Batman or the Bible.

> (I mean, superman *does* get 
> nailed up in the end of the bible, ya know?)

What does that even mean?  Yes, I know you're referring to Jesus.  And I 
know Superman is kind of a jewish messiah interpretation.  Just that 
what you say has no meaning in the context of this dialog.

>> Yes, but the point is:  why The Incredibles had copy-cat all these 
>> same choices
>> of staple fantasy/scifi literature as Watchmen?
> 
> I'm saying that lots and lots of staple fantasy/scifi written before 
> Watchmen had these same elements.

Yes, but not the very same and in the same order as they appear in 
Watchmen.  That constitutes a plot.

>>> Watchmen: Good guy main character is insane psychopathic killer.
>>>    Incredibles: No insane psychopathic killers.
>>
>> Prior to trying with Mr. Incredible, Syndrome had killed several past 
>> heroes
>> while bettering Omnidroid.  That's pretty psychopathic to me.
> 
> Nope. That's just murder. Soldiers aren't psycopathic.

Syndrome is not a soldier and his alias should be enough to see he has 
problems.  He was plainly hunting past heroes to feed his Omnidroid robots.

>> There's no bad guy in Watchmen, just human beings and dubious moral 
>> choices.
> 
> Yep. That was kind of my point in the list. They're completely different 
> movies.

Except with a similar plot.

> 
>>> To me, they seem like completely different movies,
>>
>> Watchmen is not a movie.  
> 
> Fine. They seem like completely different stories.  Watchmen the book 
> was even *more* different from Incredibles than Watchmen the movie.

No, it was more equal, since in the movie they replaced the monster in 
the end for another threat.  Perhaps they thought the audience would 
remember The Incredibles?  That can't be:  there's no heroic attempt to 
fight the monster anyway.

>> The Incredibles or Watchmen?  your choice...
> 
> Interesting. But as I say, if you also leave out the differences, it's a 
> little easier to line them up.  It's not like you're talking Romeo vs 
> West Side Story here.

I guess you can't trace a similar parallel between the plots for Matrix 
and The Incredibles.

> Put it this way. I don't think Bird said "Hey, let's make a movie that's 
> just like Watchmen, only cheery and family friendly!"

He set out to make a movie about super-heroes.  He had to draw some 
references.  How about the plot of one of the most acclaimed comic books 
in the genre?  How about also some references to some heroes from the 
antagonist publishing house, Marvel?  Fantastic Four is perfect, as they 
already are a family core.  Couple that with some Bond espionage and a 
cheery mood and you have a win...

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