>>>> As I say, most other people have folks around them to turn to for
>>>> support and encouragement. I don't really have that.
>>> You have that here.  Sure, it's not the same as having it in meatspace,
>>> but we actually do exist.
>> I sometimes start to wonder....
> 
> Because of course all the hours we spend writing to you don't mean 
> anything?  I've said it before, I don't talk to people I don't like.  
> From what I've read of yours, I like you.  Why do you find that so 
> difficult to believe?

I meant, sometimes when all you're doing is looking at text on a screen, 
it's difficult to believe that there's really a human being at the other 
end.

>>> Like I said, you're not constantly failing, you're taking small steps.
>> If I was taking small steps, I'd slowly be getting somewhere.
> 
> And you are.  That is something that is difficult to see from inside your 
> own head.  Trust me, from out here, what I've seen, you've made 
> significant progress in the last year.

You're right. From where I'm sitting, I can't see any progress of any kind.

I spent months learning Widor's Toccata. But every time I put some 
effort in, I could *see* some progress - and that was really motivating. 
But in almost every other sphere of my life, expending unbounded amounts 
of effort produces no discernable progress at all - and that is 
*extremely* demotivating. Why keep working your arse off if it's not 
doing any good?

>>> You go out and dance, don't you?  That's a social activity, and you
>>> sure don't sound like you're failing there.
>> As far as learning to actually dance... sure, I fail big-style. In terms
>> of getting along with people... that's a little more successful. But it
>> doesn't help that I don't really have anything remotely in common with
>> the people there to start with.
> 
> That's not really the point.  You get a chance to learn about 
> interactions with people in meatspace, and you enjoy it.  That's hardly a 
> failure.

I'd enjoy it a lot more if I could learn to actually dance... But hey, 
it's probably good exercise anyway. And sometimes I do enjoy it.

>>> You seem to enjoy your music immensely.  That sure doesn't sound like a
>>> failure to me.
>> Unfortunately that generally doesn't impress people very much. 
> 
> Who cares?  You enjoy it, you're impressed by it, that's the important 
> thing.  It's something that brings you happiness, so keep doing it.

It's something I keep doing because I keep hoping that one day it'll 
actually impress somebody. Unfortunately, I keep being disappointed.

>> Mmm... for whatever reason, they seem to be disinclined to speak to me
>> at the minute.
> 
> Have you contacted them, or have you been waiting for them to contact 
> you?

I've contacted them several times. Each time they have oh-so-politely 
turned me down. Maybe I'm paranoid, but there isn't a very positive vibe 
happening when I talk to them.

>> Just recently I haven't really done anything, due to an extreme lack of
>> motivation. 
> 
> Then one could arguably make the point that your current job doesn't 
> really suck that much.  Having a job that sucks is one of the biggest 
> motivating factors for people.

I would have thought having no job at all would be a far bigger 
motivating factor, but anyway... My current job does suck, but it just 
seems so hopeless trying to find anything better. It's as if this is all 
I'm worth. That I'm just *doomed* to rot here for the rest of my life, 
and there's nothing I can do about it.

If you think that sounds paranoid, consider this: Of all the job 
interviews I've ever been to in my entire life, only one has ever got me 
a job. And that's only because daddy put in a good word with the bosses. 
And they were absolutely desperate. (I don't know that they even 
interviewed anybody else.)

>> It's almost impossible to motivate yourself to do something
>> when failure is 100% guaranteed. 
> 
> It is if you don't get off your ass and do something about it, that's for 
> sure.

I spent months (and a lot of money, BTW) having my CV professionally 
reviewed, updating it, tweaking it, retouching it, and so forth. I 
wasted hours searching Monster and sending out applications. Heck, I 
even got my dad to drive me round the city center to find every 
employment agency in the place and give out copies of my CV.

You know where it got me? Nowhere. Hell, the last place I applied to, I 
spent hours carefully filling out their online application form, and 
they rejected me in less than 120 seconds. No *way* did a human being 
look at my application. Either there was never a vacancy in the first 
place, or it was rejected by a machine because some vital keyword was 
missing.

>> Nobody wants the skills I have.
> 
> Bullshit.  Just because you haven't found a company that's looking for 
> your skillset doesn't mean nobody is looking for your skills.

Sure. So somewhere on the face of God's Earth there might be a company 
that wants my skills. That doesn't help me unless I can find them, does 
it? (And they also need to be in the UK for that matter.)

> Everyone has a chance, but you have to TAKE IT and actually look, not 
> just give up.

I can't just keep working my butt off forever for no reward. It's so 
soul-destroying.

>> Seriously. I can spent 3 hours looking through thousands of unsuitable
>> job vacancies hoping to find one that I can actually apply to. 
> 
> Part of your problem is that you don't give yourself credit for what you 
> are capable of, so you assume you aren't qualified and you don't even try.

I don't think that's the main problem.

Problem number one is that most of the programming jobs I see have 
titles like "lead software architect" and "senior C++ developer" and 
"development team leader" and so forth. Obviously these are unsuitable.

Problem number two is that when you do finally find a possible Java job, 
the description says something like "you will drive half way across the 
country to the customer's site. The customer will demand that you 
produce an application that does X, Y and Z. The customer will then 
imprison you in a darkened room and you will not be allowed to leave 
until the application is finished and working to the customer's 
satisfaction." Obviously, I have *no intention* of ever doing this.

And of the remainder, almost unanimously they *demand* 3 years of 
commercial programming experience in C / C++ / Java / whatever. Many of 
them want details of what you've built, and include coding tests as part 
of the assessment. Now I could probably *learn* C++ well enough to be 
useful to somebody, but I'm not there yet. But hey, why hire somebody 
who *thinks* he could learn C++ when you can hire somebody who *can* do 
C++ right now?

I don't know where the hell all the graduate jobs are, but *I* can't 
find them...

It's as if the job I want doesn't actually exist or something.

> How do you know what you're capable of if you don't try to stretch a 
> little bit?  I'm not talking about jobs where they're looking for someone 
> with a PhD. in nuclear physics as a minimum requirement - that's one that 
> unless you have the degree, you don't meet the requirements for.  But 
> systems admin jobs, research jobs at uni - those are jobs you could do.  
> But you give up before you even apply, and you need to STOP doing that.

I want to get out of system administration. It's basically a job title 
that says "everybody hates you and thinks you're incompetant". Second 
only to "tax man".

The Haskell mailing list has had several offers of various work related 
to Haskell. Heck, just recently the University of Strathclyde wanted a 
Haskell bod. In each case, the message says "for more information, email 
XYZ". And each time I do that. And I never, ever receive a reply. Either 
I'm just that infamous or there's that many other people fighting for 
the spot.

Hell, I've even had a look at places like MSRC and the OU to see if it's 
feasible to do a PhD or something, but that turns out not to be possible 
either.

It's not like I haven't tried. It's not like I've just sat here and 
thought "ah well, there might be work involved, I can't be bothered". I 
just can't get traction!

>> I can
>> apply to three or four of them. And then I can sit there and wait until
>> I'm fairly sure a reply isn't coming. 
> 
> Or you could be persistent and call them.  Express extreme interest.  
> Your current job sucks rocks, right?  Then do everything you can to GET 
> OUT.

And how many job adverts give you a phone number?

They say "to apply to this job, click here". You click it. "Thank you 
for your application. We will get back to you shortly." Long silence ensues.

>> Or I can sit and do nothing for 3
>> hours. Both have the same result. Nobody except me will ever know the
>> difference. Motivation, much?
> 
> How badly do you want to get out of your current job and situation?  How 
> truly intolerable is it?

> Opportunities don't drop out of the sky, you've got 
> to put some effort into it.  And sometimes it takes more time than you 
> like, but if where you are is as awful as you describe, that alone should 
> be enough motivation to keep up the search.

I've put effort in. It didn't work. So then I put some more effort in. 
It *still* didn't work. And after that, I put even more effort in. Still 
didn't work.

I don't have boundless amounts of energy, drive, enthusiasm and 
motivation. I'm doing this all alone, all by myself, with absolutely 
nobody helping me. It's exhausting. It's demoralising. And behind it all 
is the knowledge that I'm probably not getting anywhere because, 
fundamentally, I'm just not good enough to cut it.

Sure, at some point I'll hopefully work up enough energy to give it 
another shot. But unless something radically changes, I don't imagine 
I'll have much success...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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