andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> On 23-Dec-08 19:27, stbenge wrote:
> > Darren New wrote:
> >> Shay wrote:
> >>> 1. The universe is made of particles which behave in predictable ways.
> >>
> >> Errr, no. The particles behave in ways that are only statistically 
> >> predictable.
> > 
> > Particles are individually unpredictable (to us) because we still do not 
> > have a complete understanding of physics. Very tiny particles may appear 
> > to do random things, but until we have determined the what the smallest 
> > particle is -- the true quanta -- we can't say for certain that truly 
> > random events actually happen. They look random to us because of our 
> > incomplete understanding.

> That looks suspiciously as if you believe in a hidden variable type 
> theory. I think it was proven that reality has no underlying hidden 
> variables. It is however some time ago that I did really study physics 
> and reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_paradox it is clear to me 
> that I need a refreshing course.

  If I'm not mistaken, the currently most accepted theory is that it's
*impossible* to predict certain quantum phenomena exactly. And this
"impossible" doesn't mean "we don't yet have the technology to do it",
but "there's a feature of the universe which simply makes it impossible".

  Theories can be wrong, of course (luminiferous aether anyone?), but
as long as we don't have evidence of the contrary, we have to assume that
that is how things work.

  As a side note, I find it amusing (and in some ways a bit sad) that some
people seem to think that physics is about belief. They will say something
like "I don't believe that black holes really exist", or "I can buy black
holes, but I don't believe in singularities", or "I don't believe that c
is the maximum achievable speed". And mind you, this by people who only
have rudimentary layman-level knowledge about physics.

  Physics is not about belief. Physics is not about people trying to
sell you ideas, and you believing them or not, depending on whether you
find those ideas plausible and logical or not.

  Perhaps a bit counter-intuitively, physics is not about the "truth".
Religions sell you the "truth", physics (and science in general) doesn't.
What physics is all about is determining how the Universe works by measuring
what can be observed and formulating scientifically sound postlates based
on those measurements. Physics doesn't try to "sell" you anything. Physics
simply tells you what we have found so far, with the technology and knowledge
we currently have. It's not a question of belief. It's about what we know
currently. (What we know may be partially false, but that's not really the
point. If it's false, then new evidence and new measurements will eventually
tell us so, so we can update what we know.)

  In other words, physics doesn't tell you "this is the truth". Physics
tells you "this is what we currently know". You not believing it has zero
effect on the fact for as long as you can't provide any evidence of the
contrary. (If you can, then usually expect a Nobel prize, or at least
worldwide recognition.)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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