Ingo Guenther wrote:

>>But again, I 
>>think we are making these comments in the wrong place.  Either the 
>>contest admins need to start reading these groups or we need to start 
>>using the irtc_l I think.
> 
> 
> Hmmm, maybe it's not the wrong place, but it's the wrong state of mind.
> You know TANSTAAFL?
> 
> Maybe it's more like WYGIFFDEIIT (When You Get It For Free, Don't Expect
> It In Time)
> 
> They're volunteers, I think. They're not paid for it. What else do I have
> to say?
> 
> PS: I'm really looking forward to seeing the next version of GIMP. It'll
> still take some time and it'll be good _and_ free - so _I DON'T COMPLAIN_
> (sorry ;) ).
> 
When the speed of the service is being complained about, I do *not* 
agree with the complainers. I'm as sensitive as anyone to the voluntary 
nature of all this. And appreciative.  My usual comparison is that, 
worst case, it is like a bistro where the service might be casual, but 
it is friendly and you can hang out there all day.  I like these kind of 
bistros.  And I have yet to make an entry and meet the deadline. Ask 
Bill or Chip.  I am sure they are aware of it. I *depend* on the fact 
that a little human leeway is offered.  That part of it I like. *Just as 
it is.*  I would not what it to change.  I like human leeway where ever 
I can get it.  And I have never complained intentionally.  Other 
contests on the web are like McDonald's to me.  I could go on...

I also understand that for newer participants there can be a huge 
buildup of excitement surrounding making an entry. At least there was 
for me the first few times. They need to realize it's only pictures. 
Fun, but only pictures. Take a step back. It will be just as gratifying 
  whenever you get the results back see your achievement.  I've not 
explicitely stated this before because I thought everyone understood it.

I also see that "need to start reading these groups" comes off as a 
demand.  It wasn't meant to be.  I was just outlining what I think is 
the situation.  I believe I have seen Bill Marrs state on numerous 
times, but not recently, that he does not read the groups and prefers 
the list.  I totally respect that.  But again, for a newcomer it is a 
bit of a fake out.  They are posting on i.general, they think they are 
being heard.  I just wanted to alert some of the newer names to that fact.

With what Jean was saying that I *do* agree with is his general spirit 
of encouragement and his attempt to inject some energy into the contest 
side of things. He values what is there.  He made the effort to go 
throught the data and put some tracking in place as a sort of meta 
contest.  I think it is a real act of appreciation. And a creative idea.
This may seem contradictory coming from me because I usually strive to 
play down the competitive side of the contest.  But his idea rounds out 
the way recognition is given I believe.  It not only clearly shows that 
the biggest winners are the hardest workers, it offers that there is 
more than one way to win.  I think it is a brilliant idea actually and 
totally fits with the spirit of our "take time to smell the roses" 
approach here.

I think what Jean intended on the site design issue,
  and what I intended by chiming in, was to inject a little energy, a 
little encouragement.  I am solidly in the "ain't broken, don't fix it" 
camp.  But while I *love* the charm of the IRTC home page graphics, some 
of the charm as worn off of the funkier aspects of the navigation.  It 
is a little weird trying to explain to people that to see my picture, 
they have to first click on the winner's picture, then scroll down past 
the runners' up pictures, and then find a link that says something about 
"viewing page".  You can put a modern stove in a charming old bistro and 
have a cheerier, charming old bistro.  And what we are saying is... you 
got something good here, spend some money on a stove.  People are 
willing to help.  It doesn't have to be the "new site design contest" 
format either.  Maybe someone has a nephew that's anxious to do some 
design.  But definitely I would keep the patina that accompanies IRTC's 
seniority on the Net.

Now I was around during the time of the latest update to the POV site 
and I realize that it doesn't come without a cost.  Arguments happen, 
feelings get hurt.  Further, I am also one the fatuous types who doesn't 
know how to define or achieve a better design, I just "know it when I 
see it"  So I'm in no position to be criticizing.  And I may be 
completely wrong. But the Web has matured a bit.  Not every single 
mouse-clicker thinks they are God's give to webdesign. (There is a 
small, but devoted handful of us that don't).  There might be fewer 
arguments.  And again, for someone with the talent and energy, some good 
might be accomplished.  We just want to give the encouragement not the 
complaint.

-Jim

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