povray.off-topic message digest

[Bald Eagle] ISP Failure [4 days 19 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Wed, 1 Apr 2026 12:10:00 GMT

Either my provider has completely dropped the ball,
or my router has finally died.

I may be getting new service or a new provider, but I will have no forum or
email access in the evening until the situation is rectified.

- BE

[Clarence1898] Re: POV Server go down? [19 days 12 hours and 1 minute ago]

Tue, 17 Mar 2026 19:20:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Clarence1898" <dle### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
>
> > From central Indiana and haven't been able to login since Thursday.  I tried
> > Firefox, Google, Edge on my pc and Safari on my phone.  Even a ping would time
> > out.  Didn't have any problem with other sites.
>
> I'm curious:
>
> Have you tried accessing the site using a web proxy service, or a newsreader
> like Thunderbird?
>
> Also, how are you accessing it just now?
>
> - BE

Earlier today I was able to access from my phone, so when I got home I tried
from my pc and was successful.  I have no idea what happened but from Thursday
through Monday it timed out.

[Leroy] Re: POV Server go down? [19 days 13 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Tue, 17 Mar 2026 18:15:00 GMT

"Clarence1898" <dle### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
>
> From central Indiana and haven't been able to login since Thursday.  I tried
> Firefox, Google, Edge on my pc and Safari on my phone.  Even a ping would time
> out.  Didn't have any problem with other sites.

I'm back(3/17/26) 2 days in a row! :) I think it was relay router(or what ever
the f??? you call it) See Chris Cason's post for more about the matter.

Have Fun!

[Bald Eagle] Re: POV Server go down? [19 days 13 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Tue, 17 Mar 2026 18:10:00 GMT

"Clarence1898" <dle### [at] comcastnet> wrote:

> From central Indiana and haven't been able to login since Thursday.  I tried
> Firefox, Google, Edge on my pc and Safari on my phone.  Even a ping would time
> out.  Didn't have any problem with other sites.

I'm curious:

Have you tried accessing the site using a web proxy service, or a newsreader
like Thunderbird?

Also, how are you accessing it just now?

- BE

[Clarence1898] Re: POV Server go down? [19 days 14 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Tue, 17 Mar 2026 16:35:00 GMT

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> > > On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 16:24:56 EDT, Leroy wrote:
> > >
> > > > I made a video yesterday and went to post it here and got the warning
> > > > 'Server not found'. I'm in the US (Joplin Missouri for sure) and was
> > > > wandering was the problem POV's server or mine!
> > >
> > > It seems you were able to post this message from the web interface....So
> > > it's unclear where you were trying to post from (I thought I might try to
> > > duplicate the issue myself).
> > >
> > > I see a binary post in povray.binaries.animations dated today, so it seems
> > > to be OK.  But as the news server stores both text and binary files, it
> > > shouldn't have kicked an error when trying to upload if text can be
> > > posted.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
> > > besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
> >
> > This site wouldn't even load!? Several other sites wouldn't load either. As I
> > don't have any idea who services who, I didn't know if a major server when down
> > or not. It was gone only for a day, But my imagination may have work over time
> > on what could have gone wrong. Maybe AI has decided that half the work doesn't
> > need POV. Maybe the Russians nuked something, or the middle east targeted POV.
> > But I feel much better now!
>
> That was few days ago! I lost POV all day sunday. I keep getting 'Time Out'
> messages. Usually when I load POV it's on the screen before you know it. But
> yesterday it took a few minutes before the error happen. I have Firefox and
> there's a box at the bottom of the screen that show the website address that is
> trying to load. Pov address was there most of the time then something popped up
> like 'trying to load data from It.. .com'. It didn't stay on long enough for me
> to copy it down. So I thinking that the trouble is some where between here and
> there. At least I'm here today:)

From central Indiana and haven't been able to login since Thursday.  I tried
Firefox, Google, Edge on my pc and Safari on my phone.  Even a ping would time
out.  Didn't have any problem with other sites.

[Leroy] Re: POV Server go down? [20 days 9 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Mon, 16 Mar 2026 22:15:00 GMT

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> > On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 16:24:56 EDT, Leroy wrote:
> >
> > > I made a video yesterday and went to post it here and got the warning
> > > 'Server not found'. I'm in the US (Joplin Missouri for sure) and was
> > > wandering was the problem POV's server or mine!
> >
> > It seems you were able to post this message from the web interface....So
> > it's unclear where you were trying to post from (I thought I might try to
> > duplicate the issue myself).
> >
> > I see a binary post in povray.binaries.animations dated today, so it seems
> > to be OK.  But as the news server stores both text and binary files, it
> > shouldn't have kicked an error when trying to upload if text can be
> > posted.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
> > besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
>
> This site wouldn't even load!? Several other sites wouldn't load either. As I
> don't have any idea who services who, I didn't know if a major server when down
> or not. It was gone only for a day, But my imagination may have work over time
> on what could have gone wrong. Maybe AI has decided that half the work doesn't
> need POV. Maybe the Russians nuked something, or the middle east targeted POV.
> But I feel much better now!

That was few days ago! I lost POV all day sunday. I keep getting 'Time Out'
messages. Usually when I load POV it's on the screen before you know it. But
yesterday it took a few minutes before the error happen. I have Firefox and
there's a box at the bottom of the screen that show the website address that is
trying to load. Pov address was there most of the time then something popped up
like 'trying to load data from It.. .com'. It didn't stay on long enough for me
to copy it down. So I thinking that the trouble is some where between here and
there. At least I'm here today:)

[Jim Henderson] Re: POV Server go down? [24 days 12 hours and 48 minutes ago]

Thu, 12 Mar 2026 18:33:28 GMT

On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 21:16:06 EDT, Leroy wrote:

> This site wouldn't even load!? Several other sites wouldn't load either.
> As I don't have any idea who services who, I didn't know if a major
> server when down or not. It was gone only for a day, But my imagination
> may have work over time on what could have gone wrong. Maybe AI has
> decided that half the work doesn't need POV. Maybe the Russians nuked
> something, or the middle east targeted POV. But I feel much better now!

Could have been a temporary outage, but seems OK now. :)



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Bald Eagle] Re: POV Server go down? [24 days 20 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Thu, 12 Mar 2026 10:45:00 GMT

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> ... got the warning
> > > 'Server not found'.

> This site wouldn't even load!?

I got the same thing - it was for maybe 2-3h.
I posted something in the morning, and then went to post something or look
something up, and there was no povray.org

Assuming it was some sort of tech issue that was part of the server move.

- BE

[Leroy] Re: POV Server go down? [25 days 6 hours and 1 minute ago]

Thu, 12 Mar 2026 01:20:00 GMT

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 16:24:56 EDT, Leroy wrote:
>
> > I made a video yesterday and went to post it here and got the warning
> > 'Server not found'. I'm in the US (Joplin Missouri for sure) and was
> > wandering was the problem POV's server or mine!
>
> It seems you were able to post this message from the web interface....So
> it's unclear where you were trying to post from (I thought I might try to
> duplicate the issue myself).
>
> I see a binary post in povray.binaries.animations dated today, so it seems
> to be OK.  But as the news server stores both text and binary files, it
> shouldn't have kicked an error when trying to upload if text can be
> posted.
>
>
>
> --
> "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
> besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

This site wouldn't even load!? Several other sites wouldn't load either. As I
don't have any idea who services who, I didn't know if a major server when down
or not. It was gone only for a day, But my imagination may have work over time
on what could have gone wrong. Maybe AI has decided that half the work doesn't
need POV. Maybe the Russians nuked something, or the middle east targeted POV.
But I feel much better now!

[Jim Henderson] Re: POV Server go down? [25 days 9 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Wed, 11 Mar 2026 21:22:13 GMT

On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 16:24:56 EDT, Leroy wrote:

> I made a video yesterday and went to post it here and got the warning
> 'Server not found'. I'm in the US (Joplin Missouri for sure) and was
> wandering was the problem POV's server or mine!

It seems you were able to post this message from the web interface....So 
it's unclear where you were trying to post from (I thought I might try to 
duplicate the issue myself).

I see a binary post in povray.binaries.animations dated today, so it seems 
to be OK.  But as the news server stores both text and binary files, it 
shouldn't have kicked an error when trying to upload if text can be 
posted.

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Leroy] POV Server go down? [25 days 10 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Wed, 11 Mar 2026 20:30:00 GMT

I made a video yesterday and went to post it here and got the warning 'Server
not found'. I'm in the US (Joplin Missouri for sure) and was wandering was the
problem POV's server or mine!

Having Fun?

[yesbird] Re: Git CLI to the rescue! [48 days 12 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Mon, 16 Feb 2026 18:41:58 GMT

On 16/02/2026 19:29, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> Finally some good news on the Git front!  My life is starting to ease up
> a bit.
> 

I am using https://github.com/apps/desktop and happy with it.
There is also a Linux version somewhere ...
-- 
YB

[jr] Re: Git CLI to the rescue! [48 days 14 hours and 1 minute ago]

Mon, 16 Feb 2026 17:20:00 GMT

hi,

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> ... Problem is, it piped the output into Less.

you mean 'less', yes ?

  Sorry, but I've been spoiled by GUIs since the late
> 1980s, and find terminal apps such as Less a bit clunky.

wondering which use of "spoiled", ie "(transitive) To ruin the character of, by
overindulgence; to coddle or pamper to excess", or "(transitive) To ruin; to
damage in such a way as to make undesirable or unusable" you had in mind ?
surely not "to become sour"..  </grin>

so, using your usual method, if you want to look at the contents of a zip file
(not extract it), what program do you use ?  or you want to look at a '.tar',
more common on GNU/Linux, perhaps compressed, again, not wanting to extract.
which program ?  if you want to read a compressed text file, say .gz or .xz,
which program do you use ?  or you want to quickly read some part of a PDF,
which program do you open ?  or, say, you are reading through some program
source (in your viewer) and spot a typo, can you edit it ?

'less' lets me do all of the above, including invoking the editor with the
cursor pretty near the "offending" bit (if it was approx centre of 'less' view).
 and all w/out a single rodent click, "hands on keyboard" ;-).

regards, jr.

[Cousin Ricky] Git CLI to the rescue! [48 days 14 hours and 52 minutes ago]

Mon, 16 Feb 2026 16:29:16 GMT

Finally some good news on the Git front!  My life is starting to ease up
a bit.

I found myself confused over what changes I made between a couple of
branches last month, so I tried to use the Diff Branches feature of
Git-Cola.  But I couldn't figure out what Git-Cola was diffing.  Some
blob in the /tmp directory doesn't really tell me what it's looking at.

So I did a git diff from the command line.  Problem is, it piped the
output into Less.  Sorry, but I've been spoiled by GUIs since the late
1980s, and find terminal apps such as Less a bit clunky.

So, after a futile attempt to find clear instructions about Git-Cola
online, I went back to Git-Cola to try to figure things out myself.  But
everything I tried showed a comparison of I-don't-know-what to some
*previous* commit (and I only knew *that* due to a change I did remember
making), which was not what I wanted.

Then Captain Obvious whispered to me: just go back to the CLI and see if
redirecting git diff into a text file would lose the Less pipe!  It
worked.  I can now just peruse the differences with my GUI text editor.

One of the things I appreciate about Git-Cola is how seamlessly it works
with Git.  I can go back and forth between Git-Cola and the CLI at will.

[Nekar Xenos] Re: Practical Stargate kawoosh effect ideas [54 days 2 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Wed, 11 Feb 2026 05:00:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Nekar Xenos" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>
> > The reason I posted this in off-topic was a thought experiment on what would be
> > the easiest way to use the above method to make it for a man-cave? Instead of
> > the periscope which is too small, put a 45 degree mirror behind your stargate
> > model and a clear plastic tub of water above it. Then use a compressor to blow
> > air in.
>
> OOOOoooooh.
> Constructing one IRL!
>
> Maybe you could make it small and magnify it, and then just use a pellet gun or
> a paintball marker for your air cannon.
>
> Perhaps even shoot the air through a small hole in a mirror to hide the
> mechanism.
>
> You could even use a webcam or something so that you could composite the
> stargate ring and the kawoosh somehow.
>
> - BE

 Yes, a magnifying mirror might work and maybe even help to bring the image more
foreward. Maybe I should try recreating it in Pov-Ray with photons.

-Nekar Xenos-

[Bald Eagle] Re: Practical Stargate kawoosh effect ideas [54 days 19 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Tue, 10 Feb 2026 12:05:00 GMT

"Nekar Xenos" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

> The reason I posted this in off-topic was a thought experiment on what would be
> the easiest way to use the above method to make it for a man-cave? Instead of
> the periscope which is too small, put a 45 degree mirror behind your stargate
> model and a clear plastic tub of water above it. Then use a compressor to blow
> air in.

OOOOoooooh.
Constructing one IRL!

Maybe you could make it small and magnify it, and then just use a pellet gun or
a paintball marker for your air cannon.

Perhaps even shoot the air through a small hole in a mirror to hide the
mechanism.

You could even use a webcam or something so that you could composite the
stargate ring and the kawoosh somehow.

- BE

[Nekar Xenos] Re: Practical Stargate kawoosh effect ideas [55 days and 46 minutes ago]

Tue, 10 Feb 2026 06:35:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
>
https://www.gateworld.net/news/2020/07/stargate-vfx-supervisor-creating-kawoosh-effect-sg1-early-days/
>
> KAWOOSH!
>
> amazing kawoosh effect on a TV budget and schedule. That iconic shot of the
> Stargate connecting a wormhole to a distant world has to look right.
>
>
> ordered a special [tank] for the show, and it was one meter by one meter by one
>
>
>
>
> tests, then we set the pressure at 50 pounds. So, we roll the camera at 120
> frames per second, the water is as flat as we can make it, you push the button
> and it lets the air go down the tube right into the water. Well, as it turns
> out, [the movie] used about 5 pounds, or 10 pounds. So 50 pounds just emptied
> the tank everywhere!
>

It's nice to see you guys again!

The reason I posted this in off-topic was a thought experiment on what would be
the easiest way to use the above method to make it for a man-cave? Instead of
the periscope which is too small, put a 45 degree mirror behind your stargate
model and a clear plastic tub of water above it. Then use a compressor to blow
air in.

The only issue is that the kawoosh splash won't go out into the room like in the
series, and the ripples will be way behind the stargate. Which is why I started
thinking of parabolic mirrors.

-Nekar Xenos-

[Bald Eagle] Re: Practical Stargate kawoosh effect ideas [55 days 10 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Mon, 9 Feb 2026 21:00:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:

> Of course you could do it with spheres and CSG as well.
.....
> I'd say that you'd want that extended "blooping" of a forcibly extruded air
> bubble in water, though.

I'm at work, and my brain is slow ---

this would probably best be done using BLOBS, since that would give you
excellent bounding plus some of that "blooping" effect with spheres that were
semi-detached from the main mass.

Alternatively, you might consider using a cone or capped cylinder isosurface for
the bubbles and perturb the surface with a fractal noise function.

- BE

[Bald Eagle] Re: Practical Stargate kawoosh effect ideas [55 days 13 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Mon, 9 Feb 2026 17:30:00 GMT

https://www.gateworld.net/news/2020/07/stargate-vfx-supervisor-creating-kawoosh-effect-sg1-early-days/

KAWOOSH!
Arguably the biggest task for Gajdecki and his team was to recreate the movie’s
amazing kawoosh effect on a TV budget and schedule. That iconic shot of the
Stargate connecting a wormhole to a distant world has to look right.

For Gajdecki and his team, the answer turned out to be trial and error. “We
ordered a special [tank] for the show, and it was one meter by one meter by one
meter,” he said.

“We set up an air cannon above [but] we didn’t know how much air pressure to
use,” he recalled. “We set the camera up, we set the lights up, we shot some
tests, then we set the pressure at 50 pounds. So, we roll the camera at 120
frames per second, the water is as flat as we can make it, you push the button
and it lets the air go down the tube right into the water. Well, as it turns
out, [the movie] used about 5 pounds, or 10 pounds. So 50 pounds just emptied
the tank everywhere!

“It was spectacularly cool! But OK … fill it back up, everybody dry off, and
we’re going to try it again!”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1ODClVbjsw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usHi9c3e_rY
"After years of on and off tweaking, I finalized the Kawoosh animation. It's all
done in LightWave 2018 using a complex nodal displacement setup, with some post
processing in After Effects.

It's the very same principle as in the breakdown video ( • Stargate Kawoosh
Animation Test (2014) ) I did years ago. The secret lies in tweaking the
displacement until it looks and animates like a water surface. The rest is
created by reflections of a proper background image, and a luminous surface
behind the event horizon."

Blender tutorial:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXr3IFsYWiI

[Bald Eagle] Re: Practical Stargate kawoosh effect ideas [55 days 14 hours and 1 minute ago]

Mon, 9 Feb 2026 17:20:00 GMT

"Nekar Xenos" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Today I went down the rabbit hole of Is It Possible To Recreate The Stargate
> Kawoosh theoretically as a practical effect? What I thought of first was take a
> periscope, remove the top part with the top mirror/prism and fill it with water.
> The viewer would now see water ripples on a vertical surface. Put a Stargate
> prop around the viewer and you're good to go. But obviously this will be too
> deep in and not be as close to the surface of the Stargate as it should be. Then
> I started thinking about the almost holographic effect of parabolic mirrors
> -that put my brain in an infinite fractal loop :-S
>
> Anyone have any ideas? :)
>
> -Nekar Xenos-

Hi Nekar,
Welcome back to the forums!  :)

like this? :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi_xG8XovrE

I'm assuming that it's the big bubble effect of the unstable vortex that you're
trying to do?

Perhaps an isosurface with bubble paths mapped out in randomized sine-wave
spline paths?  That way the bubbles get subtracted from the liquid isosurface,
and whoosh outwards until a max at pi/2 and return to the glyph ring at pi?
Randomizing the path radially would give a fill-in over the whole surface of the
"water".

Of course you could do it with spheres and CSG as well.

We recently partially reworked a bubbles macro, and I did a physically correct
falling raindrop that you could use for bubble shapes as well.

I'd say that you'd want that extended "blooping" of a forcibly extruded air
bubble in water, though.

Maybe model that like the gravitational breakup of a falling stream of water.

- BE

[Nekar Xenos] Practical Stargate kawoosh effect ideas [55 days 21 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Mon, 9 Feb 2026 10:05:00 GMT

Today I went down the rabbit hole of Is It Possible To Recreate The Stargate
Kawoosh theoretically as a practical effect? What I thought of first was take a
periscope, remove the top part with the top mirror/prism and fill it with water.
The viewer would now see water ripples on a vertical surface. Put a Stargate
prop around the viewer and you're good to go. But obviously this will be too
deep in and not be as close to the surface of the Stargate as it should be. Then
I started thinking about the almost holographic effect of parabolic mirrors
-that put my brain in an infinite fractal loop :-S

Anyone have any ideas? :)

-Nekar Xenos-

[Jim Henderson] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [61 days 5 hours and 19 minutes ago]

Wed, 4 Feb 2026 02:02:44 GMT

On Tue,  3 Feb 2026 05:08:03 EST, Mr wrote:

> ....Just make sure you fully grasp the distinction and nature of Commit
> versus push!

100%.  I actually did my little test a few days ago without a remote even 
configured - because you can use git that way. :)

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [61 days 15 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Tue, 3 Feb 2026 15:46:35 GMT

On 2026-02-03 05:57 (-4), Mr wrote:
> Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> 
>> But .gitignore is one aspect of git that has never given me any surprises.
> 
> The way it had for me, if my poor memory is correct, was some kind of wildcard
> that I wasn't aware I had used, and could apply ignore to a whole type of files
> instead of specific ones. But you're probably more cautious than that. :-)

Matter of fact, the wildcard feature has been a great organizational
tool for me.  My typical .gitignore entries include:
  *~
  /*/*
  /test_*

(The /*/* entry works for my Object Collection projects because Object
Collection contributions have no directory structure.)

[Mr] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [61 days 21 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Tue, 3 Feb 2026 10:10:00 GMT

One other thing I notice when quickly going through this discussion, has been
left out of it, maybe because too "obvious" or people around here generally
better at it than I was (^-^), also you'd have had other issues if that was your
blind spot... but I remember it was one of the slightly confusing cornerstones
for me initially, so I do feel compelled to write about it:

....Just make sure you fully grasp the distinction and nature of Commit versus
push!

[Mr] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [61 days 21 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Tue, 3 Feb 2026 10:00:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:

> But .gitignore is one aspect of git that has never given me any surprises.

The way it had for me, if my poor memory is correct, was some kind of wildcard
that I wasn't aware I had used, and could apply ignore to a whole type of files
instead of specific ones. But you're probably more cautious than that. :-)

[Mr] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [61 days 21 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Tue, 3 Feb 2026 09:45:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> On 2026-01-30 22:42 (-4), Bill Pragnell wrote:
> > Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 10:02:14 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> >>> On 2026-01-26 02:00 (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
> >>>> But it looks like the file is tracked, so any changes to it made in one
> >>>> branch shouldn't affect other branches,
> >
> > Are we confusing our usage of 'change' perhaps? A 'change' to a file (in
> > git-speak) refers to an edit, without any git interaction, which is what I've
> > been assuming. A change to a branch is usually called a 'commit', and that will
> > indeed be unique to the branch.
> >
> >>> I'm sensing disagreement in what "tracked" means.  Jim is using
> >>> "tracked" the way I've understood it, but Bill is describing the
> >>> behavior I'm seeing from git.
> >
> > I think git itself may also be confusing the issue here. 'Tracked' just means
> > the file has been added to the repo. If I add a new file to a project (without
> > git interaction - just make a new file within a repo), it is listed as
> > 'untracked' because it does not yet have an entry in the repo - its entire
> > contents are a 'change'. If I 'git add' and then 'git commit' that file, it is
> > then 'tracked' as part of that branch from that point on. But you could say that
> > even an 'untracked' file is tracked in the sense of git being aware of it,
> > because it appears in the status. Only files/directories in .gitignore are truly
> > untracked because edits to them will be ignored.
> >
> > Uncommitted changes (i.e. edits to a file) will not be affected by switching
> > branches, unless there is a conflict - i.e. if the edits apply to a section of a
> > file that is different in the two branches. In that case, git will not switch
> > branches, but instead tell you to commit or 'stash' your changes before
> > switching (stashing is saving your changes on a temp stack rather than
> > committing them).
> >
> > Sorry if I'm muddying the water here! I remember being quite confused about how
> > git worked when I first started using it.
>
> No, this is very helpful!  Thank you!
>
> (And I just watched a video about how pilots and air traffic controllers
> unknowingly disagreed on definitions of terms, and the result was a
> major crash, all souls lost.)

Yes, that's good clear explanations, the topic itself is complex, and there is a
threshold to it, a kind of "Gestalt" that needs to be reached before one starts
to feel you gain more with all that complexity despite it's learning curve, and
after you reach it, you don't have to become expert/power-user to be okay. you
end up developing a cautious intuition of what features to stay away from vs the
ones to dive into until you do have more time :-D  I still consider myself very
much of a beginner, but still admire and enjoy this tool!

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [64 days 2 hours and 13 minutes ago]

Sun, 1 Feb 2026 05:08:42 GMT

On 2026-01-30 22:42 (-4), Bill Pragnell wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 10:02:14 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>>> On 2026-01-26 02:00 (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>> But it looks like the file is tracked, so any changes to it made in one
>>>> branch shouldn't affect other branches,
> 
> Are we confusing our usage of 'change' perhaps? A 'change' to a file (in
> git-speak) refers to an edit, without any git interaction, which is what I've
> been assuming. A change to a branch is usually called a 'commit', and that will
> indeed be unique to the branch.
> 
>>> I'm sensing disagreement in what "tracked" means.  Jim is using
>>> "tracked" the way I've understood it, but Bill is describing the
>>> behavior I'm seeing from git.
> 
> I think git itself may also be confusing the issue here. 'Tracked' just means
> the file has been added to the repo. If I add a new file to a project (without
> git interaction - just make a new file within a repo), it is listed as
> 'untracked' because it does not yet have an entry in the repo - its entire
> contents are a 'change'. If I 'git add' and then 'git commit' that file, it is
> then 'tracked' as part of that branch from that point on. But you could say that
> even an 'untracked' file is tracked in the sense of git being aware of it,
> because it appears in the status. Only files/directories in .gitignore are truly
> untracked because edits to them will be ignored.
> 
> Uncommitted changes (i.e. edits to a file) will not be affected by switching
> branches, unless there is a conflict - i.e. if the edits apply to a section of a
> file that is different in the two branches. In that case, git will not switch
> branches, but instead tell you to commit or 'stash' your changes before
> switching (stashing is saving your changes on a temp stack rather than
> committing them).
> 
> Sorry if I'm muddying the water here! I remember being quite confused about how
> git worked when I first started using it.

No, this is very helpful!  Thank you!

(And I just watched a video about how pilots and air traffic controllers
unknowingly disagreed on definitions of terms, and the result was a
major crash, all souls lost.)

[Jim Henderson] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [65 days 1 hour and 14 minutes ago]

Sat, 31 Jan 2026 06:07:54 GMT

On 31 Jan 2026 00:55:13 -0500, Jim Henderson wrote:

> On 31 Jan 2026 00:52:22 -0500, Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> This is what I'm used to seeing.  But my usage generally had me making
>> changes within a branch, not creating the branch myself, and then the
>> developer who created the branch would merge things back (my main use
>> case for this was years ago creating in-product text strings for
>> documentation purposes - tooltips and the like).
> 
> I think I understand better now - once I committed the changes to
> master, then the branch I created (test1) "reverted" to what was
> originally in the file when I branched it (ie, it was empty).

So it seems to be that once a file is modified and then committed to a 
branch, then changes to it will require a stash or commit before changing 
branches again.

I probably never ran into this since the files I was modifying had already 
been through many iterations by the time I saw them.  But it makes logical 
sense to me that each branch isn't a full copy of everything in the state 
at which it was first added, and that it would be consistent across 
branches until it was changed in one of them.

I'd guess that if a change were committed in 'branch1' and you switched 
back to 'master' where it wasn't committed, and created a new branch 
'branch2', that the behavior would be consistent as well, at least until 
'branch1' was merged back into 'master'.

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Jim Henderson] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [65 days 1 hour and 26 minutes ago]

Sat, 31 Jan 2026 05:55:13 GMT

On 31 Jan 2026 00:52:22 -0500, Jim Henderson wrote:

> This is what I'm used to seeing.  But my usage generally had me making
> changes within a branch, not creating the branch myself, and then the
> developer who created the branch would merge things back (my main use
> case for this was years ago creating in-product text strings for
> documentation purposes - tooltips and the like).

I think I understand better now - once I committed the changes to master, 
then the branch I created (test1) "reverted" to what was originally in the 
file when I branched it (ie, it was empty).



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Jim Henderson] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [65 days 1 hour and 29 minutes ago]

Sat, 31 Jan 2026 05:52:22 GMT

On Fri, 30 Jan 2026 21:42:09 EST, Bill Pragnell wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 10:02:14 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>> > On 2026-01-26 02:00 (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
>> >> But it looks like the file is tracked, so any changes to it made in
>> >> one branch shouldn't affect other branches,
> 
> Are we confusing our usage of 'change' perhaps? A 'change' to a file (in
> git-speak) refers to an edit, without any git interaction, which is what
> I've been assuming. A change to a branch is usually called a 'commit',
> and that will indeed be unique to the branch.

No, that's what I'm calling a change - an edit to the file.

>> > I'm sensing disagreement in what "tracked" means.  Jim is using
>> > "tracked" the way I've understood it, but Bill is describing the
>> > behavior I'm seeing from git.
> 
> I think git itself may also be confusing the issue here. 'Tracked' just
> means the file has been added to the repo. If I add a new file to a
> project (without git interaction - just make a new file within a repo),
> it is listed as 'untracked' because it does not yet have an entry in the
> repo - its entire contents are a 'change'. If I 'git add' and then 'git
> commit' that file, it is then 'tracked' as part of that branch from that
> point on. But you could say that even an 'untracked' file is tracked in
> the sense of git being aware of it, because it appears in the status.
> Only files/directories in .gitignore are truly untracked because edits
> to them will be ignored.

Hmmm.  I just created a quick test repo, and it's not working the way I 
remembered it, but it is working the way you're describing and CR is 
saying is happening for his setup, too.

> Uncommitted changes (i.e. edits to a file) will not be affected by
> switching branches, unless there is a conflict - i.e. if the edits apply
> to a section of a file that is different in the two branches. In that
> case, git will not switch branches, but instead tell you to commit or
> 'stash' your changes before switching (stashing is saving your changes
> on a temp stack rather than committing them).

This is what I'm used to seeing.  But my usage generally had me making 
changes within a branch, not creating the branch myself, and then the 
developer who created the branch would merge things back (my main use case 
for this was years ago creating in-product text strings for documentation 
purposes - tooltips and the like).

I've used it a fair bit on my own since then, but generally haven't needed 
to branch since the stuff I'm using it for is all for my own amusement.

> Sorry if I'm muddying the water here! I remember being quite confused
> about how git worked when I first started using it.
> 
> Bill

No worries, you got me to actually try it and see, and it wasn't matching 
my memory.  Show now I need to figure out why my memory is different than 
what I actually saw in my simple test.

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Bill Pragnell] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [65 days 4 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Sat, 31 Jan 2026 02:45:00 GMT

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 10:02:14 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> > On 2026-01-26 02:00 (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
> >> But it looks like the file is tracked, so any changes to it made in one
> >> branch shouldn't affect other branches,

Are we confusing our usage of 'change' perhaps? A 'change' to a file (in
git-speak) refers to an edit, without any git interaction, which is what I've
been assuming. A change to a branch is usually called a 'commit', and that will
indeed be unique to the branch.

> > I'm sensing disagreement in what "tracked" means.  Jim is using
> > "tracked" the way I've understood it, but Bill is describing the
> > behavior I'm seeing from git.

I think git itself may also be confusing the issue here. 'Tracked' just means
the file has been added to the repo. If I add a new file to a project (without
git interaction - just make a new file within a repo), it is listed as
'untracked' because it does not yet have an entry in the repo - its entire
contents are a 'change'. If I 'git add' and then 'git commit' that file, it is
then 'tracked' as part of that branch from that point on. But you could say that
even an 'untracked' file is tracked in the sense of git being aware of it,
because it appears in the status. Only files/directories in .gitignore are truly
untracked because edits to them will be ignored.

Uncommitted changes (i.e. edits to a file) will not be affected by switching
branches, unless there is a conflict - i.e. if the edits apply to a section of a
file that is different in the two branches. In that case, git will not switch
branches, but instead tell you to commit or 'stash' your changes before
switching (stashing is saving your changes on a temp stack rather than
committing them).

Sorry if I'm muddying the water here! I remember being quite confused about how
git worked when I first started using it.

Bill

[Jim Henderson] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [68 days 8 hours and 23 minutes ago]

Tue, 27 Jan 2026 22:58:07 GMT

On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 10:02:14 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> On 2026-01-26 02:00 (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:44:27 EST, Bill Pragnell wrote:
>>>
>>> An untracked file is just a big change after all.
>> 
>> But it looks like the file is tracked, so any changes to it made in one
>> branch shouldn't affect other branches, unless they're either not
>> tracked (which isn't the case) or in .gitignore (which would *probably*
>> require it to have been explicitly added in some way, and I expect CR
>> would know if he'd done that).
> 
> I'm sensing disagreement in what "tracked" means.  Jim is using
> "tracked" the way I've understood it, but Bill is describing the
> behavior I'm seeing from git.
> 
> But .gitignore is one aspect of git that has never given me any
> surprises.

Can you describe the workflow you're using, step by step - commands 
executed, and so on - in order to try to reproduce what you're seeing?


-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [68 days 17 hours and 19 minutes ago]

Tue, 27 Jan 2026 14:02:15 GMT

On 2026-01-26 02:00 (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:44:27 EST, Bill Pragnell wrote:
>>
>> An untracked file is just a big change after all.
> 
> But it looks like the file is tracked, so any changes to it made in one 
> branch shouldn't affect other branches, unless they're either not tracked 
> (which isn't the case) or in .gitignore (which would *probably* require it 
> to have been explicitly added in some way, and I expect CR would know if 
> he'd done that).

I'm sensing disagreement in what "tracked" means.  Jim is using
"tracked" the way I've understood it, but Bill is describing the
behavior I'm seeing from git.

But .gitignore is one aspect of git that has never given me any surprises.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [68 days 17 hours and 28 minutes ago]

Tue, 27 Jan 2026 13:53:40 GMT

On 2026-01-26 18:44 (-4), Bill Pragnell wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 23:56:33 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>>
>>> The files README.md, gemcuts.pov, and gemcuts_description.txt were
>>> modified while one branch was checked out, and the changes show in the
>>> other branch as well.
>>
>> Hmm.  I guess then we'd need to see what the status looks like from each
>> branch.  What you're seeing isn't consistent with my experience, at least.
> 
> I think that's what I would expect. If the changes don't have conflicts with any
> of the other branches then switching branches makes no difference, the changes
> will be left alone (unless there is a conflict, then git will warn you to commit
> your changes or lose them when switching branch). If you commit the changes to a
> branch, then you'll only see those changes on that branch - and now they won't
> be listed as changes by 'git status' any more.

This is exactly what I've seen since Sunday.

> An untracked file is just a big change after all.

[Jim Henderson] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [69 days 1 hour and 21 minutes ago]

Tue, 27 Jan 2026 06:00:46 GMT

On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:44:27 EST, Bill Pragnell wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 23:56:33 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>>
>> > The files README.md, gemcuts.pov, and gemcuts_description.txt were
>> > modified while one branch was checked out, and the changes show in
>> > the other branch as well.
>>
>> Hmm.  I guess then we'd need to see what the status looks like from
>> each branch.  What you're seeing isn't consistent with my experience,
>> at least.
> 
> I think that's what I would expect. If the changes don't have conflicts
> with any of the other branches then switching branches makes no
> difference, the changes will be left alone (unless there is a conflict,
> then git will warn you to commit your changes or lose them when
> switching branch). If you commit the changes to a branch, then you'll
> only see those changes on that branch - and now they won't be listed as
> changes by 'git status' any more.
> 
> An untracked file is just a big change after all.

But it looks like the file is tracked, so any changes to it made in one 
branch shouldn't affect other branches, unless they're either not tracked 
(which isn't the case) or in .gitignore (which would *probably* require it 
to have been explicitly added in some way, and I expect CR would know if 
he'd done that).
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Bill Pragnell] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [69 days 8 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Mon, 26 Jan 2026 22:45:00 GMT

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 23:56:33 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>
> > The files README.md, gemcuts.pov, and gemcuts_description.txt were
> > modified while one branch was checked out, and the changes show in the
> > other branch as well.
>
> Hmm.  I guess then we'd need to see what the status looks like from each
> branch.  What you're seeing isn't consistent with my experience, at least.

I think that's what I would expect. If the changes don't have conflicts with any
of the other branches then switching branches makes no difference, the changes
will be left alone (unless there is a conflict, then git will warn you to commit
your changes or lose them when switching branch). If you commit the changes to a
branch, then you'll only see those changes on that branch - and now they won't
be listed as changes by 'git status' any more.

An untracked file is just a big change after all.

Bill

[Mr] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [69 days 22 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Mon, 26 Jan 2026 08:35:00 GMT

> On 1/24/26 18:25, Bill Pragnell wrote:
>     And have a look at the ".gitignore" file documentation.

Indeed, in that case I would tend to highly suspect the gitignore, which can
feature very wide filters preventing files of some type of some naming patterns
to be normally flagged as untracked... OR you may also have git stash->pop
....ped over several branches. because stash can act as a bucket to port things
from one branch to another.

If you want to have other graphic views of your repos and stash black box, you
can also try :

* Gitlens with VScode/VSCodium or
* Git kraken, which looks awesome but somewhat limits its longterm featureset in
the long run.

-So Git-Cola rules for its cross platform, and free as in freesdom policies...
But mostly, don't forget its "DAG" visualisation for all your branches.

[Jim Henderson] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [70 days 14 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Sun, 25 Jan 2026 16:46:51 GMT

On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 23:56:33 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> The files README.md, gemcuts.pov, and gemcuts_description.txt were
> modified while one branch was checked out, and the changes show in the
> other branch as well.

Hmm.  I guess then we'd need to see what the status looks like from each 
branch.  What you're seeing isn't consistent with my experience, at least.



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[jr] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [70 days 20 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Sun, 25 Jan 2026 11:15:00 GMT

hi,

tTh <tth### [at] noneinvalid> wrote:
> ...
>     And now, I can run the big batch who make my current
>     projet: http://maison.tth.netlib.re/v/hc/full.mp4 :)

v nice, "sweet"..


regards, jr.

[tTh] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [70 days 23 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Sun, 25 Jan 2026 08:05:43 GMT

On 1/24/26 18:25, Bill Pragnell wrote:

>> Make sure you use `git add <filename>` for anything you want change
>> tracking enabled.

    And have a look at the ".gitignore" file documentation.

> Yes, this was my first thought - you need to commit your changes to the current
> branch or nothing gets tracked. Use 'git add <...>' to stage the changes, 'git
> commit' to commit them.

    I use this short-circuit:

$ vim groundbase.inc
     ... do some changes, exit vim
     ... run the tracing, look at the result
     ... if the result look correct, then
$ git commit -m "increase holes diameter" groudbase.inc

    And now, I can run the big batch who make my current
    projet: http://maison.tth.netlib.re/v/hc/full.mp4 :)




-- 
**                                                            **
*                      tTh des Bourtoulots                     *
*                  http://maison.tth.netlib.re/                *
**                                                            **

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [71 days 3 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Sun, 25 Jan 2026 03:56:33 GMT

On 2026-01-24 21:56 (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 21:13:05 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> 
>> On 2026-01-23 10:46 (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>
>>> I might be mistaken (it's WAY to early in the morning for me to be
>>> thinking about this), but if the file isn't added to the repo and just
>>> lives within the directory, then I don't think any changes get tracked,
>>> and this is the behavior you would probably see.
>>>
>>> Make sure you use `git add <filename>` for anything you want change
>>> tracking enabled.
>>
>> No, the files are definitely part of the repo.
> 
> Do you see them in `git status`?
> 
> If you see something like this:
> 
> $ git status
> On branch electron
> Your branch is up to date with 'origin/electron'.
> 
> Untracked files:
>   (use "git add <file>..." to include in what will be committed)
> 	package-lock.json
> 
> nothing added to commit but untracked files present (use "git add" to 
> track)
> 
> Then the file isn't part of the repo (in this case, package-lock.json 
> isn't part of the repo I was checking). That would be consistent with what 
> you're seeing.

------------------------[BEGIN TERMINAL SESSION]------------------------
$ git checkout restored_oc
M       README.md
M       gemcuts.pov
M       gemcuts_description.txt
Switched to branch 'restored_oc'
$ git status
On branch restored_oc
Changes not staged for commit:
  (use "git add <file>..." to update what will be committed)
  (use "git restore <file>..." to discard changes in working directory)
        modified:   README.md
        modified:   gemcuts.pov
        modified:   gemcuts_description.txt

Untracked files:
  (use "git add <file>..." to include in what will be committed)
        gem_ring-CSG.inc

no changes added to commit (use "git add" and/or "git commit -a")
$ git checkout main
M       README.md
M       gemcuts.pov
M       gemcuts_description.txt
Switched to branch 'main'
$ git status
On branch main
Changes not staged for commit:
  (use "git add <file>..." to update what will be committed)
  (use "git restore <file>..." to discard changes in working directory)
        modified:   README.md
        modified:   gemcuts.pov
        modified:   gemcuts_description.txt

Untracked files:
  (use "git add <file>..." to include in what will be committed)
        gem_ring-CSG.inc

no changes added to commit (use "git add" and/or "git commit -a")
-------------------------[END TERMINAL SESSION]-------------------------

The files README.md, gemcuts.pov, and gemcuts_description.txt were
modified while one branch was checked out, and the changes show in the
other branch as well.

N.B.  Pay no attention to file gem_ring-CSG.inc; it's untracked on
purpose.  It's just a file that I haven't added to .gitignore, and I'm
still trying to decide what to do with it.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Still stumped by git branches [71 days 4 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Sun, 25 Jan 2026 03:17:31 GMT

On 2026-01-24 22:00 (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 20:55:50 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> 
>> I think I need to take a class.  Not a video, not a tutorial, but an
>> actual class.
> 
> https://training.linuxfoundation.org/training/git-for-distributed-
> software-development-lfd109x/ might be a good free option to take a look 
> at.  I haven't looked at it, but I know folks at the Linux Foundation who 
> are involved in training, and they generally do a good job.
> 
> I see there's a module on branches as well.

Thanks, I'll look into it.

[Jim Henderson] Re: Still stumped by git branches [71 days 5 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Sun, 25 Jan 2026 02:00:36 GMT

On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 20:55:50 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> I think I need to take a class.  Not a video, not a tutorial, but an
> actual class.

https://training.linuxfoundation.org/training/git-for-distributed-
software-development-lfd109x/ might be a good free option to take a look 
at.  I haven't looked at it, but I know folks at the Linux Foundation who 
are involved in training, and they generally do a good job.

I see there's a module on branches as well.

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Jim Henderson] Re: Still stumped by git branches [71 days 5 hours and 23 minutes ago]

Sun, 25 Jan 2026 01:58:25 GMT

On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 21:00:03 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> On 2026-01-23 09:39 (-4), Mr wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, Consider it a scaffolding over which you do not HAVE to walk...
>> but COULD once people responsible for it will lead you by the hand...
>> one floor at a time... meanwhile you are allowed to walk beneath remote
>> admins, and Git does provide you some safer space, no matter how
>> intimidating its shadow is above your head :-P  Here is an example :
>> Instead of branches, you could have just used "stash" for now, which I
>> find simpler because of its being local.
> 
> But I don't understand what stash does.  I don't know what you mean by
> your scaffolding or "walk beneath" analogy.  I DON'T UNDERSTAND ANY OF
> THIS!

'git stash' takes the current set of changes (for tracked files only) and 
stores them separate from the current branch.  It's a way of reverting 
changes without undoing them; you can `pop` the stash to reapply the 
changes.


-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Jim Henderson] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [71 days 5 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Sun, 25 Jan 2026 01:56:23 GMT

On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 21:13:05 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> On 2026-01-23 10:46 (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
>> 
>> I might be mistaken (it's WAY to early in the morning for me to be
>> thinking about this), but if the file isn't added to the repo and just
>> lives within the directory, then I don't think any changes get tracked,
>> and this is the behavior you would probably see.
>> 
>> Make sure you use `git add <filename>` for anything you want change
>> tracking enabled.
> 
> No, the files are definitely part of the repo.

Do you see them in `git status`?

If you see something like this:

$ git status
On branch electron
Your branch is up to date with 'origin/electron'.

Untracked files:
  (use "git add <file>..." to include in what will be committed)
	package-lock.json

nothing added to commit but untracked files present (use "git add" to 
track)

Then the file isn't part of the repo (in this case, package-lock.json 
isn't part of the repo I was checking). That would be consistent with what 
you're seeing.

Jim

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Jim Henderson] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [71 days 5 hours and 28 minutes ago]

Sun, 25 Jan 2026 01:53:12 GMT

On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 21:29:18 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> On 2026-01-24 13:25 (-4), Bill Pragnell wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, this was my first thought - you need to commit your changes to the
>> current branch or nothing gets tracked. Use 'git add <...>' to stage
>> the changes, 'git commit' to commit them.
> 
> Are you saying that changes will show up in *all* branches until they're
> committed to *one* of the branches?

Technically, they don't show up in any branch because the file isn't 
tracked.  If a file isn't tracked, it exists outside git's "system", and 
the file will appear the same in all branches (but it's not in any of 
them.  If you wipe the directory and then do a git pull, the file won't be 
there at all).

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [71 days 5 hours and 52 minutes ago]

Sun, 25 Jan 2026 01:29:19 GMT

On 2026-01-24 13:25 (-4), Bill Pragnell wrote:
> 
> Yes, this was my first thought - you need to commit your changes to the current
> branch or nothing gets tracked. Use 'git add <...>' to stage the changes, 'git
> commit' to commit them.

Are you saying that changes will show up in *all* branches until they're
committed to *one* of the branches?

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [71 days 6 hours ago]

Sun, 25 Jan 2026 01:21:02 GMT

On 2026-01-23 20:15 (-4), Mr wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>>
>> I might be mistaken (it's WAY to early in the morning for me to be
>> thinking about this), but if the file isn't added to the repo and just
>> lives within the directory, then I don't think any changes get tracked,
>> and this is the behavior you would probably see.
>>
>> Make sure you use `git add <filename>` for anything you want change
>> tracking enabled.
> 
> Also I don't know how bad you feel about using GUI, but I love Git-Cola for
> spotting that kind of issue.

Git-Cola has been wonderful, and it works seemlessly with the CLI.  But
the files in question *are* being tracked.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [71 days 6 hours and 8 minutes ago]

Sun, 25 Jan 2026 01:13:06 GMT

On 2026-01-23 10:46 (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
> I might be mistaken (it's WAY to early in the morning for me to be 
> thinking about this), but if the file isn't added to the repo and just 
> lives within the directory, then I don't think any changes get tracked, 
> and this is the behavior you would probably see.
> 
> Make sure you use `git add <filename>` for anything you want change 
> tracking enabled.

No, the files are definitely part of the repo.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Still stumped by git branches [71 days 6 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Sun, 25 Jan 2026 01:00:04 GMT

On 2026-01-23 09:39 (-4), Mr wrote:
> 
> Yes, Consider it a scaffolding over which you do not HAVE to walk... but COULD
> once people responsible for it will lead you by the hand... one floor at a
> time... meanwhile you are allowed to walk beneath remote admins, and Git does
> provide you some safer space, no matter how intimidating its shadow is above
> your head :-P  Here is an example : Instead of branches, you could have just
> used "stash" for now, which I find simpler because of its being local.

But I don't understand what stash does.  I don't know what you mean by
your scaffolding or "walk beneath" analogy.  I DON'T UNDERSTAND ANY OF THIS!

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Still stumped by git branches [71 days 6 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Sun, 25 Jan 2026 00:55:51 GMT

On 2026-01-22 23:23 (-4), Shay wrote:
> 
> Youâ€™re making it hard. Why are you branching at all?
Donâ€™t get caught up in
> trying to do what â€œadvanced usersâ€ do, because
advanced isnâ€™t linear. Learn to
> use the parts *you* need, because you may never use the parts you imagine you
> *might* need, even if you *do* become advanced.

I'm branching because I have future plans and tentative ideas for some
of my projects that I'm not ready to incorporate into the main project.
I also have user manuals and READMEs for my Object Collection
contributions that will need to be updated once the Object Collection is
rebooted.  Up till now, I've been renaming files or keeping them in
separate directories--or, in the case of the user manuals and READMEs,
having to revert the files every time I push an update to GitHub.  This
is rather cumbersome, and git branches seems (to me) to be suitable for
this sort of workflow.

> Branching itself is easy enough. Maybe find a workflow where itâ€™s
required. Fork
> a repo, make a change, then submit a pull request. You donâ€™t even
need to be
> able to code. Submit a request for typos in the README if you like. That is
> straightforward, done the same way by thousands, clearly documented online, and
> a way to use tools for the exact purpose they were designed.

Branching seems super simple on paper, but in practice, it doesn't
behave the way I expect it to.  There is something conceptually
fundamental about git that I do not understand, and I feel that until I
do understand whatever it is that I'm missing, I will continue to be
frustrated with git, no matter how easy or "advanced" the feature.

I think I need to take a class.  Not a video, not a tutorial, but an
actual class.

[Bill Pragnell] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [71 days 8 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Sat, 24 Jan 2026 22:40:00 GMT

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 12:25:51 EST, Bill Pragnell wrote:
>
> > Yes, this was my first thought - you need to commit your changes to the
> > current branch or nothing gets tracked. Use 'git add <...>' to stage the
> > changes, 'git commit' to commit them.
>
> IIRC, 'git status' will show if that's the case, as it shows untracked
> files.

Yep, 'git status' with no other args will list staged files, changed tracked
files and untracked files in separate sections.

This scenario sounds like there would just be items in the 'changes' section,
since these are changes to tracked files. A newly added file would appear in
untracked files.

Bill

[Jim Henderson] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [71 days 10 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Sat, 24 Jan 2026 21:10:21 GMT

On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 12:25:51 EST, Bill Pragnell wrote:

> Yes, this was my first thought - you need to commit your changes to the
> current branch or nothing gets tracked. Use 'git add <...>' to stage the
> changes, 'git commit' to commit them.

IIRC, 'git status' will show if that's the case, as it shows untracked 
files.


-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Bill Pragnell] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [71 days 13 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Sat, 24 Jan 2026 17:30:00 GMT

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2026 00:25:24 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> > Nope, that wasn't it.  It still changes both branches at the same time.
>
> I might be mistaken (it's WAY to early in the morning for me to be
> thinking about this), but if the file isn't added to the repo and just
> lives within the directory, then I don't think any changes get tracked,
> and this is the behavior you would probably see.
>
> Make sure you use `git add <filename>` for anything you want change
> tracking enabled.

Yes, this was my first thought - you need to commit your changes to the current
branch or nothing gets tracked. Use 'git add <...>' to stage the changes, 'git
commit' to commit them.

Bill

[jr] Re: Still stumped by git branches [71 days 21 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Sat, 24 Jan 2026 09:50:00 GMT

hi,

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> On 1/15/26 09:56 (-4), Mr wrote:
> > Hi, I don't know how far you've been in the journey to try and make sense of
> > (g)it...
> A little over 4 years, and not very far.
>
> > a)Did you read ProGit the free ebook?
> > https://git-scm.com/book/fr/v2
> My eyes are glazing over, and my head is in a fog.
> ...

there are alternatives, too :-).
<fossil-scm.org/home/doc/trunk/www/index.wiki>


regards, jr.

[Mr] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [72 days 7 hours and 1 minute ago]

Sat, 24 Jan 2026 00:20:00 GMT

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2026 00:25:24 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>
> > On 2026-01-22 22:38 (-4), Shay wrote:
> >> Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> >>> I created a branch, made some changes there, then switched back to the
> >>> main branch, and the changes were also in that branch as well.  Why
> >>> did the changes apply to both branches?  What am I missing?
> >>>
> >>> Most baffling is that I got branches to work just 3 weeks ago.  I
> >>> don't know what I did differently.
> >>
> >> 90% chance you created a branch with `git branch` but then never
> >> checked it out.
> >> Create a branch with `git checkout -b new-branch` to do both at the
> >> same time.
> >
> > Nope, that wasn't it.  It still changes both branches at the same time.
>
> I might be mistaken (it's WAY to early in the morning for me to be
> thinking about this), but if the file isn't added to the repo and just
> lives within the directory, then I don't think any changes get tracked,
> and this is the behavior you would probably see.
>
> Make sure you use `git add <filename>` for anything you want change
> tracking enabled.
>
>
>
> --
> "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
> besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Also I don't know how bad you feel about using GUI, but I love Git-Cola for
spotting that kind of issue.

[Jim Henderson] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [72 days 16 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Fri, 23 Jan 2026 14:46:12 GMT

On Fri, 23 Jan 2026 00:25:24 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> On 2026-01-22 22:38 (-4), Shay wrote:
>> Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
>>> I created a branch, made some changes there, then switched back to the
>>> main branch, and the changes were also in that branch as well.  Why
>>> did the changes apply to both branches?  What am I missing?
>>>
>>> Most baffling is that I got branches to work just 3 weeks ago.  I
>>> don't know what I did differently.
>> 
>> 90% chance you created a branch with `git branch` but then never
>> checked it out.
>> Create a branch with `git checkout -b new-branch` to do both at the
>> same time.
> 
> Nope, that wasn't it.  It still changes both branches at the same time.

I might be mistaken (it's WAY to early in the morning for me to be 
thinking about this), but if the file isn't added to the repo and just 
lives within the directory, then I don't think any changes get tracked, 
and this is the behavior you would probably see.

Make sure you use `git add <filename>` for anything you want change 
tracking enabled.



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Mr] Re: Still stumped by git branches [72 days 17 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Fri, 23 Jan 2026 13:40:00 GMT

"Shay" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> > On 2026-01-13 18:29 (-4), Shay wrote:
> > > The only thing branching is giving you here is a "save point" in case you want
> > > to discard an entire feature. Git, like many things, is as hard as you want to
> > > make it.
> >
> > What if I don't want to make it hard, and it's hard anyway?
>
>
>
> use the parts *you* need, because you may never use the parts you imagine you
> *might* need, even if you *do* become advanced.
>
>
>
> able to code. Submit a request for typos in the README if you like. That is
> straightforward, done the same way by thousands, clearly documented online, and
> a way to use tools for the exact purpose they were designed.

Yes, Consider it a scaffolding over which you do not HAVE to walk... but COULD
once people responsible for it will lead you by the hand... one floor at a
time... meanwhile you are allowed to walk beneath remote admins, and Git does
provide you some safer space, no matter how intimidating its shadow is above
your head :-P  Here is an example : Instead of branches, you could have just
used "stash" for now, which I find simpler because of its being local.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [73 days 2 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Fri, 23 Jan 2026 04:25:25 GMT

On 2026-01-22 22:38 (-4), Shay wrote:
> Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
>> I created a branch, made some changes there, then switched back to the
>> main branch, and the changes were also in that branch as well.  Why did
>> the changes apply to both branches?  What am I missing?
>>
>> Most baffling is that I got branches to work just 3 weeks ago.  I don't
>> know what I did differently.
> 
> 90% chance you created a branch with `git branch` but then never checked it out.
> Create a branch with `git checkout -b new-branch` to do both at the same time.

Nope, that wasn't it.  It still changes both branches at the same time.

[Shay] Re: Still stumped by git branches [73 days 3 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Fri, 23 Jan 2026 03:25:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> On 2026-01-13 18:29 (-4), Shay wrote:
> > The only thing branching is giving you here is a "save point" in case you want
> > to discard an entire feature. Git, like many things, is as hard as you want to
> > make it.
>
> What if I don't want to make it hard, and it's hard anyway?

You’re making it hard. Why are you branching at all? Don’t get caught up in
trying to do what “advanced users” do, because advanced isn’t linear.
Learn to
use the parts *you* need, because you may never use the parts you imagine you
*might* need, even if you *do* become advanced.

Branching itself is easy enough. Maybe find a workflow where it’s required. Fork
a repo, make a change, then submit a pull request. You don’t even need to be
able to code. Submit a request for typos in the README if you like. That is
straightforward, done the same way by thousands, clearly documented online, and
a way to use tools for the exact purpose they were designed.

[Shay] Re: Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [73 days 4 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Fri, 23 Jan 2026 02:40:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> I created a branch, made some changes there, then switched back to the
> main branch, and the changes were also in that branch as well.  Why did
> the changes apply to both branches?  What am I missing?
>
> Most baffling is that I got branches to work just 3 weeks ago.  I don't
> know what I did differently.

90% chance you created a branch with `git branch` but then never checked it out.
Create a branch with `git checkout -b new-branch` to do both at the same time.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Still stumped by git branches [74 days 3 hours and 2 minutes ago]

Thu, 22 Jan 2026 04:19:44 GMT

On 2026-01-13 18:29 (-4), Shay wrote:
> 
> If you aren't merging into a shared branch (i.e., if you're the only one working
> on a project and you aren't updating two branches at once), I wouldn't give it a
> second thought. The main idea is to avoid merge commits (which you can easily
> end up with anyway if you accept a pr), but you won't have merge commits as a
> single user if you [...]

At some point I'll want to git clone POV-Ray and submit pull requests.

[Cousin Ricky] Nope, I STILL don't understand git branches [74 days 3 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Thu, 22 Jan 2026 04:15:27 GMT

I created a branch, made some changes there, then switched back to the
main branch, and the changes were also in that branch as well.  Why did
the changes apply to both branches?  What am I missing?

Most baffling is that I got branches to work just 3 weeks ago.  I don't
know what I did differently.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Still stumped by git branches [74 days 3 hours and 12 minutes ago]

Thu, 22 Jan 2026 04:09:33 GMT

On 1/15/26 09:56 (-4), Mr wrote:
> 
> Hi, I don't know how far you've been in the journey to try and make sense of
> (g)it...

A little over 4 years, and not very far.

> a)Did you read ProGit the free ebook?
> https://git-scm.com/book/fr/v2

My eyes are glazing over, and my head is in a fog.

> b)Does this video tutorial help for your specific question?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ala6PHlYjmw

The video's "uncomfortable truth" has been blaringly obvious to me from
the start.  After 4 years, it seems clear that I still have no idea
what's going on.  *watches video*  I think I'm even more confused than I
was before.  I think.

I remember once having a detached head.  I had no idea what that meant
at the time, or what I did to detach it.  (I ended up deleting the
repository and restarting from scratch.)  Now I have some vague idea,
but I can't explain that idea to myself, and it's probably wrong anyway.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Still stumped by git branches [74 days 3 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Thu, 22 Jan 2026 04:01:51 GMT

On 2026-01-13 18:29 (-4), Shay wrote:
> The only thing branching is giving you here is a "save point" in case you want
> to discard an entire feature. Git, like many things, is as hard as you want to
> make it.

What if I don't want to make it hard, and it's hard anyway?

[Jim Henderson] Re: I found some old POV-Ray code [80 days 4 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Fri, 16 Jan 2026 02:35:42 GMT

On Thu, 15 Jan 2026 15:24:43 EST, Shay wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Jan 2026 13:07:50 EST, Shay wrote:
>>
>> Very cool, I'll check out the stuff your bot posts (I don't have an X
>> account, so if I have to log in, that sadly won't happen)
> 
> 
> Good on you. I had a bot before I quit in the late teens. I've thought
> about turning it back on for a while but waited until any temptation to
> actually look at X content had long passed. I did take a quick look
> around, because some friends followed and I wanted to see what they were
> up to, but the sameness (same takes, same sports, same gossip) turned my
> stomach. X is 100% safe for me now because I've zero temptation to read
> it. Social media is a cancer, BUT all of my work comes from networking
> (five years in business and I haven't had a single cold call), so
> reminding people I'm still alive (or at least my bot is) is important.
> And it gives me an excuse to go back and visit the decades of projects
> and interests I've fed it with: images, stories, poems, and hobbies I'd
> forgotten.

Yeah, I've got a few social media accounts that are there for keeping in 
touch with folks who are there, but otherwise, I don't tend to spend a lot 
of time up there myself apart from a couple FB groups that I agreed to 
admin.

I just started my own business, so LinkedIn is somewhat a "necessary 
evil", so I think of it as a creative outlet for work-related content.  
The business is pretty new and I'm seeking clients, and am a member of 
several professional orgs related to the business, so staying in contact 
there is necessary.

But I avoided Twitter/X/Bluesky and most of those kinds of things; mostly 
online forums and groups like these are what have sustained my need for 
interaction online with people.
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Shay] Re: I found some old POV-Ray code [80 days 10 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Thu, 15 Jan 2026 20:25:00 GMT

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2026 13:07:50 EST, Shay wrote:
>
> Very cool, I'll check out the stuff your bot posts (I don't have an X
> account, so if I have to log in, that sadly won't happen)

Good on you. I had a bot before I quit in the late teens. I've thought about
turning it back on for a while but waited until any temptation to actually look
at X content had long passed. I did take a quick look around, because some
friends followed and I wanted to see what they were up to, but the sameness
(same takes, same sports, same gossip) turned my stomach. X is 100% safe for me
now because I've zero temptation to read it. Social media is a cancer, BUT all
of my work comes from networking (five years in business and I haven't had a
single cold call), so reminding people I'm still alive (or at least my bot is)
is important. And it gives me an excuse to go back and visit the decades of
projects and interests I've fed it with: images, stories, poems, and hobbies I'd
forgotten.

[Jim Henderson] Re: I found some old POV-Ray code [80 days 12 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Thu, 15 Jan 2026 18:41:06 GMT

On Thu, 15 Jan 2026 13:07:50 EST, Shay wrote:

> I still use an old POV image as my personal brand on GitHub and my
> website. It reminds me of good times and good people, and my tastes
> haven't changed. I still use POV-Ray occasionally for work (example
> attached). If you'd like to see anything I've rendered over the past 20
> years, the best place to look is probably my automatic X feed. I don't
> read X, and neither should anyone else, but if you're interested, my bot
> is loaded with around 1000 procedurally generated images.

Very cool, I'll check out the stuff your bot posts (I don't have an X 
account, so if I have to log in, that sadly won't happen)



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Shay] Re: clean the computer time! [80 days 13 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Thu, 15 Jan 2026 18:15:00 GMT

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I just cleaned my computers today and was wondering. How often and how you clean
> yours. Today I just use the can air and a paint brush to knock the dust off.
>
> Have fun!

Every Friday. I spend most of my time at my desk, especially right now, because
I'm unemployed and looking / preparing for work. So, on Fridays, I take
everything off the desk, wipe off the coffee rings, and put it all back
together.

[Shay] Re: I found some old POV-Ray code [80 days 13 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Thu, 15 Jan 2026 18:15:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Shay" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > I thought I'd lost this from 20+ years ago
>
> Welcome back to the forums, and Hello.
>
> I was never here at the same time you were, but I've read a great many of your
> posts.
>
>
>
> - BE

That's encouraging, humbling, and frightening at the same time. I stand behind
my images, but I hope I've matured a bit over the past two decades.

Thank you.

[Shay] Re: I found some old POV-Ray code [80 days 13 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Thu, 15 Jan 2026 18:15:00 GMT

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 17:34:30 EST, Shay wrote:
>
> > I thought I'd lost this from 20+ years ago and never could get that look
> > back. "Rendered" this time around as SVG, but the algorithm is identical
> > to the way I did it in POV.
> >
> > Made a few hundred (you've got to love parameterization) and bot them
> > out on X twice a week. Still enamored with images like this. Some things
> > never change.
>
> Excellent to see you around again - always enjoyed seeing your creations,
> and always marveled at their construction.
>
>
>
> --
> "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
> besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

From: "Shay" <nomail@nomail>
Newsgroups: povray.off-topic
Subject: Re: I found some old POV-Ray code

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 17:34:30 EST, Shay wrote:
>
> > I thought I'd lost this from 20+ years ago and never could get that look
> > back. "Rendered" this time around as SVG, but the algorithm is identical
> > to the way I did it in POV.
> >
> > Made a few hundred (you've got to love parameterization) and bot them
> > out on X twice a week. Still enamored with images like this. Some things
> > never change.
>
> Excellent to see you around again - always enjoyed seeing your creations,
> and always marveled at their construction.
>
>
>
> --
> "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
> besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

I still do quite a bit of rendering, though it's predominantly SVG now. I even
occasionally get paid for it.

POV-Ray reinvigorated my interest in programming (now a major interest, 1500+
commits this year), taught me linear algebra, and developed my trig. I remember
asking ABX what a sum symbol was, and now I blog about math. I took a lot from
this program and this community, most of it good ;).

I still use an old POV image as my personal brand on GitHub and my website. It
reminds me of good times and good people, and my tastes haven't changed. I still
use POV-Ray occasionally for work. If you'd like to see
anything I've rendered over the past 20 years, the best place to look is
probably my automatic X feed. I don't read X, and neither should anyone else,
but if you're interested, my bot is loaded with around 1000 procedurally
generated images.

https://x.com/fsafety_llc

Great hearing from you, Jim.

[Shay] Re: I found some old POV-Ray code [80 days 13 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Thu, 15 Jan 2026 18:10:00 GMT

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 17:34:30 EST, Shay wrote:
>
> > I thought I'd lost this from 20+ years ago and never could get that look
> > back. "Rendered" this time around as SVG, but the algorithm is identical
> > to the way I did it in POV.
> >
> > Made a few hundred (you've got to love parameterization) and bot them
> > out on X twice a week. Still enamored with images like this. Some things
> > never change.
>
> Excellent to see you around again - always enjoyed seeing your creations,
> and always marveled at their construction.
>
>
>
> --
> "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
> besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

I still do quite a bit of rendering, though it's predominantly SVG now. I even
occasionally get paid for it.

POV-Ray reinvigorated my interest in programming (now a major interest, 1500+
commits this year), taught me linear algebra, and developed my trig. I remember
asking ABX what a sum symbol was, and now I blog about math. I took a lot from
this program and this community, most of it good ;).

I still use an old POV image as my personal brand on GitHub and my website. It
reminds me of good times and good people, and my tastes haven't changed. I still
use POV-Ray occasionally for work (example attached). If you'd like to see
anything I've rendered over the past 20 years, the best place to look is
probably my automatic X feed. I don't read X, and neither should anyone else,
but if you're interested, my bot is loaded with around 1000 procedurally
generated images.

https://x.com/fsafety_llc

Great hearing from you, Jim.

[Mr] Re: Still stumped by git branches [80 days 17 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Thu, 15 Jan 2026 14:00:00 GMT

"Shay" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> > I'm trying to learn branches in git, and one bit of advice I've heard,
> > from the one video that's been most helpful to me, is that "merging
> > locally isn't normally done; instead, changes are pushed and a pull
> > request is made."  So I did that, and now my GitHub repo is up-to-date.
> > GitHub also assured me that I could delete the branch, so I did that.
> >
> > But now, I've still got 2 local branches, and my local main[*] does not
> > have the changes from the branch.  How do I update the local main if I'm
> > not supposed to merge locally?
> >
> > I have both branches backed up locally, because frankly I don't know
> > what I'm doing, and I've corrupted repos before and had to git init or
> > git clone from scratch.  It's a hassle maintaining both git and manual
> > systems in parallel, but at least I know I won't lose everything on my
> > next git stumble.
> >
> > I've been using git for 4 years now, in part on the promise that it will
> > make my life easier.  How can that happen when, after 4 years, this
> > software is still utter black magic to me?
> >
> > [*]"master" using the old terminology.
>
> If you aren't merging into a shared branch (i.e., if you're the only one working
> on a project and you aren't updating two branches at once), I wouldn't give it a
> second thought. The main idea is to avoid merge commits (which you can easily
> end up with anyway if you accept a pr), but you won't have merge commits as a
> single user if you
>
> - git checkout some-branch (or) git checkout -b some-new-branch
> - make come commits, decide you want to keep them
> - git checkout main
> - git merge some-branch
>
> The only thing branching is giving you here is a "save point" in case you want
> to discard an entire feature. Git, like many things, is as hard as you want to
> make it.
> -

Hi, I don't know how far you've been in the journey to try and make sense of
(g)it...

a)Did you read ProGit the free ebook?
https://git-scm.com/book/fr/v2

b)Does this video tutorial help for your specific question?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ala6PHlYjmw

[Bald Eagle] Re: I found some old POV-Ray code [81 days 18 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Wed, 14 Jan 2026 13:05:00 GMT

"Shay" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> I thought I'd lost this from 20+ years ago

Welcome back to the forums, and Hello.

I was never here at the same time you were, but I've read a great many of your
posts.



- BE

[Jim Henderson] Re: I found some old POV-Ray code [82 days and 55 minutes ago]

Wed, 14 Jan 2026 06:26:06 GMT

On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 17:34:30 EST, Shay wrote:

> I thought I'd lost this from 20+ years ago and never could get that look
> back. "Rendered" this time around as SVG, but the algorithm is identical
> to the way I did it in POV.
> 
> Made a few hundred (you've got to love parameterization) and bot them
> out on X twice a week. Still enamored with images like this. Some things
> never change.

Excellent to see you around again - always enjoyed seeing your creations, 
and always marveled at their construction.



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Shay] I found some old POV-Ray code [82 days 8 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Tue, 13 Jan 2026 22:35:00 GMT

I thought I'd lost this from 20+ years ago and never could get that look back.
"Rendered" this time around as SVG, but the algorithm is identical to the way I
did it in POV.

Made a few hundred (you've got to love parameterization) and bot them out on X
twice a week. Still enamored with images like this. Some things never change.

[Shay] Re: Still stumped by git branches [82 days 8 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Tue, 13 Jan 2026 22:30:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> I'm trying to learn branches in git, and one bit of advice I've heard,
> from the one video that's been most helpful to me, is that "merging
> locally isn't normally done; instead, changes are pushed and a pull
> request is made."  So I did that, and now my GitHub repo is up-to-date.
> GitHub also assured me that I could delete the branch, so I did that.
>
> But now, I've still got 2 local branches, and my local main[*] does not
> have the changes from the branch.  How do I update the local main if I'm
> not supposed to merge locally?
>
> I have both branches backed up locally, because frankly I don't know
> what I'm doing, and I've corrupted repos before and had to git init or
> git clone from scratch.  It's a hassle maintaining both git and manual
> systems in parallel, but at least I know I won't lose everything on my
> next git stumble.
>
> I've been using git for 4 years now, in part on the promise that it will
> make my life easier.  How can that happen when, after 4 years, this
> software is still utter black magic to me?
>
> [*]"master" using the old terminology.

If you aren't merging into a shared branch (i.e., if you're the only one working
on a project and you aren't updating two branches at once), I wouldn't give it a
second thought. The main idea is to avoid merge commits (which you can easily
end up with anyway if you accept a pr), but you won't have merge commits as a
single user if you

- git checkout some-branch (or) git checkout -b some-new-branch
- make come commits, decide you want to keep them
- git checkout main
- git merge some-branch

The only thing branching is giving you here is a "save point" in case you want
to discard an entire feature. Git, like many things, is as hard as you want to
make it.
-

[Bill Pragnell] Re: Still stumped by git branches [93 days 19 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Fri, 2 Jan 2026 12:15:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> On 2026-01-01 12:00 (-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
> >
> > But now, I've still got 2 local branches, and my local main does not
> > have the changes from the branch.  How do I update the local main if I'm
> > not supposed to merge locally?
>
> I think I figured it out.  You're suppose to do a pull from GitHub after
> you've done the pull request from the branch, right?
>
> git checkout main
> git pull origin main

Yes, once the remote branch is merged into main, you pull main so you have the
changes locally. You can then branch from that going forwards. You can
(optionally) delete the local branch too at that point - any further changes are
best done via a new branch and PR.

I use git for work daily; I'm no wizard but I have a somewhat intuitive feel for
my usual workflow now. I rarely get tangled up any more, and there's endless
examples and tutorials to be googled for help if I do. I remember when I first
started using it, there really was the feeling that I was just reciting
incantations with no obvious connection to reality :)

Bill

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Still stumped by git branches [94 days 13 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Thu, 1 Jan 2026 17:44:14 GMT

On 2026-01-01 12:00 (-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
> 
> But now, I've still got 2 local branches, and my local main does not
> have the changes from the branch.  How do I update the local main if I'm
> not supposed to merge locally?

I think I figured it out.  You're suppose to do a pull from GitHub after
you've done the pull request from the branch, right?

git checkout main
git pull origin main

[Cousin Ricky] Still stumped by git branches [94 days 15 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Thu, 1 Jan 2026 16:00:35 GMT

I'm trying to learn branches in git, and one bit of advice I've heard,
from the one video that's been most helpful to me, is that "merging
locally isn't normally done; instead, changes are pushed and a pull
request is made."  So I did that, and now my GitHub repo is up-to-date.
GitHub also assured me that I could delete the branch, so I did that.

But now, I've still got 2 local branches, and my local main[*] does not
have the changes from the branch.  How do I update the local main if I'm
not supposed to merge locally?

I have both branches backed up locally, because frankly I don't know
what I'm doing, and I've corrupted repos before and had to git init or
git clone from scratch.  It's a hassle maintaining both git and manual
systems in parallel, but at least I know I won't lose everything on my
next git stumble.

I've been using git for 4 years now, in part on the promise that it will
make my life easier.  How can that happen when, after 4 years, this
software is still utter black magic to me?

[*]"master" using the old terminology.

[Leroy] Re: Why Wikipedia can't explain math [149 days 8 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Fri, 7 Nov 2025 22:25:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33y9FMIvcWY
>
> I laughed - in the sorta knowing, crying sorta way.
>
> I have been through all of this, and more.
>
> - BE

I'm not a higher math guy. I had to watch it twice to find out what I didn't
know. It gave me a headache!

Have Fun!

[Bald Eagle] Why Wikipedia can't explain math [150 days 7 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Thu, 6 Nov 2025 23:25:00 GMT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33y9FMIvcWY

I laughed - in the sorta knowing, crying sorta way.

I have been through all of this, and more.

- BE

[Maetes] Instagram [153 days 12 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Nov 2025 18:45:00 GMT

I don't know exactly why, but I just created an Instagram account.

Is there anyone I should follow?

My account: martinseydler

maetes

[Jim Henderson] Re: Wish me luck! Computer just died! [265 days 9 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Mon, 14 Jul 2025 21:35:28 GMT

On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 13:39:22 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> On 2025-07-14 12:54 (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
>>   My main system now has never
>> seen a local Windows installation (only in VMs for the rare times I
>> need something very Windows-specific, like working on a presentation
>> with a Powerpoint template that Libreoffice just won't work with).
> 
> PowerPoint.  In the past few years, I've had to deal with PowerPoint for
> the first time since the 1990s, and I can't blame LibreOffice for not
> wanting to waste time with it.  PowerPoint has become a piece of shit!
> It's alpha-quality software that I can't believe even Microsoft let out
> the door.

Yeah, I really didn't want to use it, but I was asked to give a 
presentation to an organization, and that was the template they gave me.  
It really didn't work at all in LibreOffice, so that was my only option if 
I was going to present.

It worked OK.  I would have preferred Google Slides (which also wouldn't 
open the template properly) or LibreOffice.  Even Microsoft doesn't 
understand their own document formats - they tried to create ooxml 
converters themselves, and couldn't do so successfully.

The entire file format needs to be thrown in the trash, IMO.  Same for 
Word and Excel.

I've got a VM with the suite installed on Win 11 for just those 
circumstances when I have to have it.  But after exclusively using Linux 
on the desktop for over 20 years, I find the situations where I absolutely 
have to use Windows (or MS software at all) to be few and far between.

I'd honestly prefer to use a Mac (which I did for work for almost 10 
years) over Windows.
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Wish me luck! Computer just died! [265 days 13 hours and 42 minutes ago]

Mon, 14 Jul 2025 17:39:22 GMT

On 2025-07-14 12:54 (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
>   My main system now has never 
> seen a local Windows installation (only in VMs for the rare times I need 
> something very Windows-specific, like working on a presentation with a 
> Powerpoint template that Libreoffice just won't work with).

PowerPoint.  In the past few years, I've had to deal with PowerPoint for
the first time since the 1990s, and I can't blame LibreOffice for not
wanting to waste time with it.  PowerPoint has become a piece of shit!
It's alpha-quality software that I can't believe even Microsoft let out
the door.

[Jim Henderson] Re: Wish me luck! Computer just died! [265 days 14 hours and 27 minutes ago]

Mon, 14 Jul 2025 16:54:45 GMT

On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 10:11:37 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> I learned the hard way that they're starting to build Windows computers
> that are incompatible with GNU/Linux dual boot.

Microsoft has never been particularly "friendly" with dual booting non-MS 
operating systems.  "Fast boot" certainly wreaks havoc with trying to dual 
boot, since it's essentially a "suspend to disk" type of functionality 
that bypasses the boot loader.

The introduction of secure boot also created problems, but Linux makers 
have adapted.  I run openSUSE Tumbleweed here, and it is fully supported 
for secure boot, and the modern grub bootloader can be used to dual boot 
Windows (with openSUSE's implementation, it generally will detect Windows 
and add it to the boot menu).

That said, I haven't used a Windows native partition on any of my personal 
PCs in years.  Got a few older machines and laptops that have ancient 
versions of Windows on them "just in case" (because updating firmware on 
those systems required Windows back then).  My main system now has never 
seen a local Windows installation (only in VMs for the rare times I need 
something very Windows-specific, like working on a presentation with a 
Powerpoint template that Libreoffice just won't work with).

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Bald Eagle] Re: Wish me luck! Computer just died! [265 days 15 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Mon, 14 Jul 2025 16:10:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> On 2025-07-08 15:39 (-4), Leroy wrote:
> >
> >  I got a "new" computer from my local dealer. First it has win11 on it. I wasn't
> > happy, but you have to upgrade sooner or later.
>
> I learned the hard
> way that they're starting to build Windows computers that are
> incompatible with GNU/Linux dual boot.

"If the product is digital, then even if it still functions, we'll force you to
replace it via a new product cycle: we no longer support the old operating
system, and since your device is out of date (heh) it can't load the new OS, and
since all the apps now only function with the new OS, your device is useless."

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/last-gasp-landfill-economy


Revolt.


- BE

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Wish me luck! Computer just died! [265 days 17 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Mon, 14 Jul 2025 14:11:38 GMT

On 2025-07-08 15:39 (-4), Leroy wrote:
> 
>  I got a "new" computer from my local dealer. First it has win11 on it. I wasn't
> happy, but you have to upgrade sooner or later.

I'm in the midst of a hostile divorce from Microsoft.  We've been
separated since 2012, but with my latest computer, I learned the hard
way that they're starting to build Windows computers that are
incompatible with GNU/Linux dual boot.  It's time to cut loose; I
haven't really used the Windows partition since the POV-Ray 3.7 release
candidates anyway.  The alimony will be the fonts; I paid for them, I'm
keeping them.

My next computer will have GNU/Linux pre-installed.  It will not be from
a local dealer, because the local dealers only deal with the duopoly.

[Leroy] Re: Wish me luck! Computer just died! [271 days 11 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Tue, 8 Jul 2025 19:40:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> will keep my fingers crossed.
>
>
> regards, jr.

Hope the backlash from the trouble I've had didn't hurt your fingers!

 I got a "new" computer from my local dealer. First it has win11 on it. I wasn't
happy, but you have to upgrade sooner or later. It was 'game' computer and has a
solid state hard drive so I couldn't just drop my drives into it and continue on
like nothing has happened.
 I spent the last week getting things backs to the way I like. Setting up the
display, shortcuts to my many programs, disabling lots win11 stuff. I was right
in the middle of working on an animation when my computer died and I was ready
to start back on it. AND THEN...

 Have you ever ran in to this? I loaded a wave file into Audacity(audio editor)
and the first .5 seconds was silent. Audacity showed the wave form but when
played the first .5 second was silent. While trying to find the exact drop I
selected segments closer & closer to the .5 of a second. I found that no mater
where in the wave you selected it wouldn't play the first .5 of a second of it.
So I went to Audacity forum and ask about this. While waiting for an answer I
tested other audio software and found that everything has that .5 of a second
drop.
 The only audio software that doesn't seem to drop is Anvil. But it has problems
with volume control and playing more than one note at a time.

Tomorrow The computer going back!

[jr] Re: Wish me luck! Computer just died! [278 days 2 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Wed, 2 Jul 2025 04:25:00 GMT

hi,


"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> They don't make 'em like they used to. Yes my new 64 bit win10 just wouldn't
> start. No power so I thought. No motherboard is what I got. So now I got to get
> every thing back to normal. At lease I have all my hard drives with all that
> data.
>
> I'll have fun :{

will keep my fingers crossed.


regards, jr.

[Leroy] Wish me luck! Computer just died! [278 days 4 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Wed, 2 Jul 2025 02:55:00 GMT

They don't make 'em like they used to. Yes my new 64 bit win10 just wouldn't
start. No power so I thought. No motherboard is what I got. So now I got to get
every thing back to normal. At lease I have all my hard drives with all that
data.

I'll have fun :{

[Bald Eagle] Re: Finger-Rotate [279 days 18 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Mon, 30 Jun 2025 13:10:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> I'm the only one who has to look at his left fingers
> when something is to be rotated?

Sometimes I do it in my head, but looking at fingers is "faster" and probably
more reliable  :D

Can't tell you how many people I watch say to themselves "Righty-tighty,
Lefty-loosey."

- BE

[Josh English] Re: Finger-Rotate [280 days 11 hours and 17 minutes ago]

Sun, 29 Jun 2025 20:04:53 GMT

On 6/27/2025 4:27 AM, Maetes wrote:
> I'm the only one who has to look at his left fingers
> when something is to be rotated?
> 
> Bit ashamed,
> Ma
> 
> :)
> 

I do this all the time. No shame in it at all

Uncle Josh

[Maetes] Re: Space Image [282 days 19 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Fri, 27 Jun 2025 11:45:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> This IS about graphics, but there's no CGI involved.
>
>
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/scientist-etienne-klein-posts-webb-telescope-image-star-actually-slice-chorizo-apology/

LOL, really really good.
I love such scientific jokes.

Never forget the evil and always deadly Dihydrogen Monoxide!
https://dhmo.org/facts.html

Ma

[Maetes] Finger-Rotate [282 days 19 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Fri, 27 Jun 2025 11:30:00 GMT

I'm the only one who has to look at his left fingers
when something is to be rotated?

Bit ashamed,
Ma

:)

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Where are all the Povrayers? [284 days 7 hours ago]

Thu, 26 Jun 2025 00:21:33 GMT

On 2025-05-06 15:37 (-4), Maetes wrote:
> I'd like to know who the guys are and where they hang out, who waste as much
> time with Povray as I do.
> (Instead of creating everything faster and more conveniently with the "B-Thing")

My name is Richard Callwood III, and I am from St. Thomas in the U.S.
Virgin Islands, 62 years old, former computer programmer and database
administrator.  I have natural talent in art, though I find that I am
somewhat deficient in the creativity and/or inspiration needed to use it
prolifically.

I have been using POV-Ray since 2003; it's basically been my programming
fix since I left the job market for health reasons.

I tend to create more tools than finished scenes.  (It's that
inspiration problem again.)  I am the 3rd most prolific contributor to
the POV-Ray Object Collection.

I have been slow to start using modelers, though I keep telling myself I
have to learn MakeHuman and the B-thing.  And I often find myself using
POV-Ray for photo editing when I get frustrated trying to figure out how
to do simple tasks with GIMP.

> We could use this opportunity to network better (see socials below), exchange
> code and ideas and perhaps reach our goals faster.

My socials:
https://www.facebook.com/richard.callwood.5
https://bsky.app/profile/rickycallwood.bsky.social
https://www.youtube.com/@RickySTT

I haven't yet grokked the decentralization thing with Mastodon.

[Leroy] Re: clean the computer time! [298 days 9 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Wed, 11 Jun 2025 21:40:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
>
> I have a Dell SK-8135 Keyboard that I bought - - 12 years ago (?) from an
> electronics surplus / recycling place for $5.
>
> It's what I've plugged in to use even with my laptops.
> (Witness my recent frustration with new "improved" key mappings)
>

Never had a keyboard that lasted more than 5 years.

> I usually just whisk it off with a big paintbrush when there's visible
> dust/pollen, and periodically flip it upside down / sideways and give it a good
> shake.
>
> Work keyboards can get layered with dust faster than one could possibly imagine.
> I also remove bits of chocolate and other snacks that the prior shift's slobs
> leave behind.   Not sure that what they actually mean when they want to store
> cookies on your computer.

:)  :)  :)

>
> I used to have an entire box of keyboards that I thought were interesting
> configurations, but it was taking up precious storage space.
>

I still have a few stored away. They are small and don't take up much room. Not
like all those old TV sets or printers everyone gave me to fix or for parts.
They had to go.

> I also have one of these:
> https://www.man-machine.com/product/really-o-cool-keyboard/
>
> plus a version that is flexible and can be rolled up.
>
> They're completely sealed, so I can literally wash them off with soap in the
> sink if I had to. (I think I did when I first got them)
>

I checked that site out, there is some fancy, well made keyboards there. I was
surprised that most still have cords. I haven't had a cord to the keyboard or
mouse in years.


> For really grimy keyboards, I'll douse them with 91% isopropyl alcohol,
> violently shake them side-to-side, and then drain and air dry in front of a fan
> or outside in the sun.
>
> Or I just throw them out and use another free keyboard  :D
>

> I've given free replacement keyboards to 2 automotive shops - because you can
> imagine what THOSE keyboards looked like...

For a while I worked at a small engine shop. I would never bring my computer to
work! And the boss man was to cheap to get one. I think I still have grease
under my fingernails :(

>
>
> - BW

[Bald Eagle] Re: clean the computer time! [299 days 13 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Tue, 10 Jun 2025 17:40:00 GMT

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I just cleaned my computers today and was wondering. How often and how you clean
> yours. Today I just use the can air and a paint brush to knock the dust off.
>
> Have fun!

I have a Dell SK-8135 Keyboard that I bought - - 12 years ago (?) from an
electronics surplus / recycling place for $5.

It's what I've plugged in to use even with my laptops.
(Witness my recent frustration with new "improved" key mappings)

I usually just whisk it off with a big paintbrush when there's visible
dust/pollen, and periodically flip it upside down / sideways and give it a good
shake.

Work keyboards can get layered with dust faster than one could possibly imagine.
I also remove bits of chocolate and other snacks that the prior shift's slobs
leave behind.   Not sure that what they actually mean when they want to store
cookies on your computer.

I used to have an entire box of keyboards that I thought were interesting
configurations, but it was taking up precious storage space.

I also have one of these:
https://www.man-machine.com/product/really-o-cool-keyboard/

plus a version that is flexible and can be rolled up.

They're completely sealed, so I can literally wash them off with soap in the
sink if I had to. (I think I did when I first got them)

For really grimy keyboards, I'll douse them with 91% isopropyl alcohol,
violently shake them side-to-side, and then drain and air dry in front of a fan
or outside in the sun.

Or I just throw them out and use another free keyboard  :D

I've given free replacement keyboards to 2 automotive shops - because you can
imagine what THOSE keyboards looked like...

- BW

[Leroy] Re: clean the computer time! [299 days 14 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Tue, 10 Jun 2025 17:05:00 GMT

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I just cleaned my computers today and was wondering. How often and how you clean
> yours. Today I just use the can air and a paint brush to knock the dust off.
>
> Have fun!

I forgot to say just how often I do my cleaning! Once a Year.
Used to do a good job of it. Remove hard drives and heat sinks then take Q-tips
and swab everything down. Even so I didn't always do a good job. I had bought a
high end video card, at the first years cleaning I mistakenly thought that its
cooling fan was a big capacitor it had so much dust and dirt packed into the fan
cover. Needless to say the video card didn't make it to year two.

Have Fun!

[Mr] Re: Where are all the Povrayers? [299 days 23 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Tue, 10 Jun 2025 08:00:00 GMT

> Povray-Strengths

-This community
-The fact that my day job is in a demanding 3D field.
-Always learning

> Povray-Weaknesses
- always learning... this delays achieving
- I don't know C/C++

> Socials
https://mastodon.art/@povable
https://www.facebook.com/povable
https://extensions.blender.org/add-ons/povable/

Hi from France,
Mr

[Josh English] Re: Where are all the Povrayers? [300 days 10 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Mon, 9 Jun 2025 20:26:34 GMT

On 5/6/2025 2:40 PM, tTh wrote:
> On 5/6/25 21:37, Maetes wrote:
> 
>> We could use this opportunity to network better (see socials below), 
>> exchange
>> code and ideas and perhaps reach our goals faster.
> 
>  Â Â  I feel quite alone on the Mastodon network...
> 
> 
Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 
@tth### [at] mastodontetaneutralnet
> 
I posted a few things to Mastodon and Pixelfed, but right now the bulk 
of it is some watercolor I've taken up for the traditional no good reason.

@unclejosh@wandering.shop

Josh

[jr] Re: clean the computer time! [300 days 19 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Mon, 9 Jun 2025 12:15:00 GMT

hi,

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I just cleaned my computers today and was wondering. How often and how you clean
> yours. Today I just use the can air and a paint brush to knock the dust off.

reading this I realised it has been a while :-).  I use the hoover, lowest
setting, with a brush attachment, four/five times a year or so (no shutdown,
outside/case only).

regards, jr.

[Jim Henderson] Re: clean the computer time! [301 days 5 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Mon, 9 Jun 2025 01:50:57 GMT

On Sun,  8 Jun 2025 13:57:54 EDT, Leroy wrote:

> I just cleaned my computers today and was wondering. How often and how
> you clean yours. Today I just use the can air and a paint brush to knock
> the dust off.

I did my newest for the first time a couple weekends ago (along with my 
entire office, PS5, and other stuff in here).

The newest system was purchased in 2022.  I don't think I cleaned it even 
when we moved - but it was the first time I had the case open since I 
purchased it.

Fortunately, the air intake has a very fine fabric mesh over it, so the 
inside wasn't actually too bad.  The mesh, however, was almost completely 
white/grey with dust (it's actually a black mesh).

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Leroy] clean the computer time! [301 days 13 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Sun, 8 Jun 2025 18:00:00 GMT

I just cleaned my computers today and was wondering. How often and how you clean
yours. Today I just use the can air and a paint brush to knock the dust off.

Have fun!

[Lars Rohwedder] _:-D [313 days 7 hours and 38 minutes ago]

Tue, 27 May 2025 23:43:52 GMT

Ewwâ€¦ I am a C++ software developer from Hamburg, Germany, and I'm
using 
povray since ~2000.

I still kept some of my early renderings online, the file dates are from 
2004â€¦2009, but some of the images and their scene files might be even

older. If you might have a look:

https://roker.spamt.net/pov/  (Yeah, AI grabbers, eat this!)

Maybe I should update the thumbnail & gallery generating script â€“
which 
is from the same era, hence HTML 4.01 â€“ so it shows image/file 
timestamps. ;-)

	Lars R.

[Francois Labreque] Re: Where are all the Povrayers? [325 days 7 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Fri, 16 May 2025 00:17:00 GMT

Le 2025-05-06 à 15:37, Maetes a écrit :
> I'd like to know who the guys are and where they hang out, who waste as much
> time with Povray as I do.
> (Instead of creating everything faster and more conveniently with the "B-Thing")
>

A long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, I used to spend lots 
of time on POV, but nowadays, free time is mostly spent yelling at the 
kids to do their homework, clean their rooms, or go to bed.

My 12 year old is already much better with the B-Thing than I am with 
POV, but old habits die hard...

> My name is Martin Seydler, I am from Cologne/Germany, half a century old,
> professional programmer for websites, PHP, HTML, Javascript.
> My English is in need of improvement, in fact I translate most of my texts with
> online tools.
>
My name is François Labrèque.  Mid-fifties.  Currently living in a 
secret lair in the suburbs of Montreal, Canada, where I am plotting 
taking over the world.

Studied to be a mechanical engineer, but took a wrong turn and ended up 
doing IT stuff (mostly networking) for the last 30 years.

There was a time where I could write programs in C or C++, but nowadays, 
I rarely have to do anything more complicated than a few Excel formulas.


-- 
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/*    flabreque    */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/*        @        */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/*   gmail.com     */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }

[Jim Henderson] Re: Where are all the Povrayers? [333 days 9 hours and 47 minutes ago]

Wed, 7 May 2025 21:34:04 GMT

On Tue,  6 May 2025 15:37:36 EDT, Maetes wrote:

> I'd like to know who the guys are and where they hang out, who waste as
> much time with Povray as I do.
> (Instead of creating everything faster and more conveniently with the
> "B-Thing")

I've been a user of POV-Ray for .... damn, 35 years now.  I first 
encountered it in college (I was an aspiring engineering student with a 
386dx33 with a math coprocessor).

I haven't really done much with it lately - it comes and goes for me, like 
most people (I have so many technology interests that they all phase in 
and out at different times). Back in the day, I did most of my modeling 
with Moray.

> My name is Martin Seydler, I am from Cologne/Germany, half a century
> old, professional programmer for websites, PHP, HTML, Javascript.
> My English is in need of improvement, in fact I translate most of my
> texts with online tools.

Your English (or the translator you're using) is very good. :)  I'm Jim, 
currently living about an hour outside Seattle, Washington.  I'm in my 
mid-50s, and professionally I have done a lot of things over the years - 
from IT work (early in my career) to technical writing, training delivery/
development, and professional certification program management.  Today I 
consult on certification development and technical training projects.

> Povray-Strengths - Programming - Animations - Building oversized
> packages/projects that will never be finished

These days there probably aren't many strengths with POV-Ray in my 
toolbox, largely due to skills attrition.  Over the course of my life, 
though, I've learned a lot of different programming languages, so getting 
back into SDL probably wouldn't be difficult for me.

> Povray-Weaknesses - Modelling - Textures - Details + Little Things

Textures, definitely for me.  I'm not particularly strong with SDL because 
historically I've used visual modeling tools (Blender is my tool of choice 
now, but I don't tend to render those images with POV-Ray - I have a GPU 
that can do good high-quality renders with Cycles instead for my needs).

Jim

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[ingo] Re: Where are all the Povrayers? [333 days 18 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Wed, 7 May 2025 13:05:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> I'd like to know who the guys are and where they hang out, who waste as much
> time with Povray as I do.

Moin Martin,

just like Thomas a neighbour of you from the west.

The thing is, I've never wasted time with POV-Ray ;)

regarding all the social channels, this news group is just fine. The one thing I
don't like on the "modern web" is the amount of fragmentation in these things.

ingo

[Thomas de Groot] Re: Where are all the Povrayers? [334 days and 2 minutes ago]

Wed, 7 May 2025 07:19:15 GMT

Op 06/05/2025 om 21:37 schreef Maetes:
> I'd like to know who the guys are and where they hang out, who waste as much
> time with Povray as I do.
> (Instead of creating everything faster and more conveniently with the "B-Thing")
> 
> We could use this opportunity to network better (see socials below), exchange
> code and ideas and perhaps reach our goals faster.
> 
I am from the Netherlands where I was born (almost) 79 years ago.

I have been a heavy POV-Ray user since the late nineties but for a 
couple of years now my activity has gradually decreased and is 
indefinitely on hold at the moment. However, I still love to visit these 
newsgroups regularly and see what is happening. :}

Greetings to all!

-- 
Thomas

[Leroy] Re: Where are all the Povrayers? [334 days 7 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Tue, 6 May 2025 23:40:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> I'd like to know who the guys are and where they hang out, who waste as much
> time with Povray as I do.
> (Instead of creating everything faster and more conveniently with the "B-Thing")
>
> We could use this opportunity to network better (see socials below), exchange
> code and ideas and perhaps reach our goals faster.
>
> My name is Martin Seydler, I am from Cologne/Germany, half a century old,
> professional programmer for websites, PHP, HTML, Javascript.
> My English is in need of improvement, in fact I translate most of my texts with
> online tools.

Your English is fine. What I know of German is all wrong! So I've been told.

>
> Sometimes I don't povray at all for months/years, and then (like right now) I
> can't keep my hands off it, even though I really have more important real-life
> things to do.
> I don't create realistic images, I mostly work on space-related animations.
> I just like it when something moves, even if it looks a bit comic-like or ugly.

I'm the same I spent a whole month on a simple realistic scene one time and it
still look fake.

>
> Povray-Strengths
> - Programming
> - Animations
> - Building oversized packages/projects that will never be finished
>

Was going to write something here but couldn't think of any thing.

> Povray-Weaknesses
> - Modelling
> - Textures
> - Details + Little Things
>
> Blog, under (re-) construction, with (even) more Povray inside soon
> https://www.maetes.com/en/
>
> Socials
> https://bsky.app/profile/martinseydler.bsky.social
> https://www.youtube.com/@mates3381
>
> I hope for many outings.
>
> Greetings from Cologne,
> Maetes

Sorry! No time to talk got a new project under way.

[tTh] Re: Where are all the Povrayers? [334 days 9 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Tue, 6 May 2025 21:40:18 GMT

On 5/6/25 21:37, Maetes wrote:

> We could use this opportunity to network better (see socials below), exchange
> code and ideas and perhaps reach our goals faster.

    I feel quite alone on the Mastodon network...

         @tth### [at] mastodontetaneutralnet

-- 
**                                                            **
*                      tTh des Bourtoulots                     *
*                  http://maison.tth.netlib.re/                *
**                                                            **

[Bald Eagle] Re: Where are all the Povrayers? [334 days 10 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Tue, 6 May 2025 21:15:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> I'd like to know who the guys are and where they hang out, who waste as much
> time with Povray as I do.

There's a Discord server that a guy set up.
https://discord.com/channels/1314335502870118423/1319503858078318592

Also there's a liberachat IRC channel.

Maybe there's more.

There are a few university professors who see the value in using POV-Ray.

It would be great to recruit people to post HERE more.

> Povray-Strengths
> - Programming
> - Animations
> - Building oversized packages/projects that will never be finished

Welcome aboard.  There are a few like-minded individuals who'd like to kick
start some collaborative work.  We can't do _everything_ by ourselves . . .

- BW

[Maetes] Where are all the Povrayers? [334 days 11 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Tue, 6 May 2025 19:40:00 GMT

I'd like to know who the guys are and where they hang out, who waste as much
time with Povray as I do.
(Instead of creating everything faster and more conveniently with the "B-Thing")

We could use this opportunity to network better (see socials below), exchange
code and ideas and perhaps reach our goals faster.

My name is Martin Seydler, I am from Cologne/Germany, half a century old,
professional programmer for websites, PHP, HTML, Javascript.
My English is in need of improvement, in fact I translate most of my texts with
online tools.

Sometimes I don't povray at all for months/years, and then (like right now) I
can't keep my hands off it, even though I really have more important real-life
things to do.
I don't create realistic images, I mostly work on space-related animations.
I just like it when something moves, even if it looks a bit comic-like or ugly.

Povray-Strengths
- Programming
- Animations
- Building oversized packages/projects that will never be finished

Povray-Weaknesses
- Modelling
- Textures
- Details + Little Things

Blog, under (re-) construction, with (even) more Povray inside soon
https://www.maetes.com/en/

Socials
https://bsky.app/profile/martinseydler.bsky.social
https://www.youtube.com/@mates3381

I hope for many outings.

Greetings from Cologne,
Maetes

[Maetes] Re: Northern Lights [336 days 19 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Sun, 4 May 2025 11:55:00 GMT

Josh English <Jos### [at] joshuarenglishcom> wrote:
> I live in Portland Oregon and for the first time in my life I saw the
> northern lights and I kept coming back to the old standard "how did God
> define this media?"

I was also lucky, on the same night from May 10th to 11th.

I took photos from my balcony, in the middle of light-polluted Cologne/Germany,
with a cheap Samsung-Smartphone.

See:
https://www.maetes.com/en/astro/aurora-may-2024-cologne

Ma

[Leroy] 1 is the lonliest number [341 days 13 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Tue, 29 Apr 2025 18:15:00 GMT

The free hit counter on my website just died. So I got another one. But it
started all over at 1. The old count was something like 20000. So I need
everyone to go visit my site at leroyw.byethost15.com over & over & over again
:)

Have Fun!

[Leroy] Re: Keyboard [352 days 13 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Fri, 18 Apr 2025 18:10:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Someone please tell me what genius decided - without asking anyone - to make the
> arrow keys marked HOME, END, PgUp, and PgDn only move one character, or to the
> end of every "word", and require Fn.
> Did _anyone_ in all of the computer userverse actually ASK for this?
>
> Is there any way to undo this latest f***ery and revert to what has long been
> the standard default keyboard behaviour?
>
> The usual keys are now all the way over on the number pad.
>
> We have passed peak improvement, and are hurtling down the accelerating negative
> incline of "stupid meddling".
>
> We're also enduring the agony of the "landfill economy"
>
> https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/last-gasp-landfill-economy
>
> "...when you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It is only painful for
> others. The same applies when you are stupid."
>
> - BE

Blame Windows they have been doing "stupid meddling" since the start!

[Bald Eagle] Keyboard [352 days 16 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Fri, 18 Apr 2025 14:25:00 GMT

Someone please tell me what genius decided - without asking anyone - to make the
arrow keys marked HOME, END, PgUp, and PgDn only move one character, or to the
end of every "word", and require Fn.
Did _anyone_ in all of the computer userverse actually ASK for this?

Is there any way to undo this latest f***ery and revert to what has long been
the standard default keyboard behaviour?

The usual keys are now all the way over on the number pad.

We have passed peak improvement, and are hurtling down the accelerating negative
incline of "stupid meddling".

We're also enduring the agony of the "landfill economy"

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/last-gasp-landfill-economy

"...when you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It is only painful for
others. The same applies when you are stupid."

- BE

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Tek's website has been repurposed! [383 days 14 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Tue, 18 Mar 2025 16:36:57 GMT

On 2025-03-18 02:34 (-4), William F Pokorny wrote:
> On 3/17/25 00:13, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>> http://evilsuperbrain.com/
>>
> 
> With that subject line I'm averse to visiting the site to see what
> happened. :-)
> 
> Did Tek re-purpose it or did someone else pick up the domain name (which
> is a good one)? Should we now stay away for POV-Ray purposes?

It's safe, but it has nothing to do with POV-Ray.  I do not know if Tek
did it, but the lapsing domain name hypothesis seems most likely.

Tek's website has not been functional for some time now, and I just
checked it to see if there was any update.  It now redirects to a
Wikipedia article about an obscenely wealthy evil non-so-super-brain who
is from the same country as Mark Shuttleworth (see "Reach for the Stars"
in the POV-Ray Hall of Fame), but who probably couldn't figure out how
to get through the POV-Ray tutorials.

[William F Pokorny] Re: Tek's website has been repurposed! [384 days and 47 minutes ago]

Tue, 18 Mar 2025 06:34:22 GMT

On 3/17/25 00:13, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> http://evilsuperbrain.com/
> 

With that subject line I'm averse to visiting the site to see what 
happened. :-)

Did Tek re-purpose it or did someone else pick up the domain name (which 
is a good one)? Should we now stay away for POV-Ray purposes?

Bill P.

[Cousin Ricky] Tek's website has been repurposed! [385 days 3 hours and 8 minutes ago]

Mon, 17 Mar 2025 04:13:32 GMT

http://evilsuperbrain.com/

[MvGulik] Re: ... nevermind. [391 days 18 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Mon, 10 Mar 2025 12:30:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Search for "Bordered Characters" by Dave Blandston.
> I think there was at least a v1.4

Aha, thanks. Will check it out.
(Apparent last version: 1.8 (25 Oct 2017).)

[Leroy] Re: ... nevermind. [398 days 10 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Mar 2025 21:05:00 GMT

"MvGulik" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Thought of dumping some post-editing workarounds for adding some text outlining
> to text. (auto-batch processing where the text part is a fixed color. And Murphy
> always tosses in one objects close to the used text color.)
>
> But ... While writing that the motivation took a nose-dive.
>
> Guess its kinda similar to the social nose-dive the world has taken. And
> continues to take.
>
> Never mind Global warming, or that one in a million*N chance of some nasty
> astronomical event. MAN kind seems to be dead-set to keep that honor to itself.
>
> (How selfish, in more ways than one.)
>
> But that again every new generation has of course the total freedom of making
> the same historical mistakes again and again.
>
> (..., what?, "Responsibility". Sure, but only if its economical of course.)
>
> Probably just a side affect of natural evolution in progress.
> (Fermi paradox & Great Filter also come to mind)
>
>
> Yea ... Think I feel a bit better now. Stupid hairless apes.

Hay!! I'm not hairless! My hair is just fine :) :) ;)

[Bald Eagle] Re: ... nevermind. [398 days 19 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Mar 2025 11:55:00 GMT

"MvGulik" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Thought of dumping some post-editing workarounds for adding some text outlining
> to text.

I'm headed out to work, but:

Search for "Bordered Characters" by Dave Blandston.
I think there was at least a v1.4

https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3Cweb.5778dbc1c7b3956a71b844040%40news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=44489
2&toff=1100&mtop=409129&moff=1

[MvGulik] ... nevermind. [398 days 20 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Mar 2025 10:40:00 GMT

Thought of dumping some post-editing workarounds for adding some text outlining
to text. (auto-batch processing where the text part is a fixed color. And Murphy
always tosses in one objects close to the used text color.)

But ... While writing that the motivation took a nose-dive.

Guess its kinda similar to the social nose-dive the world has taken. And
continues to take.

Never mind Global warming, or that one in a million*N chance of some nasty
astronomical event. MAN kind seems to be dead-set to keep that honor to itself.

(How selfish, in more ways than one.)

But that again every new generation has of course the total freedom of making
the same historical mistakes again and again.

(..., what?, "Responsibility". Sure, but only if its economical of course.)

Probably just a side affect of natural evolution in progress.
(Fermi paradox & Great Filter also come to mind)


Yea ... Think I feel a bit better now. Stupid hairless apes.

[jr] moving the world [424 days 10 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Wed, 5 Feb 2025 20:45:00 GMT

hi,

another one of my occasional political "fits".  the Orange Manbaby (as one of
our newspapers has it) is seeking attention again, today (when meeting with a
war criminal).

enjoy, jr.

[yesbird] Gravity toy [508 days 3 hours and 13 minutes ago]

Thu, 14 Nov 2024 04:08:13 GMT

Hi, all !

Can't stop playing with this fantastic toy - colorful particles with
attraction poles:
https://kodub.itch.io/dustsim

For best effects powerful GPU is required.
Now thinking about POV-based implementation of something similar.
--
YB

[Bald Eagle] Re: Assumed_gamma and .gray [514 days 18 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Thu, 7 Nov 2024 13:15:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Op 07/11/2024 om 00:09 schreef Cousin Ricky:
> > On 2021-01-21 17:49 (-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
> >> On 2017-01-21 3:53 AM (-4), Thomas de Groot wrote:
> >>> On 20-1-2017 22:04, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> >>>> On 2017-01-20 03:53 AM (-4), Thomas de Groot wrote:
> >>>>> On 20-1-2017 5:35, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> #macro DotGray (Color)
> >>>>>>    #local C = color Color;
> >>>>>>    (0.2126 * C.red + 0.7152 * C.green + 0.0722 * C.blue) // ITU-R
> >>>>>> BT.709
> >>>>>> #end
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [scribbles with pencil on a greasy scrap of wrapping paper, and
> >>>>> tacks it
> >>>>> to an overweight folder]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Done!
> >>>>
> >>>> Ah, and fortunately for those of you not under Donald Trump's
> >>>> jurisdiction, this version also works:
> >>>>
> >>>> #macro DotGrey (Colour)
> >>>>    #local C = colour Colour;
> >>>>    (0.2126 * C.red + 0.7152 * C.green + 0.0722 * C.blue) // ITU-R BT.709
> >>>> #end

Multiple Arithmetical Gray Algorithms!

[Thomas de Groot] Re: Assumed_gamma and .gray [514 days 19 hours and 58 minutes ago]

Thu, 7 Nov 2024 11:23:26 GMT

Op 07/11/2024 om 00:09 schreef Cousin Ricky:
> On 2021-01-21 17:49 (-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
>> On 2017-01-21 3:53 AM (-4), Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>> On 20-1-2017 22:04, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>>>> On 2017-01-20 03:53 AM (-4), Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>>>> On 20-1-2017 5:35, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> #macro DotGray (Color)
>>>>>>  Â  #local C = color Color;
>>>>>>  Â  (0.2126 * C.red + 0.7152 * C.green + 0.0722 * C.blue) // ITU-R
>>>>>> BT.709
>>>>>> #end
>>>>>
>>>>> [scribbles with pencil on a greasy scrap of wrapping paper, and
>>>>> tacks it
>>>>> to an overweight folder]
>>>>>
>>>>> Done!
>>>>
>>>> Ah, and fortunately for those of you not under Donald Trump's
>>>> jurisdiction, this version also works:
>>>>
>>>> #macro DotGrey (Colour)
>>>>  Â  #local C = colour Colour;
>>>>  Â  (0.2126 * C.red + 0.7152 * C.green + 0.0722 * C.blue) // ITU-R
BT.709
>>>> #end
>>>>
>>>
>>> Obviously. I shall use the other one in solidarity.
>>
>> You are hereby released from your solidarity pledge.
> 
> Uh...
> 
Yeah...

-- 
Thomas

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Assumed_gamma and .gray [515 days 8 hours and 12 minutes ago]

Wed, 6 Nov 2024 23:09:24 GMT

On 2021-01-21 17:49 (-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
> On 2017-01-21 3:53 AM (-4), Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 20-1-2017 22:04, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>>> On 2017-01-20 03:53 AM (-4), Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>>> On 20-1-2017 5:35, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> #macro DotGray (Color)
>>>>> Â  #local C = color Color;
>>>>> Â  (0.2126 * C.red + 0.7152 * C.green + 0.0722 * C.blue) // ITU-R
>>>>> BT.709
>>>>> #end
>>>>
>>>> [scribbles with pencil on a greasy scrap of wrapping paper, and
>>>> tacks it
>>>> to an overweight folder]
>>>>
>>>> Done!
>>>
>>> Ah, and fortunately for those of you not under Donald Trump's
>>> jurisdiction, this version also works:
>>>
>>> #macro DotGrey (Colour)
>>> Â  #local C = colour Colour;
>>> Â  (0.2126 * C.red + 0.7152 * C.green + 0.0722 * C.blue) // ITU-R BT.709
>>> #end
>>>
>>
>> Obviously. I shall use the other one in solidarity.
> 
> You are hereby released from your solidarity pledge.

Uh...

[tTh] un petit troll LinuxFr ? [516 days 15 hours and 17 minutes ago]

Tue, 5 Nov 2024 16:04:39 GMT

Bonjour

Un petit lien postÃ© dans le cÃ©lÃ¨bre site DaLFP
gÃ©nÃ¨re tranquillement
son petit flot de messages :)

https://linuxfr.org/users/orfenor/liens/apres-3-4-ans-d-interruption-le-developpement-de-pov-ray-reprend


-- 
+++
                      tTh des Bourtoulots
+++

[jr] Re: photography on steroids [517 days and 46 minutes ago]

Tue, 5 Nov 2024 06:35:00 GMT

hi,

yesbird <sya### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> On 04/11/2024 15:21, jr wrote:
> > </grin>  what are the chances ?!
>
> Sorry, what chances ?
>
> > looks pretty neat, I trust you have a Darth Vader costume to hand, too. ;-)
>
> Oh no, I am prefer light side of the force !
> --
> YB

see inbox.


regards, jr.

[yesbird] Re: photography on steroids [517 days 7 hours and 43 minutes ago]

Mon, 4 Nov 2024 23:38:42 GMT

On 04/11/2024 15:21, jr wrote:
> </grin>  what are the chances ?!

Sorry, what chances ?

> looks pretty neat, I trust you have a Darth Vader costume to hand, too. ;-)

Oh no, I am prefer light side of the force !
--
YB

[jr] Re: photography on steroids [517 days 18 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Mon, 4 Nov 2024 12:25:00 GMT

hi,

yesbird <sya### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> On 03/11/2024 08:46, jr wrote:
> > am awed by some of the photos by D.Gilliver, ...
> Very interesting idea, especially taking into account my present
> electronic project - pixel light saber based on LED stripes.

</grin>  what are the chances ?!

> It's almost completed and now know what to do with it :).

looks pretty neat, I trust you have a Darth Vader costume to hand, too. ;-)

regards, jr.  (may the force be with you)

[yesbird] Re: photography on steroids [518 days 8 hours and 42 minutes ago]

Sun, 3 Nov 2024 22:39:00 GMT

On 03/11/2024 08:46, jr wrote:
> am awed by some of the photos by D.Gilliver, in this write up:
> <www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyv7prndj0qo>

Very interesting idea, especially taking into account my present
electronic project - pixel light saber based on LED stripes.

It's almost completed and now know what to do with it :).
--
YB

[jr] photography on steroids [519 days 1 hour and 31 minutes ago]

Sun, 3 Nov 2024 05:50:00 GMT

hi,

am awed by some of the photos by D.Gilliver, in this write up:
<www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyv7prndj0qo>


enjoy, jr.

[Leroy] Re: I've Got New internet connection [605 days 10 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Thu, 8 Aug 2024 20:55:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Op 08/08/2024 om 01:48 schreef Leroy:
> Very good! :-)
>
> Maybe the povray.off-topic ng is not the best location to promote your
> site (I am an old fan) as it is far from "off-topic" ;-) but I do not
> precisely know where then (povray.general?). Maybe we should have a
> dedicated newsgroup for users' POV-Ray sites...
>
> --
> Thomas

Thanks!

I always go to 'Quick Overview' in Newsgroups that way I don't miss anything I
hope.

I would Like a dedicated place for websites. It would nice to know when other
people upgrade.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: I've Got New internet connection [606 days and 46 minutes ago]

Thu, 8 Aug 2024 06:35:07 GMT

Op 08/08/2024 om 01:48 schreef Leroy:
> "Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> So watch out! I'm back baby!
>> Have fun! I will...
> 
> I've got StackedPrism.pov in a zip on my website
> and while at was at I upgraded PolPrm4
> 
> http://leroyw.byethost15.com/
> 
> one down!
> two down!
> 
> 

Very good! :-)

Maybe the povray.off-topic ng is not the best location to promote your 
site (I am an old fan) as it is far from "off-topic" ;-) but I do not 
precisely know where then (povray.general?). Maybe we should have a 
dedicated newsgroup for users' POV-Ray sites...

-- 
Thomas

[Leroy] Re: I've Got New internet connection [606 days 7 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Wed, 7 Aug 2024 23:50:00 GMT

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> So watch out! I'm back baby!
> Have fun! I will...

I've got StackedPrism.pov in a zip on my website
and while at was at I upgraded PolPrm4

http://leroyw.byethost15.com/

one down!
two down!

[Hj Malthaner] Re: Raysnail 0.1.2 [606 days 11 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Wed, 7 Aug 2024 20:10:03 GMT

On 7/25/24 17:36, Hj. Malthaner wrote:
> I've been working some more on the raysnail

And again, some more work done. The raysnail got better at 
transformations and CSG operations, and it now also supports PovRay SDL 
#declare and #while directives. One cannot #declare everything yet, that 
PovRay allows, but scalar values, vectors and object definitions are 
supported now.

Attached, there an example of a while loop. It was created by this SDL file:

https://github.com/Varkalandar/raysnail/blob/a2e24b1845f6686684b5e08b5e0106648b7aa7b0/sdl/declares.sdl

While I'm quite happy with the results, I think there is still about 90% 
missing to really render existing PovRay scenes with the raysnail.

[Leroy] I've Got New internet connection [607 days 8 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Tue, 6 Aug 2024 23:05:00 GMT

I finally got high speed internet through Tmobile.
So maybe I'll post here a little more often.(if I have anything to say)
Now I have my work cut out for me. I have a lot of things to do.
I have a backlog of files that need to go to my website.
Videos to watch.
Web surf for programs for my 64bit windows.

So watch out! I'm back baby!
Have fun! I will...

[Hj Malthaner] Re: Raysnail 0.1.2 [615 days 12 hours and 23 minutes ago]

Mon, 29 Jul 2024 18:58:26 GMT

On 7/25/24 17:36, Hj. Malthaner wrote:
 > I've been working some more on the raysnail

... it now supports PovRay SDL syntax to translate, rotate and scale 
objects, and the 10 parameter quadric object type. I still have to work 
on regular cone and cylinder SDL support.

[Hj Malthaner] Raysnail 0.1.2 [619 days 15 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Thu, 25 Jul 2024 15:36:15 GMT

I've been working some more on the raysnail, lots of basic 
infrastructure to do, little to show. I could extend the compatibility 
with PovRay scene files a little bit, CSG intersections and differences 
are supported now, even if only with two objects each.

The translate operation should work, rotate only for the y axis (the 
other two axes soon to be supported too).

The parser now supports finish blocks, but only reads the reflection 
item from it, the basic variant with just a float.

The attached render was created with this SDL file:
https://github.com/Varkalandar/raysnail/blob/72908892fba87898477324814a5515207d8b8755/sdl/csg.sdl

[Bill Pragnell] Re: The Raysnail - WIP, a probability based rayt... [625 days 16 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Fri, 19 Jul 2024 14:30:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> The revision.txt file for v3.8-beta2 has this about stochastic renders:
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> POV-Ray v3.8.0-alpha.9841009
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Commit 8c1eb72b on 2018-09-17 by Christoph Lipka
>
>      Add anti-aliasing mode 3 (port from UberPOV).
>
>      Also add some bits of infrastructure for future optimization and better
>      co-operation of various stochastic features like jittered area lights,
>      jittered media sampling, subsurface light transport and the like.

Ah yes I think this is just the stochastic sampling, not the modified radiosity
algorithm as a whole. I'm sure it improves things considerably but I don't think
it's what I was referring to!

That said, I should probably try out 3.8 at some point and see what's new for
myself :)

Bill

[Thomas de Groot] Re: The Raysnail - WIP, a probability based rayt... [625 days 18 hours and 54 minutes ago]

Fri, 19 Jul 2024 12:26:56 GMT

The revision.txt file for v3.8-beta2 has this about stochastic renders:


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
POV-Ray v3.8.0-alpha.9841009
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Commit 8c1eb72b on 2018-09-17 by Christoph Lipka

     Add anti-aliasing mode 3 (port from UberPOV).

     Also add some bits of infrastructure for future optimization and better
     co-operation of various stochastic features like jittered area lights,
     jittered media sampling, subsurface light transport and the like.


Hope this helps.

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: The Raysnail - WIP, a probability based rayt... [625 days 22 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Fri, 19 Jul 2024 08:26:16 GMT

Op 18-7-2024 om 19:49 schreef Bill Pragnell:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> Even better, 'stochastic' is also supported by version 3.8! I generally use:
>>
>> +am3 +a0.01 +ac0.90 +r3
>>
>> and in the radiosity block a count between 10 and 50
>> 
>> varying +a, +ac and +r values increases/decreases the stochastic quality
>> (and render time!).
> 
> Are we talking about the same thing here?
> 
> I was referring to the unbiased purely stochastic version of radiosity, which
> was a significant change to the algorithm; I was under the impression that this
> wouldn't end up in main POV-Ray in the form it was implemented in UberPOV. Maybe
> I missed something, is this in v3.8 now, or are you referring to improvements to
> sampling alone?
> 

Ah. This I do not know for sure. I am using the 'latest' v3.8-beta2, and 
as far as I can remember, the use of the stochastic implementation there 
is identical(?) to what was implemented in UperPOV. I am afraid this is 
all I can remember from those days, back in 2014, if I am correct. Using 
+am3 automatically switches on the stochastic render and I suppose 
(wrongly maybe) that this directly influences the radiosity, but if this 
then is a [quote] unbiased purely stochastic version of radiosity 
[/quote] I do not know indeed. This would need the comment of an expert 
(Christoph Lipka! where are you?). All I know is that it works fine 
as-is, and I have been using it ever since with v3.8-beta or v3.8-beta2.

Sorry for not being able to be more specific. :-[

-- 
Thomas

[Bill Pragnell] Re: The Raysnail - WIP, a probability based rayt... [626 days 13 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Thu, 18 Jul 2024 17:55:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Even better, 'stochastic' is also supported by version 3.8! I generally use:
>
> +am3 +a0.01 +ac0.90 +r3
>
> and in the radiosity block a count between 10 and 50
>
> varying +a, +ac and +r values increases/decreases the stochastic quality
> (and render time!).

Are we talking about the same thing here?

I was referring to the unbiased purely stochastic version of radiosity, which
was a significant change to the algorithm; I was under the impression that this
wouldn't end up in main POV-Ray in the form it was implemented in UberPOV. Maybe
I missed something, is this in v3.8 now, or are you referring to improvements to
sampling alone?

Bill

[Thomas de Groot] Re: The Raysnail - WIP, a probability based rayt... [626 days 16 hours and 7 minutes ago]

Thu, 18 Jul 2024 15:14:48 GMT

Op 18-7-2024 om 16:32 schreef Hj. Malthaner:
> On 7/18/24 15:38, Bill Pragnell wrote:
> 
>> Are you aware of the UberPOV fork?
>>
>> https://github.com/UberPOV/UberPOV
> 
> Now I am. Well, I had heard of UberPOV before but never really looked 
> into it ...
> 
>> It's based on POV-Ray 3.7 and hasn't really seen any development for 
>> some time,
>> but one of its notable features is stochastic global illumination as an
>> extension to radiosity. I still use it quite often because I think it 
>> produces
>> much better results than the standard radiosity with almost no tweaking
>> required.
> 
> That matches my own impression and why I wanted something with global 
> illumination while still supporting PovRay SDL. This is quite 
> interesting, thank you for the link!
> 
> 

Even better, 'stochastic' is also supported by version 3.8! I generally use:

+am3 +a0.01 +ac0.90 +r3

and in the radiosity block a count between 10 and 50

varying +a, +ac and +r values increases/decreases the stochastic quality 
(and render time!).

THere must be some documentation by clipka but I am unable to find it 
presently, sorry.


-- 
Thomas

[Hj Malthaner] Re: The Raysnail - WIP, a probability based rayt... [626 days 16 hours and 42 minutes ago]

Thu, 18 Jul 2024 14:39:45 GMT

On 7/17/24 21:08, Bald Eagle wrote:

> I also found this video extremely useful
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsZiJeaMO48

I haven't watched it all yet, but it indeed seems interesting. Thank you 
for sharing the link!

[Hj Malthaner] Re: The Raysnail - WIP, a probability based rayt... [626 days 16 hours and 43 minutes ago]

Thu, 18 Jul 2024 14:38:47 GMT

On 7/17/24 21:08, Bald Eagle wrote:
> "Hj. Malthaner" <me@home> wrote:
> 
>> In regard to the parser,
> 
> Maybe before you get too far into that, take a look at:
>
https://journal.stuffwithstuff.com/2011/03/19/pratt-parsers-expression-parsing-made-easy/

Interesting, I had not heard of PRATT parsers before.

I think I'll stick with a recursive descent parser though, because it's 
a more widely known approach, even if the code is less compact.

The structure of a recursive descent parser resembles the grammar quite 
closely which a benefit too, I think, with the grammar being of the docs 
already.

[Hj Malthaner] Re: The Raysnail - WIP, a probability based rayt... [626 days 16 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Thu, 18 Jul 2024 14:32:53 GMT

On 7/18/24 15:38, Bill Pragnell wrote:

> Are you aware of the UberPOV fork?
> 
> https://github.com/UberPOV/UberPOV

Now I am. Well, I had heard of UberPOV before but never really looked 
into it ...

> It's based on POV-Ray 3.7 and hasn't really seen any development for some time,
> but one of its notable features is stochastic global illumination as an
> extension to radiosity. I still use it quite often because I think it produces
> much better results than the standard radiosity with almost no tweaking
> required.

That matches my own impression and why I wanted something with global 
illumination while still supporting PovRay SDL. This is quite 
interesting, thank you for the link!

[Bill Pragnell] Re: The Raysnail - WIP, a probability based rayt... [626 days 17 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Thu, 18 Jul 2024 13:40:00 GMT

"Hj. Malthaner" <me@home> wrote:
> Something though that I had been missing in PovRay is what is known as
> global illumination or path based lighting. Radiosity, supported by
> PovRay, is very similar, but not quite the same.

Are you aware of the UberPOV fork?

https://github.com/UberPOV/UberPOV

It's based on POV-Ray 3.7 and hasn't really seen any development for some time,
but one of its notable features is stochastic global illumination as an
extension to radiosity. I still use it quite often because I think it produces
much better results than the standard radiosity with almost no tweaking
required.

Maybe there's something there of interest relevant to your project!

Bill

[Bald Eagle] Re: The Raysnail - WIP, a probability based rayt... [627 days 12 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Jul 2024 19:10:00 GMT

"Hj. Malthaner" <me@home> wrote:

> The BRDFs are still making my head spin. I understand the concept, but
> struggle with the actual math to come up with proper BRDFs for new
> materials of my own.

Diagrams are definitely your friend.
Drawing the diagram with POV-Ray using the math that you're trying to work out
is also an excellent exercise.

I also found this video extremely useful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsZiJeaMO48

> In regard to the parser, I want to say thanks to the people who wrote
> the PovRay documentation. Each SDL element is documented with a snippet
> of a grammar, which can be converted almost one to one into a recursive
> descend parser. So the documentation is already there. I'll try to keep
> the identifiers used in the parser code close to the ones used the
> documented grammar, so the code will look familiar to those who looked
> at the grammar from the documentation before.

Maybe before you get too far into that, take a look at:
https://journal.stuffwithstuff.com/2011/03/19/pratt-parsers-expression-parsing-made-easy/

[Hj Malthaner] Re: The Raysnail - WIP, a probability based rayt... [627 days 12 hours and 43 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Jul 2024 18:38:48 GMT

On 7/17/24 19:15, Bald Eagle wrote:

 > I hope you'll have some time to document your discoveries about 
coding > your
 > raytracer and BRDF model(s), but especially the parser part.

The BRDFs are still making my head spin. I understand the concept, but 
struggle with the actual math to come up with proper BRDFs for new 
materials of my own. So, let me point you to the source instead, the 
lectures that I had been using myself:

https://raytracing.github.io/

The third book is about importance sampling and Monte Carlo integration. 
It has probability density functions and also scattering functions for 
the most important materials, like a diffuse reflecting material, a 
specular reflecting material (metal/mirror) and a material which both 
reflects and refracts (glass/transparent material).

If you want to look at some code, this developer also has made a 
raytracer based on above mentioned lectures and added additional materials,

https://github.com/miguelggcc/QBVH-Rust-Ray-Tracer

Of particular interest will be the Blinn-Phong material and the 
Ashikhmin-Shirley material:

https://github.com/miguelggcc/QBVH-Rust-Ray-Tracer/blob/master/src/material.rs

In regard to the parser, I want to say thanks to the people who wrote 
the PovRay documentation. Each SDL element is documented with a snippet 
of a grammar, which can be converted almost one to one into a recursive 
descend parser. So the documentation is already there. I'll try to keep 
the identifiers used in the parser code close to the ones used the 
documented grammar, so the code will look familiar to those who looked 
at the grammar from the documentation before.

I think the real need for documentation will come once I try to support 
macros and similar advanced SDL features.

To be fair though, my code needs more comments in general.

Luckily github supports having a Wiki for a project, so there is a place 
to write down discoveries, pitfalls to avoid and interesting solutions.

 > There are several
 > of us here that are intensely interested in all of that.

I was under the impression it could be of interest :)

PovRay has a great legacy, and one of the features that really set it 
apart for me was the SDL. This, together with all the mathematically 
exact objects, as opposed to approximation by polygon meshes as most 
other raytracers do.

[Bald Eagle] Re: The Raysnail - WIP, a probability based rayt... [627 days 12 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Jul 2024 18:25:00 GMT

"Hj. Malthaner" <me@home> wrote:
> I've
> started to implement a parser for PovRay scene files. It can't parse
> much yet, but there are no technical limits on that level, it just takes
> time to expand the parser. PovRay SDL is huge.

I found this while on break:

http://disq.us/url?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkeepcalmandlearnrust.com%2F2016%2F08%2Fpratt-parser-in-rust%2F%3AVTzJuXKy2d8-o-HOB-
QkF3yoZ-s&cuid=968811

[Bald Eagle] Re: The Raysnail - WIP, a probability based rayt... [627 days 14 hours and 1 minute ago]

Wed, 17 Jul 2024 17:20:00 GMT

You, Sir, are a legend.
And what timing!

jr, put this man "on the list"!

HJ, please take a look at these and see if they help any:

https://news.povray.org/povray.advanced-users/thread/%3Cweb.6369a6d45447eee1f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org%3E/

https://news.povray.org/povray.advanced-users/thread/%3Cweb.636eec0e210cb4a81f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org%3E/

I hope you'll have some time to document your discoveries about coding your
raytracer and BRDF model(s), but especially the parser part.  There are several
of us here that are intensely interested in all of that.


(Also, this seems an opportune time to recall a scene that several of us
remember, but none of us can find again:  someone wrote an SDL file to render a
keyword-colored SDL file (text {} objects), and sort of had to write their own
parser in the process.  I hope someday that someone will be able to find that
again.)

- BW

[jr] Re: The Raysnail - WIP, a probability based rayt... [627 days 14 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Jul 2024 16:30:00 GMT

hi,

"Hj. Malthaner" <me@home> wrote:
> I've been using PovRay for many years, and I want to say I'm very happy
> about the 3.8 release. Thanks a lot for that!
>
> Something though that I had been missing in PovRay is what is known as
> global illumination or path based lighting. Radiosity, supported by
> PovRay, is very similar, but not quite the same.
> ...
> Long message. In short, I have a raytracer in the works. I am trying to
> support PovRay scene files as good as I can. If you are interested in
> this project, or have any sort of feedback, please let me know.

without having looked at code etc (I haven't the maths, anyway), a new feature
to complement the existing radiosity stuff sounds v cool.  and, as there are
(rumoured) developments beyond v3.8, your idea/code may well find its way into
the "next generation" POV-Ray.  _thank_you_.

regards, jr.

[Hj Malthaner] The Raysnail - WIP, a probability based raytrace... [627 days 15 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Jul 2024 16:07:12 GMT

I've been using PovRay for many years, and I want to say I'm very happy
about the 3.8 release. Thanks a lot for that!

Something though that I had been missing in PovRay is what is known as
global illumination or path based lighting. Radiosity, supported by
PovRay, is very similar, but not quite the same.

First I've been looking into PovRay's sources to see if I can add such a
feature. But at the time I knew too little about both, PovRay coding and
the math behind path based lighting. So I put that idea to rest.

Recently I found a series of lectures, starting with "Raytracing in one
Weekend". It came with example code simple enough for me to understand.
But the real stunning point was, the third series of lectures was just
about what I had been looking for - Monte Carlo integration of incoming
light and path based lighting (unidirectional). Aptly named "The rest of
your life."

Since some months I'm trying to learn Rust, and found that someone had
translated the example code (C++) from the first two lecture seasons to
Rust. So I tried to get my brain working once more and implement the
features of the third lecture season by myself. Much headache, I'm bad
at this sort of math, but it works now. Some examples are here:

https://github.com/Varkalandar/raysnail/wiki/Raysnail-Render-Examples

Now I had an Raytracer with the desired feature, admittedly a very
simple one. But I also had a lot of PovRay scene files which I had
written over more than a decade. I wanted to continue using these, or at
least continue in a similar manner.

And that's why I am posting here, it could be of interest for you. I've
started to implement a parser for PovRay scene files. It can't parse
much yet, but there are no technical limits on that level, it just takes
time to expand the parser. PovRay SDL is huge.

Here is an example file that the parser can read right now:
https://github.com/Varkalandar/raysnail/blob/e248884b4eb38f1d0f0dab8bca592c05516a5dde/sdl/example.sdl

The Raysnail will render this result from it:
https://private-user-images.githubusercontent.com/62077919/349234580-362117c3-13d9-44ce-a770-0a04d76021f3.jpg?jwt=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.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.M5Dyb6tp2I3chY8uO2nfikF-8xV2n4akmlvWGeV0dmQ

If the link doesn't work, please go here and scroll to the bottom of the
page, the image is included in the examples:
https://github.com/Varkalandar/raysnail/wiki/Raysnail-Render-Examples

So far so good ... but there are also many issues. One is, that I don't
think I can emulate PovRay materials one to one. I can emulate a lot,
but there will be differences, based in the different approaches that
PovRay and the Raysnail implement to handle materials.

Other problems are that typical lights in PovRay are point lights,
infinitely small and invisible. The Raysnail needs lights with a certain
size to work. I likely can emulate PovRay lights by having really tiny
lights in the Raysnail, but they will still be visible as bright dots.

Long message. In short, I have a raytracer in the works. I am trying to
support PovRay scene files as good as I can. If you are interested in
this project, or have any sort of feedback, please let me know.

The code is here, not really cleaned up, but well, it's what I have:
https://github.com/Varkalandar/raysnail

Thank you for reading.

[Jim Henderson] Re: Northern Lights [694 days 11 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Sat, 11 May 2024 19:46:17 GMT

On Sat, 11 May 2024 12:27:24 -0700, Josh English wrote:

> I live in SW Portland, so there isn't much but we thought it would be
> enough. Although I've seen some beautiful pictures taken from parks in
> SW Portland and we have some big parks in my area.
> 
> When we got home just after midnight I looked up and there was a faint
> glow. This is the image my phone managed to pull.
> 
> We probably didn't need to drive 20 miles north, but I think it was
> worth it.

Nice!  Thanks for the info - that will help me determine if we need to 
take a quick road trip tonight, once I see what the forecast looks like 
from NOAA (their forecast leads by about 30 minutes)



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Josh English] Re: Northern Lights [694 days 11 hours and 54 minutes ago]

Sat, 11 May 2024 19:27:34 GMT

On 5/11/2024 11:19 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Sat, 11 May 2024 10:57:32 -0700, Josh English wrote:
> 
>> I live in Portland Oregon and for the first time in my life I saw the
>> northern lights and I kept coming back to the old standard "how did God
>> define this media?"
> 
> Great picture - how much light pollution is around you?
> 
> We're about an hour outside of Seattle, missed it last night, but are
> going to look tonight.  We're on one of the islands, so light pollution is
> fairly low, but not completely gone.
> 
> 
> 
I live in SW Portland, so there isn't much but we thought it would be 
enough. Although I've seen some beautiful pictures taken from parks in 
SW Portland and we have some big parks in my area.

When we got home just after midnight I looked up and there was a faint 
glow. This is the image my phone managed to pull.

We probably didn't need to drive 20 miles north, but I think it was 
worth it.

[Jim Henderson] Re: Northern Lights [694 days 13 hours and 2 minutes ago]

Sat, 11 May 2024 18:19:07 GMT

On Sat, 11 May 2024 10:57:32 -0700, Josh English wrote:

> I live in Portland Oregon and for the first time in my life I saw the
> northern lights and I kept coming back to the old standard "how did God
> define this media?"

Great picture - how much light pollution is around you?

We're about an hour outside of Seattle, missed it last night, but are 
going to look tonight.  We're on one of the islands, so light pollution is 
fairly low, but not completely gone.

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Josh English] Northern Lights [694 days 13 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Sat, 11 May 2024 17:57:45 GMT

I live in Portland Oregon and for the first time in my life I saw the 
northern lights and I kept coming back to the old standard "how did God 
define this media?"

[jr] Re: serial penalties [703 days 21 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Thu, 2 May 2024 09:55:00 GMT

hi,

William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> ...
> :-) Lawn chairs outside the senior center. ...

excellent, put "a towel" to reserve over mine.  ;-)


regards, jr.

[William F Pokorny] Re: serial penalties [703 days 22 hours and 13 minutes ago]

Thu, 2 May 2024 09:08:23 GMT

On 5/1/24 15:16, jr wrote:
> by now I'm too old + decrepit to go out protesting in the streets.

:-) Lawn chairs outside the senior center. "Yes, Carol. We'll arrest 
Bill once he's done with his nap."

Bill P.

[jr] serial penalties [704 days 12 hours and 1 minute ago]

Wed, 1 May 2024 19:20:00 GMT

hi,

by now I'm too old + decrepit to go out protesting in the streets.  but in
spirit I'm with the US American (and other) students, and ordinary people, who
protest in support of the Palestinian people.

the subject ?  an anagram of "Israel + Palestine".

now playing (loudly :-)):  The Clash "Know Your Rights".


regards, jr.

[19100] Re: POV-Ray 5 ? [779 days 14 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Fri, 16 Feb 2024 16:50:00 GMT

"ingo" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> At least it is script based ... https://openai.com/sora
>
> ingo

Interesting that they're trying to make these models more responsive to prompts.
I've seen people compare POV-Ray with AI before but to me it's more akin to
Blender without the GUI focus (with some exceptions like povmodeler or Moray of
course). Like Blender it's a rendering engine, modelling tool and programming
environment all in one. Neural networks are evolving quickly but I'll be very
impressed if they ever offer the precision and control of a strict rules-based
simulation like that in 3D software. ;)

[ingo] POV-Ray 5 ? [780 days and 56 minutes ago]

Fri, 16 Feb 2024 06:25:00 GMT

At least it is script based ... https://openai.com/sora

ingo

[Bald Eagle] Complex numbers applied to "ordinary" functions [861 days 8 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Sun, 26 Nov 2023 22:40:00 GMT

Pretty interesting method of graphing a lot of common functions, but with a
complex-number twist that reveals some hidden properties that suggests we may
hear more about developments from this in the future.

Enjoy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92wXQYcYLMg

- BE

[Cousin Ricky] Re: still alive and kickin' in Virginia [873 days 6 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Wed, 15 Nov 2023 00:56:16 GMT

On 2023-11-06 16:25 (-4), Bald Eagle wrote:
> 
> STL are files are essentially _already_ mesh files.   They just use different
> keywords to denote the triangles.  I wrote my own spreadsheet (and IIRC, so did
> Cousin Ricky) to convert STL to POV - but perhaps a macro or something could be
> written to do the absolutely trivial "conversion".

I have never converted STL to anything.  I have plugged numbers from SVG
files into a spreadsheet to re-scale its dimensions, then manually
copied the new dimensions into POV-Ray.

I would be more likely to use C, XSL, or awk than a spreadsheet to
convert STL.

[GioSeregni] Re: still alive and kickin' in Virginia [875 days and 1 minute ago]

Mon, 13 Nov 2023 07:20:00 GMT

I have been working and developing on this tool of mine for a long time.
It is especially useful to me for 3D printing. I don't send executables around,
because the software environment is bad and I don't want to get involved in
virus mishaps. However, if it is useful to anyone, I can send them the source
code file, written with RapidQ (a good Basic) and completely autonomous in a
single file.
However, I start from CAD or STL, so it is advisable to transform only the POV
and INC (meshes blocks by colors) files that it has created. Because the syntax
of POV is large and complex. It
works only with 3DFACE and manages colors using Layers. It is often useful when
creating STLs to keep some parts in another color visible and separate.
BR
G.

[Mike Miller] Re: still alive and kickin' in Virginia [880 days 8 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Tue, 7 Nov 2023 23:15:00 GMT

"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> I've been away from the newsgroups for at least 6 months(!). Mostly work-related
> and seasonal--I play the guitar in a local band, and the Summer months have been
> hectic in this resort area. I also came down with Covid-- first time, and
> fortunately a relatively mild case; then my car had a major and mysterious
> engine problem that took several months to track down and repair (with no real
> mass-transit system available here); then I had an emergency medical situation:
> a kidney stone -- my first one!-- which had to be removed via laser-zapping;
> THEN I broke part of a tooth! But on a brighter note, several weeks ago I bought
> my first 3D printer, which I've been playing with constantly to discover the
> finer points of printing with it.
>
> It has been an interesting 6 months! But I haven't forgotten POV-ray; I've been
> working on several projects that I hope to post about soon.
>
> Meanwhile, I need to catch up on all of those neglected newsgroup posts.
>
> Cheers!

Dang...that's quite the series of events. I'm glad you made it through all that.
I
took the summer of from POV too. Just getting back to it in the last few days.
Best regards,
Mike.

[Kenneth] Re: still alive and kickin' in Virginia [881 days 7 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Nov 2023 23:35:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
>
> STL are files are essentially _already_ mesh files. They just use different
> keywords to denote the triangles.  I wrote my own spreadsheet
> (and IIRC, so did Cousin Ricky) to convert STL to POV - but perhaps a macro
> or something could be written to do the absolutely trivial "conversion".
> I'm still gobsmacked that such a thing isn't already a solid part of
> the POV-Ray toolkit. Actually, I'm shocked that no one has simply
> implemented direct import of stl files by POV-Ray itself, since it would
> be "just" ;) a minor cut-and-paste and then a little modification to
> handle the slightly different file structure.
>

Intrepid (and naive) experimenter that I am, I tried opening an .stl file in
Wordpad to see what would happen-- thinking that it *might* just be a simple
ascii text file (ha!) NOPE! A bunch of computer-ese gibberish instead. (Well,
the one I tried was a binary file, made in the Meshmixer app, so I should have
expected that.) The process of converting .stl to mesh2(?) for rendering in
POV-ray would seem quite daunting to my inexperienced eyes. Kudos to you and
Cousin Ricky for working that out.

>
> Support material is tricky.
> I've written G-code from scratch, which is what handles the CNC aspect of
> driving the printing head - it's truly not that difficult.
> Which leaves me wondering why some of the printing patterns, and
> construction of support structures seems so poorly implemented.
>
I'm finding that gcode is quite fun to play around with-- it's just simple text
commands. It's somewhat new to me though, so I'm being *very* careful when
attempting to edit my 3D-printer files. But the 'slicer' software for printers
seems to be quite an amazing coding accomplishment, turning .stl triangle data
into layer-by-layer .gcode instructions that delineate geometric paths; it seems
like magic. I guess old-style computer plotters used similar translation
algorithms(?).

[Bald Eagle] Re: still alive and kickin' in Virginia [881 days 10 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Nov 2023 20:30:00 GMT

"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> How long and painful was your learning curve with that app?

Well, I was working with someone who had already figured it out, and tbh, I
didn't personally use it much - and it was quite a long time ago.

> Right. Once '3D slicer' creates the model as .stl, it could be brought into
> Poseray (and/or Meshlab?) -- I assume-- to convert it into a mesh file that's
> usable for importing back into POV-ray, if needed.

STL are files are essentially _already_ mesh files.   They just use different
keywords to denote the triangles.  I wrote my own spreadsheet (and IIRC, so did
Cousin Ricky) to convert STL to POV - but perhaps a macro or something could be
written to do the absolutely trivial "conversion".  I'm still gobsmacked that
such a thing isn't already a solid part of the POV-Ray toolkit.
Actually, I'm shocked that no one has simply implemented direct import of stl
files by POV-Ray itself, since it would be "just" ;) a minor cut-and-paste and
then a little modification to handle the slightly different file structure.

<HINT> A sure candidate for immediate addition to the yuqk fork </HINT>
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> One neat thing about my current process is that a complex model would probably
> need supports placed here and there, for the 3D-printing step. Those supports
> could actually be designed into the model in POV-ray (temporarily) which then
> show up in the initial .png 'slices' just like the model itself, and become part
> of the created .stl file ready for printing. To me, that seems a better way of
> doing it than relying on the final 'slicer' software (Cura et al) to figure out
> where the clunky supports should go. I haven't tried the idea yet, though; I'm
> still in the early stages of 'discovery' ;-)

Support material is tricky.
I've written G-code from scratch, which is what handles the CNC aspect of
driving the printing head - it's truly not that difficult.
Which leaves me wondering why some of the printing patterns, and construction of
support structures seems so poorly implemented.

- BW

[Kenneth] Re: still alive and kickin' in Virginia [881 days 11 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Nov 2023 19:30:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Hey - very cool.
> Glad you're having fun with all of that.
>
> I've used Slicer in the past for 3D printing - but I think what you've
> also done is come up with a (long-sought after) way to turn a complex
> object into a mesh.

How long and painful was your learning curve with that app? When I first fired
it up on my computer, I thought "Holy s**t, how am I ever gonna understand this
thing?" The various online video tutorials I've studied were a godsend-- but I
still haven't come across one that clearly explains how to take image 'stacks'
and output an .stl file from them; I had to muck around on my own to discover
that little set of operations (which were not at all obvious, *groan*). The
online manual wasn't very helpful.
>
> If we could (semi-)automate the whole process, then we could model something
> using CSG, then using animation - slice it up,  and send it through the
> stacking-meshing pipeline, and then save the mesh for future use.   Doesn't
> matter how slow it is, since the idea would be to have the object quickly
> renderable in future scenes.

Right. Once '3D slicer' creates the model as .stl, it could be brought into
Poseray (and/or Meshlab?) -- I assume-- to convert it into a mesh file that's
usable for importing back into POV-ray, if needed.

One neat thing about my current process is that a complex model would probably
need supports placed here and there, for the 3D-printing step. Those supports
could actually be designed into the model in POV-ray (temporarily) which then
show up in the initial .png 'slices' just like the model itself, and become part
of the created .stl file ready for printing. To me, that seems a better way of
doing it than relying on the final 'slicer' software (Cura et al) to figure out
where the clunky supports should go. I haven't tried the idea yet, though; I'm
still in the early stages of 'discovery' ;-)

[Bald Eagle] Re: still alive and kickin' in Virginia [881 days 12 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Nov 2023 18:50:00 GMT

Hey - very cool.
Glad you're having fun with all of that.

I've used Slicer in the past for 3D printing - but I think what you've also done
is come up with a (long-sought after) way to turn a complex object into a mesh.

If we could (semi-)automate the whole process, then we could model something
using CSG, then using animation - slice it up,  and send it through the
stacking-meshing pipeline, and then save the mesh for future use.   Doesn't
matter how slow it is, since the idea would be to have the object quickly
renderable in future scenes.

- BW

[William F Pokorny] Re: still alive and kickin' in Virginia [881 days 16 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Nov 2023 15:15:19 GMT

On 11/6/23 07:56, Kenneth wrote:
> I will try to put together a how-to explanation of the process as it relates to
> POV-ray.

It would be cool to see pictures of your printed stuff too when you have 
it going.

I'm reminded the other Bill P. never mailed me any of his printed 3D 
objects printed in gold. I wanted to carefully review gold printed 
objects - over some significant number of years. How well do they hold 
up? Do they melt down into nice small bars?

Bill P.

[Kenneth] Re: still alive and kickin' in Virginia [881 days 18 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Nov 2023 13:00:00 GMT

"Bill Pragnell" <bil### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> > I have been wondering if some dedicated POV-Ray projects could somehow
> > be 3D printed...
>
> I played with this some years ago:
>
>
http://news.povray.org/povray.general/message/%3Cweb.5682a213e23216e08da727310%40news.povray.org%3E
>
> This post was even replied to by Kenneth himself. Lurkers of the world unite!
>

Hi all; sorry for my silence (yet again!) I have been working on a scheme to
turn a POV-ray object into a 3D-printable .stl file-- ANY kind of object or CSG,
not just a mesh or mesh2.

From what  I've read in the  previously cited newsgroup posts here, they all use
POV-ray's trace(...) function to create a dense 'point cloud' of an object,
which is then ported over to Meshlab or Meshmixer to re-build the object as a
triangle mesh and to create an .stl file for 3D printing. That apparently works
well for some objects, but I can see that just about any tracing scheme will
have some limitations and difficulties-- with overhangs and undercuts, for
example, and hollow spaces/holes.

So I decided to go about it in a different way: 'pre-slicing'  the object within
POV-ray as a series of thin slices (.png rendered images, white against a black
background), then importing them into an app called '3D slicer.' It's a huge
(230 MB zipped!) professional-level viewer/manipulator for hospital CT/MRI
scans. Take a look here...

https://www.slicer.org/

It is free to download, which is quite amazing, and can import a stack of .png
or .jpeg images (the slices) to recreate the object. It can also output an .stl
file, for later importing into your favorite 3D-printer 'slicer' software such
as Cura, Prusa-slicer, Creality Print etc. (They turn the .stl file into the
final .gcode instructions for the printer.)

This app is very intimidating and mysterious at first glance, and the GUI and
its menus are somewhat non-standard.  I spent a week researching various
medical-tech videos on Youtube to figure out HOW to use and navigate even the
basic necessary menus, as the layout is not newbie-friendly (and is designed for
a totally different audience). The processing steps we are interested in are
complicated to explain in words, but luckily use only a very small subset of the
app's vast list of features. Once the few required steps are learned, it's easy!

So the whole process is like this:  pre-slice the POV-ray 3D object -->  rebuild
the object as 3D from the slices -->  output the .stl file -->  re-'slice' the
model as .gcode for 3D printing.  It's a roundabout way of accomplishing the
goal, I admit, but it works! I have already printed several test models in PLA
plastic.

I will try to put together a how-to explanation of the process as it relates to
POV-ray.

[Bill Pragnell] Re: still alive and kickin' in Virginia [894 days 11 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Tue, 24 Oct 2023 19:35:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> I have been wondering if some dedicated POV-Ray projects could somehow
> be 3D printed...

I played with this some years ago:

http://news.povray.org/povray.general/message/%3Cweb.5682a213e23216e08da727310%40news.povray.org%3E

This post was even replied to by Kenneth himself. Lurkers of the world unite!

Bill

[Thomas de Groot] Re: still alive and kickin' in Virginia [900 days 1 hour and 3 minutes ago]

Thu, 19 Oct 2023 06:18:20 GMT

Op 18/10/2023 om 20:00 schreef Bald Eagle:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>>>> I have been wondering if some dedicated POV-Ray projects could somehow
>>>> be 3D printed...
>>>
>>> Chris Young did this with his Angel Christmas ornament.
>>>
>> Ah. I dimly remember something indeed...
> 
> https://graphics.cyborg5.com/2016/12/25/christmas-2016/
> 

Brilliant! Thank you!

-- 
Thomas

[Bald Eagle] Re: still alive and kickin' in Virginia [900 days 13 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Wed, 18 Oct 2023 18:05:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> >> I have been wondering if some dedicated POV-Ray projects could somehow
> >> be 3D printed...
> >
> > Chris Young did this with his Angel Christmas ornament.
> >
> Ah. I dimly remember something indeed...

https://graphics.cyborg5.com/2016/12/25/christmas-2016/

[19100] Re: still alive and kickin' in Virginia [900 days 15 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Wed, 18 Oct 2023 15:40:00 GMT

"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> I've been away from the newsgroups for at least 6 months(!). Mostly work-related
> and seasonal--I play the guitar in a local band, and the Summer months have been
> hectic in this resort area. I also came down with Covid-- first time, and
> fortunately a relatively mild case; then my car had a major and mysterious
> engine problem that took several months to track down and repair (with no real
> mass-transit system available here); then I had an emergency medical situation:
> a kidney stone -- my first one!-- which had to be removed via laser-zapping;
> THEN I broke part of a tooth! But on a brighter note, several weeks ago I bought
> my first 3D printer, which I've been playing with constantly to discover the
> finer points of printing with it.
>
> It has been an interesting 6 months! But I haven't forgotten POV-ray; I've been
> working on several projects that I hope to post about soon.
>
> Meanwhile, I need to catch up on all of those neglected newsgroup posts.
>
> Cheers!

Hey Kenneth, sounds like you've had a lot going on, welcome back to the group!

[Thomas de Groot] Re: still alive and kickin' in Virginia [900 days 20 hours ago]

Wed, 18 Oct 2023 11:21:44 GMT

Op 18-10-2023 om 13:15 schreef Bald Eagle:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> 
>> I have been wondering if some dedicated POV-Ray projects could somehow
>> be 3D printed...
> 
> Chris Young did this with his Angel Christmas ornament.
> 
Ah. I dimly remember something indeed...

-- 
Thomas

[Bald Eagle] Re: still alive and kickin' in Virginia [900 days 20 hours and 1 minute ago]

Wed, 18 Oct 2023 11:20:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:

> I have been wondering if some dedicated POV-Ray projects could somehow
> be 3D printed...

Chris Young did this with his Angel Christmas ornament.


- BW

[Thomas de Groot] Re: still alive and kickin' in Virginia [900 days 23 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Wed, 18 Oct 2023 07:41:16 GMT

Op 18-10-2023 om 01:06 schreef Kenneth:
> Hi all.
> 
> I've been away from the newsgroups for at least 6 months(!). Mostly work-related
> and seasonal--I play the guitar in a local band, and the Summer months have been
> hectic in this resort area. I also came down with Covid-- first time, and
> fortunately a relatively mild case; then my car had a major and mysterious
> engine problem that took several months to track down and repair (with no real
> mass-transit system available here); then I had an emergency medical situation:
> a kidney stone -- my first one!-- which had to be removed via laser-zapping;
> THEN I broke part of a tooth! But on a brighter note, several weeks ago I bought
> my first 3D printer, which I've been playing with constantly to discover the
> finer points of printing with it.
> 
> It has been an interesting 6 months! But I haven't forgotten POV-ray; I've been
> working on several projects that I hope to post about soon.
> 
> Meanwhile, I need to catch up on all of those neglected newsgroup posts.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> 
> 
Good to hear you are still around! I have missed your projects and 
comments here indeed.

I hope your "first ones" do not repeat themselves too often; one can 
miss them like... toothache (as the saying is here in NL). My best 
wishes go with you!

I have been wondering if some dedicated POV-Ray projects could somehow 
be 3D printed...

-- 
Thomas

[Kenneth] still alive and kickin' in Virginia [901 days 8 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Tue, 17 Oct 2023 23:10:00 GMT

Hi all.

I've been away from the newsgroups for at least 6 months(!). Mostly work-related
and seasonal--I play the guitar in a local band, and the Summer months have been
hectic in this resort area. I also came down with Covid-- first time, and
fortunately a relatively mild case; then my car had a major and mysterious
engine problem that took several months to track down and repair (with no real
mass-transit system available here); then I had an emergency medical situation:
a kidney stone -- my first one!-- which had to be removed via laser-zapping;
THEN I broke part of a tooth! But on a brighter note, several weeks ago I bought
my first 3D printer, which I've been playing with constantly to discover the
finer points of printing with it.

It has been an interesting 6 months! But I haven't forgotten POV-ray; I've been
working on several projects that I hope to post about soon.

Meanwhile, I need to catch up on all of those neglected newsgroup posts.

Cheers!

[Cousin Ricky] Re: I cannot set up Github 2FA! [908 days 2 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Wed, 11 Oct 2023 04:25:55 GMT

On 2023-10-11 00:15, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> On 2023-10-08 07:12 (-4), Chris Cason wrote:
>>
>> If you think the issue is with Github, try using one of the sites that
>> allows you to test TOTP, such as https://www.verifyr.com/en/otp/check
>> (just enter junk in the label and issuer fields). Import the generated
>> key then test it using the same page. It should work. If it does and you
>> still can't get Github to work then that would be puzzling.
> 
> I tried verifyr.com, and it worked.  But GitHub still doesn't.

Wait...!  On my last attempt, I got a different error message, with a
link to try again.  I scanned the QR code, which set up an entirely new
entry, and that one worked.  This must have been a one-time glitch.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: I cannot set up Github 2FA! [908 days 3 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Wed, 11 Oct 2023 04:15:30 GMT

On 2023-10-08 07:12 (-4), Chris Cason wrote:
> 
> If you think the issue is with Github, try using one of the sites that
> allows you to test TOTP, such as https://www.verifyr.com/en/otp/check
> (just enter junk in the label and issuer fields). Import the generated
> key then test it using the same page. It should work. If it does and you
> still can't get Github to work then that would be puzzling.

I tried verifyr.com, and it worked.  But GitHub still doesn't.

[Jim Henderson] Re: I cannot set up Github 2FA! [909 days 9 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Mon, 9 Oct 2023 21:22:28 GMT

On 9 Oct 2023 17:13:10 -0400, Jim Henderson wrote:

> FWIW, SMS is far less secure than an app.  IMEI cloning renders SMS
> verification one of the least secure options out there.

Actually, this isn't the correct reason, but it still is pretty insecure.

https://www.okta.com/blog/2020/10/sms-authentication/ (I worked for an 
Okta competitor, but this article spells it out pretty well.)

It's better than nothing, but not better than TOTP.



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Jim Henderson] Re: I cannot set up Github 2FA! [909 days 10 hours and 8 minutes ago]

Mon, 9 Oct 2023 21:13:42 GMT

On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 18:27:01 +0200, Thorsten wrote:

>  I would be surprised if this wasn't possible on Android
> phone with Google native applications as well.

Google Authenticator is the tool I use.



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Jim Henderson] Re: I cannot set up Github 2FA! [909 days 10 hours and 8 minutes ago]

Mon, 9 Oct 2023 21:13:10 GMT

On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 16:31:02 +0200, Le_Forgeron wrote:

> I went with the SMS verification code.
> (I do not trust applications)

FWIW, SMS is far less secure than an app.  IMEI cloning renders SMS 
verification one of the least secure options out there.

TOTP application codes are among the most secure, because the algorithms 
used are open.  You can use something like FreeOTP if you want something 
that you can audit the code for.
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Cousin Ricky] Re: I cannot set up Github 2FA! [910 days 14 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Sun, 8 Oct 2023 16:44:31 GMT

On 2023-10-08 07:12 (-4), Chris Cason wrote:
> 
> How are you importing the master code? Via QR + camera or are you using
> the manually-entered key? If only one, have you tried the other? Have
> you tried a different authenticator program?

I used QR + camera.  Aegis appeared to load GitHub's info correctly.  I
have not tried a different authenticator program.

[Thorsten] Re: I cannot set up Github 2FA! [910 days 14 hours and 54 minutes ago]

Sun, 8 Oct 2023 16:27:02 GMT

On 08.10.2023 16:31, Le_Forgeron wrote:
> I went with the SMS verification code.
> (I do not trust applications)

You might want to check out how TOTP works. It is almost trivial (and 
yet so effective) and can actually run almost anywhere, so you don't 
have to depend on those "funny" applications available on phones if you 
don't want to. There are several free libraries handling it to compile 
even on your desktop.

Oh, and at least on an iPhone, you can actually use the native password 
manager to generate the codes, too, however, you always have to go to 
the password for the site to get the code displayed, so it isn't the 
most convenient. Still. I would be surprised if this wasn't possible on 
Android phone with Google native applications as well.

Thorsten

[Le Forgeron] Re: I cannot set up Github 2FA! [910 days 16 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Sun, 8 Oct 2023 14:31:02 GMT

Le 08/10/2023 Ã  03:29, Cousin Ricky a Ã©critÂ :
> GitHub is requiring me to set up 2-factor authorization by October 11,
> or they will lock me out of my account.  I've followed their setup
> instructions using Aegis for Android, but I always get the message,
> "Two-factor code verification failed.  Please try again."  I cannot
> complete the setup.
> 
> There doesn't seem to be a help link anywhere, and this problem doesn't
> show up in any FAQ, so I tried Googling, Binging, and DuckDuckGoing the
> problem.  The only suggestion I've seen is that the clocks of the phone
> and computer are out of sync.  It turned out mine were off by 2 seconds,
> but re-synchronizing them did not help.  I've rebooted both the phone
> and the computer.  No luck.
> 
> The deadline is approaching, and I'm faced with a problem that is not
> acknowledged to exist by either GitHub or the authenticator.  Have any
> GitHub users here set up 2FA successfully?  Did you have this problem?
> 
> My OS is openSUSE Leap 15.3.

I went with the SMS verification code.
(I do not trust applications)

It went fine (and once setup, they give you recovery data to download in 
case the phone number get trashed)

[Chris Cason] Re: I cannot set up Github 2FA! [910 days 20 hours and 7 minutes ago]

Sun, 8 Oct 2023 11:14:08 GMT

On 8/10/2023 12:29, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> There doesn't seem to be a help link anywhere, and this problem doesn't
> show up in any FAQ, so I tried Googling, Binging, and DuckDuckGoing the
> problem.  The only suggestion I've seen is that the clocks of the phone
> and computer are out of sync.  It turned out mine were off by 2 seconds,
> but re-synchronizing them did not help.

I'm pretty familiar with TOTP (which is what you're using), having implemented it in
code for my day job. Generally speaking the codes are valid in 30 or 60-second blocks,
and implementers are encouraged to allow codes for the previous block as well as the
current to be valid to avoid cases where someone gets a totally valid code and types
it in then submits it, but in the interim the issuer changes to a new block. That's a
bad user experience so most sites don't do that.

So basically a difference of two seconds is totally unimportant and not the cause of
your problem.

> acknowledged to exist by either GitHub or the authenticator.  Have any
> GitHub users here set up 2FA successfully?  Did you have this problem?

Yes, I have and no I didn't.

How are you importing the master code? Via QR + camera or are you using the
manually-entered key? If only one, have you tried the other? Have you tried a
different authenticator program?

If you think the issue is with Github, try using one of the sites that allows you to
test TOTP, such as https://www.verifyr.com/en/otp/check (just enter junk in the label
and issuer fields). Import the generated key then test it using the same page. It
should work. If it does and you still can't get Github to work then that would be
puzzling.

-- Chris

[Cousin Ricky] I cannot set up Github 2FA! [911 days 5 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Sun, 8 Oct 2023 01:29:58 GMT

GitHub is requiring me to set up 2-factor authorization by October 11,
or they will lock me out of my account.  I've followed their setup
instructions using Aegis for Android, but I always get the message,
"Two-factor code verification failed.  Please try again."  I cannot
complete the setup.

There doesn't seem to be a help link anywhere, and this problem doesn't
show up in any FAQ, so I tried Googling, Binging, and DuckDuckGoing the
problem.  The only suggestion I've seen is that the clocks of the phone
and computer are out of sync.  It turned out mine were off by 2 seconds,
but re-synchronizing them did not help.  I've rebooted both the phone
and the computer.  No luck.

The deadline is approaching, and I'm faced with a problem that is not
acknowledged to exist by either GitHub or the authenticator.  Have any
GitHub users here set up 2FA successfully?  Did you have this problem?

My OS is openSUSE Leap 15.3.

[jr] Re: The ghost of a box [945 days 21 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Sun, 3 Sep 2023 09:25:00 GMT

hi,

Dick Balaska <dic### [at] buckosoftcom> wrote:
> On 8/1/2023 07:33, jr wrote:
> > still, I do pay Google money -- a small amount -- annually, ...
> I've been paying Google this year. I absolutely love the show Taskmaster
> and there were getting to be too many ads, less than TV, but still. So
> my debit card serves as "ad blocker".
>
> dik

<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-66659361>


regards, jr.

[Dick Balaska] Re: The ghost of a box [945 days 23 hours and 12 minutes ago]

Sun, 3 Sep 2023 08:09:51 GMT

On 8/1/2023 07:33, jr wrote:
> hi,

> 
> still, I do pay Google money -- a small amount -- annually, figuring that since
> my data now is actually theirs, they will look after it a little better. ;-)

I've been paying Google this year. I absolutely love the show Taskmaster 
and there were getting to be too many ads, less than TV, but still. So 
my debit card serves as "ad blocker".

dik

[Ton] Re: Authentic Dutch Stroopwafels [949 days 4 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Thu, 31 Aug 2023 03:10:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> My last trip to the Netherlands was almost 50 years ago, so I don't
> remember if I had any stroopwafels in the wild.  Is this the sort of
> product that can survive mass production, packaging, and a trip across
> the Atlantic and still taste like I'm in a cafe in Amsterdam?

My experience here in New Zealand with stroopwafels is that the stroop
(molasses) has become soft underway, and then when you open a pack it is one big
lump of stroop and wafels. Which gives you an excuse to finish the whole thing
in one go!

Cheers
Ton.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: Authentic Dutch Stroopwafels [950 days and 49 minutes ago]

Wed, 30 Aug 2023 06:32:52 GMT

Op 29/08/2023 om 16:54 schreef Cousin Ricky:
> My last trip to the Netherlands was almost 50 years ago, so I don't
> remember if I had any stroopwafels in the wild.  Is this the sort of
> product that can survive mass production, packaging, and a trip across
> the Atlantic and still taste like I'm in a cafe in Amsterdam?

LOL!
I would like to see the back of the package: is there an ingredients 
list (not the one on front!). Otherwise, this looks like the authentic 
stuff, and as they also send worldwide (I looked them up) well packaged, 
they should survive, taste (remembrance!) and all.

The question would be of course, /what/ did you taste in that cafe in 
Amsterdam? There are all kinds of brands, from home made (or labelled as 
such) to mass production. I suppose you had one of the latter ones. 
However, just try them! :-)

[Fifty years ago? I lived in Amsterdam from 1966 till 1977 (with a brief 
interlude to North Africa in '75-'76). Our ways could have crossed...]

-- 
Thomas

[Cousin Ricky] Authentic Dutch Stroopwafels [950 days 16 hours and 27 minutes ago]

Tue, 29 Aug 2023 14:54:21 GMT

My last trip to the Netherlands was almost 50 years ago, so I don't
remember if I had any stroopwafels in the wild.  Is this the sort of
product that can survive mass production, packaging, and a trip across
the Atlantic and still taste like I'm in a cafe in Amsterdam?

[Samuel B ] Re: The ghost of a box [954 days 8 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Fri, 25 Aug 2023 23:05:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> > ...
> > > guess you'll be aware of Bose noise cancellation headphones, then.
> >
> > Yeah, but I'm a bit wary of noise-cancelling tech. What if the device produces
> > sounds that don't cancel anything out? Would that damage my hearing?
>
> no to the last, also, was thinking "cans" rather than earplugs.  and, fwiw, Bose
> is a quality manufacturer (which has been round for years, eg
>
<https://www.johnlewis.com/bose-quietcomfort-qc45-noise-cancelling-over-ear-wireless-bluetooth-headphones-with-mic-re
mo
> te/p5752673>).
>
> regards, jr.

Thanks for the link. I can afford it, but I don't think I need it that badly
atm. (If I lived in an apartment or otherwise closer to more people I'd
definitely get something).

Sam

[jr] Re: The ghost of a box [956 days 1 hour and 41 minutes ago]

Thu, 24 Aug 2023 05:40:00 GMT

hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> > guess you'll be aware of Bose noise cancellation headphones, then.
>
> Yeah, but I'm a bit wary of noise-cancelling tech. What if the device produces
> sounds that don't cancel anything out? Would that damage my hearing?

no to the last, also, was thinking "cans" rather than earplugs.  and, fwiw, Bose
is a quality manufacturer (which has been round for years, eg
<https://www.johnlewis.com/bose-quietcomfort-qc45-noise-cancelling-over-ear-wireless-bluetooth-headphones-with-mic-remo
te/p5752673>).

regards, jr.

[Samuel B ] Re: The ghost of a box [956 days 9 hours and 1 minute ago]

Wed, 23 Aug 2023 22:20:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> > > > > > (I think India might be making a moon landing here pretty soon...)
> > > > > this week, fingers crossed.
>
> we should know _v_ soon :-)

They made a successful landing! :)

> > I use ear plugs to cut out most of the noise
>
> guess you'll be aware of Bose noise cancellation headphones, then.

Yeah, but I'm a bit wary of noise-cancelling tech. What if the device produces
sounds that don't cancel anything out? Would that damage my hearing?

Sam

[jr] Re: The ghost of a box [956 days 19 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Wed, 23 Aug 2023 12:15:00 GMT

hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> A number of the private utilities don't seem to be working out too well for some
> of us in the 'states. Things are bound to happen, of course, but sometimes the
> frequency of those 'things' is a bit too high. (It's not as bad as Puerto Rico
> here, but... that line of thinking doesn't help the people living there :/)

ouch.  means you lose power etc supplies "frequently" ?


> > > > > (I think India might be making a moon landing here pretty soon...)
> > > > this week, fingers crossed.

we should know _v_ soon :-)


> > > Yes! And hopefully this attempt goes better than the last (unfortunate things
> > > happen, unfortunately).
> > very much hope the second attempt goes well.  (even if that means (the
> > insufferable ;-)) Mr Modi gets to beat his chest :-))
> Any progress is good, as long as it's real and not just to show off. Searching
> for water and minerals on the south lunar pole seems like a good goal to me. I
> know there's a lot of criticism regarding their space program (e.g. that money
> could be used for people in need), but that seems like a deflection from taxing
> rich people more.

wasn't aware of criticisms re their space programme; my own comment was/is re
the BJP and all that.


> ...
> I was also bummed that North Korea's recent satellite launch wasn't successful.
> Not only would it have been a source of (hopefully healthy) pride and
> accomplishment, it would have also been another way for them to be less
> paranoid, since having more eyes on nearby things helps one make better
> decisions.

ah, credit to you.  have not paid much (any :-() attention to North Korea.


> ...
> The natural sounds of birds, grasshoppers, storms... it's all great. Even people
> doing normal people things isn't so bad. But at the risk of self-diagnosing, I
> think I might have some form of transient misophonia. Certain things like a bass
> drum beat, large beeping equipment, people partying at all times and such... it
> just rubs me the wrong way sometimes. I'm getting better, though. I use ear
> plugs to cut out most of the noise, and a degree of stoicism to navigate my
> feelings about the onslaught. (It's not often as bad as I make it out to be.)

guess you'll be aware of Bose noise cancellation headphones, then.


> ...
> I looked that up. Found a song I'm not particularly interested in, but the idea
> of something being created on an Atari system is intriguing.

yes.  Atari vs Commodore..  those _were_ the days :-).


> > ... "news junkie", ...
> I read the news every morning on Lemmy and Reddit. On a basic level, reading
> words is different than hearing audio and seeing video on TV. The potential for
> getting upset is still there, but at least the manipulation is attenuated by a
> few degrees. (Speaking of cannabis, that's how I found out how much television
> was manipulating my mind. It happens on a level most of us ignore...
> subconscious even. And to think, many people just don't realize that it's going
> on all the time. [Or maybe I just think too much.])

</grin>  DHOH's "TV - Drug of the nation"'s lyrics spell it out.


> > like people recommend to do with caged parrots and other social birds, I leave
> > the radio on, 24/7, just above audible or "volume up" :-), on a music
> > station[**].  works a treat.
> I should have done this when we had cockatiels. Probably would have made things
> better.
> What's listening to that low-level noise like? Do you ever misrepresent the
> sounds or is it basically white noise to you?

no, not "white noise" or any such.  just on low level volume most of the time
(tend to turn it up when washing up/housework stuff).  may well just be a
mechanism for "combating silence", who knows.  also, no TV in this household.


> I have some kind of tinnitus, and when I'm in certain stages of sleep (dreaming)
> it makes music. I'd like to learn a music application better in order to record
> what I hear. It's almost like some sort of inter-dimensional radio, but I'm
> pretty sure it's just my subconscious remixing memories. (Unless 'SpaghettiOs
> Cereal' is a thing somewhere, haha.)

:-)  a recording project sounds (no pun intended) a real good idea (cf the "self
analysis" thing).


> Pretty sure my radio can't pick that up. But have you ever seen this?
> http://radio.garden/visit/ It's a site with a 3D globe you can navigate. You can
> listen in on real-time broadcasts, from anywhere on Earth.

had not known, v nice idea.  I guess there will a setting to enable browsing
w/out stations starting to auto-play, but didn't see it in time ;-).


regards, jr.

[jr] Re: A couple of sites [956 days 19 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Wed, 23 Aug 2023 12:15:00 GMT

hi,

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> I needed to watch someone else do some work for a while  ;)  and this guy has a
> pretty good channel - interesting topics that most of us have dabbled with from
> time to time, and he keeps it pretty simple.
> Javascript, but easy enough to translate to a POV-Ray analogue

and "only" 58 episodes..  thanks, I guess :-)


regards, jr.

[Bald Eagle] A couple of sites [958 days 7 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Mon, 21 Aug 2023 23:35:00 GMT

Hi All,


I needed to watch someone else do some work for a while  ;)  and this guy has a
pretty good channel - interesting topics that most of us have dabbled with from
time to time, and he keeps it pretty simple.
Javascript, but easy enough to translate to a POV-Ray analogue.

https://www.youtube.com/@codingmath/videos

He referenced a friend's art page in his random circle packing video, and there
are a LOT of interesting spins on procedural and generational art that I think a
lot of folks here would be interested in finding more about, if not taking a
stab at implementing.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/quasimondo/page102

Also, there is Ten Minute Physics, which is WAY more interesting than it sounds,
and has absolutely kick-ass content

https://www.youtube.com/@TenMinutePhysics/videos


- BW

[Samuel B ] Re: The ghost of a box [958 days 8 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Mon, 21 Aug 2023 23:10:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> > Yay, power's back on! It got knocked out last night, thanks to Tropical Storm
> > Hilary.
>
> ah, good.  a "novelty" in that area I read (80 years!).  made me think, another
> benefit of "urban" living - priority when restoring services.

A number of the private utilities don't seem to be working out too well for some
of us in the 'states. Things are bound to happen, of course, but sometimes the
frequency of those 'things' is a bit too high. (It's not as bad as Puerto Rico
here, but... that line of thinking doesn't help the people living there :/)

> > > > (I think India might be making a moon landing here pretty soon...)
> > > this week, fingers crossed.
> > Yes! And hopefully this attempt goes better than the last (unfortunate things
> > happen, unfortunately).
>
> very much hope the second attempt goes well.  (even if that means (the
> insufferable ;-)) Mr Modi gets to beat his chest :-))

Any progress is good, as long as it's real and not just to show off. Searching
for water and minerals on the south lunar pole seems like a good goal to me. I
know there's a lot of criticism regarding their space program (e.g. that money
could be used for people in need), but that seems like a deflection from taxing
rich people more.

> > Russia's got a moon mission going too, but I think it has already hit a snag.
> > With any luck, it won't be a major setback for them.
>
> from where I'm sitting, it looked a little like Russia was trying to "upstage"
> India.  in that sense, "poetic justice".  </shrug>

It did seem that way... and it probably was. Still, I'm disappointed the mission
failed. Evidently, the lander 'ceased its existence' after making a maneuver at
1.5 times the velocity needed, thus impacting into the lunar surface :(

I was also bummed that North Korea's recent satellite launch wasn't successful.
Not only would it have been a source of (hopefully healthy) pride and
accomplishment, it would have also been another way for them to be less
paranoid, since having more eyes on nearby things helps one make better
decisions.

> > > > ...
> > > > That's good. Personally, I have at times found it hard to feel alone and
> > > > comfortable, even though I live in a rural area. ...
> > > ...
> > > I envy people who (can afford to) live in, say, Tokyo.  think them real
> > > lucky having the products and services of _millions_ on the doorstep.
> >
> > It would be nice to order a pizza on a whim, or have a package reliably make it
> > to my doorstep (and not some post office). But the noise would be too much for
> > me, I'm pretty sure.
> >
> > Would greater access to products & services outweigh the busyness of the place
> > for you? Or maybe the busyness is part of the appeal? I can imagine how seeing
> > and hearing all the commotion from a cozy apartment would be neat.
>
> I think/know the "hustle + bustle" is part of the appeal.  I struggle to see the
> noise problem though.  life == "noise" :-)  I remember (vaguely) hearing
> grasshoppers and birdsong when little.  silence is a problem because it implies
> perceived threat(s) (in the natural world).

The natural sounds of birds, grasshoppers, storms... it's all great. Even people
doing normal people things isn't so bad. But at the risk of self-diagnosing, I
think I might have some form of transient misophonia. Certain things like a bass
drum beat, large beeping equipment, people partying at all times and such... it
just rubs me the wrong way sometimes. I'm getting better, though. I use ear
plugs to cut out most of the noise, and a degree of stoicism to navigate my
feelings about the onslaught. (It's not often as bad as I make it out to be.)

> (re-ordered)
> > > > ...
> > > > But yeah, I like a good debate, provided all parties are arguing in good
faith.
> > >
> > > yes, in good faith.
> > >
> > > (that then precludes conversation with about any politician who ever walked the
> > > Earth :-))
> >
> > I'm looking at my country's next presidential election and just shaking my head
> > `:/
>
> > ...
> > It's been suggested many times that all world leaders should take a bunch of
> > mushrooms and meditate on things. It would be great if it helped, but it's also
> > said people lacking a conscience are drawn to power, or find it easier to stay
> > there, so, idk.
>
> :-)  that would be kind of irresponsible too, I'd think that many of those
> "leaders" could be vulnerable afterwards, depressed, suicidal, some without
> doubt.

Well, it wouldn't have to be done in a reckless manner. Keep some trip killers
on hand, nurses on call, and above all: make sure set and setting is good
beforehand. Therapists to help with integration afterward. And it wouldn't have
to be 'a bunch of shrooms,' just enough to break out of the default mode network
a bit. But o course, even with every safeguard, things can still happen.

> how about just "cookies"

That could work, if they are 'special' cookies. Caution would still need to be
exercised, but probably not as much as with other things. (Green cookies can
still get *very* carried away.)

> and MJ Cole's 'Sincere' as background during
> debates ?  </grin>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MJ_Cole>
> > I read the news almost every day, but I try not to get too upset about it all.

I looked that up. Found a song I'm not particularly interested in, but the idea
of something being created on an Atari system is intriguing.

> fwiw, I used to be a "news junkie", papers and (BBC) Radio 4.  but, I kept
> getting upset.  so I've made changes[*].

I read the news every morning on Lemmy and Reddit. On a basic level, reading
words is different than hearing audio and seeing video on TV. The potential for
getting upset is still there, but at least the manipulation is attenuated by a
few degrees. (Speaking of cannabis, that's how I found out how much television
was manipulating my mind. It happens on a level most of us ignore...
subconscious even. And to think, many people just don't realize that it's going
on all the time. [Or maybe I just think too much.])

> like people recommend to do with caged parrots and other social birds, I leave
> the radio on, 24/7, just above audible or "volume up" :-), on a music
> station[**].  works a treat.

I should have done this when we had cockatiels. Probably would have made things
better.

What's listening to that low-level noise like? Do you ever misrepresent the
sounds or is it basically white noise to you?

I have some kind of tinnitus, and when I'm in certain stages of sleep (dreaming)
it makes music. I'd like to learn a music application better in order to record
what I hear. It's almost like some sort of inter-dimensional radio, but I'm
pretty sure it's just my subconscious remixing memories. (Unless 'SpaghettiOs
Cereal' is a thing somewhere, haha.)

> [*] I still "allow" myself 15/20 minutes daily on a news channel, but find more
> and more days where I don't bother.
> [**] BBC Radio 6Music.  on DAB here, your side of the pond would require
> streaming I guess.

Pretty sure my radio can't pick that up. But have you ever seen this?
http://radio.garden/visit/ It's a site with a 3D globe you can navigate. You can
listen in on real-time broadcasts, from anywhere on Earth.

Sam

[Cousin Ricky] I feel you, intern [958 days 12 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Mon, 21 Aug 2023 18:52:10 GMT

https://github.com/Peppertop/Elvie-3/tree/main/Elvie_102

[jr] Re: The ghost of a box [958 days 14 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Mon, 21 Aug 2023 16:25:00 GMT

hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> Yay, power's back on! It got knocked out last night, thanks to Tropical Storm
> Hilary.

ah, good.  a "novelty" in that area I read (80 years!).  made me think, another
benefit of "urban" living - priority when restoring services.

> > > (I think India might be making a moon landing here pretty soon...)
> > this week, fingers crossed.
> Yes! And hopefully this attempt goes better than the last (unfortunate things
> happen, unfortunately).

very much hope the second attempt goes well.  (even if that means (the
insufferable ;-)) Mr Modi gets to beat his chest :-))

> Russia's got a moon mission going too, but I think it has already hit a snag.
> With any luck, it won't be a major setback for them.

from where I'm sitting, it looked a little like Russia was trying to "upstage"
India.  in that sense, "poetic justice".  </shrug>

> > > ...
> > > That's good. Personally, I have at times found it hard to feel alone and
> > > comfortable, even though I live in a rural area. ...
> > ...
> > I envy people who (can afford to) live in, say, Tokyo.  think them real
> > lucky having the products and services of _millions_ on the doorstep.
>
> It would be nice to order a pizza on a whim, or have a package reliably make it
> to my doorstep (and not some post office). But the noise would be too much for
> me, I'm pretty sure.
>
> Would greater access to products & services outweigh the busyness of the place
> for you? Or maybe the busyness is part of the appeal? I can imagine how seeing
> and hearing all the commotion from a cozy apartment would be neat.

I think/know the "hustle + bustle" is part of the appeal.  I struggle to see the
noise problem though.  life == "noise" :-)  I remember (vaguely) hearing
grasshoppers and birdsong when little.  silence is a problem because it implies
perceived threat(s) (in the natural world).  another aspect is the "forgetting
to buy a pint of milk" thing.  happens all too frequently to me, these days, so
if shopping meant a 50 miles round-trip, I'd be in trouble :-).

(re-ordered)
> > > ...
> > > But yeah, I like a good debate, provided all parties are arguing in good faith.
> >
> > yes, in good faith.
> >
> > (that then precludes conversation with about any politician who ever walked the
> > Earth :-))
>
> I'm looking at my country's next presidential election and just shaking my head
> `:/

> ...
> It's been suggested many times that all world leaders should take a bunch of
> mushrooms and meditate on things. It would be great if it helped, but it's also
> said people lacking a conscience are drawn to power, or find it easier to stay
> there, so, idk.

:-)  that would be kind of irresponsible too, I'd think that many of those
"leaders" could be vulnerable afterwards, depressed, suicidal, some without
doubt.  how about just "cookies" and MJ Cole's 'Sincere' as background during
debates ?  </grin>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MJ_Cole>

> I read the news almost every day, but I try not to get too upset about it all.

fwiw, I used to be a "news junkie", papers and (BBC) Radio 4.  but, I kept
getting upset.  so I've made changes[*].  like people recommend to do with caged
parrots and other social birds, I leave the radio on, 24/7, just above audible
or "volume up" :-), on a music station[**].  works a treat.

[*] I still "allow" myself 15/20 minutes daily on a news channel, but find more
and more days where I don't bother.
[**] BBC Radio 6Music.  on DAB here, your side of the pond would require
streaming I guess.

> The song that really made me like the guy is "Some Sunsick Day." It seems to be
> about a species that experiences a great disaster, yet manages to rebuild their
> society. Happy and sad.

</phew> ;-) and thanks.

regards, jr.

[Samuel B ] Re: The ghost of a box [959 days 9 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Sun, 20 Aug 2023 21:55:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:

Yay, power's back on! It got knocked out last night, thanks to Tropical Storm
Hilary.

> > But yeah, I like a good debate, provided all parties are arguing in good faith.
>
> yes, in good faith.
>
> (that then precludes conversation with about any politician who ever walked the
> Earth :-))

I'm looking at my country's next presidential election and just shaking my head
`:/

> > ...
> > > re space, there's plenty of it :-)
> > We should colonize it, truly.
>
> oh man, I misunderstood, completely.  I'd read it as in "elbow room".

I guess I meant everything... Having personal space is good for the individual,
and having access to outer space can be good for everyone :)

> > But we should be extra careful not to contaminate
> > possible ecosystems. (Ever read the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson?) There
>
> think 'Red' or 'Green', but that must be 20 years ago, longer ?  no memory as
> such.

It's been about 16 years for me, I think. The 'Reds' were adamant about
preserving Mars' ecosystem. The 'Greens' might have been all about greening up
the place, but I can't remember. Just remember it was mainly about the difficult
job of terraforming Mars, and that it was a good book series.

> fwiw, re "Sci-Fi", Iain M Banks (in the 'Culture' books) had peoples who
> gene-engineered themselves to function in vacuum, for periods of time.
>  given that most of space is just that, I like the idea.

That sounds vaguely familiar...

> > (I think India might be making a moon landing here pretty soon...)
>
> this week, fingers crossed.

Yes! And hopefully this attempt goes better than the last (unfortunate things
happen, unfortunately).

Russia's got a moon mission going too, but I think it has already hit a snag.
With any luck, it won't be a major setback for them.

> > ...
> > That's good. Personally, I have at times found it hard to feel alone and
> > comfortable, even though I live in a rural area. (My personal bubble feels
> > really huge sometimes.) The feeling has only gotten worse over the years,
> > especially since Airbnb became a thing. People coming in droves, sometimes
> > playing loud music at night. It's not always bad but I often feel penned-in,
> > since I am not a very outgoing person.
>
> interesting really because, like you, I'd describe myself as not very outgoing,
> yet, I envy people who (can afford to) live in, say, Tokyo.  think them real
> lucky having the products and services of _millions_ on the doorstep.

It would be nice to order a pizza on a whim, or have a package reliably make it
to my doorstep (and not some post office). But the noise would be too much for
me, I'm pretty sure.

Would greater access to products & services outweigh the busyness of the place
for you? Or maybe the busyness is part of the appeal? I can imagine how seeing
and hearing all the commotion from a cozy apartment would be neat.

> > ...
> > I agree with you, and it's very messed up. These are actual people.
> >
> > I was just pointing out a couple possible issues ...
>
> sorry, yes.  it is just that certain issues simply leave me depressed-as-fuck,
> and the vision of 200+ self-interested parties ("nation states"), armed to the
> teeth (except, to their credit, Costa Rica), "negotiating" in times of looming
> crises is one of them.

Yeah, it sucks. There's probably a middle ground somewhere, with borders and
societies being a bit less... discrete. More continuous. I think it might have a
chance of happening, but it seems there are people and organizations
intentionally causing division.

It's been suggested many times that all world leaders should take a bunch of
mushrooms and meditate on things. It would be great if it helped, but it's also
said people lacking a conscience are drawn to power, or find it easier to stay
there, so, idk.

I read the news almost every day, but I try not to get too upset about it all.

> > ...
> > I listened to one of their songs yesterday, and the vocalist seemed very
> > familiar. They had a 1996 album, so I'll give that a listen, since that's the
> > time period in which I heard her last.
>
> :-)  enjoy.
>
> fwiw, "I don't wanna see what's happening outside"..  while I (we, I guess :-))
> can relate to that, the track as such .. lukewarm ?  may have another go as the
> "wikipedia blurb" read quite interesting.

That might be my least favorite song by him, but I can definitely relate to it.

The song that really made me like the guy is "Some Sunsick Day." It seems to be
about a species that experiences a great disaster, yet manages to rebuild their
society. Happy and sad.

Sam

[jr] Re: The ghost of a box [959 days 18 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Sun, 20 Aug 2023 12:40:00 GMT

hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> The word 'diversification' is closer to what I was getting at. Life seems driven
> towards diversity, both in genes and ideas. Maybe it's not its actual purpose
> (is there one?), but it's certainly a result. One could argue we humans are
> doing our best when exploring all sorts of different ideas, while being careful
> not to perpetuate harmful ones. (Maybe I think this way because I prefer reality
> to be interesting, and not like that dark planet from A Wrinkle in Time.)

with you up to and including "result".  mix + mingle freely, ideally.

on the rest, but who decides ?

> ...
> But yeah, I like a good debate, provided all parties are arguing in good faith.

yes, in good faith.

(that then precludes conversation with about any politician who ever walked the
Earth :-))

> ...
> > re space, there's plenty of it :-)
> We should colonize it, truly.

oh man, I misunderstood, completely.  I'd read it as in "elbow room".

> But we should be extra careful not to contaminate
> possible ecosystems. (Ever read the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson?) There

think 'Red' or 'Green', but that must be 20 years ago, longer ?  no memory as
such.

fwiw, re "Sci-Fi", Iain M Banks (in the 'Culture' books) had peoples who
gene-engineered themselves to function in vacuum, for periods of time.
 given that most of space is just that, I like the idea.

> is so much we could do to remove stress from the planet by going outward. So
> much water, so many metals, and a number of power sources are available to us
> out there. (I think India might be making a moon landing here pretty soon...)

this week, fingers crossed.

> ...
> That's good. Personally, I have at times found it hard to feel alone and
> comfortable, even though I live in a rural area. (My personal bubble feels
> really huge sometimes.) The feeling has only gotten worse over the years,
> especially since Airbnb became a thing. People coming in droves, sometimes
> playing loud music at night. It's not always bad but I often feel penned-in,
> since I am not a very outgoing person.

interesting really because, like you, I'd describe myself as not very outgoing,
yet, I envy people who (can afford to) live in, say, Tokyo.  think them real
lucky having the products and services of _millions_ on the doorstep.

> ...
> I agree with you, and it's very messed up. These are actual people.
>
> I was just pointing out a couple possible issues ...

sorry, yes.  it is just that certain issues simply leave me depressed-as-fuck,
and the vision of 200+ self-interested parties ("nation states"), armed to the
teeth (except, to their credit, Costa Rica), "negotiating" in times of looming
crises is one of them.

> ...
> I listened to one of their songs yesterday, and the vocalist seemed very
> familiar. They had a 1996 album, so I'll give that a listen, since that's the
> time period in which I heard her last.

:-)  enjoy.

fwiw, "I don't wanna see what's happening outside"..  while I (we, I guess :-))
can relate to that, the track as such .. lukewarm ?  may have another go as the
"wikipedia blurb" read quite interesting.

regards, jr.

[Samuel B ] Re: The ghost of a box [960 days 8 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Sat, 19 Aug 2023 23:15:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> > ...
> > > balkanising the peoples, ...
> > > (since the Euro symbol creates havoc :-))
> >
> > I agree that we need to be ever mindful that we all share a single globe -- one
> > island in the midst of what may as well be a lifeless space -- and that further
> > fragmentation is not helpful towards keeping ourselves alive and our foundation
> > intact.
>
> yes.  in addition, I think, "we need to be ever mindful" of the fact that each
> and everyone of us is .. an accident of birth.  no one _chose_ which part of the
> planet, or into which family, they got born (cf "The Doors" memorable lyric
> "into this world we're thrown").

Very true, and that fact should probably make everyone humble...

> > But a degree of fragmentation seems unavoidable, perhaps even necessary.
>
> necessary ?  interesting, how so ?

Actually, that was the wrong word for me to use, as 'fragmentation' implies
division and border clashes.

The word 'diversification' is closer to what I was getting at. Life seems driven
towards diversity, both in genes and ideas. Maybe it's not its actual purpose
(is there one?), but it's certainly a result. One could argue we humans are
doing our best when exploring all sorts of different ideas, while being careful
not to perpetuate harmful ones. (Maybe I think this way because I prefer reality
to be interesting, and not like that dark planet from A Wrinkle in Time.)

> > People
> > argue about stupid things, and we need a certain amount of space from each
> > other.
>
> personally, nothing wrong with a good argument.  provided one uses intellect and
> facts, rather than belief and or Heckler&Koch, to win.

No, you're wrong and I'm going to do some defense spending to prove my point! :P

But yeah, I like a good debate, provided all parties are arguing in good faith.
Arguments that devolve into insults and threats are pretty pointless and
generally mentally toxic for everyone.

> re space, there's plenty of it :-)

We should colonize it, truly. But we should be extra careful not to contaminate
possible ecosystems. (Ever read the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson?) There
is so much we could do to remove stress from the planet by going outward. So
much water, so many metals, and a number of power sources are available to us
out there. (I think India might be making a moon landing here pretty soon...)

> also, I find it not difficult to "have space", privacy, in spite of literally
> living "on the high street" in a good sized city.

That's good. Personally, I have at times found it hard to feel alone and
comfortable, even though I live in a rural area. (My personal bubble feels
really huge sometimes.) The feeling has only gotten worse over the years,
especially since Airbnb became a thing. People coming in droves, sometimes
playing loud music at night. It's not always bad but I often feel penned-in,
since I am not a very outgoing person.

> > Also, I think a fully-unified planet would be a ripe breeding ground for
> > the most totalitarian government the world has even seen...
>
> as opposed to the "facist's wet-dream" we "enjoy" now ?  Coolio's "insight"
> comes to mind.  :-)  perhaps, if every person was a citizen of the "one globe",
> we could hold our (one) government to account when lives and human potential get
> wasted in grotesque numbers for no particular reason, eg
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66540039>, "chalking up" another
> "fail".

I agree with you, and it's very messed up. These are actual people.

I was just pointing out a couple possible issues that need addressed, since a
one-world government could either be a very good thing or a very bad thing.

Yeah, it's obvious our current methods are not working. We're headed for a
literal dead end; our present course results in a sterile planet. Plastics
everywhere are causing fertility and reproductive issues, greenhouse gases are
wobbling the spinning plate we call the climate, industrialism is poisoning
everything, ships are driving cetaceans mad enough to beach themselves, etc. As
I said elsewhere, I try not to get too worked up over it anymore, but I can't
help but be disturbed about it all. I may not be able to vote anymore, but at
least I can speak :/

> > I will look [Thievery Corporation] up!
>
> they do look good live too I thought, though "my evidence" is a single (Boston
> ?) concert on YT.

I listened to one of their songs yesterday, and the vocalist seemed very
familiar. They had a 1996 album, so I'll give that a listen, since that's the
time period in which I heard her last.

> > It's psychedelic rock. ...
>
> do you like Goat ?  (they have that "Scandinavian je ne sais quoi" :-))

Haven't heard of them, but will search and bookmark ;)

Sam

[jr] Re: The ghost of a box [960 days 22 hours and 1 minute ago]

Sat, 19 Aug 2023 09:20:00 GMT

hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> > balkanising the peoples, ...
> > (since the Euro symbol creates havoc :-))
>
> I agree that we need to be ever mindful that we all share a single globe -- one
> island in the midst of what may as well be a lifeless space -- and that further
> fragmentation is not helpful towards keeping ourselves alive and our foundation
> intact.

yes.  in addition, I think, "we need to be ever mindful" of the fact that each
and everyone of us is .. an accident of birth.  no one _chose_ which part of the
planet, or into which family, they got born (cf "The Doors" memorable lyric
"into this world we're thrown").

> But a degree of fragmentation seems unavoidable, perhaps even necessary.

necessary ?  interesting, how so ?

> People
> argue about stupid things, and we need a certain amount of space from each
> other.

personally, nothing wrong with a good argument.  provided one uses intellect and
facts, rather than belief and or Heckler&Koch, to win.  re space, there's plenty
of it :-)  also, I find it not difficult to "have space", privacy, in spite of
literally living "on the high street" in a good sized city.

> Also, I think a fully-unified planet would be a ripe breeding ground for
> the most totalitarian government the world has even seen...

as opposed to the "facist's wet-dream" we "enjoy" now ?  Coolio's "insight"
comes to mind.  :-)  perhaps, if every person was a citizen of the "one globe",
we could hold our (one) government to account when lives and human potential get
wasted in grotesque numbers for no particular reason, eg
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66540039>, "chalking up" another
"fail".

> I will look [Thievery Corporation] up!

they do look good live too I thought, though "my evidence" is a single (Boston
?) concert on YT.

> It's psychedelic rock. ...

do you like Goat ?  (they have that "Scandinavian je ne sais quoi" :-))

> Another interesting musician is one named Gorkem Sen.

thanks, another for the "to do" list :-).

regards, jr.

[Samuel B ] Re: The ghost of a box [961 days 8 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Fri, 18 Aug 2023 23:10:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> > ...
> > My country is horrible, ... our military ...
>
> to me the whole idea of (competing) "nation states" is .. farcical, at best.  my
> preference is the "one globe" visible from space.  </shrug>
>
> [...]
>
> given <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthrise>, given it has been well over 50
> years since, I (have to) assume anyone seeing the image old enough and rational
> enough must appreciate that this image shows where "their feet are planted".  my
> argument simply is, if a person is "aware" of the facts and still insists on ..
> balkanising the peoples, that makes them "unfit" in the Darwinian sense.  $0.02
> (since the Euro symbol creates havoc :-))
>

I agree that we need to be ever mindful that we all share a single globe -- one
island in the midst of what may as well be a lifeless space -- and that further
fragmentation is not helpful towards keeping ourselves alive and our foundation
intact.

But a degree of fragmentation seems unavoidable, perhaps even necessary. People
argue about stupid things, and we need a certain amount of space from each
other. Also, I think a fully-unified planet would be a ripe breeding ground for
the most totalitarian government the world has even seen...

> > ...
> > A good song! It has an almost British punk vibe, but I'll admit I don't know the
> > actual genre.
>
> heh, I cannot tell "genre"s either, but "fusion"s can work real well.  (eg
> Thievery Corp. ;-))
>

I will look them up!

> > ...Not sure I have a current favorite happy tune. ...
>
> will try and check out Morgan Delt, thanks,

It's psychedelic rock. He only put out two albums that I know of, but it's
excellent stuff if you're into that sort of thing.

Another interesting musician is one named Gorkem Sen. He invented an instrument
called a yaybahar. This is my favorite performance by him:
https://youtu.be/iQEgSDuijVs

> and yes, Khruangbin, liked "Summer
> Madness" and also a "little desk" session, well, the first two tracks :-).
>
> regards, jr.

Just listened to Summer Madness for the first time. It's nice!

Sam

[jr] Re: The ghost of a box [961 days 17 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:50:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

(probably going to shoot myself in the foot, again, but hey..)

> to me the whole idea of (competing) "nation states" is .. farcical, at best.  my
> preference is the "one globe" visible from space.  </shrug>

given <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthrise>, given it has been well over 50
years since, I (have to) assume anyone seeing the image old enough and rational
enough must appreciate that this image shows where "their feet are planted".  my
argument simply is, if a person is "aware" of the facts and still insists on ..
balkanising the peoples, that makes them "unfit" in the Darwinian sense.  $0.02
(since the Euro symbol creates havoc :-))

regards, jr.

[jr] Re: The ghost of a box [962 days 22 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Thu, 17 Aug 2023 09:05:00 GMT

hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> My country is horrible, ... our military ...

to me the whole idea of (competing) "nation states" is .. farcical, at best.  my
preference is the "one globe" visible from space.  </shrug>

> ...
> A good song! It has an almost British punk vibe, but I'll admit I don't know the
> actual genre.

heh, I cannot tell "genre"s either, but "fusion"s can work real well.  (eg
Thievery Corp. ;-))

> ...Not sure I have a current favorite happy tune. ...

will try and check out Morgan Delt, thanks, and yes, Khruangbin, liked "Summer
Madness" and also a "little desk" session, well, the first two tracks :-).

regards, jr.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: The ghost of a box [964 days and 59 minutes ago]

Wed, 16 Aug 2023 06:22:10 GMT

Op 16/08/2023 om 00:23 schreef Samuel B.:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> Op 14/08/2023 om 02:07 schreef Samuel B.:
>>> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>>>> Interesting news about data cloud storage EU vs US:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66310714
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Thomas
>>>
>>> I was wondering how this might square with Five Eyes... But are there actually
>>> any 5Es members now, after Brexit?
>>>
>>> I suppose the GDPR only helps against commercial data acquisition, at any rate.
>>>
>>> Sam
>>>
>> Probably the Five Eyes were not affected by Brexit as they are/operate
>> supranationally anyway. And nowadays with Nine Eyes or Fourteen Eyes,
>> and whatever else exists out there which we are not/hardly aware of...
>>
>> --
>> Thomas
> 
> Right, the UK is probably still part of Five Eyes. But, since Brexit, the UK is
> no longer in the EU, so... I guess the EU has no part in Five Eyes now?
> 
> But you're probably right, and it' like up to 55 eyes or something by now :P
> 
> Sam
> 
According to Wikipedia, the core countries of the EU (the western ones) 
are part of SSEUR aka "SIGINT Seniors Europe", the Fourteen Eyes I 
mentioned above. It includes the original Five Eyes.

-- 
Thomas

[Samuel B ] Re: The ghost of a box [964 days 8 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Tue, 15 Aug 2023 23:05:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
>
> Taxes Are Stealing EP (Corporate Avenger) (Full EP) (Suburban Noize Records)
> https://vimeo.com/492915351

Nice activist music! Right off the bat it's great, because only truth is true,
and lies just can't stand up to that. (On a related note, it's my opinion that
evil is ultimately stupid, as it destroys its own foundation.)

Sam

[Samuel B ] Re: The ghost of a box [964 days 8 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Tue, 15 Aug 2023 23:05:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>
> > Hopefully you didn't get caught up in all the Vietnam BS (my dad didn't, but I
> > can't remember if he ever told me how he managed to avoid it).
>
> We had a General Dynamics plant in our town, and I remember protests, and big
> "peace symbol" graffiti on buildings, and going to some kind of hippy anti-war
> things with my aunt and uncle.
> My dad was an MP.  _Something_ happened over there - any time I'd bring up
> Vietnam, both of my parents faces ... changed, darkly, and they got real quiet.

I'm guessing they had a clear view of what my country was doing, and it left a
bad taste in their mouths.

Just looked up General Dynamics, and I can see why people were protesting; it's
another MIC appendage.

> > > > ... But the name "Porcelain telephone" stood out as something
> > > > interesting, so I had Bing make an image of it (notice the excess of numbers
on
> > > > the dial, haha).
>
> I used to have one of those sitting on the nightstand next to the Surrealistic
> Pillow on my bed.   :P

Sounds fluffy and soft, like a White Rabbit :)

> > I didn't know Quiet Riot was inspired by another band until recently. It took me
> > til last year before I heard about Slade. My favorites are Far Far Away and My
> > oh My. Such happy tunes.
>
> Slade had some hilarious videos on MTV back in the day.  I used to love them
> when I could sneak a peek on cable at my grandparents' house.

MTV was good a long time ago... It was almost nothing but music videos, once
upon a time.

> I actually got to see QR at a tiny little bar in College Park, MD when I was in
> graduate school.  I got completely polluted and somehow managed to walk home
> halfway across town.  Managed to climb into bed and fall instantly asleep fully
> clothed.  :D
>
> - BW

There's nothing like getting absolutely hammered! (Thank goodness.) My first
time I came home and threw up, and promptly passed out in my denim clothing :S
There's no hiding that, but thank goodness my dad understood -_-

Sam

[Samuel B ] Re: The ghost of a box [964 days 8 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Tue, 15 Aug 2023 22:25:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Op 14/08/2023 om 02:07 schreef Samuel B.:
> > Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> >> Interesting news about data cloud storage EU vs US:
> >>
> >> https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66310714
> >>
> >> --
> >> Thomas
> >
> > I was wondering how this might square with Five Eyes... But are there actually
> > any 5Es members now, after Brexit?
> >
> > I suppose the GDPR only helps against commercial data acquisition, at any rate.
> >
> > Sam
> >
> Probably the Five Eyes were not affected by Brexit as they are/operate
> supranationally anyway. And nowadays with Nine Eyes or Fourteen Eyes,
> and whatever else exists out there which we are not/hardly aware of...
>
> --
> Thomas

Right, the UK is probably still part of Five Eyes. But, since Brexit, the UK is
no longer in the EU, so... I guess the EU has no part in Five Eyes now?

But you're probably right, and it' like up to 55 eyes or something by now :P

Sam

[Samuel B ] Re: The ghost of a box [964 days 9 hours and 1 minute ago]

Tue, 15 Aug 2023 22:20:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> > You just might. That would make you a bit younger than my dad, I'm guessing.
> > Hopefully you didn't get caught up in all the Vietnam BS (my dad didn't, but I
> > can't remember if he ever told me how he managed to avoid it).
>
> not sure what support (at that time, if any) the US of A got from France, but
> "us Europeans" had no hand in that.

It's good you weren't involved. Total shit show based on what I've gathered.

My country is horrible, and it seems like nobody actually learns. It's always
"different this time." But it's not. (I'm guessing online discussions and media
reports are being heavily atroturfed.) Personally, I wish our military would
just pull out from... basically everywhere :(

> > ...
> > Microsoft does suck, and they're getting worse all the time. I paid over $100
> > for Windows 10 Home Edition, and it doesn't even let me stop updates?
>
> I used to "hate" auto-updates, still do.  however, for "life online" it is
> better to have an up-to-date OS, imo (think online banking etc).  suggest: a
> "cheap" laptop where that company (Google, in my case) can "dictate" the s/ware,
> and on one of "your" machines set up a SMB share where you share stuff with the
> laptop.

Don't get me wrong, I think things like Windows Defender updates are good... I
just don't like my settings being changed and reset all the time (e.g. Windows
Ink seems to reset itself at every update, causing my drawing tablet to track
upside down.)

> > ... Such happy tunes.
>
> yes, and .. historical :-).  what is your current "happy tune" ? (like the
> notion)  link to my current, also a "nominee for earworm of the year" ? :-)
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYeTVqbmK9U>
>
> regards, jr.

A good song! It has an almost British punk vibe, but I'll admit I don't know the
actual genre.

Not sure I have a current favorite happy tune. Most of the stuff I've liked
recently is happy on the surface, but not quite so after reading the lyrics. For
instance, Morgan Delt's music for the most part has an upbeat psychedelic rock
vibe, yet is a bit heavy at times. An all-time happy tune for me, however, would
have to be It Comes Right Down to You by It's a Beautiful Day. A 60s psychedelic
band performing a piece that could have been made in the 20s:
https://youtu.be/ddNyahB5GAg

Another band that evokes pleasant feelings is Khruangbin. Their Pitchfork Live
video is mostly great, but I'd wager it's a band most would probably not like,
due to the lack of vocals or something.

Sam

[jr] Re: The ghost of a box [964 days 14 hours and 1 minute ago]

Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:20:00 GMT

hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> You just might. That would make you a bit younger than my dad, I'm guessing.
> Hopefully you didn't get caught up in all the Vietnam BS (my dad didn't, but I
> can't remember if he ever told me how he managed to avoid it).

not sure what support (at that time, if any) the US of A got from France, but
"us Europeans" had no hand in that.

> ...
> Microsoft does suck, and they're getting worse all the time. I paid over $100
> for Windows 10 Home Edition, and it doesn't even let me stop updates?

I used to "hate" auto-updates, still do.  however, for "life online" it is
better to have an up-to-date OS, imo (think online banking etc).  suggest: a
"cheap" laptop where that company (Google, in my case) can "dictate" the s/ware,
and on one of "your" machines set up a SMB share where you share stuff with the
laptop.

> ... Such happy tunes.

yes, and .. historical :-).  what is your current "happy tune" ? (like the
notion)  link to my current, also a "nominee for earworm of the year" ? :-)
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYeTVqbmK9U>

regards, jr.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: The ghost of a box [965 days 1 hour and 6 minutes ago]

Tue, 15 Aug 2023 06:15:39 GMT

Op 14/08/2023 om 02:07 schreef Samuel B.:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> Interesting news about data cloud storage EU vs US:
>>
>> https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66310714
>>
>> --
>> Thomas
> 
> I was wondering how this might square with Five Eyes... But are there actually
> any 5Es members now, after Brexit?
> 
> I suppose the GDPR only helps against commercial data acquisition, at any rate.
> 
> Sam
> 
Probably the Five Eyes were not affected by Brexit as they are/operate 
supranationally anyway. And nowadays with Nine Eyes or Fourteen Eyes, 
and whatever else exists out there which we are not/hardly aware of...

-- 
Thomas

[Bald Eagle] Re: The ghost of a box [965 days 7 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Mon, 14 Aug 2023 23:35:00 GMT

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:

> Hopefully you didn't get caught up in all the Vietnam BS (my dad didn't, but I
> can't remember if he ever told me how he managed to avoid it).

We had a General Dynamics plant in our town, and I remember protests, and big
"peace symbol" graffiti on buildings, and going to some kind of hippy anti-war
things with my aunt and uncle.
My dad was an MP.  _Something_ happened over there - any time I'd bring up
Vietnam, both of my parents faces ... changed, darkly, and they got real quiet.

> > > ... But the name "Porcelain telephone" stood out as something
> > > interesting, so I had Bing make an image of it (notice the excess of numbers on
> > > the dial, haha).

I used to have one of those sitting on the nightstand next to the Surrealistic
Pillow on my bed.   :P

> I didn't know Quiet Riot was inspired by another band until recently. It took me
> til last year before I heard about Slade. My favorites are Far Far Away and My
> oh My. Such happy tunes.

Slade had some hilarious videos on MTV back in the day.  I used to love them
when I could sneak a peek on cable at my grandparents' house.

I actually got to see QR at a tiny little bar in College Park, MD when I was in
graduate school.  I got completely polluted and somehow managed to walk home
halfway across town.  Managed to climb into bed and fall instantly asleep fully
clothed.  :D

- BW

[Bald Eagle] Re: The ghost of a box [965 days 7 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Mon, 14 Aug 2023 23:25:00 GMT

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

> That is a great quote.  My view on advertising has always been this:  When
> I want to buy something, I'll go look for what is the best option.  Until
> then, GTFO of my face.  The more obnoxious the ads are, the less likely I
> am to buy.  Same goes for salespeople - the ones who are pushy don't get
> my business.  The ones who tell me what they do and then leave me alone
> are going to get a look when I have a need I think they can fit.
>
> I got really sick of e-mails from account executives "gently knocking" to
> see if I had 10 minutes to listen to their pitch.  If I don't respond, I
> don't have a need now.  Go away. ;)

Awesome.
Now do it for the government and their unsolicited "services".

Taxes Are Stealing EP (Corporate Avenger) (Full EP) (Suburban Noize Records)
https://vimeo.com/492915351

https://fee.org/resources/not-your-to-give/

My favorite Banksy quote is:
"The greatest crimes in the world are not committed by people breaking the rules
but by people following the rules. It's people who follow orders that drop bombs
and massacre villages."

- BE

[Samuel B ] Re: The ghost of a box [965 days 8 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Mon, 14 Aug 2023 23:00:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> > "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > > ... Ralph Records, Cleopatra..
> >
> > Huh, I haven't heard of them.
>
> no worries, just showing my age :-)  (think I have ~20 years on you)

You just might. That would make you a bit younger than my dad, I'm guessing.
Hopefully you didn't get caught up in all the Vietnam BS (my dad didn't, but I
can't remember if he ever told me how he managed to avoid it).

> > ... But the name "Porcelain telephone" stood out as something
> > interesting, so I had Bing make an image of it (notice the excess of numbers on
> > the dial, haha).
>
> I guess that dial looks about right -- for a company that has so many fingers in
> so many pies.  </grin>

Haha, true.

Funny I should be posting an image made with Microsoft's AI generator,
considering the topic and all. But so far, the adblocker I use seems to be
working just fine on Edge.

Microsoft does suck, and they're getting worse all the time. I paid over $100
for Windows 10 Home Edition, and it doesn't even let me stop updates? I think
I'll be moving on to Linux next time I have to make a choice. Seems like Linux
distros support almost everything I want anyway (Blender, POV-Ray, Gimp,
emulators, etc.), save for maybe one or two Steam games that aren't compatible
with Proton.

> fwiw, I had a look at Quiet Riot.  having always liked Slade, I thought the
> cover of "feel the noise" pretty good.  also liked 'Metal Health' (one 'n', eh
> ?! :-)).
>
> regards, jr.

I didn't know Quiet Riot was inspired by another band until recently. It took me
til last year before I heard about Slade. My favorites are Far Far Away and My
oh My. Such happy tunes.

Sam

[Samuel B ] Re: The ghost of a box [965 days 8 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Mon, 14 Aug 2023 22:40:00 GMT

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Mon,  7 Aug 2023 19:05:23 EDT, Samuel B. wrote:
>
> > You might want to change your mind about that, since I heard
> > Chromium-based browsers will be making it harder (if not impossible) to
> > use ad blockers in the near future.
>
> Pi-Hole, Privoxy, and router-based blocklists work really well most of the
> time here.

Hey Jim. Haven't heard of Privoxy, but I have heard of the other two. Not sure I
could use Pi-Hole in my situation, since I borrow wifi. Besides, I don't have a
Raspberry Pi (and don't know if I could even get one at this point, due to the
shortage).

> There are rare situations where I have to turn them off
> (usually streaming services that *ahem* I PAY FOR AD FREE CONTENT FROM -
> but they can't promote their new show or run the streaming service
> 'bumper' unless I disable it temporarily).

Not sure if you're saying you sail the high seas or go only through the narrow
straits, haha. But, if you're getting ads for a service you paid for, then
that's pretty sucky on the service's part.

> Chrome can suck it.  I like it as a browser, but there will always be a
> way for a mostly ad-free experience.  (I connect my phone to a VPN out of
> my home specifically so I don't have to deal with ads on my phone).

I use Chrome for two things only: Gmail and WebGL stuff. Neither have ads,
except for a few promotions making their way into my inbox. I also might comment
on a YT video once in a blue moon as well, but generally, I try not to use
Chrome.

> > (rant incoming)
> >
> > I'm done with ads. I hate them. I grew up watching them on TV and seeing
> > them in magazines, and I have had my fill. Here's a great Banksy quote
> > about advertising:
>
> That is a great quote.  My view on advertising has always been this:  When
> I want to buy something, I'll go look for what is the best option.  Until
> then, GTFO of my face.  The more obnoxious the ads are, the less likely I
> am to buy.  Same goes for salespeople - the ones who are pushy don't get
> my business.  The ones who tell me what they do and then leave me alone
> are going to get a look when I have a need I think they can fit.

That's a reasonable stance, and it's the same one I hold. But I guess most
people don't feel the same? Otherwise: why would companies use these tactics?
They must be effective :/

Sam

[jr] Re: The ghost of a box [965 days 10 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Mon, 14 Aug 2023 20:50:00 GMT

hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > ... Ralph Records, Cleopatra..
>
> Huh, I haven't heard of them.

no worries, just showing my age :-)  (think I have ~20 years on you)

> ... But the name "Porcelain telephone" stood out as something
> interesting, so I had Bing make an image of it (notice the excess of numbers on
> the dial, haha).

I guess that dial looks about right -- for a company that has so many fingers in
so many pies.  </grin>

> Music is one of those funny things where you're unlikely to easily find another
> person with the same interests as you. (But I'll try to remember Ralph Records
> and do a search.)

yes.

fwiw, I had a look at Quiet Riot.  having always liked Slade, I thought the
cover of "feel the noise" pretty good.  also liked 'Metal Health' (one 'n', eh
?! :-)).

regards, jr.

[Jim Henderson] Re: The ghost of a box [966 days 2 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Mon, 14 Aug 2023 05:11:53 GMT

On Mon,  7 Aug 2023 19:05:23 EDT, Samuel B. wrote:

> You might want to change your mind about that, since I heard
> Chromium-based browsers will be making it harder (if not impossible) to
> use ad blockers in the near future.

Pi-Hole, Privoxy, and router-based blocklists work really well most of the 
time here.  There are rare situations where I have to turn them off 
(usually streaming services that *ahem* I PAY FOR AD FREE CONTENT FROM - 
but they can't promote their new show or run the streaming service 
'bumper' unless I disable it temporarily).

Chrome can suck it.  I like it as a browser, but there will always be a 
way for a mostly ad-free experience.  (I connect my phone to a VPN out of 
my home specifically so I don't have to deal with ads on my phone).

It really shouldn't be necessary to do that, though.

> (rant incoming)
> 
> I'm done with ads. I hate them. I grew up watching them on TV and seeing
> them in magazines, and I have had my fill. Here's a great Banksy quote
> about advertising:

That is a great quote.  My view on advertising has always been this:  When 
I want to buy something, I'll go look for what is the best option.  Until 
then, GTFO of my face.  The more obnoxious the ads are, the less likely I 
am to buy.  Same goes for salespeople - the ones who are pushy don't get 
my business.  The ones who tell me what they do and then leave me alone 
are going to get a look when I have a need I think they can fit.

I got really sick of e-mails from account executives "gently knocking" to 
see if I had 10 minutes to listen to their pitch.  If I don't respond, I 
don't have a need now.  Go away. ;)

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Samuel B ] Re: The ghost of a box [966 days 6 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Mon, 14 Aug 2023 00:55:00 GMT

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> >
> > "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> > > ... west coast. ...
> >
> > Cleopatra..  :-)
>
> Huh, I haven't heard of them.

Just looked up Cleopatra Records. Nothing I recognized at first, but there was
an offshoot responsible for Quiet Riot, a favorite of mine back in the day.

It seems like the company handled a lot of artists, some possibly genre-adjacent
to a band I like: Epica. Omega is my album favorite from them, but it's one of
those "listen only once in a blue moon or have it stuck in your head forever"
types of things.

Sam

[Samuel B ] Re: The ghost of a box [966 days 6 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Mon, 14 Aug 2023 00:35:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>
> > ...  I'm on the west coast. ...
>
> ah, loved (still do) their (few I know of) musical cultures.  Ralph Records,
> Cleopatra..  :-)
>

Huh, I haven't heard of them. But I did look at their Wikipedia page. Saw
nothing I recognized. But the name "Porcelain telephone" stood out as something
interesting, so I had Bing make an image of it (notice the excess of numbers on
the dial, haha).

Music is one of those funny things where you're unlikely to easily find another
person with the same interests as you. (But I'll try to remember Ralph Records
and do a search.)

Sam

[Samuel B ] Re: The ghost of a box [966 days 7 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Mon, 14 Aug 2023 00:10:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Interesting news about data cloud storage EU vs US:
>
> https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66310714
>
> --
> Thomas

I was wondering how this might square with Five Eyes... But are there actually
any 5Es members now, after Brexit?

I suppose the GDPR only helps against commercial data acquisition, at any rate.

Sam

[jr] Re: The ghost of a box [967 days 16 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Sat, 12 Aug 2023 14:35:00 GMT

hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> ... [Banksy] ...
> I was on a fence about the guy for a while, but that quote made me realize that
> other people have the same feelings about these issues as me.

ah, I "fell for him" when I was given Wall & Peace, as a present.

"People who enjoy waving flags don't deserve to have one."

:-)

> ...  I'm on the west coast. ...

ah, loved (still do) their (few I know of) musical cultures.  Ralph Records,
Cleopatra..  :-)

@ TdG
> Interesting news about data cloud storage EU vs US

perfect timing :-), thanks.

regards, jr.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: The ghost of a box [968 days 16 hours and 13 minutes ago]

Fri, 11 Aug 2023 15:08:24 GMT

Interesting news about data cloud storage EU vs US:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66310714

-- 
Thomas

[Samuel B ] Re: The ghost of a box [970 days 5 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Thu, 10 Aug 2023 01:40:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> > "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > > [...] personally, I tend to visit a new URL in an "incognito" window [...]
> >
> > [...] it keeps my searches from being curated. [...]
>
> yes, "curated".  these impersonal "personalisations" have crept in to, it seems,
> every aspect of web access.  thoroughly dislike (mildest :-)) the trend.

It's the internet, you can say "hate" here ;P

> > I'm done with ads. I hate them. I grew up watching them on TV and seeing them in
> > magazines, and I have had my fill.
>
> agree, and here Google really is the major offender, afaict.  I mean, what
> soulless cretin puts advertisements in the middle of (tracks of) an album ?!
> (as happens on YT)

FF with UBlock Origin prevents any such incursions for the time being. And if
you want to listen to the music you like, there are a number of online YouTube
downloaders out there that still work... Plus, I think there's still a way to
support your favorite artists monetarily, apart from YT views :)

> > Here's a great Banksy quote about
> > advertising:
>
> yes, commerce vs ethics.. thanks.  (one of my "firm favourite" artists)

I was on a fence about the guy for a while, but that quote made me realize that
other people have the same feelings about these issues as me.

>
> you replied to Thomas:
>
> > But worst of all are the wars my country wages abroad ... Well, I try
> > not to get too worked up about it but I still feel somewhat responsible,
> > being a US citizen and all.
>
> guess I must be older than you, I think the "not quite wars" the US of A
> conducted in Central-America, more often than not via its Central Intelligence
> Agency, were worse perhaps because undeclared.

I'm in my mid-forties, so not /too/ young. But yes, I know a bit about my
country's undeclared wars. I said "wars" in my previous comment because I refuse
to see them as anything else. When was the last time the US declared war? WWII?
Declarations are meaningless when actions speak otherwise -_-

> but look on the bright side, at least y'all can get cheap cocaine now, by the
> ton :-).

I heard there are killer square groupers on the east coast. Not that I've ever
had any... I'm on the west coast. (I did get a chance to have some once, but I
didn't want my face going all numb in mixed company. Plus, it seems like it's
not all that great anyway...)

> and you do not have to be a US (of A) citizen to feel the responsibility(-ies),
> truly, we all ought to.
>
> regards, jr.

True, but it seems like my country of the US is the biggest exporter of
"democracah." Pax Americana, it's sometimes called :/

Sam

[jr] Re: The ghost of a box [970 days 13 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Wed, 9 Aug 2023 18:10:00 GMT

hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > [...] personally, I tend to visit a new URL in an "incognito" window [...]
>
> This is the way. I do this (in FF), not because I think it it protects me from
> being tracked completely (it doesn't), but because it keeps my searches from
> being curated.

yes, "curated".  these impersonal "personalisations" have crept in to, it seems,
every aspect of web access.  thoroughly dislike (mildest :-)) the trend.

> > :-)  no FF (or TB) here.
> You might want to change your mind about that, since I heard Chromium-based
> browsers will be making it harder (if not impossible) to use ad blockers in the
> near future.
>
> (rant incoming)

:-)  (seeks shelter behind desk)

> I'm done with ads. I hate them. I grew up watching them on TV and seeing them in
> magazines, and I have had my fill.

agree, and here Google really is the major offender, afaict.  I mean, what
soulless cretin puts advertisements in the middle of (tracks of) an album ?!
(as happens on YT)

> Here's a great Banksy quote about
> advertising:

yes, commerce vs ethics.. thanks.  (one of my "firm favourite" artists)

you replied to Thomas:

> But worst of all are the wars my country wages abroad ... Well, I try
> not to get too worked up about it but I still feel somewhat responsible,
> being a US citizen and all.

guess I must be older than you, I think the "not quite wars" the US of A
conducted in Central-America, more often than not via its Central Intelligence
Agency, were worse perhaps because undeclared.  but look on the bright side, at
least y'all can get cheap cocaine now, by the ton :-).

and you do not have to be a US (of A) citizen to feel the responsibility(-ies),
truly, we all ought to.

regards, jr.

[Samuel B ] Re: The ghost of a box [971 days 8 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Tue, 8 Aug 2023 23:15:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Op 08/08/2023 om 01:05 schreef Samuel B.:
>
> > [anti-ad stuff]
>
> Ha Ha! My gospel this! :-)
>
> [note: I /think/ that here in Western Europe, we are a little bit more
> protected from all this than in the US...]
>
> --
> Thomas

I not sure why more people here aren't upset at all the stuff they put up with
day in and day out. The EU definitely seems to have better policies regarding
advertising, privacy, etc.

Here in the US people just take it, for whatever reasons. Everyone is told to
just vote better, but from my point of view, it's truly a good cop/bad cop
scenario... one in which both sides are playing both sides at the same time...
One side (republicans) is pretty much the bad cop, and the other side
(democrats) are the good cop who just "can't get anything done," because the
republicans are always "blocking" their moves. Meanwhile, people are
increasingly unable to afford rent, healthcare and even food (which might be a
good thing in this supersized society :P).

But worst of all are the wars my country wages abroad without nary a vote. I
truly feel bad about places like Syria who are under constant assault by
terrorists, many of whom wear US uniforms or were trained & funded by the very
country claiming to fight a war against terrorism! It's insane that anyone
thinks the US are the good guys. I know there needs to be stability, but with
our countless coups, sanctions which hurt the people and not their governments,
theft of oil... Well, I try not to get too worked up about it but I still feel
somewhat responsible, being a US citizen and all.

Sam

[Thomas de Groot] Re: The ghost of a box [972 days and 42 minutes ago]

Tue, 8 Aug 2023 06:39:28 GMT

Op 08/08/2023 om 01:05 schreef Samuel B.:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> [...] personally, I tend to visit a new URL in an "incognito" window [...]
> 
> This is the way. I do this (in FF), not because I think it it protects me from
> being tracked completely (it doesn't), but because it keeps my searches from
> being curated. It seems like today's web is all about trapping you into a tiny
> box and selling you things it thinks are in your best interests at every turn.
> 
>> :-)  no FF (or TB) here.
> 
> You might want to change your mind about that, since I heard Chromium-based
> browsers will be making it harder (if not impossible) to use ad blockers in the
> near future.
> 
> (rant incoming)
> 
> I'm done with ads. I hate them. I grew up watching them on TV and seeing them in
> magazines, and I have had my fill. Here's a great Banksy quote about
> advertising:
> 
> ~~~
> 
>      "People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life,
> take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall
> buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that
> imply you're not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else.
> They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the
> most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with
> it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you.
> 
>      You, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property
> rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they
> like with total impunity.
> 
>      Fuck that. Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you
> see it or not is yours. It's yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do
> whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock
> someone just threw at your head.
> 
>      You owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially don't owe
> them any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put
> themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, don't even
> start asking for theirs."
> 
> ~~~
> 
> If I lived in the city, I would probably be spray-painting billboards, haha.
> 
> Sam
> 
Ha Ha! My gospel this! :-)

[note: I /think/ that here in Western Europe, we are a little bit more 
protected from all this than in the US...]

-- 
Thomas

[Samuel B ] Re: The ghost of a box [972 days 8 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Mon, 7 Aug 2023 23:10:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> [...] personally, I tend to visit a new URL in an "incognito" window [...]

This is the way. I do this (in FF), not because I think it it protects me from
being tracked completely (it doesn't), but because it keeps my searches from
being curated. It seems like today's web is all about trapping you into a tiny
box and selling you things it thinks are in your best interests at every turn.

> :-)  no FF (or TB) here.

You might want to change your mind about that, since I heard Chromium-based
browsers will be making it harder (if not impossible) to use ad blockers in the
near future.

(rant incoming)

I'm done with ads. I hate them. I grew up watching them on TV and seeing them in
magazines, and I have had my fill. Here's a great Banksy quote about
advertising:

~~~

    "People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life,
take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall
buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that
imply you're not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else.
They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the
most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with
it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you.

    You, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property
rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they
like with total impunity.

    Fuck that. Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you
see it or not is yours. It's yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do
whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock
someone just threw at your head.

    You owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially don't owe
them any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put
themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, don't even
start asking for theirs."

~~~

If I lived in the city, I would probably be spray-painting billboards, haha.

Sam

[Thomas de Groot] Re: The ghost of a box [973 days 16 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Sun, 6 Aug 2023 14:56:31 GMT

Op 1-8-2023 om 13:33 schreef jr:
> hi,
> 
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> ...
>> consumers journal for digital matters, and for years they warn about and
>> give help/advice about these things, particularly privacy. They are very
>> positive about FF and TB and somewhat neutral to negative about Chrome.
>> Google and MS are not really their friends were privacy is concerned
>> obviously...
> 
> they/you are not wrong, all of the "big names", even the geniuses who use a
> rodent with a single button, require one to "hold one's nose" I'd say.
> 
> still, I do pay Google money -- a small amount -- annually, figuring that since
> my data now is actually theirs, they will look after it a little better. ;-)
> 
True. I should correct myself here by stating that they are above all 
criticised because of their own use of private data from their users.

Incidentally, there are at this moment three lawsuits from consumers 
organisations within the EU: One against Facebook which was fined 1.2 
billion Euros In May 2023; one against TikTok, and one against Google. 
The last two are still under way.

-- 
Thomas

[jr] Re: The ghost of a box [978 days 19 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Tue, 1 Aug 2023 11:35:00 GMT

hi,

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> ...
> consumers journal for digital matters, and for years they warn about and
> give help/advice about these things, particularly privacy. They are very
> positive about FF and TB and somewhat neutral to negative about Chrome.
> Google and MS are not really their friends were privacy is concerned
> obviously...

they/you are not wrong, all of the "big names", even the geniuses who use a
rodent with a single button, require one to "hold one's nose" I'd say.

still, I do pay Google money -- a small amount -- annually, figuring that since
my data now is actually theirs, they will look after it a little better. ;-)

regards, jr.

[Jim Henderson] Re: wiki.povray.org ... [979 days 13 hours and 12 minutes ago]

Mon, 31 Jul 2023 18:09:41 GMT

On 30 Jul 2023 21:23:25 -0400, Jim Henderson wrote:

> The example seems to me to say that of ObjectHeight isn't defined,
> define it as 1.  But the directive "#infdef" looks to me to be a typo.

I have corrected that.



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Thomas de Groot] Re: The ghost of a box [980 days and 50 minutes ago]

Mon, 31 Jul 2023 06:31:00 GMT

Op 30/07/2023 om 18:25 schreef jr:
> hi,
> 
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> Op 30-7-2023 om 16:56 schreef jr:
>>> Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>> I am tired of being forced to interact with damn pop-ups just to look at
>>>> every damn website, just because a few people who can't be bothered to
>>>> configure their Web browser are paranoid about their privacy.  (I bet
>>>> they're the same people who use their cell phones to spread conspiracy
>>>> theories about microchips in the vaccines.)
>>>
>>> disagree, frankly.  no one is "forced".  personally, I tend to visit a new URL
>>> in an "incognito" window, and if the first thing I see is a pop-up, I close the
>>> window, done.  fwiw I do think that companies need to up their "ethical game".
>>
>> Btw, Firefox has excellent extensions which suppress pop-ups, cookies,
>> and such. In addition, it has a privacy mode. I am almost never troubled
>> by those things.
> 
> :-)  no FF (or TB) here.  with Chrome I choose to nuke all the stored stuff on
> browser exit/close; bg - I use one instance "permanently", with my Gmail tab,
> some POV-Ray and other reference tabs; I open a new "incognito" window ("privacy
> mode" will be similar I guess) to .. explore.  that leaves cookies I "approve
> of", like eg online banking, in place as the "permanent" window never closes.
> Chrome does have extensions for ad + pop-up "blocking" and such, too, though I
> don't use any.  I have some sympathy for CR's irateness (and no good reply), but
> suspect that your approach of using s/ware to .. defeat the nefarious :-) may
> have little impact wrt encouraging companies to change behaviour (eg to not
> simply store references to themselves and their affiliates "by default"), and
> perhaps further "stokes the arms race".  anyway, </> before it turns into a
> rant.
> 
> (feeling a little too gregarious, must lie down.. ;-))
> 
> 
> regards, jr.
> 
I understand. Nothing is entirely perfect in this world, so we have to 
cope as best we can :-|  I have a subscription here to a non-profit 
consumers journal for digital matters, and for years they warn about and 
give help/advice about these things, particularly privacy. They are very 
positive about FF and TB and somewhat neutral to negative about Chrome. 
Google and MS are not really their friends were privacy is concerned 
obviously...
Things I do additionally is regularly "nuke" (as you say) all the stored 
cookies and such flotsam left behind by the eager watchers, and scan the 
system for any remaining stuff. And - obviously again - I do not use nor 
approach any of the social media (the POV-Ray ng's being the only 
exceptions) nor do I buy if I can help it, online. I firmly believe that 
only strict official regulation can restrict misuse and I certainly 
approve of the European Parliament's actions, especially as the US in 
particular does not seem to do much in that respect (but I may be wrong 
of course). 'Free enterprise', liberalism, and even free speech, have 
their (moral) limits.

-- 
Thomas

[Jim Henderson] Re: wiki.povray.org ... [980 days 5 hours and 58 minutes ago]

Mon, 31 Jul 2023 01:23:25 GMT

On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 14:08:17 EDT, MvGulik wrote:

> Uses "#infdef(..." instead of "#ifdef(..." -- (C vs Pov :-/ )

Do you perhaps mean to say that instead of "#ifdef" it should be 
"#ifndef"?

The example seems to me to say that of ObjectHeight isn't defined, define 
it as 1.  But the directive "#infdef" looks to me to be a typo.



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[MvGulik] wiki.povray.org ... [980 days 13 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Sun, 30 Jul 2023 18:10:00 GMT

Saw no optional path to directly communicate with/to wiki.povray.org.
so its povray.org.

Saw no potential matching povray.org forum.
so off-topic it is.

Don't know the local markups.
so plain text only.

Issue:
Related page: wiki.povray.org/content/HowTo:Use_conditional_structures
Section: The #ifdef and #ifndef, #else and #end constructs
Hiccup: In example

Uses "#infdef(..." instead of "#ifdef(..." -- (C vs Pov :-/ )

That's it.

[jr] Re: The ghost of a box [980 days 14 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Sun, 30 Jul 2023 16:30:00 GMT

hi,

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Op 30-7-2023 om 16:56 schreef jr:
> > Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> >> ...
> >> I am tired of being forced to interact with damn pop-ups just to look at
> >> every damn website, just because a few people who can't be bothered to
> >> configure their Web browser are paranoid about their privacy.  (I bet
> >> they're the same people who use their cell phones to spread conspiracy
> >> theories about microchips in the vaccines.)
> >
> > disagree, frankly.  no one is "forced".  personally, I tend to visit a new URL
> > in an "incognito" window, and if the first thing I see is a pop-up, I close the
> > window, done.  fwiw I do think that companies need to up their "ethical game".
>
> Btw, Firefox has excellent extensions which suppress pop-ups, cookies,
> and such. In addition, it has a privacy mode. I am almost never troubled
> by those things.

:-)  no FF (or TB) here.  with Chrome I choose to nuke all the stored stuff on
browser exit/close; bg - I use one instance "permanently", with my Gmail tab,
some POV-Ray and other reference tabs; I open a new "incognito" window ("privacy
mode" will be similar I guess) to .. explore.  that leaves cookies I "approve
of", like eg online banking, in place as the "permanent" window never closes.
Chrome does have extensions for ad + pop-up "blocking" and such, too, though I
don't use any.  I have some sympathy for CR's irateness (and no good reply), but
suspect that your approach of using s/ware to .. defeat the nefarious :-) may
have little impact wrt encouraging companies to change behaviour (eg to not
simply store references to themselves and their affiliates "by default"), and
perhaps further "stokes the arms race".  anyway, </> before it turns into a
rant.

(feeling a little too gregarious, must lie down.. ;-))

regards, jr.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: The ghost of a box [980 days 15 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Sun, 30 Jul 2023 15:26:33 GMT

Op 30-7-2023 om 16:56 schreef jr:
> hi,
> 
> Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
>> ...
>> P.S. Can you Europeans please tell your parliament to repeal the cookies
>> notification law?  Those pop-ups are as useless as California prop 65
>> cancer warnings--except that the California warnings can be ignored.
> 
> living in the UK I see the same as-useless-as pop-ups.  I guess you'll need to
> re-phrase "you Europeans" as "you Europeans who are part of the European Union".
>   (though pithier wording comes to mind :-))
> 
> 
>> I am tired of being forced to interact with damn pop-ups just to look at
>> every damn website, just because a few people who can't be bothered to
>> configure their Web browser are paranoid about their privacy.  (I bet
>> they're the same people who use their cell phones to spread conspiracy
>> theories about microchips in the vaccines.)
> 
> disagree, frankly.  no one is "forced".  personally, I tend to visit a new URL
> in an "incognito" window, and if the first thing I see is a pop-up, I close the
> window, done.  fwiw I do think that companies need to up their "ethical game".
> ie there is no need for any company to dump _their_ shit in (my) "local
> storage", be it cookies or db, unless and until I do something on their site
> necessitating that store, perhaps put "an item" into the "shopping cart".  "cuts
> both ways".
> 
> 
> regards, jr.
> 

Btw, Firefox has excellent extensions which suppress pop-ups, cookies, 
and such. In addition, it has a privacy mode. I am almost never troubled 
by those things.

-- 
Thomas

[jr] Re: The ghost of a box [980 days 16 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Sun, 30 Jul 2023 15:00:00 GMT

hi,

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> ...
> P.S. Can you Europeans please tell your parliament to repeal the cookies
> notification law?  Those pop-ups are as useless as California prop 65
> cancer warnings--except that the California warnings can be ignored.

living in the UK I see the same as-useless-as pop-ups.  I guess you'll need to
re-phrase "you Europeans" as "you Europeans who are part of the European Union".
 (though pithier wording comes to mind :-))

> I am tired of being forced to interact with damn pop-ups just to look at
> every damn website, just because a few people who can't be bothered to
> configure their Web browser are paranoid about their privacy.  (I bet
> they're the same people who use their cell phones to spread conspiracy
> theories about microchips in the vaccines.)

disagree, frankly.  no one is "forced".  personally, I tend to visit a new URL
in an "incognito" window, and if the first thing I see is a pop-up, I close the
window, done.  fwiw I do think that companies need to up their "ethical game".
ie there is no need for any company to dump _their_ shit in (my) "local
storage", be it cookies or db, unless and until I do something on their site
necessitating that store, perhaps put "an item" into the "shopping cart".  "cuts
both ways".

regards, jr.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: The ghost of a box [980 days 19 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Sun, 30 Jul 2023 11:30:06 GMT

Op 29-7-2023 om 19:35 schreef Cousin Ricky:
> On 2023-07-29 08:34 (-4), Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> Some time ago and entirely by chance, I came across this site/image:
>> https://www.printables.com/model/431413-illusion-cube
> 
> P.S. Can you Europeans please tell your parliament to repeal the cookies
> notification law?  Those pop-ups are as useless as California prop 65
> cancer warnings--except that the California warnings can be ignored.  I
> am tired of being forced to interact with damn pop-ups just to look at
> every damn website, just because a few people who can't be bothered to
> configure their Web browser are paranoid about their privacy.  (I bet
> they're the same people who use their cell phones to spread conspiracy
> theories about microchips in the vaccines.)
> 

What are you complaining about? I just don't see/understand what /your 
web browser/ has to do with /mine/... (or with any settings).

Have a good day.

-- 
Thomas

[Cousin Ricky] Re: The ghost of a box [981 days 13 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Sat, 29 Jul 2023 17:35:58 GMT

On 2023-07-29 08:34 (-4), Thomas de Groot wrote:
> Some time ago and entirely by chance, I came across this site/image:
> https://www.printables.com/model/431413-illusion-cube

P.S. Can you Europeans please tell your parliament to repeal the cookies
notification law?  Those pop-ups are as useless as California prop 65
cancer warnings--except that the California warnings can be ignored.  I
am tired of being forced to interact with damn pop-ups just to look at
every damn website, just because a few people who can't be bothered to
configure their Web browser are paranoid about their privacy.  (I bet
they're the same people who use their cell phones to spread conspiracy
theories about microchips in the vaccines.)

[Jim Henderson] Re: Blast from the past [985 days 11 hours and 1 minute ago]

Tue, 25 Jul 2023 20:20:48 GMT

On Tue, 25 Jul 2023 14:46:30 EDT, Mike Miller wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> I was going through some stuff and found a diskette copy of MORAY 2.0
>> that I had purchased way back when.  It looks like it might actually
>> still function (the ZIP file verifies with no errors).
>>
>> I wonder if I can find my registration key. :D
>>
>> --
>> "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
>> besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
> 
> I have old parallel dongles in a bowl just waiting for me use that
> 30-year-old software again. ...you just never know.  :>)

I used to have a box with old cables and such in it - got rid of it a few 
years back.

Though a couple of the unique ones are still around here somewhere. ;)

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Mike Miller] Re: Blast from the past [985 days 12 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Tue, 25 Jul 2023 18:50:00 GMT

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> I was going through some stuff and found a diskette copy of MORAY 2.0 that
> I had purchased way back when.  It looks like it might actually still
> function (the ZIP file verifies with no errors).
>
> I wonder if I can find my registration key. :D
>
> --
> "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
> besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

I have old parallel dongles in a bowl just waiting for me use that 30-year-old
software again. ...you just never know.  :>)

[Leroy] Re: Blast from the past [985 days 13 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Tue, 25 Jul 2023 18:05:00 GMT

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> I was going through some stuff and found a diskette copy of MORAY 2.0 that
> I had purchased way back when.  It looks like it might actually still
> function (the ZIP file verifies with no errors).
>
> I wonder if I can find my registration key. :D
>
> --
> "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
> besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Good luck, I can never find my keys :)

[Jim Henderson] Blast from the past [986 days 2 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Tue, 25 Jul 2023 05:07:20 GMT

I was going through some stuff and found a diskette copy of MORAY 2.0 that 
I had purchased way back when.  It looks like it might actually still 
function (the ZIP file verifies with no errors).

I wonder if I can find my registration key. :D

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Cousin Ricky] Re: birthday boy [1007 days 14 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Jul 2023 17:15:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> 77 yesterday, doesn't look a day older :-).
> (still looking for other alternative acronym expansions)

"Mendacious," "misanthropic."

[Cousin Ricky] Re: birthday boy [1007 days 14 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Jul 2023 17:15:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> 77 yesterday, doesn't look a day older :-).
> (still looking for other alternative acronym expansions)

I have an alternative word to replace "antique"...

[jr] birthday boy [1026 days 13 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Wed, 14 Jun 2023 17:45:00 GMT

hi,

77 yesterday, doesn't look a day older :-).
(still looking for other alternative acronym expansions)


enjoy, jr.

[jr] Re: More Git weirdness [1063 days 19 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Mon, 8 May 2023 11:40:00 GMT

hi,

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> ...
> Git is so intricate it still has my head spinning.  ...  I still haven't
> figured out how Git is supposed to make my life easier.

my own 'git' usage/knowledge is v basic, I (often need to) use an etext for ref.
<https://drive.google.com/file/d/12lJMJYfrEg3BNV9M70-6tfe7_gYHawsg/view?usp=sharing>

regards, jr.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: More Git weirdness [1064 days 2 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Mon, 8 May 2023 04:51:10 GMT

On 2023-05-07 15:26 (-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
> I have an old file that I want to update, so I created a branch.  I
> checkout the branch, and edit the file.  But when I checkout branch
> 'main', I find that the file is edited there as well!  I do a git
> restore on main, and the file is also restored in the branch.  It's as
> if there are no branches at all.  What's going on?
I think I have an inkling of what's going on.  Part of my problem is
that it was hard to find Web search keywords that didn't give me complex
instructions on how to accomplish *precisely* what I'm trying to avoid
happening.  But what I managed to find is that it has to do with working
directories and indexes and stages and commits and... somehow the stash
command is supposed to help me with this, but before I touch that, I
think I show know what the hell is going on.  And I don't.

Git is so intricate it still has my head spinning.  I'm glad I saved
intermediate copies of the file, otherwise I could have lost everything
I did since my last backup.  I still haven't figured out how Git is
supposed to make my life easier.

[Cousin Ricky] More Git weirdness [1064 days 11 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Sun, 7 May 2023 19:26:08 GMT

I have an old file that I want to update, so I created a branch.  I
checkout the branch, and edit the file.  But when I checkout branch
'main', I find that the file is edited there as well!  I do a git
restore on main, and the file is also restored in the branch.  It's as
if there are no branches at all.  What's going on?

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Mesh rendering artifacts [1099 days 13 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Sun, 2 Apr 2023 17:47:18 GMT

On 2023-04-01 16:29 (-4), yesbird wrote:
> On 01/04/2023 22:33, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> 
> PS: Something is wrong with your address, was not able to replay without
> editing it:
> Cousin Ricky <rickysttATyahooDOTcom>

That's because I posted through the Web interface, which munges any
email address it finds.  It's an anti-spam measure.

[yesbird] Re: Mesh rendering artifacts [1100 days 10 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Sat, 1 Apr 2023 20:32:36 GMT

On 01/04/2023 23:29, yesbird wrote:
> Thanks, interesting story and good channel, few more, my favorites:
Sorry,
https://progrock.com
https://www.deliciousagony.com
--
YB

[yesbird] Re: Mesh rendering artifacts [1100 days 10 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Sat, 1 Apr 2023 20:30:08 GMT

On 01/04/2023 22:33, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> https://youtu.be/cyRv_R5rngU

Thanks, interesting story and good channel, few more, my favorites:

https://progrock.comhttps://www.deliciousagony.com
https://www.morow.com
https://www.progulus.com
https://progzilla.com
http://www.prog.fm

PS: Something is wrong with your address, was not able to replay without
editing it:
Cousin Ricky <rickysttATyahooDOTcom>
--
YB

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Mesh rendering artifacts [1100 days 11 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Sat, 1 Apr 2023 19:35:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
>
> Don't Cry, Ricky, I know that you threw down the gauntlet in the Heat of The
> Moment.
>
> Maybe the next doodle will be a mug of Egyptian Tea, with more of an "Asia"
> Roger Dean theme.
>
> Only Time Will Tell.

https://youtu.be/cyRv_R5rngU

[Thomas de Groot] Re: as POV-Ray is a much about light as anything... [1107 days 18 hours and 57 minutes ago]

Sat, 25 Mar 2023 12:24:47 GMT

Op 25-3-2023 om 10:16 schreef ingo:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> Op 24-3-2023 om 14:41 schreef ingo:
>> [...] inspirational [...]
>>
> 
> The whole site is inspirational to me. Not that every building on it is
> "beautiful", but almost every one has details that make me think.
> 
> This mosque is one I'd like to see in reality. The way the light comes in
> through the roof. The openness of the brickwork (braziliaans verband). It feels
> like perfect for the climate there.
> 
>
https://www.archdaily.com/998433/shah-muhammad-mohshin-khan-mausoleum-sthapotik?ad_medium=gallery
> 
> ingo
> 

Indeed, yes. That mosque is beautiful!

I have an interest in architecture, so I bookmark the site for regular 
visits. Thanks again.

-- 
Thomas

[ingo] Re: as POV-Ray is a much about light as anything... [1107 days 22 hours and 1 minute ago]

Sat, 25 Mar 2023 09:20:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Op 24-3-2023 om 14:41 schreef ingo:
> [...] inspirational [...]
>

The whole site is inspirational to me. Not that every building on it is
"beautiful", but almost every one has details that make me think.

This mosque is one I'd like to see in reality. The way the light comes in
through the roof. The openness of the brickwork (braziliaans verband). It feels
like perfect for the climate there.

https://www.archdaily.com/998433/shah-muhammad-mohshin-khan-mausoleum-sthapotik?ad_medium=gallery

ingo

[Thomas de Groot] Re: as POV-Ray is a much about light as anything... [1108 days 15 hours and 2 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Mar 2023 16:19:25 GMT

Op 24-3-2023 om 14:41 schreef ingo:
>
https://www.archdaily.com/998415/7-lighting-trends-and-how-they-are-illuminating-todays-interior-spaces?ad_medium=galle
> ry
> 
> for inspiration.
> 
> ingo
> 

Thanks Ingo. Very inspirational indeed.

-- 
Thomas

[William F Pokorny] Re: as POV-Ray is a much about light as anything... [1108 days 17 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Mar 2023 14:06:17 GMT

On 3/24/23 09:41, ingo wrote:
>
https://www.archdaily.com/998415/7-lighting-trends-and-how-they-are-illuminating-todays-interior-spaces?ad_medium=galle
> ry
> 
> for inspiration.
> 
> ingo
> 

Cool. Thanks for the link.

Bill P.

[ingo] as POV-Ray is a much about light as anything else, [1108 days 17 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Mar 2023 13:45:00 GMT

https://www.archdaily.com/998415/7-lighting-trends-and-how-they-are-illuminating-todays-interior-spaces?ad_medium=galle
ry

for inspiration.

ingo

[Pekka Aho] Re: An old music project [1131 days 8 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Wed, 1 Mar 2023 22:35:00 GMT

Heyas! Still here, well and alive! Haven't been POVing much as of late, as been
quite busy with work, martial arts training and also this old music project of
mine. For all releases so far (new EP just came out!), feel free to check out my
Bandcamp page at:

-> https://talvisynth.bandcamp.com/

Cheers! :)

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Mesh rendering artifacts [1153 days 16 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Tue, 7 Feb 2023 14:56:36 GMT

On 2023-02-04 17:19 (-4), Bald Eagle wrote:
> 
> I probably have 50 lb of coffee in the next room, but I also have enough tea of
> all types to fill one of the larger kitchen cabinets.

I love teas.  I just wish the bottled teas didn't have so much damned
sugar in them.  I don't know how Japanese tourists survive in this
hemisphere.

> Mate de coca was my preferred beverage in Peru, because apparently their version
> of coffee "Cafe Americano" was to pour some kind of coffee syrup that looked
> like the metal can of Hershey's syrup from the 70's into hot water.   Nope.

Mate de coca was a life saver when I visited Bolivia.  The hotels have
the stuff waiting in the lobby to deal with the tourists' altitude
sickness.  Though, I did recall the fate of a couple of American
tourists who crossed the line of legality (Butch and Sundance), so I
made sure to stay on the mate side of Bolivian law.

I'm just glad there was no police raid on the apartment I had recently
vacated.  Turns out my ex-roommate was a cocaine dealer.  (The signs
were there, but I completely missed them.)  If the police had picked me
up, I would have failed the drug test, and I would not have been able to
get off by ratting out my dealer.

(The War on Drugs is an utter joke.)

A bit of a lack of self awareness there: my ex-roommate had chided ME
for betraying the black race simply because I didn't like rap music,
yet, here he was getting black people hooked on coke.

> Don't Cry, Ricky, I know that you threw down the gauntlet in the Heat of The
> Moment.
> 
> Maybe the next doodle will be a mug of Egyptian Tea, with more of an "Asia"
> Roger Dean theme.
> 
> Only Time Will Tell.

Ah, three more songs to add to my karaoke wish list!

[Bald Eagle] Re: Mesh rendering artifacts [1156 days 9 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Sat, 4 Feb 2023 21:25:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:

> In the mood for some controversy?

On _this_ forum?  Surely such a thing never happens.

> I say no to coffee.  I hate the shit.

Hey - you do whatever works for you.

I probably have 50 lb of coffee in the next room, but I also have enough tea of
all types to fill one of the larger kitchen cabinets.
Mate de coca was my preferred beverage in Peru, because apparently their version
of coffee "Cafe Americano" was to pour some kind of coffee syrup that looked
like the metal can of Hershey's syrup from the 70's into hot water.   Nope.

Don't Cry, Ricky, I know that you threw down the gauntlet in the Heat of The
Moment.

Maybe the next doodle will be a mug of Egyptian Tea, with more of an "Asia"
Roger Dean theme.

Only Time Will Tell.

- BE

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Mesh rendering artifacts [1156 days 10 hours and 22 minutes ago]

Sat, 4 Feb 2023 20:59:26 GMT

On 2023-02-04 15:17 (-4), Bald Eagle wrote:
> 
> But for the moment, here's just a simple doodle.

In the mood for some controversy?

I say no to coffee.  I hate the shit.

[Dave Blandston] Artificial Intelligence Photo Enhancement [1191 days 5 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Sun, 1 Jan 2023 01:45:00 GMT

Howdy Everyone,

I watched this video about a software product that uses artificial intelligence
to improve pictures of faces https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORtYP8NW4T0 and
gave it a try here https://huggingface.co/spaces/sczhou/CodeFormer

The results are astounding!

Have a great day folks!

Kind regards,
Dave Blandston

[Bald Eagle] Continuity of splines. [1209 days 11 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Tue, 13 Dec 2022 19:40:00 GMT

Freya Holmer just posted a video that does a great job of covering and going
beyond what I did in the Bezier / Bernstein monograph.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvPPXbo87ds

Freya also has a math libray on github, which some folks might like to port from
C# to SDL.

[Mr] Re: A Rant!! [1265 days 20 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Tue, 18 Oct 2022 11:00:00 GMT

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I like to say "I really appreciate this forum!"
> People should say it every day and every night before they go to bed.
> I just came from a forum that was the worst I've every seen!
> It wasn't organize, no subjects, everything was just thrown together.
> You had to read through a lot of crap and never find what your looking for.
>
> Who every set this forum up is a frigging genus.
>
> THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!!

I also love it. thanks for opening up. :-)

[jr] Re: A Rant!! [1273 days 21 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Mon, 10 Oct 2022 10:05:00 GMT

hi,

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> Who every set this forum up is a frigging genus.

+1.


regards, jr.

[Leroy] A Rant!! [1275 days 10 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Sat, 8 Oct 2022 20:50:00 GMT

I like to say "I really appreciate this forum!"
People should say it every day and every night before they go to bed.
I just came from a forum that was the worst I've every seen!
It wasn't organize, no subjects, everything was just thrown together.
You had to read through a lot of crap and never find what your looking for.

Who every set this forum up is a frigging genus.

THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!!

[Lars R ] "Minimalistic" intersection of 3 cubes [1307 days 22 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Tue, 6 Sep 2022 08:36:33 GMT

While writing a generator for "rocks" (usable e.g. to render asteroids
etc. ;-) ) I got an interesting optimization problem:

3 concentric, but randomly rotated, cubes of the same size intersects
each other. Which rotataions would give an object with minimal volume or
minimal circumsphere?

This way:

intersection
{
	box { -1, +1 } // not rotated
	box { -1, +1 rotate<X1, Y1, Z1> }
	box [ -1, +1 rotate<X2, Y2, Z2> }
}

I wrote a program that choose X1,Y1,Z1, X2,Y2,Z2 randomly, and it
renders interesting objects, especially when the 3 cubes got different
colors, but I'd like to see how the optimal solution would look like and
how it can be calculated arithmetically.

Any ideas, suggestions?


	Lars R.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: Space Image [1323 days and 46 minutes ago]

Mon, 22 Aug 2022 06:35:24 GMT

Op 21/08/2022 om 13:44 schreef Bald Eagle:
> Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
>> On 2022-08-06 09:06 (-4), Bald Eagle wrote:
>>>
>>>
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/scientist-etienne-klein-posts-webb-telescope-image-star-actually-slice-chorizo-apology
> /
>>
>> I did some math, and calculated that Webb's mirror would have to be 2000
>> times wider in order to get chorizo-level detail of Proxima Centauri at
>> Webb's shortest wavelength.  Longer wavelengths would require an even
>> larger mirror.
>>
>> (Webb's resolution at 2 micron infrared is 0.1 arc seconds, and Proxima
>> Centauri spans 0.001 arc seconds at 4.2 light years.)
> 
> "chorizo-level detail"   :D
> Is that with or without antialiasing?
> 

LOL

Maybe we could make a 3d-copy of Webb, translate it 2000 km from the 
original and synchronise both, like we already do with radio 
telescopes... :-)

[would the tandem fit into the L2 area, though?]

-- 
Thomas

[Bald Eagle] Re: Space Image [1323 days 19 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Sun, 21 Aug 2022 11:45:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> On 2022-08-06 09:06 (-4), Bald Eagle wrote:
> >
> >
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/scientist-etienne-klein-posts-webb-telescope-image-star-actually-slice-chorizo-apology
/
>
> I did some math, and calculated that Webb's mirror would have to be 2000
> times wider in order to get chorizo-level detail of Proxima Centauri at
> Webb's shortest wavelength.  Longer wavelengths would require an even
> larger mirror.
>
> (Webb's resolution at 2 micron infrared is 0.1 arc seconds, and Proxima
> Centauri spans 0.001 arc seconds at 4.2 light years.)

"chorizo-level detail"   :D
Is that with or without antialiasing?

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Space Image [1324 days 6 hours and 3 minutes ago]

Sun, 21 Aug 2022 01:18:13 GMT

On 2022-08-06 09:06 (-4), Bald Eagle wrote:
> 
>
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/scientist-etienne-klein-posts-webb-telescope-image-star-actually-slice-chorizo-apology/

I did some math, and calculated that Webb's mirror would have to be 2000
times wider in order to get chorizo-level detail of Proxima Centauri at
Webb's shortest wavelength.  Longer wavelengths would require an even
larger mirror.

(Webb's resolution at 2 micron infrared is 0.1 arc seconds, and Proxima
Centauri spans 0.001 arc seconds at 4.2 light years.)

[Thorsten] Re: Website/forum link colors [1327 days 21 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Aug 2022 10:17:34 GMT

On 17.08.2022 11:58, Chris Cason wrote:
> We're talking about a color scheme that has not changed in literally 20 
> years. Clearly if I was worried about keeping up with what everyone else 
> was doing I would have done so sometime in the last two decades ...

In deed. It would be possible to add a third style for it on the 
"Personalise" page where the underlining can be enabled, but I really 
don't remember how much work this would end up being on other ends of 
the old PHP code...

Thorsten

[Chris Cason] Re: Website/forum link colors [1327 days 21 hours and 18 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Aug 2022 10:03:14 GMT

On 17/08/2022 06:27, Bald Eagle wrote:
> because having used the Internet since its inception (using Lynx and Netscape's
Mosaic), I remember

As have I. I set up povray.org in 1994, after all, and Lynx/Mosaic were 
my first browsers ...

> 2.  Whatever's going on NOW is ... trendy.  And who cares.   This is our little
> corner of the internet, and it's *** POV-Ray ***.   Do we EVER do anything the
> way everyone else does it?
> 
> 3.   "Be yourself.  Be different.  Celebrate diversity.  Carve out your own
> niche.  Do it your own unique way.  You do you."

We're talking about a color scheme that has not changed in literally 20 
years. Clearly if I was worried about keeping up with what everyone else 
was doing I would have done so sometime in the last two decades ...

Given the colors have been as they are for so long it should hardly be 
surprising to anyone that I would look around the web to see what others 
are doing so I can understand what is "wrong" about our styles, in the 
belief that perhaps things have changed and what people are expecting 
from povray.org *no longer matches* expectations that people have 
learned from other sites.

I think this is not an unreasonable belief to have had since what else 
am I supposed to think? That it's been OK for 20 years but now it's not 
OK for some reason totally *unrelated* to anything that's happened 
elsewhere in the intarwebs?

So when I go looking around the web for examples that show why I'm doing 
it *wrong* I just end up confused. As I pointed out even the W3C 
(standard-setters of the web) use similarly close shades between visited 
& unvisited.

I'm not just going to yoink some random colour into the stylesheet 
unless I know it's going to work for everyone AND be consistent with the 
overall theme for the site, because if there's one thing I've learned 
from working on this project for the last quarter-century is that I can 
never make everyone happy and changing something to suit one group of 
people will inevitably make another group unhappy.

If someone wants to provide a mock-up of a page with modified colors 
that fits into the existing theme but also makes the difference more 
obvious then please feel free and I'll look at it. I'm open to changing 
it. But y'all need to give me a bit of help here if you want it to happen.

-- Chris

[Thomas de Groot] Re: Website/forum link colors [1327 days 23 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Aug 2022 08:05:40 GMT

Op 17-8-2022 om 08:59 schreef jr:
> 
> istr seeing blue and magenta (visited) links in the late 90s/turn of the
> century, and think they would work (well), even with the ledger "lines".
> 

If this Old Guy may be allowed to add his unworthy contribution, I agree 
with jr. I am using Startpage (www.startpage.com) on Firefox, and with 
the dark background option switched on, which agrees better with my old 
eyes. Blue and magenta (I think) are used there to my entire satisfaction.

-- 
Thomas

[jr] Re: Website/forum link colors [1328 days and 21 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Aug 2022 07:00:00 GMT

hi,

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> ...
> I think a complicating factor is that the alternating "ledger" highlighting
> colors are white and blue - which enhances the contrast enough in some cases,
> and washes it out in others.

istr seeing blue and magenta (visited) links in the late 90s/turn of the
century, and think they would work (well), even with the ledger "lines".

regards, jr.

[Jim Henderson] Re: Website/forum link colors [1328 days 9 hours and 52 minutes ago]

Tue, 16 Aug 2022 21:29:02 GMT

On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 01:11:27 +1000, Chris Cason wrote:

> I'm open to changing the visited link colour, but I'd prefer first to
> see examples of some sites where a full blue unvisited link (which is
> what we use) is used alongside a visibly different but not 'clashing'
> visited link colour.

Here's a good reference for web accessibility:

https://webaim.org/blog/wcag-2-0-and-link-colors/

Looks like the recommendation is either a colour that's specific for 
links, or a colour scheme that's dependent on the state.  No real best 
practice for using it or not (Google uses the state and indicates as such; 
Microsoft doesn't).

I think a visited link colour change is helpful, as often times I visit a 
site and am trying to remember where I saw something, and the visual 
indicator can be helpful to track that down.

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Bald Eagle] Re: Website/forum link colors [1328 days 10 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Tue, 16 Aug 2022 20:30:00 GMT

Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:

> This is a topic I've looked at a few times over the last year or so, and
> each time I come back unsure about whether it should change or not as
> current practice seems to be to not strongly differentiate visited from
> non-visited. Even http://www.w3.org/ has only slight visual difference
> between the two states. Same goes for http://www.mozilla.org/ and

Perhaps that's what it is like NOW, but:

1.  I feel like we're all being increasingly gaslighted, because having used the
Internet since its inception (using Lynx and Netscape's Mosaic), I remember
there being an unmistakable difference.  Like, bright blue underlined links, and
nearly red visited links.

2.  Whatever's going on NOW is ... trendy.  And who cares.   This is our little
corner of the internet, and it's *** POV-Ray ***.   Do we EVER do anything the
way everyone else does it?

3.   "Be yourself.  Be different.  Celebrate diversity.  Carve out your own
niche.  Do it your own unique way.  You do you."

 ...

"WAIT!!!   NOOooooooo!   Not THAT WAY!!!!!"

:|

> Some prominent sites (e.g. Microsoft.com, Apple.com) have *no* visual
> difference (at least for me, using FireFox).

Apple sucks.  If we want to emulate them, let's start stealing code libraries,
bump up the price of our product, start a child labor coding sweatshop, and
install suicide nets.

Microsoft sucks.  If we want to emulate them, we need to have WAaaaaaay more
updates, break things, change things, ignore user feedback, have our product
fail to function and crash the entire OS on a regular basis, be WAaaaaaaaay
larger on install, have 37 different versions and a very expensive Enterprise
version, licensing, keys, bloat, spyware, corporate greed, and end-of-life
versions where we no longer care about support or backward compatibility.

> I'm open to changing the visited link colour, but I'd prefer first to
> see examples of some sites where a full blue unvisited link (which is
> what we use) is used alongside a visibly different but not 'clashing'
> visited link colour.
>
> -- Chris

Google.
"By default, most search engines such as Google and Bing mark results you
clicked through as purple and results unvisited as blue"
https://www.softwarehow.com/change-color-visited-links/

Brave search engine.

Stack Exchange.
https://ux.stackexchange.com/questions/136432/should-visited-and-unvisited-links-be-of-different-color

Nielsen Norman Group
World Leaders in Research-Based User Experience
https://www.nngroup.com/articles/change-the-color-of-visited-links/

https://usabilitygeek.com/hyperlink-usability-guidelines-usable-links/
"Visited links: Let users know which links they have clicked on by toning done
to a ‘worn’ hue, or red-shifting the colour, as google search does from
bright
blue to purple-ish colour."

https://blog.tbhcreative.com/2019/12/user-friendly-link-state-design.html
"Visited state
The visited state indicates a link that you have previously visited in your
browser. It’s another often-overlooked state that is beneficial to optimize for
usability.

Google helpfully displays visited links in different styles to make it clear
which search results you’ve already clicked on.

Visited states help to prevent user frustration. If users can quickly tell the
difference between a fresh link and one they’ve already clicked just by looking
at them, they can better navigate through content. This is especially useful on
websites with many links, such as a wiki site, or within a page with search
results."

https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/02/the-definitive-guide-to-styling-web-links/
"DON’T FORGET ABOUT VISITED LINKS #
Visited links are often overlooked, but they are very helpful, especially on
larger websites. Knowing where they’ve been before is helpful for users, whether
because they want to avoid pages they’ve visited or to make a point of visiting
them again.

Give visited links a darker shade of color, so that they stand out but aren’t as
obvious as unvisited links."

https://marketingexperiments.com/conversion-marketing/what-color-should-you-use-for-visited-links

At first I thought it was my computer, or monitor, or some (@#$%&*!) "setting",
and then, I was just a touch concerned about:
"blue is not a panacea for accessibility problems; elderly users actually have
greater trouble perceiving blue, according to a study by Karyn Graves. She also
points out that “the eye gets progressively less sensitive to the colour blue
compared to other colours over time, and so the ability to focus on blue
decreases with age.” As the online population ages, sites geared towards full
accessibility will begin to have the edge."

.... not for myself, of course, but for ... you know ... some of our more senior
forum members...   :D

* * *BUT THEN * * *

I also just asked my 12-yo.
"What color are new links and visited links?"
"New are blue, visited are orange."
(Show him the POV-Ray message digest....)
(He face-palms and shakes his head.)

So let's get hip with the younger generation and get all retro and vintage with
those blue and orange/purple links.  'Cause Orange is the new (insufficiently)
Faded Blue.

BE out.

[Chris Cason] Re: Website/forum link colors [1328 days 16 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Tue, 16 Aug 2022 15:12:15 GMT

On 11/08/2022 07:11, Bald Eagle wrote:
> After dealing with much computer chaos, I am using a desktop and an external
> monitor (HP V241).
> 
> Also using Brave browser.
> 
> I have noticed that the difference in color between the new links and the
> previously visited links is so small as to be nearly nonexistent.  I can barely
> tell the difference, and if the sun is coming in the window, or any other
> complicating factor, I have NO idea what is new and what is not.

This is a topic I've looked at a few times over the last year or so, and 
each time I come back unsure about whether it should change or not as 
current practice seems to be to not strongly differentiate visited from 
non-visited. Even http://www.w3.org/ has only slight visual difference 
between the two states. Same goes for http://www.mozilla.org/ and 
https://en.wikipedia.org/.

Some prominent sites (e.g. Microsoft.com, Apple.com) have *no* visual 
difference (at least for me, using FireFox).

I'm open to changing the visited link colour, but I'd prefer first to 
see examples of some sites where a full blue unvisited link (which is 
what we use) is used alongside a visibly different but not 'clashing' 
visited link colour.

-- Chris

[Jim Henderson] Re: Website/forum link colors [1328 days 16 hours and 12 minutes ago]

Tue, 16 Aug 2022 15:09:38 GMT

On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 13:15:52 +0200, Thorsten wrote:

> On 10.08.2022 23:11, Bald Eagle wrote:
>> After dealing with much computer chaos, I am using a desktop and an
>> external monitor (HP V241).
>> 
>> Also using Brave browser.
>> 
>> I have noticed that the difference in color between the new links and
>> the previously visited links is so small as to be nearly nonexistent. 
>> I can barely tell the difference, and if the sun is coming in the
>> window, or any other complicating factor, I have NO idea what is new
>> and what is not.
>> 
>> Perhaps this is the CSS thing that was mentioned way back.
>> Anyone else experiencing trouble with this?
> 
> Go to the "Personalise" page to get the links underlined or configure
> the colors.

Link colour isn't in the "Personalize" settings, just quoted text colour; 
and it's for the web forums only, not site-wide (as far as I can tell).

Jim

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Thorsten] Re: Website/forum link colors [1328 days 20 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Tue, 16 Aug 2022 11:15:53 GMT

On 10.08.2022 23:11, Bald Eagle wrote:
> After dealing with much computer chaos, I am using a desktop and an external
> monitor (HP V241).
> 
> Also using Brave browser.
> 
> I have noticed that the difference in color between the new links and the
> previously visited links is so small as to be nearly nonexistent.  I can barely
> tell the difference, and if the sun is coming in the window, or any other
> complicating factor, I have NO idea what is new and what is not.
> 
> Perhaps this is the CSS thing that was mentioned way back.
> Anyone else experiencing trouble with this?

Go to the "Personalise" page to get the links underlined or configure 
the colors.

	Thorsten

[Jim Henderson] Re: Website/forum link colors [1329 days 8 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Mon, 15 Aug 2022 23:17:01 GMT

On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 19:14:35 EDT, Bald Eagle wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
>> It seems that for accessibility reasons, the colours in use should not
>> be closely related, but should be (as Bald Eagle says) "easily
>> differentiated".  Two different shades of blue for people with various
>> colour-blindness could be problematic.  I don't have such an
>> impairment, but the two different shades of blue are still pretty
>> difficult to distinguish at a glance.
> 
> Didn't think of a color blindness issue.   Of course, one wonders what
> all of the POV-Ray renders would look like in that case.   :O ("POV-Ray
> undergrad ...   put down that beer and get over here, I have a project
> for you...")

I've got an app on my phone that actually can show you want the colors 
look like to people with various types of colour blindness - it's called 
CVSimulator.

> I think a complicating factor is that the alternating "ledger"
> highlighting colors are white and blue - which enhances the contrast
> enough in some cases, and washes it out in others.
> 
> I am still perplexed as to why it "suddenly" happened when switching to
> a new system.   The HP V241 was usually the "nice" monitor with the
> rich, vibrant colors and better contrast in comparison to the laptop
> monitor(s).  Now it's all I'm using, but I don't recall ever seeing the
> issue when using it as a dual display and moving the browser window over
> to the external monitor.   It's puzzling.

I'd noticed it in the past, but never really thought to say anything about 
it.

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Bald Eagle] Re: Website/forum link colors [1329 days 8 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Mon, 15 Aug 2022 23:15:00 GMT

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

> It seems that for accessibility reasons, the colours in use should not be
> closely related, but should be (as Bald Eagle says) "easily
> differentiated".  Two different shades of blue for people with various
> colour-blindness could be problematic.  I don't have such an impairment,
> but the two different shades of blue are still pretty difficult to
> distinguish at a glance.

Didn't think of a color blindness issue.   Of course, one wonders what all of
the POV-Ray renders would look like in that case.   :O
("POV-Ray undergrad ...   put down that beer and get over here, I have a project
for you...")

I think a complicating factor is that the alternating "ledger" highlighting
colors are white and blue - which enhances the contrast enough in some cases,
and washes it out in others.

I am still perplexed as to why it "suddenly" happened when switching to a new
system.   The HP V241 was usually the "nice" monitor with the rich, vibrant
colors and better contrast in comparison to the laptop monitor(s).  Now it's all
I'm using, but I don't recall ever seeing the issue when using it as a dual
display and moving the browser window over to the external monitor.   It's
puzzling.

[Jim Henderson] Re: Website/forum link colors [1329 days 13 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:11:54 GMT

On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 13:57:48 EDT, Bald Eagle wrote:

> Le_Forgeron <jgr### [at] freefr> wrote:
> 
>> Looking at the page http://www.povray.org/
>>
>>
>> I see dull blue for explored links, full blue for not yet explored
>> links.
>>
>> #5555aa vs #0000ff, from styles-fixed.css (a:visited vs a:link)
>>
>> (Investigation done with Firefox)
>>
>> I agree, the difference is very small. What is the current consensus on
>> html link's colors ?
> 
> Thank you for looking into this Jerome.
> I think that making all of the link text bold, might give a larger area
> of color for the eye to make a comparison with.
> 
> Also, or alternatively, a more desaturated blue, or just a middle gray
> color for the visited link would help to enhance the contrast between
> the two types of links.
> 
> Or maybe just a very dark blue vs a very light blue.
> 
> Anything would work, so long as they are easily differentiated.  I
> honestly don't care if we use black and white or green and red.   ;)

It seems that for accessibility reasons, the colours in use should not be 
closely related, but should be (as Bald Eagle says) "easily 
differentiated".  Two different shades of blue for people with various 
colour-blindness could be problematic.  I don't have such an impairment, 
but the two different shades of blue are still pretty difficult to 
distinguish at a glance.



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Bald Eagle] Re: Website/forum link colors [1329 days 13 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:00:00 GMT

Le_Forgeron <jgr### [at] freefr> wrote:

> Looking at the page http://www.povray.org/
>
>
> I see dull blue for explored links, full blue for not yet explored links.
>
> #5555aa vs #0000ff, from styles-fixed.css (a:visited vs a:link)
>
> (Investigation done with Firefox)
>
> I agree, the difference is very small. What is the current consensus on
> html link's colors ?

Thank you for looking into this Jerome.
I think that making all of the link text bold, might give a larger area of color
for the eye to make a comparison with.

Also, or alternatively, a more desaturated blue, or just a middle gray color for
the visited link would help to enhance the contrast between the two types of
links.

Or maybe just a very dark blue vs a very light blue.

Anything would work, so long as they are easily differentiated.  I honestly
don't care if we use black and white or green and red.   ;)

[Le Forgeron] Re: Website/forum link colors [1329 days 16 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Mon, 15 Aug 2022 15:12:50 GMT

Le 10/08/2022 Ã  23:11, Bald Eagle a Ã©critÂ :
> After dealing with much computer chaos, I am using a desktop and an external
> monitor (HP V241).
> 
> Also using Brave browser.
> 
> I have noticed that the difference in color between the new links and the
> previously visited links is so small as to be nearly nonexistent.  I can barely
> tell the difference, and if the sun is coming in the window, or any other
> complicating factor, I have NO idea what is new and what is not.
> 
> Perhaps this is the CSS thing that was mentioned way back.
> Anyone else experiencing trouble with this?
> 

Looking at the page http://www.povray.org/


I see dull blue for explored links, full blue for not yet explored links.

#5555aa vs #0000ff, from styles-fixed.css (a:visited vs a:link)

(Investigation done with Firefox)

I agree, the difference is very small. What is the current consensus on 
html link's colors ?

[Bald Eagle] Website/forum link colors [1334 days 10 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Wed, 10 Aug 2022 21:15:00 GMT

After dealing with much computer chaos, I am using a desktop and an external
monitor (HP V241).

Also using Brave browser.

I have noticed that the difference in color between the new links and the
previously visited links is so small as to be nearly nonexistent.  I can barely
tell the difference, and if the sun is coming in the window, or any other
complicating factor, I have NO idea what is new and what is not.

Perhaps this is the CSS thing that was mentioned way back.
Anyone else experiencing trouble with this?

[Thomas de Groot] Re: Space Image [1338 days 16 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Sat, 6 Aug 2022 14:44:41 GMT

Op 6-8-2022 om 15:06 schreef Bald Eagle:
> 
> This IS about graphics, but there's no CGI involved.
> 
> I sense that this guy may have learned some of the arcane surface texturing
> methods we discuss on this forum.   "Fake the hell out of it.  It just needs to
> LOOK good."
> 
>
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/scientist-etienne-klein-posts-webb-telescope-image-star-actually-slice-chorizo-apology/
> 

LOL!

Etienne Klein is a know French scientist and radio presenter (I suppose 
this is about him and not homonymous person):

https://www.radiofrance.fr/personnes/etienne-klein

I guess he made a tongue-in-cheek photograph which people took 
seriously. :-)

-- 
Thomas

[Bald Eagle] Space Image [1338 days 18 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Sat, 6 Aug 2022 13:10:00 GMT

This IS about graphics, but there's no CGI involved.

I sense that this guy may have learned some of the arcane surface texturing
methods we discuss on this forum.   "Fake the hell out of it.  It just needs to
LOOK good."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/scientist-etienne-klein-posts-webb-telescope-image-star-actually-slice-chorizo-apology/

[Pekka Aho] Re: An old music project [1360 days 21 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Fri, 15 Jul 2022 09:50:00 GMT

Earlier this week I decided to officially revive this old MIDI synth project of
mine, and thus I'm happy to announce that a brand new song from an upcoming EP
"Kuurankajo" (rime shimmer') is now available as a single! I'm still utilizing
the same 4MB MIDI soundbank from the 90's that I used in the old demo releases,
yet trying to get the most out of it. The rest will follow as I get new material
created and finished. :)

https://talvisynth.bandcamp.com/album/kuurankajo-pt-i-single

Note: Project URL updated.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: Has anyone been around long enough to rememb... [1407 days 16 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Sun, 29 May 2022 14:45:00 GMT

Op 19-5-2022 om 20:28 schreef Shay:
> I still think about him a lot.
> 
> https://shayallenhill.com/letters-to-the-dead/
> 
I certainly do remember him. He was, among other things, the driving 
force to replace the defunct IRTC, by starting the TC-RTC. When he 
unexpectedly died, Stephen and I we took it over for the next ten years 
or about.

-- 
Thomas

[Andrel Linnenbank] Re: Has anyone been around long enough to rememb... [1407 days 17 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Sun, 29 May 2022 13:36:00 GMT

Forget I asked ;)

POV still has a good search facility.
His name was indeed 25ct and we do overlap in time.
At the moment, while browsing a little through his posts, I do not have 
an active memory* of him or his work, sorry.

	Andrel

*) horrible insider joke for the dutchies.

On 29-5-2022 15:26, Andrel Linnenbank wrote:
> I don't know. I have a terrible memory for names.
> There were also possibly more Steve's here.
> What was his username and/or can you point to a post by him?
> 
> 
> BTW I do remember you and your intricate handcrafted objects.
> 
>  Â Â Â Â Andrel
> 
> On 19-5-2022 20:28, Shay wrote:
>> I still think about him a lot.
>>
>> https://shayallenhill.com/letters-to-the-dead/
>>
>

[Andrel Linnenbank] Re: Has anyone been around long enough to rememb... [1407 days 17 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Sun, 29 May 2022 13:26:41 GMT

I don't know. I have a terrible memory for names.
There were also possibly more Steve's here.
What was his username and/or can you point to a post by him?

BTW I do remember you and your intricate handcrafted objects.

	Andrel

On 19-5-2022 20:28, Shay wrote:
> I still think about him a lot.
> 
> https://shayallenhill.com/letters-to-the-dead/
>

[Shay] Re: Sad news - Dave Dunn [1417 days 12 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Thu, 19 May 2022 18:35:00 GMT

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> That is sad news - thanks for passing it along.
>
>
>
> --
> "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
> besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Thank you, this is an older post, but I made a small donation here
(https://gofund.me/15dd403a). I hope his family is recovering.

[Shay] Has anyone been around long enough to remember 2... [1417 days 12 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Thu, 19 May 2022 18:30:00 GMT

I still think about him a lot.

https://shayallenhill.com/letters-to-the-dead/

[Pekka Aho] An old music project [1435 days 8 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Sun, 1 May 2022 22:35:00 GMT

Back in the years '97-'03 I had a project called "Talvi" ('winter' in Eng.)
which presented minimalistic "dungeon synth" music with emphasis on Nordic
folklore/dark fantasy/medieval atmospheres. I released a CD-R demo "Ikirouta"
('permafrost') during the first half of '01. It was limited to 50 hand-numbered
copies and distributed mainly between friends and close circles.

During '01-'03 I worked with the 2nd demo "Lumiusva" ('snow mist'), but
unfortunately I never got it finished/released. All materials from that time
dwelled in backups for years to come, but some time ago I found the old external
harddrive and managed to salvage the old files that I had thought were lost and
gone forever. The Lumiusva material needed some remastering, but otherwise those
songs remain unchanged.

I've uploaded both demo releases to Bandcamp for anyone interested in checking
out my very first musical project from 20+ years back. Cheers!

https://lumiusva.bandcamp.com/

[Cousin Ricky] The ultimate ovus? [1445 days 9 hours and 42 minutes ago]

Thu, 21 Apr 2022 21:39:08 GMT

https://youtu.be/tjyFw1BX4eM

[Pekka Aho] My game music at Bandcamp! [1467 days 8 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Wed, 30 Mar 2022 22:25:00 GMT

Woop! Nowadays my game soundtracks are available also at Bandcamp as free
unlimited stream! Feel free to check them out. More stuff coming up when the
time is right and my mindset is tuned to more suitable frequencies for some new
audial creations. :)

https://alienroosterhead.bandcamp.com/

[Dick Balaska] Re: What the he?? is going on with Russia? [1469 days 9 hours and 27 minutes ago]

Mon, 28 Mar 2022 21:53:59 GMT

On 3/28/2022 06:35, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Very nice, Gentlemen.
> 
> Now make the next step and consider the possibility that the "sides" in this may
> only be two tentacles of the same octopus.
> 

I think Zelensky was wicked smart in understanding this and not asking 
for direct intervention.

dik

[Thomas de Groot] Re: What the he?? is going on with Russia? [1469 days 18 hours and 33 minutes ago]

Mon, 28 Mar 2022 12:48:01 GMT

Op 28-3-2022 om 12:35 schreef Bald Eagle:
> Very nice, Gentlemen.
> 
> Now make the next step and consider the possibility that the "sides" in this may
> only be two tentacles of the same octopus.
> 
> Qui bono?
> 
> No one likes you digging for those answers, and people often don't like the
> answers that they start to come up with.   But it's a start, when you realize
> that The Great and Powerful Oz is an illusion, and you start to pull back the
> curtain.
> 

Obviously. The octopus has many names and many avatars. "Magic Wands" in 
action are called macro-economy, supra- or multinational-economic (and 
military) powers/industries, geopolitics through economic pressure, and 
more. The Marshall Plan was nothing more than a way to block URSS to 
take over Europe after WW2 (and we gladly got thirty years of economic 
growth, including this time, it should be especially mentioned, 
vanquished Germany, while the US secured its own economic and military 
supremacy). We generally forget however, to take care of (and include) 
the /losers/ from major conflicts, like Germany from WW1, like Russia 
from the Cold War, with the ultimate unavoidable consequence of a new 
conflict like WW2 with the former, and Ukraine from the later.

A lot of shortcuts here, I am afraid, and very global generalised views, 
but we should pay better attention to the lessons of history.

[and now I shut up. I have said what I had to say]

-- 
Thomas

[Bald Eagle] Re: What the he?? is going on with Russia? [1469 days 20 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Mon, 28 Mar 2022 10:40:00 GMT

Very nice, Gentlemen.

Now make the next step and consider the possibility that the "sides" in this may
only be two tentacles of the same octopus.

Qui bono?

No one likes you digging for those answers, and people often don't like the
answers that they start to come up with.   But it's a start, when you realize
that The Great and Powerful Oz is an illusion, and you start to pull back the
curtain.

[jr] Re: What the he?? is going on with Russia? [1469 days 23 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Mon, 28 Mar 2022 07:40:00 GMT

hi,

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Op 24/03/2022 om 23:08 schreef Leroy:
> > ...
> > It look like the old MAD(mutual assured destruction) doesn't work with a
> > mad man.
> >
> No. Not mad.

not that it would matter if either side considered itself "sane", engaging in
assured destruction.  :-)

and perhaps, given US "culture" is at the centre so often, and thinking about
The Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy's ('Television, the Drug of the Nation')
lyrics, perhaps it's time someone actually leaned on the "red button", get over
and done with, so to speak.
(excerpt)
  T.V. is the reason why less than ten percent of our
  Nation reads books daily
  Why most people think Central America
  means Kansas
  Socialism means unamerican
  and Apartheid is a new headache remedy

> Reasons are geopolitical going back a very long way, ...
> Ponder on this for instance:
> Excerpt from George F. Kennan, “A Fateful Error,” New York Times, 05 Feb
> 1997
>
> “Why, with all the hopeful possibilities engendered by the end of the
> Cold War, should East-West relations become centered on the question of
> who would be allied with whom and, by implication, against whom in some
> fanciful, totally unforeseeable and most improbable future military
> conflict?”

yes, found this graphic on the BBC early this year.  .. striking.

regards, jr.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: What the he?? is going on with Russia? [1470 days and 39 minutes ago]

Mon, 28 Mar 2022 06:42:06 GMT

Op 24/03/2022 om 23:08 schreef Leroy:
> "Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> When this all started a few weeks ago. When The US said we know what your doing
>> pretending that your protecting Russian people that are trapped in a hostel
>> country.  I thought they agree on something!?
>>   When Russia went ahead and attacked, My first thought was 'does the west have
>> the will to stand against this?' Well Do WE?
> 
> I started this tread because I didn't see any thing about it here.
> I was surprised!
>   I thought more people would have an opinion on the matter. Maybe most people
> were shocked and couldn't get their head around what was gong on.
>   After a couple of weeks, this is how I see things.
> Putin has to be stopped.
>            Not Russia, Russia is a tool the Putin uses to get what He wants.
> Everyone is a afraid of world world III. I'm afraid that it has already started
>     and Putin started it. Not the nuclear yet. Putin statement That he would NOT
> use nuclear weapons unless Russia very survival was threaten. Can do it.
>   If enough economic pressure is put on him. He'll have his excuse.
> It look like the old MAD(mutual assured destruction) doesn't work with a mad
> man.
> 
> 
> 
No. Not mad. Reasons are geopolitical going back a very long way, at 
least to 1991 (demise of the Soviet empire) but certainly to WW2, the 
start of the Cold War, if not earlier (the end of WW1 and the demise of 
the large European empires).

Ponder on this for instance:

Excerpt from George F. Kennan, â€œA Fateful Error,â€
New York Times, 05 Feb 
1997

â€œWhy, with all the hopeful possibilities engendered by the end of the

Cold War, should East-West relations become centered on the question of 
who would be allied with whom and, by implication, against whom in some 
fanciful, totally unforeseeable and most improbable future military 
conflict?â€

â€œ[B]luntly statedâ€¦expanding NATO would be the most
fateful error of 
American policy in the entire post-Cold War era. Such a decision may be 
expected to inflame the nationalistic, anti-Western and militaristic 
tendencies in Russian opinion; to have an adverse effect on the 
development of Russian democracy; to restore the atmosphere of the cold 
war to East-West relations, and to impel Russian foreign policy in 
directions decidedly not to our liking â€¦ â€

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/05/opinion/a-fateful-error.html

we too, the West, are co-responsible for what is happening now in Ukraine.

-- 
Thomas

[Leroy] Re: What the he?? is going on with Russia? [1473 days 9 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Thu, 24 Mar 2022 22:10:00 GMT

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> When this all started a few weeks ago. When The US said we know what your doing
> pretending that your protecting Russian people that are trapped in a hostel
> country.  I thought they agree on something!?
>  When Russia went ahead and attacked, My first thought was 'does the west have
> the will to stand against this?' Well Do WE?

I started this tread because I didn't see any thing about it here.
I was surprised!
 I thought more people would have an opinion on the matter. Maybe most people
were shocked and couldn't get their head around what was gong on.
 After a couple of weeks, this is how I see things.
Putin has to be stopped.
          Not Russia, Russia is a tool the Putin uses to get what He wants.
Everyone is a afraid of world world III. I'm afraid that it has already started
   and Putin started it. Not the nuclear yet. Putin statement That he would NOT
use nuclear weapons unless Russia very survival was threaten. Can do it.
 If enough economic pressure is put on him. He'll have his excuse.
It look like the old MAD(mutual assured destruction) doesn't work with a mad
man.

[Dick Balaska] Re: What the he?? is going on with Russia? [1480 days 12 hours and 32 minutes ago]

Thu, 17 Mar 2022 18:49:29 GMT

On 3/17/2022 08:44, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> On 3022-03-12 14:55 (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 15:42:59 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>>
>>> Another bind is our dependence on fossil fuels.  If we shut down
>>> Russia's pipelines, our fuel prices go up.  Even progressives are in a
>>> bind on this one, as this would hurt the poor the hardest.
>>
>> I don't think this is actually the case.  Shutting down Russia's
>> pipelines would be effective, if the petrochemical industry would not use
>> that as an excuse to raise prices.
>>
>> They've posted record profits in the last year.  It's not the cost (or
>> availability) of oil that's causing gas prices to go up.  It's corporate
>> greed.
> 
> Yeah, you're right.

XOM made so much freakin money last quarter they authorized a $10B stock 
buyback. You only do this when you have so much money you can't bury it 
somewhere else.
Also, people forget the futures market. The gas you're buying now was 
priced and paid for a year ago.
The MAGAs also like to complain that Biden's "Green initiative" has 
slaughtered domestic oil production. This is not true. Production is up 
18% from May 2021 to Dec 2021.
There is a big dropoff from Jan-Jun 2020, but The Orange Grifter was 
still president then.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=WCRFPUS2&f=W

dik

[Cousin Ricky] Re: What the he?? is going on with Russia? [1480 days 18 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Thu, 17 Mar 2022 12:44:16 GMT

On 3022-03-12 14:55 (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 15:42:59 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> 
>> Another bind is our dependence on fossil fuels.  If we shut down
>> Russia's pipelines, our fuel prices go up.  Even progressives are in a
>> bind on this one, as this would hurt the poor the hardest.
> 
> I don't think this is actually the case.  Shutting down Russia's 
> pipelines would be effective, if the petrochemical industry would not use 
> that as an excuse to raise prices.
> 
> They've posted record profits in the last year.  It's not the cost (or 
> availability) of oil that's causing gas prices to go up.  It's corporate 
> greed.

Yeah, you're right.

[Jim Henderson] Re: What the he?? is going on with Russia? [1485 days 12 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Sat, 12 Mar 2022 18:55:33 GMT

On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 15:42:59 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> Another bind is our dependence on fossil fuels.  If we shut down
> Russia's pipelines, our fuel prices go up.  Even progressives are in a
> bind on this one, as this would hurt the poor the hardest.

I don't think this is actually the case.  Shutting down Russia's 
pipelines would be effective, if the petrochemical industry would not use 
that as an excuse to raise prices.

They've posted record profits in the last year.  It's not the cost (or 
availability) of oil that's causing gas prices to go up.  It's corporate 
greed.

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Mr] Re: What the he?? is going on with Russia? [1489 days 21 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Tue, 8 Mar 2022 09:25:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> On 3/6/22 13:54, Leroy wrote:
> >
> > When this all started a few weeks ago. When The US said we know what your doing
> > pretending that your protecting Russian people that are trapped in a hostel
> > country.  I thought they agree on something!?
> >  When Russia went ahead and attacked, My first thought was 'does the west have
> > the will to stand against this?' Well Do WE?
>
> When the USSR dissolved in 1991, the USA declared victory over communism
> and celebrated the end of the Cold War.  My thought--and I seemed to be
> alone in this--was, wait a minute, not so fast!
>
> The dissolution of the USSR, along with the fall of most other communist
> governments around the same time, showed one thing: that the Leninist
> model of socialist governance is unsustainable.  What it did *not* do was:
>   - Eliminate nuclear weapons.  This was foremost on my mind.  They were
>     now less likely to be used, but as long as they remained, I could
>     not agree that the Cold War was truly over.
>   - Insure that Leninist governments would be replaced by democratic
>     governments.
> Since then we have seen, in Russia and around the world, including the
> USA, that the presence of a democratic government today is no guarantee
> that said government will be democratic tomorrow.  While I did not
> foresee Russia's backslide into dictatorship, I did see that we should
> not have dropped our guard.
>
> During the MAD of the Cold War, the USSR pledged no first use of nuclear
> weapons, a pledge that the USA never made.  Now, with Putin, we cannot
> be sure.
>
> I haven't seen world solidarity on this level since 9/11.  But President
> Biden and the rest of the world are in a tight spot: how do we contain
> Russia without starting World War III?  This is why, as dire as the
> pleas are from Ukraine, NATO will not establish a no-fly zone.  It is
> plain to see that this war is bad for Russia.  But Putin is a madman and
> a kleptocrat who doesn't care for Russian lives, let alone Ukrainian,
> Syrian, or American lives, and we cannot appeal to his rationality or
> sense of decency.
>
> Another bind is our dependence on fossil fuels.  If we shut down
> Russia's pipelines, our fuel prices go up.  Even progressives are in a
> bind on this one, as this would hurt the poor the hardest.
>
> But why are we still dependent on fossil fuels, even after decades of
> warnings about climate change?  This speaks to Bald Eagle's point.
> Though his terse wording sounds like a conspiracy theory, the fact is
> that if American politicians cross American oligarchs (yes, let's start
> calling them that), they will lose their campaign funding--and quite
> often, media access, because the major media in the USA are owned by
> oligarchs--not to mention, that they milk the revenues from campaign
> ads.  Pay attention to how much the mainstream media focus on
> candidates' fund raising, and how little they pay attention to issues
> that affect ordinary Americans.
>
> Remember this the next time you see some TV ad from an oil company
> talking about energy independence.  Oil pumped in the USA goes straight
> to the international market.  They say the Keystone XL pipeline would
> help American energy independence.  But follow the oil: drilled in
> Canada, piped through the USA (with a temporary stop in Oklahoma), and
> offloaded onto tankers in Texas.  When a bill was introduced into
> Congress to keep that oil in the USA, it was voted down--by Republicans.
>  Remember, when an oil company says "energy independence," they are lying.
>
> After the fall of the Berlin Wall, I remember Europe got super nervous
> about the prospect of German reunification.  But Germany has done an
> exemplary job of facing its horrid past, certainly better than the USA,
> which cannot face its own present, let alone its past.  It was not
> Germany we had to worry about; it was post-communist Russia.


Sorry I didn't read the whole topic, just this last one, and meant to also
ponder the debate with a point, just in case no one already made it:
The worry is not russia alone, it's russia AND china, as the aledged goal of P.
is to pipeline fuel and sell it to china... Now if the current popular movement
was led by all the mandarin speaking individuals of the planet alone,
threatening to boycot that bloodstained energy, THIS could be the game changer.
(sorry for any grammar or typo from non native speaker, and sorry for any
misinformation from some naive human)

[Cousin Ricky] Re: What the he?? is going on with Russia? [1490 days 11 hours and 38 minutes ago]

Mon, 7 Mar 2022 19:43:00 GMT

On 3/6/22 13:54, Leroy wrote:
> 
> When this all started a few weeks ago. When The US said we know what your doing
> pretending that your protecting Russian people that are trapped in a hostel
> country.  I thought they agree on something!?
>  When Russia went ahead and attacked, My first thought was 'does the west have
> the will to stand against this?' Well Do WE?

When the USSR dissolved in 1991, the USA declared victory over communism
and celebrated the end of the Cold War.  My thought--and I seemed to be
alone in this--was, wait a minute, not so fast!

The dissolution of the USSR, along with the fall of most other communist
governments around the same time, showed one thing: that the Leninist
model of socialist governance is unsustainable.  What it did *not* do was:
  - Eliminate nuclear weapons.  This was foremost on my mind.  They were
    now less likely to be used, but as long as they remained, I could
    not agree that the Cold War was truly over.
  - Insure that Leninist governments would be replaced by democratic
    governments.
Since then we have seen, in Russia and around the world, including the
USA, that the presence of a democratic government today is no guarantee
that said government will be democratic tomorrow.  While I did not
foresee Russia's backslide into dictatorship, I did see that we should
not have dropped our guard.

During the MAD of the Cold War, the USSR pledged no first use of nuclear
weapons, a pledge that the USA never made.  Now, with Putin, we cannot
be sure.

I haven't seen world solidarity on this level since 9/11.  But President
Biden and the rest of the world are in a tight spot: how do we contain
Russia without starting World War III?  This is why, as dire as the
pleas are from Ukraine, NATO will not establish a no-fly zone.  It is
plain to see that this war is bad for Russia.  But Putin is a madman and
a kleptocrat who doesn't care for Russian lives, let alone Ukrainian,
Syrian, or American lives, and we cannot appeal to his rationality or
sense of decency.

Another bind is our dependence on fossil fuels.  If we shut down
Russia's pipelines, our fuel prices go up.  Even progressives are in a
bind on this one, as this would hurt the poor the hardest.

But why are we still dependent on fossil fuels, even after decades of
warnings about climate change?  This speaks to Bald Eagle's point.
Though his terse wording sounds like a conspiracy theory, the fact is
that if American politicians cross American oligarchs (yes, let's start
calling them that), they will lose their campaign funding--and quite
often, media access, because the major media in the USA are owned by
oligarchs--not to mention, that they milk the revenues from campaign
ads.  Pay attention to how much the mainstream media focus on
candidates' fund raising, and how little they pay attention to issues
that affect ordinary Americans.

Remember this the next time you see some TV ad from an oil company
talking about energy independence.  Oil pumped in the USA goes straight
to the international market.  They say the Keystone XL pipeline would
help American energy independence.  But follow the oil: drilled in
Canada, piped through the USA (with a temporary stop in Oklahoma), and
offloaded onto tankers in Texas.  When a bill was introduced into
Congress to keep that oil in the USA, it was voted down--by Republicans.
 Remember, when an oil company says "energy independence," they are lying.

After the fall of the Berlin Wall, I remember Europe got super nervous
about the prospect of German reunification.  But Germany has done an
exemplary job of facing its horrid past, certainly better than the USA,
which cannot face its own present, let alone its past.  It was not
Germany we had to worry about; it was post-communist Russia.

[Bald Eagle] Re: What the he?? is going on with Russia? [1491 days 8 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Sun, 6 Mar 2022 23:15:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> (speaking for myself) the presidents of Russia and the US of A, along with many
> career politicians, have one thing in common --

They're controlled from behind the scenes by ultra-wealthy people who are
unelected and unaccountable, and profit by funding both sides of every conflict.

If Russia is a hostile country - then why did Obama and Hillary sell them
uranium?

There's a lot more going on than is presented in the press to the previously
uninterested people sitting on their couches, perpetually in fear of ...
everything.   Whatever they're told to be afraid of.

Be careful before picking A side, or indeed any side.

"He (the devil) always sends errors into the world in pairs - pairs of opposites
- he relies on you extra dislike of one to draw you gradually into the opposite
one." - C. S. Lewis

https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uploads/129/Media/Unintended_Consequences.pdf

Read the Author's Note.

https://goldenageofgaia.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/EX-RUSSIAN-INTEL-OFFICER_-Depopulation-agenda-is-real.mp4?_=1

In what seems to be a paradox, you should _stop_ looking for answers, and
_start_ asking the right questions.

[jr] Re: What the he?? is going on with Russia? [1491 days 9 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Sun, 6 Mar 2022 21:45:00 GMT

hi,

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> When this all started a few weeks ago. When The US said we know what your doing
> pretending that your protecting Russian people that are trapped in a hostel
> country.  I thought they agree on something!?
>  When Russia went ahead and attacked, My first thought was 'does the west have
> the will to stand against this?' Well Do WE?

who's this "we" you're talking about?!

(speaking for myself) the presidents of Russia and the US of A, along with many
career politicians, have one thing in common -- they're the kind of person I
would not buy a second hand auto from ;-).

regards, jr.

[Leroy] What the he?? is going on with Russia? [1491 days 13 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Sun, 6 Mar 2022 18:00:00 GMT

When this all started a few weeks ago. When The US said we know what your doing
pretending that your protecting Russian people that are trapped in a hostel
country.  I thought they agree on something!?
 When Russia went ahead and attacked, My first thought was 'does the west have
the will to stand against this?' Well Do WE?

[William F Pokorny] Re: A quick povr branch micro normal image. [1495 days 21 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:10:05 GMT

On 3/1/22 21:04, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> On 2022-03-01 14:49 (-4), jr wrote:
>> thinking some more..
>>
>> William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>>> Neat.
>>
>> and super-easy, _and_ since Tcl also runs on Redmond's finest, ...
> 
> Redmond's finest is, and has always been, its flight simulator.

:-)

[Cousin Ricky] Re: A quick povr branch micro normal image. [1496 days 5 hours and 17 minutes ago]

Wed, 2 Mar 2022 02:04:10 GMT

On 2022-03-01 14:49 (-4), jr wrote:
> thinking some more..
> 
> William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>> Neat.
> 
> and super-easy, _and_ since Tcl also runs on Redmond's finest, ...

Redmond's finest is, and has always been, its flight simulator.

[Jim Henderson] Re: I cannot update my GitHub repo [1507 days 14 hours and 38 minutes ago]

Fri, 18 Feb 2022 16:43:11 GMT

On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 21:57:05 -0500, Dick Balaska wrote:

> It wasn't the repo that you stuffed, it was just that workspace.

This is a really important point.  Even if you push bad changes to the 
repo, it's actually pretty hard to "break" the repo beyond repair, 
because you can almost always check out a known good commit (the only 
time you can't is when you've done something like a hard reset locally 
and then pushed IIRC, but even then it may be recoverable).

That's one of the really nice things about using source code management 
systems.



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Dick Balaska] Re: I cannot update my GitHub repo [1508 days 4 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Fri, 18 Feb 2022 02:57:06 GMT

On 2/17/2022 9:49 PM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> On 2022-02-17 19:17 (-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
>>
>> It occurred to me that the reason for the snag /may/ be that I tagged
>> the repo in GitHub.  I just discovered that tags are not a GitHub
>> feature, but are part of Git, so tagging it in GitHub probably threw it
>> out of sync with my local repo.
> 
> No, that wasn't the reason.  My other repos are pushing peacefully.

I think it was something like "git checkout <tag>" or "git branch <tag>"
I stuffed up a workspace recently and I can't recall what I did to 
trigger it. But once you detach from head, you're screwed.
(Maybe it was "git stash ; git pull ; git stash pop" [ Warning, not 
merged ])
It wasn't the repo that you stuffed, it was just that workspace.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: I cannot update my GitHub repo [1508 days 4 hours and 32 minutes ago]

Fri, 18 Feb 2022 02:49:31 GMT

On 2022-02-17 19:17 (-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
> 
> It occurred to me that the reason for the snag /may/ be that I tagged
> the repo in GitHub.  I just discovered that tags are not a GitHub
> feature, but are part of Git, so tagging it in GitHub probably threw it
> out of sync with my local repo.

No, that wasn't the reason.  My other repos are pushing peacefully.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: I cannot update my GitHub repo [1508 days 8 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Thu, 17 Feb 2022 23:17:22 GMT

On 2022-02-17 14:46 (-4), Dick Balaska wrote:
> On 2/16/2022 9:24 PM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> 
>> Do you mean clone the GitHub repo?
> 
> yes. Something like
> git clone https://github.com/CousinRicky/AndroidRobot.git

That worked.  As drastic as that is, at least I have a last resort
fallback when I get stuck.

> I was going to give you the exact line but I couldn't find which
> AndroidRobot was yours among the plethora of search results.

For the record, it's https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot

It occurred to me that the reason for the snag /may/ be that I tagged
the repo in GitHub.  I just discovered that tags are not a GitHub
feature, but are part of Git, so tagging it in GitHub probably threw it
out of sync with my local repo.

If that's the case, then I'll need to clone *all* of my repos.  :(

[Dick Balaska] Re: I cannot update my GitHub repo [1508 days 12 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Thu, 17 Feb 2022 18:46:42 GMT

On 2/16/2022 9:24 PM, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> Do you mean clone the GitHub repo?

yes. Something like
git clone https://github.com/CousinRicky/AndroidRobot.git

(making sure that the AndroidRobot subdirectory does not exist from 
where your current directory is.)

I was going to give you the exact line but I couldn't find which 
AndroidRobot was yours among the plethora of search results.

[Jim Henderson] Re: I cannot update my GitHub repo [1508 days 15 hours and 22 minutes ago]

Thu, 17 Feb 2022 15:59:03 GMT

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 15:37:53 -0500, Dick Balaska wrote:

> On 2/15/2022 5:50 PM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> ricky@localhost:~/Documents/POV-Ray/oc_devl/AndroidRobot> git pull You
> are not currently on a branch.
> 
> ricky@localhost:~/Documents/POV-Ray/oc_devl/AndroidRobot> git status
> HEAD detached from 638e732
> 
> --
> These two are not good.
> 
> I have run into this before and honestly what I do, and the easiest way
> out is to git clone a new workspace. Then copy your old/broken files
> (not the .git directory!) over to the new workspace.

Yeah, I had an issue similar to this a few days ago, and ended up doing 
the same thing.  Even stashing the changes I had made didn't work, along 
with a hard reset to a known good commit.



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Cousin Ricky] Re: I cannot update my GitHub repo [1509 days 4 hours and 57 minutes ago]

Thu, 17 Feb 2022 02:24:02 GMT

On 2022-02-16 16:37 (-4), Dick Balaska wrote:
> On 2/15/2022 5:50 PM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> ricky@localhost:~/Documents/POV-Ray/oc_devl/AndroidRobot> git pull
> You are not currently on a branch.
> 
> ricky@localhost:~/Documents/POV-Ray/oc_devl/AndroidRobot> git status
> HEAD detached from 638e732
> 
> -- 
> These two are not good.
> 
> I have run into this before and honestly what I do, and the easiest way
> out is to git clone a new workspace. Then copy your old/broken files
> (not the .git directory!) over to the new workspace.

Do you mean clone the GitHub repo?

[Dick Balaska] Re: I cannot update my GitHub repo [1509 days 10 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Wed, 16 Feb 2022 20:41:01 GMT

On 2/16/2022 3:37 PM, Dick Balaska wrote:
> On 2/15/2022 5:50 PM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> ricky@localhost:~/Documents/POV-Ray/oc_devl/AndroidRobot> git pull
> You are not currently on a branch.
> 
> ricky@localhost:~/Documents/POV-Ray/oc_devl/AndroidRobot> git status
> HEAD detached from 638e732
> 
> -- 
> These two are not good.
> 
> I have run into this before and honestly what I do, and the easiest way 
> out is to git clone a new workspace. Then copy your old/broken files 
> (not the .git directory!) over to the new workspace.

Broken files might be a bad term.  "Changed files that you want to keep 
from the broken workspace".  That's better.

> 
> dik

[Dick Balaska] Re: I cannot update my GitHub repo [1509 days 10 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Wed, 16 Feb 2022 20:37:53 GMT

On 2/15/2022 5:50 PM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
ricky@localhost:~/Documents/POV-Ray/oc_devl/AndroidRobot> git pull
You are not currently on a branch.

ricky@localhost:~/Documents/POV-Ray/oc_devl/AndroidRobot> git status
HEAD detached from 638e732

--
These two are not good.

I have run into this before and honestly what I do, and the easiest way 
out is to git clone a new workspace. Then copy your old/broken files 
(not the .git directory!) over to the new workspace.

dik

[Thorsten] Re: java rant [1509 days 21 hours and 53 minutes ago]

Wed, 16 Feb 2022 09:28:18 GMT

On 14.02.2022 22:13, Dick Balaska wrote:
 > It seems to me that Oracle is doing their best to kill Java.  One uses
 > Java 16 for "security" reasons and one uses Java 8 if one actually wants
 > the shit to work. (And Java 11 if you don't know which way to go, so
 > then you have neither).
Oh never get me started on Java. If you want a real screwed up part, try 
the accessibility layer, known as Java Access Bridge. On Windows up to 
today it even has live-lock bugs on such simple functions as button 
presses (reason: the call is synchronous and if the menu item or button 
press displays a modal file dialog, you are locked out of accessing that 
dialog because all communication tunnels through a single thread).

And documentation? Forget it. So for the record, Java isn't for the 
disabled, and all existing screen readers use terrible hacks to somehow 
work around all this. Honestly, how can this be in 2022? The liability 
alone, especially in the US...

[Cousin Ricky] Re: I cannot update my GitHub repo [1510 days 8 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:55:00 GMT

Dick Balaska <dic### [at] buckosoftcom> wrote:
> On 2/15/2022 4:43 PM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>
> > ricky@localhost:~/Documents/POV-Ray/oc_devl/AndroidRobot> git pull origin main
> >  From github.com:CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot
> >   * branch            main       -> FETCH_HEAD
> > Already up to date.
> > ricky@localhost:~/Documents/POV-Ray/oc_devl/AndroidRobot> git push origin main
> > To github.com:CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot.git
> >   ! [rejected]        main -> main (non-fast-forward)
> > error: failed to push some refs to 'github.com:CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot.git'
>
> Try just "git pull" and "git push".
> Also what does "git status" have to say?
>
> dik

----------[BEGIN TERMINAL SESSION]----------
ricky@localhost:~/Documents/POV-Ray/oc_devl/AndroidRobot> git pull
You are not currently on a branch.
Please specify which branch you want to merge with.
See git-pull(1) for details.

    git pull <remote> <branch>

ricky@localhost:~/Documents/POV-Ray/oc_devl/AndroidRobot> git status
HEAD detached from 638e732
Changes not staged for commit:
  (use "git add <file>..." to update what will be committed)
  (use "git restore <file>..." to discard changes in working directory)
        modified:   README.md

Untracked files:
  (use "git add <file>..." to include in what will be committed)
        .gitignore
        README.md~
        androidrobot-36.png
        androidrobot.pre-4.0.css
        androidrobot_head-36.png
        androidrobot_head-norad.jpg
        androidrobot_posed-36.png
        androidrobot_posed-norad.jpg
        droid-comments.txt
        droid.gif
        session.txt

no changes added to commit (use "git add" and/or "git commit -a")
ricky@localhost:~/Documents/POV-Ray/oc_devl/AndroidRobot> ls -l README.md
-rw-r--r-- 1 ricky users 538 Feb  6 16:32 README.md
-----------[END TERMINAL SESSION]-----------

Since the git pull didn't work, I didn't bother with the push.

I do not understand what's going on with README.md.  I updated this file back in
late October, and this is what I tried to push.  But now, the git status says
that the file's commit somehow became undone, and the datestamp is today!

Weirder still is that the backup file README.md~ still exists; it should have
been deleted a long time ago by my regular cleanups.  It also has today's
datestamp.

It gets weirder.  When I look at README.md in Git-Cola, it shows the version
from before even the backup file!

[Dick Balaska] Re: I cannot update my GitHub repo [1510 days 8 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:22:14 GMT

On 2/15/2022 4:43 PM, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> ricky@localhost:~/Documents/POV-Ray/oc_devl/AndroidRobot> git pull origin main
>  From github.com:CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot
>   * branch            main       -> FETCH_HEAD
> Already up to date.
> ricky@localhost:~/Documents/POV-Ray/oc_devl/AndroidRobot> git push origin main
> To github.com:CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot.git
>   ! [rejected]        main -> main (non-fast-forward)
> error: failed to push some refs to 'github.com:CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot.git'

Try just "git pull" and "git push".
Also what does "git status" have to say?

dik

[Cousin Ricky] I cannot update my GitHub repo [1510 days 9 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Tue, 15 Feb 2022 21:45:00 GMT

Getting back to what I was trying to do before my GPG key expired, I cannot push
an update.  This is what I get:

----------[BEGIN TERMINAL SESSION]----------
ricky@localhost:~/Documents/POV-Ray/oc_devl/AndroidRobot> git push origin main
To github.com:CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot.git
 ! [rejected]        main -> main (non-fast-forward)
error: failed to push some refs to 'github.com:CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot.git'
hint: Updates were rejected because a pushed branch tip is behind its remote
hint: counterpart. Check out this branch and integrate the remote changes
hint: (e.g. 'git pull ...') before pushing again.
hint: See the 'Note about fast-forwards' in 'git push --help' for details.
ricky@localhost:~/Documents/POV-Ray/oc_devl/AndroidRobot> git pull origin main
From github.com:CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot
 * branch            main       -> FETCH_HEAD
Already up to date.
ricky@localhost:~/Documents/POV-Ray/oc_devl/AndroidRobot> git push origin main
To github.com:CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot.git
 ! [rejected]        main -> main (non-fast-forward)
error: failed to push some refs to 'github.com:CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot.git'
hint: Updates were rejected because a pushed branch tip is behind its remote
hint: counterpart. Check out this branch and integrate the remote changes
hint: (e.g. 'git pull ...') before pushing again.
hint: See the 'Note about fast-forwards' in 'git push --help' for details.
-----------[END TERMINAL SESSION]-----------

If a pull is saying it's up to date, why does a push say it's not?

I looked at the note about fast-forwards.  I saw words, I saw letters, but I
could not make it make any meaningful sense to me.

I might as well have been reading Sanskrit.

Help!

[jr] Re: java rant [1510 days 15 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Tue, 15 Feb 2022 16:05:00 GMT

hi,

Dick Balaska <dic### [at] buckosoftcom> wrote:
> It seems to me that Oracle is doing their best to kill Java.  One uses
> Java 16 for "security" reasons and one uses Java 8 if one actually wants
> the shit to work. (And Java 11 if you don't know which way to go, so
> then you have neither).
>
> I tried to light up my RenderFarm after, oh, 2 years off (already!).
> https://www.buckosoft.com/bsac/meta/
> I took me awhile to get it this far (just starting up without crashing)
> because my basic java beans followed best practices from 5-10 years ago
> and now that is verboten. And the best part was google didn't have
> solutions to fix the brokenness, but it did have advice on how to get
> Java to ignore the evil non-errors.
>
> And so I'm stuck at my JDBC database connection doesn't work because it
> needs SSL.  Ugh.  certs suck. I don't wanna add them to this flow.
> Besides, since this is all one box, the private key and public key are
> visible to both sides of the transaction, as well as anyone who breaks
> into my computer. Encrypting the database on a localhost->localhost
> connection helps nothing!
>
> argh.

maybe take it as "a sign" to start migrating?!  ;-)

<https://www.developer.com/java/tcl-blend-makes-for-better-java/>
<https://www.tcl.tk/man/java1.1/Studio/studio.html>

(disclaimer: I don't use Java, so no 1st hand experience of the package(s))


regards, jr.

[Dick Balaska] java rant [1511 days 10 hours and 8 minutes ago]

Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:13:11 GMT

It seems to me that Oracle is doing their best to kill Java.  One uses 
Java 16 for "security" reasons and one uses Java 8 if one actually wants 
the shit to work. (And Java 11 if you don't know which way to go, so 
then you have neither).

I tried to light up my RenderFarm after, oh, 2 years off (already!).
https://www.buckosoft.com/bsac/meta/
I took me awhile to get it this far (just starting up without crashing) 
because my basic java beans followed best practices from 5-10 years ago 
and now that is verboten. And the best part was google didn't have 
solutions to fix the brokenness, but it did have advice on how to get 
Java to ignore the evil non-errors.

And so I'm stuck at my JDBC database connection doesn't work because it 
needs SSL.  Ugh.  certs suck. I don't wanna add them to this flow. 
Besides, since this is all one box, the private key and public key are 
visible to both sides of the transaction, as well as anyone who breaks 
into my computer. Encrypting the database on a localhost->localhost 
connection helps nothing!

argh.

dik

[Jim Henderson] Re: two years of SARS-Cov-2 [1517 days 14 hours and 28 minutes ago]

Tue, 8 Feb 2022 16:53:51 GMT

On Sun, 06 Feb 2022 11:27:14 -0500, jr wrote:

> @Jim Henderson
>> It ain't just about the deaths.  I know people who "recovered" but are
>> dealing with long-term serious effects from it.  "long corona" is no
>> joke.
> 
> sure.  curious though how people will tell that they suffer from "long
> Covid" (as it's called this side of the pond), but not that last night
> they were drunk and hit their spouse.

Pretty easy for some - not everybody drinks.

I have a coworker who has long corona.  The persistent headache is one of 
the worst side effects for them - 3 weeks of non-stop pain that nothing 
short of a high-dose prescription painkiller will touch.

And those who get drunk and hit their spouse belong in jail.  Conflating 
the two (an illness and domestic abuse)?  Just makes me go "WTF?".

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Francois Labreque] Re: two years of SARS-Cov-2 [1518 days 6 hours and 8 minutes ago]

Tue, 8 Feb 2022 01:13:18 GMT

Le 2022-02-07 à 13:24, Kenneth a écrit :
> Aside from the protective effect of the vaccines, there is probably sheer luck
> involved, plus genetics; my Dad lived to be 96, and rarely got sick from
> anything, which is amazing. Our piano player has some immune-system problems,
> which certainly does not help him ward off diseases. As for me, I am not around
> very many people at all (except when our band plays)-- certainly far less people
> that the other band members.
>

They are starting to wonder why some people who are otherwise swimming 
in the virus do not catch the disease.  Either they lack one of the 
necessary enzymes/proteins/midichlorians required for the virus to 
replicate itself, or they have a super immune system that is no match 
for the virus, so genetics do indeed play a part.

-- 
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/*    flabreque    */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/*        @        */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/*   gmail.com     */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[Kenneth] Re: two years of SARS-Cov-2 [1518 days 12 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Mon, 7 Feb 2022 18:30:00 GMT

I play the guitar in a 4-piece rock-and-roll band (at my advanced age!), and we
all have different thoughts about the efficacy of the vaccines, the seriousness
of the Covid pandemic, etc. I am the most 'careful' guy in the band, without
doubt.

Here's a breakdown of our vaccination status:

Me: two vaccine doses plus booster

piano player: two vaccine doses but no booster yet (AFAIK)

bass guitarist (the youngest of us): no vaccine

drummer: no vaccine; instead of that, he has been taking an 'alt' therapy since
the middle of 2021 of ivermectin, zinc, vitamin C, and some other herb(?) that I
don't know the name of.
----
And here are the results over the last year-plus:

Me: no Covid that I know of, so far

piano player: has had Covid twice; bad reactions both times; the 2nd was after
he was vaccinated

bass guitarist: has had Covid once; his wife never caught it. A relatively mild
reaction for both.

drummer: has had Covid twice; the 2nd time was worse than the 1st. His wife also
caught it the 1st time, but then got vaccinated plus boosted, and did not catch
it the 2nd time. Our drummer still insists that his ivermectin regimen is
protecting him. I will not comment ;-)

Aside from the protective effect of the vaccines, there is probably sheer luck
involved, plus genetics; my Dad lived to be 96, and rarely got sick from
anything, which is amazing. Our piano player has some immune-system problems,
which certainly does not help him ward off diseases. As for me, I am not around
very many people at all (except when our band plays)-- certainly far less people
that the other band members.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: two years of SARS-Cov-2 [1519 days and 5 minutes ago]

Mon, 7 Feb 2022 07:16:37 GMT

Op 06/02/2022 om 15:40 schreef HKarsten:
>> And isn't Corona a form of alcohol?
> 
> Just viral marketing..
> 

It is/was a cigar. ;-)

-- 
Thomas

[jr] Re: two years of SARS-Cov-2 [1519 days 14 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Sun, 6 Feb 2022 16:30:00 GMT

hi,

"HKarsten" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > And isn't Corona a form of alcohol?
>
> Just viral marketing..

</grin>

@Jim Henderson
> It ain't just about the deaths.  I know people who "recovered" but are
> dealing with long-term serious effects from it.  "long corona" is no joke.

sure.  curious though how people will tell that they suffer from "long Covid"
(as it's called this side of the pond), but not that last night they were drunk
and hit their spouse.

regards, jr.

[HKarsten] Re: two years of SARS-Cov-2 [1519 days 16 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Sun, 6 Feb 2022 14:45:00 GMT

> And isn't Corona a form of alcohol?

Just viral marketing..

[Jim Henderson] Re: two years of SARS-Cov-2 [1520 days 11 hours and 28 minutes ago]

Sat, 5 Feb 2022 19:53:12 GMT

On Wed, 02 Feb 2022 10:22:22 -0500, jr wrote:

> hi,
> 
> it's been about two years now since "the pandemic" has taken hold,
> claiming as of today, according to Wikipedia, a little under 5.7M lives
> in total.  on average (globally) alcohol claims one life every 10
> seconds, approx ~3.1M per year.  in other words, don't drink, get corona
> -- it's safer!  :-)
> 
> 
> jr.

It ain't just about the deaths.  I know people who "recovered" but are 
dealing with long-term serious effects from it.  "long corona" is no joke.

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[jr] Re: two years of SARS-Cov-2 [1522 days 16 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Thu, 3 Feb 2022 14:30:00 GMT

hi,

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> I read in Nature iirc, that there is a huge uncertainty about those
> figures, 5.7M being the "official" one. Learned estimated report up to
> some 20M... so... cheers!  :-)

I guess you're right, may be not under-reported by quite such a margin, but yes.
 and I suspect the the alcohol numbers to be what the alcohol lobby can agree
on.

Cousin Ricky wrote:
> The difference is that alcoholism isn't contagious.  Also, alcoholics
> aren't clogging hospitals beyond capacity.

still, speak to people on A&E, a fair percentage of cases involve alcohol (lucky
alcohol, by definition, is not a drug :-)).  and anyway, food for thought, more
than 75% of all (UK) reported domestic violence cite alcohol as a (significant)
contributing factor.

regards, jr.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: two years of SARS-Cov-2 [1523 days 14 hours and 18 minutes ago]

Wed, 2 Feb 2022 17:03:12 GMT

On 2022-02-02 11:22 (-4), jr wrote:
> 
> it's been about two years now since "the pandemic" has taken hold, claiming as
> of today, according to Wikipedia, a little under 5.7M lives in total.  on
> average (globally) alcohol claims one life every 10 seconds, approx ~3.1M per
> year.  in other words, don't drink, get corona -- it's safer!  :-)

The difference is that alcoholism isn't contagious.  Also, alcoholics
aren't clogging hospitals beyond capacity.

And isn't Corona a form of alcohol?

[Thomas de Groot] Re: two years of SARS-Cov-2 [1523 days 15 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Wed, 2 Feb 2022 15:46:42 GMT

Op 2-2-2022 om 16:22 schreef jr:
> hi,
> 
> it's been about two years now since "the pandemic" has taken hold, claiming as
> of today, according to Wikipedia, a little under 5.7M lives in total.  on
> average (globally) alcohol claims one life every 10 seconds, approx ~3.1M per
> year.  in other words, don't drink, get corona -- it's safer!  :-)
> 

I read in Nature iirc, that there is a huge uncertainty about those 
figures, 5.7M being the "official" one. Learned estimated report up to 
some 20M... so... cheers!  :-)

-- 
Thomas

[jr] two years of SARS-Cov-2 [1523 days 15 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Wed, 2 Feb 2022 15:25:00 GMT

hi,

it's been about two years now since "the pandemic" has taken hold, claiming as
of today, according to Wikipedia, a little under 5.7M lives in total.  on
average (globally) alcohol claims one life every 10 seconds, approx ~3.1M per
year.  in other words, don't drink, get corona -- it's safer!  :-)


jr.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: How do I use a new GPG key? [1524 days 5 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Wed, 2 Feb 2022 02:01:22 GMT

On 2022-01-31 21:02 (-4), Tor Olav Kristensen wrote:
> "Cousin Ricky" <rickysttATyahooDOTcom> wrote:
>> Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
>>>
>>> OK, I created an SSH key and followed GitHub's instructions for adding
>>> it to my ssh-agent, re-created the remote origin reference on my local
>>> repo, and tried to push again.  Git-Cola *still* asked for the damn
>>> expired GPG key.
>>>
>>> I guess I'll have to dig out the instructions on how to push from the
>>> CLI, and see if that works.  [snip]
>>
>> The push worked from the CLI.  Next is to find out why Git-Cola is still stuck
>> in the past.
> 
> Good.
> 
> Do you know what key (GPG or SSH) was being used when it worked from the command
> line ?

It was SSH.

> 
> Btw.: I had to google Git-Cola to find out what it is. I wasn't aware that you
> use it. I haven't used such GUI tools myself, just the git tools on the command
> line and the web interface at github.com.

Fortunately, Git-Cola and the CLI work well together.  I can switch back
and forth at any time, and the Git repos maintain their integrity.

[Tor Olav Kristensen] Re: How do I use a new GPG key? [1525 days 6 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Tue, 1 Feb 2022 01:05:00 GMT

"Cousin Ricky" <rickysttATyahooDOTcom> wrote:
> Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> >
> > OK, I created an SSH key and followed GitHub's instructions for adding
> > it to my ssh-agent, re-created the remote origin reference on my local
> > repo, and tried to push again.  Git-Cola *still* asked for the damn
> > expired GPG key.
> >
> > I guess I'll have to dig out the instructions on how to push from the
> > CLI, and see if that works.  [snip]
>
> The push worked from the CLI.  Next is to find out why Git-Cola is still stuck
> in the past.

Good.

Do you know what key (GPG or SSH) was being used when it worked from the command
line ?

If it was not the SSH key; did you paste the contents of the id_rsa.pub file
into the key field at this page:

https://github.com/settings/ssh/new

Btw.: I had to google Git-Cola to find out what it is. I wasn't aware that you
use it. I haven't used such GUI tools myself, just the git tools on the command
line and the web interface at github.com.

--
Tor Olav
http://subcube.com
https://github.com/t-o-k

[Cousin Ricky] Re: How do I use a new GPG key? [1525 days 10 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Mon, 31 Jan 2022 21:10:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
>
> OK, I created an SSH key and followed GitHub's instructions for adding
> it to my ssh-agent, re-created the remote origin reference on my local
> repo, and tried to push again.  Git-Cola *still* asked for the damn
> expired GPG key.
>
> I guess I'll have to dig out the instructions on how to push from the
> CLI, and see if that works.  [snip]

The push worked from the CLI.  Next is to find out why Git-Cola is still stuck
in the past.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: How do I use a new GPG key? [1525 days 11 hours and 13 minutes ago]

Mon, 31 Jan 2022 20:08:22 GMT

On 2022-01-23 21:01 (-4), Tor Olav Kristensen wrote:
> 
> A private and a public ssh key can be created e.g. like this both in Linux,
> MacOS and a recent Windows 10 (and perhaps in Windows 11):
> 
>     [snip]

OK, I created an SSH key and followed GitHub's instructions for adding
it to my ssh-agent, re-created the remote origin reference on my local
repo, and tried to push again.  Git-Cola *still* asked for the damn
expired GPG key.

I guess I'll have to dig out the instructions on how to push from the
CLI, and see if that works.  But like I said before, I cannot remember
these commands from one moment to the next; but I do remember that if I
forget a step, or if I omit or get one of the myriad command line
switches wrong, none of it will work.

Is my workflow getting easier yet?

[jr] Re: How do I use a new GPG key? [1526 days 10 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Sun, 30 Jan 2022 20:50:00 GMT

hi,

(sorry, just occurred to me)

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> ...
> The date I'm seeing is for the long-expired key from last October.  I
> see no sign of the keys that GitHub had me set up since.

have you checked whether there are other 'pubring.{kbx,gpg}' files anywhere?
thinking KDE might store stuff in places other than just your user's home.  I'd
use 'locate(1)' though 'find(1)' will do.

regards, jr.

[jr] Re: How do I use a new GPG key? [1526 days 13 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Sun, 30 Jan 2022 17:40:00 GMT

hi,

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> On 2022-01-30 12:30 (-4), jr wrote:
> ...
> > root@crow:~# gpg --version
> > gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.21
> >   ...
>
> My version of gpg is 2.2.27.

still, I'd have expected a comparable output.

> Do you normally work as root?

no.  I had to log in because root is the only account with a '~/.gnupg/' (for OS
updates), it's 'ssh' for everything (and everyone) else.

regards, jr.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: How do I use a new GPG key? [1526 days 14 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Sun, 30 Jan 2022 17:10:20 GMT

On 2022-01-30 12:30 (-4), jr wrote:
> 
> Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
>>
>> I see no slash anywhere in the output.
> 
> I have no use for 'gpg' apart from s/ware downloads/installs.  but this is what
> I see, for the distribution's key:
> 
> root@crow:~# gpg --version
> gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.21
>   ...
> 
> [snip]
> 
> not sure why the format of the second field differs.  sorry.

My version of gpg is 2.2.27.

Do you normally work as root?

[jr] Re: How do I use a new GPG key? [1526 days 14 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Sun, 30 Jan 2022 16:35:00 GMT

hi,

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> On 2022-01-24 04:20 (-4), jr wrote:
> >
> > I trust you've solved your problem by now,
>
> Of course not!  Whatever gave you that idea?  I was just taking a break
> from the frustration.

:-)


> > ...
> >  its first field should read 'pub'(lic).  the
> > second field is a slash separated compound, use the number after the slash to:
> >
> >   $ gpg --export theNumber > the_file_to_use_on_github
>
> I see no slash anywhere in the output.

I have no use for 'gpg' apart from s/ware downloads/installs.  but this is what
I see, for the distribution's key:

root@crow:~# gpg --version
gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.21
  ...

root@crow:~# gpg --list-keys
/root/.gnupg/pubring.gpg
------------------------
pub   1024D/40102233 2003-02-26 [expires: 2038-01-19]
uid                  Slackware Linux Project <sec### [at] slackwarecom>
sub   1024g/4E523569 2003-02-26 [expires: 2038-01-19]

not sure why the format of the second field differs.  sorry.


regards, jr.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: How do I use a new GPG key? [1526 days 15 hours and 19 minutes ago]

Sun, 30 Jan 2022 16:02:13 GMT

On 2022-01-24 04:20 (-4), jr wrote:
> 
> I trust you've solved your problem by now,

Of course not!  Whatever gave you that idea?  I was just taking a break
from the frustration.

> if not:
> 
>   $ gpg --list-keys

----------[BEGIN SCREEN OUTPUT]----------
/home/ricky/.gnupg/pubring.kbx
------------------------------
pub   rsa2048 2021-10-06 [SCEA]
      SomeBigNumberIDontThinkIShouldPostHere
uid           [ultimate] Ricky <my### [at] emailaddress>
sub   rsa2048 2021-10-06 [SEA]
-----------[END SCREEN OUTPUT]-----------

> you should see which key you're after by looking at the 3rd (space-separated)
> field, the date of creation.

The date I'm seeing is for the long-expired key from last October.  I
see no sign of the keys that GitHub had me set up since.

>  its first field should read 'pub'(lic).  the
> second field is a slash separated compound, use the number after the slash to:
> 
>   $ gpg --export theNumber > the_file_to_use_on_github

I see no slash anywhere in the output.

> 
> fwiw, TOK's ""SSH keypair setup for GitHub" link looks v good.  had not known
> you can use ssh keys too, recommend you switch from 'gpg' to 'ssh' at some point
> (easier to use + manage).

I guess I'll look into it... I guess.  If I switch over, will it confuse
GitHub?

Thanks for trying to help out.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: How do I use a new GPG key? [1526 days 15 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Sun, 30 Jan 2022 15:47:13 GMT

On 2022-01-23 21:01 (-4), Tor Olav Kristensen wrote:
> 
> What operating system are you using ?

openSUSE Leap 15.5 GNU/Linux

> Are you able to log into to your account via the GitHub web interface ? Here:
> 
> https://github.com/your-account-name

Yes.

> If so, then you can go to this page to administrate the SSH and GPG keys
> associated with your GitHub account:
> 
> https://github.com/settings/keys

Yes.  Strangely, is says there are no keys associated with my account.
So where are all those keys I had been setting up through the link that
GitHub emailed to me every month?

> You can try to add another key. If you are using Linux or Windows 10/11 or
> MacOS, then I suggest that you add a new SSH key to your GitHub account.

I was using GPG because that's what was in the instructions I got from
GitHub after they discontinued password pushing.  Are there advantages
or disadvantages to one system over the other?

Thanks for your attention.

[jr] Re: How do I use a new GPG key? [1532 days 22 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Mon, 24 Jan 2022 08:25:00 GMT

hi,

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> On 2022-01-23 16:00 (-4), jr wrote:
> >
> > I guess you'll also have found the 'gpg' program?  you can list keys + could
> > export the one you need.  how you then use that with GitHub, no idea.
>
> I did not realize such a program existed, but I just checked, and the
> program is on my system.  I did a gpg -k, and other than my email
> address, I have no idea what I'm looking at.

(ah, there you have me.  I cannot look at your screen.  :-))

I trust you've solved your problem by now, if not:

  $ gpg --list-keys

you should see which key you're after by looking at the 3rd (space-separated)
field, the date of creation.  its first field should read 'pub'(lic).  the
second field is a slash separated compound, use the number after the slash to:

  $ gpg --export theNumber > the_file_to_use_on_github

never needed to do this, so check out the export comments re '-armor' option and
sending keys.

<https://www.gnupg.org/gph/en/manual.html>

fwiw, TOK's ""SSH keypair setup for GitHub" link looks v good.  had not known
you can use ssh keys too, recommend you switch from 'gpg' to 'ssh' at some point
(easier to use + manage).

regards, jr.

[Tor Olav Kristensen] Re: How do I use a new GPG key? [1533 days 6 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Mon, 24 Jan 2022 01:05:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> I dutifully created a GPG key last October, and that was how I got my
> Object Collection uploaded to GitHub.  I have been unable to do a single
> damn thing with GitHub ever since, but I never posted my new
> frustrations here before that initial key expired.
>
> Now, the Git push will not accept my new key, which I created under
> instruction from GitHub.  It keeps asking for my old expired key.  I
> can't figure out how to get it to accept the new key.  I'm effectively
> locked out of my GitHub account.
>
> The security seems to be handled by kwallet on my GNU/Linux/KDE system.
> I have never been able to figure out how kwallet works.
>
> I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW ANY OF THIS SHIT WORKS!
>
> Is my life getting easier yet?

What operating system are you using ?

Are you able to log into to your account via the GitHub web interface ? Here:

https://github.com/your-account-name

If so, then you can go to this page to administrate the SSH and GPG keys
associated with your GitHub account:

https://github.com/settings/keys

You can try to add another key. If you are using Linux or Windows 10/11 or
MacOS, then I suggest that you add a new SSH key to your GitHub account.

A private and a public ssh key can be created e.g. like this both in Linux,
MacOS and a recent Windows 10 (and perhaps in Windows 11):

    ssh-keygen -t rsa -b 4096

You need to upload the contents of "id_rsa.pub".

It will be here in Linux:

    ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub

- and perhaps here in Windows 10/11:

    %USERPROFILE%\.ssh\id_rsa.pub

There's some more information here:

"SSH keypair setup for GitHub (or GitHub/GitLab/BitBucket, etc, etc)"
https://gist.github.com/xirixiz/b6b0c6f4917ce17a90e00f9b60566278

If you have a not-so-recent Windows 10 installation, you may have to enable the
optional OpenSSH client.

--
Tor Olav
http://subcube.com
https://github.com/t-o-k

[Cousin Ricky] Re: How do I use a new GPG key? [1533 days 10 hours and 23 minutes ago]

Sun, 23 Jan 2022 20:57:58 GMT

On 2022-01-23 16:00 (-4), jr wrote:
> 
> I guess you'll also have found the 'gpg' program?  you can list keys + could
> export the one you need.  how you then use that with GitHub, no idea.

I did not realize such a program existed, but I just checked, and the
program is on my system.  I did a gpg -k, and other than my email
address, I have no idea what I'm looking at.

[jr] Re: How do I use a new GPG key? [1533 days 11 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Sun, 23 Jan 2022 20:05:00 GMT

hi,

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> On 2022-01-23 13:48 (-4), jr wrote:
> > on my machines GPG keys are stored in '~/.gnupg/', but I do not use KDE.
>
> I found that directory.  What do I do with it?
>
> I see a couple of files that are time-stamped with the dates from my
> first key last October, plus a bunch of other stuff that I don't know
> what to do with.

I guess you'll also have found the 'gpg' program?  you can list keys + could
export the one you need.  how you then use that with GitHub, no idea.


regards, jr.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: How do I use a new GPG key? [1533 days 13 hours and 13 minutes ago]

Sun, 23 Jan 2022 18:08:01 GMT

On 2022-01-23 13:48 (-4), jr wrote:
> 
> on my machines GPG keys are stored in '~/.gnupg/', but I do not use KDE.

I found that directory.  What do I do with it?

I see a couple of files that are time-stamped with the dates from my
first key last October, plus a bunch of other stuff that I don't know
what to do with.

[jr] Re: How do I use a new GPG key? [1533 days 13 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Sun, 23 Jan 2022 17:50:00 GMT

hi,

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> I dutifully created a GPG key last October, ...
> The security seems to be handled by kwallet on my GNU/Linux/KDE system.
> I have never been able to figure out how kwallet works.

on my machines GPG keys are stored in '~/.gnupg/', but I do not use KDE.


regards, jr.

[Cousin Ricky] How do I use a new GPG key? [1533 days 13 hours and 47 minutes ago]

Sun, 23 Jan 2022 17:34:38 GMT

I dutifully created a GPG key last October, and that was how I got my
Object Collection uploaded to GitHub.  I have been unable to do a single
damn thing with GitHub ever since, but I never posted my new
frustrations here before that initial key expired.

Now, the Git push will not accept my new key, which I created under
instruction from GitHub.  It keeps asking for my old expired key.  I
can't figure out how to get it to accept the new key.  I'm effectively
locked out of my GitHub account.

The security seems to be handled by kwallet on my GNU/Linux/KDE system.
I have never been able to figure out how kwallet works.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW ANY OF THIS SHIT WORKS!

Is my life getting easier yet?

[jr] Re: Tracfone troubles [1547 days 21 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Sun, 9 Jan 2022 10:05:00 GMT

hi,

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> First off I needed to post here where I know REAL people will read it.

:-)

> I've been dealing with Robots way to much.
> ...
> Ah.... I feel better now. ...

real life shop assistants aren't any better, some times.  :-(  last week old
phone broke and I went to the O2 shop, SIM card in hand.  pityful stare "oh,
you'll need a _new_ SIM, that won't fit".  but to transfer the SIM + number
"we'll need to see an id, passport or driving license".  sigh.  returned next
day, bought phone and day after the number had transferred -- but nothing else
AND the top-up seems to have gotten lost too.  am resolved to buy another SIM
for calls from a competitor, and use the old number for incoming only from now.
good luck with your missing minutes.

regards, jr.

[Leroy] Tracfone troubles [1548 days 9 hours and 1 minute ago]

Sat, 8 Jan 2022 22:20:00 GMT

First off I needed to post here where I know REAL people will read it.
I've been dealing with Robots way to much.

 The deal is I have my tracfone for over a year and it worked good.  A little
before Christmas the 13 I got my phone part shut off. They said I used all my
minutes. So I bought a 120 minutes 90 day card at Walmart for 30$. Then 16 days
and 5 calls later I got shut off again. My phone has the time of each call I
made or recieved and they add up to 21 minutes and all my calls where local.
 I just spent an half hour with their customer support. It was slow and snippy
so I thought I was dealing with a human. But I keep getting 'We show your out of
minutes' I knew I was dealing with a bot when I typed 'Are you a robot?' and got
back 'No. It isn't.'
 Then I went a little crazy and had some fun. I type 'Yes you are!'. I don't
remember what I got back because I started typing junk that would Make any
 human say 'STOP IT!'
I got frustrated  with a robot before and just keep typing 'WHY?'. I stopped
when I realize a bot could outlast me. I could still be tying today.

Ah.... I feel better now. Still have to deal with the phone though. Leave it for
another day.

Have Fun!

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Adam Savage's One Day Builds: Rhombic Dodeca... [1549 days 10 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Fri, 7 Jan 2022 21:07:05 GMT

On 2021-12-31 17:01 (-4), Bald Eagle wrote:
> 
> Adam Savage's One Day Builds: Rhombic Dodecahedron with Matt Parker
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65r_1TzJXaQ
> 
> 
> It's not POV-Ray, but you can see where this is going....

It's a shame the rhombic dodecahedron doesn't get more attention; I
think it's a beautiful shape.  I first learned about it from a book of
crystallography I read when I was 11 years old.

This is a scene I started in 2003, and still revisit occasionally.  The
shape at the right front is a rhombic dodecahedron.  Image
regular-m3.jpg is the scene as of 2006, though it's not substantially
different from the original.  Image regular-new-m11.jpg is as of last April.

[Andrel Linnenbank] Re: Adam Savage's One Day Builds: Rhombic Dodeca... [1551 days 18 hours and 17 minutes ago]

Wed, 5 Jan 2022 13:04:12 GMT

On 31-12-2021 22:01, Bald Eagle wrote:
> 
> Adam Savage's One Day Builds: Rhombic Dodecahedron with Matt Parker
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65r_1TzJXaQ
> 
> 
> It's not POV-Ray, but you can see where this is going....
> 

It is also my favourite shape, because it fills space. It is the voronoy 
space of a ball stacking lattice. If you have Rhombo dodecahedra shapes 
voxels, the  connectedness of foreground and background are 
well-defined. Just as 6-connectedness in 2D space.

In the days that I regularly used POV I also created some other solids 
that filled space. I might use my 3D printer to print some of those for 
the math teacher in my school.

    Andrel

[Thomas de Groot] Re: Adam Savage's One Day Builds: Rhombic Dodeca... [1553 days and 4 minutes ago]

Tue, 4 Jan 2022 07:17:24 GMT

Op 03/01/2022 om 12:30 schreef Bald Eagle:
> 
> So like most things, it took longer than I wanted it to, but it was easier than
> I first thought.
> 
Somehow, it looks like a non-repetitive structure disguised as a regular 
one...

-- 
Thomas

[Bald Eagle] Re: Adam Savage's One Day Builds: Rhombic Dodeca... [1553 days 19 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Jan 2022 11:35:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> This is more tricky than it seems at first glance. very well done indeed.
>
> --
> Thomas

Oh my, really?

I thought it was going to be one of those tedious "now I need to look up a table
of vertex coordinates...", but when searching the topic, I found someone had
already done this in blender, and then a reddit thread had the helpful comment
that the coordinates were just a cube, with points at the face centers "puffed
out" by 1/2.

Got that done, made my triangles, ran into a laptop/qtpovray render window
issue, outlined the edges with cylinders, got half the triangle normals wrong,
fixed those, and then just made the cylinders emissive.

So like most things, it took longer than I wanted it to, but it was easier than
I first thought.

The animation of the cube/RD space filling on Wikipedia is pretty cool, and I'm
thinking there ought to be a way to space fill a half plane with these and have
them all indexable by <x, y, z> of the centers, and be able to randomly color or
color by pattern values....   almost like the unit cube centers of crackle.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: Adam Savage's One Day Builds: Rhombic Dodeca... [1553 days 23 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Jan 2022 07:35:49 GMT

This is more tricky than it seems at first glance. very well done indeed.

-- 
Thomas

[Tor Olav Kristensen] Re: Adam Savage's One Day Builds: Rhombic Dodeca... [1554 days 13 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Sun, 2 Jan 2022 18:00:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Tor Olav Kristensen" <tor### [at] TOBEREMOVEDgmailcom> wrote:
>
> > That's interesting.
>
> Yes, especially the space-filling aspect of it, along with some simple ways to
> determine the vertice coordinates.
> Lots to play with in the future, for sure!
>
> > Go for it !
> >
> > It will be interesting to see the result.
>
>
> Oh, OKAY.
>
> Here's a quick render from just inside the surface of a face, and rotated 5
> degrees from the "axis" connecting opposite faces.
>
> "Lights" are emissive cylinders connecting 3 edges of each of the 8 rhombi that
> form the "caps" to the remaining 4 rhombi comprising the "belt".
>
> Super important: set Max_trace_level to 255.
>
> Hope you like, and others are inspired to explore some other shapes and
> reflective experiments.

Yes, I like !

I've been staring at it several times now, trying to figure out what is what.

It's a surprise, and fascinating, that the space seems to be completely filled
with the reflections of the emissive cylinders at the edges.

--
Tor Olav
http://subcube.com
https://github.com/t-o-k

[Bald Eagle] Re: Adam Savage's One Day Builds: Rhombic Dodeca... [1555 days 12 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Sat, 1 Jan 2022 19:15:00 GMT

"Tor Olav Kristensen" <tor### [at] TOBEREMOVEDgmailcom> wrote:

> That's interesting.

Yes, especially the space-filling aspect of it, along with some simple ways to
determine the vertice coordinates.
Lots to play with in the future, for sure!

> Go for it !
>
> It will be interesting to see the result.

Oh, OKAY.

Here's a quick render from just inside the surface of a face, and rotated 5
degrees from the "axis" connecting opposite faces.

"Lights" are emissive cylinders connecting 3 edges of each of the 8 rhombi that
form the "caps" to the remaining 4 rhombi comprising the "belt".

Super important: set Max_trace_level to 255.

Hope you like, and others are inspired to explore some other shapes and
reflective experiments.

[Tor Olav Kristensen] Re: Adam Savage's One Day Builds: Rhombic Dodeca... [1556 days 3 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Sat, 1 Jan 2022 04:00:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Adam Savage's One Day Builds: Rhombic Dodecahedron with Matt Parker
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65r_1TzJXaQ
>
>
> It's not POV-Ray, but you can see where this is going....

That's interesting.

Go for it !

It will be interesting to see the result.

--
Tor Olav
http://subcube.com
https://github.com/t-o-k

[Bald Eagle] Adam Savage's One Day Builds: Rhombic Dodecahedr... [1556 days 10 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Fri, 31 Dec 2021 21:05:00 GMT

Adam Savage's One Day Builds: Rhombic Dodecahedron with Matt Parker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65r_1TzJXaQ


It's not POV-Ray, but you can see where this is going....

[Mr] Re: POV-Ray Twitter list ? [1560 days 23 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 Dec 2021 08:15:00 GMT

"BayashiPascal" <bai### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> Yesterday I've found myself surprised to have been added to the POV-Ray twitter
> list, which I had never heard of, by a user nicknamed Pix Thagoras, which I
> believe I don't know. The list has 8 members and doesn't contain much tweets
> related to POV-Ray except for a bot posting images of a nail polish bottle.
> Beside it also contains tweets with harmful content, which I've immediately
> reported to Twitter.
> I've blocked it and will just ignore it without further concern but, does anyone
> here knows about that list ?
>
> Pascal

Same here,
I never came across it, and am glad you reported it. Thus I hope it will be
completely removed by the time we would try and make any real  one (Though I
didn't connect to twitter for a whiile and rather contemplated Diaspora/Mastodon
....But I did find a lot of truly POV related content on Instagram !

[Kenneth] Re: POV-Ray Twitter list ? [1562 days 4 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Sun, 26 Dec 2021 03:00:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>
> I do not use twitter
> myself at all...

Same here.

And since I am not currently interested in purchasing any nail polish, I think
I'll avoid that twitter group :-P

[Thomas de Groot] Re: POV-Ray Twitter list ? [1562 days 21 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Sat, 25 Dec 2021 09:22:43 GMT

Op 25-12-2021 om 09:45 schreef BayashiPascal:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> Did you recognise any twitter's names?
> 
> Nope :-/
> 
I seem to remember, somewhen early this year, that I came across this 
while looking for something completely unrelated. I do not use twitter 
myself at all, but from what I can dig up from google (through 
'Startpage' anonymous view) are some images that /might/ have been made 
with POV-Ray, but which have never been shown/discussed here as far as I 
can tell. All rather 1990's style at first glance. So... better to 
avoid, I would say.

-- 
Thomas

[BayashiPascal] Re: POV-Ray Twitter list ? [1562 days 22 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Sat, 25 Dec 2021 08:50:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Did you recognise any twitter's names?

Nope :-/

[Thomas de Groot] Re: POV-Ray Twitter list ? [1562 days 23 hours and 52 minutes ago]

Sat, 25 Dec 2021 07:29:27 GMT

Op 24/12/2021 om 01:53 schreef BayashiPascal:
> Hi everyone,
> Yesterday I've found myself surprised to have been added to the POV-Ray twitter
> list, which I had never heard of, by a user nicknamed Pix Thagoras, which I
> believe I don't know. The list has 8 members and doesn't contain much tweets
> related to POV-Ray except for a bot posting images of a nail polish bottle.
> Beside it also contains tweets with harmful content, which I've immediately
> reported to Twitter.
> I've blocked it and will just ignore it without further concern but, does anyone
> here knows about that list ?
> 
> Pascal
> 
> 
I don't know. Imho, not something started 'officially' by the POV-Team. 
Probably a private initiative from somebody, typically I guess not 
active on these newsgroups. Did you recognise any twitter's names?

-- 
Thomas

[BayashiPascal] POV-Ray Twitter list ? [1564 days 6 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Dec 2021 00:55:00 GMT

Hi everyone,
Yesterday I've found myself surprised to have been added to the POV-Ray twitter
list, which I had never heard of, by a user nicknamed Pix Thagoras, which I
believe I don't know. The list has 8 members and doesn't contain much tweets
related to POV-Ray except for a bot posting images of a nail polish bottle.
Beside it also contains tweets with harmful content, which I've immediately
reported to Twitter.
I've blocked it and will just ignore it without further concern but, does anyone
here knows about that list ?

Pascal

[Thomas de Groot] Spammer: Shanard Late Shop [1571 days 23 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Thu, 16 Dec 2021 07:59:56 GMT

Another spammer <sigh> surfaced in 'p.animations' today. Used Bald 
Eagle's 'Help with SDL for Bouncing Ball' post (an oldy from 2016).

-- 
Thomas

[Jim Henderson] Re: new toy [1574 days 10 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Dec 2021 20:41:25 GMT

On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 15:40:15 -0500, Jim Henderson wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 11:09:22 -0800, Alessio Sangalli wrote:
> 
>> Why would you have a swap space on that machine, or on any modern
>> machine.
>> I haven't created swap partitions (or files) on any decent machine
>> since the early 2000's.
> 
> Suspend to disk requires it.

(Granted, 8 GB swap on a 128 GB system won't work for that.....I'm just 
stating that that's a reason to create a swap partition)



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Jim Henderson] Re: new toy [1574 days 10 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Dec 2021 20:40:15 GMT

On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 11:09:22 -0800, Alessio Sangalli wrote:

> Why would you have a swap space on that machine, or on any modern
> machine.
> I haven't created swap partitions (or files) on any decent machine since
> the early 2000's.

Suspend to disk requires it.



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Alessio Sangalli] Re: Is my life easier yet? [1574 days 11 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Dec 2021 19:26:32 GMT

On 02-Oct-21 17:10, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> Please don't ask me to use the command line. I cannot remember the CLI
> options from one hour to the next.

Do you only use 3D modelers to come up with POV-Ray scenes, and you use 
POV-Ray as a backend only?

[Alessio Sangalli] Re: new toy [1574 days 12 hours and 12 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Dec 2021 19:09:22 GMT

On 06-Dec-21 17:51, Dick Balaska wrote:

> that's only 3.9% of the memory.Â  I think the 8GB swap space looks almost 
> silly by comparison.

Why would you have a swap space on that machine, or on any modern 
machine. I haven't created swap partitions (or files) on any decent 
machine since the early 2000's.

[Kenneth] Re: new toy [1578 days 19 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Thu, 9 Dec 2021 11:45:00 GMT

Congratulations!

128MB ram!  **sigh**

> But the day the new box
> arrived, the old one died. I guess she was jealous.
>

Naturally, ha! The old computer has a proximity detector; it sensed the new box
and quietly bowed to the superior machine. Ah, the wonders of modern technology.

I call that "just-in-time computing" :-P

[Ton] Re: new toy [1579 days 8 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Wed, 8 Dec 2021 22:50:00 GMT

Dick Balaska <dic### [at] buckosoftcom> wrote:
> I got me a new-to-me toy for $1000.  It's a dual 6 core Xeon. But what
> really appealed to me was
> MiB Mem : 128844.0 total, 121162.3 free,   5763.2 used,   1918.5 buff
> MiB Swap:   8192.0 total,   8192.0 free,      0.0 used. 122121.8 avail
>
>      PID USER      PR  NI    VIRT    RES    SHR S  %CPU  %MEM     TIME+
> COMMAND
>     1479 minecra+  20   0   11.3g   4.9g  29444 S   7.6   3.9 459:17.72
> java -Xms4096M -Xmx4096M -jar /opt/msm/servers/+
>
> 128GB memory. :) It's pretty wild that I can give 4GB to minecraft and
> that's only 3.9% of the memory.  I think the 8GB swap space looks almost
> silly by comparison.
>
> I use a Pi for my firewall and it's not able to keep up. I get 10Mb/s
> through it, but the boxes on the other side of my firewall are nearing
> 100Mb/s.  So I was going to replace my linux server with the new box and
> repurpose the old server as my firewall. But the day the new box
> arrived, the old one died. I guess she was jealous.
>
> dik

I think I have to talk to my financial director, aka wife.....

[Dick Balaska] new toy [1581 days 5 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Tue, 7 Dec 2021 01:51:23 GMT

I got me a new-to-me toy for $1000.  It's a dual 6 core Xeon. But what 
really appealed to me was
MiB Mem : 128844.0 total, 121162.3 free,   5763.2 used,   1918.5 buff
MiB Swap:   8192.0 total,   8192.0 free,      0.0 used. 122121.8 avail

     PID USER      PR  NI    VIRT    RES    SHR S  %CPU  %MEM     TIME+ 
COMMAND
    1479 minecra+  20   0   11.3g   4.9g  29444 S   7.6   3.9 459:17.72 
java -Xms4096M -Xmx4096M -jar /opt/msm/servers/+

128GB memory. :) It's pretty wild that I can give 4GB to minecraft and 
that's only 3.9% of the memory.  I think the 8GB swap space looks almost 
silly by comparison.

I use a Pi for my firewall and it's not able to keep up. I get 10Mb/s 
through it, but the boxes on the other side of my firewall are nearing 
100Mb/s.  So I was going to replace my linux server with the new box and 
repurpose the old server as my firewall. But the day the new box 
arrived, the old one died. I guess she was jealous.

dik

[Chris Cason] Re: Spammer: feeling blue [1585 days 10 hours and 12 minutes ago]

Thu, 2 Dec 2021 21:09:00 GMT

On 3/12/2021 02:56, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> It seems we have spammer active in p.b.image named: 'feeling blue'.

Fixed, thanks for letting me know.

-- Chris

[Thomas de Groot] Spammer: feeling blue [1585 days 15 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Thu, 2 Dec 2021 15:56:10 GMT

It seems we have spammer active in p.b.image named: 'feeling blue'.

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: I'm not sleeping... [1597 days 23 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Sat, 20 Nov 2021 07:37:03 GMT

Op 19/11/2021 om 19:39 schreef Bald Eagle:
> Yes.  I've been running into a lot of problems with current manufacture stuff
> lately.  Cracked a cell phone and killed the backlight, tried to make a clone
> with a donor phone.  Got a brand new LG phone, and one day - it just stopped
> working.  Completely.  Hardly any use at all.
> 
> It's an example of a phenomenon that I call "for display purposes only".  It's a
> thing that LOOKS like what you want - it's made out of generally the same stuff
> as what you want, and is in the shape of what you want, but it's manufacture so
> cheaply, and with such low quality of materials and workmanship, that it's worse
> than useless.   It's just for display on the shelf or the peg - to get you to
> spend your money, and then ...  tough crap, buddy.
>


That's the modern world it appears. Just to mention a few, 'Programmed 
Obsolescence" being one of those trends, together with the almost 
monopolistic dumping on the world market of Chinese products which have, 
overall, less than average quality, even when sold under 
'prestigious'(?) brand names. People want to buy 'cheap' and this is the 
result. No wonder the world is going to crap. :-/  [end rant]

Sorry to read about your problems. I have no solution to offer, I am 
afraid, but from time to time I stumble also into similar nonsensical 
market shit.

-- 
Thomas

[Bald Eagle] Re: I'm not sleeping... [1598 days 12 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Fri, 19 Nov 2021 18:40:00 GMT

"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> > No, not the Counting Crows song.
> >
> > Primary laptop has spazzed out ...
>
> Bummer. I hope you can fix it. That kind of thing is maddening.
>
> My previous Windows 7 machine has been sitting un-used (and un-usable) on my
> desk for months, due to *some* kind of software problem, waiting for me to take
> it in for a deep diagnostic.

I'm going to try "SuperGrub2" as a repair usb stick.  Maybe see if that's in any
way applicable, or if there's another Windows rescue ISO or other tool.  Can you
boot from a USB or CD/DVD?  Do you have a Win7 repair disk?

I have a few things to do before I dive any deeper into this electronic
shitshow, but I'm sure I will work it out, and then I can move on.
jr is like my Linux and spiritual mentor...  :D

> If automobile manufacturers built cars to the same 'expected lifespans' of
> current computers and OS systems, there would be class-action lawsuits flying in
> all directions. I personally think that OS's have outstripped the ability of
> mere humans to fully understand and diagnose hidden problems.
>
> I certainly have a 'love-hate' relationship with computers. :-[

Yes.  I've been running into a lot of problems with current manufacture stuff
lately.  Cracked a cell phone and killed the backlight, tried to make a clone
with a donor phone.  Got a brand new LG phone, and one day - it just stopped
working.  Completely.  Hardly any use at all.

It's an example of a phenomenon that I call "for display purposes only".  It's a
thing that LOOKS like what you want - it's made out of generally the same stuff
as what you want, and is in the shape of what you want, but it's manufacture so
cheaply, and with such low quality of materials and workmanship, that it's worse
than useless.   It's just for display on the shelf or the peg - to get you to
spend your money, and then ...  tough crap, buddy.

Apparently other people are well aware of this as well.
From:   https://paulsellers.com/2015/05/saw-files-lasting-qualities/

"I do not understand why so many companies insist on making imitations — things
that look like tools, but do not in fact function as tools. As a novice, I was
almost entirely dissuaded from hand tools because I believed that those things
on the shelf that look like a plane or a saw were, in fact, decent functioning
tools, and not hunks of metal merely shaped to look like a tool and cause
frustration to anyone who picks it up and actually tries to use it!

I have found that my best functioning tools are the ones that I make myself, and
the ones that I find at flea markets or on ebay and restore. Your videos really
encouraged me to do just these things, and I wanted to thank you for sharing
your knowledge and pointing me in the right direction! My relationship with my
tools has gone from one of frustration to one of joy and confidence, and has
really changed my experience of woodworking. I feel bad for all of the young
people like myself who have were turned off from hand tools because they bought
something at a big box store, and that shaped their impression of a saw, plane,
or chisel."

[BayashiPascal] Re: I'm not sleeping... [1599 days and 31 minutes ago]

Fri, 19 Nov 2021 06:50:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> No, not the Counting Crows song.
>
> Primary laptop has spazzed out - linux mint logo appears, then I get a blinking
> cursor (underscore) and that's the extent of my OS for the time being.  HDD's
> not dead - I can boot up with a USB stick and access all the files.
> I think it has something to do with video...  but not sure how to fix it and get
> back to a default state.
>
> My backup laptop (this) boots up fine, but frequently I find it as an
> unresponsive black screen in the morning, and have to reboot.
>
> So, those are (some of) the challenges I'm experiencing right now.

Have you tried to switch to another virtual console when you're stuck on the
blank screen with the blinking cursor? You can do so using Ctrl + Alt + (any of
the function keys). I sometime experience the case where the X session starts
running in its console and the text console used for booting keeps the hand.
Simply switching the console bring me back to normal. At least you may have
another text console still alive, which would leave you the opportunity for
troubleshooting.
Hoping it may help you.
Pascal

[Kenneth] Re: I'm not sleeping... [1599 days 2 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Fri, 19 Nov 2021 05:15:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> No, not the Counting Crows song.
>
> Primary laptop has spazzed out ...

Bummer. I hope you can fix it. That kind of thing is maddening.

My previous Windows 7 machine has been sitting un-used (and un-usable) on my
desk for months, due to *some* kind of software problem, waiting for me to take
it in for a deep diagnostic. I *hope* it's fixable. Software? Power supply? I
really don't know. This situation 'forced' me to buy a new Win 10 machine, a
super-fast Lenovo desktop with my first SSHD, so I'm not complaining-- but I
always have the nagging feeling that *this* machine will develop some kind of
problem in the future too, no matter *what* I do right or wrong. They always do.

If automobile manufacturers built cars to the same 'expected lifespans' of
current computers and OS systems, there would be class-action lawsuits flying in
all directions. I personally think that OS's have outstripped the ability of
mere humans to fully understand and diagnose hidden problems.

I certainly have a 'love-hate' relationship with computers. :-[

[Samuel B ] Re: I'm not sleeping... [1599 days 8 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Thu, 18 Nov 2021 22:30:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> No, not the Counting Crows song.
>
> Primary laptop has spazzed out - linux mint logo appears, then I get a blinking
> cursor (underscore) and that's the extent of my OS for the time being.  HDD's
> not dead - I can boot up with a USB stick and access all the files.
> I think it has something to do with video...  but not sure how to fix it and get
> back to a default state.
>
> My backup laptop (this) boots up fine, but frequently I find it as an
> unresponsive black screen in the morning, and have to reboot.
>
> So, those are (some of) the challenges I'm experiencing right now.

Hi Bald Eagle,

Wow, that really sucks.

I have zero experience with Linux... And I can't even properly diagnose my own
hardware issues (computer hard freezing when stressed), but have you run am
internet search using the following keywords? linux not booting blinking cursor

One person was saying it might be an issue with a full disk.

My only useful suggestion is to backup anything important pronto.

I really hope you don't need a new rig, but if you do, some good deals might be
found on ebay. That's how I got a semi-used laptop for cheap many years ago.

Regarding the lack of sleep... my only ideas for that involve chemical
intervention and physical exertion (the latter being something I don't practice
often enough :/ ).

Sam

[Bald Eagle] I'm not sleeping... [1599 days 11 hours and 1 minute ago]

Thu, 18 Nov 2021 20:20:00 GMT

No, not the Counting Crows song.

Primary laptop has spazzed out - linux mint logo appears, then I get a blinking
cursor (underscore) and that's the extent of my OS for the time being.  HDD's
not dead - I can boot up with a USB stick and access all the files.
I think it has something to do with video...  but not sure how to fix it and get
back to a default state.

My backup laptop (this) boots up fine, but frequently I find it as an
unresponsive black screen in the morning, and have to reboot.

So, those are (some of) the challenges I'm experiencing right now.

[Chris Rath] testing [1606 days 16 hours and 47 minutes ago]

Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:34:43 GMT

Sorry, testing Thunderbird...

-- 
-- Chris Rath

[Dick Balaska] Re: test [1608 days 6 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Wed, 10 Nov 2021 00:45:35 GMT

On 11/9/2021 7:45 PM, Dick Balaska wrote:
> On 11/9/2021 3:46 PM, Chris Cason wrote:
>> test
> back up?
yay

[Dick Balaska] Re: test [1608 days 6 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Wed, 10 Nov 2021 00:45:21 GMT

On 11/9/2021 3:46 PM, Chris Cason wrote:
> test
back up?

[Chris Cason] test [1608 days 10 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Tue, 9 Nov 2021 20:46:24 GMT

test

[BayashiPascal] Re: Git branches on local machine? [1616 days 18 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Mon, 1 Nov 2021 13:15:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:

Glad you've found how to make it works.

> how long did it take you all?

I can't tell. I've been using version control systems before Git since around
2000. So the concepts already looked natural to me when I started using Git. I
guess it depends on how often you're using it. If it's every day like I do it
shouldn't take long. And even less if you're working on small projects where
only very few commands are enough.
I recommend you to try online interactive tutorials like the one below to get
use to the basics:
https://learngitbranching.js.org/

Have fun !

Pascal

[Jim Henderson] Re: Git branches on local machine? [1617 days 6 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Mon, 1 Nov 2021 00:50:40 GMT

On Sun, 31 Oct 2021 19:29:01 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> Eventually, I figured out--or so I think--that I skipped a step in the
> sandbox, and that's why I couldn't get it to work.  (Like I said in the
> last thread, my head can't seem to retain Git commands and procedures
> past an hour or so.)  I applied that step, and things then looked as you
> described.  I presume that this shit will become intuitive at some
> point; how long did it take you all?

I had worked with Subversion and Perforce previously, so the only thing 
that was really different for me using git was the lack of file locking 
(which is by design).

I still learn things off and on when I go back to using it - not quite as 
frequently as I used to.  And when I was learning it, I had a really 
awesome development team that I was working with who helped me when I got 
into trouble.  The good news is that with git, as long as something's 
been committed, you can usually recover it even in the most dire of 
circumstances (as long as it's in a local and at least one remote repo).  
The bad news is that sometimes it can be *really* ugly figuring out how 
to fix things if multiple people are committing to the same repo and are 
not communicating effectively.

The single most important thing is to ensure that all files you're 
working on in the repo are tracked by git.  If they're not, when you 
switch branches, they'll still be there, and that can get really 
confusing, really fast.  (Unless it's something that you *meant* to not 
track, like a config file, for example).

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Git branches on local machine? [1617 days 7 hours and 52 minutes ago]

Sun, 31 Oct 2021 23:29:01 GMT

On 2021-10-24 5:14 AM (-4), BayashiPascal wrote:
> 
> The files you're seeing in the directory of the repository are the files of the
> currently selected branch. 'git status' will tell you on which branch you
> currently are if you forgot. To select a branch, you can use 'git checkout
> name_your_branch'. After selecting another branch, if you look again in the
> directory it will contain the files of that selected branch. Behind the scene
> git moves files from/to hidden folders, so everything is there but you only see
> the files of one branch at a time.

Thanks, that's really clever!

I haven't been ignoring you.  I've just been spending the past week
trying to deal with it. I set up a sandbox repo to try to see what was
going on, couldn't get the branching to work, set up a 2nd sandbox repo,
re-watched that hour long tutorial video, paused it every few seconds to
take detailed notes, rewound the video frequently, returned to the 1st
sandbox video, and went back and forth between Git-Cola, the command
line, and my notes.

Eventually, I figured out--or so I think--that I skipped a step in the
sandbox, and that's why I couldn't get it to work.  (Like I said in the
last thread, my head can't seem to retain Git commands and procedures
past an hour or so.)  I applied that step, and things then looked as you
described.  I presume that this shit will become intuitive at some
point; how long did it take you all?

[Samuel B ] Re: I saw a very strange bug [1618 days 7 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Sat, 30 Oct 2021 23:55:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Op 29/10/2021 om 00:58 schreef Samuel B.:
> > Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
(...)
> >> "Here There Be Tygers"  ;-)
> >
> > Lol, I'm not sure if you're comparing bee flies to fictitious creatures such as
> > dragons at oceans' end, or something like ligers. (...)
>
> Oh, great! I was not referring to the bee flies in fact but to the
> notion that - even in our back garden - we may find little critters we
> have never seen before. With additional climate change, alien visitors
> may even become more common...
>
> It took me a long while to recognise the larval stage of the Ladybugs... :-0

Yeah, when I was little I used to see these tiny monsters apparently hanging
half in and half out of walls. They really freaked me out. Turns out they were
ladybug larva husks :P

Sam

[Thomas de Groot] Re: I saw a very strange bug [1620 days and 31 minutes ago]

Fri, 29 Oct 2021 06:50:46 GMT

Op 29/10/2021 om 00:58 schreef Samuel B.:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> Op 27/10/2021 om 22:06 schreef Samuel B.:
>>> "Mr" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>>>> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>>>>> I tried to search for such a thing, but did not turn up anything remotely
>>>>> resembling this beast.
>>>>
>>>> I know the feeling, I saw a couple of times some mini bees that were not bigger
>>>> than 3 or 4 millimeters and this felt unnatural.
>>>
>>> I would like to see those myself. Were they some sort of bee fly, perhaps?
>>
>> "Here There Be Tygers"  ;-)
> 
> Lol, I'm not sure if you're comparing bee flies to fictitious creatures such as
> dragons at oceans' end, or something like ligers.
> 
> (This just in: ligers are real, but the males are apparently sterile.)
> 
> Anyway, bee flies are really cool. Much more well-behaved than common
> houseflies... In fact, you can catch one if you're patient enough. They tend to
> hover back and forth in the air, and if you are calm and match their movements
> by waving your at the same pace they are wavering, you might just get one to
> land on your fingertip. Not sure what the point of doing it is, but it's a neat
> thing to do :D
> 

Oh, great! I was not referring to the bee flies in fact but to the 
notion that - even in our back garden - we may find little critters we 
have never seen before. With additional climate change, alien visitors 
may even become more common...

It took me a long while to recognise the larval stage of the Ladybugs... :-0

-- 
Thomas

[Samuel B ] Re: I saw a very strange bug [1620 days 8 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Thu, 28 Oct 2021 23:00:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Op 27/10/2021 om 22:06 schreef Samuel B.:
> > "Mr" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> >> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> >>> I tried to search for such a thing, but did not turn up anything remotely
> >>> resembling this beast.
> >>
> >> I know the feeling, I saw a couple of times some mini bees that were not bigger
> >> than 3 or 4 millimeters and this felt unnatural.
> >
> > I would like to see those myself. Were they some sort of bee fly, perhaps?
>
> "Here There Be Tygers"  ;-)

Lol, I'm not sure if you're comparing bee flies to fictitious creatures such as
dragons at oceans' end, or something like ligers.

(This just in: ligers are real, but the males are apparently sterile.)

Anyway, bee flies are really cool. Much more well-behaved than common
houseflies... In fact, you can catch one if you're patient enough. They tend to
hover back and forth in the air, and if you are calm and match their movements
by waving your at the same pace they are wavering, you might just get one to
land on your fingertip. Not sure what the point of doing it is, but it's a neat
thing to do :D

Sam

[Thomas de Groot] Re: I saw a very strange bug [1621 days and 28 minutes ago]

Thu, 28 Oct 2021 06:53:40 GMT

Op 27/10/2021 om 22:06 schreef Samuel B.:
> "Mr" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> (...)
>>> I tried to search for such a thing, but did not turn up anything remotely
>>> resembling this beast.
>>
>> I know the feeling, I saw a couple of times some mini bees that were not bigger
>> than 3 or 4 millimeters and this felt unnatural.
> 
> I would like to see those myself. Were they some sort of bee fly, perhaps?
> 
> Sam
> 

"Here There Be Tygers"  ;-)

-- 
Thomas

[Samuel B ] Re: I saw a very strange bug [1621 days 11 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Wed, 27 Oct 2021 20:10:00 GMT

"Mr" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
(...)
> > I tried to search for such a thing, but did not turn up anything remotely
> > resembling this beast.
>
> I know the feeling, I saw a couple of times some mini bees that were not bigger
> than 3 or 4 millimeters and this felt unnatural.

I would like to see those myself. Were they some sort of bee fly, perhaps?

Sam

[Jim Henderson] Re: Git branches on local machine? [1624 days 12 hours and 12 minutes ago]

Sun, 24 Oct 2021 19:09:15 GMT

On Sat, 23 Oct 2021 23:11:32 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> On 2021-10-13 7:22 PM (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Sat, 23 Oct 2021 19:17:07 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>> 
>>> There is something I don't understand about Git branches.
>>>
>>> I have some projects that have been on my hard disk for years, but
>>> have just recently converted to Git repositories.  I want to start a
>>> branch on one of them.  My understanding is that Git tracks changes in
>>> both the main/master branch and the new branch.  But I only have one
>>> working copy of the actual files in my directory.  Which branch do
>>> these files represent, and where are the files of the other branch? 
>>> How does this all work?
>> 
>> The only change tracking is on the active branch.  If you're working
>> outside of master, no changes you make are recorded in master unless
>> you either do a cherry pick or a merge - in either case, at the point
>> of the merge or cherry pick, the changes you've made (or selected, in
>> the case of a cherry pick) are brought into the target branch (can be
>> master, can be some other branch).
>> 
>> In git, you're only ever working in a single branch, ever.
> 
> But which branch are my files attached to?  If I switch branches, where
> are the files in the new branch that I want to edit?

The branch that's active is where your files are, assuming you did a 'git 
add' (or equivalent).  With git, you have to tell it that you've added 
new files so it will track them.

If you switch branches, the files are in the branch where you added them 
- and only in that branch.



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[BayashiPascal] Re: Git branches on local machine? [1624 days 22 hours and 1 minute ago]

Sun, 24 Oct 2021 09:20:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> There is something I don't understand about Git branches.
>
> I have some projects that have been on my hard disk for years, but have
> just recently converted to Git repositories.  I want to start a branch
> on one of them.  My understanding is that Git tracks changes in both the
> main/master branch and the new branch.  But I only have one working copy
> of the actual files in my directory.  Which branch do these files
> represent, and where are the files of the other branch?  How does this
> all work?

The files you're seeing in the directory of the repository are the files of the
currently selected branch. 'git status' will tell you on which branch you
currently are if you forgot. To select a branch, you can use 'git checkout
name_your_branch'. After selecting another branch, if you look again in the
directory it will contain the files of that selected branch. Behind the scene
git moves files from/to hidden folders, so everything is there but you only see
the files of one branch at a time.

Pascal

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Git branches on local machine? [1625 days 4 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Sun, 24 Oct 2021 03:11:32 GMT

On 2021-10-13 7:22 PM (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Oct 2021 19:17:07 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> 
>> There is something I don't understand about Git branches.
>>
>> I have some projects that have been on my hard disk for years, but have
>> just recently converted to Git repositories.  I want to start a branch
>> on one of them.  My understanding is that Git tracks changes in both the
>> main/master branch and the new branch.  But I only have one working copy
>> of the actual files in my directory.  Which branch do these files
>> represent, and where are the files of the other branch?  How does this
>> all work?
> 
> The only change tracking is on the active branch.  If you're working 
> outside of master, no changes you make are recorded in master unless you 
> either do a cherry pick or a merge - in either case, at the point of the 
> merge or cherry pick, the changes you've made (or selected, in the case 
> of a cherry pick) are brought into the target branch (can be master, can 
> be some other branch).
> 
> In git, you're only ever working in a single branch, ever.

But which branch are my files attached to?  If I switch branches, where
are the files in the new branch that I want to edit?

[Jim Henderson] Re: Git branches on local machine? [1625 days 7 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Sat, 23 Oct 2021 23:22:29 GMT

On Sat, 23 Oct 2021 19:17:07 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> There is something I don't understand about Git branches.
> 
> I have some projects that have been on my hard disk for years, but have
> just recently converted to Git repositories.  I want to start a branch
> on one of them.  My understanding is that Git tracks changes in both the
> main/master branch and the new branch.  But I only have one working copy
> of the actual files in my directory.  Which branch do these files
> represent, and where are the files of the other branch?  How does this
> all work?

The only change tracking is on the active branch.  If you're working 
outside of master, no changes you make are recorded in master unless you 
either do a cherry pick or a merge - in either case, at the point of the 
merge or cherry pick, the changes you've made (or selected, in the case 
of a cherry pick) are brought into the target branch (can be master, can 
be some other branch).

In git, you're only ever working in a single branch, ever.

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Cousin Ricky] Git branches on local machine? [1625 days 8 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Sat, 23 Oct 2021 23:17:08 GMT

There is something I don't understand about Git branches.

I have some projects that have been on my hard disk for years, but have
just recently converted to Git repositories.  I want to start a branch
on one of them.  My understanding is that Git tracks changes in both the
main/master branch and the new branch.  But I only have one working copy
of the actual files in my directory.  Which branch do these files
represent, and where are the files of the other branch?  How does this
all work?

[Mr] Re: I saw a very strange bug [1635 days 19 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Wed, 13 Oct 2021 12:15:00 GMT

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> There have been many spider wasps around lately. Dark blue, twitchy, and always
> on the hunt for poor, unsuspecting arachnids in which they can lay their eggs.
>
> But today I saw something a bit different... It looked kind of like a small,
> dark wolf spider. Between 5/8 inch to 2.25 cm in diameter, including legs. Its
> thorax was larger than its abdomen, and it was a dark blue color. And it had
> tiny wings. WTF? It had /wings/, yet it also had long legs like a spider. What
> tf did I see? I went to get my phone to take a shot, but by the time I came back
> out there was nothing there but a regular wolf-like spider.
>
> I'm not the only one who saw it, so I'm not crazy this time, haha.
>
> I suppose that it's possible - with my slowly failing eyesight - I saw a spider
> wasp in the process of securing another victim, but I don't think so. This thing
> looked like a singular entity. Half spider, half wasp.
>
> I tried to search for such a thing, but did not turn up anything remotely
> resembling this beast.
>
> Sam

I know the feeling, I saw a couple of times some mini bees that were not bigger
than 3 or 4 millimeters and this felt unnatural.

[Dick Balaska] Re: Is my life easier yet? [1637 days 6 hours and 58 minutes ago]

Tue, 12 Oct 2021 00:22:56 GMT

On 10/3/2021 8:57 PM, Kenneth wrote:
> Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> 
>>
>> I think I've seen enough tutorials to learn the basics of Git, and I've
>> installed Git-Cola because I need an easy visual reference for what's
>> going on.
> 
> Not that I know *anything* about this stuff, but...
> 
> On the Wikipedia page "Comparison of Git GUIs", it lists 50+ apps there, or
> whatever they are. Perhaps there is another easier-to-use (and 'visual') tool
> than git-cola? It's workings sound like a nightmare to fathom, from your
> description.

I really really like SmartGit.
You can't get around having to understand the basics of git (what it 
does), but SmartGit does a great job of burying it by default.

[Jim Henderson] Re: Is my life easier yet? [1637 days 11 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Mon, 11 Oct 2021 19:45:07 GMT

On Mon, 11 Oct 2021 10:48:25 -0400, Mr wrote:

> Please the experts correct me if I'm wrong, but here is the beliefs that
> have kept me relatively out trouble for a while:
> Almost number one thing to understand, maybe someone already explained:
> but
> 
> Remember that commit and push are two different actions (picture
> attached) and that you have to do both every time you "finalize" some
> changes so that your local(commit) and remote(push) repositories stay in
> synch.

That is correct.  Commit just creates a revision in the local repo.  Push 
uploads your commits to the remote repo.

> 
> Git is specific because it is decentralized (every developer works on a
> local duplicate copy of the whole project tree) and its workflow can be
> pictured as a raft boat floating on the water of that remote whole
> project, because you can keep your local changes floating over the
> changes made by other people while you were working, by doing a pull
> --rebase (think of your changes as being held aside, the other dev's
> update done and then your updates layered over as if they had been made
> after.)
> 
> So, it is best practice to *always* do that pull --rebase (avoiding many
> blocking  "repo not clean" error) at least before pushing your changes
> and also additionally anytime you suspect some remote changes may impact
> your current work to correct it accordingly and avoid drafty history.

That is a good practice, certainly - I was going with the assumption that 
Ricky was the only committer to his repo.

It's generally considered best practice for developers to work in their 
own branches, and then to merge their branch back with the main branch 
when their work is done.

That way, multiple developers can be working on different things without 
stepping on each other - and the merge is the right place to resolve any 
conflicts.  This also encourages (per Linus' intention in the design of 
git) communication between developers, since file locking isn't a thing 
that happens in git (some see that as a weakness; but file locking 
encourages less communication, so I see where he's coming from).

(I'm nowhere near an expert, but this is just based on my experience 
working with a development team)

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Mr] Re: Is my life easier yet? [1637 days 16 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Mon, 11 Oct 2021 14:50:00 GMT

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Oct 2021 08:40:08 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>
> > On 2021-10-06 10:55 PM(-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
> >> On 2021-10-06 12:09 PM (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 05 Oct 2021 23:18:53 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> >>>> Damn.  I added a license and readme to GitHub, tried to pull the
> >>>> changes to my local repo, and it's still giving me exit status 128.
> >>>> Do I have to do this rebase thing every time I make a change?  Why
> >>>> does every simple thing have to be so freaking complicated?
> >>>
> >>> A rebase shouldn't be needed every time - how did you add the license/
> >>> readme to github?
> >>
> >> When you create an empty repo on GitHub, it encourages you to create a
> >> readme and a license as part of the creation process.
> >>
> >> For the rest of my modules, I sidestepped the problem by creating the
> >> readme and license files in my local directories, and uploading them as
> >> part of the initial push.
> >
> > Ignore that last answer; it's not just that all this wrestling with Git
> > has caused me to lose track of days, it has caused me to lose track of
> > my state of confusion.  Actually, after I pushed the project to GitHub,
> > I used the buttons dedicated to adding the readme and the license.
>
> Once done, you probably just needed to do a pull before making additional
> changes in your local copy.  But since those would be the only files that
> changed upstream, a rebase (or the stash option I mentioned earlier)
> should resolve it.
>
> The only time a rebase should be necessary is if there are changes both
> remote and local that need to be reconciled, IIRC.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> --
> "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
> besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Please the experts correct me if I'm wrong, but here is the beliefs that have
kept me relatively out trouble for a while:
Almost number one thing to understand, maybe someone already explained: but

Remember that commit and push are two different actions (picture attached) and
that you have to do both every time you "finalize" some changes so that your
local(commit) and remote(push) repositories stay in synch.

Git is specific because it is decentralized (every developer works on a local
duplicate copy of the whole project tree) and its workflow can be pictured as a
raft boat floating on the water of that remote whole project, because you can
keep your local changes floating over the changes made by other people while you
were working, by doing a pull --rebase (think of your changes as being held
aside, the other dev's update done
and then your updates layered over as if they had been made after.)

So, it is best practice to *always* do that pull --rebase (avoiding many
blocking  "repo not clean" error) at least before pushing your changes and also
additionally anytime you suspect some remote changes may impact your current
work to correct it accordingly and avoid drafty history.

[Jim Henderson] Re: Is my life easier yet? [1640 days 16 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Fri, 8 Oct 2021 15:12:20 GMT

On Thu, 07 Oct 2021 08:40:08 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> On 2021-10-06 10:55 PM(-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
>> On 2021-10-06 12:09 PM (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> On Tue, 05 Oct 2021 23:18:53 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>>>> Damn.  I added a license and readme to GitHub, tried to pull the
>>>> changes to my local repo, and it's still giving me exit status 128. 
>>>> Do I have to do this rebase thing every time I make a change?  Why
>>>> does every simple thing have to be so freaking complicated?
>>>
>>> A rebase shouldn't be needed every time - how did you add the license/
>>> readme to github?
>> 
>> When you create an empty repo on GitHub, it encourages you to create a
>> readme and a license as part of the creation process.
>> 
>> For the rest of my modules, I sidestepped the problem by creating the
>> readme and license files in my local directories, and uploading them as
>> part of the initial push.
> 
> Ignore that last answer; it's not just that all this wrestling with Git
> has caused me to lose track of days, it has caused me to lose track of
> my state of confusion.  Actually, after I pushed the project to GitHub,
> I used the buttons dedicated to adding the readme and the license.

Once done, you probably just needed to do a pull before making additional 
changes in your local copy.  But since those would be the only files that 
changed upstream, a rebase (or the stash option I mentioned earlier) 
should resolve it.

The only time a rebase should be necessary is if there are changes both 
remote and local that need to be reconciled, IIRC.

Jim



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Is my life easier yet? [1641 days 18 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Thu, 7 Oct 2021 12:40:08 GMT

On 2021-10-06 10:55 PM(-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
> On 2021-10-06 12:09 PM (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Tue, 05 Oct 2021 23:18:53 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>>> Damn.  I added a license and readme to GitHub, tried to pull the changes
>>> to my local repo, and it's still giving me exit status 128.  Do I have
>>> to do this rebase thing every time I make a change?  Why does every
>>> simple thing have to be so freaking complicated?
>>
>> A rebase shouldn't be needed every time - how did you add the license/
>> readme to github?
> 
> When you create an empty repo on GitHub, it encourages you to create a
> readme and a license as part of the creation process.
> 
> For the rest of my modules, I sidestepped the problem by creating the
> readme and license files in my local directories, and uploading them as
> part of the initial push.

Ignore that last answer; it's not just that all this wrestling with Git
has caused me to lose track of days, it has caused me to lose track of
my state of confusion.  Actually, after I pushed the project to GitHub,
I used the buttons dedicated to adding the readme and the license.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Is my life easier yet? [1642 days 4 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Thu, 7 Oct 2021 02:55:16 GMT

On 2021-10-06 12:09 PM (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Oct 2021 23:18:53 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>> Damn.  I added a license and readme to GitHub, tried to pull the changes
>> to my local repo, and it's still giving me exit status 128.  Do I have
>> to do this rebase thing every time I make a change?  Why does every
>> simple thing have to be so freaking complicated?
> 
> A rebase shouldn't be needed every time - how did you add the license/
> readme to github?

When you create an empty repo on GitHub, it encourages you to create a
readme and a license as part of the creation process.

For the rest of my modules, I sidestepped the problem by creating the
readme and license files in my local directories, and uploading them as
part of the initial push.

[Jim Henderson] Re: Is my life easier yet? [1642 days 15 hours and 12 minutes ago]

Wed, 6 Oct 2021 16:09:09 GMT

On Tue, 05 Oct 2021 23:18:53 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> On 2021-10-05 10:19 PM (-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
>> On 2021-10-04 7:01 PM (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> It sounds like you probably need to do a rebase.  I don't know how to
>>> do that in git-cola, but basically a pull just pulls the changes from
>>> the remote repository.  A rebase "is the process of moving or
>>> combining a sequence of commits to a new base commit. Rebasing is most
>>> useful and easily visualized in the context of a feature branching
>>> workflow." (from
>>> https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/rewriting-history/git-rebase)
>>>
>>> What I might be inclined to do (I work from the CLI) is:
>>>
>>>  git stash git pull --rebase git stash pop
>>>
>>> Stash puts your changes in a ... stash.  (I know, kinda useless self-
>>> referential definition).  It sets them aside.  The pull --rebase does
>>> the rebase, basically making sure you have a clean copy of the
>>> upstream repo.
>>> The stash pop then re-applies the diffs that you stashed.
>>>
>>> From there you should be able to do a commit.
>>>
>>> Of course, if you're the only one committing to the repo, then it's
>>> unlikely that the remote repo is out of sync with your local copy.
>> 
>> Thanks.  I think the problem was that I obediently added the
>> description and license, and that caused the conflict with the local
>> repo.  I just deleted the GitHub repo and started over.  I figure I can
>> add the description and license later.
> 
> Damn.  I added a license and readme to GitHub, tried to pull the changes
> to my local repo, and it's still giving me exit status 128.  Do I have
> to do this rebase thing every time I make a change?  Why does every
> simple thing have to be so freaking complicated?

A rebase shouldn't be needed every time - how did you add the license/
readme to github?



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Is my life easier yet? [1643 days 4 hours and 3 minutes ago]

Wed, 6 Oct 2021 03:18:53 GMT

On 2021-10-05 10:19 PM (-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
> On 2021-10-04 7:01 PM (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
>> It sounds like you probably need to do a rebase.  I don't know how to do 
>> that in git-cola, but basically a pull just pulls the changes from the 
>> remote repository.  A rebase "is the process of moving or combining a 
>> sequence of commits to a new base commit. Rebasing is most useful and 
>> easily visualized in the context of a feature branching workflow." (from 
>> https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/rewriting-history/git-rebase)
>>
>> What I might be inclined to do (I work from the CLI) is:
>>
>>  git stash
>>  git pull --rebase
>>  git stash pop
>>
>> Stash puts your changes in a ... stash.  (I know, kinda useless self-
>> referential definition).  It sets them aside.  The pull --rebase does the 
>> rebase, basically making sure you have a clean copy of the upstream repo.  
>> The stash pop then re-applies the diffs that you stashed.
>>
>> From there you should be able to do a commit.
>>
>> Of course, if you're the only one committing to the repo, then it's 
>> unlikely that the remote repo is out of sync with your local copy.
> 
> Thanks.  I think the problem was that I obediently added the description
> and license, and that caused the conflict with the local repo.  I just
> deleted the GitHub repo and started over.  I figure I can add the
> description and license later.

Damn.  I added a license and readme to GitHub, tried to pull the changes
to my local repo, and it's still giving me exit status 128.  Do I have
to do this rebase thing every time I make a change?  Why does every
simple thing have to be so freaking complicated?

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Is my life easier yet? [1643 days 5 hours and 2 minutes ago]

Wed, 6 Oct 2021 02:19:54 GMT

On 2021-10-04 7:01 PM (-4), Jim Henderson wrote:
> It sounds like you probably need to do a rebase.  I don't know how to do 
> that in git-cola, but basically a pull just pulls the changes from the 
> remote repository.  A rebase "is the process of moving or combining a 
> sequence of commits to a new base commit. Rebasing is most useful and 
> easily visualized in the context of a feature branching workflow." (from 
> https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/rewriting-history/git-rebase)
> 
> What I might be inclined to do (I work from the CLI) is:
> 
>  git stash
>  git pull --rebase
>  git stash pop
> 
> Stash puts your changes in a ... stash.  (I know, kinda useless self-
> referential definition).  It sets them aside.  The pull --rebase does the 
> rebase, basically making sure you have a clean copy of the upstream repo.  
> The stash pop then re-applies the diffs that you stashed.
> 
> From there you should be able to do a commit.
> 
> Of course, if you're the only one committing to the repo, then it's 
> unlikely that the remote repo is out of sync with your local copy.

Thanks.  I think the problem was that I obediently added the description
and license, and that caused the conflict with the local repo.  I just
deleted the GitHub repo and started over.  I figure I can add the
description and license later.

I found this tutorial on YouTube.  I still have questions, but it's been
helpful.

  https://youtu.be/RGOj5yH7evk

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Is my life easier yet? [1643 days 5 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Wed, 6 Oct 2021 01:56:08 GMT

On 2021-10-02 8:10 PM (-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
> 
> When I connect to a new Wi-Fi, KDE opens up a wallet and asks for my
> credentials.  On my old system, all I did was supply a password, but now
> it's asking me to create a new one.  The last time I had to do this was
> in 2013; best I figure is some hidden data from my old system didn't get
> copied over.  But I don't remember what I did 8 years ago.
> 
> It asks me to choose between classic, blowfish (whatever that is) and
> GPG (whatever that is), for better protection.  I choose GPG, and am
> immediately told that my system has no keys suitable for encryption, and
> to please set up at least one encryption key.  I search the Web for how
> to set up a GPG encryption key, and end up thoroughly confused.  I
> remember, years ago, trying to learn PGP, and I never understood that
> either.

A month of this computer harassing me to set up a GPG encryption key,
and I find out that GPG is not installed!  (This would explain why I
could make no sense of the instructions I found online.)  Why is an OS
asking me to use software that isn't installed?

Not only am I on the verge of a hostile divorce from Windows (this dual
boot thing isn't working out), but I'm seriously considering ditching
openSUSE and buying a computer with Linux Mint pre-installed.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: I saw a very strange bug [1644 days 1 hour and 6 minutes ago]

Tue, 5 Oct 2021 06:15:27 GMT

Op 05/10/2021 om 00:13 schreef Samuel B.:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> Op 25-9-2021 om 02:42 schreef Samuel B.:
>>> William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>>>> On 9/23/21 7:58 PM, Samuel B. wrote:
>>>>> (...) Half spider, half wasp (?)
>>>>
>>>> Aliens! :-)
>>>
>>> Lol. Maybe!
>>>
>>> Oh, I failed to mention that it had antennas. And I didn't count the legs or get
>>> a good look at its eyes, but the wings were - as mentioned - tiny, but also
>>> slightly different sizes.
>>>
>> The antennas /and/ the wings exclude it from the spiders imo.
> 
> You would be correct, lol.
> 
> Sam
> 

[Note: If everything in life was as simple as that....] :-)


-- 
Thomas

[Jim Henderson] Re: Is my life easier yet? [1644 days 8 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Mon, 4 Oct 2021 23:01:09 GMT

On Mon, 04 Oct 2021 17:27:33 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> On 2021-10-02 8:10 PM (-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
>> [snip]
> 
> I figured out that you copy and paste the PAT into the password field
> when you push to GitHub.  And it's gotta be either a paste or a
> credentials manager, because I'm not going to type 40 characters from a
> piece of paper.
> 
> And this was where I learned that I know less about Git than I realized.
>  In fact, I'm beginning to suspect than a month and a half of trying to
> learn Git has been as effective as catching water in a sieve.
> 
> Following an online 3rd party tutorial (and it has to be 3rd party,
> because documentation sucks), I created a remote repo on GitHub, added a
> short description and a license, and gave the URL to Git-Cola.  But when
> I tried to push, I got this message:
> 
> ----------[BEGIN MESSAGE]----------
> "git push" returned exit status 1
> 
> Have you rebased/pulled lately?
> 
> Pushing to https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot To
> https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot
>  ! [rejected]        main -> main (non-fast-forward)
> error: failed to push some refs to
> 'https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot'
> hint: Updates were rejected because the tip of your current branch is
> behind hint: its remote counterpart. Integrate the remote changes (e.g.
> hint: 'git pull ...') before pushing again.
> hint: See the 'Note about fast-forwards' in 'git push --help' for
> details. -----------[END MESSAGE]-----------
> 
> So I tried git pull:
> 
> ----------[BEGIN MESSAGE]----------
> "git pull" returned exit status 128
> 
> POST git-upload-pack (294 bytes)
> From https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot
>  * branch            main       -> FETCH_HEAD = [up to date]      main  
>      -> origin/main
> fatal: refusing to merge unrelated histories -----------[END
> MESSAGE]-----------
> 
> Everything about that second message is telling me that over a month and
> a half I've learned NOTHING about how Git works.  And the 'Note about
> fast-forwards' in 'git push --help'?  It might as well have been written
> in Arabic for all I could understand.
> 
> I was about to post to a local Facebook tech group asking for
> local-project-to-GitHub tutorials or a tutorial service, but you all
> know how that turned out.

It sounds like you probably need to do a rebase.  I don't know how to do 
that in git-cola, but basically a pull just pulls the changes from the 
remote repository.  A rebase "is the process of moving or combining a 
sequence of commits to a new base commit. Rebasing is most useful and 
easily visualized in the context of a feature branching workflow." (from 
https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/rewriting-history/git-rebase)

What I might be inclined to do (I work from the CLI) is:

 git stash
 git pull --rebase
 git stash pop

Stash puts your changes in a ... stash.  (I know, kinda useless self-
referential definition).  It sets them aside.  The pull --rebase does the 
rebase, basically making sure you have a clean copy of the upstream repo.  
The stash pop then re-applies the diffs that you stashed.

From there you should be able to do a commit.

Of course, if you're the only one committing to the repo, then it's 
unlikely that the remote repo is out of sync with your local copy.

It's been a while since I did anything serious with git myself, and this 
is going from memory, so it's possible I've not got it 100% correct.

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Samuel B ] Re: I saw a very strange bug [1644 days 9 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Mon, 4 Oct 2021 22:15:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Op 25-9-2021 om 02:42 schreef Samuel B.:
> > William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> >> On 9/23/21 7:58 PM, Samuel B. wrote:
> >>> (...) Half spider, half wasp (?)
> >>
> >> Aliens! :-)
> >
> > Lol. Maybe!
> >
> > Oh, I failed to mention that it had antennas. And I didn't count the legs or get
> > a good look at its eyes, but the wings were - as mentioned - tiny, but also
> > slightly different sizes.
> >
> The antennas /and/ the wings exclude it from the spiders imo.

You would be correct, lol.

Sam

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Is my life easier yet? [1644 days 9 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Mon, 4 Oct 2021 21:36:45 GMT

On 2021-10-03 8:57 PM (-4), Kenneth wrote:
> 
> On the Wikipedia page "Comparison of Git GUIs", it lists 50+ apps there, or
> whatever they are. Perhaps there is another easier-to-use (and 'visual') tool
> than git-cola? It's workings sound like a nightmare to fathom, from your
> description.
No, I think the root of my problems is not understanding Git.  A user
interface makes it easier to use, but it can't make me understand what's
going on.

Just like using an automatic transmission doesn't help if you don't have
a roadmap to your destination.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Is my life easier yet? [1644 days 9 hours and 54 minutes ago]

Mon, 4 Oct 2021 21:27:33 GMT

On 2021-10-02 8:10 PM (-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
> [snip]

I figured out that you copy and paste the PAT into the password field
when you push to GitHub.  And it's gotta be either a paste or a
credentials manager, because I'm not going to type 40 characters from a
piece of paper.

And this was where I learned that I know less about Git than I realized.
 In fact, I'm beginning to suspect than a month and a half of trying to
learn Git has been as effective as catching water in a sieve.

Following an online 3rd party tutorial (and it has to be 3rd party,
because documentation sucks), I created a remote repo on GitHub, added a
short description and a license, and gave the URL to Git-Cola.  But when
I tried to push, I got this message:

----------[BEGIN MESSAGE]----------
"git push" returned exit status 1

Have you rebased/pulled lately?

Pushing to https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot
To https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot
 ! [rejected]        main -> main (non-fast-forward)
error: failed to push some refs to
'https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot'
hint: Updates were rejected because the tip of your current branch is behind
hint: its remote counterpart. Integrate the remote changes (e.g.
hint: 'git pull ...') before pushing again.
hint: See the 'Note about fast-forwards' in 'git push --help' for details.
-----------[END MESSAGE]-----------

So I tried git pull:

----------[BEGIN MESSAGE]----------
"git pull" returned exit status 128

POST git-upload-pack (294 bytes)
From https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-AndroidRobot
 * branch            main       -> FETCH_HEAD
 = [up to date]      main       -> origin/main
fatal: refusing to merge unrelated histories
-----------[END MESSAGE]-----------

Everything about that second message is telling me that over a month and
a half I've learned NOTHING about how Git works.  And the 'Note about
fast-forwards' in 'git push --help'?  It might as well have been written
in Arabic for all I could understand.

I was about to post to a local Facebook tech group asking for
local-project-to-GitHub tutorials or a tutorial service, but you all
know how that turned out.

[jr] Re: Is my life easier yet? [1644 days 23 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Mon, 4 Oct 2021 07:30:00 GMT

hi,
"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> ...
> I never got PGP either, and don't know anyone who uses it.

assuming you mean public key crypto in general, rather than "Pretty Good
Privacy" the product.  you do use "it", even if transparently, every time you
use 'apt' to install something for instance (packages are/should be "signed").

regards, jr.

[Kenneth] Re: Is my life easier yet? [1645 days 6 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Mon, 4 Oct 2021 01:00:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:

>
> I think I've seen enough tutorials to learn the basics of Git, and I've
> installed Git-Cola because I need an easy visual reference for what's
> going on.

Not that I know *anything* about this stuff, but...

On the Wikipedia page "Comparison of Git GUIs", it lists 50+ apps there, or
whatever they are. Perhaps there is another easier-to-use (and 'visual') tool
than git-cola? It's workings sound like a nightmare to fathom, from your
description.

I don't use any kind of 'credentials manager' -- whatever that is! If I even
understand it's use, I have all of my passwords on pieces of paper(!) instead,
in a single place on my desk, and just enter them when I have to (or memorize
them.) I simply don't trust putting that kind of info anywhere on my computer or
in the cloud. But the world's computer infrastructure is becoming more and more
invasive about this stuff-- I'm sure that *everything* about me is probably
already available somewhere, to a determined hacker. :-[

[Bald Eagle] Re: Is my life easier yet? [1645 days 12 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Sun, 3 Oct 2021 18:30:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:

> Is my life getting easier yet?

No.

And this is a perfect example of why complicated things get ditched, and why
complicated/complicating things should never be made mandatory.

I'm a fan of redundancy, having things on hand "just in case", and having the
option of nine different ways of accomplishing the same task.

I never got PGP either, and don't know anyone who uses it.


I applaud your efforts and determination.   Hopefully something, somewhere will
'click' and things will start going a lot more smoothly for you.  Fingers
crossed.

[Cousin Ricky] Is my life easier yet? [1646 days 7 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Sun, 3 Oct 2021 00:10:01 GMT

I have never been fluent with version control systems, but everybody is
saying it's the only way to go, with one website going so far as to
insult visitors who don't use one.  Here, the consensus is that it's the
easiest way to contribute to the POV-Ray project, so I decided to dive
in. I am becoming more befuddled by the day.

I think I've seen enough tutorials to learn the basics of Git, and I've
installed Git-Cola because I need an easy visual reference for what's
going on. I am forcing myself to have faith that I will get a feel for
Git as I continue to use it.

But now I've run into a second problem, which has dogged me since I got
my new computer, and is preventing me from pushing my modules to GitHub:
security.

When I connect to a new Wi-Fi, KDE opens up a wallet and asks for my
credentials.  On my old system, all I did was supply a password, but now
it's asking me to create a new one.  The last time I had to do this was
in 2013; best I figure is some hidden data from my old system didn't get
copied over.  But I don't remember what I did 8 years ago.

It asks me to choose between classic, blowfish (whatever that is) and
GPG (whatever that is), for better protection.  I choose GPG, and am
immediately told that my system has no keys suitable for encryption, and
to please set up at least one encryption key.  I search the Web for how
to set up a GPG encryption key, and end up thoroughly confused.  I
remember, years ago, trying to learn PGP, and I never understood that
either.

But I've been able to get by, by cancelling out and typing in passwords
when necessary--which turns out to be not often.  So it was when I tried
to push a local project to GitHub using Git-Cola.  I got exit status
128, with a message that password authentication was removed on August
13, 2021, and to use a personal access token (PAT) instead.

I followed the supplied GitHub link, which had, among other things, the
timeline for the policy change.  They announced it in July 2020, which
should be plenty of warning... except that I had no GitHub account back
then.  The timeline entry for "today" was that I would get an email.  So
I checked my email for messages from GitHub, but all I found were the
signup confirmation messages--dated August 13, the same day that they
discontinued the passwords!  (And my gym instructor is trying to
convince me that there is a god because of all the wonderful
coincidences in her life.)

I followed the link explaining how to set up a PAT, and ran into two
problems.  First was to give my token a descriptive name.  I don't even
know what's going on!  How am I supposed to describe it?  Then it says
to select the scopes, or permissions, to grant the token.  Now I'm
stuck.  Not only am I not sure what to check and what not to check, but
the one suggestion given (repo) is to access repositories from the
command line.  But I'm not using the command line, I'm using Git-Cola.

I cannot find any instructions on how to use a PAT with Git-Cola.  Its
user interface is bleakly sparse, and there is no help feature that I
can find.  Its online documentation is almost as sparse; it basically
tells the user what they already know.  Web searches on "git-cola
personal access token" are disappointingly unhelpful.

So, all you who have been using Git-Cola since August 13: how is it done?

Is my life getting easier yet?

Please don't ask me to use the command line. I cannot remember the CLI
options from one hour to the next.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: I saw a very strange bug [1653 days 22 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Sat, 25 Sep 2021 08:44:11 GMT

Op 25-9-2021 om 02:42 schreef Samuel B.:
> William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>> On 9/23/21 7:58 PM, Samuel B. wrote:
>>> (...) Half spider, half wasp (?)
>>
>> Aliens! :-)
> 
> Lol. Maybe!
> 
> Oh, I failed to mention that it had antennas. And I didn't count the legs or get
> a good look at its eyes, but the wings were - as mentioned - tiny, but also
> slightly different sizes.
>
The antennas /and/ the wings exclude it from the spiders imo.

>> No idea. Perhaps a deformity of some kind?
> 
> Yes, I think it was some sort of deformed wasp. The uneven wings, along with the
> long legs make me think so. Deformity is the only explanation that makes sense!
> > Sam
> 
> 


-- 
Thomas

[Samuel B ] Re: I saw a very strange bug [1654 days 6 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Sat, 25 Sep 2021 01:10:00 GMT

"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Sounds horrifying; I'm glad it's not in *my* house. I have enough spiders to
> contend with right now, inside and out. Must be the season for 'em. I *try* not
> to be freaked-out by their creepiness, but it isn't easy. So far, it has been
> "live and let live"...
>
> **shudder**

Haha! It wasn't in the house, it was drinking out of the cat's outdoor water
dish. I wasn't freaked out so much as mystified regarding its nature. (And I'm
still wondering...)

I also go by the ol' "live and let live" philosophy. Spiders especially, since
they tend to take care of chitinous pests. I guess that is why they're sometimes
referred to as spiderbros ;) The benign spiders get to stay. Every other spider
and creepy-crawly gets let outside, thanks to a plastic cylinder and card I keep
handy whenever something finds itself stuck in the house. Everything but
mosquitos. Those bloodsuckers tend to push their luck a bit. too. far. (But if
we find them around, it just means we've kept water stagnant somewhere and that
it needs to be either replaced/removed.)

Sam

[Samuel B ] Re: I saw a very strange bug [1654 days 6 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Sat, 25 Sep 2021 00:45:00 GMT

William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> On 9/23/21 7:58 PM, Samuel B. wrote:
> > (...) Half spider, half wasp (?)
>
> Aliens! :-)

Lol. Maybe!

Oh, I failed to mention that it had antennas. And I didn't count the legs or get
a good look at its eyes, but the wings were - as mentioned - tiny, but also
slightly different sizes.

> No idea. Perhaps a deformity of some kind?

Yes, I think it was some sort of deformed wasp. The uneven wings, along with the
long legs make me think so. Deformity is the only explanation that makes sense!

Sam

[Kenneth] Re: I saw a very strange bug [1654 days 7 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Sep 2021 23:50:00 GMT

Sounds horrifying; I'm glad it's not in *my* house. I have enough spiders to
contend with right now, inside and out. Must be the season for 'em. I *try* not
to be freaked-out by their creepiness, but it isn't easy. So far, it has been
"live and let live"...

**shudder**

[William F Pokorny] Re: I saw a very strange bug [1654 days 15 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Sep 2021 15:45:55 GMT

On 9/23/21 7:58 PM, Samuel B. wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> There have been many spider wasps around lately. Dark blue, twitchy, and always
> on the hunt for poor, unsuspecting arachnids in which they can lay their eggs.
> 
> But today I saw something a bit different... It looked kind of like a small,
> dark wolf spider. Between 5/8 inch to 2.25 cm in diameter, including legs. Its
> thorax was larger than its abdomen, and it was a dark blue color. And it had
> tiny wings. WTF? It had /wings/, yet it also had long legs like a spider. What
> tf did I see? I went to get my phone to take a shot, but by the time I came back
> out there was nothing there but a regular wolf-like spider.
> 
> I'm not the only one who saw it, so I'm not crazy this time, haha.
> 
> I suppose that it's possible - with my slowly failing eyesight - I saw a spider
> wasp in the process of securing another victim, but I don't think so. This thing
> looked like a singular entity. Half spider, half wasp.
> 
> I tried to search for such a thing, but did not turn up anything remotely
> resembling this beast.
> 
> Sam
> 

Aliens! :-)

No idea. Perhaps a deformity of some kind?

Bill P.

[Samuel B ] I saw a very strange bug [1655 days 7 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Sep 2021 00:00:00 GMT

Hi,

There have been many spider wasps around lately. Dark blue, twitchy, and always
on the hunt for poor, unsuspecting arachnids in which they can lay their eggs.

But today I saw something a bit different... It looked kind of like a small,
dark wolf spider. Between 5/8 inch to 2.25 cm in diameter, including legs. Its
thorax was larger than its abdomen, and it was a dark blue color. And it had
tiny wings. WTF? It had /wings/, yet it also had long legs like a spider. What
tf did I see? I went to get my phone to take a shot, but by the time I came back
out there was nothing there but a regular wolf-like spider.

I'm not the only one who saw it, so I'm not crazy this time, haha.

I suppose that it's possible - with my slowly failing eyesight - I saw a spider
wasp in the process of securing another victim, but I don't think so. This thing
looked like a singular entity. Half spider, half wasp.

I tried to search for such a thing, but did not turn up anything remotely
resembling this beast.

Sam

[Ton] Re: Hi [1664 days 8 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Sep 2021 23:15:00 GMT

It happens, I know.

Cheers
Ton.

[And] Re: Hi [1664 days 16 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Sep 2021 15:05:00 GMT

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>
> Hi And,
>
> Welcome back!
>
> I know how it goes. I tend to spend many months and years away. But then I get
> an idea for something or I start missing people, and I eventually come back
> around ;)
>
> Sam


I know.






William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> On 9/13/21 3:06 AM, And wrote:
> > I have been too long to appear here. Because I don't have any stuff to post
> > currently.
> > Um, hi
> >
> :-) Hey!

Hi

[And] Re: Hi [1664 days 16 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Sep 2021 14:40:00 GMT

"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "And" <49341109@ntnu.edu.tw> wrote:
> > I have been too long to appear here. Because I don't have any stuff to post
> > currently.
> > Um, hi
>
> Lately, I likewise don't post as much as I'd like to-- because I suddenly get
> interested in a particular POV-ray feature that I didn't know about before, then
> spend weeks secretly working out its uses and permutations with test after test!
> Currently it's the 'object pattern' and its potential uses in media... but don't
> tell anyone! :-O

I have not made use of POV-Ray since last year. But I still need using it to
output uv-map for mesh file(In fact I'm learning, I have tried 1 or 2 times but
very rusty).

[William F Pokorny] Re: Hi [1664 days 17 hours and 38 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Sep 2021 13:43:42 GMT

On 9/13/21 3:06 AM, And wrote:
> I have been too long to appear here. Because I don't have any stuff to post
> currently.
> Um, hi
> 
:-) Hey!

[Samuel B ] Re: Hi [1665 days 8 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Sep 2021 23:10:00 GMT

"And" <49341109@ntnu.edu.tw> wrote:
> I have been too long to appear here. Because I don't have any stuff to post
> currently.
> Um, hi

Hi And,

Welcome back!

I know how it goes. I tend to spend many months and years away. But then I get
an idea for something or I start missing people, and I eventually come back
around ;)

Sam

[Kenneth] Re: Hi [1665 days 16 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Sep 2021 14:55:00 GMT

"And" <49341109@ntnu.edu.tw> wrote:
> I have been too long to appear here. Because I don't have any stuff to post
> currently.
> Um, hi

Lately, I likewise don't post as much as I'd like to-- because I suddenly get
interested in a particular POV-ray feature that I didn't know about before, then
spend weeks secretly working out its uses and permutations with test after test!
Currently it's the 'object pattern' and its potential uses in media... but don't
tell anyone! :-O

[And] Hi [1666 days and 11 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Sep 2021 07:10:00 GMT

I have been too long to appear here. Because I don't have any stuff to post
currently.
Um, hi

[Thomas de Groot] Re: rgb stuff that will hurt your brain [1666 days and 42 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Sep 2021 06:39:30 GMT

Op 12/09/2021 om 20:00 schreef Bald Eagle:
> More color perception stuff that will mess with your head:
> 
> 
>
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-9947343/Optical-illusion-makes-greyscale-picture-look-like-colours.html
> 
> I smell a macro / pigment pattern thing brewing in the future...
> 

Hmmm.... ;-)

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: Granite_21 - the final macro [1666 days and 55 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Sep 2021 06:26:25 GMT

Op 12/09/2021 om 22:18 schreef Samuel B.:
> Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
>> On 2021-09-11 6:09 PM (-4), Samuel B. wrote:
>>>
>>> And there's an area near a river which I suspect might be harboring corundum.
(...)
>>
>> I was in a jewelry store a few years ago, and saw gems labeled "red
>> sapphire."  I'm no geologist, so I asked the sales clerk what's the
>> difference between red sapphire and ruby.  She responded only that ruby
>> and sapphire are two different gems.  Probing further, I learned that
>> she didn't realize that ruby and sapphire are both forms of the same
>> mineral.
>>
>> So I'm wondering, is it common for retail jewelers not to know the
>> mineralogy behind the stones they are selling?  Or did she know just
>> enough to sell them?
> 

Sam rightly answered this, so just a small additional comment.

I had not really realised it before, but I ran against a similar problem 
when researching for the Granite_21 macro. "commercial" granite names 
can be pointing to something totally different from the "scientific" 
point of view. "marble" is another of those confusing name tags in 
stores it seems.

Humans are great at naming things, and it was often part of (ancient) 
religious practice; knowing the name of something or somebody gave you 
power over it or him/her as it were. The result is more often than not, 
that a bewildering number of names tend to grow like weed.

The scientific community is not immune to this either. Before things 
settle down after a new discovery, the same or similar things are know 
by different names. The history of human palaeontology is a good example.

-- 
Thomas

[Samuel B ] Re: Granite_21 - the final macro [1666 days 11 hours and 1 minute ago]

Sun, 12 Sep 2021 20:20:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> On 2021-09-11 6:09 PM (-4), Samuel B. wrote:
> >
> > And there's an area near a river which I suspect might be harboring corundum.
(...)
>
> I was in a jewelry store a few years ago, and saw gems labeled "red
> sapphire."  I'm no geologist, so I asked the sales clerk what's the
> difference between red sapphire and ruby.  She responded only that ruby
> and sapphire are two different gems.  Probing further, I learned that
> she didn't realize that ruby and sapphire are both forms of the same
> mineral.
>
> So I'm wondering, is it common for retail jewelers not to know the
> mineralogy behind the stones they are selling?  Or did she know just
> enough to sell them?

It does seem like she was confused, since ruby and sapphires are indeed both
corundum (aluminum oxide). The main difference between ruby and sapphires, iirc,
is that rubies are red and sapphires can come in many colors. It's possible that
that particular hue of red you saw in the store was not considered a ruby,
similar to how emeralds are just one specific color of beryl, but there can be
other green beryls that are not considered emeralds.

I've never been to any jewelers, but like any other business there are probably
sales clerks working there to just make a wage, so they might not have much
in-depth knowledge regarding their job. (Any there are probably many others who
do know more but are never promoted for whatever reason).

> (I once ran across the same problem when I attempted to buy a computer
> from a locally-owned shop, instead of a big box.  The proprietor most
> certainly knew more about computers than your average big box geek, but
> his sales clerk knew nothing beyond sales lit talking points.)

Fortunately for us we know what to look for. Unfortunately for us, we are often
led to buying parts online that may or may not be up to snuff. Such was the case
with my current rig... it tends to freeze the system when I'm playing certain
resource-intensive games :/

Sam

[Bald Eagle] Re: rgb stuff that will hurt your brain [1666 days 13 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Sun, 12 Sep 2021 18:05:00 GMT

More color perception stuff that will mess with your head:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-9947343/Optical-illusion-makes-greyscale-picture-look-like-colours.html

I smell a macro / pigment pattern thing brewing in the future...

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Granite_21 - the final macro [1666 days 14 hours and 48 minutes ago]

Sun, 12 Sep 2021 16:32:57 GMT

On 2021-09-11 6:09 PM (-4), Samuel B. wrote:
> 
> And there's an area near a river which I suspect might be harboring corundum. In
> that place you can find marble outcrops above an area with granite pegmatite (I
> might have found a green beryl there as a kid but it's been lost). Since I
> figured corundum is sometimes found in marble, and considering the prevalence of
> aluminum in the area (micas, soap stone, etc.), I thought that maybe rubies and
> whatnot could be possible as well.

I was in a jewelry store a few years ago, and saw gems labeled "red
sapphire."  I'm no geologist, so I asked the sales clerk what's the
difference between red sapphire and ruby.  She responded only that ruby
and sapphire are two different gems.  Probing further, I learned that
she didn't realize that ruby and sapphire are both forms of the same
mineral.

So I'm wondering, is it common for retail jewelers not to know the
mineralogy behind the stones they are selling?  Or did she know just
enough to sell them?

(I once ran across the same problem when I attempted to buy a computer
from a locally-owned shop, instead of a big box.  The proprietor most
certainly knew more about computers than your average big box geek, but
his sales clerk knew nothing beyond sales lit talking points.)

[Cousin Ricky] Re: rgb stuff that will hurt your brain [1667 days 7 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Sun, 12 Sep 2021 00:15:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh4aWZRtTwU

Random observation: the Cleveland Browns (American football) wear orange
uniforms.

[Samuel B ] Re: Happy (?) 4th anniversary [1667 days 8 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Sat, 11 Sep 2021 23:05:00 GMT

Dick Balaska <dic### [at] buckosoftcom> wrote:
> On 9/8/2021 5:33 PM, Samuel B. wrote:
>
> >
> > Even in California I can't recall ever having lost power for months at a time.
> > At most we've only been out for over a week due to the snow knocking down power
> > lines. (...)
>
> After Sandy, we were 17 days without power, 4 days until I could leave
> the neighborhood.
> I thought I was clever being one of a few with a whole house generator
> (now everybody has them).  Then I realized I was spending $50/day in
> gasoline; or $1500/month for electricity.

How were you locked in?

There was an incident close by a couple winters ago: a person was stuck inside
his home because of all the snow, but nobody knew. He was running out of
supplies. The power was out, so there was no possible way he could call for
help. (Phones don't often work like they used to... land lines are becoming
extinct.) Anyway this person was a single older gentleman, had no phone or
internet service, and as a result was truly at the mercy of the elements. (We
were nearby and didn't even know!) It finally took the man seeing the snow plow
drivers outside and flagging them down, and they almost didn't notice the him
then. He must have been there for days, maybe even a week. ':/

Back to your comment: yeah generators can be expensive. Especially when gas is
not cheap. Still, it might be worth running them conservatively to avoid
catastrophe...

Sam

[Samuel B ] Re: Happy (?) 4th anniversary [1667 days 8 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Sat, 11 Sep 2021 22:50:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> (...) ; but after he gave our governor that field promotion, I wondered if
> "not my president" was accurate for me after all.

As far as I'm concerned, all US presidents are just faces. Nothing major changes
under different administrations, except for maybe things gradually getting
worse. Sure, the people get a bone thrown their way occasionally and we still
have certain rights and benefits... but the tiny policy changes only seem like
moves to placate the populace while the higher-ups continue to do what they've
always done behind the scenes (e.g. make war and favor corporations over the
people).

> The electricity is stable for now.  But this will happen again.  It
> always does.

Glad to hear things are back to normal, more or less. Here's to hoping it stays
stable.

> We got a generator after the storms, but due to our endemic power
> problems, it got run into the ground.  We are in the process of
> installing a new generator.  More specifically, my brother is
> supervising installation, which is to say it will take at least 10 times
> longer than estimated.

Haha, well at least it's getting done, right? :D

Personally, I have no practical electrical knowledge. Fortunately for my family,
though, my brother recently set up a generator that was gifted to us. This will
be the first winter we've had one. With any luck we won't have to burn candles
this year.

> My car can recharge the phone.

What's a car anyway, but but a portable gennie? ;)

Sam

[Dick Balaska] Re: Happy (?) 4th anniversary [1667 days 9 hours and 3 minutes ago]

Sat, 11 Sep 2021 22:18:22 GMT

On 9/8/2021 5:33 PM, Samuel B. wrote:

> 
> Even in California I can't recall ever having lost power for months at a time.
> At most we've only been out for over a week due to the snow knocking down power
> lines. (It's not all sunshine and beaches in the Golden State... I live at a
> high elevation where, when it snows, it tends to know a /lot/. And we usually
> have to shovel it out by hand :S)

After Sandy, we were 17 days without power, 4 days until I could leave 
the neighborhood.
I thought I was clever being one of a few with a whole house generator 
(now everybody has them).  Then I realized I was spending $50/day in 
gasoline; or $1500/month for electricity.

-- 
dik
Rendered 50,081,587,200 of 50,081,587,200 pixels (100%)

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Happy (?) 4th anniversary [1667 days 14 hours and 28 minutes ago]

Sat, 11 Sep 2021 16:53:43 GMT

On 2021-09-08 5:33 PM (-4), Samuel B. wrote:
> "Cousin Ricky" <rickysttATyahooDOTcom> wrote:
>> Four years ago today, Hurricane Irma slammed into the Virgin Islands, knocking
>> out electricity for several months. Today, the power utility is celebrating the
>> occasion with multiple blackouts. Four blackouts so far today. And it's still
>> morning.
> 
> I think I remember that... Puerto Rico was out of power for a long time. And one
> of our (perhaps more embarrassing) presidents threw a roll of paper towels at a
> reporter, or somebody.

At least he was able to be educated that Puerto Rico is ruled by the
USA.  He thought the USVI had its own president!  After Assface was
elected, many Americans said, "Not my president!"  I objected to saying
this on the grounds that it is better to accept reality, however
unpleasant; but after he gave our governor that field promotion, I
wondered if "not my president" was accurate for me after all.

> Hopefully you won't be stuck without power for too long. Do you have a
> generator? Solar recharging units for any mobile devices, etc.?

The electricity is stable for now.  But this will happen again.  It
always does.

We got a generator after the storms, but due to our endemic power
problems, it got run into the ground.  We are in the process of
installing a new generator.  More specifically, my brother is
supervising installation, which is to say it will take at least 10 times
longer than estimated.

My car can recharge the phone.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1668 days 3 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Sat, 11 Sep 2021 03:26:44 GMT

On 2021-08-20-2021 5:31 AM, Mr wrote:
> 
> Nice to see what people use. I had picked git Cola so far. because of one (LX)QT
> based linux Machine

Git-Cola is in my repositories, so I'll take a look at that, when (if?)
I can get my new computer stabilized.

[Jim Henderson] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1669 days 5 hours and 23 minutes ago]

Fri, 10 Sep 2021 01:58:03 GMT

On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 23:38:16 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>>
>> My favorite tool of choice is Atlassian Sourcetree (from the folks
>> behind BitBucket, an alternative to GitHub), which does seem to support
>> both submodules and subtrees (you can add a new submodule or subtree
>> from the GUI).
> 
> Do they have a version for GNU/Linux?  I can't find one on their
> website.

Sadly, they do not.



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[acasta] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1669 days 22 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Thu, 9 Sep 2021 08:35:00 GMT

"Cousin Ricky" <rickysttATyahooDOTcom> wrote:
>
> Do they have a version for GNU/Linux?  I can't find one on their website.

They don't, the only supported systems are Windows and Mac.
You might have a look at Git Extensions, it should run on GNU/Linux with mono:
https://gitextensions.github.io/

It also has a nice interface (even if the SourceTree one is better).
I am using it on Windows, I have abandoned SourceTree as it used to become
extremely slow after some upgrade cycles, and Git Extensions functionality is
more than enough for my use.

Submodules are supported; subtrees, however, are not.

By the way, I'm back here after very very long time and it's very nice to see
POV-Ray progress and the new beta!
Thank you all for the efforts put in this project!

[Cousin Ricky] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1670 days 3 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Thu, 9 Sep 2021 03:40:00 GMT

clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>
> My favorite tool of choice is Atlassian Sourcetree (from the folks
> behind BitBucket, an alternative to GitHub), which does seem to support
> both submodules and subtrees (you can add a new submodule or subtree
> from the GUI).

Do they have a version for GNU/Linux?  I can't find one on their website.

[Samuel B ] Re: Happy (?) 4th anniversary [1670 days 9 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Wed, 8 Sep 2021 21:35:00 GMT

"Cousin Ricky" <rickysttATyahooDOTcom> wrote:
> Four years ago today, Hurricane Irma slammed into the Virgin Islands, knocking
> out electricity for several months. Today, the power utility is celebrating the
> occasion with multiple blackouts. Four blackouts so far today. And it's still
> morning.

I think I remember that... Puerto Rico was out of power for a long time. And one
of our (perhaps more embarrassing) presidents threw a roll of paper towels at a
reporter, or somebody.

Even in California I can't recall ever having lost power for months at a time.
At most we've only been out for over a week due to the snow knocking down power
lines. (It's not all sunshine and beaches in the Golden State... I live at a
high elevation where, when it snows, it tends to know a /lot/. And we usually
have to shovel it out by hand :S)

Hopefully you won't be stuck without power for too long. Do you have a
generator? Solar recharging units for any mobile devices, etc.?

Sam

[Cousin Ricky] Happy (?) 4th anniversary [1672 days 15 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Sep 2021 15:40:00 GMT

Four years ago today, Hurricane Irma slammed into the Virgin Islands, knocking
out electricity for several months. Today, the power utility is celebrating the
occasion with multiple blackouts. Four blackouts so far today. And it's still
morning.

[Jim Henderson] Re: GPL to be tested [1678 days 15 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Tue, 31 Aug 2021 15:36:46 GMT

On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 13:15:09 -0400, Dick Balaska wrote:

> On 7/23/2021 3:35 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 21:14:43 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>> 
>>> Stockfish is suing Chessbase for using and modifying Stockfish's chess
>>> engine in violation of the GPL license.
>>>
>>> https://wpguynews.com/stockfish-contributors-sue-chessbase-for-gpl-
>> violations/
>> 
>> Not the first time, not likely the last.
>> 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_license_litigation
> 
> I didn't realize SCOTUS had overturned Oracle v. Google re: copyrighting
> Java APIs.

Yeah.

And SCO v. IBM had an update *yesterday*.  Looks like there's a $14.5m 
settlement that's about to be approved.



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Dick Balaska] Re: GPL to be tested [1679 days 14 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Mon, 30 Aug 2021 17:15:11 GMT

On 7/23/2021 3:35 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 21:14:43 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> 
>> Stockfish is suing Chessbase for using and modifying Stockfish's chess
>> engine in violation of the GPL license.
>>
>> https://wpguynews.com/stockfish-contributors-sue-chessbase-for-gpl-
> violations/
> 
> Not the first time, not likely the last.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_license_litigation

I didn't realize SCOTUS had overturned Oracle v. Google re: copyrighting 
Java APIs.


-- 
dik
Rendered 50,081,587,200 of 50,081,587,200 pixels (100%)

[jr] Re: Neil deGrasse loses it over color temperatures [1684 days 18 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Wed, 25 Aug 2021 12:35:00 GMT

hi,

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> https://youtu.be/p7BOn6KoikU

(_damn_ photographers!!)

:-)


regards, jr.

[Cousin Ricky] Neil deGrasse loses it over color temperatures [1685 days 2 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Wed, 25 Aug 2021 04:50:12 GMT

https://youtu.be/p7BOn6KoikU

[Jim Henderson] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1686 days 14 hours and 54 minutes ago]

Mon, 23 Aug 2021 16:27:47 GMT

On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 12:41:10 +1000, Chris Cason wrote:

> On 20/08/2021 11:45, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> (But yes, Microsoft does now own Github)
> 
> Which is a good thing, in a way. While I'm not a great fan of Microsoft,
> they do seem to be keeping their fingers out of interfering with github,
> which makes perfect sense when you think of it.

Yeah, they do seem to have done that.  I've also never been a big fan of 
Microsoft (though I now live in the Seattle area, and I know a lot of 
people who used to work there, and a few, I think, who still do).  The 
company's changed a lot since Ballmer left.  He was a big part of the 
last vestiges of Gates' time there.

> Some of us will remember the time that SourceForge was the place for
> open-source projects to host public repositories, and will also know
> what happened when SF got sold to someone who didn't really care about
> software but just wanted to make a quick buck regardless of the damage
> done.
>
> [...]
>
> See
> https://www.howtogeek.com/218764/warning-don%E2%80%99t-download-
software-from-sourceforge-if-you-can-help-it/
> if you're interested in more background on what happened to SF.

Oh, yes, I had forgotten about that.  Before SourceForge, it was 
freshmeat.net, but that was more an aggregator than a host for the 
software, as I recall.

> Now someone may wonder how this relates to a discussion about GitHub and
> its ownership, and my answer is that it relates a *lot*. GitHub isn't
> unique; it's not created or run by the makers of Git. it's just a
> open-source software hosting site - like SourceForge is/was.
> 
> Microsoft bought it because they saw it as a good investment as it had
> become a popular destination for OSS projects and their own OSS host
> (CodePlex) wasn't doing nearly as well (and in fact they since shut it
> down).
> 
> GitHub (and sites like it) lives and breathes on its *reputation*. While
> it has some neat features (like build automation) the basic technology
> (Git) is portable and as such there's not a lot preventing a project
> just moving somewhere else. Microsoft are well aware of that fact and
> would have to be insane to do anything that would jeopardize their $7bn
> investment in GitHub as almost all of that value is tied up in 'good
> will'.
> 
> Just as importantly they're *also* so cashed up they they are unlikely
> to ever say "we need a few extra dollars, let's sell GitHub" - meaning
> GH is unlikely to ever end up in the hands of anyone who wants to make a
> quick buck regardless of the damage done to the reputation of the site
> (which is what happened to SourceForge).

One friend who used to work at Microsoft described them years ago as 
"circling the drain - but they have a lot of money, so it's going to take 
a long time for them to disappear" (words to that effect).  But I think 
Nadela has embraced open source a lot more (Microsoft has historically 
contributed a fair amount to the Linux Kernel, actually).  Back in the 
day when Novell bought Ximian (who created the open-source Mono project - 
an OSS implementation of .NET), there was a lot of concern about 
Microsoft suing Novell over intellectual property around .NET (I was 
there - worked for Novell for about 8 years, starting right before they 
acquired SUSE in 2003, and leaving when Attachmate bought them in 2011).  
Now Miguel de Icaza is on the board of the .NET foundation, and Nat 
Friedman is the CEO of Github (so he works for Microsoft).

Jim

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[jr] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1688 days 22 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Sat, 21 Aug 2021 08:55:00 GMT

hi,


Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> On 2021-08-18 3:06 AM (-4), jr wrote:
> >
> > not sure if this describes you(r situation), from the fossil docs: "ii. Single
> > developer with multiple subprojects"
> >
> > {...}
>
> That doesn't tell me much, nor does it seem intended to sell Fossil over
> Git.

sell?  no.  as the page says, any scm is better than none, and you get enough
overview to decide whether it's worth your while to find out more.

btw, there _is_ a page detailing how move data between those s/wares:
<https://www.fossil-scm.org/home/doc/trunk/www/inout.wiki>


> It should be evident that I have no feel whatsoever for what makes a
> good or a bad SCM/VCS service (other than whether they push junkware on
> your users).

no "good or bad".  just suits yr way of working, or does not.


>  But I've already made an announcement in p.o-c, so you
> might say that I am "committed" to GitHub.  And given my historical
> difficulties trying to grok such systems, I feel safer with what others
> are doing.

and I think that a pretty good reason, knowing you can find 'git' users here, in
case of .. difficulty.


regards, jr.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1689 days 7 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Fri, 20 Aug 2021 23:52:32 GMT

On 2021-08-18 3:06 AM (-4), jr wrote:
> 
> not sure if this describes you(r situation), from the fossil docs: "ii. Single
> developer with multiple subprojects"
> 
> <https://www.fossil-scm.org/home/doc/trunk/www/whyusefossil.wiki>

That doesn't tell me much, nor does it seem intended to sell Fossil over
Git.

It should be evident that I have no feel whatsoever for what makes a
good or a bad SCM/VCS service (other than whether they push junkware on
your users).  But I've already made an announcement in p.o-c, so you
might say that I am "committed" to GitHub.  And given my historical
difficulties trying to grok such systems, I feel safer with what others
are doing.

[Bald Eagle] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1689 days 20 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Fri, 20 Aug 2021 11:10:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> while I do wear glasses, could not find rose-tinted ones to fit..  :-)

.....

(anyone looking at the world with
> open eyes must appreciate that industrial-scale mono-cultures, whether
> agri-sector or social, tend to damage the very (eco)systems which they exploit
> -- for "stakeholder"s advantage, only)

And at that juncture, one should look for historical trends, commonalities,
patterns, and an abundance of "unrelated" "coincidences".

I have education, experience, and imagination that is increasingly guided whilst
taking the Long View by "Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it
tries to silence good".

Take a look at Big Tech and what they do and how they got the power to do it.

Now extrapolate.

[Mr] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1689 days 21 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Fri, 20 Aug 2021 09:35:00 GMT

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Aug 2021 10:44:04 +0200, clipka wrote:
>
> > My favorite tool of choice is Atlassian Sourcetree (from the folks
> > behind BitBucket, an alternative to GitHub), which does seem to support
> > both submodules and subtrees (you can add a new submodule or subtree
> > from the GUI).
>
> I'd second that.  Sourcetree is amazing for those who don't like CLI, and
> for even those who do, it is very useful.
>
>
>
> --
> "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
> besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Nice to see what people use. I had picked git Cola so far. because of one (LX)QT
based linux Machine

[jr] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1689 days 22 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Fri, 20 Aug 2021 09:00:00 GMT

hi,

Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
> On 20/08/2021 11:45, Jim Henderson wrote:
> > (But yes, Microsoft does now own Github)
>
> Which is a good thing, in a way. While I'm not a great fan of Microsoft,
> they do seem to be keeping their fingers out of interfering with github,
> which makes perfect sense when you think of it.
> ...
> Microsoft bought it because they saw it as a good investment as it had
> become a popular destination for OSS projects and their own OSS host
> (CodePlex) wasn't doing nearly as well (and in fact they since shut it
> down).
>
> GitHub (and sites like it) lives and breathes on its *reputation*. While
> it has some neat features (like build automation) the basic technology
> (Git) is portable and as such there's not a lot preventing a project
> just moving somewhere else. Microsoft are well aware of that fact and
> would have to be insane to do anything that would jeopardize their $7bn
> investment in GitHub as almost all of that value is tied up in 'good will'.

while I do wear glasses, could not find rose-tinted ones to fit..  :-)

<https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/29/microsofts-github-has-become-magnet-for-thorny-issues-like-riaa.html>

if Microsoft had wanted to be "benign", or even simply "straight", they could
have, for instance, endowed a foundation set up for the purpose, or paid cash.
instead (so I read) the deal was done in shares, making GitHub now a
"stakeholder" interested in Microsoft's future.

and what about <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GitHub_Copilot>?  will not,
particularly for younger, new users (<30 yrs), a "recommended", quick,
menu-selected "solution" to some bug/coding problem lead, in the end, to greater
homogeneity, less individual "expression"?  (anyone looking at the world with
open eyes must appreciate that industrial-scale mono-cultures, whether
agri-sector or social, tend to damage the very (eco)systems which they exploit
-- for "stakeholder"s advantage, only)

two cents and all that.


regards, jr.

[clipka] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1689 days 22 hours and 54 minutes ago]

Fri, 20 Aug 2021 08:27:54 GMT

Am 20.08.2021 um 04:41 schrieb Chris Cason:

> GitHub (and sites like it) lives and breathes on its *reputation*. While 
> it has some neat features (like build automation) the basic technology 
> (Git) is portable and as such there's not a lot preventing a project 
> just moving somewhere else. Microsoft are well aware of that fact and 
> would have to be insane to do anything that would jeopardize their $7bn 
> investment in GitHub as almost all of that value is tied up in 'good will'.

As a matter of fact, Microsoft would jeopardize even more than their 
$7bn infestment: GitHub is their test. They are being watched very 
closely by the OSS community. If they'd screw this up, they'd burn not 
only the reputation of GitHub, but also the reputation of everything 
else that's Microsoft, as far as the OSS community goes.

They had been the bad guys in the past, and have been making huge 
efforts to get out of that corner and build a bit of trust with the OSS 
community. Any slip-up with GitHub, and all that hard work would be lost 
in an instant.

[Chris Cason] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1690 days 4 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Fri, 20 Aug 2021 02:42:14 GMT

On 20/08/2021 11:45, Jim Henderson wrote:
> (But yes, Microsoft does now own Github)

Which is a good thing, in a way. While I'm not a great fan of Microsoft, 
they do seem to be keeping their fingers out of interfering with github, 
which makes perfect sense when you think of it.

Some of us will remember the time that SourceForge was the place for 
open-source projects to host public repositories, and will also know 
what happened when SF got sold to someone who didn't really care about 
software but just wanted to make a quick buck regardless of the damage done.

They started used techniques such as dark design patterns to trick 
people who just wanted to download the latest version of, say, GIMP to 
instead download something else entirely (I know of a few people who got 
trapped by this and ended up with PUP's on their systems). They even 
went as far as wrapping some projects legitimate installer inside their 
*own* installer which would install junkware before running the 'real' 
installer.

These tactics quickly *nuked* sourceforge's reputation and developers 
abandoned the site in droves. It has never recovered from this (and 
never will, even though it's under new ownership).

See 
https://www.howtogeek.com/218764/warning-don%E2%80%99t-download-software-from-sourceforge-if-you-can-help-it/

if you're interested in more background on what happened to SF.

Now someone may wonder how this relates to a discussion about GitHub and 
its ownership, and my answer is that it relates a *lot*. GitHub isn't 
unique; it's not created or run by the makers of Git. it's just a 
open-source software hosting site - like SourceForge is/was.

Microsoft bought it because they saw it as a good investment as it had 
become a popular destination for OSS projects and their own OSS host 
(CodePlex) wasn't doing nearly as well (and in fact they since shut it 
down).

GitHub (and sites like it) lives and breathes on its *reputation*. While 
it has some neat features (like build automation) the basic technology 
(Git) is portable and as such there's not a lot preventing a project 
just moving somewhere else. Microsoft are well aware of that fact and 
would have to be insane to do anything that would jeopardize their $7bn 
investment in GitHub as almost all of that value is tied up in 'good will'.

Just as importantly they're *also* so cashed up they they are unlikely 
to ever say "we need a few extra dollars, let's sell GitHub" - meaning 
GH is unlikely to ever end up in the hands of anyone who wants to make a 
quick buck regardless of the damage done to the reputation of the site 
(which is what happened to SourceForge).

-- Chris

[Chris Cason] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1690 days 5 hours and 18 minutes ago]

Fri, 20 Aug 2021 02:03:08 GMT

On 20/08/2021 11:43, Jim Henderson wrote:
> I'd second that.  Sourcetree is amazing for those who don't like CLI, and
> for even those who do, it is very useful.

Thirded. I've used sourcetree in my day job and it's a good tool. Don't 
use it anymore as we shifted to SmartGit, but they are roughly equivalent.

The only time I don't use a GUI for git is for basic change management 
on the povray server. For that the CLI is fine.

While a UI isn't a requirement for using git, having one makes managing 
more complex projects way easier.

-- Chris

[Jim Henderson] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1690 days 5 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Fri, 20 Aug 2021 01:45:50 GMT

On Thu, 19 Aug 2021 21:45:27 -0400, Jim Henderson wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 19:21:26 -0400, Bald Eagle wrote:
> 
>> Didn't Microsoft / Bill "Gates of Hell" gobble that up?
> 
> Gates hasn't been at Microsoft for years.

(But yes, Microsoft does now own Github)



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Jim Henderson] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1690 days 5 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Fri, 20 Aug 2021 01:45:27 GMT

On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 19:21:26 -0400, Bald Eagle wrote:

> Didn't Microsoft / Bill "Gates of Hell" gobble that up?

Gates hasn't been at Microsoft for years.



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Jim Henderson] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1690 days 5 hours and 38 minutes ago]

Fri, 20 Aug 2021 01:43:44 GMT

On Wed, 18 Aug 2021 10:44:04 +0200, clipka wrote:

> My favorite tool of choice is Atlassian Sourcetree (from the folks
> behind BitBucket, an alternative to GitHub), which does seem to support
> both submodules and subtrees (you can add a new submodule or subtree
> from the GUI).

I'd second that.  Sourcetree is amazing for those who don't like CLI, and 
for even those who do, it is very useful.



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[clipka] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1691 days 6 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Thu, 19 Aug 2021 00:44:28 GMT

Am 18.08.2021 um 18:58 schrieb Cousin Ricky:
> On 2021-08-18 4:44 AM (-4), clipka wrote:
>>
>> My favorite tool of choice is Atlassian Sourcetree (from the folks
>> behind BitBucket, an alternative to GitHub), which does seem to support
>> both submodules and subtrees (you can add a new submodule or subtree
>> from the GUI).
> 
> The Web page that recommended GitHub Organizations pointed this out, but
> also said that BitBucket's UI was more complicated another Git UI (which
> I can't recall at the moment).

One thing you really should try to get off your mind is the idea that 
Git repository hosting service == Git desktop user interface.

Those really are two _entirely_ different things.

You can use Atlassian's desktop user interface (Sourcetree) with a 
repository hosted on GitHub. Just like you can use GitHub Inc.'s desktop 
user interface (called GitHub Desktop) with a repository hosted on 
BitBucket (or at least you should be; I haven't actually tested it).

I never liked the web interface of Atlassian's "BitBucket" Git/Mercurial 
reposiory hosting service.

I do like Atlassian's "Sourcetree" Git/Mercurial desktop UI.

I do like the web interface of GitHub Inc.'s "GitHub" repository hosting 
service (even though I agree that there's still quite some room for 
improvement).

I don't like GitHub Inc.'s "GitHub Desktop" desktop UI at all.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1691 days 14 hours and 23 minutes ago]

Wed, 18 Aug 2021 16:58:07 GMT

On 2021-08-18 4:44 AM (-4), clipka wrote:
> 
> My favorite tool of choice is Atlassian Sourcetree (from the folks
> behind BitBucket, an alternative to GitHub), which does seem to support
> both submodules and subtrees (you can add a new submodule or subtree
> from the GUI).

The Web page that recommended GitHub Organizations pointed this out, but
also said that BitBucket's UI was more complicated another Git UI (which
I can't recall at the moment).

[Cousin Ricky] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1691 days 14 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Wed, 18 Aug 2021 16:47:44 GMT

On 2021-08-18 4:44 AM (-4), clipka wrote:
> Am 18.08.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Cousin Ricky:
> 
>> [...]Â  I do not need or want offline
>> Git capabilities;
> 
> While the GitHub web interface alone may be sufficient for an occasional
> small contribution here and there (by now; even that hadn't always been
> the case) in which only a single file is changed; but for anything
> beyond that, I'd really recommend using a proper Git UI on your machine
> (which may just be the `git` command-line interface, or a 3rd party
> GUI), which (by Git's design) invariably also means a having local
> repository.

Would I have to uproot my existing local directory tree?

>> I already have my projects organized locally in
>> folders, and to bring in an SCM would be more effort that it's worth at
>> this time.
> 
> An SCM is exactly what Git is, so I'm rather puzzled?!

I mean I don't need an SCM on my local machine.  I vaguely recall having
to use one on the job many years ago, and I seem to have spent as much
time wrestling with the SCM as I did writing code.  They confuse the
hell out of me, which would seem to defeat their own purpose.

>> I want organization on GitHub, and even if I did reorganize
>> my local POV-Ray directory tree to use Git, I see no indication that
>> this organization could be uploaded intact.
> 
> If you "upload" the stuff (or "commit" and "push", as the technical
> terms would be) using some arbitrary Git interface that supports
> submodules/subtrees, that hierarchy _will_ end up intact on the GitHub
> repo.
> 
> Whether that hierarchy is also exposed to the user is another matter;
> but I recommend that you see for yourself.

The user's view is precisely what I'm concerned about.

> Here's an example of how GitHub themselves use _submodules_ in one of
> their own projects, `linguist`, a tool they use to detect the
> programming language of files in a repository; each folder in its
> `vendor/grammars` directory is actually a submodule:
> 
> https://github.com/github/linguist/tree/master/vendor/grammars

That looks like what I'm looking for.  How do I actually do it?  Is
there a gentle introduction somewhere to how it's done, because GitHub
has only the barest tutorial on how to use its UI, and everything else I
can find, whether in GitHub's docs, GitHub's blog, or third party
instructions, just dumps me into the deep end of the pool.  I seem to
lack an overall conceptual framework of what's going on.

[clipka] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1691 days 22 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Wed, 18 Aug 2021 08:44:04 GMT

Am 18.08.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Cousin Ricky:

> The problem is that GitHub does not appear to support any of these
> capabilities.  All searches on GitHub wrappers yield only repositories
> of wrappers tailored for specific software, having nothing to do with
> Git.  Searches on submodules yields lots of user discussion about Git
> commands, but no documentation from GitHub, and no indication that
> submodules are even applicable to GitHub.  I do not need or want offline
> Git capabilities;

While the GitHub web interface alone may be sufficient for an occasional 
small contribution here and there (by now; even that hadn't always been 
the case) in which only a single file is changed; but for anything 
beyond that, I'd really recommend using a proper Git UI on your machine 
(which may just be the `git` command-line interface, or a 3rd party 
GUI), which (by Git's design) invariably also means a having local 
repository.

Of course not all UIs support advanced Git features, but the more 
advanced ones go far beyond what GitHub has implemented in their web 
interface (or their own rudimentary Git UI called GitHub Desktop)

My favorite tool of choice is Atlassian Sourcetree (from the folks 
behind BitBucket, an alternative to GitHub), which does seem to support 
both submodules and subtrees (you can add a new submodule or subtree 
from the GUI).

> I already have my projects organized locally in
> folders, and to bring in an SCM would be more effort that it's worth at
> this time.

An SCM is exactly what Git is, so I'm rather puzzled?!


> I want organization on GitHub, and even if I did reorganize
> my local POV-Ray directory tree to use Git, I see no indication that
> this organization could be uploaded intact.

If you "upload" the stuff (or "commit" and "push", as the technical 
terms would be) using some arbitrary Git interface that supports 
submodules/subtrees, that hierarchy _will_ end up intact on the GitHub repo.

Whether that hierarchy is also exposed to the user is another matter; 
but I recommend that you see for yourself.

Here's an example of how GitHub themselves use _submodules_ in one of 
their own projects, `linguist`, a tool they use to detect the 
programming language of files in a repository; each folder in its 
`vendor/grammars` directory is actually a submodule:

https://github.com/github/linguist/tree/master/vendor/grammars

[jr] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1692 days and 11 minutes ago]

Wed, 18 Aug 2021 07:10:00 GMT

hi,

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> ... organize repositories ...

not sure if this describes you(r situation), from the fossil docs: "ii. Single
developer with multiple subprojects"

<https://www.fossil-scm.org/home/doc/trunk/www/whyusefossil.wiki>


regards, jr.

[Bald Eagle] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1692 days 7 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Tue, 17 Aug 2021 23:25:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> I decided that GitHub would be a convenient place for my POV-Ray
> contributions, because I would need a GitHub account anyway to lodge
> complaints about the fine work being done by the POV-Ray developers.  I
> could upload my Object Collection

That would be "Objection Collection."  :D

> I'm finding it very difficult to believe that people who could create
> and manage such an elaborate and sophisticated enterprise such as GitHub
> could have overlooked something as simple as hierarchically organized
> projects!  Am I missing something?

Didn't Microsoft / Bill "Gates of Hell" gobble that up?

[Cousin Ricky] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1692 days 9 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Tue, 17 Aug 2021 22:17:53 GMT

On 2021-08-17 4:52 PM (-4), clipka wrote:
> 
> As Git had originally been designed just to manage the source of the
> Linux kernel, support for sub-projects hadn't been part of the design
> goals.
> 
> However, Git seems to have since grown not just one, not two, but three
> ways of managing subprojects; see
> https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/SubprojectSupport for some
> introduction.

Thanks, I did see that submodule support was added to Git at some
point--it looks like around 2007-08.  The wrapper feature looks like it
would meet my online needs, but I suppose submodules could work.

The problem is that GitHub does not appear to support any of these
capabilities.  All searches on GitHub wrappers yield only repositories
of wrappers tailored for specific software, having nothing to do with
Git.  Searches on submodules yields lots of user discussion about Git
commands, but no documentation from GitHub, and no indication that
submodules are even applicable to GitHub.  I do not need or want offline
Git capabilities; I already have my projects organized locally in
folders, and to bring in an SCM would be more effort that it's worth at
this time.  I want organization on GitHub, and even if I did reorganize
my local POV-Ray directory tree to use Git, I see no indication that
this organization could be uploaded intact.

[Jim Henderson] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1692 days 9 hours and 58 minutes ago]

Tue, 17 Aug 2021 21:23:54 GMT

On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 22:52:29 +0200, clipka wrote:

> I've never had much contact with these, and only one variant so far
> (can't even recall which ones; Submodules, I think, but I can't be
> sure), so I have no recommendation which of these will suit your needs
> best. But at lest it might give you a few buzzwords for further searches
> on the internerds.

Yeah, I was thinking that submodules is the way to handle this.  It's not 
too difficult to use, but does require a little work to understand it.  
(I haven't done that for years myself)

Jim
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[clipka] Re: GitHub discourages organization [1692 days 10 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Tue, 17 Aug 2021 20:52:29 GMT

Am 17.08.2021 um 22:33 schrieb Cousin Ricky:

> I very quickly found out that GitHub does not support nested
> organization!  But it does allow sub-folders, so I uploaded each module
> into its own sub-folder.

This is not a matter specific to GitHub, but rather the underlying 
architecture, i.e. Git.

As Git had originally been designed just to manage the source of the 
Linux kernel, support for sub-projects hadn't been part of the design goals.

However, Git seems to have since grown not just one, not two, but three 
ways of managing subprojects; see 
https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/SubprojectSupport for some 
introduction.

I've never had much contact with these, and only one variant so far 
(can't even recall which ones; Submodules, I think, but I can't be 
sure), so I have no recommendation which of these will suit your needs 
best. But at lest it might give you a few buzzwords for further searches 
on the internerds.

[Cousin Ricky] GitHub discourages organization [1692 days 10 hours and 48 minutes ago]

Tue, 17 Aug 2021 20:33:06 GMT

I decided that GitHub would be a convenient place for my POV-Ray
contributions, because I would need a GitHub account anyway to lodge
complaints about the fine work being done by the POV-Ray developers.  I
could upload my Object Collection modules in one folder, my non-OC
contributions in another, and heck, maybe a third area for projects
unrelated to POV-Ray.  It would be an ideal way to centralize my
contributions, rather than having them scattered all over the news server.

I very quickly found out that GitHub does not support nested
organization!  But it does allow sub-folders, so I uploaded each module
into its own sub-folder.

But that didn't solve the problem.  GitHub has no means of downloading a
single folder; users would have to download the whole repository, even
for just one module.  I don't want to put users through that.  And
branches (and I presume forks) can only be made off the entire
repository.  Even worse, I cannot tag individual folders; the whole
repository must be tagged for every module update.  Basically, all
pretense of folders aside, all my disparate modules can only be treated
as a single unit.

It appears that the only clean way to manage modules individually is to
have a separate repository for each module, in a completely flat
structure.  This seems to me like an unwieldy way to store and publish
my projects.

I DuckDuckGo'd around to see how other people managed this problem.
Seems an awful lot of people have the same complaint.  One suggestion
was to keep repositories in "Organizations," so I looked into that.

Nope.  There is a reason I'm a broken cog who cannot make it in my field
of expertise, rather than a wealthy businessman.  I suck at
organization, and I have no management skills.  But to use a GitHub
Organization, you basically have to manage a distributed business
enterprise, complete with security and user classes!  I need a simpler
solution, one that allows any average Jo(e) to download a module without
having to login or ask me for permission.

I'm finding it very difficult to believe that people who could create
and manage such an elaborate and sophisticated enterprise such as GitHub
could have overlooked something as simple as hierarchically organized
projects!  Am I missing something?

Is there some simple way to organize repositories on GitHub?  One that
doesn't require an engineering or management degree to understand and
navigate?  Or do I have to content myself with a choice between randomly
scattered repositories and a single repository in which modules cannot
be treated modularly?

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Upgrading in the Third World [1695 days 1 hour and 51 minutes ago]

Sun, 15 Aug 2021 05:30:00 GMT

"Cousin Ricky" <rickysttATyahooDOTcom> wrote:
>
> Now they're running scheduled rolling blackouts. And by "scheduled rolling
> blackouts," they evidently mean "completely random." Certainly nothing
> correlating with the schedule they posted.
>
> And this has nothing to do with Tropical Storm Grace. Grace isn't here yet.

"Rolling"? Did I say "rolling"? I'm checking around, and there doesn't seem to
be *any* electricity *anywhere.*

At least my phone is working... for now.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Upgrading in the Third World [1695 days 2 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Sun, 15 Aug 2021 05:05:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
>
> Problem is the blackouts.  Lately we're getting multiple blackouts per
> week, including 3 in a 24 hour period over the weekend.  These are not
> planned rolling blackouts, and it has nothing to do with weather; the
> utility just can't seem to keep the generators going.

Now they're running scheduled rolling blackouts. And by "scheduled rolling
blackouts," they evidently mean "completely random." Certainly nothing
correlating with the schedule they posted.

And this has nothing to do with Tropical Storm Grace. Grace isn't here yet.

[Jim Henderson] Re: Upgrading in the Third World [1695 days 12 hours and 42 minutes ago]

Sat, 14 Aug 2021 18:39:50 GMT

On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 09:25:00 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> So how do I begin to upgrade an operating system when the electricity
> might cut out at any moment?  I don't trust the battery backup to last
> long enough to complete the process.

How long is the battery backup likely to run for?

Given that you have a generator with a manual cutover, all you need the 
battery to provide power for is long enough to get the generator started 
up.  Power the battery backup with the generator if/when the power cuts 
out, and let the battery backup keep things running until the generator 
is running.

You can significantly reduce the load on the battery backup by turning 
off any monitor (and other peripherals) if/when the power cuts out.

I have a couple of UPSes in my setup here (I usually don't need them, but 
they're nice to have on the rare occasions the power goes out here), and 
when the power does go out, I come into my office and shut down all non-
essential systems and turn off the monitors.  I have a couple of portable 
battery-powered chargers for phones/tablets and such, so I don't plug 
those devices into the UPS at all when the power's out.

Also, what operating system is in use?  Some do a better job of providing 
recoverability than others if the process is interrupted.

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[clipka] Re: Upgrading in the Third World [1696 days 7 hours and 2 minutes ago]

Sat, 14 Aug 2021 00:19:02 GMT

Am 13.08.2021 um 19:16 schrieb Cousin Ricky:

>>> So how do I begin to upgrade an operating system when the electricity
>>> might cut out at any moment?
>>
>> Rent a small generator?
> 
> I have a generator.  It goes with the territory in the USVI.  But it
> doesn't cut in automatically, and I rely on someone switch the circuits.

Sounds to me like it might actually be smartest to run the upgrade 
generator-powered throughout, period.

[jr] Re: Upgrading in the Third World [1696 days 13 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Fri, 13 Aug 2021 17:25:00 GMT

hi,

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> On 2021-06-28 9:25 AM (-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
> >
> > My operating system is past overdue for an upgrade, to the point where
> > my Web clients refuse to upgrade themselves.  This has caused more than
> > one website to complain, including GitHub.  But I have all the necessary
> > OS upgrades downloaded and ready to go.
> >
> > Problem is the blackouts.
>
> It turns out the bigger problem is my computer itself.  It refuses to
> burn DVDs, it refuses to boot from bootable USB sticks, and it refuses
> to even acknowledge bootable DVDs.

that is just v unusual. you have checked your BIOS settings?  if the h/disk is
listed first in boot order, for eaxample, USB + DVD will not get a look in.


regards, jr.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Upgrading in the Third World [1696 days 14 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Fri, 13 Aug 2021 17:16:57 GMT

On 2021-06-28 10:21 AM (-4), ingo wrote:
> in news:60d9cdae$1@news.povray.org Cousin Ricky wrote:
> 
>> So how do I begin to upgrade an operating system when the electricity
>> might cut out at any moment? 
> 
> Rent a small generator?

I have a generator.  It goes with the territory in the USVI.  But it
doesn't cut in automatically, and I rely on someone switch the circuits.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Upgrading in the Third World [1696 days 14 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Fri, 13 Aug 2021 17:12:13 GMT

On 2021-06-28 9:25 AM (-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
> 
> My operating system is past overdue for an upgrade, to the point where
> my Web clients refuse to upgrade themselves.  This has caused more than
> one website to complain, including GitHub.  But I have all the necessary
> OS upgrades downloaded and ready to go.
> 
> Problem is the blackouts.

It turns out the bigger problem is my computer itself.  It refuses to
burn DVDs, it refuses to boot from bootable USB sticks, and it refuses
to even acknowledge bootable DVDs.  Instructions and advice from
openSUSE, from the GRUB documentation, and from Linux sites and forums
all over the Web do not work as advertised.  The computer blocks my
every attempt to upgrade anything.

I've managed to jury-rig a makeshift upgrade to Firefox so that I can
join GitHub, although the new setup did not import my old Firefox
environment.  This will at least allow me to proceed with Object
Collection module updates that didn't make it to Le Forgeron's mirror
prior to the POV server crash.  In the meantime, a new computer is on my
shopping list--one with a power supply that actually charges the battery.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Upgrading in the Third World [1696 days 14 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Fri, 13 Aug 2021 16:56:16 GMT

On 2021-06-29 3:45 PM (-4), Bald Eagle wrote:
> 
> Looks like this guy covered this issue as well:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q4dUt1yK0g

I would definitely consider that, if I weren't convinced that I would
electrocute myself.

[Andrel Linnenbank] Re: 360 degree anaglyph panoramas [1708 days 11 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Sun, 1 Aug 2021 20:12:18 GMT

On 20-6-2021 00:24, Mike Horvath wrote:
> Is it technically possible to create anaglyph panoramic images that work 
> in standard panorama viewers? Or does the viewing software need to be 
> made to specially handle these images?
> 
> 
> Mike

With anagyphs the trick is that you generate two images from slightly 
different positions. For a 360 panorama those positions need to turn as 
well. That requires changing images during viewing. That makes it a 
different sort of image, so not possible with standard images.

I think,

   Andrel