On 26-9-2009 1:57, Neeum Zawan wrote:
> On 09/25/09 13:55, andrel wrote:
>> On 25-9-2009 1:30, Neeum Zawan wrote:
>>> In many technical areas (except perhaps engineering), the US has been
>>> consistently behind those and other countries for most of the 20th
>>> century.
>>>
>>> Yet it doesn't hurt the country much.
>>
>>
>> That is because it is freeloading on other countries investments in
>> education. For technical areas they have to import most of the PhD
>> students from countries that still have an adequate education system. Or
>> they simply import them after graduation. Even the ones that are
>> homegrown are mainly from asian stock, from families that are not long
>> enough in the US to have abandoned the idea that you have to study to
>> get a good job. When they have been in the US for one or two generations
>> they have found out that in stead of doing something productive or
>> something that requires you to use your brain, it is easier to study law
>> or something similar. Then you don't have to worry about getting your
>> grade and you earn more than when working as a technician or craftsman.
>>
>> OK, I admit, that is somewhat of a generalization.
> 
>     Yes, but even if true, my point is still mildly valid. Having a top 
> education system need not be a priority, if you can convince smart 
> enough people to come here.

True, but not all donor countries might think that is a desirable 
situation.
Second, it works as long as the US is the most desirable country for a 
scientist to live in. When another country takes that position, the US 
has not enough trained people to fill the gap. There is a large 
probability that this will create a downward spiral.
To prevent that the US need a couple of big changes:
- reform the education system
- make sure that someone with knowledge or skills earns more than a 
lawyer (i.e. fix the juridical system)
- reform the health care system (I am not going to move to the US and 
this is a major reason. I am assuming it is for others as well and that 
that will increase with time, and that it may become a factor for people 
to actually leave the US)
- probably fixing the financial system might help too. The 'extravagant' 
lifestyle in the US has been sponsored by foreign countries. When they 
stop doing that the US may lack the money to buy the top-researchers 
from other countries.

>     It's likely a mix of both, and I'm inclined to lean more heavily 
> towards what I said: Have a significantly better average will get you 
> further. Also helps that the US has a lot of people, so even with a poor 
> education system the number of outliers will still be significant.

The really smart are education resistant, they will learn and understand 
in any educational model, but you need more than that 0.1% for a healthy 
economy. Besides, you want them in relevant positions. Not solely in the 
financial market and other places where they can make a lot of money for 
themselves without contributing anything to society.

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