On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 11:09:31 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 6 Feb 2008 17:43:12 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>  
>>> That is dispiriting.
>>
>>What, that people have to evolve their skills?  That's the way the world
>>is (at least in the so-called "western world") these days.  Adapt or
>>die....It sounds harsh, but it's reality.
>>
> No I meant that you feel that it is the people that learn how to follow
> instructions as apposed to people who learn how to build something that
> will be successful. That is dispiriting.

Oh, I see what you mean.  You have to understand, though, that I worked 
in a factory while in college assembling paint sprayers; there were those 
who were content to just follow a set of instructions from 7-4 every day, 
and then leave the factory and live their lives; work was a means to a 
living, rather than being their life.  There's a certain appeal to that.

The danger with just going in and doing a job like that is that you can 
be laid off, and if your skills are specialized (in that you do one set 
of things day in and day out for, say, 15 years), that makes things 
difficult when you try to find something else to do.

>>I'm happy to talk either politics or religion.  Maybe that's why I don't
>>have a lot of friends. ;-)
> 
> Maybe you weren't brought up in a region that was renowned for violence
> and religious bigotry. I was and it is taboo for a very good reason IMO.
> Although I understand others feel differently.:)

I was raised Lutheran; make of that what you will. :-)  I'm *mostly* non-
religious these days, truth be told.

>>I'm having a great debate right now with someone about the relative
>>merits of calling Wicca a religion (he doesn't believe it is, and he's
>>wrong <g>)
> 
> It is not surprising to me that the "Old Religion" is not considered a
> religion by some.

Same here.  Though arguably, Wicca itself is relatively new (founded in 
the '50s), but based on far older traditions.

> and the US armed forces holding weekly services for those who

Who.....?  I think you forgot to finish a sentence here. <g>

>>Add to that his statement that belief that science can eventually
>>explain everything is irrational (but belief in an invisible guy in the
>>sky who controls everything isn't?), and you've got a conversation
>>that's ripe for lots of fun shouting. :-)  Needless to say, *I've* been
>>having fun with it.
> 
> Ah! Well. Each to their own and rib him mercilessly :)

You'd better believe it.  He's now taking to schoolyard tactics and 
really making himself look foolish in the process.

>>Yeah, I understand that you guys are catching the sub-prime mortgage
>>wave that hit us the end of last year.  Don't get bitten.
> 
> Too late [quote http://www.creditaction.org.uk/debt-statistics.html ]
> Average household debt in the UK is ~ £8,985 (excluding mortgages). This
> figure increases to £20,895 if the average is based on the number of
> households who actually have some form of unsecured loan.

Wow, that's really something.  I think we're in (outside of our primary 
mortgage - we have an equity line as well) about $70K, but *most* of that 
is secured debt.  Only about $15K is unsecured credit card debt, and the 
majority of that will be paid off in the next 90 days (tax refund).

>>I also understand
> 
>> :  What's the
>>world coming to?
> 
> It looks like its going to Hades in a wheelbarrow. :) But then I've been
> hearing that all my life. If you extrapolate that back there must have
> been a Golden Age :-)

LOL; why did I just think of "The Pirate Planet"?

>>Yep.  I have to admit that I'm concerned about my retirement fund;
> 
> I've decided to work until I die. :)
> But then I like my work. Thinking about it I just like working :)

Same here; though oddly I'm here instead of doing the stuff I need to 
just at the moment. :-)

>> I was
>>stupid when I was in my early 20s and closed my 401(k) account so I
>>could make a down payment on a house.  That money would, in the long
>>run, been much better left invested where it was.  I may have another
>>30-35 years of working time left before I retire, but the operation of
>>compound interest would've served me well with the money I put in when I
>>was 19-22.
> 
> If only we could see into the future but don't get me started on
> religion :)

LOL, yes, that's certainly true.  Hindsight really is 20/20.

>>It can be a bit depressing at times.  That said, I love the job, though,
>>and right now couldn't see myself doing anything else.  I've always been
>>a bit mercenary when it comes to employment (though there are things I
>>*won't* do), and for the first time in my career, I'm in a place where,
>>if something "better" came along I probably wouldn't take it.  I would
>>look at it, but IME "better" is always a case of appearances, and things
>>are pretty good where I am.  I made a jump once before for "better" and
>>it was (work-wise) a very bad call.  Life-wise, it worked out very well
>>(I met my wife because I moved for the job), but I was miserable for
>>about 2 years, and unemployed for 6 months of that.
>>
>>
> I'm glad you found something you like and I hope that it lasts for as
> long as you want it to.

Same here.  My dad and I had a chat not long before he passed away a 
couple years ago; he confided in me that if he had it to do again, he 
would have been less loyal to his employer (not to say "disloyal" by any 
means - he certainly was honourable and would have been regardless) 
because it's not a reciprocated loyalty.  He worked for the same company 
for decades only to have them pull the rug out from under the retirees.  
Fortunately, dad kept *everything* about post-retirement benefits, so 
they did get a payout in the end, but not without a big legal battle.

> And as my old granny used to say. "What's for you, won't go past you."

Your granny sounds like a wise woman.

>> Current job sent me to
>>Barcelona a few years ago (and actually, it was before I was in this job
>>- I was doing some of the job prior to moving back into the department),
>>and this year is looking like I'll get to at least go to Europe
>>(probably Germany) and Australia, possibly also New Zealand and Japan
>>(the latter will be on my own dime to visit my brother - I figure if I'm
>>"in the neighborhood" I should go visit him in Osaka).
> 
> The brotherly thing to do, IMO. :)
> Keep us posted it sounds like it could be Pov-Con on a world tour. :)

I will - it's always fun to meet online friends IRL.  Most of my longtime 
online friends are here next month, and I have a get-together at my place 
for them.  Wouldn't have it any other way. :-)

>>I really enjoy travel - the actual "getting there" bit isn't a lot of
>>fun, but once I'm there, I like to get out and see things.
>>
> In a nutshell! But my wife actually likes the travel part. (Weird :)

Well, just remember, we're all unique, just like everyone else. ;-)

Jim

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