On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 16:32:35 -0500, Sabrina Kilian wrote:

> The problem that I saw, first hand in the USA high school system, is
> that there is often no hope. I don't work in a school, so I can't
> observe how it's changed over time. But I did ask some others people for
> their memories of school. There have always been cliques, but it seems
> that kids have been getting more and more insular and stopped talking to
> people not in their group. Whether the 5 year olds playing team sports,
> or parents arranging strict play dates is to blame for this is another
> discussion.
> 
> So kids grow up with much less of a safety net, and very few people to
> talk to when things go wrong. Take a common occurrence, a fight within
> one of these small groups of kids. One kid singled out, where do they go
> and who can they turn to?

Well, from my own experience (I was a loner/nerd/geek all through school 
through the 70s and 80s), school counseling can help.  When I was in 3rd 
or 4th grade, I used to meet with a school counselor once or twice a 
week.  We'd talk, play cards, whatever - it was a chance at interaction 
that I wasn't getting from my peers.

Now while I am arguing one on one side that school shootings/violence 
isn't anything new, the frequency can be somewhat alarming - but things 
like kids getting together and arranging to meet out in the playground 
after school for a fistfight is something I remember from my early 
elementary school days in the late 70's.

> IMO, the problem isn't the guns or these kids either killing themselves
> or killing others before they kill them self. It's that these situations
> occur in the first place.

Well, part of the problem is that they've managed to get their hands on 
the weapons - and that's down to poor parental supervision in many cases 
of modern school violence.  That certainly can be demonstrated to be the 
case in the Columbine event - the parents appeared to be totally clueless 
that their kids were out in the garage making pipe bombs.

>> As for depression and drugs; it would probably be better (IMO) if drugs
>> were used as a last resort if at all. But then you would have to put
>> more effort into helping people which would not be as profitable to the
>> established money makers.
> 
> You haven't seen what counselors charge by the hour, have you? The drugs
> are common because they are the cheap answer, cheap enough to be
> available to the people who really should be getting counseling but
> can't afford it.

Well, my own experience with the school counselor back in elementary 
school was that the school provided him for that service.  Maybe schools 
don't do that any more, though - I don't know.

> Or worse, is convinced that anyone who gets counseling is already too
> far gone to be helped.

I'm sure that happens too.

>> "Drugs" are both fashionable and a dirty word. The easy way out until
>> you have to pay the final price and it looks like judgement day is
>> getting closer. If it is of any interest to anyone other than myself. I
>> have turned down two job opportunities to work across the pond because
>> I don't want to put myself through the hassle of living the life I see
>> over there. Now this is not to say that I haven't met many fine people
>> from the land of the free, I have. Some of them here on this newsgroup,
>> a lot at work, some as visitors to my country etc. but it seems like a
>> society that is best experienced from a distance.

Not really - for the most part, it's pretty sane over here, Stephen - 
there are, of course, places you probably should avoid and crime does 
happen (hell, I witnessed a fistfight last night between a couple of 
grown adults outside our gym - and I was on the phone to the police not 
long after it broke out).  But that's not the norm.  It just seems like 
it because the news over here is nearly always a body count - 
sensationalism sells news - and on TV and in the papers, that sells 
advertising.

There's a reason I avoid most news outlets these days.  I keep up on 
things in other ways - mostly using the 'net.

> Eh, it's quite fun here on a day to day basis. Lots of us don't even own
> guns, we have pets we care about, and we don't eat babies. Often.

:-)  3 cats, no guns, and no babies to eat (our kid's 20 now).

> Besides that, I think there is still some hope. The violence is a
> symptom, not the problem that needs to be solved.

Well said.

Jim

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