On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 00:02:07 +0100, andrel wrote:

>> That said, I don't think it's reasonable to require, for example,
>> clergy, to marry people when that union goes against the religious
>> beliefs.
> 
> The main discussion in the Netherlands was if a civil servant has the
> same right to refuse.

I think that a civil servant would not/should not have the right to 
refuse.  If they take the job, they know what they may be asked to do.  
You can't take a job and then object to doing the job.

It's like people here in the US who decide to become pharmacists and then 
refuse to dispense medications because of their religious beliefs.  Too 
bad, they knew they might have to do that when they signed up to do the 
job.  If it's a legal prescription in the jurisdiction, they do not have 
the right to refuse service for any reason other than nonpayment.

>> But that gets really dicey too, but that does fall within the bounds of
>> the religious institution.  From a secular standpoint, if two people
>> want to get married, let them.
>> 
>> Let's do this:  Everyone's "marriage" in the eyes of the law is a
>> "civil union".  Those who want to be "married" can do so in the
>> religious institution of their choice.  And the rights that couple gets
>> to things like property, hospital visitation, next of kin status, etc -
>> ie, anything rooted in *law* - that's granted by the civil union. 
>> Anything granted in the "religious" realm (for example, the right to
>> claim a unity that lasts for all eternity into the afterlife, Mormon
>> "family sealings" adn the like) all fall in the realm of the religious
>> institution that performs the ceremony.
>> 
>> Problem solved.
> 
> Would your civil marriage also have to be acknowledged by other states
> and countries?

If I wanted rights in those other states and/or countries, yes.  My 
marriage is in fact a civil marriage (we did not have a religious 
ceremony), so it already is.

In the eyes of the Mormon church, my marriage isn't valid, because we're 
not Mormon, but I don't really care about my status in the Mormon 
church.  Similarly, I don't really care about my marriage's status in 
Outer Mongolia, but if I did care, then I'd do some research to find out 
what I had to do to make sure we got the rights and privileges that were 
important to us should we move there.

Jim

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