On 24-8-2009 18:38, Darren New wrote:
> Warp wrote:
>>   Because "we will only put out fires for those who pay us" is extortion,
> 
> They're volunteers.  How is it any more extortion than "I will only 
> program computers for people who pay me"?
> 
>>   Also, people often die in fires. If someone dies in a fire they refused
>> to put out because they got no money from them, they let someone die on
>> purpose even though they could help.
> 
> Yes. I don't think they went that far, altho I do remember hearing a 
> story of them showing up at some rich cheap-bastard's house just to 
> watch it burn.
> The donation request was something like $10/year or so, so it wasn't 
> like a lot of money. But if you were too cheap even for that...

You probably have no idea how utterly absurd this kind of logic sounds 
to me (and probably most other Europeans).
One factor may be that we live in a situation where every fire may 
spread to a neighbouring house. Another is that a fire department is a 
community service. Paid by taxes, even the volunteers. It is extremely 
hard to imagine a situation where they are paid in such a perverse way. 
That simply does not fit with the image of a fire department.
It is just as inconceivable as a doctor refusing to treat a patient 
untill he pays money was a few years ago. Note that that is happening 
more and more here, mostly under influence of managers that were trained 
by or according to the ideology of selfish bastards from an unidentified 
country. Most doctors hate it but are forced to collaborate with the 
enemy because if they don't even more people will remain untreated.

FYI the rule here is more or less that if something can happen in a 
random way and the negative effect can exceed what you can afford, you 
have to insure that. Also if the damage to society is larger if you are 
not insured than if you are (typical example: health care. Somebody that 
looses a leg because he is not treated in time often costs more than 
someone who is treated. Both directly and indirectly because of the 
things he can not do anymore that benefit society) So if you own a house 
you have to insure that against fire damage. If you have work, you have 
to insure against loss of your job and against physical harm that may 
lead to loss of your job. Also everybody should have an insurance to 
damage inflicted on others Etc. In many cases you do not even have to 
take any action. Insurance is obligatory and handled via your employer 
who pays the bills before handing you your money. And that is probably 
just as alien to you as the inactive fireman is to me.

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