On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 21:57:28 +0000, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>>>> - If your car skids, turn into the direction of the skid.
>>>> Correct, but you have to be careful not to over-correct, lest you hit
>>>> a dry patch on the road and spin the car.  I did that and ended up in
>>>> the ditch, once - after doing a 360 in one direction and then a 720
>>>> in the opposite.
>>> Well, the incidents I whitnessed today all happened at around 5 MPH or
>>> less.
>> 
>> Yeah, it doesn't take much.  I spun out going onto a motorway, hit a
>> patch of black ice while accelerating, and then overcorrected.
> 
> I mean, I don't support you're that likely to spin the car when it's
> barely moving to start with. Just slide into the curb, really. (Or into
> some expensive car, at least...)

Depends on the ice.  I've seen cars spin out at low speed.  They spin 
slowly, but they can spin out.

>> Experience is a good teacher, but some things shouldn't need to be
>> experienced. ;-)
> 
> Like practicing how to repair a punctured lung using only a coat hanger?

Yeah, that's a good example. ;-)

>>> So not "OMG, I'm skidding, MAXIMUM BRAKES!!" then?
>> 
>> Exactly.  Yet a lot of people's instinct is to slam on the brakes. 
>> It's not always a conscious thing, though - and it's the sort of thing
>> you have to be aware of as it happens.
> 
> Yeah, well... some people don't seem to realise that this is even the
> wrong response.

That's because they don't think about it, they just react on instinct.  
Their instinct is "if I press the brakes hard, I will stop".  Add to that 
a lack of experience that is contrary to what their instincts say, and, 
well, there you go....

>>> We're talking about hilly country roads that go on for miles without
>>> any junctions.
>> 
>> Well, having driven on country roads such as you describe in England, I
>> observed that they rarely have long straight stretches; going fast on a
>> slippery winding road also doesn't help.
> 
> Well, it all depends.
> 
> In Switzerland, the mountain roads are under snow for half the year, and
> nobody seems to care much. OTOH... snowchains?

Snowchains can help, but only in the right circumstances.  Using them on 
dry pavement is really bad - for the tires, for the roads.....

But also, in places where snow is on the ground a lot, people have 
adapted to learn how to drive in the conditions.

>>> Jesus, people don't know how to drive in the snow... And this is...
>>> England?? O_O
>> 
>> Well, your weather tends to be pretty moderate; driving on snow and ice
>> is something that can improve with practice, but in England you don't
>> get a lot of practice.
> 
> I guess that's the thing. When I was a child, it used to snow *every
> year*. As in, the whole country would be under perhaps a foot or so of
> snow for at least a few weeks every single year. There was so much snow
> you could actually build a snowman.

See, a foot of snow isn't a lot compared to what I grew up in - we could 
tunnel under the snow and make forts.  Which of course these days is 
described as incredibly dangerous, and it probably was back then too, but 
we lived to tell the tale.

And the snow was persistent from when it started in early November 
through March.  Not just a couple of weeks a year, but for months on end.

> These days, some years there isn't even any frost, let alone *snow*!
> Every time I see a snowman, it looks very anemic - because nobody can
> find enough snow to do it properly! ;-)

:-)  Right now the landscape here in the state where the license plates 
declare "The Greatest Snow on Earth" is pretty anemic.  But the base in 
the mountains is 75-100".

> Which reminds me... the last time it really snowed properly, I was still
> at school. It was about, I don't know, 30 cm or so, varying from place
> to place. Anyway, being very bored schoolkids, somebody starting rolling
> snow, and... well I think we used the *entire* football pitch. Do you
> have any idea how much snow there is in an area that large??

A lot.  Cubing stuff (any stuff) tends to make the numbers big. :-)

> By the end of it, half the school was rolling this boulder of compacted
> ice along. We rolled it down the hill - Jesus, if anybody had been in
> the way, they would have been killed! - and we dumped it into the school
> pond. Man, it was like a nuke or something! One hell of a splash! ;-)
>
> It took about 4 weeks for that ball to melt completely...

That sounds like fun. :-)

Jim

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