Grassblade wrote:
>>> Christianism is based on a dogma: God exists.
>> Well, yeah. And logically, from one flawed premise, you can get all
>> *kinds* of results that aren't isomorphic to reality in any way.
> True. But there is just that little problem of proving that the premise is
> flawed. ;-)

No. That's up to you, because there's no evidence beyond a book rife 
with untruths. (You may call them allegories if you like.) I no more 
need to disprove the existence of God than to disprove the existence of 
unicorns and fairies and pots of gold at the base of the rainbow.

In any case, as I've said, not all else falls out just "God exists". 
Certainly *Christianity* doesn't fall out of "God exists" any more than 
the whole Norse pantheon falls out of "God exists."

>> I can base my navigation on a dogma that the earth is flat. Doesn't mean
>> I'll get to where I'm going, even tho the greeks worked out all the
>> rules for figuring that out were it so.
>>
>>> All the rest is logically gleaned from the Bible.
>> In my experience, if logic conflicts with the statements in the Bible,
>> the logic goes out the window.
> That's because you talk to cracknuts.

Cracknuts like priests from a family who has been priests for years? 
Yah, I suppose that would be cracknuts to some atheists.

> And some atheists are just as rabid and nuts. 

Mostly those who are either attacked by religious people or who can't 
deal with the idea that irrationality isn't always bad.

> I'd like to have an example of a logical conflict, though.

You'll wave it off. Different premises lead to different conclusions.

>> No, that isn't what makes religion illogical. That religion is based on
>> unsupported axioms just makes its logical conclusions useless.
> As opposed to mathematical axioms?

Some mathematical axioms lead to useless conclusions. Such as "Axiom 
One: the older speaker is always correct in matters of fact when in 
conflict with a younger speaker." You can build an entire world view on 
that. It won't match reality, but you can do it.

"Dogma: We're all living inside a hollow earth."  You can build a whole 
world-view on that.

> Good question. I guess I was born in it. Miracles certainly play a part.

Fair enough.

> Heisenberg uncertainty principle also, since it seems to imply that Something
> outside Big Bang could know position and angular momentum at the same time, but
> anything inside can't.

Maybe. But what does "outside" and "know" mean, then? FWIW, I have no 
problem with "there's something outside the universe that can't interact 
with anything inside the universe."  I have no argument with 
supernatural that *stays* supernatural. I just don't see any point in 
considering its existence.

> But most of all, I like the figure of Jesus. Definitely a very fine knower of
> men.

As were many religious leaders, as well as many non-religious leaders. :-)

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     It's not feature creep if you put it
     at the end and adjust the release date.

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