On 16-1-2011 10:08, Warp wrote:
> Darren New<dne### [at] sanrrcom>  wrote:
>> Do you believe your government is working in the best interests of the
>> people of the country? If you answer, what country are you in?
>
>    It's rather obvious that the majority of elected representatives are
> not there exclusively to benefit themselves at the cost of their citizens
> because if that were the case, the country would have crumbled long ago.
> Keeping a country afloat economically, politically and socially requires
> that the people making decisions want to do that.
>
>    There are (still) many things here (and most other European countries)
> that directly benefit the citizens and are considered of upmost importance,
> such as free/inexpensive education for everybody (here including up to
> university level), free/inexpensive health care and so on. (And even more
> importantly, at least here in Finland, and probably at least in the other
> Nordic countries and probably in many other European countries, there is
> no difference between rich and poor in this respect. Rich and poor all go
> to the same schools, the same hospitals, and so on. Even the notion of a
> difference sounds very foreign.)
>
>    Of course this doesn't mean that there aren't individual politicians who
> think more about themselves than anybody else.
>
>    However, there are some other more worrying general trends among the
> governments of many European countries, including to some extent Finland's.
> The importance of some of the most fundamental tenets of society have been
> slowly devalued. Things like democracy and freedom of expression.
>
>    It may sound like nutjob political conspiracy theorist stuff, but it
> really isn't. It really has been happening. The importance of, for example,
> asking the citizens' opinion on certain things and voting for things has
> been noticeably reduced in the last 10 or 20 years. Less and less decisions
> are subject to public discussions, polls and votes, important decisions
> which affect the society as a whole. Even in Finland important laws are
> being passed by the parliament in a rush, without giving the public any
> time to voice their opinion on it. It's no coincidence that in many cases
> these are controversial laws which the politicians know people disagree with.
> (Good examples of this include the new draconian gun control law, the
> controversial new immigration law, the internet censorship law, and the
> new copyright law.)
>
>    I think this is a good example of a situation where the representatives
> are not even listening to the people they represent, even though that's
> kind of what they are for.
>
>    Another thing being devalued is freedom of speech. "Freedom of speech
> does not mean you can ..." has always been a guiding principle. However,
> if you compare how that sentence was typically completed 20 years ago and
> how it is typically completed today, you will notice that what is allowed
> today is significantly narrower than what was ok 20 years ago. More and
> more things are being added to the list of things not allowed by freedom
> of speech.
>
>    In many cases the law itself has not changed, only its *interpretation*.
> It's being applied more strictly today than 20 years ago, and the only
> guiding principle seems to be the political correctness trend. What is
> trendy today affects how judges interpret the same law.
>
>    It can be noticed that many politicians, and especially the media, hate
> freedom of speech (as ironic as that might sound). They hate it because
> it allows people to express the "wrong" opinions. No longer is the basis
> of a free society "I disagree with what you are saying, but I'll defend
> to death your right to say it". No. There is more and more demand today
> to forcibly shut up people with the "wrong" opinions. The value of people
> being able to freely disagree and express their disagreement is being lost.
>
>    The pressure on politicians to do something about this "problem" of
> people being allowed to express the "wrong" opinions is rather high, and
> more and more laws limiting freedom of speech are being passed.
>
>    There is also clearly a growing dislike of democracy for the same reason:
> Democracy allows citizens to vote for the "wrong" people, which is seen as
> a huge "problem" by many. It's to be seen where this sentiment will lead.

Funny, my impression is that there is continuously less restrictions on 
freedom of expression. Both legislative, the article on blasphemy is 
effectively a dead letter and it is under threat to be removed entirely, 
and in practice, people are ridiculing the Islamic god and its believers 
in the same way as they used to do with the Christian god and his'.

It might be that your perceived intolerance of opinions may partly be 
explained by the fact that such opinions were not as often expressed 
outside the pub 20 years ago.

(I know the situation is much more complicated than what you or I are 
expressing, and I know you know)

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