On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 23:58:53 -0400, Jim Charter wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
> 
>> Cool, it's amazing the skills and things people who I meet online have
>> or do. :-)  What sort of defensive driving techniques are employed by
>> hacks in NYC?
> 
> Again, I teach here:
> http://www.lagcc.cuny.edu/taxi/
> Andrew Vollo is my 'boss'
> 
> We teach the Defensive Driving, techically PIRP (Point and Insurance
> Reduction Program) under the sponsorship of: http://www.ntsi.com/
> 
> It is the same course that anyone might take to reduce points on their
> license.  It is just that it is a TLC requirement that drivers (meaning
> taxi drivers) take this or similar course every three years as a
> compliance requirement for their hack license. (hack licenses are
> renewed eery two years) In addition the course is prerequisite to
> applying for a hack license in the first place.  So my students tend to
> be people fulfilling TLC requirements.

Makes sense.  I'll have a look over these sites later (got a meeting to 
run to in 10 minutes).

> I've always found that sort of thing interesting (my dad taught
>> me to drive in MN, and he was always teaching me defensive techniques).
> 
> The course focuses primarily on mental attitude and less on hard
> techniques.  I give a lot of emphasis to road rage and less emphasis on
> alcohol.  Many of the drivers are muslim.

That adaptation makes a lot of sense; I had wondered, because the 
portrayal of cab drivers on shows like Law and Order seems to tend 
heavily towards Middle-Eastern descent.  Not always, of course, but my 
wife and I watch several programs and note the diversity (or lack 
thereof) based on where the program is *supposed* to be based.  Not 
really a conscious thing for either of us, but her friends have commented 
on it in the past and raised her awareness as a result.


>> I understand there's a fairly common courtesy amongst cabbies in NYC
> 
> Not sure what you mean here but the usual take is that NY cabs have a
> fairly bad reputation.  This is not entirely deserved.  Drivers will
> show each other small courtesies on occasion.  For instance a car
> running 'heavy' meaning he has a fare, might block traffic to help an
> empty car get across to a hail.  But two cars competing for a fare can
> get ugly.

I could see competition getting ugly - and I *think* I might've seen that 
once, in fact; but what I was thinking of was the heavy car helping one 
get a fare or stuff like that - making way for another driver who's 
stuck, creating openings in the traffic, that sort of thing.

>> (well, everywhere, really, but NYC cabbies are IMHO the best around;
>> the ones in San Francisco that I've had didn't even know how to get to
>> where they were driving me;
> 
> I needed to hear that, we really do take a lot of abuse.

Lots of stressed-out people in NYC, I've observed.  But I've always 
appreciated the cabs I've ridden in there.  It's easy to walk a few 
blocks, but there just are times (obviously) where walking isn't 
practical.  And it's not like finding a cab downtown is difficult, either 
- there are an awful lot of them. :-)

> the one I had in Atlanta took advantage of my rush
>> to the airport and gave himself a 100% tip for the ride - I hated
>> having to pay with a credit card).
>> 
>> In fact, the only other place I've ridden in a cab that I would compare
>> to NYC is in the UK (down near Hastings - haven't done a London cab
>> ride yet),
> 
> London and Tokyo cabs are the ones that people cite as superior

The interesting thing is that some London cab drivers underwent some sort 
of intelligence testing, and it was discovered that the requirements 
there to actually *know* how to get places (the test there includes a 
mapping test - shortest route between points A and B - without a map IIRC 
- that sort of thing) really help with other mental capabilities.  I 
don't know if NYC has anything like that on their exam, but I know San 
Francisco doesn't (as per my example of the driver asking *me* how to get 
to my hotel - "which turn do I take again?")

> and I know the cabs there have a steering system that turns both
>> the front and the back wheels (I forget what it's called now - my wife
>> says it's called a "independent double wishbone suspension", capable of
>> doing a U-turn in 25 feet, mandated by the public carriage office) so
>> the cabs are REALLY maneuverable.  Anything like that employed on the
>> cabs there?  (I've not noticed it, but it's kinda hard while in the cab
>> to see what the wheels are doing, obviously)
> 
> Nope.  Innovations here are in the direction of hybrid 'green' models
> and wheelchair access.

That's cool, I thought I'd heard something about hybrid technology being 
introduced in the yellows there.  I guess U-turns aren't particularly 
important in NYC since most of the streets (at least near Times Square, 
where our office is there) are one way, at least for part of the day 
(which makes sense to me but seems like it could be very confusing as 
well)

>> I thought that was probably the case; they show what looks like his
>> license at the beginning of the show, but I keep forgetting to pause
>> and have a closer look to see how real it looks.  Usually there are
>> things that make it clear it's not real, since he's actually driving
>> around Broadway.  The cab itself is indistinguishable to my eye from
>> any of the other yellow minivan cabs there.
> 
> It looks pretty straight up to me.  People seem genuinely surprised.  I
> guess the camera work must be craftily hidden.  The routes are all the
> sort of thing I do routinely 'night in and night out'  The shots of the
> passing stuff is exactly what I am immersed in all night.

I've noticed that the few times he's been caught out, it's because either 
they noticed the number on the outside (1G12, IIRC) or it was someone 
getting into the back seat who spotted the camera in the back.  
Apparently the luggage space is full of recording equipment and one 
camera sticks up over the back of the seat.  They seem to have done a 
good job of hiding the cameras overall, not to mention the extra 
cameramen who shoot from the street (which I still haven't figured out 
where they ride or how they follow)

>> Interesting, didn't know that.  I have seen FHVs at JFK, drivers asking
>> people waiting for the yellows charging a flat rate to get into town
>> (seems to me it was usually about $60-$75 the most recent time I was
>> there).  I always wondered if those were legal or if there was some way
>> to tell whether they were or not.
> 
> They are NOT legal, they may only pickup prearranged fares, never
> solicite fares or pick up street hails.  NOw it is common for FHV's and
> gypsies to pick up street hails in the outer boroughs where yellows
> don'w want to go anyway.  But not at the airports.  In fact it is also
> against regs for yellows to pick up hails at the airports.  It must be
> the taxi line or nothing.

Good to know, definitely will keep that in mind next time I'm there.

> They seemed to take people out of the
>> cab load/unload area there at the airport up into a nearby parking lot.
> 
> Absolutely illegal
> 
> http://newyorkhack.blogspot.com/2007/07/perfectly-legal.html

Thanks again,

Jim

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