On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 14:14:08 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Well, it wasn't Iraq who attacked us on 9/11, was it?
> 
> No.

But taking troops into Iraq was seen as an invasion of holy lands.  So we 
repeat the cycle - they want us out, we become more entrenched in the 
region.  I don't see how that's supposed to break the cycle.  You can't 
*kill* an idea, but "we" (the US, or at least the administration) seems 
to think we can bomb the terrorists into submission.  That's a flawed 
premise.

I really want to get a copy of McClellan's book, it looks like a 
fascinating read.

>> I don't seem to recall that 9/11 was the first attempt to get us out of
>> their land.
> 
> Me neither.
> 
> Note that wasn't much of a value judgement. I'm not (at this moment)
> saying the US was right or wrong. I'm just saying that, historically
> speaking, the best way to reduce the US's military presence in your
> country has not been to start a war with the US. Gee, Bullwinkle, that
> trick *never* works.

The thing is, no trick ever works.  We won't leave until we're good and 
ready to go.  We seem to have this notion that we're "protecting our 
interests" (read:  guarding the oil) by doing that, so the logical 
conclusion is either to strike back or to destroy the oil fields.  Since 
the oil fields provide the basis for the economy in those countries, that 
ain't gonna happen.  But even then, that was tried by Iraq in the first 
gulf war (burning the oil fields in Kuwait).

They're not left with a lot of options.  If "suck it up and live with an 
occupying force" isn't acceptable, there ain't a lot else they can do 
other than retaliate in the only ways that we seem to understand.  Even 
if it gets them stomped into the ground.

> I'll grant you if you've run out of options and you think God is on your
> side, it might seem more reasonable.

Yep.  And that cuts both ways, obviously - Bush's initial blunder was 
calling this war a "crusade" (remember that?).  Because that word doesn't 
mean *anything* culturally or historically in the middle east.

They declared a holy war, and we responded with a term that inspires holy 
warriors.  Brilliant move on Bush's part.  And once that genie's out of 
the bottle, it is NEVER going back in.

>> "Imagine that you didn't believe in Christ" "But I do!"
>> "Yeah, but imagine if you didn't!"
>> "Why on earth would I do that?"
>> "To see a different point of view"
>> "But that point of view is WRONG"
>> "And you know that how?"
>> "Because it's not MY point of view"
>> etc.
> 
> Heh. BTDTGTTS.

It really is funny in a sad way, isn't it?

Jim

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