On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 22:28:30 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 6 Feb 2008 17:02:53 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
>>Those who tend to be successful, I think, tend to be people who instead
>>of learning "how to build a paint sprayer", but rather how to follow
>>instructions on how to build something.
> 
> That is dispiriting.

What, that people have to evolve their skills?  That's the way the world 
is (at least in the so-called "western world") these days.  Adapt or 
die....It sounds harsh, but it's reality.

>>From there, one possible career path is process optimization, which can
>>open a bunch of other doors as well.
>>
>>> That's the problem or at least one of them. Not everyone has the
>>> opportunity to re-skill and move up.
>>
>>At least in my experience, the opportunities are there, but the
>>motivation often isn't.  Of course, it's not 100% who have the
>>opportunities (or don't have the motivation).
> 
> I saw it differently here when Mrs T started to go the way she did. (I
> won't go into that. It is an old story and you shouldn't talk politics
> or religion if you want to keep friends. Oh what the Hell I can't keep
> my mouth shut :)

I'm happy to talk either politics or religion.  Maybe that's why I don't 
have a lot of friends. ;-)

I'm having a great debate right now with someone about the relative 
merits of calling Wicca a religion (he doesn't believe it is, and he's 
wrong <g>) and the US armed forces holding weekly services for those who 
are observant of that particular faith.  Of course, his definition for 
"religion" is pretty narrow - you have to believe in a monotheistic god, 
which generally narrows the field to Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.  
By his definition, Buddhism and Hinduism don't (and shouldn't) qualify.

Add to that his statement that belief that science can eventually explain 
everything is irrational (but belief in an invisible guy in the sky who 
controls everything isn't?), and you've got a conversation that's ripe 
for lots of fun shouting. :-)  Needless to say, *I've* been having fun 
with it.

>>A big problem also has to
>>do with people living beyond their means; when you do that, you can't
>>take a lower paying job while you are re-skilling.
> 
> How very true. Debt is a major problem here in the UK.

Yeah, I understand that you guys are catching the sub-prime mortgage wave 
that hit us the end of last year.  Don't get bitten.  I also understand 
that there's been an interesting development in a bank bought by Citi 
over there - that they're terminating accounts for people with *good* 
credit because they're not making any money on interest.  Terminating 
accounts for people who pay their cards off every month:  What's the 
world coming to?

>>When I moved into instruction, I took about a 7% pay cut (in base
>>salary), and it was a struggle for a while.  After 5 years, I'm back
>>where I was when I left the previous employer; but I'm also described as
>>"unamerican" by some because I don't carry a lot of debt load and
>>generally we only buy what we can afford right now (excepting big-ticket
>>items like cars, houses, and that sort of thing).  Credit management is
>>a skill that it seems a lot of younger people don't have these days -
>>even in my generation, debt loads tend to be higher than our parents'
>>were, and we learned about credit management later in life than we
>>really should have.
>>
> It may be what brings gown the house of cards :(

Yep.  I have to admit that I'm concerned about my retirement fund; I was 
stupid when I was in my early 20s and closed my 401(k) account so I could 
make a down payment on a house.  That money would, in the long run, been 
much better left invested where it was.  I may have another 30-35 years 
of working time left before I retire, but the operation of compound 
interest would've served me well with the money I put in when I was 19-22.

>>> I'm on career #4; worked in
>>> factories, became a service engineer, worked offshore, now in SAP. But
>>> then I'm a chancer
>>
>>Same here.  The director I worked for 6 years ago (when I left to come
>>to Novell) said that he wished he had the guts to make a drastic change
>>like I did.  I think he was also commenting on my choice of employer as
>>well; Novell has long been known as a company that you're likely to get
>>laid off from.  I've survived 3 or 4 RIFs in 5 years, the first one a
>>month after I started.
>>
>>
> Welcome to our caring company. I won't introduce you to those people
> they won't be here long. :)
> Yeuch!

It can be a bit depressing at times.  That said, I love the job, though, 
and right now couldn't see myself doing anything else.  I've always been 
a bit mercenary when it comes to employment (though there are things I 
*won't* do), and for the first time in my career, I'm in a place where, 
if something "better" came along I probably wouldn't take it.  I would 
look at it, but IME "better" is always a case of appearances, and things 
are pretty good where I am.  I made a jump once before for "better" and 
it was (work-wise) a very bad call.  Life-wise, it worked out very well 
(I met my wife because I moved for the job), but I was miserable for 
about 2 years, and unemployed for 6 months of that.

>>> I can't believe I've had three interviews this week for jobs that
>>> would take me completely round the world. And one later in the week to
>>> work in Malaysia. That is a far cry from my father who only went
>>> abroad in the war.
>>
>>Wow, that's impressive.  :-)
>>
> Thanks I think so too that's why I'm bragging. :) Even if I don't get
> any of them I'm pleased that I was considered.

That's always a good ego-boost, isn't it?  Current job sent me to 
Barcelona a few years ago (and actually, it was before I was in this job 
- I was doing some of the job prior to moving back into the department), 
and this year is looking like I'll get to at least go to Europe (probably 
Germany) and Australia, possibly also New Zealand and Japan (the latter 
will be on my own dime to visit my brother - I figure if I'm "in the 
neighborhood" I should go visit him in Osaka).

I really enjoy travel - the actual "getting there" bit isn't a lot of 
fun, but once I'm there, I like to get out and see things.

Jim

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