On 23-Dec-08 18:30, Darren New wrote:
> somebody wrote:
>>> In other words, Germany as a societal whole had been moving towards the
>>> Holocaust for some time.
>>
>> You can say the same thing for positive changes as well. Society as a 
>> whole
>> has been moving towards democracy, freedom, equality... etc. In other 
>> words,
>> no individual had a significant positive effect on society by not being
>> censored.
> 
> Yes. If you're going to discount my Hitler example, I'll say "Ehn. 
> Martin Luther King wasn't any great deal. People were moving towards 
> equal rights even before him."

And that weasel of a Mandela, apartheid would have ended anyway. 
Probably with less blood shedding.

> Hitler was generally acknowledged to be a wonderful orator. (Actually, 
> our governor got in trouble once saying he admired Hitler's skills at 
> oration.) We might have had the holocaust, the war, etc, but I suspect 
> it would not have gone on as long or been quite so terrible had Hitler 
> not inspired the german people to keep it up for as long.

I read your 'Hitler' also as a sort of pars pro toto for the whole group 
around him including e.g. the propaganda group.

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