Disclaimer: I do 99% of my work directly in Pov SDL, and I like it that 
way. However, you force me to play the devil's advocate. :-)

gregjohn wrote:
> Q: What do you call creation of mathematical constructs that can then be imaged
> in a raytracer?

"Coding" or "scripting".

> There are some scenarios where povray's modeler could be
> interesting, if not more efficient, than in a GUI system. For one, you don't
> need a good graphics card: blender, on the other hand, won't work with some
> live Linux distros because the distro doesn't come with graphics drivers.

In all fairness, you can get quite a bit done in Blender without 
hardware acceleration if you edit with only the mesh outlines turned on.

> For
> another, you don't need gobs and gobs of memory:  I opened an "Elephant's Dream"
> scene in blender on a 2.0 Gb memory Linux PC and the system slowed to a halt.

And I have seen recursive Povray scenes do the same. :-)

> To say, "Povray is a renderer, not a modeler," inherently limits the imagination
> of the users and the number of new users who will want to come to it.

The issue is not that you can't build scenes with Pov SDL--you can.

The issue is that the word "modeler" usually refers specifically to a 
graphical user interface where shapes can be manipulated in real-time in 
a point-and-click manner. The term implies a certain workflow similar to 
physically modelling an object in, say, clay. If you tell a bunch of 
"mainstream" 3D artists that Povray is a 3D modeller, they will be 
*very* disappointed when they actually see the software.

I might also point out that many Povray users, Linux/Unix-heads in 
particular, do their SDL coding in an external editor. Povray itself 
simply parses that code and renders it.

> I know
> that when I thought it was merely for ekeing out some more exhaustive
> photorealism from models created in $$-ware, I wasn't interested.   The
> oft-repeated statement is also flatly untrue.

If it makes you feel better to say that Povray is a modeler, but not a 
*GUI* modeler, then fine.

I'm not trying to argue against what seems to be your real claim--that 
Povray is useful for creating art without additional third-party 
applications. I'm trying to stop you from being counterproductive. :-)

I've already had similar experiences trying to move people from Windows 
to Linux: You make claims about the software you are trying to "sell" 
that are strictly true, but said claims are misinterpreted, and you wind 
up causing someone to hate the software you are trying to promote ("It 
doesn't work the way he #$%@! said it would!") and possibly even to hate 
*you* for being a "zealot".

Building an image using SDL is a *very* different process from 
interactive modelling, and you need to get that difference across to 
people. You need to communicated the upsides, or they won't be 
interested enough to try it in the first place, and you need to 
communicate the downsides, or they will be disappointed--and they may 
not give you a second chance.

-- 
William Tracy
afi### [at] gmailcom -- wtr### [at] calpolyedu

These may involve hunting down whoever added whichever thing it is and 
torturing information out of them.
     -- from the GCC Documentation Project's web page

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