>> OK, so let's do something positive. What do *you* think has improved in
>> the last year then?
> 
> You are getting out more, spending time around people.  You've taken up 
> dancing classes.  You've started talking to people that are total 
> strangers.
> 
> This is not an exhaustive list, just the first few things that popped 
> into my head.

Well, at least the dance classes are going better than the drawing 
classes I did last year...

I wish I _was_ getting out more. I keep trying to make this happen, but 
it's nearly impossible to get it working. I mean, I can be "outside" 
easily enough. But finding people to hang out with is another matter 
entirely... (Hell, that's how this tread got here. By superhuman effort 
I managed to make contact with somebody, and it *still* didn't help.)

>> Hmm, let me see... Yeah, I guess I have only been doing this for 20
>> years now.
> 
> You've been playing and seriously studying music for 20 years?

I started learning to play the violin when I was 9, and I've been 
playing keyboard instruments ever since, so... yes.

>> Like I said, I've been playing various musical instruments for about 75%
>> of my entire life so far. It seems unlikely I'm ever going to get
>> significantly better now.
> 
> Nonsense.  World class musicians improve their technique every day.

I'm sure I'll continue to get better. I said I doubt I'm going to get 
*significantly* better. (As in, suddenly wake up tomorrow and be a 
virtuoso organist or something.)

>> Heh, well... at least somebody liked it.
> 
> Just because you don't get thousands of people saying "hey that's cool" 
> doesn't mean only one person liked it or nobody liked it.

That's what it feels like.

> I personally 
> don't do a good job of telling people they've done a good job at 
> something because it always sounds fake to me, even though I mean it 
> sincerely.

Mmm... yeah, I kinda know what you mean. "That was good" sounds kind of 
lame.

> If something makes me unhappy, I never stop trying to change my 
> circumstances.  If it takes me the rest of my life, I'll keep trying.

You're clearly a very much stronger person than I am.

During my life, I've learned that trying leads to failure, and not 
trying leads to failure, and basically *everything* leads to failure. It 
doesn't seem to matter what I do, I just fail all the time. Now, 
logically, I know that if I don't try I can't possible succeed... but 
it's still *seriously* hard to try things when your entire life 
experience tells you it's hopeless. (And there's nobody standing next to 
you to encourage you.)

> When it comes to looking for the perfect job, you should never stop 
> looking.

Makes sense...

>> Like I said, I asked about a position in *Strathclyde*. (I don't even
>> know where that is.) I was fully prepaired to head over there if they'd
>> actually be interested. But no... nothing ever came of it.
> 
> How many times did you contact them?

Only once. They're not deaf.

>> Yes. Because I don't *like* driving. This is something I want to *stop*
>> doing.
> 
> There are really two options:  Find something closer to home, or move 
> your home.  Don't limit yourself to the option of just finding work 
> nearer to home.  If there aren't jobs where you're looking, then option 2 
> has to be a consideration.

I happen to *like* living in MK. It's one of the few places I've seen 
that isn't old and run-down. And it has a sane road system.

(On the other hand, living somewhere else would make it slightly harder 
for my mum to annoy me... I guess that's a small advantage.)

>> Pretty much, yeah. Besides, I have even less idea how to find a flat
>> than I have finding a job. (I did look into this once... Clearly cheap
>> flats exist somewhere, but not where I looked.)
> 
> Well, not being an expert in how this is done in the UK, I'm probably not 
> the best person to advise.  However the words "To Let" seem to be very 
> popular on signs in some parts of your country that I've been in.  You 
> might try those or try a real estate agent - while they look to sell 
> properties, I imagine some know a few things about rental properties as 
> well.

I guess I'd have to investigate that one.

> Do you want the change?  If so, how badly do you want it?

Ah yes, the old "you can do anything if you really want to" mantra. 
Shame it's not actually true, but nice idea. (For a quick 
counter-example, try turning lead into gold. Good luck with that.)

>> Um... I don't know anybody?
> 
> You'd be surprised.  Go on, join up, send me an invite to connect 
> (hendersj at gmail dot com).  Instant network.  It's not the connections 
> one point away, it's the ones two and three points away that are the most 
> interesting.  You can get people to introduce you to those connections.

Tomorrow? It's kinda late now...

>>> Well, I know you don't do C++ programming, but I don't see why those
>>> other jobs wouldn't be suitable for you.
>> Um... because I've never worked in a professional capacity at
>> programming in my entire life?
> 
> Here's a news flash:  Everyone has been at this point in their 
> professional life.

Sure. So you start at the bottom and work up. There's absolutely no 
point in applying to hyper-senior positions when your CV doesn't back it up.

> Do you think the scientists you work with just woke up one morning with 
> the experience and knowledge that got them the jobs they work in?

No - they started at the bottom and worked up. That's what I need to do.

>> What I'm looking for is "trainee Java programmer" or similar - but those
>> jobs don't seem to be advertised anywhere.
> 
> Perhaps it's in the word selection - "trainee" maybe isn't a commonly 
> used term.  Permute the search terms.

I just searched for "programmer". Almost everything that came back was 
some sort of management position. :-/

>> Sure. I bet there are customers who have *reasonable expectations*.
>>
>> In some parallel dimension somewhere. Right next to the screwdriver
>> tree. :-P
> 
> I deal with customers every single day.  There are ones with reasonable 
> expectations, and there are unreasonable ones.

Well, it only takes one unreasonable customer to completely ruin your 
year, doesn't it.

>> Besides, even if it were possible for a customer to not be horrifyingly
>> abusive and unreasonable... I'm a computer programmer. I'm not a
>> salesman. I'm not customer relations officer. I'm not a management
>> consultant. AND I DON'T WANT TO BE. I just want to be left alone to
>> write computer programs. Is that so hard? You know, having a job that
>> utilises my actual skills rather than requiring a whole bunch of skills
>> I don't have?
> 
> 10 years ago, I wouldn't have thought I'd be in a customer facing 
> position.  I got into technology because I hated dealing with people.
> 
> It took nearly 20 years for me to get to the point of dealing with people 
> effectively.  And I've found that I'm actually pretty good at it - which 
> was a real shock and surprise.
> 
> Don't be afraid to try new things.  You might just find that you're good 
> at it and that you like it.  But you have to set aside your preconceived 
> notions.

Dealing with people (especially nontechnical people) is one of the 
things about my current job that I hate the most. They have no clue what 
they're talking about, no idea what they actually want, but they want it 
20 seconds ago, and if they don't get it, well that's just not good 
enough and I don't give a damn how difficult it is for you. I *own* you 
and you will do as you're told, bitch!

At least dealing with technical people, they know what they want you to 
do, and they know when you've done it.

> You are 
> correct that it's not exactly an employee-friendly market at this point 
> But that doesn't mean you can't get what you want, you just need 
> to negotiate from a starting point that's farther out than you might 
> otherwise - but not too far out for them to consider your offer.

I'm not sure I follow...

> Of course one of the best rules I've heard of negotiation is to not be 
> the first to put a number on the table.

Sort of like the theory that a truly great warrior always lets his 
opponent strike the first blow? Mmm, interesting...

>>> Well, there again, if you stop looking, you'll never find it, and this
>>> becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, doesn't it?  I suppose at least
>>> then you can say "hey, I was right, it doesn't exist".
>> I have been looking for quite some time though.
> 
> When did you last actively look?

If I remember rightly, sometime in the middle of April was the last time 
I contacted anyone about a serious job opportunity.

>> No, it generally means "we have no concept of what your job actually
>> involves. We therefore expect you to be able to perform miracles with no
>> support or resources, and we get cranky when you tell us that some vital
>> item *won't* be a 20-second job. And we won't even bother to thank you
>> when you do get something right." No thanks...
> 
> Again, your experience is based on one company.

I had *hoped* that only one company could be this broken. The Daily WTF 
seems to present conclusive proof that actually this kind of thing is 
ubiquitous in the IT industry.

> I am telling you that 
> while there are places like that, not all places are.

How do you find the non-WTF jobs though?! :-S

>> I think it's more that the entire Haskell mailing list regards me as a
>> troll. Presumably my reputation preceeds me.
> 
> Don't presume and don't assume.  You didn't answer my question, though - 
> did you send just one request and give up when you didn't get a response, 
> or did you follow up?

They send to email this address. I emailled the address. Nothing ever 
happened. The end.

>> Usually adverts don't state who the real employer is. (Because then you
>> could just phone them and the agency wouldn't get their cut of the
>> money.) So if you're going with that approach, it's basically down to
>> selecting companies at random and trying to contact them. 100% stress.
> 
> Then don't go through the agency.  Does your local paper carry classified 
> ads?

Yeah, sure - you can find no end of requests for lorry drivers and 
secretaries. (And for some reason Yamaha is *constantly* after piano 
tuners... You'd have thought that vacancy would be filled by now, right? 
But that ad has been appearing for *years* now...) Absolutely nothing 
related to IT.

(Similarly, all the agencies I went and spoke to, 80% of them said "oh 
no, we don't do IT any more".)

> I mentioned LinkedIn before - job postings are made there fairly 
> regularly as well, and you know who the company is.  Companies don't just 
> recruit through job agencies, they use multiple avenues.

Well, maybe.

>> I'm extremely bad at this sort of thing. Typically takes me 4 to 7 days
>> to work up the nerve to make one single phone call. I doubt being a
>> nervous wreck is the way to impress employers.
> 
> The more you do it, the more confident you'll become.

False.

I've done this many, many times now, and it never actually gets any 
easier. Sure, you know the person at the other end can't actually find 
out where you live, hunt you down and kill you. But they can shout at 
you, which is almost as bad...

> Hey, you gained 
> the confidence to contact a total stranger the other day, and like I said 
> earlier, that's progress.

That was more an act of extreme desperation than anything else, but sure.

>> See, now, much as I'd *like* to believe that I'm right and the entire
>> world is in fact wrong... seems a little delusional, doesn't it?
> 
> Not at all.  They don't know you as well as you know you.

I see...

> You're honest, hard working, intelligent, and like to learn 
> things.  Those are very important traits and if they can't see that, then 
> it's their loss.

Well, see, *I* think I'm honest and intelligent and so on. But when the 
entire world continues to completely disagree with you, it's really hard 
to keep telling yourself that it's true.

If I'm really such a great person, why doesn't anybody else think so?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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