On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:10:46 -0600, . wrote:

> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote
>> On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:37:33 -0600, . wrote:
> 
>> > Fatal flaw with that argument is that if you go back 3-4 generations,
>> > *we* don't exist.
> 
>> What, you and me?  That's not a flaw in the argument at all - "we"
>> (meaning some people of our generation) seem to merely have forgotten
>> our roots
> 
> I honestly cannot *remember* my roots, nor can you. We were non-existant
> back then. Nor can we do anything about times past. My ancestors might
> have been kings or thiefs. Either way, I am not going to be proud or
> ashamed of them, or claim that ruling or stealing is the way to go -
> always. What we can only affect is now and here, based on realities of
> now and here.

Hmm, so we shouldn't remember any lessons from history because we don't 
remember it?  I wasn't around for WWII, so I shouldn't celebrate the 
victory of D-Day?  I wasn't around for the building of Stonehenge, so I 
shouldn't care if they decide to knock it down and make a new car park in 
the Salisbury plains?  After all, I don't remember it being built - it 
must not have happened.

Most people form their ideas of what's right and wrong from historical 
precedents.  You're saying we should abandon that, at least that's what 
it sounds like to me.

>> and that if restrictions on immigration that are being proposed were in
>> place, *we* might not ever have existed (ie, our ancestors might never
>> have immigrated to the US, met, etc).
> 
> That's absurd. We also might not have existed if, say, WWI did not take
> place, among other things. Should we continually create new world wars
> so people who would not otherwise exist, will exist?

I'm in the position of being the son of a WWII veteran who was ready to 
be deployed to Japan (dad served in Europe).  If the A-bomb hadn't been 
dropped, he would've been deployed there, and there's a fairly good 
chance he'd have been a casualty because of his rank and position in the 
army (a private).  So, if the bomb hadn't been dropped (twice) in Japan, 
I might not be here to be having this argument.  Does that mean that 
dropping the bomb was the right thing to do?  Of course not, but I can't 
help but be just a little conflicted about it.  In terms of the suffering 
it caused, no - it was the wrong thing to do.  But if it hadn't been 
done, who knows how many more would have died?

What you seem to be saying is that since we can't do anything about the 
past, we should just forget that it happened and not learn from it.  I 
don't have that luxury - and remember that those who fail to learn from 
history are doomed to repeat it.

Jim

Post a reply to this message