On 4-7-2009 9:47, Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>>
http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/09/26/five-atheist-logic-tests-and-how-to-pass-them-a-skeptical-response-to-how-to-make-an-atheist-backslide/
> 
>   Some atheists do this same thing in reverse: They try to smartly debunk
> christianity and the bible, and do so by abusing similar principles, ie.
> distorting what christianity and the bible say, making false presumptions
> and outright straw men, and then basing questions on those invalid premises,
> and so on.
> 
>   I especially like the video called "10 questions that every intelligent
> Christian must answer". 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ

> It's completely full of fallacious argumentation,

Why don't you point them out? I think it is horrible, very American, and 
assuming a type of religion that is not very common among European 
intellectuals, but that does not make the arguments false. In fact there 
is not much argumentation in this video, that is mostly left to the 
audience. Or is that what you are objection to? Anyway, I think that the 
banana proof and the elephants are in a whole different ball park.

> but cleverly laid out by the authors so that most fellow atheists will be
> mistaken into a false feeling that the video is actually proving some valid
> points. Even atheists succumb to confirmation bias: They are more likely to
> believe false statements when those statements confirm their own beliefs.
> In this regard many of them are not much better than religious people.

A couple of remark inspired by the video: The first few 'question' 
center around prayer. If you don't believe in prayer this will make no 
sense. I don't know how common it is for Americans to believe that 
prayer really helps, among the Christians that I know, it is AFAIK 
uncommon. (Though there was recently a book that claimed that you could 
get everything that you wanted if you visualized it every day and that 
was also popular here. Forgot the name.) Aside, some people say that 
praying to God to get (material) things is a sin against the second 
commandment, they might have a point.
Then follow a few things about selective usage of verses. Again if you 
don't claim that everything in the bible is the Truth that won't make 
any sense. It may come as a shock (at least it shocked me when I first 
noted it in real life) but there are people who seriously believe that. 
The remarks in this video are directed against those people. The bible 
is internally inconsistent, inconsistent with laws and constitutions of 
every western country, and inconsistent with science (though the 
examples may not be the most convincing). I think that if someone claims 
that every word in the bible is True, it is a reasonable to ask how that 
person handles all the inconsistencies. I also know that by definition 
no answer will ever satisfy the person asking.
Interesting thing is also that the examples are mainly from the 
old-testament and thus would be equally valid for jews and muslims. Yet 
the title only mentions Christians. Yet another example that the maker 
of this video is not able to abstract from his own cultural environment 
and attacking the world at large assuming everybody thinks like he 
assumes his neighbours think. All in all I think it is very shallow and 
hardly convincing. I don't think I would have listened to more than 30 
seconds of it if you would not have recommended it.

>   (Btw, that was not a statement about whether I believe God as taught by
> Christianity exists or not or whether the bible is the truth or not. It was
> a purely objective observation about the subject.)

sure

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