"andrel" <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:47C### [at] hotmailcom...
> somebody wrote:

> > Ethics is way overrated. Nobody would act ethically (not the least
because
> > there's no such thing as universal ethics) if it weren't enforced.

> If you think so, you have met only the wrong people. I know a lot of
> people that act ethically because they want to behave like that.

Did you investigate why? Simply saying they want to behave that way doesn't
explain why they want to behave that way, or why they are conditioned to
behave that way.

>I also
> know that us atheists and the christians, muslims, taoists, buddhists,
> etc. have slighly different ethics, but that does not mean that we don't
> agree on most things.

It's inevitable to agree on some things to be able to live together. There
has been enough disagreement, however, to cause many conflicts and wars.

> > Being caught (whether by the fellow humans or the invisible all-seer
>  > in the sky) is the only reason we act *ethically*.

> If you want to put it that way, you should add 'being caught by
> oneself'.

No, it goes back to outside influences. There's nothing inherently ethical
or unethical about, say, killing and eating pigs or dogs as opposed to
killing and eating cattle and deer, and if born to isolation and brought up
without outside conditioning, one would not necessarily prefer one or the
other on ethical grounds. After tasting the meat, one can prefer cattle meat
to dog meat, but that's not ethics but practicality.

> And even then, you miss an important aspect. Fear of getting
> caught is only a phase of it, later it becomes second nature.

That I agree on. I did use the word "habitual" in that context.

> For me it
> is out of the question to rob someone of even deliberately drive too
> fast, I am simply incapable of doing so. I even feel stressed and
> slightly physical unwell if my wife drives too fast or parks at a
> prohibited spot.

Prime example of conditioning and fear (not about the increased risk, the
increased risk between 55mph and 56mph is negligable, but fear from
authority).

> That said, I know that I live in a country where I can
> afford to live this way.

> > Of course getting caught death is

This should have read "... after death".

Anyway, the point is, for a rational person, there's nothing to be afraid of
after death, so ethics becomes irrelevant. Those who worry about the
environment 1000 years from now do so because they are afraid of the
repercussions they will from their fellow men *now*. An example where mob
mentality is at play - for none of the people alive will actually be able to
feel the effects in such a long term, but irrational behaviour can be
contagious and develop a momentum of its own (as demonstrated in many
studies involving variants of prisoner's dilemma).

> > highly irrational, but nobody said humans were rational to begin with.

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