scott wrote:
>>> How are they meant to catch people downloading illegal material without
>>> spying on you?  Don't ISPs already report suspected illegal activity to
>>> the police?
>>
>> There is a difference between the ISP scanning their own traffic logs in
>> accordance with their own terms of service, and the police requiring
>> that the ISP scan, log, and report everything directly to them.
> 
> Can't the police demand info from ISPs if they suspect some customers
> (or users of a website they host) to be acting illegally?  I'm not an
> expert at the law in this area, but it seems like common sense says the
> police should (and do) get this information if they need it to help
> convince someone of a crime.
> 
> 

In the USA, no, they can not just demand the information. They can ask
the ISP any way they want, but without a warrant, the ISP is not
required to turn over anything. Without a warrant* a cop asking for
something is doing just that, asking. The requirements to get a warrant
is 'probable cause', which is another loaded term because it has a
pretty strict legal meaning. Basically, the cop would have to show a
judge that there was already some evidence that someone committed a
crime before they could get a search warrant to invade that person's
privacy. Getting a search warrant for an ISPs logs would involve showing
some evidence that someone using the ISP did something illegal, and
would probably need to be more specific like what person committed what
possible crime over what time frame.

The trick, though, is that the ISP really had no reason not to turn over
your information. Because they own the data, and the terms of service
usually allow them to, they can turn over the information to the police
with out your consent. But they are not required to. If the police
asked, on a daily basis, for all information regarding all customers,
how long would it take for the ISP to just start ignoring them until the
police brought a warrant? An ISP might even require a warrant before any
information is handed over.

*Not counting such nice modern laws like the Patriot Act and the option
to get a warrant after the search using the stuff obtained in the search
as justification.

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