On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:55:03 -0800, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> I think it's largely a mindset - coming from a Windows background, one
>> typically is used to just being able to do things.
> 
> Yes. I was amused by one reviewer complaining he got a UAC prompt trying
> to change the time.
> 
> Maybe MS could put UAC prompts in appropriate to the version of the OS.
> Home users can change the time without a prompt, while enterprise
> versions need a prompt, for example.

That would probably make more sense.  Or make it configurable via a GPO 
but have the defaults be sane for the home user.

>> On *nix platforms with sudo, the mindset is a little different, but
>> also having the option to use NOPASSWD (which is ignored actually by
>> kdesu and gnomesu).
> 
> Yah. You can do this just by logging in as administrator, for example.
> Then you get no prompts at all.

On Vista?  I ran the home version here, and was logged in as 
administrator (hadn't created another user as of yet IIRC).  But maybe 
running the "Home" version was my problem. ;-)  Certainly, pre-SP1.

>> When I installed VNC on Vista, UAC prompted me *several* times during
>> the installation, and that was a pain.  With Linux, I get asked once
>> during a software installation.
> 
> Yeah, they could obviously clear this up. Maybe you would have had
> better results using "run as administrator" on the install script, as I
> expect VNC was installing (for example) both the client and the server,
> perhaps as launching separate executables.

Maybe, but it was packaged as a single MSI.

>>> Yep. To each his own. :-) I already had to reinstall OpenSuSE 11 twice
>>> due to it doing f'ed up things I couldn't figure out how to undo.
>>> Like, taking the "start button" off the "task bar", or screwing up the
>>> package management system so that attempts to update crash out.
>> 
>> KDE or GNOME?  I haven't had those issues as a GNOME user.
> 
> GNOME. I didn't have them in KDE SuSE 10, either.

Right click the panel and select "Add to panel" - then filter to 
"Menu".  :-)

> I think I'm just f'ing unlucky. I seem to run into every weird problem
> that no other Linux user ever has trouble with. Must be my morphogenic
> field or something.

LOL

>> I've not had that problem - using KDE or GNOME?
> 
> GNOME, this time. I'm just picking "yast" off the system menu and going
> to the "update" stuff.
> 
> It used to be YaST would say "Hey, there's three packages to install to
> update the installer. Click "OK" to install them, and I'll restart."
> 
> Now it tells you there's three you ought to install, so go scroll thru
> the list of 600 updates and find just those three, then click on each to
> make the "install" button appear, then click on the "Install" button,
> *then* accept it.
> 
> And don't just select all the packages and say "install", because then
> we'll warn you that we're about to break stuff, even if we really
> aren't.
> 
> I just think the UI went really downhill there, even if it makes more
> sense to someone more experienced.  Or maybe there's a better way to get
> to the same functionality now, or something.

You don't want to use YaST to do updates - I see what you're talking 
about, and yes, that is confusing.  I use the updater applet which is 
really clear.  The one thing I don't like, though, is that application 
upgrades aren't included in the updater - you have to install those 
separately for some reason.  I'm hoping they've addressed that in 11.1.

>> the updater works very well and makes a lot of sense
> 
> Except it locks the package manager for several minutes when I log in.
> (Probably less annoying than in SuSE 10, where it downloaded the package
> lists every time you logged in.)  Assuming you're talking about the
> automatic one that runs in the systray-equivalent.

It shouldn't take that long - they got rid of the old zmd stuff from 10.x 
(which was absolute garbage - they took Red Carpet from Ximian and ported 
it to run as a Mono app; thing is, Mono wasn't ready for prime time yet, 
and using your updater app to showcase a new technology is just mind-
bogglingly stupid IMNSHO) and replaced it with packagekit.  I've found 
that to be MUCH better.

> That's what I *thought* I was turning off when I confirmed ditching the
> "start menu" button, since it had crashed out repeatedly with bad
> package repositories or something. And just *try* to figure out how to
> get that button back when it's gone. ;-)  Since I had *just* made a full
> backup, it was easier to restore than to look up what I needed to know.

:-)

Jim

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