Saul Luizaga wrote:
> This question denotes wisdom because you are willing to search and learn 
> contrary to Patrick that only writes "you are deluding yourself you are 
> being a moron, for your own sake STOP!!!".

Yes. That's why I said I'm an atheist, but not like Patrick. For one thing, 
I've accepted that irrationality is not always bad.

>> Do you think atheists are cold-hearted?
> 
> A little, just a little but I don't say ALL, maybe, just maybe most of 
> them, because I don't actually know the entire Earth population, so is 
> mostly kinda of a little pretentious assumption of me.

I think so. You seem to leap from "you don't believe in my god" to "you're 
cold and rational."  There's no basis for that belief except uninformed 
prejudice. I suspect confirmation bias in your observations of your atheist 
friends: that when they act cold and rational, you attribute it to their 
atheism, while when they act irrational, you attribute it to normal humanity.

Not unlike the way many people attribute personal failings to their own 
sinful nature and personal successes to God.

>> That they don't have feelings? 
> man, hehe, I don't know why you keep saying thighs like that of me.

I quote:
 > I think an Atheist maybe would be too rational for a situation like this 
[...]
 > being cold thinking and maybe endangering the child [...] the best
 > solution is go more with your feelings on that small time interval

I took that to mean you thought the atheist would be less willing to try to 
move the car via brute force. You say "they're too rational and cold 
thinking and more likely to endanger the child". How am I supposed to 
interpret that?

In any case, there's documented evidence of desperate people lifting cars 
off their children. There's no documented evidence of divine intervention 
lifting cars off of children. That means trying to lift your car yourself is 
*more* rational than praying to God for help.

>> That it's irrational to attempt to move the car without divine 
>> intervention?
> 
> is irrational anyway that is why faith helps and was more like lifting 
> the car in flames kinda thing, and every adult person knows the 
> consequences of such an act,

OK. It seems to me like you're making statements much more exagerated than 
you mean them to be. My personal suggestion is to phrase more of your 
comments as questions rather than statements.

Plus, I can *easily* imagine an atheist nerd trying to use The Force to lift 
the car. Completely irrational, and less likely to work than actually trying 
to lift the car with brute force.

> Not just pray to God,

Well, no. Pray to god to give you the strength, obviously. Because, you 
know, no proper religious person would think that God would manifest in ways 
that could really only be explained by supernatural intervention. Of course 
he won't lift the car *without* someone trying desperately to move it with 
brute force, any more than he'd actually cure a disease that non-believers 
get better from also.

> the Bible states if you have enough faith you could do wonderful thing,

Actually, it states that if you have even the tiniest spec of faith, you can 
move mountains. There really isn't a question of "how much faith is enough."

> I understand why Atheists probably will never see the way 
> religious/theists see things, faith in God is completely irrational 
> because God doesn't manifest in rational ways,

Sure he does. He stopped the sun in the sky for three days, he turned the 
Nile to blood, he flooded the entire world, bombed Sodom and Gomorrah, 
parted the Red Sea, raised the dead, cast the evil eye on a fig tree, ....

He just stopped doing that sort of thing when the camera was invented.

> Don't expect I say you: "OK, you say you are trying to understand me so 
> you want a rational proof of God, here it is, now belief". The way to 
> God is that, A WAY, A PATH to follow and on some point, He will come to 
> you. The Bible states that if you CHALLENGE God to come to you He will, 
> he has give you free will and wont disrupt the deal unless you want it so.

And I have. And he didn't. What do you say to that?  That I opened my heart 
to him in the wrong way?

> One more curious "fact": some people affirms seen San Martin praying in 
> the middle of the air,on his knees, because he was on sucha God's grace,

Yep. And some people think they're Napoleon too. Note that I'm not saying 
this in a belittling way, but for me to change my life based on "I once 
heard someone saw some guy floating in mid air" is a bit much, don't you think?

> so is not a proven fact but if you dare to take this as a fact for a 2 
> minutes you see there is no reason why he has to be "flying" to be in 
> God's grace but that's the way God works.

OK, let's even grant the possibility that he really was praying in the 
middle of the air. Let's even say he can do it on demand, and scientists 
can't explain it.

Why does that have anything to do with God?

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
   There aren't any trees on Mars.

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