news.povray.org message digest

[Maetes] Re: Star Wars Destroyer, Tie-Fighter Tie-Interce... [4 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Fri, 14 Aug 2026 10:10:00 GMT

3D-Version of the pic

[Maetes] Star Wars Destroyer, Tie-Fighter Tie-Interceptor [4 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Fri, 14 Aug 2026 10:05:00 GMT

I have continued to work on the Star Wars models, now 3 more are temporarily
finished.

Destroyer
Tie-Fighter
Tie-Interceptor

All models created by Dylan M. Beattie in 1997. I was in short email contact
with him and he sounded happy that his old models are back in the air.

As always, I have only done the bare minimum, interesting gimmicks are still to
come. Macro parameters and other things can change over time.

Documentation and download:
https://www.maetes.com/en/blog/star-wars-empire-povray-models

Ciao, Martin

[Maetes] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90 [4 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Fri, 14 Aug 2026 09:55:00 GMT

Hi Droj,

I didn't change the textures, just outsourced them so that you can easily change
them without editing the original code.

I created my example photo without much effort, didn't pay attention to
appearance and exposure, something like that will come later, if at all.

Your picture looks very good, atmospheric.

If you send me your code, I can see if I can include some of your changes, then
everyone will get something out of it. But I don't know when I'll get to it, I'm
currently working on other models.

Martin

[koppi] towers of hanoi [15 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Thu, 13 Aug 2026 22:45:10 GMT

I solved the "towers of hanoi" puzzle using an iterative solver with an 
explicit stack inside the bullet physics playground.

Video link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blw8_oLthRQ

Source code
https://github.com/bullet-physics-playground/bpp/blob/master/demo/koppi/hanoi.lua

Happy POVing!

--
koppi

[jr] Re: change "object" keyword to something more ex... [1 day 20 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Wed, 12 Aug 2026 18:15:00 GMT

hi,

"Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> "object" seems a little hard to grasp for beginners in POV-Ray ...
> Thanks for sharing your opinions on this ...

I guess (I can imagine) "lacking historical perspective" being a problem; ie
person not taking into account that POV-Ray and the SDL vocabulary were around
before object-oriented everything became "the paradigm".

regards, jr.

[Bald Eagle] Re: change "object" keyword to something more ex... [2 days 3 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Wed, 12 Aug 2026 11:05:00 GMT

"Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> I think "instance" would be less surprising and less loaded with
> extra meaning,

I think instantiate would be better - more verb/sentence-like.

#declare Thing = sphere { ... }

#instantiate {Thing}

There has definitely been much past discussion about the syntax of SDL.

Being able to define keyword aliases would help explore this a lot.

#declare Thing = sphere { ... }
#object {Thing}
#alias object = instantiate;
#instantiate {Thing}

[Mr] change "object" keyword to something more explic... [2 days 15 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Tue, 11 Aug 2026 23:00:00 GMT

"object" seems a little hard to grasp for beginners in POV-Ray but it may get
worse in POV 4 when more object oriented syntaxes are probably going to make
their way into the language. What would intuition expect an "object" keyword to
do ? I will not speculate... but what it actually does in POV-Ray certainly is a
much more specific feature, called instanciation and documentation explains it
correctly. I think "instance" would be less surprising and less loaded with
extra meaning,
for instance, the kind of mistakes the current phrasing leads newcomers to is to
try and use it like a CSG keyword, trying to feed it whatever sort of input
between the braces, expecting it would result in an object... while the input it
expects should in fact already be an object and a single one! also it does allow
to populate it with either a declared variable name invoking an object, but also
a root level primitive (sphere cylinder etc)! ... This I don't know why... as it
encourages one level nesting that seems useless. Thanks for sharing your
opinions on this and I already know I'll learn from them!

[Thomas de Groot] Re: nntp connexion hs [3 days 7 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Tue, 11 Aug 2026 07:19:22 GMT

Thank you so much, Chris!

-- 
Thomas

[Droj] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90 [3 days 15 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Mon, 10 Aug 2026 23:00:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> In the last few years I have found some finished, partly ancient Povray models
> on the Internet, upgraded to version 3.7 and expanded a little.
> I now wanted to publish them gradually on my website.
>
> The first one is a Corvette from the Star Wars Universe.
> https://www.maetes.com/en/blog/new-rubric-povray-ox-and-star-wars-corvette-cr90
>
> Ma

Hi Maetes,

Just some background information about the model:
 - it's called Corellian Corvette CR 90 (or CCRV)
 - the original code was created by Howard E. Day 1998 for Povray 3.0
 - the code was onverted to POV-Ray 3.1 by John Dickson

The Corellian CR 90 model was part of a POV-Ray Collection called 'Star Wars'
with various TIE fighters and WING fighters and of course with Han Solo's
Millenium Falcon.

I found that starship too in my archives last year.
So I cleaned up the code and I pimped up the model a bit (additional laser
cannons and some illumination) but like you I did not touch the model's
textures.
Changing the textures would be like extinguishing the author's spirit!

Here is my version the CCRV.

Droj

[kurtzlepirate] Re: nntp connexion hs [4 days 7 hours and 2 minutes ago]

Mon, 10 Aug 2026 07:22:28 GMT

On 09/08/2026 18:38, Chris Cason wrote:

> 
> Any chance that during the reconfiguration you added a username? This 
> isn't necessary for the NNTP server and unless you actually have an 
> account on it (which you don't; the website accounts are for HTTP, not 
> NNTP) then your connection will fail in the way you showed.


Yes, I did add a username.
I understand better now.

Thanks for clarifying that Chris.





-- 
klp
compagnie de la banquise

[William F Pokorny] Re: nntp connexion hs [4 days 8 hours and 54 minutes ago]

Mon, 10 Aug 2026 05:30:48 GMT

On 8/8/26 22:21, Chris Cason wrote:
>> I can no longer connect to Thunderbird to read the news.
> 
> Folks,
...

Thank you Chris!

Bill P.

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [4 days 17 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 21:05:01 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 09/08/2026 15:46, Mike Miller wrote:
> > I'm still trying to visualize what is happening on the lower 'entry' level. I
> > picture the camera starting at the base of a 'cooling' liquid pool and pipes
> > with the camera drifting up the stairs and towards the tunnel entrance. Attached
> > are my current thoughts on the lower level, but I'm still looking at some
> > reference, so the design may change. :)
>
> I like what I see and your images remind me of my childhood when
>
> I guess finding the optimal camera path can be done easily in
> Blender first.
> --
> YB

Yep, I'm definitely using Blender for quick camera angle studies. I jumped into
Lumion this morning to start modeling a possible topo terrain and to get a
better idea of how much foreground modeling I have. Attached are some quick
screen studies from Lumion of what I have so far. I'll be able to export the
..raw height field map to duplicate in POV.
Mike.

[Chris Cason] Re: nntp connexion hs [4 days 21 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 16:38:34 GMT

On 10/08/2026 01:31, kurtzlepirate wrote:
> But... my thunderbird didn't handle this transition well, and nothing was working
anymore. I saw some really strange things in the logs (see screenshot).

Any chance that during the reconfiguration you added a username? This isn't necessary
for the NNTP server and unless you actually have an account on it (which you don't;
the website accounts are for HTTP, not NNTP) then your connection will fail in the way
you showed.

While it's working now, I'd still suggest you go to Settings -> Privacy & Security and
click on the "Saved Passwords" button. If in the list you get there is any reference
to news.povray.org then that was the cause.

-- Chris

[kurtzlepirate] Re: nntp connexion hs [4 days 22 hours and 53 minutes ago]

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 15:31:50 GMT

On 09/08/2026 04:21, Chris Cason wrote:

> Folks,
> 
> Apologies for the issue, but web scrapers forced my hand by totally 
> bringing the system down attempting to scrape the news.povray.org web 
> interface with several thousand connections per second (!)
> 
> [snip]
> 
> At the moment, provided you can use the new IP address, access to port 
> 119 should work whichever method you employ.
> 

You don't need to apologize. If anything, we're the ones who should 
thank you for the work you do to maintain the POVray server for our 
little community.

Implementing a waf is always complicated. You have to constantly balance 
the service you offer with the security measures you need to put in 
place. In the world of wafs, darkness reigns supremeâ€”or perhaps even 
magic !!!

Setting up this new url just for nntp is a great idea. Simple and effective.

The issue has now been resolved. THANK YOU.

But... my thunderbird didn't handle this transition well, and nothing 
was working anymore. I saw some really strange things in the logs (see 
screenshot).

So I deleted all the POV-Ray configurations (I have other configurations 
for other NTP servers that work fine)

I'm in the process of reconfiguring everything, and my first test in 
p.test went well. Gotchaâ€Š!.

Hoping that Cloudflare doesn't introduce any more jokes.

Regards

[Chris Cason] Re: nntp connexion hs [5 days and 25 minutes ago]

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 13:59:26 GMT

On 9/08/2026 12:21, Chris Cason wrote:
> This has resulted in news.povray.org getting a new IP address pointing at
cloudflare, and it doesn't relay or proxy NNTP.

Also, for the record, I have now added NNTP SRV records to the DNS for povray.org and
news.povray.org. For the technically inclined, you can use nslookup or dig etc to
query _nntp._tcp.povray.org or _nntp._tcp.news.povray.org. e.g. "nslookup -q=srv
_nntp._tcp.povray.org" or "dig _nntp._tcp.povray.org SRV +short".

There are very few NNTP clients that use SRV but it is a thing (see
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2782) and will remain for as long as we can
still run NNTP.

[Chris Cason] Re: nntp connexion hs [5 days and 54 minutes ago]

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 13:30:43 GMT

To give you an idea of how insane the (presumably AI) scraper was hitting us, here's a
screenshot of the DNS analytics for the period in question (I can't use HTTP analytics
for the "before" period because at the time news.povray.org was not proxied by
Cloudflare and thus they have no data on it; the DNS queries are a substitute).

Keep in mind each DNS query for the IP address of news.povray.org does not equal one
connection, since the scrapers only need to query for the IP address once per client,
and it is then cached. This was demonstrated when I did turn on Cloudflare proxying
but the hammering continued due to the above caching, leading me to need to firewall
it off for a day or two.

We will never know how many individual IP addresses were involved in the attack but I
expect it to be in the millions. This is not unprecedented - we had to deal with a
network of scrapers hitting the f-lohmueller.de site a month or two ago. In that case,
while they were coming in fast, they weren't so fast as to overflow the listen queue
so we were able to log every request (it also helps that the FL site is fully static,
no PHP and no database, which is not the case for the news server). As JR can attest,
for that case alone the logs showed the requests coming from over 800,000 unique IP
addresses. Fortunately we were able to isolate them well enough to firewall those off.

In the DNS analytics screenshot (taken today) you can see that over the prior three
days there were about 29 million queries for the address of news.povray.org, averaging
130 queries/second. But that's over three days - you can see from the spike that
almost all were on Friday (AU time) and peaked at 2.6 million requests/hour (about 720
requests/second) just after 3pm, at which time I started tuning the Cloudflare ruleset
to keep bots out but allow normal visitors (there was a pattern in the HTTP requests).
I was trying to avoid having to use a challenge (the "are you human" dialog that web
visitors get) but in the end I had to turn that on, too, as none of the rules I set up
would bite hard enough. I probably could have done it with a regex, but that's only
available for Enterprise customers*

In the screenshot of the HTTP analytics - which only became relevant once I turned on
the proxy - you can see that in a single four-hour period there were over 17 million
requests, peaking at around 250,000 per minute at 3:15-ish, at which point I started
setting the bot rejection rules. These requests were only from clients that "saw" the
new IP address, as mentioned above there were an unknown (but very large) number of
bots still hitting the direct IP address, which Cloudflare doesn't see.

Overall this careless, stupid and needless deployment of a clearly broken scraper not
only took down the site for a while but also has cost me at least a day of lost
productivity, as well as requiring the DNS change which blocked NNTP access. It is
almost beyond belief that anyone would expect something like this to work. I can only
assume it's a so-called "vibe-coded" program and that the authors simply *did not
care* if it worked or not, they just deployed it anyway.

I have taken the time to document this not only to show our userbase why we had to
make the change, but also to make a public record of what's been going on behind the
scenes due to the race to train LLM's and the cheap availability of immense
residential proxy networks. I will also post this same data to povray.org's front
page.

Our site is not by any means the only one dealing with this sort of nonsense, and I
suspect it's going to get worse before it gets better.

* That said I am grateful to Cloudflare for providing us with a free "Pro" account
under their open-source initiative.

-- Chris

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [5 days 1 hour and 5 minutes ago]

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 13:19:40 GMT

On 09/08/2026 15:46, Mike Miller wrote:
> I'm still trying to visualize what is happening on the lower 'entry' level. I
> picture the camera starting at the base of a 'cooling' liquid pool and pipes
> with the camera drifting up the stairs and towards the tunnel entrance. Attached
> are my current thoughts on the lower level, but I'm still looking at some
> reference, so the design may change. :)

I like what I see and your images remind me of my childhood when
grandfather (ChiefÂ mechanic of theÂ heavy machine
toolsÂ plant) was
workingÂ at home with blueprints. At the age of 5 I was completely
enchanted with the powerÂ and the beauty of mechanics.

I guess finding the optimal camera path can be done easily in
Blender first.
--
YB

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [5 days 1 hour and 35 minutes ago]

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 12:50:01 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 06/08/2026 20:29, Mike Miller wrote:
> > Attached are final plan and elevation renderings from POV of this pump house
> > model. I rendered them at 8K and started drafting a section of the lower level
> > to start the foreground hardscape and topo. I'm working on a pencil drawing of
> > what I imagine as the 'approach' shot and will post.
>
> Excellent combination of pencil and 3D rendering - looks very
> impressive. I am also following updates on your site and
> like new images that appear there, including sketches.
> Some of them remind me of Roger Dean works - wild boar is very good !
> https://www.miller-raytracer.com/s-k-e-t-c-h-e-s
> --
> YB

Thanks YB.
I'm still trying to visualize what is happening on the lower 'entry' level. I
picture the camera starting at the base of a 'cooling' liquid pool and pipes
with the camera drifting up the stairs and towards the tunnel entrance. Attached
are my current thoughts on the lower level, but I'm still looking at some
reference, so the design may change. :)
Mike.

[yesbird] Re: nntp connexion hs [5 days 4 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 10:08:53 GMT

On 09/08/2026 05:21, Chris Cason wrote:
> Apologies for the issue, but web scrapers forced my hand by totally 
> bringing the system down attempting to scrape the news.povray.org web 
> interface with several thousand connections per second (!)

Chris,
thanks so much for this fix and all other things you are doing for our
community. Changing server address to nntp.povray.org in settings works
fine for me.
--
YB

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [5 days 4 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 10:03:37 GMT

On 06/08/2026 20:29, Mike Miller wrote:
> Attached are final plan and elevation renderings from POV of this pump house
> model. I rendered them at 8K and started drafting a section of the lower level
> to start the foreground hardscape and topo. I'm working on a pencil drawing of
> what I imagine as the 'approach' shot and will post.

Excellent combination of pencil and 3D rendering - looks very
impressive. I am also following updates on your site and
like new images that appear there, including sketches.
Some of them remind me of Roger Dean works - wild boar is very good !
https://www.miller-raytracer.com/s-k-e-t-c-h-e-s
-- 
YB

[Chris Cason] Re: nntp connexion hs [5 days 11 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 02:49:25 GMT

On 9/08/2026 12:21, Chris Cason wrote:
> by now the scrapers should all have picked up the new IP address, or so I hope.

And this does appear to be the case. So direct connections to the www server should
work again, meaning a hosts entry is probably the best approach for those who can use
it.

-- Chris

[Chris Cason] Re: nntp connexion hs [5 days 12 hours and 3 minutes ago]

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 02:21:33 GMT

On 8/08/2026 23:24, kurtz le pirate wrote:
> I can no longer connect to Thunderbird to read the news.

Folks,

Apologies for the issue, but web scrapers forced my hand by totally bringing the
system down attempting to scrape the news.povray.org web interface with several
thousand connections per second (!)

There was no clear pattern of IP addresses or other facets I could use to block them
server-side so I had no option but to turn on cloudflare for the news and www sites.

This has resulted in news.povray.org getting a new IP address pointing at cloudflare,
and it doesn't relay or proxy NNTP.

The workaround for now is to either use a new DNS entry I have created -
nntp.povray.org - which points at the real IP address, or to add a new hosts entry to
your system that equates news.povray.org to the IP address 203.29.75.35. This has the
downside that connections to the web view at news.povray.org will no longer work,
since even after I cloaked news.povray.org with cloudflare, I was still seeing
millions of connections direct to the IP address and had to block ingress on port 80
and 443 to cloudflare IP's only.

After posting this message I will give turning off the IP block a test to see if the
direct connections have gone away - by now the scrapers should all have picked up the
new IP address, or so I hope.

Which method you use depends on your NNTP software. Thunderbird allows you to change
the IP without losing your existing cached NG's, content etc, so changing to
nntp.povray.org in the connection settings should work. Other software may require you
to toss your cached data (my iOS newsreader wanted to do this).

At the moment, provided you can use the new IP address, access to port 119 should work
whichever method you employ.

-- Chris

[Uncle Josh] Re: nntp connexion hs [5 days 15 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Sat, 8 Aug 2026 22:30:00 GMT

"kurtz le pirate" <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I can no longer connect to Thunderbird to read the news.

I'm glad it's not just me. I was getting very frustrated because Thunderbird
also seemed to disconnect from my Bluehost email and Bluehost is not being
helpful in reconnecting.

Uncle Josh

[yesbird] Re: nntp connexion hs [6 days and 15 minutes ago]

Sat, 8 Aug 2026 14:10:00 GMT

"kurtz le pirate" <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> I can no longer connect to Thunderbird to read the news.

Same here and also thanks to jr for explanation, will communicate by Web now.
--
YB

[kurtz le pirate] nntp connexion hs [6 days 1 hour ago]

Sat, 8 Aug 2026 13:25:00 GMT

Hello,

I can no longer connect to Thunderbird to read the news.

I tried using the web interface, but I was denied access there as well.
My “kurtz the pirate” account seems to have disappeared.

I just created an account that lets me log in via the web interface, but I still
can't log in via nntp.

Still getting the same error in the thunderbird console :

error { target: TCPSocket, isTrusted: true, name: "ConnectionRefusedError",
message: "Network", errorCode: 2152398861, srcElement: TCPSocket, currentTarget:
TCPSocket, eventPhase: 2, bubbles: false, cancelable: false, … }
ConnectionRefusedError Network 2152398861 NntpClient.sys.mjs:254:18
_onError resource:///modules/NntpClient.sys.mjs:254

jr (thanks to him) told me that chris must have, quite rightly, put safeguards
in place with cloudflare

Could using 563 (SSL/TLS) be a solution?


If you have a solution, I'd love to hear it!
Thanks in advance

[jr] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90 [6 days 6 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Sat, 8 Aug 2026 07:45:00 GMT

hi,

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> I just testet it, but the tie is one big mesh, without ...

yes, sorry, all those meshes were converted from existing; the library's home
page has all the examples.


regards, jr.

[jr] Re: Weird benchmark rendered image in documentat... [6 days 6 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Sat, 8 Aug 2026 07:45:00 GMT

hi,

"Warren" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Hello / Hi
> I've been visiting this page: https://www.povray.org/download/benchmark.php
> and I find that the image that represents the official benchmark of POVRay is a
> little too dark. When I render this image in a linux OS, the rendered benchmark
> image is much brighter. Maybe it might be worth replacing the current image with
> a real one with the true size as written in the ini file ( 512 x 512 pixels ).
> But that's not urgent at all, I do agree with that.

thanks, agree that the image should be re-rendered, will look into it.


regards, jr.

[Warren] Weird benchmark rendered image in documentation ... [6 days 19 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Fri, 7 Aug 2026 18:50:00 GMT

Hello / Hi
I've been visiting this page: https://www.povray.org/download/benchmark.php
and I find that the image that represents the official benchmark of POVRay is a
little too dark. When I render this image in a linux OS, the rendered benchmark
image is much brighter. Maybe it might be worth replacing the current image with
a real one with the true size as written in the ini file ( 512 x 512 pixels ).
But that's not urgent at all, I do agree with that.
Regards,
Antoine.

Url of online benchmark image:
https://www.povray.org/i/benchmark-thumbnail.jpg

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [7 days 20 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Thu, 6 Aug 2026 17:35:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > ...
> > I seem to be dropping sentences when I use line returns in my responses. My
> > previewed messages look OK except for the mis-spells. :) ?
>
> not your fault, the forum s/ware struggles with UTF-8.
>
>
> regards, jr.

Thanks jr. It had me confused. :)

Attached are final plan and elevation renderings from POV of this pump house
model. I rendered them at 8K and started drafting a section of the lower level
to start the foreground hardscape and topo. I'm working on a pencil drawing of
what I imagine as the 'approach' shot and will post.
Miller

[Maetes] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90 [8 days 4 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Thu, 6 Aug 2026 09:35:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I never got into Star Wars, but that craft does look nice.  fwiw, if you need a
> 'tie fighter', see the demo for 'Tabulated' (my wiki page).
>
> regards, jr.

I just testet it, but the tie is one big mesh, without textures or even multiple
meshes so that we know where is what.

The same goes for the shuttle, which I was also interested in.
And that doesn't look like the original shuttle :)
Bit it looks very detailed, as black as it is.

Doesn't matter, I have a good model of the Tie-Fighter.

ma

[jr] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [8 days 8 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Thu, 6 Aug 2026 05:35:00 GMT

hi,

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> I seem to be dropping sentences when I use line returns in my responses. My
> previewed messages look OK except for the mis-spells. :) ?

not your fault, the forum s/ware struggles with UTF-8.


regards, jr.

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [8 days 11 hours ago]

Thu, 6 Aug 2026 03:25:01 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > > "Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> > > > "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Attached are elevations & plan renderings from POV of my current pump house
> > > > > model.
> > > >
> > > > Damn.
> > > > I'm not an architect or a graphic designer, but have done a fair amount of
> > > > building work, and have needed to measure/estimate the sizes of things, and
have
> > > > designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
> > > >
> > > > I love this stuff.
> > > >
> > > > Do you model everything as meshes first?
> > > > Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
> > > >
> > > > What about the textures?
> > > > Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
> > > > UV mapping?
> > > >
> > > > Is anything ever done procedurally?
> > > >
> > > > Why/why not would help a lot of people get good work done more quickly and
then
> > > > step two is making it LOOK better without 100 iterations of tweaking.
> > > >
> > > > - BE
> > >
> > > >> designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
> > > Nice, that kind of how I got into architecture. I spent summers in high school
> > > restoring churches and was fascinated when I got to work on old sets of
> > > drawings.
> > >
> > > >> Do you model everything as meshes first?
> > > For the production/client work, yes, but in POV, I try to build scenes without
> > >
> > > do use Blender for some complete forms and for exporting position data for POV
> > > types.
> > >
> > > >> Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
> > > Yes, use macros to create 'types' with 'properties' like: bolts, pipes, window
> > > frames, beams, etc. I also use them in writing & testing materials & for
> > >
> > >
> > > >> What about the textures?> Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
> > > >> UV mapping?
> > > For my POV work, it is a mix. I relied heavily on image mapped textures for my
> > > architectural renderings, but I prefer to make procedural textures for my POV
> > > renderings. Professionally, we use a PBR setup with real-time viewing which
> > > makes the texturing process easier. I still export some diffuse and normal maps
> > > out of Substance.
> > >
> > > Mike
> >
> > SORRY -- I posted something very cryptic this morning.
> >
> > >> designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
> >
> > youth-group restoring old churches and was fascinated when I got to work on an
> > old set of drawings. I went from drawing comic books to illustrating building.
> >
> > >> Do you model everything as meshes first?
> > For the production/client work, yes, but in POV, I try to build scenes without
> >
> > do use Blender for some complex forms and for exporting position data for POV
> > types.
> > >> Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
> >
> > Yes, use macros to create 'types with properties' objects: bolts, pipes, window
> > frames, beams, etc. I also use them in my writing & testing materials & for
> >
> > use and can post here. I program parametric Revit families and use a simulate
> > setup in POV (using a 2D profile to create extrudes, sweeps, voids, etc.). I use
> > 'mixed' array to create a 'Sudo' class for storing properties that get passed to
> > a 'construction' macro. It allows for creating many variations from the same
> > template.
> >
> > >> What about the textures?> Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
> > >> UV mapping?
> > For my POV work, it is a mix. I relied heavily on image mapped textures for my
> > architectural renderings, but I prefer to make procedural textures for my POV
> > renderings. Professionally, we use a PBR setup with real-time viewing which
> > makes the texturing process easier. I still export some diffuse and bump-maps
> > out of Substance.
> > Miller
>
> I seem to be dropping sentences when I use line returns in my responses. My
> previewed messages look OK except for the mis-spells. :) ?


Attached are POV renderings of my current model / progress. I still a few more
parts to model and then I'll start working on the foreground hardscape and topo.
Mike.

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [8 days 17 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 20:30:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > "Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> > > "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Attached are elevations & plan renderings from POV of my current pump house
> > > > model.
> > >
> > > Damn.
> > > I'm not an architect or a graphic designer, but have done a fair amount of
> > > building work, and have needed to measure/estimate the sizes of things, and have
> > > designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
> > >
> > > I love this stuff.
> > >
> > > Do you model everything as meshes first?
> > > Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
> > >
> > > What about the textures?
> > > Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
> > > UV mapping?
> > >
> > > Is anything ever done procedurally?
> > >
> > > Why/why not would help a lot of people get good work done more quickly and then
> > > step two is making it LOOK better without 100 iterations of tweaking.
> > >
> > > - BE
> >
> > >> designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
> > Nice, that kind of how I got into architecture. I spent summers in high school
> > restoring churches and was fascinated when I got to work on old sets of
> > drawings.
> >
> > >> Do you model everything as meshes first?
> > For the production/client work, yes, but in POV, I try to build scenes without
> >
> > do use Blender for some complete forms and for exporting position data for POV
> > types.
> >
> > >> Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
> > Yes, use macros to create 'types' with 'properties' like: bolts, pipes, window
> > frames, beams, etc. I also use them in writing & testing materials & for
> >
> >
> > >> What about the textures?> Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
> > >> UV mapping?
> > For my POV work, it is a mix. I relied heavily on image mapped textures for my
> > architectural renderings, but I prefer to make procedural textures for my POV
> > renderings. Professionally, we use a PBR setup with real-time viewing which
> > makes the texturing process easier. I still export some diffuse and normal maps
> > out of Substance.
> >
> > Mike
>
> SORRY -- I posted something very cryptic this morning.
>
> >> designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
>
> youth-group restoring old churches and was fascinated when I got to work on an
> old set of drawings. I went from drawing comic books to illustrating building.
>
> >> Do you model everything as meshes first?
> For the production/client work, yes, but in POV, I try to build scenes without
>
> do use Blender for some complex forms and for exporting position data for POV
> types.
> >> Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
>
> Yes, use macros to create 'types with properties' objects: bolts, pipes, window
> frames, beams, etc. I also use them in my writing & testing materials & for
>
> use and can post here. I program parametric Revit families and use a simulate
> setup in POV (using a 2D profile to create extrudes, sweeps, voids, etc.). I use
> 'mixed' array to create a 'Sudo' class for storing properties that get passed to
> a 'construction' macro. It allows for creating many variations from the same
> template.
>
> >> What about the textures?> Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
> >> UV mapping?
> For my POV work, it is a mix. I relied heavily on image mapped textures for my
> architectural renderings, but I prefer to make procedural textures for my POV
> renderings. Professionally, we use a PBR setup with real-time viewing which
> makes the texturing process easier. I still export some diffuse and bump-maps
> out of Substance.
> Miller

I seem to be dropping sentences when I use line returns in my responses. My
previewed messages look OK except for the mis-spells. :) ?

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [8 days 19 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 18:45:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> > "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> >
> > > Attached are elevations & plan renderings from POV of my current pump house
> > > model.
> >
> > Damn.
> > I'm not an architect or a graphic designer, but have done a fair amount of
> > building work, and have needed to measure/estimate the sizes of things, and have
> > designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
> >
> > I love this stuff.
> >
> > Do you model everything as meshes first?
> > Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
> >
> > What about the textures?
> > Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
> > UV mapping?
> >
> > Is anything ever done procedurally?
> >
> > Why/why not would help a lot of people get good work done more quickly and then
> > step two is making it LOOK better without 100 iterations of tweaking.
> >
> > - BE
>
> >> designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
> Nice, that kind of how I got into architecture. I spent summers in high school
> restoring churches and was fascinated when I got to work on old sets of
> drawings.
>
> >> Do you model everything as meshes first?
> For the production/client work, yes, but in POV, I try to build scenes without
>
> do use Blender for some complete forms and for exporting position data for POV
> types.
>
> >> Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
> Yes, use macros to create 'types' with 'properties' like: bolts, pipes, window
> frames, beams, etc. I also use them in writing & testing materials & for
>
>
> >> What about the textures?> Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
> >> UV mapping?
> For my POV work, it is a mix. I relied heavily on image mapped textures for my
> architectural renderings, but I prefer to make procedural textures for my POV
> renderings. Professionally, we use a PBR setup with real-time viewing which
> makes the texturing process easier. I still export some diffuse and normal maps
> out of Substance.
>
> Mike

SORRY -- I posted something very cryptic this morning.

>> designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
Nice, that’s kind of how I got into architecture. I spent summers in high school
youth-group restoring old churches and was fascinated when I got to work on an
old set of drawings. I went from drawing comic books to illustrating building.

>> Do you model everything as meshes first?
For the production/client work, yes, but in POV, I try to build scenes without
mesh. It’s rewarding to me when I can a build a complex object in pure CSG.  I
do use Blender for some complex forms and for exporting position data for POV
types.
>> Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?

Yes, use macros to create 'types with properties' objects: bolts, pipes, window
frames, beams, etc. I also use them in my writing & testing materials & for
read/write functions between software’s. I have a set of architectural macros I
use and can post here. I program parametric Revit families and use a simulate
setup in POV (using a 2D profile to create extrudes, sweeps, voids, etc.). I use
'mixed' array to create a 'Sudo' class for storing properties that get passed to
a 'construction' macro. It allows for creating many variations from the same
template.

>> What about the textures?> Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
>> UV mapping?
For my POV work, it is a mix. I relied heavily on image mapped textures for my
architectural renderings, but I prefer to make procedural textures for my POV
renderings. Professionally, we use a PBR setup with real-time viewing which
makes the texturing process easier. I still export some diffuse and bump-maps
out of Substance.
Miller

[jr] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90 [8 days 19 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 18:45:00 GMT

hi,

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> ...
> JR, where is your wiki page?
>
> What we could do with is a page where all Povrayers present their websites. I
> actually wanted to do it, but nothing has come of it so far.

<wiki.povray.org/content/User:Jr>

has the most recent versions of my stuff, at least (from memory) one bug got
"slain" in 'Tabulated()' since the thread you referred to in the follow-up.

regards, jr.

[jr] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90 [8 days 19 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 18:45:00 GMT

hi,

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> ...
> JR, where is your wiki page?
>
> What we could do with is a page where all Povrayers present their websites. I
> actually wanted to do it, but nothing has come of it so far.

<wiki.povray.org/content/User:Jr>

has the most recent versions of my stuff, 'Tabulated()' has had one bug "slain"
(at least, from memory :-)) since the original thread.  cheers.

regards, jr.

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [9 days 1 hour and 40 minutes ago]

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 12:45:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> > Attached are elevations & plan renderings from POV of my current pump house
> > model.
>
> Damn.
> I'm not an architect or a graphic designer, but have done a fair amount of
> building work, and have needed to measure/estimate the sizes of things, and have
> designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
>
> I love this stuff.
>
> Do you model everything as meshes first?
> Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
>
> What about the textures?
> Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
> UV mapping?
>
> Is anything ever done procedurally?
>
> Why/why not would help a lot of people get good work done more quickly and then
> step two is making it LOOK better without 100 iterations of tweaking.
>
> - BE

>> designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
Nice, that kind of how I got into architecture. I spent summers in high school
restoring churches and was fascinated when I got to work on old sets of
drawings.

>> Do you model everything as meshes first?
For the production/client work, yes, but in POV, I try to build scenes without
mesh. It’s rewarding for me when I can a build a complex object in pure CSG.  I
do use Blender for some complete forms and for exporting position data for POV
types.

>> Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
Yes, use macros to create 'types' with 'properties' like: bolts, pipes, window
frames, beams, etc. I also use them in writing & testing materials & for
read/write functions between software’s.

>> What about the textures?> Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
>> UV mapping?
For my POV work, it is a mix. I relied heavily on image mapped textures for my
architectural renderings, but I prefer to make procedural textures for my POV
renderings. Professionally, we use a PBR setup with real-time viewing which
makes the texturing process easier. I still export some diffuse and normal maps
out of Substance.

Mike

[Alain Martel] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90 [9 days 2 hours and 23 minutes ago]

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 12:01:31 GMT

Le 2026-08-04 Ã  18:04, Bald Eagle a Ã©critÂ :
> "Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> 
>> The first one is a Corvette from the Star Wars Universe.
>> https://www.maetes.com/en/blog/new-rubric-povray-ox-and-star-wars-corvette-cr90
> 
> 
> Nice.
> Maybe if you post an image from the movie, we can offer some ideas for
> texturing, etc to make them look even better.
> 
> I see that there are also folks who have 3D models for printing, so there must
> be good geometry out there as well, if that needs any updating too (missing
> pieces, simplistic placeholders, etc)
> 
> The surface could use some light greebling, but it's looking great!  :)
> 
> - BE
> 

That ship is the Blockade Runner that we see at the start of Episode 4, 
Â«A New HopeÂ».

[Maetes] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90 [9 days 2 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 11:35:00 GMT

JR

This you mean:
https://news.povray.org/povray.text.scene-files/thread/%3C6143533f%40news.povray.org%3E/

I will check it out.

ma

[Maetes] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90 [9 days 2 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 11:30:00 GMT

First of all, I want to publish the repaired and tidy models. Then I start with
extensions.

I don't dare to touch textures for the time being, I'm not good at that. I want
to see the models fly and shoot first:)

Two of them completed their first flight years ago, but that was only
improvised.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDE5s72xvms

JR, where is your wiki page?

What we could do with is a page where all Povrayers present their websites. I
actually wanted to do it, but nothing has come of it so far.

M

[jr] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90 [9 days 7 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 06:45:00 GMT

hi,

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> ...
> The first one is a Corvette from the Star Wars Universe.
> ...

I never got into Star Wars, but that craft does look nice.  fwiw, if you need a
'tie fighter', see the demo for 'Tabulated' (my wiki page).


regards, jr.

[jr] Re: Camera settings [9 days 7 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 06:45:00 GMT

hi,

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> >> Where is it?
> Thanks jr, Like an idiot, I keep going to the old documentation instead
> of the "new" POV wiki.

I use the term "senior moment" </grin>.


regards, jr.

[Bald Eagle] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [9 days 16 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 22:20:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> Attached are elevations & plan renderings from POV of my current pump house
> model.

Damn.
I'm not an architect or a graphic designer, but have done a fair amount of
building work, and have needed to measure/estimate the sizes of things, and have
designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.

I love this stuff.

Do you model everything as meshes first?
Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?

What about the textures?
Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
UV mapping?

Is anything ever done procedurally?

Why/why not would help a lot of people get good work done more quickly and then
step two is making it LOOK better without 100 iterations of tweaking.

- BE

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [9 days 16 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 22:09:09 GMT

On 04/08/2026 22:28, Mike Miller wrote:
> Love seeing my fish model - it was fun to model. Your lighting shows it off
> well. I'd love to pass a few files to you if you have a free CPU....and
> absolutely no rush. I'm deep into the deep minutia of my current project.

Hi, Mike.
I will be glad to assist you in your projects by rendering them,
looking forward to sources.
--
YB

[Bald Eagle] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90 [9 days 16 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 22:05:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

> The first one is a Corvette from the Star Wars Universe.
> https://www.maetes.com/en/blog/new-rubric-povray-ox-and-star-wars-corvette-cr90

Nice.
Maybe if you post an image from the movie, we can offer some ideas for
texturing, etc to make them look even better.

I see that there are also folks who have 3D models for printing, so there must
be good geometry out there as well, if that needs any updating too (missing
pieces, simplistic placeholders, etc)

The surface could use some light greebling, but it's looking great!  :)

- BE

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [9 days 18 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 19:30:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 03/08/2026 23:37, Mike Miller wrote:
> > Yes, that workbench scene does have the object count - almost too many. I would
> > like to animate it someday if I could find a free CPU. :)
> > Mike
>
> Probably I can help you with CPU - I have a hosting with installed
> POVRay 3.8 for long-time experiments, which is not loaded now.
>
> Here is animation of your fish rendered in my small "farm":
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JomLeE21Wic
> --
> YB

Thanks TB.
Love seeing my fish model - it was fun to model. Your lighting shows it off
well. I'd love to pass a few files to you if you have a free CPU....and
absolutely no rush. I'm deep into the deep minutia of my current project.
Mike.

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [9 days 19 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 19:09:16 GMT

On 03/08/2026 23:37, Mike Miller wrote:
> Yes, that workbench scene does have the object count - almost too many. I would
> like to animate it someday if I could find a free CPU. :)
> Mike

Probably I can help you with CPU - I have a hosting with installed
POVRay 3.8 for long-time experiments, which is not loaded now.

Here is animation of your fish rendered in my small "farm":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JomLeE21Wic
--
YB

[Alain Martel] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems [9 days 19 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 18:59:42 GMT

Le 2026-08-04 Ã  07:26, Maetes a Ã©critÂ :
> 
> Whow, great, thanks for that.
> 
> I had to quit the execution of the script, after more than 3 minutes it was
> parsing and parsing ...
Over 3 minutes of parsing ? Check if you have some infinite loop 
somewhere. That or a MASSIVE mesh with several million of triangles.
Before parsing the mesh, add a debug statement to display the number of 
triangles and vertices.
Within any loop, add a debug to show you a loop counter every 100, 200, 
500 or 1000 iterations.

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [9 days 19 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 18:35:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "ingo" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> >
> > > old site:  www.miller-headspin.com
> > >
> >
> > Hi Mike, went through the images from your old site. There's quite a few I don't
> > remember some of the later ones I do and then the there's "The Fish of '92".
> > Ahhhh
> >
> > If you still can track them, you should date all your images. Not for the gaps
> > in my memory, but just to see the time line.
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > ingo
>
> Thanks, ingo.
>
> I agree, I need to get dates and some better descriptions on my site. I lost
> most of my scene files from the early 90's to 2000's. I had posted much of this
> work on my CompuServe account...but I think it's vapor.
> I will be scanning and posting more of my artwork/sketches that I use to model
> POV work.
> Mike.


Attached are elevations & plan renderings from POV of my current pump house
model.
Cheers
Mike

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Camera settings [9 days 23 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 14:58:22 GMT

On 03/08/2026 17:36, jr wrote:
> hi,
> 
> kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
>> I probably didn't search properly, but I can't find the default value
>> for the standard camera angle (perspective).
>>
>> Where is it?
> 
> <wiki.povray.org/content/Reference:Camera>
> 
> ~67.380.
> 
> 
> regards, jr.
> 


Thanks jr, Like an idiot, I keep going to the old documentation instead 
of the "new" POV wiki.





-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Maetes] Star Wars Corvette CR-90 [10 days 2 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 12:15:00 GMT

In the last few years I have found some finished, partly ancient Povray models
on the Internet, upgraded to version 3.7 and expanded a little.
I now wanted to publish them gradually on my website.

The first one is a Corvette from the Star Wars Universe.
https://www.maetes.com/en/blog/new-rubric-povray-ox-and-star-wars-corvette-cr90

Later it will be the turn of other models, which I hope I can also teach to fly
and shoot, but that will take some time
I have small movies in mind that I would like to create.
But before that, I want to try to get in touch with the original programmer of
the scripts.

If you think I publish everything I find under my name, please read the info
page.
https://www.maetes.com/en/povray-ox/informations

I hope the models will become more numerous quickly, and someone can use them.

Ma

[Maetes] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems [10 days 2 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 11:30:00 GMT

Whow, great, thanks for that.

I had to quit the execution of the script, after more than 3 minutes it was
parsing and parsing ...

But I can probably separate the textures and test them one by one on the
asteroid. If I have new results, I show them, of course.

I'm also a little further along with the iso-asteroid, looked which numbers I
have to change to make it more unround.

Thanks again,
Martin

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [10 days 17 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 20:50:00 GMT

"ingo" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> > old site:  www.miller-headspin.com
> >
>
> Hi Mike, went through the images from your old site. There's quite a few I don't
> remember some of the later ones I do and then the there's "The Fish of '92".
> Ahhhh
>
> If you still can track them, you should date all your images. Not for the gaps
> in my memory, but just to see the time line.
>
> Cheers!
>
> ingo

Thanks, ingo.

I agree, I need to get dates and some better descriptions on my site. I lost
most of my scene files from the early 90's to 2000's. I had posted much of this
work on my CompuServe account...but I think it's vapor.
I will be scanning and posting more of my artwork/sketches that I use to model
POV work.
Mike.

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [10 days 17 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 20:40:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Hi Mike, welcome back.
>
> I'm one of the new ones, only active since 2016.
>
> Nice website, crazy good pictures.
>
> I took a look a few days ago, there was a download section, from your workbench.
> Quite a lot of things in it, great that you published it (at least briefly).
>
> It's written for 3.8, but maybe I can still learn a bit for 3.7 (debian
> repository-install).
>
> Greetings from Cologne/Germany.

Hello Germany
Thanks, Maetes.
Yes, that workbench scene does have the object count - almost too many. I would
like to animate it someday if I could find a free CPU. :)
Mike

[Bald Eagle] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems [10 days 18 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 19:45:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

https://news.povray.org/povray.text.scene-files/thread/%3C48d158e3%241%40news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=447197&toff=200

I used the source to do this scene

https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3Cweb.5d3c5fe27be432e04eec112d0%40news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=44797
9&toff=700

Didn't take that long to render IIRC.

- BE

[ingo] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [10 days 20 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 17:45:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> old site:  www.miller-headspin.com
>

Hi Mike, went through the images from your old site. There's quite a few I don't
remember some of the later ones I do and then the there's "The Fish of '92".
Ahhhh

If you still can track them, you should date all your images. Not for the gaps
in my memory, but just to see the time line.

Cheers!

ingo

[Maetes] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems [10 days 20 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 17:35:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> What about these?
> https://hof.povray.org/pebbles.html

No sourcecode,
and "took 4.5 days to render"

:)

maybe 4.5 days was 20 years ago, but even a minute is to long for me
(movies?)


m

[Bald Eagle] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems [10 days 21 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 17:15:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

> I also looked for textures, which I didn't find right away.

What about these?
https://hof.povray.org/pebbles.html

[Bald Eagle] Re: Camera settings [10 days 21 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 17:10:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
> I probably didn't search properly, but I can't find the default value
> for the standard camera angle (perspective).

https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3C5d95e6c3%241%40news.povray.org%3E/

[Maetes] Re: Popularization of the POV-Ray program on Tik... [10 days 22 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 16:15:00 GMT

If you need free music, try this one.

https://freetouse.com/music

You have to try some tracks to find a good one, but some of them are really
good.
Have used one of them for my spacecraft-movie.
Somewhere you should mention the author and the website (in a description to the
clip), but I think thats no problem.

Ma

[Maetes] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [10 days 22 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 16:05:00 GMT

Hi Mike, welcome back.

I'm one of the new ones, only active since 2016.

Nice website, crazy good pictures.

I took a look a few days ago, there was a download section, from your workbench.
Quite a lot of things in it, great that you published it (at least briefly).

It's written for 3.8, but maybe I can still learn a bit for 3.7 (debian
repository-install).

Greetings from Cologne/Germany.

[Maetes] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems [10 days 22 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 16:00:00 GMT

I have little experience with Area Light so far, but maybe it's worth a try.
But the render time increases again.

I started with meshes because I found the rock generator and wanted to try it.
I would not have thought that you would see the triangles so well.

Here in the forum I found an isosurface asteroid and it actually looks quite
good, see picture.
Maybe I can improve it further, use it as an object in the foreground and
because of faster rendering time use the meshes for more distant objects.
https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3C449ebecf@news.povray.org%3E?mtop=10&moff=10

I also looked for textures, which I didn't find right away.
I came across this page that shows the built-in textures, very helpful.
https://povray.tashcorp.net/library/stones.inc/

This link
https://www.geocities.ws/evilsnack/index.htm#POVRAY
I have to take a closer look, looks like more training time.

Thanks for all the tips.

M

[jr] Re: Camera settings [10 days 22 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 15:40:00 GMT

hi,

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> I probably didn't search properly, but I can't find the default value
> for the standard camera angle (perspective).
>
> Where is it?

<wiki.povray.org/content/Reference:Camera>

~67.380.


regards, jr.

[kurtz le pirate] Camera settings [10 days 23 hours and 1 minute ago]

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 15:23:23 GMT

Hello,


I probably didn't search properly, but I can't find the default value 
for the standard camera angle (perspective).

Where is it?

Iin the mjh "scree.inc", the default angle is set to 67.380135
That's the correct value ?




Thanks.


-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [12 days 4 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Sun, 2 Aug 2026 09:47:40 GMT

On 01/08/2026 21:29, Mike Miller wrote:
> Hi guys,
> attached are 2 preliminary renderings of my pumphouse model. I've tweaked the
> design a bit and assigned some 'place-holder' materials before going too far.
> Next will be the upper bridge, stairs & railer, and lamps. ...have a great
> weekend,
> Mike
> 

Looks nice and accurate, materials also "in place",
looking forward to "to be continued" ).
-- 
YB

[Bald Eagle] Re: Rendering impostors [12 days 18 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Sat, 1 Aug 2026 20:05:00 GMT

ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:

> A third option is to just not add the objects to the scene that are not
> within the slice of the scene you want.

Yes, some sort of culling script.

Do a loop, grab the min_extent and max_extent of the object, see if the whole
object resides inside the "slice", and if not, then skip it.

- BE

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [12 days 19 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Sat, 1 Aug 2026 18:30:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 30/07/2026 01:04, Mike Miller wrote:
> > I attached my current working file. It has the gold metal texture. I'll probably
> > be creating a very 'distressed material' for this model in the end. I'll tackle
> > texturing once I have everything built.
>
> Thanks so much for this 'gold', I will put it into my materials
> collection.
> --
> YB

Hi guys,
attached are 2 preliminary renderings of my pumphouse model. I've tweaked the
design a bit and assigned some 'place-holder' materials before going too far.
Next will be the upper bridge, stairs & railer, and lamps. ...have a great
weekend,
Mike

[ingo] Re: Rendering impostors [12 days 20 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Sat, 1 Aug 2026 18:04:07 GMT

Thinking of it there may be an other way, that depends a bit on your 
scene versus the slice you want from it. Objects can have the options 
no-image, no-shadow, no-refection to hide it from the scene.

A third option is to just not add the objects to the scene that are not 
within the slice of the scene you want.

ingo

[fronk123] Re: Rendering impostors [12 days 21 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Sat, 1 Aug 2026 17:20:00 GMT

"ingo" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> "fronk123" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > Hi i'm a new User and i was wonderig if it was possible to render a scene and
> > then only show a certain depth range of the rendered scene.
>
> Yes, you can wrap the whole scene in a union{} and then difference or intersect
> that with two planes. The slice is our depth range. Although it may not look
> like you wish.
>
> unless you mean focal blur, that is a camera setting that takes some tweaking.
>
> ingo

thank you, what you said is a solution to what i want i think, gonna have to
experiment with that, when i figure out how it works

[ingo] Re: Rendering impostors [12 days 22 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Sat, 1 Aug 2026 15:40:00 GMT

"fronk123" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Hi i'm a new User and i was wonderig if it was possible to render a scene and
> then only show a certain depth range of the rendered scene.

Yes, you can wrap the whole scene in a union{} and then difference or intersect
that with two planes. The slice is our depth range. Although it may not look
like you wish.

unless you mean focal blur, that is a camera setting that takes some tweaking.

ingo

[fronk123] Rendering impostors [12 days 23 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Sat, 1 Aug 2026 15:15:00 GMT

Hi i'm a new User and i was wonderig if it was possible to render a scene and
then only show a certain depth range of the rendered scene.

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems [12 days 23 hours and 42 minutes ago]

Sat, 1 Aug 2026 14:43:03 GMT

On 31/07/2026 12:36, Bald Eagle wrote:
> kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
>> On 29/07/2026 13:33, Maetes wrote:
>>> ...
>>> Are there other ways to improve the mesh or other scripts to create it?
>>
>> By increasing the number of triangles and thus the accuracy ?
> 
> Yes, but as he stated in the sentence immediately prior:
> "I have already set the number of triangles very high, more is hardly possible."
> 

I read it too quickly and it was poorly translated. Sorry.




-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Bald Eagle] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems [14 days 3 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Fri, 31 Jul 2026 10:40:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> On 29/07/2026 13:33, Maetes wrote:
> > ...
> > Are there other ways to improve the mesh or other scripts to create it?
>
> By increasing the number of triangles and thus the accuracy ?

Yes, but as he stated in the sentence immediately prior:
"I have already set the number of triangles very high, more is hardly possible."

so it looks to me like he needs to move from a fixed geometry to an implicit or
interpolative one.

- BE

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems [14 days 4 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Fri, 31 Jul 2026 09:40:31 GMT

On 29/07/2026 13:33, Maetes wrote:
> ...
> ...
> Are there other ways to improve the mesh or other scripts to create it?


By increasing the number of triangles and thus the accuracy ?

Two sets of macros that can be used for this :
* The New (and Improved!) Surface Subdivision Suite
* The Catmull-Clark Surface Subdivision Suite


On John's website :
<https://www.geocities.ws/evilsnack/index.htm#POVRAY>





-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Bald Eagle] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems [15 days and 55 minutes ago]

Thu, 30 Jul 2026 13:30:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

> 1. Dark triangles
.....
> Are there other ways to improve the mesh or other scripts to create it?

What if you used an isosurface? Then you could do away with triangles completely
and have "infinite resolution".

> 2. Textures
> I've already played around with textures a bit, but I'm not completely
> satisfied.

I'd just start searching the forums for rocks, asteroids, meteors, and any other
sort of concrete, brick, mortar textures.
Be sure to add normals to your object, and don't underestimate how strongly
lighting affects how things appear.

- BE

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Animation with sine waves? [15 days 6 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Thu, 30 Jul 2026 08:13:44 GMT

On 29/07/2026 12:41, Bald Eagle wrote:
> "S I R ?" <fra### [at] jaliscoedumx> wrote:
>> kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> 
>>> // 50 degrees -> +/- 25 deg or something else, of course
>>> #declare Amplitude = 50;
>>> #declare HalfAmplitude = Amplitude*0.50;
> 
> You want the pendulum to swing over a certain amount on both sides.
> kurtz defines the included angle as "Amplitude" and then takes half of that as
> the amount it swings to either side.
> 
>>> Object to animate is "Object"
>>>
>>> object {
>>>     Object
> So now he places the Object in the scene, and to rotate it in the animation, he
> creates an equation using the clock variable.
> 
> if you point at your screen, your arm an finger are in the direction of the z
> axis.  So rotating around z rotates things in the plane of your screen.
> By how much?
> Well the max is "HalfAmlitude".
> And we want to go from 0 to HalfAmplitude to 0 to -HalfAmplitude to 0 to .....
> 
> A circle is 2*pi radians around in angular units. (tau = 2*pi)
> plotting sin on a unit circle goes from 0 to 1 to 0 to -1 to 0 to ....
> 
> So as the clock variable increases from 0 to 1, we take that and multiply it by
> tau.  That gives us a value that goes from 0 to tau.
> Taking the sin of that gives us a value that goes from 0 to 1 to 0 to -1 to 0 to
> .....
> then multiplying that by HalfAmplitude gives us a value that goes from 0 to
> HalfAmplitude to 0 to -HalfAmplitude to 0 to .....
> and of course we need a vector to pass to "rotate", and so we multiply by z
> 
>>>     rotate sin(clock*tau)*HalfAmplitude*z
>>>     }
>>>
>>> 'clock' from 0.0 to 1.0
> 


Perfect BE. I couldn't have said it better myself


-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Ilya Razmanov] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems [15 days 8 hours and 17 minutes ago]

Thu, 30 Jul 2026 06:07:25 GMT

On 29.07.2026 14:33, Maetes wrote:

> 2. Textures
> I've already played around with textures a bit, but I'm not completely
> satisfied.
> Does anyone have any textures for a similar use that they would like to share?
> 

I guess you can use Phobos and Deimos photos as some source for ideas. 
They are quite like asteroids but have more extensive portfolio.

In general, I suspect that slops and normals may disguise triangle 
flatness pretty well.

-- 
Ilyich the Toad
https://dnyarri.github.io/

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [15 days 16 hours and 1 minute ago]

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 22:24:00 GMT

On 30/07/2026 01:04, Mike Miller wrote:
> I attached my current working file. It has the gold metal texture. I'll probably
> be creating a very 'distressed material' for this model in the end. I'll tackle
> texturing once I have everything built.

Thanks so much for this 'gold', I will put it into my materials
collection.
--
YB

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [15 days 16 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 22:05:01 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 29/07/2026 21:34, Mike Miller wrote:
> > Very cool stuff YB. I checked out povlab.yesbird.online stuff. Well done on the
> > materials and viewer. That's all Java? I don't know a thing about WASM... just
> > checked it out.... I'd love to see your progress on that.
> >
>
> Thanks, Mike.
> This is my first attempt to make a POV closer to the modern
> world ). BTW, I've embedded your materials browser here, as I found it
> very useful:
> https://povlab.yesbird.online/?scene=materials/samples_default.pov
>
> WASM compiling can be painful and need a lot of effort to get a stable
> result. This is the reason I postponed it to the autumn, preferring to
> relax in the summer ).
>
> > I'd like to push a few more scenes into animations and dust of some really old
> > work - now that rendering times have really drop compared to 1990's.  :)
>
> Exactly !
>
> >
> > This pump house is going to take me a few weeks to model and another month of
> > landscape work if I had to guess. I'm going to model a lizard as a feature
> > foreground object and use the pump-house structure as a backdrop.
>
> Respect, you have a lot of patience (which I need) to make such a large
> scene. Lizard in industrial environment ? Sounds cool - looking forward
> to see it (sketch at least :)).
>
> >
> > I attached my current POV model / progress of the flywheel and mounts.
> > Most made with lathe or prisms with cubic or linear splines - depending on a
> > bevel or curve look.
>
> I found it very neat, especially "golden wheels" - excellent material,
> which can probably be used in jewelry rendering.
> --
> YB

Thanks. Yes, I need to work out a better sketch.
I attached my current working file. It has the gold metal texture. I'll probably
be creating a very 'distressed material' for this model in the end. I'll tackle
texturing once I have everything built.
Mike.

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [15 days 18 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 19:39:07 GMT

On 29/07/2026 21:34, Mike Miller wrote:
> Very cool stuff YB. I checked out povlab.yesbird.online stuff. Well done on the
> materials and viewer. That's all Java? I don't know a thing about WASM... just
> checked it out.... I'd love to see your progress on that.
> 

Thanks, Mike.
This is my first attempt to make a POV closer to the modern
world ). BTW, I've embedded your materials browser here, as I found it
very useful:
https://povlab.yesbird.online/?scene=materials/samples_default.pov

WASM compiling can be painful and need a lot of effort to get a stable
result. This is the reason I postponed it to the autumn, preferring to
relax in the summer ).

> I'd like to push a few more scenes into animations and dust of some really old
> work - now that rendering times have really drop compared to 1990's.  :)

Exactly !

> 
> This pump house is going to take me a few weeks to model and another month of
> landscape work if I had to guess. I'm going to model a lizard as a feature
> foreground object and use the pump-house structure as a backdrop.

Respect, you have a lot of patience (which I need) to make such a large
scene. Lizard in industrial environment ? Sounds cool - looking forward
to see it (sketch at least :)).

> 
> I attached my current POV model / progress of the flywheel and mounts.
> Most made with lathe or prisms with cubic or linear splines - depending on a
> bevel or curve look.

I found it very neat, especially "golden wheels" - excellent material,
which can probably be used in jewelry rendering.
-- 
YB

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [15 days 19 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 18:35:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 28/07/2026 00:52, Mike Miller wrote:
> > thanks, YB.
> > How have you been? What fun ideas have you been working on? Sorry, I need to
> > read through the threads.  ...any ways, cheers.
> >
>
> Hi, Mike.
> There are a lot of things I would like to do, and some of them
> POV-related. I moved to browser-based Javascript graphics (Three.js) and
> building the bridge between this technology and POV-Ray, first attempt
> is here: https://povlab.yesbird.online/
>
> Next project is based on POV-ray studio (online converter from popular
> formats to mesh2 https://povlab.yesbird.online/studio/) is a jewelry
> renderer (early beta now):
> https://jray.yesbird.online/
>
> All POV rendering is done on the server now, but I am thinking about
> pushing it into the browser with WASM. This is a serious challenge, so I
> need a time to prepare carefully to start, maybe in September ...
>
> BTW, here is my portfolio:
> https://yesbird.online/
>
> Hope your work on Pump House will be smooth and fast.
> What other plans do you have ?
> --
> YB

Very cool stuff YB. I checked out povlab.yesbird.online stuff. Well done on the
materials and viewer. That's all Java? I don't know a thing about WASM... just
checked it out.... I'd love to see your progress on that.

I'd like to push a few more scenes into animations and dust of some really old
work - now that rendering times have really drop compared to 1990's.  :)

This pump house is going to take me a few weeks to model and another month of
landscape work if I had to guess. I'm going to model a lizard as a feature
foreground object and use the pump-house structure as a backdrop.

I attached my current POV model / progress of the flywheel and mounts.
Most made with lathe or prisms with cubic or linear splines - depending on a
bevel or curve look.

Mike

[Alain Martel] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems [15 days 23 hours and 3 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 15:21:36 GMT

Le 2026-07-29 Ã  07:33, Maetes a Ã©critÂ :
> Hi Ladies
> 
> I'm currently trying to design an asteroid.
> 
> I created the mesh with the rock generator from John "Evil Snack", see website:
> https://www.geocities.ws/evilsnack/inc.htm
> 
> The result looks reasonably good, but improvements would be possible.
> Maybe one of you has some ideas.
> 
> 1. Dark triangles
> Especially in movies you can see that it is built up of triangles.
> First they are black, and less than a degree of rotation further they are
> bright.
> This may not be particularly noticeable in individual frames, but in movies it
> is annoying.
> I have already set the number of triangles very high, more is hardly possible.
> Are there other ways to improve the mesh or other scripts to create it?

Unavoidable when using meshes. Those dark/black triangles are just 
triangles that are physically facing away from the light, even if their 
normals are oriented toward the light.
Using an area_light with the area_illumination MAY help. Adjust the 
extent of the light until your results are acceptable. That area_light 
need to have the circular attribute. Be sure to use adaptive 0. Don't 
fear using something like 65x65, or more, for the number of elements. 
With adaptive 0, most of the time, only the corners will be evaluated.

> 
> 2. Textures
> I've already played around with textures a bit, but I'm not completely
> satisfied.
> Does anyone have any textures for a similar use that they would like to share?

As a lot of asteroids are really just big balls of gravel, some gravel 
based textures should be pretty realistic.

[Maetes] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems [16 days 2 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 11:45:00 GMT

and another

[Maetes] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems [16 days 2 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 11:40:00 GMT

Here one of the results

[Maetes] Asteroid - textures and problems [16 days 2 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 11:35:00 GMT

Hi Ladies

I'm currently trying to design an asteroid.

I created the mesh with the rock generator from John "Evil Snack", see website:
https://www.geocities.ws/evilsnack/inc.htm

The result looks reasonably good, but improvements would be possible.
Maybe one of you has some ideas.

1. Dark triangles
Especially in movies you can see that it is built up of triangles.
First they are black, and less than a degree of rotation further they are
bright.
This may not be particularly noticeable in individual frames, but in movies it
is annoying.
I have already set the number of triangles very high, more is hardly possible.
Are there other ways to improve the mesh or other scripts to create it?

2. Textures
I've already played around with textures a bit, but I'm not completely
satisfied.
Does anyone have any textures for a similar use that they would like to share?

If the final result is presentable, I will of course publish it on my website
sooner or later.
Then others would also benefit from your ideas.

A short film is available here:
https://www.maetes.com/stuff/povray_forum_26_asteroid.mp4
8.4 MB, 24 seconds, 30 fps

Attached is a zip with my test environment, cropped to the bare minimum.
It can be executed via terminal with:
povray +Ies_generator_rock_examples_nano.pov +Otest/es_rock_nano_00.png +w1920
+h1080 -GR +A

Have a nice day,
Ma

[Bald Eagle] Re: Animation with sine waves? [16 days 3 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 10:45:00 GMT

"S I R ?" <fra### [at] jaliscoedumx> wrote:
> kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:

> > // 50 degrees -> +/- 25 deg or something else, of course
> > #declare Amplitude = 50;
> > #declare HalfAmplitude = Amplitude*0.50;

You want the pendulum to swing over a certain amount on both sides.
kurtz defines the included angle as "Amplitude" and then takes half of that as
the amount it swings to either side.

> > Object to animate is "Object"
> >
> > object {
> >    Object
So now he places the Object in the scene, and to rotate it in the animation, he
creates an equation using the clock variable.

if you point at your screen, your arm an finger are in the direction of the z
axis.  So rotating around z rotates things in the plane of your screen.
By how much?
Well the max is "HalfAmlitude".
And we want to go from 0 to HalfAmplitude to 0 to -HalfAmplitude to 0 to .....

A circle is 2*pi radians around in angular units. (tau = 2*pi)
plotting sin on a unit circle goes from 0 to 1 to 0 to -1 to 0 to ....

So as the clock variable increases from 0 to 1, we take that and multiply it by
tau.  That gives us a value that goes from 0 to tau.
Taking the sin of that gives us a value that goes from 0 to 1 to 0 to -1 to 0 to
.....
then multiplying that by HalfAmplitude gives us a value that goes from 0 to
HalfAmplitude to 0 to -HalfAmplitude to 0 to .....
and of course we need a vector to pass to "rotate", and so we multiply by z

> >    rotate sin(clock*tau)*HalfAmplitude*z
> >    }
> >
> > 'clock' from 0.0 to 1.0

[S I R ?] Re: Animation with sine waves? [16 days 10 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 03:40:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> On 23/07/2026 06:30, Sir wrote:
> >
> > Hello POV-Ray Users!
> >
> > So, i was rendering an animation of a metronome whose pendulum swings back and
> > forth between a specific angle and its negative.
> >
>
> Hello 'Sir Francisco',
>
> I think you're making things harder on yourself....
>
>
> For exemple :
>
> // 50 degrees -> +/- 25 deg or something else, of course
> #declare Amplitude = 50;
> #declare HalfAmplitude = Amplitude*0.50;
>
>
> Object to animate is "Object"
>
> object {
>    Object
>    rotate sin(clock*tau)*HalfAmplitude*z
>    }
>
> 'clock' from 0.0 to 1.0
>
>
> In this exemple, oscillations is around z-axis.
>
> I hope this helps...
>
>
>
>
> --
> kurtz le pirate
> compagnie de la banquise

Thanks! i tried it and it worked!
If you don't mind, could you explain to me how it works?

- S I R ?

[S I R ?] Re: Animation with sine waves? [16 days 10 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 03:30:00 GMT

"ingo" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> "Sir" <fra### [at] jaliscoedumx> wrote:
>
> > #declare actangle = maxangle * sin( clock * 4 ) * cos( clock * 4 );
> > [...]
> >     rotate <0,0,clock*actangle>
>
> Didn't analyse the full thing but noticed the clock as well in actangle as in
> rotate again. So you animate the animation, removing the clock from rotate might
> do the trick?
>
> ingo

Sorry, i didn't knew what i was doing

- S I R ?

[S I R ?] Re: Animation with sine waves? [16 days 11 hours ago]

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 03:25:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "ingo" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > "Sir" <fra### [at] jaliscoedumx> wrote:
> >
> > > #declare actangle = maxangle * sin( clock * 4 ) * cos( clock * 4 );
> > > [...]
> > >     rotate <0,0,clock*actangle>
> >
> > Didn't analyse the full thing but noticed the clock as well in actangle as in
> > rotate again. So you animate the animation, removing the clock from rotate might
> > do the trick?
> >
> > ingo
>
> Also, why is sin getting multiplied by cos?
> I would just use cos to oscillate between 1 and -1.
>
> - BE

I don't really know why, i just messed up with something i don't even
know about :(

Also, thanks for your time and patience!

- S I R ?

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [17 days 15 hours and 57 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 22:28:02 GMT

On 28/07/2026 00:52, Mike Miller wrote:
> thanks, YB.
> How have you been? What fun ideas have you been working on? Sorry, I need to
> read through the threads.  ...any ways, cheers.
> 

Hi, Mike.
There are a lot of things I would like to do, and some of them
POV-related. I moved to browser-based Javascript graphics (Three.js) and
building the bridge between this technology and POV-Ray, first attempt
is here: https://povlab.yesbird.online/

Next project is based on POV-ray studio (online converter from popular
formats to mesh2 https://povlab.yesbird.online/studio/) is a jewelry
renderer (early beta now):
https://jray.yesbird.online/

All POV rendering is done on the server now, but I am thinking about
pushing it into the browser with WASM. This is a serious challenge, so I
need a time to prepare carefully to start, maybe in September ...

BTW, here is my portfolio:
https://yesbird.online/

Hope your work on Pump House will be smooth and fast.
What other plans do you have ?
--
YB

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [17 days 16 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 21:55:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 27/07/2026 15:28, Mike Miller wrote:
> > As I work through the POV scene building, I'll keep posting screen grabs on my
> > web page. I'm currently exporting point position 'profiles' from Blender for POV
> > lathes.
>
> Looking forward to see them, good luck !
> --
> YB

thanks, YB.
How have you been? What fun ideas have you been working on? Sorry, I need to
read through the threads.  ...any ways, cheers.

[Cossack ] Re: Termux !!! [18 days and 45 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 13:40:00 GMT

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> ~/POV_Projects_SD/balcony $ uberpov -version
> uberpov: cannot open the system configuration file
> /usr/local/etc/uberpov/1.37/uberpov.conf: No such file or directory
> UberPOV 1.37.1.0
>
> This is an unofficial version compiled by:
>  Termux User
> Neither the POV-Ray Team(tm) nor the UberPOV maintainers are responsible for
> supporting this version.
>
> Copyright 1991-2015 Persistence of Vision Raytracer Pty. Ltd.
> This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
> warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
>
> Built-in features:
>   I/O restrictions:          enabled
>   X Window display:          disabled
>   Supported image formats:   gif tga iff ppm pgm hdr png jpeg tiff
>   Unsupported image formats: openexr
>
> Compilation settings:
>   Build architecture:  armv8l-unknown-linux-androideabi
>   Built/Optimized for: armv8l-unknown-linux-androideabi
>   Compiler vendor:     gnu
>   Compiler version:    clang++ 21.1.8
>   Compiler flags:      -pipe -Wno-multichar -Wno-write-strings -O3 -ffast-math
> -std=c++17
> ~/POV_Projects_SD/balcony $ povray -version
> POV-Ray 3.8.0-beta.2.unofficial
>
> This is an unofficial version compiled by:
>  Termux
>  The POV-Ray Team is not responsible for supporting this version.
>
> Copyright 1991-2021 Persistence of Vision Raytracer Pty. Ltd.
> This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
> warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
>
> Built-in features:
>   I/O restrictions:          enabled
>   X Window display:          disabled
>   Supported image formats:   gif tga iff ppm pgm hdr png jpeg tiff openexr
>   Unsupported image formats: -
>
> Compilation settings:
>   Build architecture:  x86_64-pc-linux-gnu
>   Built/Optimized for: arm-unknown-linux-androideabi
>   Compiler vendor:     clang
>   Compiler version:    arm-linux-androideabi-clang++ 21.0.0
>   Compiler flags:      -march=armv7-a -mfpu=neon -mfloat-abi=softfp -mthumb
> -fstack-protector-strong -Oz -std=c++14 -pthread
> ~/POV_Projects_SD/balcony $ uberpov -version
> uberpov: cannot open the system configuration file
> /usr/local/etc/uberpov/1.37/uberpov.conf: No such file or directory
> ....
> ~/POV_Projects_SD/balcony $
>
> The Holy Trinity in one room !!!!

Oops, forgot this one — NOW the trinity is complete >:]] !!!!!"
POV_Projects_SD/balcony $ megapov -version
megapov: cannot open the system configuration file
/usr/local/etc/megapov/1.2.1/povray.conf: No such file or directory
megapov: cannot open the user configuration file
/data/data/com.termux/files/home/.megapov/1.2.1/povray.conf: No such file or
directory
megapov: I/O restrictions are disabled.
Persistence of Vision(tm) Ray Tracer Version MegaPOV 1.2.1/ based on Pov-RAY
 3.6.1 (clang++ @ armv8l-unknown-linux-gnu)
This is an unofficial version compiled by:
 Termux User
 The POV-Ray Team(tm) is not responsible for supporting this version.
POV-Ray is based on DKBTrace 2.12 by David K. Buck & Aaron A. Collins
Copyright 1991-2003 Persistence of Vision Team
Copyright 2003-2004 Persistence of Vision Raytracer Pty. Ltd.

Primary POV-Ray 3.5/3.6 Developers: (Alphabetically)
  Chris Cason         Thorsten Froehlich  Nathan Kopp         Ron Parker

Contributing Authors: (Alphabetically)
  Steve Anger         Eric Barish         Dieter Bayer        Steve A. Bennett
  David K. Buck       Nicolas Calimet     Aaron A. Collins    Chris Dailey
  Steve Demlow        Andreas Dilger      Alexander Enzmann   Dan Farmer
  Mark Gordon         Christoph Hormann   Mike Hough          Chris Huff
  Kari Kivisalo       Lutz Kretzschmar    Jochen Lippert      Pascal Massimino
  Jim McElhiney       Douglas Muir        Juha Nieminen       Bill Pulver
  Eduard Schwan       Wlodzimierz Skiba   Robert Skinner      Yvo Smellenbergh
  Zsolt Szalavari     Scott Taylor        Massimo Valentini   Timothy Wegner
  Drew Wells          Chris Young

MegaPOV Contributing Authors: (Alphabetically)
  Christophe Bouffartigue  Thorsten Froehlich       Christoph Hormann
  Chris Huff               Jurjen                   Kari Kivisalo
  Nathan Kopp              Vahur Krouverk           William Pokorny
  Micha Riser              Wlodzimierz Skiba        Rene Smellenbergh
  Yvo Smellenbergh         Massimo Valentini        Thomas Willhalm

Other contributors are listed in the documentation.

Support libraries used by POV-Ray:
  ZLib 1.3.2, Copyright 1995-1998 Jean-loup Gailly and Mark Adler
  LibPNG 1.6.58, Copyright 1998-2002 Glenn Randers-Pehrson
  LibJPEG 8, Copyright 1998 Thomas G. Lane
  LibTIFF 4.7.2, Copyright 1988-1997 Sam Leffler, 1991-1997 SGI
Redirecting Options
  All Streams to console..........On
  Debug Stream to console.........On
  Fatal Stream to console.........On
  Render Stream to console........On
  Statistics Stream to console....On
  Warning Stream to console.......On
Parsing Options
  Input file: OBJECT.POV (compatible to version 3.61)
  Remove bounds........On
  Split unions.........Off
  Library paths:
    /data/data/com.termux/files/home/povray-3.6.1/include
Output Options
  Image resolution 100 by 100 (rows 1 to 100, columns 1 to 100).
  Output file: /storage/0000-0000/POV_Projects/balcony/OBJECT.png, 24 bpp PNG
  Graphic display......Off
  Mosaic preview.......Off
  CPU usage histogram..Off
  Continued trace......Off
Tracing Options
  Quality:  9
  Bounding boxes.......On   Bounding threshold: 25
  Light Buffer.........On
  Vista Buffer.........On   Draw Vista Buffer....Off
  Antialiasing.........Off
  Clock value:    0.000  (Animation off)

  0:00:00 Parsing
Possible Scene File Parser Initialization Error: Could not find file
 'OBJECT.POV'
Scene File Parser Initialization Error: Cannot open input file.
Total Scene Processing Times
  Parse Time:    0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
  Photon Time:   0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
  Cloth Time:    0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
  Mechsim Time:  0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
  Render Time:   0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
  Postpr. Time:  0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
  Total Time:    0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
~/POV_Projects_SD/balcony $

[Cossack ] Termux !!! [18 days 1 hour and 45 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 12:40:00 GMT

~/POV_Projects_SD/balcony $ uberpov -version
uberpov: cannot open the system configuration file
/usr/local/etc/uberpov/1.37/uberpov.conf: No such file or directory
UberPOV 1.37.1.0

This is an unofficial version compiled by:
 Termux User
Neither the POV-Ray Team(tm) nor the UberPOV maintainers are responsible for
supporting this version.

Copyright 1991-2015 Persistence of Vision Raytracer Pty. Ltd.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

Built-in features:
  I/O restrictions:          enabled
  X Window display:          disabled
  Supported image formats:   gif tga iff ppm pgm hdr png jpeg tiff
  Unsupported image formats: openexr

Compilation settings:
  Build architecture:  armv8l-unknown-linux-androideabi
  Built/Optimized for: armv8l-unknown-linux-androideabi
  Compiler vendor:     gnu
  Compiler version:    clang++ 21.1.8
  Compiler flags:      -pipe -Wno-multichar -Wno-write-strings -O3 -ffast-math
-std=c++17
~/POV_Projects_SD/balcony $ povray -version
POV-Ray 3.8.0-beta.2.unofficial

This is an unofficial version compiled by:
 Termux
 The POV-Ray Team is not responsible for supporting this version.

Copyright 1991-2021 Persistence of Vision Raytracer Pty. Ltd.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

Built-in features:
  I/O restrictions:          enabled
  X Window display:          disabled
  Supported image formats:   gif tga iff ppm pgm hdr png jpeg tiff openexr
  Unsupported image formats: -

Compilation settings:
  Build architecture:  x86_64-pc-linux-gnu
  Built/Optimized for: arm-unknown-linux-androideabi
  Compiler vendor:     clang
  Compiler version:    arm-linux-androideabi-clang++ 21.0.0
  Compiler flags:      -march=armv7-a -mfpu=neon -mfloat-abi=softfp -mthumb
-fstack-protector-strong -Oz -std=c++14 -pthread
~/POV_Projects_SD/balcony $ uberpov -version
uberpov: cannot open the system configuration file
/usr/local/etc/uberpov/1.37/uberpov.conf: No such file or directory
....
~/POV_Projects_SD/balcony $

The Holy Trinity in one room !!!!

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [18 days 1 hour and 49 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 12:36:08 GMT

On 27/07/2026 15:28, Mike Miller wrote:
> As I work through the POV scene building, I'll keep posting screen grabs on my
> web page. I'm currently exporting point position 'profiles' from Blender for POV
> lathes.

Looking forward to see them, good luck !
--
YB

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [18 days 1 hour and 55 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 12:30:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 27/07/2026 14:14, Mike Miller wrote:
> > It is. If you can get the model to behave and render correctly out of these Bim
> > products. Coincidental faces or shading problem showed their ugly head in
> > animation.
> > oopps...
> > I thought I attached this.
>
>  From PDF I see that the scene is large, maybe it makes sense to get
> something less for the start ?
>
> To prepare scene for online and  test how it will work this editor can
> help a lot: https://threejs.org/editor/
> --
> YB

Thanks. That Petmin project was from 2000-2001. I heard they filed for
bankruptcy. I wonder if GPD got paid. I did. :) ...perks of not being the owner.
haha

As I work through the POV scene building, I'll keep posting screen grabs on my
web page. I'm currently exporting point position 'profiles' from Blender for POV
lathes.
Mike

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [18 days 2 hours and 52 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 11:33:13 GMT

On 27/07/2026 14:14, Mike Miller wrote:
> It is. If you can get the model to behave and render correctly out of these Bim
> products. Coincidental faces or shading problem showed their ugly head in
> animation.
> oopps...
> I thought I attached this.

 From PDF I see that the scene is large, maybe it makes sense to get
something less for the start ?

To prepare scene for online and  test how it will work this editor can
help a lot: https://threejs.org/editor/
--
YB

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [18 days 3 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 11:15:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 27/07/2026 04:35, Mike Miller wrote:
> > Thanks, YB. Yeah, I've work on many projects that included modeling major
> > piping, pumps, and conduit. I like the look of the technical complexity, even
> > though I have little idea how it works. :) Attached is a project that I worked
> > on for months for Pitman Pigiron. I need to find my interior renderings of the
> > facility. Thes model is more complex than the exterior. Built in Naviworks
> > before importing to Revit & Max for site work. Day & night animations in Lumion
> > Mike
>
> I see you have a rich background and a large archive of interesting
> geometry. What about publishing them online in 3D with my following
> tools:
>
> https://povlab.yesbird.online/studio/
> https://galleries.yesbird.online/vr/
>
> Guess it will be interesting to walk through pumps and pipes in VR ).
> --
> YB

It is. If you can get the model to behave and render correctly out of these Bim
products. Coincidental faces or shading problem showed their ugly head in
animation.
oopps...
I thought I attached this.

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [18 days 3 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 10:47:54 GMT

On 27/07/2026 04:35, Mike Miller wrote:
> Thanks, YB. Yeah, I've work on many projects that included modeling major
> piping, pumps, and conduit. I like the look of the technical complexity, even
> though I have little idea how it works. :) Attached is a project that I worked
> on for months for Pitman Pigiron. I need to find my interior renderings of the
> facility. Thes model is more complex than the exterior. Built in Naviworks
> before importing to Revit & Max for site work. Day & night animations in Lumion
> Mike

I see you have a rich background and a large archive of interesting
geometry. What about publishing them online in 3D with my following
tools:

https://povlab.yesbird.online/studio/
https://galleries.yesbird.online/vr/

Guess it will be interesting to walk through pumps and pipes in VR ).
--
YB

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [18 days 12 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 01:40:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 26/07/2026 18:57, Mike Miller wrote:
> >
> > I've added some progress images to my Pump House page and a bullet list of
> > processes. I was able to get a temp license for Revit and extracted the CAD and
> > 3D models I wanted before starting the POV model. I'll start on the main
> > flywheel and mounts first and post progress as I go.
> > miller
>
> Hi, Mike!
> Glad to see (read) you here again after a long break. Your new site
> looks neat and elegant. Pump House is also exiting (I like industrial
> environment), especially rendered with Lumion which make it even more
> impressive.
>
> Looking forward for POV version - good luck with this work !
> --
> YB

Thanks, YB. Yeah, I've work on many projects that included modeling major
piping, pumps, and conduit. I like the look of the technical complexity, even
though I have little idea how it works. :) Attached is a project that I worked
on for months for Pitman Pigiron. I need to find my interior renderings of the
facility. Thes model is more complex than the exterior. Built in Naviworks
before importing to Revit & Max for site work. Day & night animations in Lumion
Mike

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [18 days 18 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Sun, 26 Jul 2026 19:25:25 GMT

On 26/07/2026 18:57, Mike Miller wrote:
> 
> I've added some progress images to my Pump House page and a bullet list of
> processes. I was able to get a temp license for Revit and extracted the CAD and
> 3D models I wanted before starting the POV model. I'll start on the main
> flywheel and mounts first and post progress as I go.
> miller

Hi, Mike!
Glad to see (read) you here again after a long break. Your new site
looks neat and elegant. Pump House is also exiting (I like industrial
environment), especially rendered with Lumion which make it even more
impressive.

Looking forward for POV version - good luck with this work !
--
YB

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [18 days 22 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Sun, 26 Jul 2026 16:00:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> > "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks BE.
> > Thank _you_, Mike.
> > It's been great see all of the sketches, development, WIPs, and renders.
> >
> > > I'll set up a page on my website for this current project 'pump house' and post
> > > here with any news or updates. I found my original concept sketches and the
> > > Collada/Lumion files. I'll take some screen grabs of this model and post along
> > > with my sketches and images I gathered for reference & inspiration. I always
> > > pull images and sketch* what I can before I get too far into modeling. I built
> > > the first model in Revit and exported it to Unity and Lumion for animations and
> > > visuals.
> >
> > Yes.  I think that "storyboarding" or flowcharting how you go from initial idea
> > to final render would do much to dispel the "magic" of how such final renders
> > come into being.
> >
> > You don't just open up a text editor and start typing out SDL.
> > (Well, _I_ do a lot of times . . .)
> > Showing all of the sketches and modelers and conversion utilities, and 3rd party
> > software that gets used in preparation for a final POV-Ray render, and then
> > maybe even post-render processing would be a master class in what you do so
> > well.
> >
> > > .... I'm also thinking
> > > about camera path animations and how to break a scene down into manageable
> > > parts.
> >
> > Yeah - that's always another layer of challenges which have their own solutions.
> >
> > - BE
>
> Thanks, BE
> I just posted some concept sketches for this POV piece along with images of my
> past models to my web. I'll do have a 'plan of attack' to make this happen in
> POV and will put a bullet-list together.
> miller

I've added some progress images to my Pump House page and a bullet list of
processes. I was able to get a temp license for Revit and extracted the CAD and
3D models I wanted before starting the POV model. I'll start on the main
flywheel and mounts first and post progress as I go.
miller

[jr] Re: Returning to POV-Ray [19 days 23 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Sat, 25 Jul 2026 15:15:00 GMT

hi,

"Macca" <almac45@gmail,com> wrote:
> ...
> Hi JC. I'm going back to around 2012.
> But someone else has replied telling me where is it.
> I had been looking for it in the menu.

great, and thanks.


@KlP cheers.


regards, jr.

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Animation with sine waves? [20 days 4 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Sat, 25 Jul 2026 09:53:25 GMT

On 23/07/2026 06:30, Sir wrote:
> 
> Hello POV-Ray Users!
> 
> So, i was rendering an animation of a metronome whose pendulum swings back and
> forth between a specific angle and its negative.
> 

Hello 'Sir Francisco',

I think you're making things harder on yourself....


For exemple :

// 50 degrees -> +/- 25 deg or something else, of course
#declare Amplitude = 50;
#declare HalfAmplitude = Amplitude*0.50;


Object to animate is "Object"

object {
   Object
   rotate sin(clock*tau)*HalfAmplitude*z
   }

'clock' from 0.0 to 1.0


In this exemple, oscillations is around z-axis.

I hope this helps...




-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [20 days 15 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 23:10:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> > Thanks BE.
> Thank _you_, Mike.
> It's been great see all of the sketches, development, WIPs, and renders.
>
> > I'll set up a page on my website for this current project 'pump house' and post
> > here with any news or updates. I found my original concept sketches and the
> > Collada/Lumion files. I'll take some screen grabs of this model and post along
> > with my sketches and images I gathered for reference & inspiration. I always
> > pull images and sketch* what I can before I get too far into modeling. I built
> > the first model in Revit and exported it to Unity and Lumion for animations and
> > visuals.
>
> Yes.  I think that "storyboarding" or flowcharting how you go from initial idea
> to final render would do much to dispel the "magic" of how such final renders
> come into being.
>
> You don't just open up a text editor and start typing out SDL.
> (Well, _I_ do a lot of times . . .)
> Showing all of the sketches and modelers and conversion utilities, and 3rd party
> software that gets used in preparation for a final POV-Ray render, and then
> maybe even post-render processing would be a master class in what you do so
> well.
>
> > .... I'm also thinking
> > about camera path animations and how to break a scene down into manageable
> > parts.
>
> Yeah - that's always another layer of challenges which have their own solutions.
>
> - BE

Thanks, BE
I just posted some concept sketches for this POV piece along with images of my
past models to my web. I'll do have a 'plan of attack' to make this happen in
POV and will put a bullet-list together.
miller

[Macca] Re: Returning to POV-Ray [20 days 16 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 21:30:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> On 24/07/2026 16:19, jr wrote:
> > hi,
> >
> > "Macca" <almac45@gmail,com> wrote:
> >> Hello all, I am returning to Pov-Ray after finding a lot of my old Pov-ray files
> >> on a CD.
> >
> > :-)
> >
> >
> >> I've downloaded the newest one to try on my Windows 10 PC.
> >> I have been looking through the web site and a lot of things have changed.
> >> I notice in the "Hall of Fame", all the videos from the monthly competition are
> >> no longer there. I enjoyed watching them and was looking for to seeing them.
> >> Are they still around somewhere?
> >
> > I cannot remember there being links to videos on the hof (but I am a relative
> > "newbie" :-)), from when (approx) is your memory ?
> >
> >
> > regards, jr.
> >
>
>
> Maybe Macca is referring to the IRTC with "Sill image" and "Animation" ?
> The archive is here : <https://www.irtc.org/>
>
>
>
>
> --
> kurtz le pirate
> compagnie de la banquise


Thank you Kurtz le pirate.

I had been searching using the menu options and could not find it.
Thanks for the link.

Cheers, Macca

[Macca] Re: Returning to POV-Ray [20 days 16 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 21:30:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Macca" <almac45@gmail,com> wrote:
> > Hello all, I am returning to Pov-Ray after finding a lot of my old Pov-ray files
> > on a CD.
>
> :-)
>
>
> > I've downloaded the newest one to try on my Windows 10 PC.
> > I have been looking through the web site and a lot of things have changed.
> > I notice in the "Hall of Fame", all the videos from the monthly competition are
> > no longer there. I enjoyed watching them and was looking for to seeing them.
> > Are they still around somewhere?
>
> I cannot remember there being links to videos on the hof (but I am a relative
> "newbie" :-)), from when (approx) is your memory ?
>
>
> regards, jr.

Hi JC. I'm going back to around 2012.
But someone else has replied telling me where is it.
I had been looking for it in the menu.

Cheers Macca

[Bald Eagle] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [20 days 20 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 17:45:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> Thanks BE.
Thank _you_, Mike.
It's been great see all of the sketches, development, WIPs, and renders.

> I'll set up a page on my website for this current project 'pump house' and post
> here with any news or updates. I found my original concept sketches and the
> Collada/Lumion files. I'll take some screen grabs of this model and post along
> with my sketches and images I gathered for reference & inspiration. I always
> pull images and sketch* what I can before I get too far into modeling. I built
> the first model in Revit and exported it to Unity and Lumion for animations and
> visuals.

Yes.  I think that "storyboarding" or flowcharting how you go from initial idea
to final render would do much to dispel the "magic" of how such final renders
come into being.

You don't just open up a text editor and start typing out SDL.
(Well, _I_ do a lot of times . . .)
Showing all of the sketches and modelers and conversion utilities, and 3rd party
software that gets used in preparation for a final POV-Ray render, and then
maybe even post-render processing would be a master class in what you do so
well.

> .... I'm also thinking
> about camera path animations and how to break a scene down into manageable
> parts.

Yeah - that's always another layer of challenges which have their own solutions.

- BE

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Returning to POV-Ray [20 days 22 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 15:38:17 GMT

On 24/07/2026 16:19, jr wrote:
> hi,
> 
> "Macca" <almac45@gmail,com> wrote:
>> Hello all, I am returning to Pov-Ray after finding a lot of my old Pov-ray files
>> on a CD.
> 
> :-)
> 
> 
>> I've downloaded the newest one to try on my Windows 10 PC.
>> I have been looking through the web site and a lot of things have changed.
>> I notice in the "Hall of Fame", all the videos from the monthly competition are
>> no longer there. I enjoyed watching them and was looking for to seeing them.
>> Are they still around somewhere?
> 
> I cannot remember there being links to videos on the hof (but I am a relative
> "newbie" :-)), from when (approx) is your memory ?
> 
> 
> regards, jr.
> 


Maybe Macca is referring to the IRTC with "Sill image" and "Animation" ?
The archive is here : <https://www.irtc.org/>




-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[jr] Re: Returning to POV-Ray [21 days and 5 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 14:20:00 GMT

hi,

"Macca" <almac45@gmail,com> wrote:
> Hello all, I am returning to Pov-Ray after finding a lot of my old Pov-ray files
> on a CD.

:-)


> I've downloaded the newest one to try on my Windows 10 PC.
> I have been looking through the web site and a lot of things have changed.
> I notice in the "Hall of Fame", all the videos from the monthly competition are
> no longer there. I enjoyed watching them and was looking for to seeing them.
> Are they still around somewhere?

I cannot remember there being links to videos on the hof (but I am a relative
"newbie" :-)), from when (approx) is your memory ?


regards, jr.

[jr] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [21 days and 10 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 14:15:00 GMT

hi,

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> It's been a while ... I hope all is well with everyone.
>
> I took a break from most of my computer/graphic work to 'work the farm', fish
> and relax. Recently thought, I've have had the itch to get back into some POV
> rendering. I just started animating my old 'Nest' scene, which has recently
> become more of a 'test' scene for writing some visualizing tools.
>
> I'm currently working on a few ideas to help speed my POV scene building and
> have started a new web site to post and archive my current work and code. I'm
> working in a 'project tree' directory structure that allows me to jump around to
> various render-able asset libraries (materials, images, color_maps, objects,
> etc.).
> There are also a few utilities I've coded to help the process that I've also
> posted.
>
> new site:   www.miller-raytracer.com

nice site, although my "old eyes" struggled with the contrast, in places.
thanks.


regards, jr.

[jr] Re: pls make a app... [21 days and 15 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 14:10:00 GMT

hi,

"" wrote:
> yeah... i know... idk if my laptop having a bug or something. i just tried it
> again but when i move object, it doesn't move. idk if i can solve this (im a
> begineer)

the screenshot showed nothing "going wrong", only warnings.  as mentioned
before, a cut-down version of your scene, or a different, simple scene
illustrating the problem, is needed.

regards, jr.

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [21 days and 45 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 13:40:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> > BE, did you mean post stuff in this .general thread, or somewhere else?
>
> You could do it here, where I think having your skill, creativity, experience,
> and expertise archived would be a fantastic resource for people who really want
> to learn how to achieve more professional looking results in their renders.
>
> Or you could maintain a sort of blog on your site.
>
> Or cross-post everything so that it's in both places.   Because - digital things
> disappear sometimes.
>
> - BE

Thanks BE.
I'll set up a page on my website for this current project 'pump house' and post
here with any news or updates. I found my original concept sketches and the
Collada/Lumion files. I'll take some screen grabs of this model and post along
with my sketches and images I gathered for reference & inspiration. I always
pull images and sketch* what I can before I get too far into modeling. I built
the first model in Revit and exported it to Unity and Lumion for animations and
visuals.

* I usually have a 'final' image or 2 in mind that I'll rough out in pencil, but
my drawing skills are diminishing with age - so more like doodles. :) Now that I
have a few CPU's that can render frames at a decent rate, I'm also thinking
about camera path animations and how to break a scene down into manageable
parts.

Mike

[Macca] Returning to POV-Ray [21 days 8 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 05:50:00 GMT

Hello all, I am returning to Pov-Ray after finding a lot of my old Pov-ray files
on a CD.
I've downloaded the newest one to try on my Windows 10 PC.
I have been looking through the web site and a lot of things have changed.
I notice in the "Hall of Fame", all the videos from the monthly competition are
no longer there. I enjoyed watching them and was looking for to seeing them.
Are they still around somewhere?

[Bald Eagle] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [21 days 12 hours ago]

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 02:25:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> BE, did you mean post stuff in this .general thread, or somewhere else?

You could do it here, where I think having your skill, creativity, experience,
and expertise archived would be a fantastic resource for people who really want
to learn how to achieve more professional looking results in their renders.

Or you could maintain a sort of blog on your site.

Or cross-post everything so that it's in both places.   Because - digital things
disappear sometimes.

- BE

[Mike Miller] Re: POV-Ray Origins [21 days 23 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Thu, 23 Jul 2026 14:35:00 GMT

David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
> Hi everyone.  David (Kirk) Buck here.  I'm the original author of
> DKBTrace and POV-Ray.
>
> It's now been about 40 years since I wrote DKBTrace.  It seems like
> forever ago, but I can still remember the thrill of generating (very
> slowly) 3D images of scenes I modeled with a text file using software I
> wrote myself.
>
> I check this forum periodically, but mostly I just lurk to be honest and
> check out what people are doing.  I was about 24 years old when I first
> wrote DKBTrace. I'll soon be turning 64 years old and I'm aiming at
> retiring soon.
>
> I've always been interested in spreading the joy of programming and
> using computers in a creative way.  DKBTrace was one of many projects
> I've worked on simply for the joy of coding.  Interestingly, when I
> released DKBTrace, I thought I was done with it and was releasing it to
> allow others to have fun as well.  It seems that the fun has been
> continuing for the past 40 years.
>
> I'm going to commit to checking this newsgroup more frequently for a
> while and responding to posts.  If you have any questions or comments
> I'll try to respond as quickly as I can.
>
> David Buck

Thank you, David, for DKBTrace, POV and your support that follows. It sure
changed my 3D career path in the early 90's. It allowed me to produce art in a
new and fantastic way. I used POV early on to produce renders for Columbus
architects, which eventually lead to becoming a design architect and using 3D
extensively for presenting concepts to my clients. POV remains dear to my heart.

Congrats on turning 64 and retirement! I'll be turning 68 myself - time does
fly. I'm just get back to some new POV work and will try to post more often.
God Bless,
Mike.

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [22 days and 55 minutes ago]

Thu, 23 Jul 2026 13:30:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> > I'm currently working on a few ideas to help speed my POV scene building and
> > have started a new web site to post and archive my current work and code. I'm
> > working in a 'project tree' directory structure that allows me to jump around to
> > various render-able asset libraries (materials, images, color_maps, objects,
> > etc.).
> > There are also a few utilities I've coded to help the process that I've also
> > posted.
>
> Hi Mike, and welcome back!
>
> I like the new site, and the visuals are stunning as usual.  :)
>
> I'm sure that you have a vast amount of knowledge about what makes things "look
> good" - from the fundamental geometric aspects of structure and "smoothness", to
> scene composition, lighting, and of course textures, normals, and finishes.
>
> It would be really nice, and educational, if you could just post things here and
> there about what was going through your head at the outset, and the key things
> that you ensured were present to get the desired effects in the render.
>
> "I _could_ have done it this way, but that would take too long, so I ...."
> "I wanted to make this look [wet][powdery][translucent][hard & shiny][soft &
> leathery] ... and so a texture like that requires at the minimum ...."
> "The tentacle needs to look smooth and flowing, without any kinks, so I used a
> [type] spline ..."
> "Since I'm doing this in POV-Ray, I needed to take the structure of the SDL and
> parsing into account.  [This] needed to be parameterized. [That] needed to
> precede [xyz]. And [Sumthin' else] needed to be stored in a [data structure] to
> really make it efficiently useable."
>
> I think that new users would be fascinated and learn a lot, and even long-time
> experienced users who don't have any graphic arts background would find such
> explanations a goldmine of information and inspiration.
>
> Just something to think about - it doesn't need to be formal.  Every little
> tidbit, trick, rule, strategy, and optimization really helps.
>
> Thanks for all that you have done and continue to do!
> I like the new website, and the images are fantastic as always.
> I'm sure the animations are going to be mesmerizing (and creepy ;) ).
>
> - BE

Thanks BE.
I'll be happy to post my 'thought process' as I work though some new renderings.
I finally put 'pencils down' on my 'Nest project'. I have sketches of this from
30 years ago. haha. I'm rendering a 2000 frame drift animation through the
scene...which is taking some time @8 min per fame.

I've just started a new POV scene based on an old 'world' I designed in
Unity and exported for final renderings in Lumion 9. A software I own but is
'almost' impossible to export data out of. The renderings and animations focused
on an old flywheel driven 'pump-house' buried in ruin and over-grown vegetation.
I'll post some sketches of my idea along with some preliminary rendering I did
years ago. My goal on this will be to rebuild the Lumion scene in POV
without using smooth triangles - I miss CSG modeling and like a good challenge.
I do have my original CAD drawings that I'll use as underlays for building the
architectural structures.

BE, did you mean post stuff in this .general thread, or somewhere else?
Thanks!

miller

[Bald Eagle] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it. [22 days 3 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Thu, 23 Jul 2026 10:45:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> I'm currently working on a few ideas to help speed my POV scene building and
> have started a new web site to post and archive my current work and code. I'm
> working in a 'project tree' directory structure that allows me to jump around to
> various render-able asset libraries (materials, images, color_maps, objects,
> etc.).
> There are also a few utilities I've coded to help the process that I've also
> posted.

Hi Mike, and welcome back!

I like the new site, and the visuals are stunning as usual.  :)

I'm sure that you have a vast amount of knowledge about what makes things "look
good" - from the fundamental geometric aspects of structure and "smoothness", to
scene composition, lighting, and of course textures, normals, and finishes.

It would be really nice, and educational, if you could just post things here and
there about what was going through your head at the outset, and the key things
that you ensured were present to get the desired effects in the render.

"I _could_ have done it this way, but that would take too long, so I ...."
"I wanted to make this look [wet][powdery][translucent][hard & shiny][soft &
leathery] ... and so a texture like that requires at the minimum ...."
"The tentacle needs to look smooth and flowing, without any kinks, so I used a
[type] spline ..."
"Since I'm doing this in POV-Ray, I needed to take the structure of the SDL and
parsing into account.  [This] needed to be parameterized. [That] needed to
precede [xyz]. And [Sumthin' else] needed to be stored in a [data structure] to
really make it efficiently useable."

I think that new users would be fascinated and learn a lot, and even long-time
experienced users who don't have any graphic arts background would find such
explanations a goldmine of information and inspiration.

Just something to think about - it doesn't need to be formal.  Every little
tidbit, trick, rule, strategy, and optimization really helps.

Thanks for all that you have done and continue to do!
I like the new website, and the images are fantastic as always.
I'm sure the animations are going to be mesmerizing (and creepy ;) ).

- BE

[Bald Eagle] Re: pls make a app... [22 days 4 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Thu, 23 Jul 2026 10:10:00 GMT

wrote:
> > - "crashes" should, of course, not happen.  you can use, for instance, the
> > 'all_file' option[*] to "record" POV-Ray's text output, including error message.
> >  it would be helpful if you could post additional information on the bug (?),
> yeah... i know... idk if my laptop having a bug or something. i just tried it
> again but when i move object, it doesn't move. idk if i can solve this (im a
> begineer)

#version needs to come first before anything else. (except comments)
It's also useful to define your scene gamma.

#version 3.8;
global_settings {assumed_gamma 1.0}

But in the absence of any code, that's all I got.

- BE

[Bald Eagle] Re: Animation with sine waves? [22 days 4 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Thu, 23 Jul 2026 10:10:00 GMT

"ingo" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> "Sir" <fra### [at] jaliscoedumx> wrote:
>
> > #declare actangle = maxangle * sin( clock * 4 ) * cos( clock * 4 );
> > [...]
> >     rotate <0,0,clock*actangle>
>
> Didn't analyse the full thing but noticed the clock as well in actangle as in
> rotate again. So you animate the animation, removing the clock from rotate might
> do the trick?
>
> ingo

Also, why is sin getting multiplied by cos?
I would just use cos to oscillate between 1 and -1.

- BE

[] Re: pls make a app... [22 days 8 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Thu, 23 Jul 2026 06:05:00 GMT

> - "crashes" should, of course, not happen.  you can use, for instance, the
> 'all_file' option[*] to "record" POV-Ray's text output, including error message.
>  it would be helpful if you could post additional information on the bug (?),
yeah... i know... idk if my laptop having a bug or something. i just tried it
again but when i move object, it doesn't move. idk if i can solve this (im a
begineer)

[ingo] Re: Animation with sine waves? [22 days 8 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Thu, 23 Jul 2026 05:35:00 GMT

"Sir" <fra### [at] jaliscoedumx> wrote:

> #declare actangle = maxangle * sin( clock * 4 ) * cos( clock * 4 );
> [...]
>     rotate <0,0,clock*actangle>

Didn't analyse the full thing but noticed the clock as well in actangle as in
rotate again. So you animate the animation, removing the clock from rotate might
do the trick?

ingo

[Sir] Animation with sine waves? [22 days 9 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Thu, 23 Jul 2026 04:35:00 GMT

Hello POV-Ray Users!

So, i was rendering an animation of a metronome whose pendulum swings back and
forth between a specific angle and its negative.

Here's how I did it:

#declare maxangle = 35;
#declare actangle = maxangle * sin( clock * 4 ) * cos( clock * 4 );

polygon {
5,
<-.06,0>, <-.06,2.6>, <.06,2.6>, <.06,0>, <-.06,0>
         texture{ Chrome_Metal
                  // normal { bumps 0.5 scale 0.05 }
                  // finish { phong 1 }
                } // end of texture ---------------------------
    translate <0,0,0>
    rotate <0,0,clock*actangle>
    translate <0,.3,-.8>

   }
}
object { metronome
scale .5 }

This is not the complete scene, just the pendulum, which is a polygon that
rotates (maxangle value).

(I'm not an experienced user, and I don't know much about trigonometry and stuff
like that, srry.)

However, the pendulum doesn't swing back and forth constantly (as it should);
instead, it moves a very short distance at the beginning of the animation, and
as the animation progresses, the distance it travels increases until it exceeds
the angle that had been set (or so I think) as the maximum.

If anyone knows what's going on and how to fix it, I would really appreciate
it if you could share your knowledge with me.

Thanks!

(sorry if my english is bad, most of this post was translated)

- S I R ?

[Mike Miller] Re: Popularization of the POV-Ray program on Tik... [22 days 14 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Wed, 22 Jul 2026 23:55:00 GMT

"Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > The idea is simple: create content like memes, tutorials, videos, etc. Here's an
> > example:
>
> The first problem is adapting it to tiktok format: audio track needs to be
>
> EITHER:
> paired your renders with trending synthwave, chillwave, or retro-electronic
> music to match the aesthetic.
>
> OR:
> original to avoid being censored. So what should a POV soundtrack be like? I
> think sound samples from an on-topic talking podcast or tutorial, one that the
> author would allow us to use could make a good backdrop... (e.g. SMCA: Stephen
> Mc Avoy, with your awesome scottish accent, would you allow such derivative use
> of your works?)
>
> Then there is the content:
>
> *WIP Videos: Users love seeing how things are made. So a time-lapse of a POV-Ray
> scene compiling, or a "code vs. render" split screen, may perform very well.
>
> *Satisfying Loops: POV-Ray is great for creating perfect, mathematically precise
>
> watch.
>
> * generally, using the below tags could federate and ease the virality:
>
> #POVRay
> #RetroCGI
> #3DRender
> #OldSchoolCGI
> #FractalArt
> #GenerativeArt
>
> * Join Broader Communities: Post your work in the
> #3DArtists
> #DigitalArt
>
> * Is there any challenge worth contributing to? These might be a fit:
>
> #RetroCGIChallenge
> #LowPolyArt
> #FractalFriday
>
> * When using Nostalgia & "Retro-Future" Aesthetic:
> #Y2K
> #AnalogHorror"
> #RetroCGI

"POV-Ray is great for creating perfect, mathematically precise"
Yes... you had me at Nostalgia :)
At times ....at least for me, POV is the only thing in this world that makes
sense.

[Mike Miller] Hello gang - getting back to it. [22 days 16 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Wed, 22 Jul 2026 21:45:00 GMT

It's been a while ... I hope all is well with everyone.

I took a break from most of my computer/graphic work to 'work the farm', fish
and relax. Recently thought, I've have had the itch to get back into some POV
rendering. I just started animating my old 'Nest' scene, which has recently
become more of a 'test' scene for writing some visualizing tools.

I'm currently working on a few ideas to help speed my POV scene building and
have started a new web site to post and archive my current work and code. I'm
working in a 'project tree' directory structure that allows me to jump around to
various render-able asset libraries (materials, images, color_maps, objects,
etc.).
There are also a few utilities I've coded to help the process that I've also
posted.

new site:   www.miller-raytracer.com
new email   mil### [at] gmailcom

I have an old site, that I don't update, that has some very early sketches and
POV stuff.
old site:  www.miller-headspin.com

I'm hoping to be check in more often. God bless
Mike Miller

[jr] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-) [23 days 4 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Wed, 22 Jul 2026 09:55:00 GMT

hi,

"Lutz" <lut### [at] stmuccom> wrote:
> It's not so much this, since development is development and porting UI is mostly
> a pretty "easy" process, it is just a LOT of work.
>
> But, yeah, we would all like it if it was easy to make a cross platform
> modelling app.
>
> Anyway, we might see some activity to evaluate just how long it would take.

thanks for that last.  fwiw, I do know several regulars use C++, and perhaps we
will see, as per the saying, "many hands make light work".


regards, jr.

[Lutz] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-) [24 days 15 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Mon, 20 Jul 2026 22:35:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> what if, say, a Linux developer and the author of a Windows s/ware got together

It's not so much this, since development is development and porting UI is mostly
a pretty "easy" process, it is just a LOT of work.

But, yeah, we would all like it if it was easy to make a cross platform
modelling app.

Anyway, we might see some activity to evaluate just how long it would take.

- Lutz

[Lutz] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-) [24 days 15 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Mon, 20 Jul 2026 22:30:00 GMT

Having said that…

I do have some items on the roadmap already that will make it easier to port,
like transitioning all Registry based storage to local json settings files. And
decoupling some other things to have a common core and a UI layer.

Investigation results and plans are being committed to the repo in the docs
folder.

-Lutz

[jr] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-) [24 days 18 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Mon, 20 Jul 2026 20:15:00 GMT

hi,

antoine <map### [at] orangefr> wrote:

> >> I'm curious, when you say there is no more 3rd party libraries in the
> >> code, do you mean the gui of this new moray only uses the windows gui
> >> interface or is it cross platform (like unix for example) ? For example,
> >> the well known libraries 'wxWidgets' and 'Qt' are both cross platform
> >> but they are considered as 3rd party libraries... Can you provide more
> >> explanations about the dependencies (OS compatibility, etc...) of the
> >> new Moray ?
> > Moray is Windows only. ...
> > inside Moray, uses no 3rd party commercial libraries (there is still zlib,
> > pnglib) that runs fine on modern Win10 and Win11 systems. It still has strong
> > dependencies on the Microsoft MFC libraries, so cross platform is not on the
> > table.
> Ok, thank you for your explanations Lutz ;-) . As a Linux developer most
> of the time (C++ and POVRay mainly), I still have hope of running Moray
> on Ubuntu with Wine for example.

though ignorant of both C++ and the Moray code base, I cannot help but think
what if, say, a Linux developer and the author of a Windows s/ware got together
with view of translating ("migrating") the UI to a suitably licensed
cross-platform widget set ?  we'd all stand to gain :-).


regards, jr.

[Chris Cason] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-) [24 days 19 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Mon, 20 Jul 2026 19:03:16 GMT

On 20/07/2026 05:22, Lutz wrote:
> Moray is Windows only. When we donated it to the POV-Team it was using some 3rd
> party commercial UI libraries that prevented the POV-Team from releasing it
> under their license. Some work was done to replace it, but not released. In the
> meantime we needed it to also be x64. That work was started but never completed.
> And finally, Moray did not support the new way POV-Ray supports GUI integration
> (as a VFE server), nor was it compatible with V3.8. I fixed all those issues. So
> the result is a Windows x64 build that is compatible with POV-Ray 3.8 (though it
> does not support new features that were added post V3.5 yet), renders previews
> inside Moray, uses no 3rd party commercial libraries (there is still zlib,
> pnglib) that runs fine on modern Win10 and Win11 systems. It still has strong
> dependencies on the Microsoft MFC libraries, so cross platform is not on the
> table.

I agree with Lutz here. A port is not trivial as there are many dependencies on how
MFC does things. In particular, it has a unique format for defining dialogs, and each
and every dialog in Moray would need to be re-coded into whatever format the target
library needs (e.g. QT). And that's just the start.

Once we release the source anyone who is interested in doing a port is welcome to fork
it and have a stab. We'd be quite happy to see someone make a cross-platform version.

-- Chris

[Bald Eagle] Re: Antikythera mechanism [25 days 2 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Mon, 20 Jul 2026 11:35:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> Greetings !
> Interesting device for modelling, don't you think so ?

I absolutely think so.  :)

https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3Cweb.5be049da3bc8830d765e06870%40news.povray.org%3E/

I have watched all of the documentaries, and every ClickSpring video.

The pin-and-slot assembly is certainly one of the most interesting and
challenging features.

- BW

[yesbird] Antikythera mechanism [25 days 7 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Mon, 20 Jul 2026 06:25:23 GMT

Greetings !
Interesting device for modelling, don't you think so ?

https://www.euronews.com/culture/2026/07/20/antikythera-mechanism-greek-computer-that-predicted-eclipses-2000-years-ago
-- 
YB

[antoine] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-) [25 days 8 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Mon, 20 Jul 2026 05:50:33 GMT

Le 19/07/2026 Ã  21:22, Lutz a Ã©critÂ :
> 
>> Hello Lutz,
>> I'm curious, when you say there is no more 3rd party libraries in the
>> code, do you mean the gui of this new moray only uses the windows gui
>> interface or is it cross platform (like unix for example) ? For example,
>> the well known libraries 'wxWidgets' and 'Qt' are both cross platform
>> but they are considered as 3rd party libraries... Can you provide more
>> explanations about the dependencies (OS compatibility, etc...) of the
>> new Moray ?
>> Regards,
>> Antoine.
> 
> Moray is Windows only. When we donated it to the POV-Team it was using some 3rd
> party commercial UI libraries that prevented the POV-Team from releasing it
> under their license. Some work was done to replace it, but not released. In the
> meantime we needed it to also be x64. That work was started but never completed.
> And finally, Moray did not support the new way POV-Ray supports GUI integration
> (as a VFE server), nor was it compatible with V3.8. I fixed all those issues. So
> the result is a Windows x64 build that is compatible with POV-Ray 3.8 (though it
> does not support new features that were added post V3.5 yet), renders previews
> inside Moray, uses no 3rd party commercial libraries (there is still zlib,
> pnglib) that runs fine on modern Win10 and Win11 systems. It still has strong
> dependencies on the Microsoft MFC libraries, so cross platform is not on the
> table.
> 
> Lutz
> 
Anyway keep up the good work !
Regards,
Antoine.

[antoine] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-) [25 days 8 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Mon, 20 Jul 2026 05:47:23 GMT

Le 19/07/2026 Ã  21:22, Lutz a Ã©critÂ :
> 
>> Hello Lutz,
>> I'm curious, when you say there is no more 3rd party libraries in the
>> code, do you mean the gui of this new moray only uses the windows gui
>> interface or is it cross platform (like unix for example) ? For example,
>> the well known libraries 'wxWidgets' and 'Qt' are both cross platform
>> but they are considered as 3rd party libraries... Can you provide more
>> explanations about the dependencies (OS compatibility, etc...) of the
>> new Moray ?
>> Regards,
>> Antoine.
> 
> Moray is Windows only. When we donated it to the POV-Team it was using some 3rd
> party commercial UI libraries that prevented the POV-Team from releasing it
> under their license. Some work was done to replace it, but not released. In the
> meantime we needed it to also be x64. That work was started but never completed.
> And finally, Moray did not support the new way POV-Ray supports GUI integration
> (as a VFE server), nor was it compatible with V3.8. I fixed all those issues. So
> the result is a Windows x64 build that is compatible with POV-Ray 3.8 (though it
> does not support new features that were added post V3.5 yet), renders previews
> inside Moray, uses no 3rd party commercial libraries (there is still zlib,
> pnglib) that runs fine on modern Win10 and Win11 systems. It still has strong
> dependencies on the Microsoft MFC libraries, so cross platform is not on the
> table.
> 
> Lutz
> 
Ok, thank you for your explanations Lutz ;-) . As a Linux developer most 
of the time (C++ and POVRay mainly), I still have hope of running Moray 
on Ubuntu with Wine for example.
Regards,
Antoine.

[Paolo Gibellini] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-) [25 days 14 hours and 58 minutes ago]

Sun, 19 Jul 2026 23:26:19 GMT

Great news, Lutz!
Congratulations for your tenacity.

Paolo


Il 17/07/2026 09:00, Lutz ha scritto:
> Hello there POV-Ray and Moray users!
> 
> It's been a few decades, lol. Glad to see there are still some of you around.
> 
> I had some AI tokens at my disposal and decided to put Claude Code to work and
> get Moray running on x64 (based on Federicos abandoned branch) and then got it
> to support POV-Ray 3.8, including integrated previews with a dedicated VFE-based
> server.
> 
> So I just pushed that work to the master branch in the BitBucket repo. Not sure
> who has access to that, but if there is sufficient interest we can probably make
> a packaged release as well. There are no more 3rd party libraries in the code.
> 
> Anyway, some of the code in this modeller is now over 30 years old! I started in
> the early 90's on it... ahhh, the memories.
> 
> I might check in every now and again and implement some things. The POV-Ray 3.8
> support is currently strictly limited to VFE calling and making sure the INIs
> are compatible. No new features are supported. Also, it might still have some
> bugs in it and I will fix the ones I haven't run into during this port, if they
> are reported.
> 
> Much love to you all!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> - Lutz
> 
>

[Lutz] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-) [25 days 19 hours ago]

Sun, 19 Jul 2026 19:25:00 GMT

> Hello Lutz,
> I'm curious, when you say there is no more 3rd party libraries in the
> code, do you mean the gui of this new moray only uses the windows gui
> interface or is it cross platform (like unix for example) ? For example,
> the well known libraries 'wxWidgets' and 'Qt' are both cross platform
> but they are considered as 3rd party libraries... Can you provide more
> explanations about the dependencies (OS compatibility, etc...) of the
> new Moray ?
> Regards,
> Antoine.

Moray is Windows only. When we donated it to the POV-Team it was using some 3rd
party commercial UI libraries that prevented the POV-Team from releasing it
under their license. Some work was done to replace it, but not released. In the
meantime we needed it to also be x64. That work was started but never completed.
And finally, Moray did not support the new way POV-Ray supports GUI integration
(as a VFE server), nor was it compatible with V3.8. I fixed all those issues. So
the result is a Windows x64 build that is compatible with POV-Ray 3.8 (though it
does not support new features that were added post V3.5 yet), renders previews
inside Moray, uses no 3rd party commercial libraries (there is still zlib,
pnglib) that runs fine on modern Win10 and Win11 systems. It still has strong
dependencies on the Microsoft MFC libraries, so cross platform is not on the
table.

Lutz

[ingo] looking for a Ron Parker macro or scene [25 days 19 hours and 22 minutes ago]

Sun, 19 Jul 2026 19:02:49 GMT

I've been trying to dig up an old macro/scene by Ron Parker. It's not on 
the server anymore, it's not in 
https://usenetarchives.com/groups.php?c=povray

It is a macro/scene for creating a arabeske/arabic like tiling 
pattern.The beauty was that it did work in 3D, not just on a 2D plane. 
By adding a slight rotation to it the pattern kept changeing, while 
still being similar.

Does it ring a bell? Anyone?

Sadly I lost my complete newsgroup archive.

Cheers,

Ingo

[antoine] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-) [25 days 22 hours and 8 minutes ago]

Sun, 19 Jul 2026 16:16:20 GMT

Le 17/07/2026 Ã  09:00, Lutz a Ã©critÂ :
> Hello there POV-Ray and Moray users!
> 
> It's been a few decades, lol. Glad to see there are still some of you around.
> 
> I had some AI tokens at my disposal and decided to put Claude Code to work and
> get Moray running on x64 (based on Federicos abandoned branch) and then got it
> to support POV-Ray 3.8, including integrated previews with a dedicated VFE-based
> server.
> 
> So I just pushed that work to the master branch in the BitBucket repo. Not sure
> who has access to that, but if there is sufficient interest we can probably make
> a packaged release as well. There are no more 3rd party libraries in the code.
> 
> Anyway, some of the code in this modeller is now over 30 years old! I started in
> the early 90's on it... ahhh, the memories.
> 
> I might check in every now and again and implement some things. The POV-Ray 3.8
> support is currently strictly limited to VFE calling and making sure the INIs
> are compatible. No new features are supported. Also, it might still have some
> bugs in it and I will fix the ones I haven't run into during this port, if they
> are reported.
> 
> Much love to you all!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> - Lutz
> 
> 
Le 17/07/2026 Ã  09:00, Lutz a Ã©crit :
 > Hello there POV-Ray and Moray users!
 >
Hello Lutz,
I'm curious, when you say there is no more 3rd party libraries in the 
code, do you mean the gui of this new moray only uses the windows gui 
interface or is it cross platform (like unix for example) ? For example, 
the well known libraries 'wxWidgets' and 'Qt' are both cross platform 
but they are considered as 3rd party libraries... Can you provide more 
explanations about the dependencies (OS compatibility, etc...) of the 
new Moray ?
Regards,
Antoine.

[Bald Eagle] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-) [27 days 3 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Sat, 18 Jul 2026 11:20:00 GMT

"Lutz" <lut### [at] stmuccom> wrote:

> So I just pushed that work to the master branch in the BitBucket repo. Not sure
> who has access to that, but if there is sufficient interest we can probably make
> a packaged release as well. There are no more 3rd party libraries in the code.

> - Lutz

:O   WHOA!
This is indeed a very welcome surprise!

Interested in the BitBucket repo as well as a packaged release.

- BE

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Damn, I can't add an object! [27 days 4 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Sat, 18 Jul 2026 09:34:58 GMT

On 18/07/2026 08:45, Cossack wrote:
> I compiled a project on termux x11 but it won't add the object >:[ .
> Anyone know how to fix this?

I'm no expert, but this makes me think there might be one or more 
missing libraries such as SDL, X11-Dev ?


-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Cossack ] Damn, I can't add an object! [27 days 7 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Sat, 18 Jul 2026 06:50:00 GMT

I compiled a project on termux x11 but it won't add the object >:[ .
Anyone know how to fix this?

[kurtz le pirate] My new desktop wallpaper [27 days 21 hours and 48 minutes ago]

Fri, 17 Jul 2026 16:37:07 GMT

Hello,


Here, the small version (800x450 - 146Ko) of my new wallpapar made today.



Stats for original image @ 3200x1800 :

* Parse Time: 0 hours  0 minutes 27 seconds (27.891 seconds)
                using 1 thread(s) with 27.849 CPU-seconds total
* Radiosity Time: 0 hours  0 minutes 13 seconds (13.160 seconds)
               using 6 thread(s) with 72.644 CPU-seconds total
* Trace Time:0 hours  0 minutes 36 seconds (36.322 seconds)
              using 6 thread(s) with 209.941 CPU-seconds total
* Render Options
   Antialiasing On, (Method 3, Threshold 0.000, Depth 3, Jitter 1.00, 
Gamma 2.50)


I think it's pretty fast for an old Core i5 / 6 cores @ 3 GHz


Of course, I reused a lot of the work I had done on polyhedra 
<https://louisbel.pages-perso.free.fr/scenes/scene030.shtml> and the 3D 
-models of polyhedron from <https://dmccooey.com/polyhedra/index.html>.





-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Chris Cason] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-) [28 days 1 hour ago]

Fri, 17 Jul 2026 13:25:05 GMT

G'day Lutz, good to see you again :)

I have access and have been seeing the commits (I get an email for each) and was quite
pleased to see the progress. I also got your email and am about to reply to it.

When we're ready to go with 3.8 beta 3 I'd like to release both POV-Ray and a Moray
built with the same codebase simultaneously. I think that will make people happy :)

-- Chris

[ingo] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-) [28 days 7 hours ago]

Fri, 17 Jul 2026 07:25:00 GMT

"Lutz" <lut### [at] stmuccom> wrote:
> Hello there POV-Ray and Moray users!

..... flabbergasted ..... speechless .....

Cheers!!!!!!! :)

ingo

[Lutz] Moray V3.6 is alive :-) [28 days 7 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Fri, 17 Jul 2026 07:05:00 GMT

Hello there POV-Ray and Moray users!

It's been a few decades, lol. Glad to see there are still some of you around.

I had some AI tokens at my disposal and decided to put Claude Code to work and
get Moray running on x64 (based on Federicos abandoned branch) and then got it
to support POV-Ray 3.8, including integrated previews with a dedicated VFE-based
server.

So I just pushed that work to the master branch in the BitBucket repo. Not sure
who has access to that, but if there is sufficient interest we can probably make
a packaged release as well. There are no more 3rd party libraries in the code.

Anyway, some of the code in this modeller is now over 30 years old! I started in
the early 90's on it... ahhh, the memories.

I might check in every now and again and implement some things. The POV-Ray 3.8
support is currently strictly limited to VFE calling and making sure the INIs
are compatible. No new features are supported. Also, it might still have some
bugs in it and I will fix the ones I haven't run into during this port, if they
are reported.

Much love to you all!

Cheers,

- Lutz

[ingo] Re: Include path [30 days 3 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Wed, 15 Jul 2026 10:56:11 GMT

On 2026-07-14 13:37, Maetes wrote:
> Is there a way 
povosc needs waveheader
test is a subdir of current dir

#include "povosc.inc"
#include "test/waveheader.inc"

this works

#include "povosc.inc"
#include "./test/waveheader.inc"

this also

POV-Ray 3.8 on Win11

ingo

[Bald Eagle] Re: Include path [30 days 3 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Wed, 15 Jul 2026 10:35:00 GMT

You can get the file name of the current scene file, but I don't think the whole
path.

[Maetes] Re: Include path [30 days 4 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Wed, 15 Jul 2026 10:20:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> how about, for every scene file, you add a corresponding .ini file ?  there, not
> only can you provide explicit paths (via 'library_path'), but also "fix" other
> stuff you'd usually provide on the command-line, like antialias etc.  "added
> bonus" is being able to simply write:
>   $ povray myscene.ini
> and done ;-).

Is that easier than defining a path?
I don't think so.
It would just shift the problem to an (additional) ini file.

Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
> When POV-Ray looks for include files, it start in the same folder as the
> current scene file, then, it search in the include folder.
> When searching for an include from inside another include file, it
> search in the folder where the first include is located.

The last sentence is my problem. What I would need would be something like a
Povray variable that says where the currently included script is. Then I could
use it to load more scripts of this "sub-include".

But maybe I'm not describing my problem well enough.
I'll do it with manual path information first, maybe then I'll get a hint on how
to do it more elegantly.

Thank you for the tips.

ma

[Maetes] Re: Povray-Logo [30 days 4 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Wed, 15 Jul 2026 10:10:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
>
https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3Cweb.685c6563ffd559931f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org%3E/?tto

> p=447960&toff=50

Thanks for that.

I searched for it for a long time, even by AI, found nothing.


Gr
Ma

[Bald Eagle] Re: Povray-Logo [30 days 12 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Wed, 15 Jul 2026 01:30:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:

> No idea what the link is.

https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3Cweb.685c6563ffd559931f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org%3E/?tto
p=447960&toff=50

[Bald Eagle] Re: Povray-Logo [30 days 13 hours ago]

Wed, 15 Jul 2026 01:25:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> I downloaded the picture here from the forum.
>
> Does anyone know who created this and can give name + news link?
>
> I wanted to use it on my blog and provide appropriate information there.
>
> If the creator has something against it, please contact me, then I'll look for
> something else.
>
> Greetings Ma

That's mine.
Bill "Bald Eagle" Walker

No idea what the link is.  Can't find the file either - might be on my other
computer.

Go ahead and use it.

- BE

[Alain Martel] Re: Include path [30 days 17 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 20:56:07 GMT

Le 2026-07-14 Ã  07:37, Maetes a Ã©critÂ :
> Is there a way to find out in an included script where it is relative to the
> executed script?
> 
> Problem: I include a script that needs to include more scripts, textures in
> separate files, or images. Unfortunately, it is the case that the path of the
> executed script applies in the included script.
> 
> #include "textures.inc"
> 
> therefore does not lead to success there.
> 
> At the moment I do this by setting a path before the first include.
> 
> #declare Coupe_Path = ".. /base/cars/coupe/";
> 
> I then use this path with Concat, and thus include further scripts and images.
> 
> Is there a better method?
> 
> I think there is the possibility to give general include_path, but I don't want
> to use it. That would be too many and the folder structure changes often.
> 
> Ma
> 
> 
> 

When POV-Ray looks for include files, it start in the same folder as the 
current scene file, then, it search in the include folder.
When searching for an include from inside another include file, it 
search in the folder where the first include is located.

So, create a folder for your scene.
Place any custom include in that same folder.
Avoid placing your custom includes in the includes folder.
Benefits : Your project is easier to manage. If you want to publish your 
scene, you can simply zip the whole folder and get all of the required 
files.

[jr] Re: Include path [30 days 20 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 17:50:00 GMT

hi,

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> > dir/myIncludeChaos holds the actual files. dir/myWorkingStructure is
> > what you see. In your editor you go to /house and open the link
> > include1.ini. Your editor actually opens the include1.pov from the chaos
> > directory.
> That's too complicated for me.
>
> I also want to publish the scripts. Then everyone who wants to use them would
> have to deal with sym-links.

how about, for every scene file, you add a corresponding .ini file ?  there, not
only can you provide explicit paths (via 'library_path'), but also "fix" other
stuff you'd usually provide on the command-line, like antialias etc.  "added
bonus" is being able to simply write:
  $ povray myscene.ini
and done ;-).

regards, jr.

[Maetes] Re: U.S. Virgin Islands 4/20 flag [30 days 21 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 16:35:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> Happy 4/20!
>
> The flag is all procedural.  The drug-free edition is at
>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_States_Virgin_Islands

I am interested in the code for the creation of the flagpole and especially the
flag. Creating this myself will certainly cost me several hours.

Gr
Ma

[Maetes] Re: Include path [31 days and 35 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 13:50:00 GMT

ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> dir/myIncludeChaos holds the actual files. dir/myWorkingStructure is
> what you see. In your editor you go to /house and open the link
> include1.ini. Your editor actually opens the include1.pov from the chaos
> directory.
>

That's too complicated for me.

I also want to publish the scripts. Then everyone who wants to use them would
have to deal with sym-links.

Your solution may be elegant, but I don't like it.
It would be easier to set a path, I think.

m

[ingo] Re: Include path [31 days and 57 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 13:27:41 GMT

On 2026-07-14 14:16, Maetes wrote:

Lets try and visualize:

dir/myIncludeChaos
   object1.pov
   object2.pov
   object3.pov
   include1.inc
   include2.inc


dir/myWorkingStructure
   subdir/car
     link to object1.pov
     link to include2.ini

   subdir/house
     link to include1.ini

     subsubdir/furniture
       link to object2.pov
       link to object2.pov
       link to include2.ini

dir/myIncludeChaos holds the actual files. dir/myWorkingStructure is 
what you see. In your editor you go to /house and open the link 
include1.ini. Your editor actually opens the include1.pov from the chaos 
directory.


https://www.howtogeek.com/16226/complete-guide-to-symbolic-links-symlinks-on-windows-or-linux/


ingo

> Unless I didn't understand your explanation correctly, my English is not the
> best (I use translation tool)
> 
> m
> 
>

[Maetes] Re: Include path [31 days 2 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 12:20:00 GMT

"ingo" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

> For working with the files, a single directory that holds them all and a
> directory structure with soft/sim links from where you edit the files.
>
> When including in POV-Ray you point to the single dir that holds them all. And
> answering your other question, include one top_level file that includes the
> rest. That then works as there is only one directory with the actual files.
>
> Would that work for you?


I don't think so.

I tinker with small worlds with countless objects. All of which are under
construction, so most of them are housed in their own folders.

If I put them all together in one folder, it becomes a huge chaos.

Unless I didn't understand your explanation correctly, my English is not the
best (I use translation tool)

m

[Maetes] Re: Cutty Sark [31 days 2 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 12:15:00 GMT

I don't want to push ...
but it's about time for an update, isn't it?

(waiting-smiley)

ma

[ingo] Re: Include path [31 days 2 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 12:10:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>
> Is there a better method?
>
> I think there is the possibility to give general include_path, but I don't want
> to use it. That would be too many and the folder structure changes often.
>

For working with the files, a single directory that holds them all and a
directory structure with soft/sim links from where you edit the files.

When including in POV-Ray you point to the single dir that holds them all. And
answering your other question, include one top_level file that includes the
rest. That then works as there is only one directory with the actual files.

Would that work for you?

ingo

[Maetes] Re: auto-include? [31 days 2 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 12:10:00 GMT

Thanks for the hints, jr, didn't know this options.

but thats to complicated.
The more includes, the more complicated.

ma

[Maetes] Povray-Logo [31 days 2 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 12:05:00 GMT

I downloaded the picture here from the forum.

Does anyone know who created this and can give name + news link?

I wanted to use it on my blog and provide appropriate information there.

If the creator has something against it, please contact me, then I'll look for
something else.

Greetings Ma

[jr] Re: auto-include? [31 days 2 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 12:00:00 GMT

hi,

addressing both posts.

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

> Is there a way to find out in an included script where it is relative to the
> executed script?
> ...
> At the moment I do this by setting a path before the first include.
> #declare Coupe_Path = ".. /base/cars/coupe/";
> I then use this path with Concat, and thus include further scripts and images.
> Is there a better method?

not really I think, but you could (perhaps) supply one or more paths via a CLI
declare, ie:
  $ povray ... declare=library_path=/some/path/

you'll need to "fuss" with quoting the construct for most shells, easier to use
an ini file, imo.

> Imagine I had a model that is split into several files for a better overview.
> ...
> If there should be an auto-include, the car_base.inc would have to be given a
> path where it can find the rest of the files - relative to the script executed.

there sort-of is, see 'include_header',
<https://wiki.povray.org/content/Reference:Scene_Parsing_Options#Include_File_Name>.

regards, jr.

[Maetes] auto-include? [31 days 2 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 11:45:00 GMT

Imagine I had a model that is split into several files for a better overview.

car_base.inc
car_textures.inc
car_tyres.inc
.....

Would you include them all individually in your executing script?
Or would you expect all includes to be done automatically in e.g. car_base.inc?

I have quite a few models here that I would like to publish, but I'm not sure
about the handling.

If there should be an auto-include, the car_base.inc would have to be given a
path where it can find the rest of the files - relative to the script executed.

ma

[Maetes] Include path [31 days 2 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 11:40:00 GMT

Is there a way to find out in an included script where it is relative to the
executed script?

Problem: I include a script that needs to include more scripts, textures in
separate files, or images. Unfortunately, it is the case that the path of the
executed script applies in the included script.

#include "textures.inc"

therefore does not lead to success there.

At the moment I do this by setting a path before the first include.

#declare Coupe_Path = ".. /base/cars/coupe/";

I then use this path with Concat, and thus include further scripts and images.

Is there a better method?

I think there is the possibility to give general include_path, but I don't want
to use it. That would be too many and the folder structure changes often.

Ma

[Cossack ] Re: pls make a app... [31 days 9 hours ago]

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 05:25:00 GMT

wrote:
> hello POV-ray users... im trying to make the best POV-ray scene ever but it
> looks like trash... soo... can somebody pls make a app for pc (windows) that
> show how to make povray scene much better? and also can somebody create an
> software that works like blender (a 3D software that can create scenes with
> preview and no coding) that shows the preview every 100 milisecond on 320x240
> but they after render the scene (not the full scene) pls?

So there are various POVRay modelers and POSRay that could help with this, and
Blender also supports POV Ray, so probably all the issues are resolved?

[Alessio Sangalli] NEON optimizations [31 days 13 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 00:45:36 GMT

Hello I noticed that SIMD optimization for for x86 only so I introduced 
it for NEON also:

1. NEON-accelerated noise (AArch64): a hand-written ARM NEON kernel for 
the core Perlin Noise/DNoise functions, plugged into the runtime noise 
dispatch. ~6â€“13% faster on noise-heavy scenes, output
pixel-identical.

2. SIMD BVH traversal (POV_BVH=bvh4): a contiguous SoA "BVH4" node 
layout with a branchless 4-wide NEON ray-box slab test, applied to both 
the scene-level bounding hierarchy and the per-mesh BVHs â€” scene
trees 
keep the best-first priority queue, mesh trees use a front-to-back 
stack. ~1.9Ã— on traversal-bound rendering
(1.1â€“1.7Ã— on typical GI/mesh 
scenes, no change on non-BVH-bound ones), output pixel-identical.

Anybody cares for these? Main use case is Apple Silicon computers

[Bald Eagle] Re: pls make a app... [31 days 13 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 00:30:00 GMT

Dude.  Just answer the guy's question.























;)  :P

[jr] Re: pls make a app... [32 days ago]

Mon, 13 Jul 2026 14:25:00 GMT

hi,

"" wrote:
> > perhaps the real time render option ('+rtr') will help ?
> well i tried but sometimes it just crashes my app

</sigh>..  try (please) to put yourself in my / the reader's "shoes".  you wrote
you have a scene you'd like to improve, and that (on a Windows box, I assume ?)
the RTR "sometimes" crashes the app.  you will have to admit that "vague" is an
understatement ;-).

if you want to go without "handle", no problem, but zero information ?!

if you are interested in working on your scene to make it better I suggest:

- give us a (cut-down) version of the scene code and a sentence or two
explaining what you're aiming for, and what problem(s) you see.

- "crashes" should, of course, not happen.  you can use, for instance, the
'all_file' option[*] to "record" POV-Ray's text output, including error message.
 it would be helpful if you could post additional information on the bug (?),
tia.

[*]
<wiki.povray.org/content/Reference:Text_Output_Options#Directing_Text_Streams_to_Files>

regards, jr.

[] Re: pls make a app... [32 days 3 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Jul 2026 10:40:00 GMT

> perhaps the real time render option ('+rtr') will help ?
>
>
> regards, jr.

well i tried but sometimes it just crashes my app

[Alain Martel] Re: pls make a app... [33 days 23 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Sat, 11 Jul 2026 14:55:20 GMT

Le 2026-07-10 Ã  16:01,  a Ã©critÂ :
> hello POV-ray users... im trying to make the best POV-ray scene ever but it
> looks like trash... soo... can somebody pls make a app for pc (windows) that
> show how to make povray scene much better? and also can somebody create an
> software that works like blender (a 3D software that can create scenes with
> preview and no coding) that shows the preview every 100 milisecond on 320x240
> but they after render the scene (not the full scene) pls?
> 
> 

A good lighting is essential. Place your main lights in realistic 
places. Use some fill lights. Low intensity lights with the shadowless 
attribute.
Use area_light instead of regular lights. Use the adaptive sampling. 
Start with adaptive 0. This start using the corner of the area_light and 
subdivide it as needed. ONLY use adaptive 1 or adaptive 2 if there are 
artifacts.
A light using
area_light 2*x 2*z 65 65 adaptive 0
renders faster than one using
area_light 2*x 2*z 4 4 jitter

Next, texture and finish. If you have reflective surfaces, most of the 
time, you want fresnel reflection, unless the surface is a metal. Don't 
forget to give an IOR to the object. Usual IOR range is about 1.3 to 2.1.
Metallic textures should have an ambient value of zero.

[Bald Eagle] Re: pls make a app... [34 days 3 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Sat, 11 Jul 2026 11:00:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> > im trying to make the best POV-ray scene ever but it
> > looks like trash... soo... can somebody pls make a app for pc (windows) that
> > show how to make povray scene much better?
>
> if you post the scene, or a cut-down version of it, and tell how you rendered
> it, that is, which options etc, I'm sure people will try to help.

The biggest things that are going to affect what your scene looks like are
textures, and lighting.  You can have amazing geometry, but without those, the
whole scene will look flat, fake, and "like trash".

Consider how your scene is "composed" in terms of how photographers
painstakingly set up a scene.
Apply textures with normals and finishes.  You'd be surprised just how far that
will go.
Use good lighting.  Warp wrote an article about 3-point lighting, highlights and
shadows will do much to create a much richer sense of depth, complexity, "3D"
and realism.  And using high quality radiosity will also do amzing things that
just can't be accomplished by simply tweaking all of the above.
And then you have HDR light probes.  That will bath your scene with complex
light that simply cannot be matched in any other way. Especially if you have
some reflection in your finishes.
You truly have to see it to believe it.

As for speed, POV-Ray is slow.   It's a raytracer and uses a lot of
physical-based rendering techniques.  It's not a raster graphics package, and
doesn't use a GPU.
One must be thoughtful, and hand-craft the scene like the old masters.   You get
out what you put in.

Like jr said, post some code and a render, and we can spot areas that can
benefit from specific improvements, and help optimize things that would
otherwise unnecessarily slow down the render.

- BE

[jr] Re: pls make a app... [34 days 6 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Sat, 11 Jul 2026 07:45:00 GMT

hi.

"" wrote:
> hello POV-ray users... im trying to make the best POV-ray scene ever but it
> looks like trash... soo... can somebody pls make a app for pc (windows) that
> show how to make povray scene much better?

if you post the scene, or a cut-down version of it, and tell how you rendered
it, that is, which options etc, I'm sure people will try to help.  (if there are
multiple files post a Zip archive)

> and also can somebody create an
> software that works like blender (a 3D software that can create scenes with
> preview and no coding) that shows the preview every 100 milisecond on 320x240
> but they after render the scene (not the full scene) pls?

perhaps the real time render option ('+rtr') will help ?

regards, jr.

[] pls make a app... [34 days 18 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Fri, 10 Jul 2026 20:05:00 GMT

hello POV-ray users... im trying to make the best POV-ray scene ever but it
looks like trash... soo... can somebody pls make a app for pc (windows) that
show how to make povray scene much better? and also can somebody create an
software that works like blender (a 3D software that can create scenes with
preview and no coding) that shows the preview every 100 milisecond on 320x240
but they after render the scene (not the full scene) pls?

[Bald Eagle] Re: Mixed array [38 days 2 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Tue, 7 Jul 2026 12:05:00 GMT

William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:

Well hello there, stranger.
Hope all is going as well as can be.

We've missed you in these parts.

- BW

[William F Pokorny] Re: Mixed array [39 days 22 hours and 17 minutes ago]

Sun, 5 Jul 2026 16:07:33 GMT

On 7/3/26 16:08, jr wrote:
> iirc, both Bald Eagle and WFP have partial solutions.  (no refs, sorry)

FWIW, sample yuqk code using its id_type() keyword.

//---
#version unofficial 3.8; // yuqk
#if (file_exists("version.inc"))
     #include "version.inc"
#end
#if (!defined(Fork_yuqk))
     #error "This POV-Ray SDL code requires the yuqk fork."
#end

#include "setidtypes.inc"       // init global.dictIdTypes dictionary
McrPrintGlobalDictIdTypes(true) // Utility macro to print types

#declare Datas = array mixed;

#declare Datas[0] = <1,2,3>;
#declare Datas[1] = <1,2,3,4>;
#declare Datas[2] = <1,2>;

#if (id_type(Datas[2])=global.dictIdTypes.v2d)
     #debug "\nDatas[2] is a 2D vector\n"
#end
#if (id_type(Datas[0])=global.dictIdTypes.v3d)
     #debug "\nDatas[0] is a 3D vector\n"
#end
#if (id_type(Datas[1])=global.dictIdTypes.v4d)
     #debug "\nDatas[1] is a 4D vector\n"
#end
#debug "\n"

#error "No objects. Testing SDL."
//---

Bill P.

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Mixed array [40 days 22 hours and 8 minutes ago]

Sat, 4 Jul 2026 16:16:53 GMT

Thanks for your replies, guys.
Those are some really clever solutions. Bravo.

I'm not sure yet if I'll use them or rewrite my code so I don't have to 
run those tests anymore.

Thanks again




-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Bald Eagle] Re: Mixed array [41 days 1 hour and 35 minutes ago]

Sat, 4 Jul 2026 12:50:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:

> There's a slightly more advanced version posted sometime last year,

https://news.povray.org/povray.advanced-users/message/%3Cweb.68478f382f29ff11f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org%3E/#%3Cw
eb.68478f382f29ff11f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org%3E

- BE

[Bald Eagle] Re: Mixed array [41 days 13 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Sat, 4 Jul 2026 00:55:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> iirc, both Bald Eagle and WFP have partial solutions.  (no refs, sorry)

I have a full solution.

https://news.povray.org/povray.general/message/%3Cweb.682bc388985098ff1f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org%3E/#%3Cweb.682
bc388985098ff1f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org%3E

There's a slightly more advanced version posted sometime last year, but this
should do ya.

- BE

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Mixed array [41 days 14 hours and 23 minutes ago]

Sat, 4 Jul 2026 00:02:01 GMT

On 2026-07-03 12:11 (-4), kurtz le pirate wrote:
> 
> #declare Datas = array mixed;
> 
> #declare Datas[0] = <1,2,3>;
> #declare Datas[1] = <1,2,3,4>;
> #declare Datas[2] = <1,2>;
> 
> 
> how can you tell that the vector in Datas[0] has 3 components and the
> vector in Datas[1] 4 ?

I managed to figure something out for some special applications in two
of my libraries.  Have a look at macro Caption__Get_padding() in
caption.inc and macro Lamp_Has4D() in desklamp.inc and see if you can
generalize them.

  https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-Caption/blob/main/caption.inc
  https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-DeskLamp/blob/main/desklamp.inc

[jr] Re: Hi everyone, could someone please explain ho... [41 days 18 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Fri, 3 Jul 2026 20:10:00 GMT

hi,

Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
> Le 2026-06-30 à 14:50, jr a écrit :
> > ... would highlight all except the brackets.  may need to rethink.. :-)
>
> No problem using Thunderbird. Appears directly as a functional link.

good info, thanks.


regards, jr.

[jr] Re: Mixed array [41 days 18 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Fri, 3 Jul 2026 20:10:00 GMT

hi,

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> With this :
> #declare Datas = array mixed;
> #declare Datas[0] = <1,2,3>;
> #declare Datas[1] = <1,2,3,4>;
> #declare Datas[2] = <1,2>;
>
> how can you tell that the vector in Datas[0] has 3 components and the
> vector in Datas[1] 4 ?

in a word, you/we cannot.

> So far, I haven't found anything online about this. So a little help
> would be appreciated ;)

iirc, both Bald Eagle and WFP have partial solutions.  (no refs, sorry)

if only 2/3/4 vector data is stored, you could combine vector and #components in
a 5-vector ?

regards, jr.

[kurtz le pirate] Mixed array [41 days 22 hours and 13 minutes ago]

Fri, 3 Jul 2026 16:11:44 GMT

Hello,


With this :

#declare Datas = array mixed;

#declare Datas[0] = <1,2,3>;
#declare Datas[1] = <1,2,3,4>;
#declare Datas[2] = <1,2>;


how can you tell that the vector in Datas[0] has 3 components and the 
vector in Datas[1] 4 ?


So far, I haven't found anything online about this. So a little help 
would be appreciated ;)



-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Francois LE COAT] Re: Optical Inertia [42 days 23 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Thu, 2 Jul 2026 15:00:18 GMT

Hi,

Here is the flight of a drone through the forest...

	<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RefA0o2wkE>

What is "temporal disparity"?

In the context of stereoscopic vision or image matching, disparity
(typically spatial) measures the difference in position of a single
point across two images (e.g., left and right).

When applied to the temporal domain, temporal disparity therefore
refers to:
- The positional difference of a point or feature between two
consecutive images in a video sequence, reflecting motion or
temporal change.
- A metric used in computer vision to estimate optical-flow or
3D structure from image sequences.

Measuring optical-flow between successive images matched over time
â€” by estimating projective dominant motion â€” reveals
"tem
poral
disparity".

Best regards,

-- 
FranÃ§ois LE COAT
<https://eureka.atari.org/>

[Cousin Ricky] Re: DeskLamp 2.0.2-beta bug fix [43 days 15 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Wed, 1 Jul 2026 22:25:48 GMT

On 2026-06-20 15:33 (-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
> I have fixed a bug where the lamp hood illumination is brighter than the
> bulb that illuminates it.  This bug manifested only for colored bulbs
> with non-radiosity scenes; and for non-HDR formats, only when the light
> was very dim or the bulb color was fully saturated.
> 
> I am still investigating the finish on the colored bulb itself.

My investigation found no error in the colored bulb, so I'm promoting
this version to release candidate.

  https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-DeskLamp/releases

[Cousin Ricky] Re: My contributions: October 2025 update [43 days 16 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Wed, 1 Jul 2026 22:19:05 GMT

On 2025-10-13 15:18 (-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
> 
> DeskLamp links to EnergyStar.  As the president is a climate change
> denier, I will add an early January link from the Wayback Machine.
> Since there are no changes to DeskLamp features since my last upload,
> and (unlike the CDC) EnergyStar misinformation is not a matter of life
> and death, I won't bother uploading the Wayback link before the Object
> Collection comes back online.
> 
> One would think that saving money would be enough to value energy
> efficiency, but we have "coal rollers" in the states who deliberately
> waste fuel for no other reason than to pollute the air.  Sanity is lost
> here.  Hopefully, the president values his own pocketbook and will leave
> EnergyStar alone.

Well, in passing, I just found out that POTUS did indeed try to kill
EnergyStar, but thankfully, Republicans in Congress still value their
own electric bills, and they blocked the attempt.  Nevertheless, the
Wayback link came along for the bug fix that I posted in another thread.

[Alain Martel] Re: Hi everyone, could someone please explain ho... [43 days 17 hours and 12 minutes ago]

Wed, 1 Jul 2026 21:12:52 GMT

Le 2026-06-30 Ã  14:50, jr a Ã©critÂ :
> hi,
> 
> "Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>>> ...
>> <www.f-lohmueller.de/pov_tut/plants/plants_00e.htm>
>>
>> This didn't load for me
>> dropping '<>' made it work
> 
> sorry, yes.  the purpose was/is to prevent long URLs from "breaking" due to
> line-breaking, and until recently (2/3 ? years) double-clicking (in Chrome) on
> the text would highlight all except the brackets.  may need to rethink.. :-)
> 
> 
> regards, jr.
> 

No problem using Thunderbird. Appears directly as a functional link.

[jr] Re: Hi everyone, could someone please explain ho... [44 days 19 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Tue, 30 Jun 2026 18:55:00 GMT

hi,

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > ...
> <www.f-lohmueller.de/pov_tut/plants/plants_00e.htm>
>
> This didn't load for me
> dropping '<>' made it work

sorry, yes.  the purpose was/is to prevent long URLs from "breaking" due to
line-breaking, and until recently (2/3 ? years) double-clicking (in Chrome) on
the text would highlight all except the brackets.  may need to rethink.. :-)

regards, jr.

[Leroy] Re: Hi everyone, could someone please explain ho... [44 days 21 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Tue, 30 Jun 2026 17:00:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > I recently discovered the POV-Tree software, but I'm not sure how to generate a
> > custom tree. Any tips?
>
> <www.f-lohmueller.de/pov_tut/plants/plants_00e.htm>
>
>
> regards, jr.

<www.f-lohmueller.de/pov_tut/plants/plants_00e.htm>

This didn't load for me

dropping '<>' made it work

Have Fun!

[jr] Re: Hi everyone, could someone please explain ho... [45 days 17 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Mon, 29 Jun 2026 21:05:00 GMT

hi,

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> I recently discovered the POV-Tree software, but I'm not sure how to generate a
> custom tree. Any tips?

<www.f-lohmueller.de/pov_tut/plants/plants_00e.htm>


regards, jr.

[Cossack ] Hi everyone, could someone please explain how to... [45 days 18 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Mon, 29 Jun 2026 20:00:00 GMT

I recently discovered the POV-Tree software, but I'm not sure how to generate a
custom tree. Any tips?

[Bald Eagle] Re: SOR documentation [46 days 2 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Mon, 29 Jun 2026 11:30:00 GMT

"boltcapt" <bol### [at] aolcom> wrote:

> I hope this captures what you were looking for. If not, let me know so I can
> refocus.

I think that after going through all of that, you may have added some technical
points and terminology/references of which I was not aware.
Those would be good to have in the documentation.

The larger project, is of course, implementing the fixes discovered for:

The unrendered portions of the revolved spline, due to those portions of the
interpolated Catmull-Rom spline being negative

The first control point not being able to be placed at the same Y value as
another control point (possibly raise a warning and maybe auto-fix)

And the false positive bounding tests that call unnecessary root-solving.

Related to root-solving, there would be the issue of possibly implementing
tighter bounding by the "bounding by proxy Bezier spline method" mentioned in
the thread.

That last could possibly solve some related problems with the sphere_sweep {}
object.

The deep-dive into the how and why of the sor {} and reimplementing it all in
SDL along with various fixes too a lot, and I don't know that currently have
enough mental energy and, more importantly, uninterrupted time to scale the
steep learning curve of learning how to competently code in c++, set up a
machine, and do all of the iterative compiling of edited source and bug-hunting.

So,
The proposal/request would be that you could identify the exact files that need
to be edited, and write the fixes based on my SDL versions, and I could follow
along and try to make sure it all jives with my copious notes,

or

I could edit the source, and you could just do the compiling and supervise the
edits "No, you shouldn't do it that way because" or similar dev code coaching,

or

some mix of the two approaches.

The end goal would be to produce new edited source with excellent commentary and
an eye toward allowing any future changes and extensions without having to
discover fire, invent the wheel, and reverse-engineer the sor {} source code all
over again.

It sounds like a lot, and probably is (isn't everything), but I also think that
since most of the theoretical heavy lifting, and implementation in SDL is
already done, that it might also be a bit easier (in the broad-stroke sense)
than it seems at first glance.

Maybe we can start a new thread and we can discuss the details of what needs
doing and go from there.   I can outline things, you can ask questions, and we
can hammer out a game plan before even touching any code.

Thank you,

Bill "Bald Eagle" Walker

[koppi] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges [47 days 17 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Sat, 27 Jun 2026 20:45:00 GMT

I have successfully addressed the coordinate system conversion from OpenGL to
POV-Ray within the BPP project. You can review the specific changes in the
following commit:

https://github.com/bullet-physics-playground/bpp/commit/ad62e0d7e0cd035819326587057c282af8918a67

Best regards,
koppi

[koppi] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges [47 days 18 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Sat, 27 Jun 2026 19:50:00 GMT

Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
> The actual problem was a negative right vector.

Alain, yes - the primary difference between the OpenGL and POV-Ray coordinate
systems is their handedness. OpenGL traditionally defaults to a right-handed
coordinate system, whereas POV-Ray strictly uses a left-handed coordinate
system.

Changing POV-Ray to a right-handed system requires manually modifying the
camera’s right vector, which frequently breaks built-in shapes and third-party
macro libraries. 10 years ago I changed the right vector in BPP POV-Ray export
to be negative:

https://github.com/bullet-physics-playground/bpp/commit/a01a071a31fc4f263225aa05eb7de655d9c5e37f#diff-0944863e432aaa433
80d43497ccbe58cd8a099832772b0a5ffb9271385e0ddd1R903

But I don't know if this is the correct way of doing the OpenGL to POV-Ray
export or if there is a better solution; the cleaner, more standard solution is
to keep POV-Ray's camera completely default (left-handed) and convert the OpenGL
coordinate data (positions, rotations, and matrices) directly during the export
phase.

I think I need to rewrite the rotation or positioning routines inside BPP:
 1. Transform Positions and Direction Vectors
 2. Transform Rotations
 3. Transforming Full 4x4 Matrices

[Alain Martel] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges [47 days 20 hours and 27 minutes ago]

Sat, 27 Jun 2026 17:57:29 GMT

Le 2026-06-26 Ã  15:18, Maetes a Ã©critÂ :
> "koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> 
>> I tried scale <-1,1,1>, and scale <1,-1,1> and scale <1,1,-1>, but that did not
>> work.
> 
> That has to work.
> Maybe you scaled the wrong thing?
> I ask that because I often modify in the the wrong place and am ashamed to the
> ground afterwards :)
> 
> ma
> 

The actual problem was a negative right vector.

[Cossack ] Re: I=3D92m looking for a 3D converter that work... [48 days and 5 minutes ago]

Sat, 27 Jun 2026 14:20:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 24/06/2026 14:08, Cossack wrote:
> > Excuse me, do you know of any converter that can convert from one format, for
> > example .obj, to .pov, for use in a terminal utility or for coding?
>
> Although this is not a terminal, but browser-based converter, maybe you
> will find it useful to convert obj, fbx, glb, gltf, stl to mesh2:
> https://povlab.yesbird.online/studio/
> --
> YB

of course, thank you, but I need it in the format of some utility, I also work
on the phone, which makes all attempts to access the site that I know of
impossible

[yesbird] Re: How about a Gaussian Splat primitive in Povr... [48 days 1 hour and 15 minutes ago]

Sat, 27 Jun 2026 13:09:54 GMT

On 27/06/2026 15:57, yesbird wrote:> Thanks so much for pointing to this 
technology, not seen itÂ before.

Was very impressed by this site:
https://superspl.at/
-- 
YB

[Cossack ] I managed to create a fake radiosity [48 days 1 hour and 20 minutes ago]

Sat, 27 Jun 2026 13:05:00 GMT

I made some demo images which you can view in the zip package

[yesbird] Re: How about a Gaussian Splat primitive in Povr... [48 days 1 hour and 27 minutes ago]

Sat, 27 Jun 2026 12:57:58 GMT

On 26/06/2026 08:05, Paul Bourke wrote:
> Subject says it all.
> 

Thanks so much for pointing to this technology, not seen itÂ before.

If I understand well, oneÂ ofÂ advantages is rendering performance
for
real-time applications.Not sure if POV-Ray implementation will give
better qualityÂ to sacrificeÂ thisÂ feature.
--
YB

[jr] Re: Distributed POV-Ray Rendering and Some SDL E... [48 days 7 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Sat, 27 Jun 2026 06:35:00 GMT

hi,

"boltcapt" <bol### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> "Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> > "boltcapt" <bol### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> > ...
> > > with five new function types: userfun(), uservectfun(), usercolorfun(),
> > > useruv(), and userfracfun(), returning scalar, vector, color, UV, and 4D values
> > > respectively.
> > > For example:
> > > uservectfun("curl_field", x, y, z)
> > > where curl_field is a function exported by a dynamically loaded plugin.
> >
> > The other stuff sounds great, but plugins sound fantastic!
> >
> > I am VERY eager to hear more.
> >
> > Also, you seem to have a highly desirable skill set.
> > I have done an extensive amount of work tracking down some issues with source
> > code, but now find myself with limited time to get that implemented in a patch.
> >
> >
https://news.povray.org/povray.documentation.inbuilt/thread/%3Cweb.68bdae61251da1bc1f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.o
rg
> %3
> > E/
> >
> > Do you think that you could possibly help me get that work pushed across the
> > finish line so that all the time and effort was not wasted?
> >
> > - BE
>
> Happy to provide you with a good sample of a plugin package. It's long, but I
> can email it.

could you also be interested in putting together a wiki page[*] to document your
work ?  tia.

[*] MediaWiki, would be happy to assist with markup etc if you provide
"content".


regards, jr.

[boltcapt] Re: Distributed POV-Ray Rendering and Some SDL E... [48 days 11 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Sat, 27 Jun 2026 03:10:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "boltcapt" <bol### [at] aolcom> wrote:
>
> > I also added a feature that I personally felt was missing from POV-Ray: the
> > ability to call precompiled native functions directly from the Scene Description
> > Language. To support this, I developed a plugin system and extended the parser
> > with five new function types: userfun(), uservectfun(), usercolorfun(),
> > useruv(), and userfracfun(), returning scalar, vector, color, UV, and 4D values
> > respectively.
> > For example:
> > uservectfun("curl_field", x, y, z)
> > where curl_field is a function exported by a dynamically loaded plugin.
>
> The other stuff sounds great, but plugins sound fantastic!
>
> I am VERY eager to hear more.
>
> Also, you seem to have a highly desirable skill set.
> I have done an extensive amount of work tracking down some issues with source
> code, but now find myself with limited time to get that implemented in a patch.
>
>
https://news.povray.org/povray.documentation.inbuilt/thread/%3Cweb.68bdae61251da1bc1f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org
%3
> E/
>
> Do you think that you could possibly help me get that work pushed across the
> finish line so that all the time and effort was not wasted?
>
> - BE

Happy to provide you with a good sample of a plugin package. It's long, but I
can email it.

[Maetes] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges [48 days 19 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Fri, 26 Jun 2026 19:20:00 GMT

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> I tried scale <-1,1,1>, and scale <1,-1,1> and scale <1,1,-1>, but that did not
> work.

That has to work.
Maybe you scaled the wrong thing?
I ask that because I often modify in the the wrong place and am ashamed to the
ground afterwards :)

ma

[boltcapt] Re: SOR documentation [48 days 20 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Fri, 26 Jun 2026 18:05:00 GMT

Here is what I have. It is based on this source:
- `povray-3.7.0.10/source/backend/shape/sor.cpp` - `Sor::Compute_Sor()` (the
spline fit), `Sor::Intersect()`, `Sor::Inside()`, `Sor::Normal()`
- `povray-3.7.0.10/source/backend/parser/parse.cpp` - `Parser::Parse_Sor()`

The upstream `master/source/core/shape/sor.cpp` is the same algorithm,
only renamed/namespaced.

---

The SOR curve is a **single-valued function of height**: radius-squared as a
function of height,

r^2 = f(h) = A*h^3 + B*h^2 + C*h + D        (one cubic per segment)

(`sor.cpp:47-49`). It stores `r^2`, not `r`, because the ray-surface equation
`(Pu + k Du)^2 + (Pv + k Dv)^2 = f(Pw + k Dw)` is then a **cubic in k**
(`sor.cpp:51-56`, set up at `sor.cpp:370-381`). That is the "solving a cubic
polynomial" claim on the wiki - it is true *for the SOR primitive specifically*
because the SOR spline is always this height-cubic. (See section 6 on the lathe
comparison you flagged.)

Because it is a function of height, **interior control points must strictly
increase in height** - enforced at `parse.cpp:5816-5820`. You cannot make a
curve that doubles back in h with a SOR; that is what `lathe` is for.

You asked "which control points get used?"

`Parse_Sor()` (`parse.cpp:5780-5843`):

- Requires **>= 4 points** (`parse.cpp:5799`).
- Reads `Number` points, each a 2D vector `<radius, height>` (x = radius,
  y = height; z unused) (`parse.cpp:5808-5821`).
- Then **`Object->Number -= 3`** (`parse.cpp:5839`) - comment: *"There are
  Number-3 segments!"*

So for **N input points there are N-3 segments.** Indexing the points P[0..N-1]:

- The **drawn surface runs from P[1] (base) to P[N-2] (cap)**.
- **P[0] and P[N-1] are "phantom" points** - they are never on the surface.
  They exist only to supply the end tangents (`sor.cpp:75-77`).

Segment `i` (`i = 0 .. N-4`, loop at `sor.cpp:1028`) is bounded by **P[i+1]
(lower) and P[i+2] (upper)**, and additionally reads **P[i] and P[i+3]** as the
outboard neighbors used purely for slope estimation. So **four control points
feed every segment**: the two endpoints plus one neighbor on each side. That is
the Catmull-Rom stencil, and it is the direct answer to "which control points
get used."

The interior tangents are **central finite differences** over the two
neighbors. In `Compute_Sor` (`sor.cpp:1038-1044`):

k[0] = P[i+1].x^2;                                  // r1^2  = f(h1)
k[1] = P[i+2].x^2;                                  // r2^2  = f(h2)
k[2] = (P[i+2].x - P[i].x)   / (P[i+2].y - P[i].y); // dr/dh at lower point
(secant of its neighbors)
k[3] = (P[i+3].x - P[i+1].x) / (P[i+3].y - P[i+1].y);// dr/dh at upper point
k[2] *= 2.0 * P[i+1].x;                             // chain rule: d(r^2)/dh =
2r * dr/dh
k[3] *= 2.0 * P[i+2].x;

Using P1,P2 for the segment endpoints and P0,P3 for the outboard neighbors
(heights h0..h3, radii r0..r3):

- tangent at the lower point = `(r2 - r0)/(h2 - h0)`
- tangent at the upper point = `(r3 - r1)/(h3 - h1)`

That is the **non-uniform Catmull-Rom tangent** (the cardinal-spline tension-0
case), written in finite-difference form for unequally spaced knots. Two
nuances worth putting in the docs:

1. The tangent is computed in **radius** space, then converted to **radius^2**
   space by the chain rule `d(r^2)/dh = 2r*dr/dh` (the `2.0 * P[..].x` factors).
   So the fit is a cubic Hermite in `(h, r^2)` whose slopes come from a
   Catmull-Rom estimate in `(h, r)`.
2. Tangents use the actual heights (`h2-h0`, `h3-h1`), i.e. it is the
   **non-uniform / centripetal-style parameterization by h**, not the uniform
   `(P_{i+1}-P_{i-1})/2` form.

This is exactly the Andrew-Hung "Catmull-Rom in plain English" construction you
found - applied to r^2 vs h.

I think this gets at what you are looking for:

For each segment we have a cubic with 4 unknowns `[A, B, C, D]` and 4 Hermite
constraints (value + slope at each endpoint):

f(h1)  = r1^2
f(h2)  = r2^2
f'(h1) = 2*r1*(r2 - r0)/(h2 - h0)
f'(h2) = 2*r2*(r3 - r1)/(h3 - h1)

with `f(h)  = A h^3 + B h^2 + C h + D`
and  `f'(h) = 3A h^2 + 2B h + C`.

Writing the four constraints as `M x = b`:

        | h1^3   h1^2   h1   1 |   | A |   | r1^2          |   | k0 |
  M x = | h2^3   h2^2   h2   1 | * | B | = | r2^2          | = | k1 | = b
        | 3h1^2  2h1    1    0 |   | C |   | f'(h1)        |   | k2 |
        | 3h2^2  2h2    1    0 |   | D |   | f'(h2)        |   | k3 |

This is **built verbatim** at `sor.cpp:1046-1068`:

| code                                      | row              | meaning
     |
|-------------------------------------------|------------------|----------------------|
| `Mat[0]` with `w=P[i+1].y` (`:1048-1051`) | `[w^3 w^2 w 1]`  | value at lower
point |
| `Mat[1]` with `w=P[i+2].y` (`:1060-1063`) | `[w^3 w^2 w 1]`  | value at upper
point |
| `Mat[2]` with `w=P[i+1].y` (`:1053-1056`) | `[3w^2 2w 1 0]`  | slope at lower
point |
| `Mat[3]` with `w=P[i+2].y` (`:1065-1068`) | `[3w^2 2w 1 0]`  | slope at upper
point |

**The key point the wiki omits:** in `b = M x`,
- **`b` is the *known* right-hand side** - the radius^2 values and the slopes,
  computed straight from the control points (the `k[]` array).
- **`M` is *known*** - just powers of the two endpoint heights.
- **`x = [A,B,C,D]` is the *unknown*** we are solving for.

So you solve it the only way you can: **`x = M^-1 * b`.** your instinct
("x = b/M") is correct - for a matrix that "division" is inversion. The code
does precisely this:

MInvers(Mat, Mat);                                   // sor.cpp:1070  -> Mat =
M^-1
A = k0*Mat[0][0] + k1*Mat[0][1] + k2*Mat[0][2] + k3*Mat[0][3];  // :1074  (row 0
of M^-1 * b)
B = ... Mat[1] ...                                   // :1075
C = ... Mat[2] ...                                   // :1076
D = ... Mat[3] ...                                   // :1077

So the wiki's "calculate b, then b = M x" reads backwards because it never says
*x is the unknown and you invert M*. The doc should state: build M from the two
heights, build b from the control-point radii and the Catmull-Rom slopes, then
`[A B C D]^T = M^-1 b`.

You had a concern about division by zero. The zeros in rows 3 and 4
(`Mat[2][3]=0`, `Mat[3][3]=0`, `sor.cpp:1056,1068`)
are simply the **D-column of the derivative rows**: differentiating
`A h^3+B h^2+C h+D` kills the constant term, so the coefficient on D in `f'(h)`
is
0. They are *entries of the matrix*, not *divisors*. Inversion (`MInvers`) is
Gaussian elimination; it never divides by those structural zeros.

The matrix is non-singular as long as the **two endpoint heights differ**,
`h1 != h2`, which is guaranteed by the strict-monotonic-height rule
(`parse.cpp:5816-5820`) and re-checked against degenerate neighbor spacing at
`sor.cpp:1030-1034` (`fabs(P[i+2].y - P[i].y) < EPSILON` -> error). So there is
no division by zero. (The only divisions in the whole construction are the two
finite-difference denominators `h2-h0` and `h3-h1`, both protected by that same
check.)

After solving, coefficients with magnitude `< EPSILON` are snapped to 0
(`sor.cpp:1079-1082`) purely to speed later polynomial solves.

You are right about the two meanings of h. The doc reuses one symbol for
two different things:

- In **M and b**, `h` (the code's `w = P[i+1].y`, `P[i+2].y`) is a **fixed
  number**: the height of a specific control point. These are constants of the
  linear system.
- In **`f(h) = A h^3 + B h^2 + C h + D`**, `h` is the **free running variable**:
  any height inside the segment `[h1, h2]`. Once A,B,C,D are known you evaluate
  the cubic at any such h to get r^2 there. That evaluation **is** the
  interpolation you said you "couldn't see."

Doc fix: use distinct symbols, e.g. `h_j , h_{j+1}` for the endpoint heights in
M/b, and a separate `h` (or `w`) for the argument of `f`.

Where the running form is used in the engine, for cross-reference:
- `Inside()` evaluates `f(h)` by Horner: `r = h*(h*(h*A+B)+C)+D`
(`sor.cpp:479`).
- `Normal()` uses `f'(h)/2`: `0.5*(h*(3A h+2B)+C)` -> normal `(x, -f'/2, z)`
  (`sor.cpp:547-551`).
- Cap/base radii are `f(h)` at the top/bottom heights (`sor.cpp:1143-1167`).

You are right that the wiki sentence about the sor vs lathe polynomial order.
It is imprecise. The SOR primitive is *always* the
the height-cubic of section 1, so its ray test is *always* a cubic (degree 3,
`Solve_Polynomial(3, ...)` at `sor.cpp:381`). The `lathe` object, by contrast,
supports `linear_spline`, `quadratic_spline`, `cubic_spline`, and
`bezier_spline` (`parse.cpp:2950-2956`), and its splines are parametric `(r(t),
h(t))` rather than `r^2=f(h)`. The "6th-order polynomial" figure applies only to
lathe's **cubic** spline case, not to lathe in general. The doc should say "a
cubic lathe segment requires a 6th-degree solve" rather than implying every
lathe does.

I hope this captures what you were looking for. If not, let me know so I can
refocus.

[ingo] Re: How about a Gaussian Splat primitive in Povr... [48 days 20 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Fri, 26 Jun 2026 17:54:27 GMT

On 2026-06-26 07:05, Paul Bourke wrote:
> Subject says it all.
> 

Yes please ;)

I've seen some very good results but have no clue whatsoever how it works.

ingo

[koppi] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges [48 days 22 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Fri, 26 Jun 2026 15:45:00 GMT

jvp's original POV-Ray project files of the box with oranges scene are at (- if
you want to experiment):

> http://www.ignorancia.org/index.php?page=a-box-of-oranges

Hth,
koppi

[Paul Bourke] How about a Gaussian Splat primitive in Povray? [49 days 9 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Fri, 26 Jun 2026 05:10:00 GMT

Subject says it all.

[Bald Eagle] Re: Distributed POV-Ray Rendering and Some SDL E... [49 days 15 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Thu, 25 Jun 2026 22:45:00 GMT

"boltcapt" <bol### [at] aolcom> wrote:

> I also added a feature that I personally felt was missing from POV-Ray: the
> ability to call precompiled native functions directly from the Scene Description
> Language. To support this, I developed a plugin system and extended the parser
> with five new function types: userfun(), uservectfun(), usercolorfun(),
> useruv(), and userfracfun(), returning scalar, vector, color, UV, and 4D values
> respectively.
> For example:
> uservectfun("curl_field", x, y, z)
> where curl_field is a function exported by a dynamically loaded plugin.

The other stuff sounds great, but plugins sound fantastic!

I am VERY eager to hear more.

Also, you seem to have a highly desirable skill set.
I have done an extensive amount of work tracking down some issues with source
code, but now find myself with limited time to get that implemented in a patch.

https://news.povray.org/povray.documentation.inbuilt/thread/%3Cweb.68bdae61251da1bc1f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org%3
E/

Do you think that you could possibly help me get that work pushed across the
finish line so that all the time and effort was not wasted?

- BE

[Bald Eagle] Re: Distributed POV-Ray Rendering and Some SDL E... [49 days 15 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Thu, 25 Jun 2026 22:45:00 GMT

That question has been answered as recently as this thread:

https://news.povray.org/povray.off-topic/message/%3Cweb.6a23f45069259b1fd1d09a9825979125%40news.povray.org%3E/#%3Cweb.6
a23f45069259b1fd1d09a9825979125%40news.povray.org%3E

Just don't use any UTF-8 characters and all should be fine.

- BE

[boltcapt] Re: Distributed POV-Ray Rendering and Some SDL E... [49 days 17 hours ago]

Thu, 25 Jun 2026 21:25:00 GMT

"boltcapt" <bol### [at] aolcom> wrote:

the blank 9th line should read:

performance is even more interesting: total speedups range from 17x to 63x,

I have no idea why it was deleted

> I have been a POV-Ray fan for a long time. I know there have been several
> approaches to distributed rendering over the years, but after retiring I was
> looking for a project and decided to create my own distributed client-server
> rendering system, using POV-Ray 3.7.0.10 as the base.
>
> So far the results have been encouraging. With 8 clients, measured speedup for
> still-image rendering ranges from 88.4% to 98.2% scaling efficiency, depending
> on image size and complexity (larger, more complex images scale best). Animation
>
> depending on scene characteristics. These gains come not only from distributing
> work across clients, but also from parser and caching optimizations that
> eliminate a significant amount of repeated work.
>
> Here is a summary of the project.
>
> For hardware, I wanted to see what could be accomplished with a cluster of
> Raspberry Pi 5 Compute Modules. To that end I built two self-contained four-node
> Pi clusters. I'm happy to share hardware details if anyone is interested, but
> the hardware is not really the focus of this post.
>
> The more interesting work was creating the client-server software environment.
> Starting with POV-Ray 3.7.0.10, I modified the renderer to operate as a
> non-terminating client and optimized it for distributed operation. The server
> assigns work and collects results. Work distribution itself is straightforward:
> still images are divided into row ranges, while animations are distributed one
> frame per client.
>
> The key client-side modifications are aimed at avoiding unnecessary repeated
> work. Each client maintains a single persistent POV-Ray session across multiple
> tasks and renders. Parsed scene information is cached so that repeated renders
> of the same scene do not require reparsing. In addition, I modified the parser
> to support a static keyword, allowing large clock-independent structures to be
> cached and reused between animation frames. Similar concepts have been explored
> before, but the persistent-session architecture makes this particularly
> effective.
>
> I also added a feature that I personally felt was missing from POV-Ray: the
> ability to call precompiled native functions directly from the Scene Description
> Language. To support this, I developed a plugin system and extended the parser
> with five new function types: userfun(), uservectfun(), usercolorfun(),
> useruv(), and userfracfun(), returning scalar, vector, color, UV, and 4D values
> respectively.
> For example:
> uservectfun("curl_field", x, y, z)
> where curl_field is a function exported by a dynamically loaded plugin.
>
> The server side includes a number of supporting capabilities, including
> heartbeat monitoring, failed-task reassignment, thermal management, archive
> reuse, and delta synchronization of include files.
>
> I'd be interested in hearing whether others have experimented with similar
> persistent-session approaches, parser extensions, or SDL plugin mechanisms.

[boltcapt] Distributed POV-Ray Rendering and Some SDL Enhan... [49 days 17 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Thu, 25 Jun 2026 21:00:00 GMT

I have been a POV-Ray fan for a long time. I know there have been several
approaches to distributed rendering over the years, but after retiring I was
looking for a project and decided to create my own distributed client-server
rendering system, using POV-Ray 3.7.0.10 as the base.

So far the results have been encouraging. With 8 clients, measured speedup for
still-image rendering ranges from 88.4% to 98.2% scaling efficiency, depending
on image size and complexity (larger, more complex images scale best). Animation
performance is even more interesting: total speedups range from 17× to 63×,
depending on scene characteristics. These gains come not only from distributing
work across clients, but also from parser and caching optimizations that
eliminate a significant amount of repeated work.

Here is a summary of the project.

For hardware, I wanted to see what could be accomplished with a cluster of
Raspberry Pi 5 Compute Modules. To that end I built two self-contained four-node
Pi clusters. I'm happy to share hardware details if anyone is interested, but
the hardware is not really the focus of this post.

The more interesting work was creating the client-server software environment.
Starting with POV-Ray 3.7.0.10, I modified the renderer to operate as a
non-terminating client and optimized it for distributed operation. The server
assigns work and collects results. Work distribution itself is straightforward:
still images are divided into row ranges, while animations are distributed one
frame per client.

The key client-side modifications are aimed at avoiding unnecessary repeated
work. Each client maintains a single persistent POV-Ray session across multiple
tasks and renders. Parsed scene information is cached so that repeated renders
of the same scene do not require reparsing. In addition, I modified the parser
to support a static keyword, allowing large clock-independent structures to be
cached and reused between animation frames. Similar concepts have been explored
before, but the persistent-session architecture makes this particularly
effective.

I also added a feature that I personally felt was missing from POV-Ray: the
ability to call precompiled native functions directly from the Scene Description
Language. To support this, I developed a plugin system and extended the parser
with five new function types: userfun(), uservectfun(), usercolorfun(),
useruv(), and userfracfun(), returning scalar, vector, color, UV, and 4D values
respectively.
For example:
uservectfun("curl_field", x, y, z)
where curl_field is a function exported by a dynamically loaded plugin.

The server side includes a number of supporting capabilities, including
heartbeat monitoring, failed-task reassignment, thermal management, archive
reuse, and delta synchronization of include files.

I'd be interested in hearing whether others have experimented with similar
persistent-session approaches, parser extensions, or SDL plugin mechanisms.

[yesbird] Re: I=92m looking for a 3D converter that works ... [50 days 3 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Thu, 25 Jun 2026 10:44:01 GMT

On 24/06/2026 14:08, Cossack wrote:
> Excuse me, do you know of any converter that can convert from one format, for
> example .obj, to .pov, for use in a terminal utility or for coding?

Although this is not a terminal, but browser-based converter, maybe you
will find it useful to convert obj, fbx, glb, gltf, stl to mesh2:
https://povlab.yesbird.online/studio/
-- 
YB

[jr] Re: I=3D3D92m looking for a 3D converter that wo... [50 days 4 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Thu, 25 Jun 2026 10:00:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > Excuse me, do you know of any converter that can convert from one format, for
> > example .obj, to .pov, for use in a terminal utility or for coding?

Google dug up this:
<github.com/JossWhittle/Obj2Pov>


regards, jr.

[jr] Re: I=3D92m looking for a 3D converter that work... [50 days 7 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Thu, 25 Jun 2026 06:40:00 GMT

hi,

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Excuse me, do you know of any converter that can convert from one format, for
> example .obj, to .pov, for use in a terminal utility or for coding?

PoseRay is apparently the tool to use, though it has an UI:
<news.povray.org/povray.newusers/thread/%3Clq8gb4to0hscidm9dukt6h8dnsk390vk2l%404ax.com%3E/>

for STL conversion, you could use GTS as an intermediate format, eg:
  $ stl2gts someobj.stl | gts2pov > someobj.inc

there are several stl2gts converters, and one 'gts2pov' (see my wiki page)


regards, jr.

[Cossack ] I=92m looking for a 3D converter that works in t... [51 days 3 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Wed, 24 Jun 2026 11:10:00 GMT

Excuse me, do you know of any converter that can convert from one format, for
example .obj, to .pov, for use in a terminal utility or for coding?

[Peter Markley] Re: Recovered old POV-Ray scenes [51 days 17 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 21:09:14 GMT

On 6/23/26 6:52 AM, Bald Eagle wrote:
> It was a busy weekend for me, but I made some time to watch the video.

I'm flattered that you made it a priority, how kind!

> (Especially amusing was when you said, "... you decided that I was old enough
> for you to teach me about Pov-Ray.")  :D
lol That's my dad for ya

Thank you for sharing your reaction, and for the kind words!! :-)

-- 
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient
1}}translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+
asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="
};#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[koppi] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges [51 days 19 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:50:00 GMT

Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
> This line flips the whole image :
> right - image_width/image_height*x
> Change to :
> right image_width/image_height*x

Alain, than you - changing the right line in the camera scope now works.

[koppi] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges [51 days 19 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:45:00 GMT

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Ok. Render with "povray +D box-w-oranges.ini +K49 +KFI49 +KFF49 +KI49 +KF49"

Forgot to include 3 files. updated zip.

[koppi] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges [51 days 19 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:40:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> please post a zip with scene, logo, etc.  will make time tonight.  tia.

Ok. Render with "povray +D box-w-oranges.ini +K49 +KFI49 +KFF49 +KI49 +KF49"

[Alain Martel] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges [51 days 19 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:38:52 GMT

Le 2026-06-23 Ã  13:39, koppi a Ã©critÂ :
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> negatively scaling a given axis can often do the trick, eg '<-1,1,1>' to flip X,
>> unsure about your situation.
> 
> Maybe I need to change the camera settings? - :
> 
> // Include file generated by Bullet Physics Playground
> // 2026-06-23 19:33:14 by koppi
> #declare use_focal_blur = 0; // 0=off 1=low quality 10=high quality
> 
> camera {
>    location < -47.0793, 40.3916, -2.00584 >
>    right - image_width/image_height*x
>    look_at <816111, -576540, 37955.3>   angle 66.2759
>    sky <0.576982, 0.816757, 0.000449072>
> #if(use_focal_blur)
>    aperture 0
>    blur_samples 10*use_focal_blur
>    focal_point <0, 0, 0>   confidence 0.9+(use_focal_blur*0.0085)
>    variance 1/(2000*use_focal_blur)
> #end
> }
> 
> 
> 

This line flips the whole image :
right - image_width/image_height*x
Change to :
right image_width/image_height*x

[Alain Martel] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges [51 days 19 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:36:07 GMT

Le 2026-06-23 Ã  11:42, koppi a Ã©critÂ :
> Hi, the texture in the box of oranges scene is sonehow flipped from right to
> left. I want to fix this but do not know how. Can anybody give me a hint how to
> flip the logo image_map texture?
> 
> #declare m_madera_cajon=
> material{
>    texture{
>      pigment{
>        image_map{jpeg "flat_wood_4022164.JPG" interpolate 2}
>      }
>      normal{
>        bump_map{jpeg "flat_wood_4022164.JPG" bump_size 1}
>      }
>      rotate 90*z
>      scale .5
>    }
>    texture{
>      pigment{
>        image_map{png "logo" interpolate 2}
>      }
>    }
> }
> 
> --
> koppi
> 
I see 2 easy ways :
1) Change rotate 90*z for rotate -90*z
2) Change image_map{png "logo" interpolate 2} to image_map{png "logo" 
interpolate 2 scale <-1, 1, -1>}

[jr] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges [51 days 20 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:20:00 GMT

hi,

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > negatively scaling a given axis ...
>
> Maybe I need to change the camera settings? - :

please post a zip with scene, logo, etc.  will make time tonight.  tia.


regards, jr.

[koppi] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges [51 days 20 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 17:40:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> negatively scaling a given axis can often do the trick, eg '<-1,1,1>' to flip X,
> unsure about your situation.

Maybe I need to change the camera settings? - :

// Include file generated by Bullet Physics Playground
// 2026-06-23 19:33:14 by koppi
#declare use_focal_blur = 0; // 0=off 1=low quality 10=high quality

camera {
  location < -47.0793, 40.3916, -2.00584 >
  right - image_width/image_height*x
  look_at <816111, -576540, 37955.3>   angle 66.2759
  sky <0.576982, 0.816757, 0.000449072>
#if(use_focal_blur)
  aperture 0
  blur_samples 10*use_focal_blur
  focal_point <0, 0, 0>   confidence 0.9+(use_focal_blur*0.0085)
  variance 1/(2000*use_focal_blur)
#end
}

[koppi] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges [51 days 20 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 17:40:00 GMT

jr,

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> negatively scaling a given axis can often do the trick, eg '<-1,1,1>' to flip X,
> unsure about your situation.

I tried scale <-1,1,1>, and scale <1,-1,1> and scale <1,1,-1>, but that did not
work.

[jr] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges [51 days 22 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 16:20:00 GMT

hi,

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Hi, the texture in the box of oranges scene is sonehow flipped from right to
> left. I want to fix this but do not know how. Can anybody give me a hint how to
> flip the logo image_map texture?

negatively scaling a given axis can often do the trick, eg '<-1,1,1>' to flip X,
unsure about your situation.

regards, jr.

[koppi] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges [51 days 22 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 15:55:00 GMT

[koppi] Jaimes Box of Oranges [51 days 22 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 15:45:00 GMT

Hi, the texture in the box of oranges scene is sonehow flipped from right to
left. I want to fix this but do not know how. Can anybody give me a hint how to
flip the logo image_map texture?

#declare m_madera_cajon=
material{
  texture{
    pigment{
      image_map{jpeg "flat_wood_4022164.JPG" interpolate 2}
    }
    normal{
      bump_map{jpeg "flat_wood_4022164.JPG" bump_size 1}
    }
    rotate 90*z
    scale .5
  }
  texture{
    pigment{
      image_map{png "logo" interpolate 2}
    }
  }
}

--
koppi

[Bald Eagle] Re: Recovered old POV-Ray scenes [52 days 3 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 10:55:00 GMT

Hi Peter,

It was a busy weekend for me, but I made some time to watch the video.

It's pretty impressive that your dad was able to write a raytracer, drivers, and
other software from scratch!

I also liked the historical thread linking your dad's early renders, Pixar, and
your attempts to recreate them.

Especially interesting was the process to create that heart!
Making a clay model and then actually slicing it and "scanning" it by hand!
It's just about the complete reverse of 3D printing - going from the 3D object
to a projection in 2D.  :O

Looking forward to more interesting ideas and Pov-Ray scenes!

- BE

(Especially amusing was when you said, "... you decided that I was old enough
for you to teach me about Pov-Ray.")  :D

[Cousin Ricky] DeskLamp 2.0.2-beta bug fix [54 days 18 hours and 52 minutes ago]

Sat, 20 Jun 2026 19:33:02 GMT

I have fixed a bug where the lamp hood illumination is brighter than the
bulb that illuminates it.  This bug manifested only for colored bulbs
with non-radiosity scenes; and for non-HDR formats, only when the light
was very dim or the bulb color was fully saturated.

I am still investigating the finish on the colored bulb itself.

DeskLamp version 2.0.2 is in beta at
 https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-DeskLamp/releases/tag/v2.0.2-beta.1

[ingo] Kubelka & Munk like colour mixing [56 days 6 hours and 38 minutes ago]

Fri, 19 Jun 2026 07:47:08 GMT

As a reference for a future POV-Ray version, a better way of mixing 
colours as ink / paint (colour_map etc.). Can be optional for backwards 
compatibility.

Paper: https://scrtwpns.com/mixbox.pdf
Video: https://youtu.be/ATzVPVNp1qA
Talk: https://youtu.be/_qa5iWdfNKg
Demo: https://scrtwpns.com/mixbox/painter

Code: https://github.com/scrtwpns/mixbox
Docs: https://scrtwpns.com/mixbox/docs/

ingo

[jr] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t... [56 days 19 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Thu, 18 Jun 2026 19:10:00 GMT

hi,

=?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_=22Yadgar=22_Bleimann?= <yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:
> ... German wilderness infested with wolves and neo-Nazis

</lol>  I'm with Heine -- "Denk Ich an Deutschland in der Nacht ..."


> straight to Berlin

1000 Berlin 65.  used to be real nice, back when.


regards, jr.

[Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t... [57 days 1 hour and 26 minutes ago]

Thu, 18 Jun 2026 12:59:13 GMT

Hi(gh)!

Am 15.06.26 um 12:30 schrieb jr:
> hi,
> 
> =?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_=22Yadgar=22_Bleimann?= <yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:
>> Hi(gh)!
>> ... here is what I got ...
> 
> if your mate still doesn't buy a new laptop now, idk, will you (need to) break
> arms ?!  </grin>
> 
> regards, jr.
> 

I'll jump on my bicycle, battle my way through East German wilderness 
infested with wolves and neo-Nazis straight to Berlin and bring him a 
laptop I already bought for him about three years ago!

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

[Mr] Re: how to make a blurry reflection? [57 days 2 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Thu, 18 Jun 2026 11:45:00 GMT

Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:

> =====================================================
>
> With version 3.8 and radiosity, you can get blurred metallic reflection
> using brilliance.
> Need to add «brilliance on» in the radiosity block.
> Need the surface to have a pretty high brilliance. Typically 100 to 1000.
> This blurring seems to be similar to phong highlights : Higher value =
> more and sharper reflection.

Do you have example images of the results? I had never heard of this method
which seems awesome as it allows all other normal mapping to still be taken
advantage of, doesn't it? besides it somewhat feels physically correct... is it?

[Peter Markley] Re: Recovered old POV-Ray scenes [57 days 16 hours and 18 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Jun 2026 22:06:19 GMT

The premiere will be in 24 hours now! :-D

-- 
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient
1}}translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+
asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="
};#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[Peter Markley] Re: POV-Ray Mosaic Memes [57 days 17 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Jun 2026 20:40:28 GMT

On 6/17/26 10:42 AM, kurtz le pirate wrote:
> Yeah, it works... but it produces a really strange images.
> Take a look at the attached image.
Oh, I only just now noticed that some of the colors are wrong in your 
render. That's very strange.

However the fact that the face is discernible makes me think it's not a 
decoding issue in the frame data.

In fact I can reproduce your render if I change this `.4>` to `0>` (see 
attached). I don't know how that could've gotten stomped on, but that 
looks like what happened.

-- 
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient
1}}translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+
asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="
};#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[Peter Markley] Re: POV-Ray Mosaic Memes [57 days 18 hours and 19 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Jun 2026 20:06:00 GMT

On 6/17/26 10:42 AM, kurtz le pirate wrote:
> On 17/06/2026 12:05, jr wrote:
> I suspect that the image is hard-coded in little-endian mode.
> See <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness>

I think it's big-endian. Right here:

#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end

Each number is encoded as 2 ASCII characters and the above macro decodes 
them. The first character (`substr(h,1,1)`) after conversion to a 
codepoint is multiplied by 16, whereas the second character 
(`substr(h,2,1)`) is not. So the more significant "digit" comes first.

Unless I'm having a dyslexic moment, that's big-endian.

-- 
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient
1}}translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+
asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="
};#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[Peter Markley] Re: POV-Ray Mosaic Memes [57 days 18 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Jun 2026 20:00:36 GMT

On 6/17/26 5:50 AM, jr wrote:
> (also, it _is_ possible to format code in a readable manner ;-))

lol But where's the fun in that? :-P

My goal was compact / short code, sort of like my signature. I also 
planned to show the code onscreen in a YouTube short (see attached), and 
making it compact helps with that.

Making it technically decipherable but obscure also enhances the "wow" 
effect, like a magic trick.

-- 
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient
1}}translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+
asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="
};#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[jr] Re: POV-Ray Mosaic Memes [57 days 19 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Jun 2026 18:55:00 GMT

hi,

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> On 17/06/2026 12:05, jr wrote:
> > it does run.  I used, as always, my 'povparse' command alias to check, without
> > specifying the frames, "my bad".
>
> Yeah, it works... but it produces a really strange images.
> Take a look at the attached image.

</grin>  also, maybe it's just "my eyes", but I find the images, the method,
very sensitive to resizing, have you, anyone else, noticed ?

> I suspect that the image is hard-coded in little-endian mode.
> See <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness>

yes, the data does look "intriguing", hope to find time to look closer :-).

> As a general rule, to test scenes that include animations and avoid this
> kind of problem, simply add these lines:

thanks, as always.  for my own scenes I write ini files, usually.

regards, jr.

[kurtz le pirate] Re: POV-Ray Mosaic Memes [57 days 23 hours and 42 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Jun 2026 14:42:40 GMT

On 17/06/2026 12:05, jr wrote:

> 
> it does run.  I used, as always, my 'povparse' command alias to check, without
> specifying the frames, "my bad".

Yeah, it works... but it produces a really strange images.
Take a look at the attached image.
I suspect that the image is hard-coded in little-endian mode.
See <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness>

As a general rule, to test scenes that include animations and avoid this 
kind of problem, simply add these lines:

#if (clock_on)
   #local fr = frame_number-1;
#else
   #local fr = 0;
#end

;)

-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[jr] Re: POV-Ray Mosaic Memes [58 days 4 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Jun 2026 10:10:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> > └── you_are_a_toy
> is the one I decided to try first.  no dice, parse error, see attached.

it does run.  I used, as always, my 'povparse' command alias to check, without
specifying the frames, "my bad".


regards, jr.

[jr] Re: POV-Ray Mosaic Memes [58 days 4 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Jun 2026 09:55:00 GMT

hi,

Peter Markley <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> This is definitely a case where "one thing led to another ..." lol
> ...
> ZIP contents:
> ...
> └── you_are_a_toy
>      ├── povtile-frame_data.inc
>      └── you_are_a_toy.pov

is the one I decided to try first.  no dice, parse error, see attached.

(also, it _is_ possible to format code in a readable manner ;-))


regards, jr.

[Peter Markley] POV-Ray Mosaic Memes [58 days 14 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Tue, 16 Jun 2026 23:30:13 GMT

Hello all,

This is definitely a case where "one thing led to another ..." lol

For some extra context, see this thread:
https://news.povray.org/povray.text.scene-files/thread/%3Cweb.6a26178b356cf98c595b1a7e7d5760c2%40news.povray.org%3E/

I have created a playlist of memes using a "POV-Ray mosaic" technique 
that I developed. Attached is a ZIP containing all the scenes (so far), 
and you can find renders of them here: 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgYqTYMQH9qCemP1CC1fWBQ5r4jmr1nM1

I'm not sure if I have any real right to feel as proud of this as I do. :-P

ZIP contents:

povtile_scenes
â”œâ”€â”€ diabeetus
â”‚Â Â 
â”œâ”€â”€ diabeetus.pov
â”‚Â Â 
â””â”€â”€ povtile-frame_data.inc
â”œâ”€â”€ heisenberg
â”‚Â Â 
â”œâ”€â”€ heisenberg.pov
â”‚Â Â 
â””â”€â”€ povtile-frame_data.inc
â”œâ”€â”€ hobbits_to_isengard
â”‚Â Â 
â”œâ”€â”€ hobbits_to_isengard.pov
â”‚Â Â 
â””â”€â”€ povtile-frame_data.inc
â”œâ”€â”€ myst
â”‚Â Â 
â”œâ”€â”€ myst.pov
â”‚Â Â 
â””â”€â”€ povtile-frame_data.inc
â”œâ”€â”€ untitled
â”‚Â Â 
â”œâ”€â”€ povtile-frame_data.inc
â”‚Â Â 
â””â”€â”€ untitled.pov
â”œâ”€â”€ wonka
â”‚Â Â 
â”œâ”€â”€ povtile-frame_data.inc
â”‚Â Â 
â””â”€â”€ wonka.pov
â””â”€â”€ you_are_a_toy
     â”œâ”€â”€ povtile-frame_data.inc
     â””â”€â”€ you_are_a_toy.pov


-- 
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient
1}}translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+
asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="
};#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Message preview butchered? [59 days 11 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Tue, 16 Jun 2026 02:40:00 GMT

"Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>
> I was browsing a very old forum thread of mine (posted under a lost account
> "Quartz") and noticed the problem happening to messages there also:
>
https://news.povray.org/povray.advanced-users/thread/%3Cweb.4e5f0af057ee503f2b8e18870%40news.povray.org%3E/?mtop=4245
94
> &moff=10

And to answer your copyright question from 2011, I would guess the laws of the
USA and Australia apply, which have exceptions for Fair Use and Fair Dealing,
respectively.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Message preview butchered? [59 days 11 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Tue, 16 Jun 2026 02:35:00 GMT

"Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>
> I was browsing a very old forum thread of mine (posted under a lost account
> "Quartz") and noticed the problem happening to messages there also:
>
https://news.povray.org/povray.advanced-users/thread/%3Cweb.4e5f0af057ee503f2b8e18870%40news.povray.org%3E/?mtop=4245
94
> &moff=10
>
> What's telling here is that:
> 1. I don't remember experiencing this problem back then, and
> 2. The conversation seems to acknowledge the missing portions of the messages,
> as if they were still visible at the time
>
> At least for that old thread, I feel like this points toward the problem being
> merely on output/display, i.e. that the messages still exist intact in the
> website's storage.

There was a site-wide crash in March of 2021, and the problem started after
that.  Lines with non-ASCII characters disappeared in the Web view of articles
posted prior to the crash, but they still show up in Thunderbird.

> I'm not sure if that logic applies equally to new messages posted today, but
> there it is

For articles posted after the crash, the behavior has changed.  I haven't
figured out exactly when non-ASCII lines disappear and when they are retained,
but it seems to be less of a problem with the newer messages.  But I've also
just been avoiding non-ASCII characters (which feels awkward when we're
discussing Bezier curves).

[jr] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t... [60 days 3 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Mon, 15 Jun 2026 10:35:00 GMT

hi,

=?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_=22Yadgar=22_Bleimann?= <yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:
> Hi(gh)!
> ... here is what I got ...

if your mate still doesn't buy a new laptop now, idk, will you (need to) break
arms ?!  </grin>

regards, jr.

[Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t... [60 days 21 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Sun, 14 Jun 2026 16:40:42 GMT

Hi(gh)!

Am 13.06.26 um 18:39 schrieb Bald Eagle:

> No.
> The original function that uses select () outputs either 0 or 1.
> You feed the result into a color_map, which allows you to use rgb colors.

Ah yes, I understood... here is what I got - thank you for your help!

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

[Bald Eagle] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t... [61 days 21 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Sat, 13 Jun 2026 16:40:00 GMT

> > You'll get solid dots with select.
>
> ...but then, again, no other colors than black and white?

No.
The original function that uses select () outputs either 0 or 1.
You feed the result into a color_map, which allows you to use rgb colors.

- BE

[Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t... [61 days 21 hours and 53 minutes ago]

Sat, 13 Jun 2026 16:32:01 GMT

Am 13.06.26 um 17:25 schrieb Bald Eagle:

> You'll get solid dots with select.

...but then, again, no other colors than black and white?

-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

[Bald Eagle] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t... [61 days 22 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Sat, 13 Jun 2026 15:30:00 GMT

> > In that case, you can even get rid of the select() statement.
Scratch that.   Keep the select () statement.

> I tried this, but now I get rings

You'll get solid dots with select.

- BE

[Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t... [62 days and 53 minutes ago]

Sat, 13 Jun 2026 13:31:32 GMT

Hi(gh)!

Am 13.06.26 um 13:57 schrieb Bald Eagle:

> Use a pigment_map. or a color_map.
> 
> In that case, you can even get rid of the select() statement.
> 
> The _maps do exactly that:  they map the output values of your function to
> colors, pigments, textures, normals, or materials.
> 
> color_map {
>    [ 0.0  rgb <0, 0, 0>]
>    [ 0.5  rgb <0, 0, 0>]
>    [ 0.5  rgb <1 ,1 ,1>]
>    [ 1.0  rgb <1 ,1 ,1>]
> }
> 
> Double entries at 0.5 give a hard transition.
> Now any value below 0.5 will be black, and any value above 0.5 will be white.

I tried this, but now I get rings rather than growing solid black dots, 
as you can see in the attachment (clock=20)!

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar




-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

[Bald Eagle] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t... [62 days 2 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Sat, 13 Jun 2026 12:00:00 GMT

> Are you sure? If I replace them with actual color vectors, I get the
> error message "Parse Error: Expected 'operand', color
>   keyword 'rgb' found instead"!

Absolutely.

You are trying to shove a keyword and a vector into a scalar-only function that
gets parsed by the function VM.


> How can I use real colors instead?

Use a pigment_map. or a color_map.

In that case, you can even get rid of the select() statement.

The _maps do exactly that:  they map the output values of your function to
colors, pigments, textures, normals, or materials.

color_map {
  [ 0.0  rgb <0, 0, 0>]
  [ 0.5  rgb <0, 0, 0>]
  [ 0.5  rgb <1 ,1 ,1>]
  [ 1.0  rgb <1 ,1 ,1>]
}

Double entries at 0.5 give a hard transition.
Now any value below 0.5 will be black, and any value above 0.5 will be white.

- BE

[Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t... [62 days 2 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Sat, 13 Jun 2026 11:40:02 GMT

Hi(gh)!

Am 13.06.26 um 03:03 schrieb Bald Eagle:
> 
>> Just for better understandig: what do the second and third parameters of
>> select() represent? Are they just compressed rgb vectors, i. e. black
>> and white?
> 
> Yes.  0 gets vector-promoted to rgb <0, 0, 0>, and 1 gets vector-promoted to rgb
> <1, 1, 1>
Are you sure? If I replace them with actual color vectors, I get the 
error message "Parse Error: Expected 'operand', color
  keyword 'rgb' found instead"! How can I use real colors instead?

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar


-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

[Bald Eagle] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t... [62 days 13 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Sat, 13 Jun 2026 01:05:00 GMT

> Just for better understandig: what do the second and third parameters of
> select() represent? Are they just compressed rgb vectors, i. e. black
> and white?

Yes.  0 gets vector-promoted to rgb <0, 0, 0>, and 1 gets vector-promoted to rgb
<1, 1, 1>.

[Droj] Re: Mysterious gadget [62 days 14 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Fri, 12 Jun 2026 23:55:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> MichaelJF <fri### [at] t-onlinede> wrote:
>
> > I googled the words on the note attached and came up with the hint to a
> > nautrigon:
> >
> >
https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/Description-Nautrigon-Directions-Use-Instrument-Solving/588224941/bd#&gid=1&
pi
> d=1
>
> Ooooh - you had more luck than I did, and that is a VERY good lead.
>
> Obviously there's a LOT more to this device than what I got.  Now I just need a
> good picture of it, and a fairly through description of how to use it.
> I did find "On an Instrument for Solving Spherical Triangles". but it would be
> more comprehensible with a diagram to accompany it.
>
> THANKS!  :)
>
> - BW

You might have a look at the link below

>>
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1878/december/brief-account-progress-art-navigation
<<

and search for 'OTHER DEVICES'. No manual how to use that thing but a hint for
what is was designed.

Droj

[Droj] Carotid-Fundalini - not a 'new disease' [62 days 15 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Fri, 12 Jun 2026 23:20:00 GMT

Hi,

I came across this thing on Clifford Pickover's homepage hosted by J. Sprott at

<<https://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/CAROTID.HTM>>
The website contains a whole lot of interesting stuff - great for rainy days!

The C-F function is not spectacular but the result...
Here is the POV SDL - not elegant but it does want I wanted to get (now):

/*
Carotid-Fundalini 2D found at
https://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/CAROTID.HTM;

y=cos(N * x * acos(x))

x = [-1...1]
stepsize = 0.01;
*/

#version 3.7;

global_settings { assumed_gamma 2.2 }


#include "colors.inc"
#include "textures.inc"
#include "metals.inc"
#include "math.inc"


#declare X = 0;
#declare N = 30;
#declare rad = 0.005;
#declare stepsize = 0.0005;
#declare step = 1;
#declare a = sqrt(5);
#declare b = 1.0;
#declare C_FColor = rgb <0.00, 0.00, 0.00>;

#macro C_F2D(a, b, X, N, rad, stepsize, step)
  union {
   #for(i,1,N,1)
      #local C_FColor = rgb CH2RGB(degrees(i));

      #local X = -1;
   #while(X<=+1)
           sphere {<a*X, cosd(b*i * X * acosd(X)), 0>, rad
                pigment{C_FColor} finish{phong 0.5 phong_size 1.5}
           }
      #local X = X + stepsize;
   #end // while X
#end // for N
}
#end

object { C_F2D(a, b, X, N, rad, stepsize, step)
       rotate 0*x
       }

camera {
   location <0,0,-5>
   up y
   right x*image_width/image_height
   angle 54
   sky <0,1,0>
   look_at <0,0,0>
}

light_source {
    <7, 15, -100>
    color rgb <1, 1, 1>
    //shadowless
}

Should you have some other ideas to improve the SDL let me know but have a look
at the image first and read Pickover's comment.

Droj

[Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t... [62 days 16 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Fri, 12 Jun 2026 22:00:18 GMT

Hi(gh)!

Am 12.06.26 um 21:29 schrieb Bald Eagle:

> plane {z, 0 pigment {function {select (Dots (x, y, z) - Radius, 0, 1)} } }

Just for better understandig: what do the second and third parameters of 
select() represent? Are they just compressed rgb vectors, i. e. black 
and white?

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

[Leroy] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t... [62 days 17 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Fri, 12 Jun 2026 20:30:00 GMT

=?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_=22Yadgar=22_Bleimann?= <yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:
> Hi(gh)!
>
> As a background for an animated text imploring a dear friend to buy a
> new laptop, I want to have a white mesh2 screen with slowly growing
> black polka dots, which finally overlap until no white is visible
> anymore - but instead they just stop growing as they touch each other!
>
> Is there a way to keep them growing anyway? Or do I have to use a
> different pigment pattern?
>
> Here is the code:
>
> // begin code:
>
> /* #declare loop=div(clock,200);
> #switch(loop)
>    #case(0) */
>      #declare OuterColor=<1, 1, 1>;
>      #declare InnerColor=<0, 0, 0>;
>      #declare TranslateVector=<-0.005, -0.0035, 0>;
> /*  #break
> #end */
>
>
> mesh2
> {
>    vertex_vectors
>    {
>      4
>      <-1, 0.5, 1>, <3, 0.5, 1>, <-1, -0.5, -1>, <3, -0.5, 1>
>    }
>    face_indices
>    {
>      2
>      <0, 1, 2>, <1, 2, 3>
>    }
>    texture
>    {
>      pigment
>      {
>        cylindrical
>        rotate <90, 0, 0>
>        translate <1, 1, 0>
>        warp { repeat x*2 }
>        warp { repeat y*2 }
>        color_map
>        {
>          [0 color rgb OuterColor]
>          [1-clock/105 color rgb OuterColor]
>          [1-clock/105 color rgb InnerColor]
>          [1 color rgb InnerColor]
>        }
>      }
>      finish { ambient 1 diffuse 0 }
>      scale 0.05
>      translate clock*TranslateVector
>    }
> }
>
> camera
> {
>    orthographic
>    location <1, 0.15, -5>
>    look_at <1, 0.15, 0>
>    right <1000, 0, 0>
>    up <0, 100, 0>
>    angle 40
> }
>
> See you in Khyberspace!
>
> Yadgar
>
> Now playing: Apo 22 (Vangelis)
> --
> VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

When I first started to answer this. I thought 'scale the the pigment with the
clock'. Then I open the reply page and really looked at your code. I needed to
play with it to see what it's doing. And after many minutes this is what I came
up with

#declare A=1-clock;
plane{z,0 pigment{spherical color_map{[A,rgb 1] [A,rgb 0]}
        scale 1+clock*10
        translate <1, 1, 0>
        warp { repeat x*2 }
        warp { repeat y*2 }
     } finish{ambient 1}scale .05}

I guess you could just insert the 'scale 1+clock*10' into you code. But where
the fun in that?!:)

Have Fun!

[Bald Eagle] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t... [62 days 18 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Fri, 12 Jun 2026 19:30:00 GMT

So, try this:

If you take your clock value and multiply it by sqrt(2), then the black will
reach all the way into the corner of each square, and will give you a fully
black texture.

- BE




#version 3.7;
global_settings{ assumed_gamma 1.0 }
#default {finish {ambient 0 diffuse 1} }


camera {
 //orthographic
 location <0,0,-50>     // position & direction of view
 look_at  <0,0,0>
 right    x*image_width/image_height
}

sky_sphere {pigment {rgb 1}}
light_source {<0, 0, -100> rgb 1}

#declare Dots = function {sqrt ( (mod(abs(x),2)-1) * (mod(abs(x),2)-1) +
(mod(abs(y),2)-1) *
(mod(abs(y),2)-1) )}


#declare Radius = sqrt(2);

plane {z, 0 pigment {function {select (Dots (x, y, z) - Radius, 0, 1)} } }

[Bald Eagle] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t... [62 days 19 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Fri, 12 Jun 2026 19:15:00 GMT

> I want to have a white mesh2 screen with slowly growing
> black polka dots, which finally overlap until no white is visible
> anymore - but instead they just stop growing as they touch each other!
>
> Is there a way to keep them growing anyway? Or do I have to use a
> different pigment pattern?

You need to use a different pigment pattern.
"The cylindrical pattern creates a one unit radius cylinder along the Y axis.
..... It starts at 1.0 at the origin and decreases to a minimum value of 0.0 as
it approaches a distance of 1 unit from the Y axis. It remains at 0.0 for all
areas beyond that distance."

https://wiki.povray.org/content/Reference:Cylindrical_Pattern

You probably want to use something like a
pigment { function {}} block, where you use sqrt(x*x+y*y) < Radius.
And then use your clock to change the radius
(that would give you a single growing disk)

To get around that, use sqrt (mod(x,1)*mod(x,1)+mod(y,1)*mod(y,1)) which will
make every disk repeat every unit.

But then you have to center them, using Mike Williams' repeat unit fix.
"Using mod(x,2) will cause the shape to be repeated in the x direction every 2
units. If your original isosurface
created a shape centred at the origin, then there's a problem with the way that
it chooses which bits to repeat.
The left half of the object gets repeated in one direction and the right half of
the object gets repeated in the other
direction. To fix this, we'd like to substitute mod(x,2)+1 where x is negative
and mod(x,2)-1 where x is positive. To
fix both directions at once, for a symmetrical object, we can use abs(x) like
this mod(abs(x),2)-1.
Page 17 of 149
To change the length of the repeat unit we can do this mod(abs(x),Step)-Step/2."

Which should give you:
sqrt ( (mod(abs(x),2)-1) * (mod(abs(x),2)-1) + (mod(abs(y),2)-1) *
(mod(abs(y),2)-1) )

If you just use the function value, you'll probably get a gradient.
You can use the above function to calculate a value by subtracting it from your
radius.  Use that as the first argument in a select() statement, and return 1 or
0 to get a hard white to black transition.

Hope that's understandable and helps.

- BE

[Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann] Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get the c... [62 days 22 hours and 52 minutes ago]

Fri, 12 Jun 2026 15:32:30 GMT

Hi(gh)!

As a background for an animated text imploring a dear friend to buy a 
new laptop, I want to have a white mesh2 screen with slowly growing 
black polka dots, which finally overlap until no white is visible 
anymore - but instead they just stop growing as they touch each other!

Is there a way to keep them growing anyway? Or do I have to use a 
different pigment pattern?

Here is the code:

// begin code:

/* #declare loop=div(clock,200);
#switch(loop)
   #case(0) */
     #declare OuterColor=<1, 1, 1>;
     #declare InnerColor=<0, 0, 0>;
     #declare TranslateVector=<-0.005, -0.0035, 0>;
/*  #break
#end */


mesh2
{
   vertex_vectors
   {
     4
     <-1, 0.5, 1>, <3, 0.5, 1>, <-1, -0.5, -1>, <3, -0.5, 1>
   }
   face_indices
   {
     2
     <0, 1, 2>, <1, 2, 3>
   }
   texture
   {
     pigment
     {
       cylindrical
       rotate <90, 0, 0>
       translate <1, 1, 0>
       warp { repeat x*2 }
       warp { repeat y*2 }
       color_map
       {
         [0 color rgb OuterColor]
         [1-clock/105 color rgb OuterColor]
         [1-clock/105 color rgb InnerColor]
         [1 color rgb InnerColor]
       }
     }
     finish { ambient 1 diffuse 0 }
     scale 0.05
     translate clock*TranslateVector
   }
}

camera
{
   orthographic
   location <1, 0.15, -5>
   look_at <1, 0.15, 0>
   right <1000, 0, 0>
   up <0, 100, 0>
   angle 40
}

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

Now playing: Infinitude (Richard Vimal)
-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

[Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann] Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get the c... [62 days 23 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Fri, 12 Jun 2026 15:10:33 GMT

Hi(gh)!

As a background for an animated text imploring a dear friend to buy a 
new laptop, I want to have a white mesh2 screen with slowly growing 
black polka dots, which finally overlap until no white is visible 
anymore - but instead they just stop growing as they touch each other!

Is there a way to keep them growing anyway? Or do I have to use a 
different pigment pattern?

Here is the code:

// begin code:

/* #declare loop=div(clock,200);
#switch(loop)
   #case(0) */
     #declare OuterColor=<1, 1, 1>;
     #declare InnerColor=<0, 0, 0>;
     #declare TranslateVector=<-0.005, -0.0035, 0>;
/*  #break
#end */


mesh2
{
   vertex_vectors
   {
     4
     <-1, 0.5, 1>, <3, 0.5, 1>, <-1, -0.5, -1>, <3, -0.5, 1>
   }
   face_indices
   {
     2
     <0, 1, 2>, <1, 2, 3>
   }
   texture
   {
     pigment
     {
       cylindrical
       rotate <90, 0, 0>
       translate <1, 1, 0>
       warp { repeat x*2 }
       warp { repeat y*2 }
       color_map
       {
         [0 color rgb OuterColor]
         [1-clock/105 color rgb OuterColor]
         [1-clock/105 color rgb InnerColor]
         [1 color rgb InnerColor]
       }
     }
     finish { ambient 1 diffuse 0 }
     scale 0.05
     translate clock*TranslateVector
   }
}

camera
{
   orthographic
   location <1, 0.15, -5>
   look_at <1, 0.15, 0>
   right <1000, 0, 0>
   up <0, 100, 0>
   angle 40
}

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

Now playing: Apo 22 (Vangelis)
-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

[MichaelJF] Re: Mysterious gadget [63 days 10 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Fri, 12 Jun 2026 04:10:55 GMT

Am 11.06.26 um 23:40 schrieb Bald Eagle:
> MichaelJF <fri### [at] t-onlinede> wrote:
> 
>> I googled the words on the note attached and came up with the hint to a
>> nautrigon:
>>
>>
https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/Description-Nautrigon-Directions-Use-Instrument-Solving/588224941/bd#&gid=1&pi
> d=1
> 
> Ooooh - you had more luck than I did, and that is a VERY good lead.
> 
> Obviously there's a LOT more to this device than what I got.  Now I just need a
> good picture of it, and a fairly through description of how to use it.
> I did find "On an Instrument for Solving Spherical Triangles". but it would be
> more comprehensible with a diagram to accompany it.
> 
> THANKS!  :)
> 
> - BW
> 
> 
> 
After taking another closer look at the image from the link above this 
morning, I no longer believe that your device is part of a Nautrigon, 
because the Nautrigon shown in the image does not appear to have any 
circular segments covering more than 180 degrees. That was an 
interesting lead, but unfortunately, it was probably the wrong track.

However, I havenâ€™t found any other sources on the Nautrigon, and the 
original publication is a bit too expensive for me just to satisfy my 
curiosity.

Best regards
Michael

[Bald Eagle] Re: Mysterious gadget [63 days 16 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Thu, 11 Jun 2026 21:45:00 GMT

MichaelJF <fri### [at] t-onlinede> wrote:

> I googled the words on the note attached and came up with the hint to a
> nautrigon:
>
>
https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/Description-Nautrigon-Directions-Use-Instrument-Solving/588224941/bd#&gid=1&pi
d=1

Ooooh - you had more luck than I did, and that is a VERY good lead.

Obviously there's a LOT more to this device than what I got.  Now I just need a
good picture of it, and a fairly through description of how to use it.
I did find "On an Instrument for Solving Spherical Triangles". but it would be
more comprehensible with a diagram to accompany it.

THANKS!  :)

- BW

[MichaelJF] Re: Mysterious gadget [63 days 19 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Thu, 11 Jun 2026 19:14:17 GMT

Am 11.06.26 um 12:51 schrieb Bald Eagle:
> I acquired this interesting device as part of a lot of tools (in every sense of
> the words) and have yet to determine how it is used.
> 
> It is labeled "mechanical solution of spherical triangles"
> 
> And search as I might, I have found nothing on the interwebs that shows a
> similar device or explains how it might be used.
> 
> The attachments are simply clamped onto the edge, like a caliper.
> I have no idea if there were any more parts intended to go along with it.
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas?
I googled the words on the note attached and came up with the hint to a 
nautrigon:

https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/Description-Nautrigon-Directions-Use-Instrument-Solving/588224941/bd#&gid=1&pid=1

Best regards
Michael

[ingo] Re: NVIDIA vulkan and POV-Ray [63 days 22 hours and 48 minutes ago]

Thu, 11 Jun 2026 15:37:08 GMT

Do you mean as in ray marching, sphere tracing using the SDF of the 
shape? Or classic ray tracing?

I made a little ray-tracer that does the classic way as well as the 
sphere marching on cpu using the same scene file but different back end. 
There are noticeable differences in quality. (diff and compare done with 
imagemagick)

I've yet to use the GPU/vulkan as a back end for both. The goal is to 
have different back-ends as a "plug in".

Like your rewrite project.

ingo

On 2026-06-09 19:32, OscarChavarro wrote:
> The scene primitives themselves do not necessarily need to be
> converted into polygons; their ray-intersection routines can be implemented
> directly on the GPU and executed by the shader/CUDA cores. Vulkan API 1.4
> extensions are capable of supporting this kind of architecture.

[Cossack ] Texture Viewer: Work in Progress [64 days 2 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Thu, 11 Jun 2026 12:10:00 GMT

I'm creating a macro for viewing and testing textures. I'm still a beginner, so
please excuse the messy code.

#include "colors.inc"
 #include "textures.inc"
  #include "shapes3.inc"
#include "shapes.inc"
 #include "logo.inc"

camera {
         location <1,1.5,-3>
          look_at <0,1,0>
   }
light_source {
        <1000,1000,-1000> color rgb 1
 }
light_source {
        <2,3,-10> color rgb 1
}

////////////// logo pigment ////////////
#declare Tex_Sphere_Background = texture {
    Polished_Chrome
     normal { bumps 0.1 scale 0.001 }
}

#declare Tex_Sphere_Logo = texture {
   Polished_Chrome
    pigment {Red}
     normal { dents 0.5 scale 0.02 }
   finish { reflection 0.7 metallic }
 }

 #declare Metal_Logo_Texture = texture {
     object {
      Povray_Logo_Prism
       scale <0.5, 0.5, 10> * 0.5
        translate <0,0, -1>
      texture { Tex_Sphere_Background }
       texture { Tex_Sphere_Logo }
     }
   }
    //////////////////////////////////////

      plane {
               y,0
                pigment {
                         checker
                color rgb 1
                Gray
         }
  }

    #declare F =

      difference {
               sphere {
                        <0,0,0>,1
                pigment{Red}
                translate <0,0,0>
         }
        sphere {
                 <0,0,0>0.8
                  pigment {Blue}
                   normal {bumps 0.5 scale 0.001}
                scale <1,1,0.5> * 0.7
                 translate <0,0,-1>
          }

 }
  #declare Fq =
   union{
            object {F}
        sphere {<0,0,0> 0.925
         //texture {Polished_Chrome  normal {bumps 0.1 scale 0.001}}}
          texture {Metal_Logo_Texture
                     }

     }

       };

 object{ Round_Pyramid_N_out(
             8 , // number of side faces
              <0,0.325,0>, 0.40,// A, R_out_A,
                   <0,-0.1,0>, 0.70,// B, R_out_B,
            0.1, // border radius
           1, // 1 = filled, 0 = wire
            1  // 0 = union, 1 = merge
          ) //-------------------------------------
        texture{ pigment{ rgb<1,1,1> }
                  finish { phong 1 }
                 } // end of texture --------------
         } // end of object //----------------------

           object{ Round_N_Tube_Polygon( 8, // N,
                                  0.1, // Tube_R,
                                  0.85, // Base_Width,
                           0.25, // Edge_R
                               1, // Filled,
                                1, // Merge_On
                               ) //------------
        texture{ pigment{ color rgbf<1,1,0,0>}
                 finish { phong 1
                           }
                } // end of texture
          scale 0.89
        rotate <90,0,0>
        translate<0,0,0>
       } // end of object ----------------------

   object {
        Fq
        rotate <25,-45,0>
         translate <0,1,0>
}

[Bald Eagle] Mysterious gadget [64 days 3 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Thu, 11 Jun 2026 10:55:00 GMT

I acquired this interesting device as part of a lot of tools (in every sense of
the words) and have yet to determine how it is used.

It is labeled "mechanical solution of spherical triangles"

And search as I might, I have found nothing on the interwebs that shows a
similar device or explains how it might be used.

The attachments are simply clamped onto the edge, like a caliper.
I have no idea if there were any more parts intended to go along with it.

Does anyone have any ideas?

[Peter Markley] Re: POV-Ray Code As Signature [64 days 15 hours and 42 minutes ago]

Wed, 10 Jun 2026 22:42:18 GMT

On 6/9/26 8:58 PM, Bald Eagle wrote:
> You're a total psychopath.
> And you completely belong here. :D
To that, all I can say is:


/* Render at 500x500 */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 2.2}
#local tx=texture{bozo texture_map{[.4 pigment{granite pigment_map
{[0 rgb 0][.3 rgb <.43,.14,.1>][.6 rgb <.77,.6,.58>][.7 rgb 1]}
scale 4}finish {ambient 1}][0.55 pigment{granite pigment_map {[0.1
rgb 0][.5 rgb<.28,.06,.4>][.51 rgb<.23,.08,0>][.8 rgb<.54,.29,.25>]}
scale 7}finish{ambient 1}]}};#macro B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{bozo
texture_map{[.3 tx scale .04][.4 tx scale .2][.5 tx scale .2][.6 tx
scale 5][.7 tx scale 5][.8 tx scale 10]}scale 10 translate<-c,0,-d>}
translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+asc(substr
(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,10>direction-y right
x*20 up z*20}#local s=array[80]{
"7;597;59547;537:6749","6749665:406>4222546:","46263;41555?53255<49",
"7:6:5379251<557:013?","7;597;591;3<537:6749","67492=255369426>4620",
"64506:447;687:567;56","62456?69706930427<12","7;597;59547;53796749",
"281<49692:5;6:447568","6;446:43694203496442","7:5366427<546=6;3241",
"547:7;591;3<6>6;5=0?","2452766974686943032>","7;5;5222547<6653696;",
"091?091?664262451232","7;597;591;3<307>664:","386055766:434:3<211<",
"1=1:2=1148353009102<","350:5962717?084:635;","7;59547;7<5953796849",
"7>686:43775:416=2832","2>0?383:3212700;6<01","632<7;6:547<62596458",
"7;597;591;3<6>6<655:","766=6;47625:23115:22","3<3:383;756:2;0>7;0>",
"632<55796>6:6:446644","7;59537:547;6>6<655:","446=655;4>3>77081818",
"3;254;33536<4=664=66","4<67327>747<707<7858","7:59537:33411<3;1?1:",
"22182;2527524?65766=","2=063=224<525749132<","786;327>675062447858",
"1;3<24332=222:242>15","2:1439476949644;642=","69063=22151946663009",
"30047<597=5:4?62537<","1232706;22162<144?4?","55370=2<12336;09112;",
"290?546=614?0>363?25","6=006;457858094:053<","6=4>75414?4?08471>70",
"66534670285558113?25","30015050655752782608","5=4;5:4:557;084=084:",
"095:7473035253165379","664:4;336751263;2?6:","632<62077<5;63454?1<",
"141=7=694?5<084<5278","74747474085258785379","5=0?2>2;691;7959622<",
"330<535=2?6;1;123>16","28547<577166696;0<21","047?0319013:5279654:",
"4969665:6=687<580?35","64473004280<612>3=22","6;444?62094>2>2;0?34",
"031<023<0;016=6<654:","4969645854795578033>","0?3527116913770>5?1=",
"634324341=3=2=2<6?65","041=05242?0:6=6<5379","5379684:5478557:4129",
"4=0?4<23684469447<57","2?7?1<3<5379137>7=41","5843163=1;3<79585378",
"54792>0=2>011=513061","723=7<401>2>2:48664<","067>53792?1>15281;3<",
"041=01161;3<79581>51","6875422;7:281=4;2749","36146569645925171?4:",
"1;3=6227537:7<592?01","023:01167?0>7?0>7970","697175740<4?11323<3>",
"635;547;11727169317=","5377537:7;593<3>1112"};
#for(b,0,19)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(19-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[jr] Re: how to make a blurry reflection? [65 days 6 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Wed, 10 Jun 2026 08:00:00 GMT

hi,

"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I ran some comparison tests of two of the blur methods ...
> I was surprised to see ...
> Both methods produce a nice blur; the only real difference is render time ...

thank you for the "investigation", summarising, and the scene code.  neat.  I'd
like to see this knowledge, the information, go into the corresponding HowTo[*]
article, to extend and improve that.  would you be willing (have the time ?) to
provide "content" ?

[*] <wiki.povray.org/content/HowTo:Manual_focal_blur>

regards, jr.

[Bald Eagle] Re: POV-Ray Code As Signature [65 days 13 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Wed, 10 Jun 2026 01:00:00 GMT

Peter Markley <nomail@nomail> wrote:

> BE, spoiler warning if you still want to reverse-engineer it...! :-)

Ha ha!
That would be like reversing pov-ray's turbulence algorithm.

You're a total psychopath.
And you completely belong here. :D

I greatly look forward to seeing more of the graphic expression of your mental
illness, and hope to be inspired and learn a great deal from your participation
in our little esoteric corner of the internet.

- BE

[Peter Markley] Re: POV-Ray Code As Signature [65 days 13 hours and 57 minutes ago]

Wed, 10 Jun 2026 00:27:49 GMT

On 6/9/26 7:38 PM, Leroy wrote:
> I accidently render it at 600 by 100 and it looked better!
> It's real funky how did you come with IT?
BE, spoiler warning if you still want to reverse-engineer it...! :-)

I took the literal signature I already use in my pre-existing brand 
imagery (visible at https://petermarkley.com and on various social 
profiles), and decided to recreate it as a mosaic using tiles of 
POV-Ray's granite texture.

I rendered a huge image of the granite texture and "vibe-coded" an 
OpenCV Python script that matched pieces of it to pieces of the 
reference image by visual similarity. This Python script gave me a list 
of these texture-space coordinates, ordered by source tile.

 From there it was a matter of encoding the coordinates in a way that 
was both compact and easily readable in POV-Ray. That's why in the code 
there's 8 lines of dense random ASCII strings. Then for each tile, the 
POV-Ray scene finds and decodes its texture-space coordinates, and 
translates the granite texture to that point.

The result reminds me of a Magna-Doodle when you look at them up close, 
because of the grainy pigment splotches separated into cells.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Doodle

-- 
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient
1}}translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+
asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="
};#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[Kenneth] Re: how to make a blurry reflection? [65 days 14 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Tue, 9 Jun 2026 23:50:00 GMT

"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> As an added bonus, the averaged-normals method does not 'blur' phong/specular
> highlights.
>

Sorry, I was mistaken; some further tests show that those highlights *do* appear
to be blurred. It's somewhat difficult to see, depending on the amount of
blurring used and the size of the highlight.

[Leroy] Re: POV-Ray Code As Signature [65 days 14 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Tue, 9 Jun 2026 23:40:00 GMT

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > I mentioned this here already:
> > >
https://news.povray.org/povray.off-topic/thread/%3Cweb.681a65007e5af26422e4b3f730225ff5%40news.povray.org%3E/?mto
p=
> 44
> > 7843&moff=10
> >
> > But I thought I'd share it properly as its own thread. I saw Francois Labreque's
> > "short code" style signature and was inspired to make my own.
> >
> > Mine's a lot more clumsy and is too long for the signature feature on the
> > povray.org web interface. But I like it :-)
> >
>
> Great! Now, I HAVE to render it and find out what's what:}
>
> Have Fun!

I accidently render it at 600 by 100 and it looked better!
It's real funky how did you come with IT?

Have fun!

[OscarChavarro] Re: NVIDIA vulkan and POV-Ray [65 days 20 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Tue, 9 Jun 2026 17:35:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
>
> > > I keep on watching the speed at which real time GPU ray tracing / light
> > > transport technology advances.
> > > It seems quite amazing.
>
> > GPU render assume that everything will use the same code : The code for
> > a mesh of polygons. That assumption comes from the obligation to use the
> > same code for all cores.
> > POV Ray use many primitives. All of the primitives need to use their own
> > code. So, a GPU version of POV Ray could only deal with one primitive
> > type at a time. Render all the spheres, then, render all the boxes, then
> > the torus, then the cones and cylinders, then...
>
> Well that, or code a fork that converts all the primitives into polygon meshes
> before rendering.  Or just add in mesh alternatives for all of the primitives in
> case someone wants to use them...  It probably can't be that hard to copy most
> of the primitives into macro-driven mesh alternatives, especially since most of
> them could just be rendered as parametric surfaces that are made with triangle{}
> or mesh{} or mesh2{} objects, not the parametric{}.   Then you could just use
> the same macro code and pass in the relevant equations for x, y, and z as
> arguments.

If you had asked me this back in 2022, my answer would have been: "Yes, it is
technically possible, but it would be extremely expensive. It would require a
significant amount of engineering effort, and experienced graphics programmers
are not cheap."

It is important to note that modern GPUs can use RT Cores to accelerate Bounding
Volume Hierarchies (BVHs), including structures based on Axis-Aligned Bounding
Boxes (AABBs). The scene primitives themselves do not necessarily need to be
converted into polygons; their ray-intersection routines can be implemented
directly on the GPU and executed by the shader/CUDA cores. Vulkan API 1.4
extensions are capable of supporting this kind of architecture.

Today, in 2026, the situation is different. AI-assisted and agentic programming
can dramatically reduce development costs and accelerate implementation. What
previously required a large team of highly specialized engineers may now be
achievable by a small group of volunteers or enthusiasts.

I plan to experiment with these ideas in my spare time using POV-Ray 1, since
its codebase is much smaller and easier to understand:

https://github.com/OscarChavarro/povCpp

That said, if I continue working on it alone, it will likely still take several
months to produce meaningful results. Let's see what I can do for a proof of
concept.

[Kenneth] Re: how to make a blurry reflection? [65 days 20 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Tue, 9 Jun 2026 17:30:00 GMT

I ran some comparison tests of two of the blur methods-- averaging full TEXTURES
vs. simpler averaged NORMALS in a single texture. I had never achieved decent
results with the latter method, until I realized that strong antialiasing was
*required* to eliminate its 'noisy' appearance. For both methods, I used a very
small-scaled 'bumps' pattern; 'granite' looks a bit better but is slower to
render.

(For the averaged-textures method, I also used max_trace_level 4 in
global_settings; the default is 5, but higher values really slow down the render
when there are other reflective objects in a scene.)

I was surprised to see that the averaged-normals method looks OK when using only
one normal (or two or three averaged copies at most.) A normal can be thought of
as a grayscale pattern (either 0.0 to 1.0 or -0.5 to +0.5 ?)-- and averaging a
lot of offset copies really just 'smooths them out' to a flat median value.
.....which looks almost like no normal effect at all. The averaged-TEXTURES
method-- even though it uses multiple averaged normals as well-- is a different
situation, because it creates averaged *reflections* too.

Both methods produce a nice blur; the only real difference is render time-- and
the averaged-textures method does not necessarily need antialiasing, depending
on the number of textures used. But if you are going to use AA anyway, the
averaged-normals method is faster. (For its AA, I used the default Method 1,
with Antialias_Threshold 0.1 and Antialias_Depth 8. The current 3.8 betas have a
new AA Method 3, which looks better and is faster.)  As an added bonus, the
averaged-normals method does not 'blur' phong/specular highlights.

For the averaged-textures method, Alain's suggestion of using TWO overlapping
objects for the blurred sphere (the primary one with with no_reflection, the 2nd
one with no blur  and no_image) is an excellent one-- it vastly speeds up the
render (when there are other reflective objects in the scene), even though the
blurred object shows up on the other objects as non-blurred. That is not very
noticeable IMO, unless you are specifically looking for it.  The averaged
NORMALS method does not really need this trick (or the restricted
max_trace_level value) since it uses only *one* reflective texture, regardless
of its multiple normals.

--------------------------
I used the following values for both test methods:
#declare Norm_Scale = .0001;
#declare Blur_Softness = .35; // how 'smeared out' the blurring is
#declare Multiplier = 60; // 60 for A), 3 or even 1 for B)
#declare S = seed(13);

#declare TEX_1 =
texture{
     pigment {rgb .8}
     finish {ambient 0 emission 0 diffuse .2  reflection .7
             phong 1 phong_size 14}
       }


A)  Averaged TEXTURES example:
#declare C = 1;
sphere{0,1
   texture{
      average
      texture_map{
      #while(C <= Multiplier)
          [1
          TEX_1
          normal{
              bumps
              scale Norm_Scale
              bump_size Blur_Softness
              translate <rand(S),rand(S),rand(S)>*10
                }
          ]
     #declare C = C+1;
     #end
                }
          }
       }


B) Averaged NORMALS example:
#declare C = 1;
sphere{0,1
texture{TEX_1}
    normal{
       average
       normal_map{
       #while(C <= Multiplier)
          [1
          bumps
          bump_size Blur_Softness
          scale Norm_Scale
          translate <rand(S),rand(S),rand(S)>*10
          ]
       #declare C = C+1;
       #end
                 }
          }
   }

[Peter Markley] Re: POV-Ray Code As Signature [65 days 21 hours and 47 minutes ago]

Tue, 9 Jun 2026 16:37:30 GMT

On 6/9/26 7:44 AM, Bald Eagle wrote:
> "Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>> I saw Francois Labreque's
>> "short code" style signature and was inspired to make my own.
> 
> Damn.   This is second only to Warp's ridiculously obfuscated signature.
> 
> Well done.
> 
> I haven't had the time to sit, focus, and reverse-engineer it, but this is very
> cool!
> 
> - BE
> 

Aw, thanks! You're very kind :-)

-- 
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient
1}}translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+
asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="
};#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[Bald Eagle] Re: POV-Ray Code As Signature [66 days 2 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Tue, 9 Jun 2026 11:45:00 GMT

"Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> I saw Francois Labreque's
> "short code" style signature and was inspired to make my own.

Damn.   This is second only to Warp's ridiculously obfuscated signature.

Well done.

I haven't had the time to sit, focus, and reverse-engineer it, but this is very
cool!

- BE

[Leroy] Re: POV-Ray Code As Signature [66 days 19 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Mon, 8 Jun 2026 18:45:00 GMT

"Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> I mentioned this here already:
> >
https://news.povray.org/povray.off-topic/thread/%3Cweb.681a65007e5af26422e4b3f730225ff5%40news.povray.org%3E/?mtop=
44
> 7843&moff=10
>
> But I thought I'd share it properly as its own thread. I saw Francois Labreque's
> "short code" style signature and was inspired to make my own.
>
> Mine's a lot more clumsy and is too long for the signature feature on the
> povray.org web interface. But I like it :-)
>

Great! Now, I HAVE to render it and find out what's what:}

Have Fun!

[Peter Markley] POV-Ray Code As Signature [67 days 13 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Mon, 8 Jun 2026 01:20:00 GMT

I mentioned this here already:
>
https://news.povray.org/povray.off-topic/thread/%3Cweb.681a65007e5af26422e4b3f730225ff5%40news.povray.org%3E/?mtop=44
7843&moff=10

But I thought I'd share it properly as its own thread. I saw Francois Labreque's
"short code" style signature and was inspired to make my own.

Mine's a lot more clumsy and is too long for the signature feature on the
povray.org web interface. But I like it :-)

--
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient
1}}translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+
asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="
};#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[Peter Markley] Re: Where are all the Povrayers? [67 days 16 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Sun, 7 Jun 2026 21:54:15 GMT

On 5/15/25 8:17 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
> -- 
> /*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
> /*    flabreque    */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
> /*        @        */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
> /*   gmail.com     */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }

Francois's signature inspired me :-P Mine's not as subtle or elegant, 
but I like it

-- 
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient 1}}
translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+asc(
substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="};
#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr(
s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[Peter Markley] Re: Message preview butchered? [68 days 13 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Sun, 7 Jun 2026 00:39:18 GMT

On 6/6/26 6:32 PM, Bald Eagle wrote:
> We're all here to help.
> 
> Welcome back to the POV-Ray community!
> 
> Looking forward to your YT video, and many fun projects and renders.
> 
> - BE
Thank you! :-D

--
https://petermarkley.com

[Bald Eagle] Re: Message preview butchered? [68 days 15 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 22:35:00 GMT

We're all here to help.

Welcome back to the POV-Ray community!

Looking forward to your YT video, and many fun projects and renders.

- BE

[Peter Markley] Re: Message preview butchered? [68 days 17 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 21:21:04 GMT

On 6/6/26 5:12 PM, Peter Markley wrote:
> =======
>  Â  ðŸ™ƒ
> =======
> 
> I believe this will succeed to post in the Newsgroup intact, so that 
> Thunderbird sees the emoji but the web interface does not.
Okay ... well ... It shows up correctly in the web interface

That either suggests there's some difference between how the 2011 
message is stored or displayed vs. this new one, or else I'm just way 
off track in general.

As a last test, let me try a few other char types in case it's the 
choice of emoji ...

Typographical apostrophe:
=====
Itâ€™s
=====

Typographical quotes:
=====
â€œItsâ€
=====

Copyright symbol:
=====
   Â©
=====

-- 
https://petermarkley.com

[Peter Markley] Re: Message preview butchered? [68 days 17 hours and 12 minutes ago]

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 21:12:23 GMT

On 6/6/26 10:18 AM, Peter Markley wrote:
> "Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
>> Someone using Thunderbird or Chris Cason would have to investigate and determine
>> what the exact problem is.
> 
> I was browsing a very old forum thread of mine (posted under a lost account
> "Quartz") and noticed the problem happening to messages there also:
>
https://news.povray.org/povray.advanced-users/thread/%3Cweb.4e5f0af057ee503f2b8e18870%40news.povray.org%3E/?mtop=424594
> &moff=10

I just loaded things in Thunderbird.

   1. My 2nd message on this thread is still missing the line that says 
"what does or doesn't trigger it" (presumably thanks to the 
typographical apostrophe in "doesn't")

   2. My old messages from 2011 mentioned above are INTACT when viewed 
with Thunderbird. See attached screenshot comparing Thunderbird vs. web view

I believe this is because the problem is currently affecting both input 
and output on the web interface. (This is evident because when you press 
"preview message" any lines with UTF-8 chars are erased even before 
anything is posted/stored, then if you press "edit message" to re-open 
the edit dialog the lines are still gone--in the exact field where you 
typed them moments before.)

If my hypothesis is true, this means UTF-8 input is still possible when 
posting a message via Thunderbird.

As a test, here's a line with an upside-down face emoji (U+1F643), 
enclosed between two chains of equals signs:

=======
   ðŸ™ƒ
=======

I believe this will succeed to post in the Newsgroup intact, so that 
Thunderbird sees the emoji but the web interface does not.

--
https://petermarkley.com

[Peter Markley] Re: Popularization of the POV-Ray program on Tik... [68 days 22 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 16:10:00 GMT

"Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> * generally, using the below tags could federate and ease the virality:
>
> #POVRay
> #RetroCGI
> #3DRender
> #OldSchoolCGI
> #FractalArt
> #GenerativeArt
>
> * Join Broader Communities: Post your work in the
> #3DArtists
> #DigitalArt
>
> * Is there any challenge worth contributing to? These might be a fit:
>
> #RetroCGIChallenge
> #LowPolyArt
> #FractalFriday
>
> * When using Nostalgia & "Retro-Future" Aesthetic:
> #Y2K
> #AnalogHorror"
> #RetroCGI

I happened to notice this artist on Instagram using POV-Ray with the hashtag
'#vaporwaveart': https://www.instagram.com/rgbsphere

Here's some more info I found on the term "vaporwave":
https://cari.institute/aesthetics/vaporwave

--
https://petermarkley.com

[Peter Markley] Re: Where are all the Povrayers? [68 days 22 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 15:30:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> There's a Discord server that a guy set up.
> https://discord.com/channels/1314335502870118423/1319503858078318592

That link doesn't work for me ... :,-(

I would love to find this POV-Ray Discord server since I use Discord regularly

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Light bleed include file [68 days 23 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 15:10:45 GMT

On 2026-05-10 10:18 (-4), jr wrote:
> 
> fwiw, I (really :-)) like the design of the 'LtBl__Image_map()' macro, food for
> thought..

I got the idea from Chris Bartlett.  He uses this trick in several of
his Object Collection contributions.

[Peter Markley] Re: Where are all the Povrayers? [68 days 23 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 15:10:00 GMT

My dad taught me POV-Ray when I was 7 years old, in 2000. Started using it
heavily between 2003-2007. I still use it occasionally but I confess the
"B-thing" has largely replaced it for me in practice. The last significant
POV-Ray work I did was probably around 2015

(I tried Blender back in 2005 or 2006 and it SUCKED. I retreated to POV-Ray as
my refuge! How the tables have turned now ...)

I followed Martin and Ricky on Bluesky. Here's mine:
https://bsky.app/profile/petermarkley.com

My other socials can be found on my portfolio site:
https://petermarkley.com/contact/

[Peter Markley] Re: Message preview butchered? [69 days and 5 minutes ago]

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 14:20:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> it's unclear whether the messages on the server that appear
> to have missing portions are in fact intact when
> viewed with a newsreader such as Thunderbird.
>
> Someone using Thunderbird or Chris Cason would have to investigate and determine
> what the exact problem is.
>
> - BE

Actually I may have just found another useful clue.

I was browsing a very old forum thread of mine (posted under a lost account
"Quartz") and noticed the problem happening to messages there also:
https://news.povray.org/povray.advanced-users/thread/%3Cweb.4e5f0af057ee503f2b8e18870%40news.povray.org%3E/?mtop=424594
&moff=10

What's telling here is that:
1. I don't remember experiencing this problem back then, and
2. The conversation seems to acknowledge the missing portions of the messages,
as if they were still visible at the time

At least for that old thread, I feel like this points toward the problem being
merely on output/display, i.e. that the messages still exist intact in the
website's storage.

I'm not sure if that logic applies equally to new messages posted today, but
there it is

[Peter Markley] Re: Recovered old POV-Ray scenes [69 days and 50 minutes ago]

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 13:35:00 GMT

(I tried to include the video thumbnail as an attachment, I think it dropped off
when I edited my message...)

[Peter Markley] Re: Message preview butchered? [69 days and 55 minutes ago]

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 13:30:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> The problem was usually when utf-8 character sets were trying to be displayed in
> the web-browser.
>
> Just curious what happens if you copy your message, paste into a plain text
> editor to scrub UTF-8 and substitute with plain ASCII, and then copy THAT text
> and paste back into the we message editor and then preview.
>
> - BE

Oh my goodness, THANK YOU! That does the trick

I was using a mobile keyboard that by default inserts typographical marks
instead of ASCII, so literally anything I typed that had an apostrophe or
quotation mark would get stomped on.

It was very confusing and distressing and I'm not sure I could have figured it
out without your tip!

[Peter Markley] Recovered old POV-Ray scenes [69 days and 55 minutes ago]

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 13:30:00 GMT

Hi all,

I've been a POV-Ray user since I was 7 years old, and recently we uncovered an
old archive disk that had my earliest scenes on it!

My dad was writing his own raytracer in 1987 on a MicroVAX I. In addition to the
archive disk, we also recovered an old Betamax tape of his work from that time
period.

I recorded an interview where he and I discussed all of this and showcased the
recovered artwork. It's going to premiere on my YouTube channel on June 18
(loosely in honor of Father's Day).

I hope it's okay if I share the YouTube link here: https://youtu.be/MXErvBZ3CGI

The video features a huge amount of my old POV-Ray work, spanning from 2000 to
2007. When it premieres I'd love to hear what you all think! :-D

[Bald Eagle] Re: Message preview butchered? [69 days 4 hours ago]

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 10:25:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > "Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > > The preview button erases huge portions of whatever I type.

> there used to be problems with accented letters and such, but I have not yet
> lost "portions of whatever I type".

The problem was usually when utf-8 character sets were trying to be displayed in
the web-browser.

I myself have experienced this issue, however, it's unclear whether the messages
on the server that appear to have missing portions are in fact intact when
viewed with a newsreader such as Thunderbird.

Someone using Thunderbird or Chris Cason would have to investigate and determine
what the exact problem is.

Just curious what happens if you copy your message, paste into a plain text
editor to scrub UTF-8 and substitute with plain ASCII, and then copy THAT text
and paste back into the we message editor and then preview.

- BE

[jr] Re: Message preview butchered? [69 days 7 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 07:10:00 GMT

hi,

"Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> "Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > The preview button erases huge portions of whatever I type. Help
>
> Testing one two three. This is a test because my confidence as a user is
> extremely undermined right now and as a desperate coping mechanism I am
> investigating and studying the problem behavior to gain more knowledge about
> in how to use the system and accomplish my goals

there used to be problems with accented letters and such, but I have not yet
lost "portions of whatever I type".  fingers crossed your problem was local and
temporary.


regards, jr.

[Peter Markley] Re: Message preview butchered? [69 days 8 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 06:20:00 GMT

"Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> The preview button erases huge portions of whatever I type. Help

Testing one two three. This is a test because my confidence as a user is
extremely undermined right now and as a desperate coping mechanism I am
investigating and studying the problem behavior to gain more knowledge about
in how to use the system and accomplish my goals

[Peter Markley] Message preview butchered? [69 days 8 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 06:05:00 GMT

The preview button erases huge portions of whatever I type. Help

[Bald Eagle] Re: Terms in scene description language [71 days 3 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Thu, 4 Jun 2026 10:40:00 GMT

Also keep in mind that you're going to have a devil of time searching for things
like Boolean "and", "or", and keywords with underscores (binary operations,
etc).

Numeric expressions is a good page for the math stuff.
Strings for text stuff.

If you have specific questions that simple searches don't answer, feel free to
ask, and we'll do what we can to get you squared away.

- BE

[ingo] Re: Terms in scene description language [71 days 4 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Thu, 4 Jun 2026 09:35:00 GMT

"jsampson45" <jrs### [at] ntlworldcom> wrote:
> Is there a searchable dictionary of terms in scene description language such as
> "object"? Google searches produce hits on "object" but not the definition and
> usage of the word in SDL.


https://wiki.povray.org/content/Reference:Keywords

ingo

[jsampson45] Terms in scene description language [71 days 5 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Thu, 4 Jun 2026 09:05:00 GMT

Is there a searchable dictionary of terms in scene description language such as
"object"? Google searches produce hits on "object" but not the definition and
usage of the word in SDL.

[Bald Eagle] Re: Made from a Coons patch [72 days 16 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Tue, 2 Jun 2026 22:00:00 GMT

"Tor Olav Kristensen" <tor### [at] TOBEREMOVEDgmailcom> wrote:
> there are three interpolations going on: one linear
> between one pair of opposing boundary curves, one linear between
> the other pair of opposing boundary curves, and one bilinear
> between the four corner points. Then the last one is subtracted
> from the sum of the first two to prevent double counting the
> corners.

Excellent.
My code for rendering a Coons patch does exactly that.

> > And of course, it's then trivial to calculate the mean and Gaussian curvature of
> > the surface at any point.
>
> I am afraid you are a bit ahead of me when it comes to those
> curvature calculations. It would be nice to have a function
> controlled pigment that shows the curvature across the surface.
> to see how you would implement that.

See attached.  Let me know if you need any references to explain how to
calculate the curvature.

> In fact,
> while writing this, I realized myself that the number of control
> points along opposing edges doesn't even need to be the same to
> begin with.

Yes, since we can interpolate along any edge, I would agree that the degree of
any Bezier curve describing an edge is irrelevant.

I am very interested in using the curvature to modulate a texture for purposes
similar to proximity patterns.  I know that there is an excellent ShaderToy
shader that demonstrates this.

I also think that using curvature to control "attractors" (discussed in another
recent thread) would be a very interesting application.

Also, there was a discussion about using patches and cubes to distort an object,
and I think it would be interesting to explore the possibility of using a patch
to distort a pattern mapped to a unit square.  I suppose that it would have to
be the inverse mapping of the unit square to the patch . . .

And you are right, this kind of thing is fun.
Regardless of the people who question our unique idea of "fun"  ;)

- BW

[Tor Olav Kristensen] Re: Made from a Coons patch [73 days 13 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Tue, 2 Jun 2026 01:10:00 GMT

"Tor Olav Kristensen" <tor### [at] TOBEREMOVEDgmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> An alternative way of doing it is to degree elevate the Bezier
> curves along each edge, so that the polynomials for each pair
> of opposing edges are the same.
>...

Sorry. Replace "are the same" with "have the same degree".

--
Tor Olav
http://subcube.com
https://github.com/t-o-k

[Tor Olav Kristensen] Re: Made from a Coons patch [73 days 13 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Tue, 2 Jun 2026 01:00:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Tor Olav Kristensen" <tor### [at] TOBEREMOVEDgmailcom> wrote:
> > I recently stumbled upon a web course on CAGD by Leonardo Fernandez-Jambrina and
> >
> > https://dcain.etsin.upm.es/~leonardo/eindex.html
>
> Nice.  I've seen that page before - I just haven't had time to delve into that
> topic again in any meaningful depth.
>
> > What caught my attention was chapter 6, where Coons patches are explained.
> >
> > I found it interesting that if a Coons patch is made by Bezier curves
> > along its edges, then one can make a Bezier control grid for the same
> > patch by doing degree elevation on its control grids.
>
> So that you have a subdivided patch . . . It's not instantly obvious why that's
> necessary.  Where does one stop subdividing / degree-elevating?

In a Coons patch with Bezier curves as edges, the degrees of the
interpolating polynomials along the edges depend on the number of
control points along each edge.

After that, there are three interpolations going on: one linear
between one pair of opposing boundary curves, one linear between
the other pair of opposing boundary curves, and one bilinear
between the four corner points. Then the last one is subtracted
from the sum of the first two to prevent double counting the
corners.

An alternative way of doing it is to degree elevate the Bezier
curves along each edge, so that the polynomials for each pair
of opposing edges are the same. This also makes the number of
control points along opposing edges the same. Then, one degree
elevates the grids formed by each pair of these control points
so that the number of control points matches the grid dimensions
of the other pair of edges. Thereafter, one degree elevates the
2x2 grid of control points in the corners to the same final grid
dimensions, allowing the control points of the three control
grids to be added and subtracted directly.

I've made an image (attached) that illustrates this alternative
way ofdoing it. (The arrows in it indicates degree elevations.)
Note that here the number of control points along each pair of
edges is already the same, but it does not need to be so. If it
is not, one has to do degree elevation on the lower-degree edge
curves first, until opposing edges have matching degrees and
control point counts. So the degree elevations stop when all
three control grids have the same dimensions.

> > Once one have such a Bezier control grid, one can use it to find the
> > partial derivatives of the surface. The cross product of these gives the
> > surface normal.
>
> Excellent.
>
> > When one have the surface normal, one can create offset surfaces. And
> > offset surfaces are the foundation for the triangle meshes in this image.
>
> And of course, it's then trivial to calculate the mean and Gaussian curvature of
> the surface at any point.

I am afraid you are a bit ahead of me when it comes to those
curvature calculations. It would be nice to have a function
controlled pigment that shows the curvature across the surface.
to see how you would implement that.

> 1. This is such an obviously TOK image, that I would be able to instantly pick
> it out from a page of image results.  You have a certain style that endures
> across decades of work.  :)

Hehe ;)

Thank you, I appreciate that! I didn't know my style was so
recognizable after all these years, but it's nice to know it
stands out.

> 2.  I can't tell you how happy I am that (aside from seeing WHY you'd need to
> degree-elevate) I can read what you've posted without any trouble whatsoever,
> and and feel confident that (given the control grid points) I could even write
> the SDL necessary to replicate your result in full.

Very good!

> Thanks for all of your help in guiding me to this point, and always pushing the
> envelope a little bit farther.

No problem.

Sometimes the process helps me understand things better. In fact,
while writing this, I realized myself that the number of control
points along opposing edges doesn't even need to be the same to
begin with.

It's always fun discussing these things since we enjoy working on
these same kinds of geometry puzzles.

--
Tor Olav
http://subcube.com
https://github.com/t-o-k

[Alain Martel] Re: how to make a blurry reflection? [74 days 1 hour and 42 minutes ago]

Mon, 1 Jun 2026 12:42:35 GMT

Le 2026-05-30 Ã  23:47, Cousin Ricky a Ã©critÂ :
> "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>> Hello, I have a question: how to make a blurred reflection in Povray version
>> 3.7?
> 
> This file contains macros that implement the solution that Kenneth referred to:
>    https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-RC3Metal/blob/main/rc3metal.inc
> 
> RC3Metal_Blur_t() is a naive implementation.  It's perfectly fine for a simple
> object with no other reflective object in the scene, but it can bring your CPU
> to its knees if there are mutual blurred reflections.

How to avoid this problem :
1) Give the objects with the blurred reflection the no_reflection attribute.
2) Create a second version of the objects with just normal reflection, 
or the micro-normals based blurred reflection, and the no_image attribute.

> 
> RC3Metal_Blur() uses the optimization that Alain described.
> 
> The argument t_Base is the reflective texture that you want to blur.
> 
> Note that if t_Base has a normal, the above macros will not work as expected.
> Use macros RC3Metal_Normal_blur_t() or RC3Metal_Normal_blur() if you want a
> blurred normal.
> 
> The entire library, including documentation and examples, can be downloaded at:
>    https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-RC3Metal
>

[Bald Eagle] Re: a paper [74 days 3 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Mon, 1 Jun 2026 10:45:00 GMT

ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> A paper that describes POV-Ray's internals. Had not seen it before, just
> skimmed through
>
>
https://dspace.bracu.ac.bd/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10361/678/04201001.pdf?sequence=4&isAllowed=y
>
> ingo

Thanks for this.   I haven't seen this one before, and I'm hoping to find some
interesting little gems in there.

- BW

[Bald Eagle] Re: Made from a Coons patch [74 days 3 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Mon, 1 Jun 2026 10:45:00 GMT

"Tor Olav Kristensen" <tor### [at] TOBEREMOVEDgmailcom> wrote:
> I recently stumbled upon a web course on CAGD by Leonardo Fernandez-Jambrina and
>
> https://dcain.etsin.upm.es/~leonardo/eindex.html

Nice.  I've seen that page before - I just haven't had time to delve into that
topic again in any meaningful depth.

> What caught my attention was chapter 6, where Coons patches are explained.
>
> I found it interesting that if a Coons patch is made by Bezier curves
> along its edges, then one can make a Bezier control grid for the same
> patch by doing degree elevation on its control grids.

So that you have a subdivided patch . . . It's not instantly obvious why that's
necessary.  Where does one stop subdividing / degree-elevating?

> Once one have such a Bezier control grid, one can use it to find the
> partial derivatives of the surface. The cross product of these gives the
> surface normal.

Excellent.

> When one have the surface normal, one can create offset surfaces. And
> offset surfaces are the foundation for the triangle meshes in this image.

And of course, it's then trivial to calculate the mean and Gaussian curvature of
the surface at any point.

1. This is such an obviously TOK image, that I would be able to instantly pick
it out from a page of image results.  You have a certain style that endures
across decades of work.  :)

2.  I can't tell you how happy I am that (aside from seeing WHY you'd need to
degree-elevate) I can read what you've posted without any trouble whatsoever,
and and feel confident that (given the control grid points) I could even write
the SDL necessary to replicate your result in full.

Thanks for all of your help in guiding me to this point, and always pushing the
envelope a little bit farther.

- BW

[Tor Olav Kristensen] Made from a Coons patch [74 days 21 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Sun, 31 May 2026 16:30:00 GMT

I recently stumbled upon a web course on CAGD by Leonardo Fernandez-Jambrina and

https://dcain.etsin.upm.es/~leonardo/eindex.html

What caught my attention was chapter 6, where Coons patches are explained.

I found it interesting that if a Coons patch is made by Bezier curves
along its edges, then one can make a Bezier control grid for the same
patch by doing degree elevation on its control grids.

Once one have such a Bezier control grid, one can use it to find the
partial derivatives of the surface. The cross product of these gives the
surface normal.

When one have the surface normal, one can create offset surfaces. And
offset surfaces are the foundation for the triangle meshes in this image.

--
Tor Olav
http://subcube.com
https://github.com/t-o-k

[Cossack ] Re: how to make a blurry reflection? [75 days 3 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Sun, 31 May 2026 10:45:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> On 26/05/2026 23:28, Kenneth wrote:
> > "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> >> Hello, I have a question: how to make a blurred reflection in Povray version
> >> 3.7?
> >
> > The method I know of is here, under the heading: "Is blurred reflection possible
> > in POV-ray?"
> >
> > https://wiki.povray.org/content/Knowledgebase:Language_Questions_and_Tips#Topic_13
> >
> > It works by averaging multiple almost-identical textures, each with a
> > different 'normal', to create the blur.
> >
>
> Thanks, Kenneth, for reminding us of this tip. I’d never tried it
> before, but you can get good results quickly with this method.
>
> #declare BlurAmount = 0.15;
> #declare BlurSamples = 40;
>
> normal {
>    wrinkles BlurAmount
>    translate <rand(S),rand(S),rand(S)>/2
>    scale 0.001
>    }
>
>
>
>
> --
> kurtz le pirate
> compagnie de la banquise

I managed to learn this result with 3 samples

[Cousin Ricky] Re: how to make a blurry reflection? [75 days 10 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Sun, 31 May 2026 03:50:00 GMT

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Hello, I have a question: how to make a blurred reflection in Povray version
> 3.7?

This file contains macros that implement the solution that Kenneth referred to:
  https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-RC3Metal/blob/main/rc3metal.inc

RC3Metal_Blur_t() is a naive implementation.  It's perfectly fine for a simple
object with no other reflective object in the scene, but it can bring your CPU
to its knees if there are mutual blurred reflections.

RC3Metal_Blur() uses the optimization that Alain described.

The argument t_Base is the reflective texture that you want to blur.

Note that if t_Base has a normal, the above macros will not work as expected.
Use macros RC3Metal_Normal_blur_t() or RC3Metal_Normal_blur() if you want a
blurred normal.

The entire library, including documentation and examples, can be downloaded at:
  https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-RC3Metal

[Cossack ] Re: how to make a blurry reflection? [75 days 21 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Sat, 30 May 2026 17:00:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> On 26/05/2026 23:28, Kenneth wrote:
> > "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> >> Hello, I have a question: how to make a blurred reflection in Povray version
> >> 3.7?
> >
> > The method I know of is here, under the heading: "Is blurred reflection possible
> > in POV-ray?"
> >
> > https://wiki.povray.org/content/Knowledgebase:Language_Questions_and_Tips#Topic_13
> >
> > It works by averaging multiple almost-identical textures, each with a
> > different 'normal', to create the blur.
> >
>
> Thanks, Kenneth, for reminding us of this tip. I’d never tried it
> before, but you can get good results quickly with this method.
>
> #declare BlurAmount = 0.15;
> #declare BlurSamples = 40;
>
> normal {
>    wrinkles BlurAmount
>    translate <rand(S),rand(S),rand(S)>/2
>    scale 0.001
>    }
>
>
>
>
> --
> kurtz le pirate
> compagnie de la banquise

It's a shame that I have a crappy phone, and my PC has passed on to a better
world.;]

[Leroy] Re: a paper [76 days 20 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Fri, 29 May 2026 17:45:00 GMT

ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> A paper that describes POV-Ray's internals. Had not seen it before, just
> skimmed through
>
>
https://dspace.bracu.ac.bd/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10361/678/04201001.pdf?sequence=4&isAllowed=y
>
> ingo

Cool! Now I have some more light reading :)

Have Fun!

[kurtz le pirate] Re: how to make a blurry reflection? [76 days 22 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Fri, 29 May 2026 16:18:37 GMT

On 26/05/2026 23:28, Kenneth wrote:
> "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>> Hello, I have a question: how to make a blurred reflection in Povray version
>> 3.7?
> 
> The method I know of is here, under the heading: "Is blurred reflection possible
> in POV-ray?"
> 
> https://wiki.povray.org/content/Knowledgebase:Language_Questions_and_Tips#Topic_13
> 
> It works by averaging multiple almost-identical textures, each with a
> different 'normal', to create the blur.
> 

Thanks, Kenneth, for reminding us of this tip. Iâ€™d never tried it 
before, but you can get good results quickly with this method.

#declare BlurAmount = 0.15;
#declare BlurSamples = 40;

normal {
   wrinkles BlurAmount
   translate <rand(S),rand(S),rand(S)>/2
   scale 0.001
   }




-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[ingo] a paper [77 days 8 hours and 19 minutes ago]

Fri, 29 May 2026 06:05:17 GMT

A paper that describes POV-Ray's internals. Had not seen it before, just 
skimmed through

https://dspace.bracu.ac.bd/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10361/678/04201001.pdf?sequence=4&isAllowed=y

ingo

[Mr] Re: Popularization of the POV-Ray program on Tik... [78 days 2 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Thu, 28 May 2026 12:10:00 GMT

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> The idea is simple: create content like memes, tutorials, videos, etc. Here's an
> example:

The first problem is adapting it to tiktok format: audio track needs to be

EITHER:
paired your renders with trending synthwave, chillwave, or retro-electronic
music to match the aesthetic.

OR:
original to avoid being censored. So what should a POV soundtrack be like? I
think sound samples from an on-topic talking podcast or tutorial, one that the
author would allow us to use could make a good backdrop... (e.g. SMCA: Stephen
Mc Avoy, with your awesome scottish accent, would you allow such derivative use
of your works?)

Then there is the content:

*WIP Videos: Users love seeing how things are made. So a time-lapse of a POV-Ray
scene compiling, or a "code vs. render" split screen, may perform very well.

*Satisfying Loops: POV-Ray is great for creating perfect, mathematically precise
loops (Möbius strips, fractals, morphing shapes) which are highly addictive to
watch.

* generally, using the below tags could federate and ease the virality:

#POVRay
#RetroCGI
#3DRender
#OldSchoolCGI
#FractalArt
#GenerativeArt

* Join Broader Communities: Post your work in the
#3DArtists
#DigitalArt

* Is there any challenge worth contributing to? These might be a fit:

#RetroCGIChallenge
#LowPolyArt
#FractalFriday

* When using Nostalgia & "Retro-Future" Aesthetic:
#Y2K
#AnalogHorror"
#RetroCGI

[Jim Henderson] --- [78 days 20 hours and 12 minutes ago]

Wed, 27 May 2026 18:12:20 GMT

On Wed, 27 May 2026 19:15:20 +0200, Lars Rohwedder wrote:

> None of them is free.

Read more closely; there's a "Replaced with" that has a free option, like 
Davinci Resolve replacing Adobe Premiere.

> What do they pay you for your advertising/spamming?

BE is a long-time member of the community, not a spammer.

To be fair, my initial reaction was similar, but then I read more closely, 
and saw that he was sharing "if you're paying for x, here's option y which 
at least has a free option".

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Lars Rohwedder] --- [78 days 21 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Wed, 27 May 2026 17:15:21 GMT

None of them is free.

What do they pay you for your advertising/spamming?

L.

[Cossack ] Popularization of the POV-Ray program on TikTok [79 days 2 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Wed, 27 May 2026 12:00:00 GMT

The idea is simple: create content like memes, tutorials, videos, etc. Here's an
example:

[Alain Martel] Re: how to make a blurry reflection? [79 days 3 hours and 17 minutes ago]

Wed, 27 May 2026 11:07:46 GMT

Le 2026-05-26 Ã  13:28, Cossack a Ã©critÂ :
> Hello, I have a question: how to make a blurred reflection in Povray version
> 3.7?

Work with versions 3.3+.
Two ways :
1) Micro-normals. Use some normal, like granite, scaled very small. Need 
to use antialiasing to work.
2) Averaged normals. Apply many normals randomly displaced. Really slow 
down the render. You must avoid inter reflections between surfaces with 
blurred refection. Use no_image and no_reflection this way : One object 
with the averaged normals and the no_reflection attribute. Don't show in 
reflections.
A second identical object with micro-normals or just normal reflection 
instead of the averaged normals, and the no_image attribute. Not visible 
directly, but shows in reflections.

Micro-normals work best with some averaging. Normally, 5 to 10 instances 
are OK.
Averaged normals usually demand 200+ instances.

=====================================================

With version 3.8 and radiosity, you can get blurred metallic reflection 
using brilliance.
Need to add Â«brilliance onÂ» in the radiosity block.
Need the surface to have a pretty high brilliance. Typically 100 to 1000.
This blurring seems to be similar to phong highlights : Higher value = 
more and sharper reflection.

[ingo] Re: how to make a blurry reflection? [79 days 7 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Wed, 27 May 2026 06:50:00 GMT

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Hello, I have a question: how to make a blurred reflection in Povray version
> 3.7?

Use a very scaled down normal and keep the "hight" of it relative big. Use a
patter like granite or noise like

ingo

[Kenneth] Re: how to make a blurry reflection? [79 days 16 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Tue, 26 May 2026 21:30:00 GMT

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Hello, I have a question: how to make a blurred reflection in Povray version
> 3.7?

The method I know of is here, under the heading: "Is blurred reflection possible
in POV-ray?"

https://wiki.povray.org/content/Knowledgebase:Language_Questions_and_Tips#Topic_13

It works by averaging multiple almost-identical textures, each with a
different 'normal', to create the blur.

[Cossack ] how to make a blurry reflection? [79 days 20 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Tue, 26 May 2026 17:30:00 GMT

Hello, I have a question: how to make a blurred reflection in Povray version
3.7?

[jr] Re: v3.8 documentation preview (5 May version) [80 days 3 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Tue, 26 May 2026 11:15:00 GMT

hi,

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > just to add, "we" would also like to know about other problems regarding the
> > documentation, for instance, are there any omissions[*] you may be aware of ?
>
> I'm sure I've commented on a few things over the past few years.

:-)

> ...
> Dunno if this has been fixed:
> https://news.povray.org/616c99b9%40news.povray.org

WFP's suggested wording was added (by JH) on the same day as his post.

> ...
> That's all for now

the "documented domain(s)" stuff has been noted.  thanks, very much.


regards, jr.

[Bald Eagle] Re: v3.8 documentation preview (5 May version) [80 days 15 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Mon, 25 May 2026 22:35:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> just to add, "we" would also like to know about other problems regarding the
> documentation, for instance, are there any omissions[*] you may be aware of ?

I'm sure I've commented on a few things over the past few years.

That can be tough to find, but I'll see what I can come up with off the top of
my head.

Functions like acos have a certain valid domain, and it would be very nice if
the input domain of the function was specifically listed for all such functions.

https://news.povray.org/povray.pov4.discussion.general/thread/%3Cweb.67ba4f111d1d35891f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org
%3E/

Dunno if this has been fixed:

https://news.povray.org/616c99b9%40news.povray.org

https://news.povray.org/povray.advanced-users/message/%3C5e933f68%241%40news.povray.org%3E/#%3C5e933f68%241%40news.povr
ay.org%3E

That's all for now

- BE

[jr] Re: v3.8 documentation preview (5 May version) [80 days 23 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Mon, 25 May 2026 15:15:00 GMT

hi,

Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> While the final content of the v3.8 documentation is certain to change (at a minimum
I want to update the Windows sec
tion, plus replace all images with larger ones), we thought it prudent to spin up a
docset to test the generation proce
ss since it has not been run since the server crash a while back.
>
> As some of you may know, the documentation on the Wiki is considered the master, and
thus we have some PHP code which
 pulls the content directly from the Wiki database, modifies it according to our needs
(e.g. converting wiki markup to 
HTML, pulling the images out of the wiki file storage), and then outputs the filesets
I will refer to below.
>
> In addition a special version of the windows docs are generated (separate from the
tarfile) from which the HtmlHelp C
HM file is generated.
>
> Due to changes in our OS install post-crash (particularly the PHP version), the PHP
scripts had to be updated to work
 with the current setup.
>
> I'd like to make a shout-out to forum regular jr who took on the task of getting
this all going and making the filese
ts I'm about to reference.
>
> Because we have had immense trouble with AI bots scraping the site (they almost all
ignore any robots.txt directives*
) and also because we do not want these pre-release docs indexed by any search engine,
I will not put the full path to 
the docs here; I am sure you can work it out :)
>
> They are on the povray site, in temp/05May2026Docs. There you will find three
tarballs (Mac, Windows and Unix) plus a
 Windows HtmlHelp file (.chm). There is also an online viewable version of the unix
docs (identical to what's in the ta
rball, I just extracted it as-is).
>
> I ask that you please do NOT share the full link anywhere public, and in particular
not in any site on the web that c
ould be indexed by search engines.


just to add, "we" would also like to know about other problems regarding the
documentation, for instance, are there any omissions[*] you may be aware of ?

[*] eg
<wiki.povray.org/content/Documentation:Tutorial_Section_1#Changes_and_New_Features_Summary>

if no one reports, finds cause to :-), we will then "move on" from middle of
June, or so.


regards, jr.

[ingo] Re: some of my little raytracer results [81 days 15 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Sun, 24 May 2026 23:05:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> what happens if, say, you re-render the same scene but with the camera moved a
> little, does the whole database need rewriting/rebuilding ?

Too some extent, yes. Too some extent, no.

The obvious answer that "doe not make any chocolate".

In the current way the renderer works I could define multiple cameras per trace.
Then what y're looking for would work. Else, sorry, no, re-render.

ingo

[jr] Re: some of my little raytracer results [82 days 4 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Sun, 24 May 2026 09:35:00 GMT

hi,

ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> In
> https://news.povray.org/povray.general/thread/%3C69f841da%40news.povray.org%3E/
>
> I wrote a bit about a little ray tracer I'm writing. Besides the image,
> it now writes a lot of data to a SQLite database. Amongst that is the
> ray graph
> for each pixel. This, with some other data can then be queried:
> ...
> My toy renderer is single threaded. It's 840 KB large and has SQLite
> build in.
> Without using the database it renders the image in ~0.3 s. with database
> it takes ~2 seconds more. The resulting database is a whopping 220292KB.
> For archiving it can be compressed ~5.5x by 7zip.

v interesting stuff, I wish I had "head space" for.

what happens if, say, you re-render the same scene but with the camera moved a
little, does the whole database need rewriting/rebuilding ?

thanks.


regards, jr.

[ingo] Re: some of my little raytracer results [84 days 7 hours and 42 minutes ago]

Fri, 22 May 2026 06:42:18 GMT

recreating the image from the ray-graph now works, takes half a second 
single threaded. That makes it possible to change the colour of a light 
in post production.

ingo

[MichaelJF] Re: Alien Head [84 days 20 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Thu, 21 May 2026 18:19:15 GMT

Am 20.05.26 um 20:57 schrieb Robert McGregor:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I was playing around with subsurface last night and needed an interesting test
> object to work with. So, I used PoseRay to convert this alien head model
> (downloaded from *somewhere* on the internet probably 15 years ago) from OBJ to
> Mesh2.
> 
> I think this little test came out pretty nice, so thought I'd share.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rob
> 
Very well done. The only thing is, the eyes look a little lifeless. 
Especially the creature's left eyeâ€”the one on the right in the image.

Did you turn off the SSS for the eyes or not?

Best regards
Michael

[ingo] some of my little raytracer results [85 days 6 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Thu, 21 May 2026 08:19:58 GMT

In 
https://news.povray.org/povray.general/thread/%3C69f841da%40news.povray.org%3E/ 

I wrote a bit about a little ray tracer I'm writing. Besides the image,
it now writes a lot of data to a SQLite database. Amongst that is the 
ray graph
for each pixel. This, with some other data can then be queried:


  NimRay Query tool
  renders analytical images from a NimRay database.

  Usage:
    nrq <database.db> <query> [options] [output.ppm]

  If output.ppm is omitted, writes P6 binary PPM to stdout.

  Queries:
    pixels              Final composited image
    reconstruct         Reconstruct image from raygraph + lightContribs
    primary             Primary hits only, no reflections (TODO)
    normals             Surface normal map (XYZ â†’ RGB)
    depth [near] [far]  Depth map (default near=0.1 far=20.0)
    raygraphlength      Ray graph length per pixel
    bouncedepth         Deepest reflection bounce per pixel
    albedo              Material base colour, no lighting
    shadow              Shadow occlusion fraction per pixel
    ao                  Ambient occlusion approximation
    shapemask           Shape/background mask (white=hit, black=miss)
    light <n>           Contribution of light N
    reflectiondepth <n> Reflection rays at exactly depth N
    crossshape <y> <x>  Pixels where primary hit shape Y, reflection hit 
shape X

Most of it works fine. The one that doesn't yet is a complete image
reconstruction from the ray-graph. Can't get the query going properly. 
It works for a single ray, but running that for each pixel also takes
ages.

So far a lot of analytical data can be extracted, see images. An 
interesting one
is the ray-graph length. It could be used to analyze and subdivide the
multithreaded work load over different sized areas.

My toy renderer is single threaded. It's 840 KB large and has SQLite 
build in.
Without using the database it renders the image in ~0.3 s. with database
it takes ~2 seconds more. The resulting database is a whopping 220292KB. 
For archiving it can be compressed ~5.5x by 7zip.

Each of the analytical images are created in less than a second, didn't 
time them.

ingo

[Bald Eagle] Re: Alien Head [85 days 13 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Thu, 21 May 2026 00:30:00 GMT

No self-portraits!


:D

[Robert McGregor] Alien Head [85 days 19 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Wed, 20 May 2026 19:00:00 GMT

Hi everyone,

I was playing around with subsurface last night and needed an interesting test
object to work with. So, I used PoseRay to convert this alien head model
(downloaded from *somewhere* on the internet probably 15 years ago) from OBJ to
Mesh2.

I think this little test came out pretty nice, so thought I'd share.

Cheers,
Rob

[kurtz le pirate] Re: RSOCP: the metallic learning curve [85 days 23 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Wed, 20 May 2026 14:26:02 GMT

On 18/05/2026 00:23, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
>> ... I accumulated a folder full of subfolders of
>> RSOCPs, which I didn't consider perfect enough to post at the time.  In
>> recent years, though, I've been posting occasional renders from these
>> subfolders.
>>
>> Here are samples from one series from one of those subfolders, showing
>> improved metallic textures over the years.
> 
> Here is the scene with improved (I think) light blooming, and some tweaked brass
> colors.  The new brass colors are:
> 
> For assumed_gamma 1:
>    Warm brass    rgbft CHSV2RGB (<35, 0.88, 0.99>)
>    Medium brass  rgbft CHSV2RGB (<38, 0.78, 0.99>)
>    Yellow brass  rgbft CHSV2RGB (<47, 0.68, 0.91>)
> 
> For any other assumed_gamma:
>    Warm brass    srgb <0.9956, 0.8135, 0.3793>
>    Medium brass  srgb <0.9956, 0.8580, 0.5040>
>    Yellow brass  srgb <0.9593, 0.8942, 0.5760>

What a job! You really are the MASTER OF LIGHTS.



-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Cossack ] Re: RSOCP: the metallic learning curve [87 days 4 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Tue, 19 May 2026 09:40:00 GMT

"Cousin Ricky" <rickysttATyahooDOTcom> wrote:
> Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> > ... I accumulated a folder full of subfolders of
> > RSOCPs, which I didn't consider perfect enough to post at the time.  In
> > recent years, though, I've been posting occasional renders from these
> > subfolders.
> >
> > Here are samples from one series from one of those subfolders, showing
> > improved metallic textures over the years.
>
> Here is the scene with improved (I think) light blooming, and some tweaked brass
> colors.  The new brass colors are:
>
> For assumed_gamma 1:
>   Warm brass    rgbft CHSV2RGB (<35, 0.88, 0.99>)
>   Medium brass  rgbft CHSV2RGB (<38, 0.78, 0.99>)
>   Yellow brass  rgbft CHSV2RGB (<47, 0.68, 0.91>)
>
> For any other assumed_gamma:
>   Warm brass    srgb <0.9956, 0.8135, 0.3793>
>   Medium brass  srgb <0.9956, 0.8580, 0.5040>
>   Yellow brass  srgb <0.9593, 0.8942, 0.5760>

  can you provide the project code?

[Cousin Ricky] Re: RSOCP: the metallic learning curve [88 days 16 hours ago]

Sun, 17 May 2026 22:25:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> ... I accumulated a folder full of subfolders of
> RSOCPs, which I didn't consider perfect enough to post at the time.  In
> recent years, though, I've been posting occasional renders from these
> subfolders.
>
> Here are samples from one series from one of those subfolders, showing
> improved metallic textures over the years.

Here is the scene with improved (I think) light blooming, and some tweaked brass
colors.  The new brass colors are:

For assumed_gamma 1:
  Warm brass    rgbft CHSV2RGB (<35, 0.88, 0.99>)
  Medium brass  rgbft CHSV2RGB (<38, 0.78, 0.99>)
  Yellow brass  rgbft CHSV2RGB (<47, 0.68, 0.91>)

For any other assumed_gamma:
  Warm brass    srgb <0.9956, 0.8135, 0.3793>
  Medium brass  srgb <0.9956, 0.8580, 0.5040>
  Yellow brass  srgb <0.9593, 0.8942, 0.5760>

[yesbird] Re: Big Bang (Theory) [88 days 20 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Sun, 17 May 2026 17:45:04 GMT

On 16/05/2026 15:37, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Next you'll be condensing molecules into clouds of matter, which become planets,
> and suns, and ...  ;)

Also please don't forget a dark matter and black cat in the dark room:
https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/news/james-webb-space-telescope-dark-matter-map
-- 
YB

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Font render problem [89 days 5 hours and 27 minutes ago]

Sun, 17 May 2026 08:57:34 GMT

On 17/05/2026 10:38, JÃ¶rg "Yadgar" Bleimann wrote:

> 
> I tried another font from the downloaded Google Fonts selection (i. e. 
> "AwamiNastaliq Bold" - which, for its Arabic/Persian part, might come in 
> quite handy in future Khyberspace!) - and voilÃ , it works!
> 

I ran a few tests using various Google fonts chosen at random.
This bug affects many fonts but, some of them are "fine".
You found AwamiNastaliq, which seems correct

-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann] Re: Font render problem [89 days 5 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Sun, 17 May 2026 08:39:08 GMT

Hi(gh)!

Am 17.05.26 um 02:11 schrieb Bald Eagle:

> Have you tried playing with _inverse_?

Didn't work either!

> I don't think there's an easy fix.  Maybe try to find another, better font.

I tried another font from the downloaded Google Fonts selection (i. e. 
"AwamiNastaliq Bold" - which, for its Arabic/Persian part, might come in 
quite handy in future Khyberspace!) - and voilÃ , it works!

See you in Khyberspce!

Yadgar

-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

[Bald Eagle] Re: Font render problem [89 days 14 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Sun, 17 May 2026 00:15:00 GMT

> I started using free Google
> fonts (OFL license), but with these fonts I get strange XOR effects, as
> you see in the attached frame #100 from my current animation... how do I
> get rid of this?

That looks to me to be some sort of polygon inside () test result.
Likely the font was lazily made, and so you have self-overlapping /
self-intersecting regions.

Apart from fixing the outline of the font, I'm not sure.

Have you tried playing with _inverse_?

I don't think there's an easy fix.  Maybe try to find another, better font.

Maybe try a font editor?

- BE

[Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann] Font render problem [89 days 17 hours and 22 minutes ago]

Sat, 16 May 2026 21:02:20 GMT

Hi(gh)!

Since about two months, I generate running text GIF animations with 
POV-Ray as a creative way to implore a dear friend to finally, finally, 
finally buy himself a new laptop (after his old one broke down beyond 
repair about a year ago)... and recently, I started using free Google 
fonts (OFL license), but with these fonts I get strange XOR effects, as 
you see in the attached frame #100 from my current animation... how do I 
get rid of this?

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

[yesbird] Re: Big Bang (Theory) [90 days 1 hour and 19 minutes ago]

Sat, 16 May 2026 13:06:12 GMT

On 16/05/2026 15:37, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Next you'll be condensing molecules into clouds of matter, which become planets,
> and suns, and ...  ;)
>

Doing the Creator job ?
-- 
YB

[Bald Eagle] Re: Big Bang (Theory) [90 days 1 hour and 45 minutes ago]

Sat, 16 May 2026 12:40:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:

> My "pseudo-generator"” isn't that far off from reality
>
> Thanks BE

Of course.  :)

1. I'd rearrange the 5-outer atoms into a trigonal bipyramid.
That's how almost everything is structured, for orbital reasons.

2. You could look up the atomic radii of all the atoms, the covalent bond
lengths, and the usual colors of the atoms in molecular model kits.  Maybe do
more of a blob, or CPK space-filling kind of representation.

3. If you modeled a little square or box, you could simulate reactions.  Detect
collisions, and then combine molecules or swap atoms. You could try something
simple like the N02 <---> N2O4 equilibrium.

4. Astronomers estimate that roughly 10% to 25% of all elemental carbon in space
is locked up in Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons.  You'll LOVE those.

:D

Good work - you should make a sudden flash at the beginning of the animation.

Next you'll be condensing molecules into clouds of matter, which become planets,
and suns, and ...  ;)

- BE

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Big Bang (Theory) [90 days 5 hours and 18 minutes ago]

Sat, 16 May 2026 09:06:19 GMT

On 14/05/2026 12:45, Bald Eagle wrote:

> 
> If you want molecular complexity, you can have 1 or 2 atoms bonded, and 3, 4, 5,
> or 6 atoms bonded to a central atom at maximal angular distances from one
> another.
> See "Valence Shell Electron Pair Repulsion" (VSEPR) theory.


My "pseudo-generator"â€ isn't that far off from reality

Thanks BE


-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Droj] Re: Big Bang (Theory) [90 days 16 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Fri, 15 May 2026 22:20:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> Excellent !
> Thanks to you now I know how all these begun ...
> --
> YB

YB, good statement above.
And thanks to B.E.'s comment you now should be enlighted!

Droj

[Bald Eagle] Re: v3.8 documentation preview (5 May version) [90 days 22 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Fri, 15 May 2026 15:50:00 GMT

Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:

> I'd like to make a shout-out to forum regular jr who took on the task of getting
this all going and making the filese
ts I'm about to reference.

Slightly disappointed that the shout-out to jr was not in ALL CAPS.  :D

Excellent to hear that things are getting spruced up a bit.

There are thousands of ridiculously large data centers that are being built, and
people are even losing their homes and farms to "eminent domain", water prices
and electricity prices are going up, and computer memory is commanding
top-dollar.

Data centers so large that economists have determined that the scale is far
beyond what any reasonable investor would build and expect to pay off with the
profit from expected consumer usage.

Something wicked this way comes.

If only Google would index our site as thoroughly as AI scrapes it . . .  :|

Keep up the good work.

- BE

[ingo] Re: v3.8 documentation preview (5 May version) [91 days and 16 minutes ago]

Fri, 15 May 2026 14:08:54 GMT

On 2026-05-15 09:08, Chris Cason wrote:
> Regarding the AI scrapers ...

First at thank you to all working on POV-Ray!

Second, Chris, maybe put the AI part on the front page news. Many sites 
have been hit by this.

ingo

[yesbird] Re: v3.8 documentation preview (5 May version) [91 days 2 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Fri, 15 May 2026 11:47:35 GMT

On 15/05/2026 07:07, Chris Cason wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> While the final content of the v3.8 documentation is certain to change 
> (at a minimum I want to update the Windows section, plus replace all 
> images with larger ones), we thought it prudent to spin up a docset to 
> test the generation process since it has not been run since the server 
> crash a while back.
> ...

Many thanks, Chris, for your hard work !

Unix online documentation is very useful and the Windows version
looks fine, even with the present size of images.
--
YB

[Chris Cason] Re: v3.8 documentation preview (5 May version) [91 days 7 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Fri, 15 May 2026 07:09:06 GMT

Regarding the AI scrapers ...

Just in the last week we've been hit badly by them - its been going on for longer, but
it really ramped up in the past 7 days - one of which was stuck stupidly scraping
every possible permutation of the wiki, particularly the special pages, which require
much more DB time than ordinary pages. jr alerted me to the fact the system load was
sitting at 4 (normally it idles at around 0.3) and when I investigated I found the
wiki being absolutely hammered. I did a "tail -f" on the logfile and it was scrolling
too fast to easily read. The bot in question is IMO badly written as it's not as if
MediaWiki structure is uncommon (looking at you, meta ... 1.5m requests to the wiki
alone, consuming 76 GB of HTML).

Not to be outdone, I also found the old bugs.povray.org site being hammered, again by
a bot scraping every possible permutation of the content (sorting, filtering, etc ...
looking at you, apple).

Between just those two instances, just in the last week, they managed to generate more
than 30gb of log files alone. The total bandwidth consumed is not known as I did not
have cloudflare enabled for the bugs site (it is now), but I did for the wiki and,
well, I'll let the screenshots do the talking.

I have turned on cloudflare's AI bot defense which has quieted things quite a bit (see
the final image, aftermath.png - it was taken the day after I turned the bot
protection on). However I cannot yet enable cloudflare on the main website (I have to
fix a bug in the login process that only occurs when it's turned on) so it's still
vulnerable (as is the news server).

Look, see and understand why I don't want them darn AI bots finding something else to
chew on ...

[Chris Cason] v3.8 documentation preview (5 May version) [91 days 10 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Fri, 15 May 2026 04:09:51 GMT

Folks,

While the final content of the v3.8 documentation is certain to change (at a minimum I
want to update the Windows section, plus replace all images with larger ones), we
thought it prudent to spin up a docset to test the generation process since it has not
been run since the server crash a while back.

As some of you may know, the documentation on the Wiki is considered the master, and
thus we have some PHP code which pulls the content directly from the Wiki database,
modifies it according to our needs (e.g. converting wiki markup to HTML, pulling the
images out of the wiki file storage), and then outputs the filesets I will refer to
below.

In addition a special version of the windows docs are generated (separate from the
tarfile) from which the HtmlHelp CHM file is generated.

Due to changes in our OS install post-crash (particularly the PHP version), the PHP
scripts had to be updated to work with the current setup.

I'd like to make a shout-out to forum regular jr who took on the task of getting this
all going and making the filesets I'm about to reference.

Because we have had immense trouble with AI bots scraping the site (they almost all
ignore any robots.txt directives*) and also because we do not want these pre-release
docs indexed by any search engine, I will not put the full path to the docs here; I am
sure you can work it out :)

They are on the povray site, in temp/05May2026Docs. There you will find three tarballs
(Mac, Windows and Unix) plus a Windows HtmlHelp file (.chm). There is also an online
viewable version of the unix docs (identical to what's in the tarball, I just
extracted it as-is).

I ask that you please do NOT share the full link anywhere public, and in particular
not in any site on the web that could be indexed by search engines.

* see my followup post as to just how bad it was

-- Chris

[yesbird] Re: Attractive Attractors [91 days 19 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Thu, 14 May 2026 18:50:41 GMT

On 14/05/2026 21:09, Droj wrote:
> 
> I am still playing with them and it's a neverending story again.
>

Agree, and I like this "golden" implementation ).
-- 
YB

[Droj] Re: Attractive Attractors [91 days 20 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Thu, 14 May 2026 18:10:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:

>
> Yes, they are really attractive ).
>
> Not long ago I started to play with them too and found this page:
> https://www.dynamicmath.xyz/strange-attractors/#thomas
> --
> YB

I am still playing with them and it's a neverending story again.


Droj

[Droj] Re: Attractive Attractors [91 days 20 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Thu, 14 May 2026 18:05:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Droj" <803### [at] drojde> wrote:
>
> > Ilya, great job and I will dive into your 'Slimy Mudhole'!
>
> If you guys need some time alone . . .
>
> :o

It's just the name of his website:
The Toad's Slimy Mudhole: <<https://dnyarri.github.io/>>

Droj

[Droj] Re: Attractive Attractors [91 days 20 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Thu, 14 May 2026 18:00:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:

>
>
> Good start ;)
>
> I think you're familiar with them, but there are these two pages on
> attractors that are really interesting:
>
> -> <https://www.josleys.com/articles/ams_article/Lorenz3.htm>
> -> <https://paulbourke.net/fractals/clifford/>
>
> --
> kurtz le pirate
> compagnie de la banquise

Thanks!

Jos Leys' site is very interesting, thanks.

I know the Paul Bourke website you mentioned and I rendered a lot of the
Clifford attractors - very entertaining for rainy days.

Droj

[Bald Eagle] Re: Attractive Attractors [92 days and 5 minutes ago]

Thu, 14 May 2026 14:20:00 GMT

There are also "computer graphics" attractors.

More of a modulated procedural pattern.

They are used in packages like Grasshopper, Maya, etc.

I've played around a bit with things like this before I even knew they had a
name.
https://news.povray.org/povray.general/thread/%3C648dba33%241%40news.povray.org%3E/
I know that Mike Williams, Tek, and others have done similar things, and it's
really interesting once you couple the concept with not only modulating size -
but any attribute.

Size
Shape
Color
alpha
finish
ior

.....

You can also use the attractor values as the input for an interpolation.
So you can do cool things like use SDFs or isosurfaces or any other kind of
function, and mix various functions as you move around on a surface.

- BE

[yesbird] Re: Attractive Attractors [92 days 2 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Thu, 14 May 2026 12:10:09 GMT

On 14/05/2026 10:26, kurtz le pirate wrote:
> Good start ;)
> 
> I think you're familiar with them, but there are these two pages on 
> attractors that are really interesting:
> 
> -> <https://www.josleys.com/articles/ams_article/Lorenz3.htm>
> -> <https://paulbourke.net/fractals/clifford/>
>

Yes, they are really attractive ).

Not long ago I started to play with them too and found this page:
https://www.dynamicmath.xyz/strange-attractors/#thomas
-- 
YB

[yesbird] Re: Big Bang (Theory) [92 days 2 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Thu, 14 May 2026 11:46:00 GMT

On 11/05/2026 18:47, kurtz le pirate wrote:
> You've got to find something to do when it's been raining for three days...
Excellent !
Thanks to you now I know how all these begun ...
-- 
YB

[Bald Eagle] Re: Attractive Attractors [92 days 3 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Thu, 14 May 2026 10:50:00 GMT

"Droj" <803### [at] drojde> wrote:

> Ilya, great job and I will dive into your 'Slimy Mudhole'!

If you guys need some time alone . . .

:o

[Bald Eagle] Re: Big Bang (Theory) [92 days 3 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Thu, 14 May 2026 10:50:00 GMT

"Droj" <803### [at] drojde> wrote:

> Great! One more highlight for rainy days by KLP!
>
> Droj
> PS: Can't wait how B.E. will comment your flying molecules :-))

{sigh}
My forum work is never done.

The "molecules" are structurally fine - discounting the fact that during the
"Big Bang" there would be so much energy that stable molecules wouldn't even
exist.
Also, there would be so much "stuff" flying around, that it would be impossible
to see anything.

I recall watching a video where things had to condense prior to photons being
able to pass through the soup.

With regard to physics, this reminds me of this thread:
https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.animations/thread/%3Cweb.5bb40ea6ecc49961a47873e10%40news.povray.org%3E/?mtop=4
26573

Make your molecules spin, and possibly add a tiny wobble/nutation.
Things moving in a vacuum don't change direction in the absence of collision.
So make them spin constantly and wobble constantly.  It will look more
"natural".  At present, it kinda makes me twitch.  ;)

If you want molecular complexity, you can have 1 or 2 atoms bonded, and 3, 4, 5,
or 6 atoms bonded to a central atom at maximal angular distances from one
another.
See "Valence Shell Electron Pair Repulsion" (VSEPR) theory.

- BE

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Big Bang (Theory) [92 days 6 hours and 54 minutes ago]

Thu, 14 May 2026 07:31:10 GMT

On 14/05/2026 01:18, Droj wrote:
> 
> ...
> PS: Can't wait how B.E. will comment your flying molecules :-))
> 
> 

I think he's going to be horrified !

My "molecule generator" is much more mathematical than it is based on 
chemistry or physics principles. This results in things that aren't real.

-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Attractive Attractors [92 days 6 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Thu, 14 May 2026 07:26:06 GMT

On 14/05/2026 01:06, Droj wrote:
> Hi to all,
> 
> While exploring the world of 2D and 3D attractors - exploration NOT yet finished
> but I rendered quite a bunch - I had the idea to look for something that makes
> 2D attractors still more attractive. I thought about using a density map but
> what I found was far beyond my skills - at least for now.
> 
> Well, to put it in a nutshell:
> I remembered Ilya Razmanov's 'Img2mesh' converter.
> Installed Python 3.14 and gathered the necessary Img2mesh files and after using
> some Gaussian blur on my attractor image (see original img resized to 800x600 on
> the left, 200k spheres) I fed it to 'Img2mesh'.
> 
> A 'quick and dirty' job! I didn't pay attention to the size of my original POV
> image (1600x1200 px) but 'Img2mesh' ate it and spat out a 144 Mb POV file in no
> more than 2 minutes.
> 
> I did not expect too much - I used the output file as is - and, wonders never
> cease - after 49 minutes I got a result that almost knocked me off the rocker
> (see img resized to 800x600 on the right).
> 
> Ilya, great job and I will dive into your 'Slimy Mudhole'!
> 



Good start ;)

I think you're familiar with them, but there are these two pages on 
attractors that are really interesting:

-> <https://www.josleys.com/articles/ams_article/Lorenz3.htm>
-> <https://paulbourke.net/fractals/clifford/>







-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Droj] Re: Big Bang (Theory) [92 days 15 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Wed, 13 May 2026 23:20:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> You've got to find something to do when it's been raining for three days...
>
>
>
> --
> kurtz le pirate
> compagnie de la banquise

Great! One more highlight for rainy days by KLP!

Droj
PS: Can't wait how B.E. will comment your flying molecules :-))

[Droj] Attractive Attractors [92 days 15 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Wed, 13 May 2026 23:10:00 GMT

Hi to all,

While exploring the world of 2D and 3D attractors - exploration NOT yet finished
but I rendered quite a bunch - I had the idea to look for something that makes
2D attractors still more attractive. I thought about using a density map but
what I found was far beyond my skills - at least for now.

Well, to put it in a nutshell:
I remembered Ilya Razmanov's 'Img2mesh' converter.
Installed Python 3.14 and gathered the necessary Img2mesh files and after using
some Gaussian blur on my attractor image (see original img resized to 800x600 on
the left, 200k spheres) I fed it to 'Img2mesh'.

A 'quick and dirty' job! I didn't pay attention to the size of my original POV
image (1600x1200 px) but 'Img2mesh' ate it and spat out a 144 Mb POV file in no
more than 2 minutes.

I did not expect too much - I used the output file as is - and, wonders never
cease - after 49 minutes I got a result that almost knocked me off the rocker
(see img resized to 800x600 on the right).

Ilya, great job and I will dive into your 'Slimy Mudhole'!

Cheers
Droj

[Bald Eagle] Re: SOR documentation [92 days 16 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Wed, 13 May 2026 21:50:00 GMT

Here's an overview of what I'm planning on doing with sor {}.

in parser.cpp, I'll be removing
if (P[i][X] < 0.0)

In part because it will allow placing the tangent-determining control points
anywhere,
and because I plan on extending the rendering of the sor to the parts that are
currently
not rendered when they cross or get interpolated across the y-axis into -x

The control points will be used to derive the cubic equation of the spline, and
then the
curve equation to will be evaluated to determine if the curve crosses the
y-axis.  If so,
a warning will be issued.
Then the roots (the points where the curve crosses the y-axis) will be found.
The Catmull-Rom spline will be subdivided by creating new subsegments up to the
roots, between the roots, and beyond the roots.

The cubic equation coefficients get stored as A, B, C, and D.
In regions where the spline goes negative in X will have all of the signs of the
coefficients flipped.
That will yield a valid region of the spline segment.

The whole spline will therefore be visibly rendered.

Guard checks on the x & y values, and the height of the spline segments that
include the tangent-controlling points will be fixed to remove the unnecessary
errors.

I have plans to emit the volume of the sor object, and a way to uv-map the
curvature of the surface. (see attached)

Long-term, it would be great to allow defining the sor profile as a spline {}
object and using that spline in the sor {} block syntax.
That would allow using linear and quadratic splines in the sor as well.
The spline would allow easy graphing the cross-section of the sor if desired.
This would also create a new centripetal Catmull-Rom spline type.

Potentially, the positive and negative portions of the sor spline could be
rendered independently.
Allowing descending y-values for the sor would be nice, to allow for
conceptually modelling a sor in the opposite direction.

[Bald Eagle] Re: SOR documentation [93 days 3 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Wed, 13 May 2026 10:50:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:

> POV-Ray complains when I have a control point with an x component that is
> negative.

> So then how is the error getting triggered if there is no testing the x-value???

Thanks to jr hunting this down while I was busy with other things!

parser.cpp starting at line 5665
if ((Points[i][X] < 0.0) ||
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ and there we go.

            ((i > 1 ) && (i < Object->Number - 1) && (Points[i][Y] <=
Points[i-1][Y])))
        {
            Error("Incorrect point in surface of revolution.");
        }

The more I do this, the more I see exactly what clipka meant about the parser.

All of these tests and guards ought to be isolated in sor.cpp, not smeared all
over the source codebase.

- BE

[Bald Eagle] Re: SOR documentation [94 days 14 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Mon, 11 May 2026 23:40:00 GMT

I am working on documenting and editing the source, as well as doing some work
in SDL.

Perhaps someone can help me out here.
I have some ideas about using and testing the control points of the spline.

POV-Ray complains when I have a control point with an x component that is
negative.  However, the only place that I can find the error, and the conditions
that trigger it - are here:

Starting at line 1005 of sor.cpp
https://github.com/POV-Ray/povray/blob/master/source/core/shape/sor.cpp

        if ((fabs(P[i+2][Y] - P[i][Y]) < EPSILON) ||
            (fabs(P[i+3][Y] - P[i+1][Y]) < EPSILON))
        {
            throw POV_EXCEPTION_STRING("Incorrect point in surface of
revolution.");
        }

But that code only uses the y-values, and only tests the size of the difference
between the y values of 2 sets of control points.  It certainly does NOT include
the x-value of a control point.

So then how is the error getting triggered if there is no testing the x-value???

- BE


sor {
 6
 <-2.0, 0.5>,
 <-1.0, 1>,
 <-0.1, 2>,
 <-0.2, 3>,
 <-1.0, 4>,
 <-2.0, 5>
 pigment {rgb z}
}

[Leroy] Re: Big Bang (Theory) [94 days 20 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Mon, 11 May 2026 17:50:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> You've got to find something to do when it's been raining for three days...
>
>
>
> --
> kurtz le pirate
> compagnie de la banquise

Time well wasted!

[kurtz le pirate] Big Bang (Theory) [94 days 22 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Mon, 11 May 2026 15:47:17 GMT

Hi,


You've got to find something to do when it's been raining for three days...



-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[jr] Re: Light bleed include file [96 days and 5 minutes ago]

Sun, 10 May 2026 14:20:00 GMT

hi,

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> This is the file I have used for diffraction spike post-processing.  It
> is still in the debugging phase, but it's good enough to share at this
> point.

fwiw, I (really :-)) like the design of the 'LtBl__Image_map()' macro, food for
thought..

regards, jr.

[kurtz le pirate] Re: SOR documentation [96 days 6 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Sun, 10 May 2026 07:41:09 GMT

On 10/05/2026 04:02, Tor Olav Kristensen wrote:
> "Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
>> Thank, Ingo - for this and all the other attached work.
>> The spline + shape from the docs is very informative.
>>
>> The sor is a centripetal Catmull rom cubic Hermite spline with a tension, or
>> exponent of 0.5.
>>
>> I'm not sure what cubic_spline is, but having played with that one in the past,
>> it may not be.  I'm pretty sure that TOK has implemented the natural cubic
>> spline.
>> ...
> 
> Yes, I did - some years ago ;-)
> 
> Newsgroup: povray.text.scene-files
> From: Tor Olav Kristensen
> Subject: Even spacing of points along natural cubic splines
> Date: 2010-12-12 09:30:00
>
http://news.povray.org/povray.text.scene-files/thread/%3Cweb.4d04dadb31d78932c734aecd0%40news.povray.org%3E/



A few experiments I had also conducted, but for BÃ©zier curves.
SDL attached.


-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Tor Olav Kristensen] Re: SOR documentation [96 days 12 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Sun, 10 May 2026 02:05:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Thank, Ingo - for this and all the other attached work.
> The spline + shape from the docs is very informative.
>
> The sor is a centripetal Catmull rom cubic Hermite spline with a tension, or
> exponent of 0.5.
>
> I'm not sure what cubic_spline is, but having played with that one in the past,
> it may not be.  I'm pretty sure that TOK has implemented the natural cubic
> spline.
>...

Yes, I did - some years ago ;-)

Newsgroup: povray.text.scene-files
From: Tor Olav Kristensen
Subject: Even spacing of points along natural cubic splines
Date: 2010-12-12 09:30:00
http://news.povray.org/povray.text.scene-files/thread/%3Cweb.4d04dadb31d78932c734aecd0%40news.povray.org%3E/

--
Tor Olav
http://subcube.com
https://github

[Cousin Ricky] Light bleed include file [96 days 19 hours and 22 minutes ago]

Sat, 9 May 2026 19:02:18 GMT

This is the file I have used for diffraction spike post-processing.  It
is still in the debugging phase, but it's good enough to share at this
point.

Rudimentary documentation is available at:
  https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-LightBleed

[ingo] Re: SOR documentation [97 days 1 hour and 48 minutes ago]

Sat, 9 May 2026 12:36:46 GMT

On 2026-05-09 13:39, Bald Eagle wrote:
> centripetal Catmull

Ah, the one that got away. Not doable with curve.inc in it's current 
state. In my Nim curve lib, the same state as for natural cubic. Find 
slopes and the use Hermite interpolation. So I cannot create a curve of 
spheres for POV-Ray from there either.



ingo

[Bald Eagle] Re: SOR documentation [97 days 2 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Sat, 9 May 2026 11:40:00 GMT

Thank, Ingo - for this and all the other attached work.
The spline + shape from the docs is very informative.

The sor is a centripetal Catmull rom cubic Hermite spline with a tension, or
exponent of 0.5.

I'm not sure what cubic_spline is, but having played with that one in the past,
it may not be.  I'm pretty sure that TOK has implemented the natural cubic
spline.

I'll have to pull up github or the 3.7 source on my local machine and hunt down
all of the implementations of spline types so that I can find out where they all
are and accurately classify them.

Thet really need to be all in one place, and not buried inside specific shapes
like CR is with sor.

- BW

[ingo] Re: SOR documentation [97 days 4 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Sat, 9 May 2026 10:04:51 GMT

On 2026-05-09 09:36, ingo wrote:
> The CatmullRom is a case of Cardinal spline

Added Cardinal and played with tension.

---%<------cardinal for curve.inc---%<------%<---
#macro CIcardinal(CIarr, Tension)
   //:Quadratic Cardinal curve
   #local DimSeg = 4;
   #local Step = 1;
   #local Div = 1;
   #local T = (1 - Tension) / 2;
   #local Matrix = array[4]{
       array[4]{     -T, 2.0 - T,         T - 2.0,   T},
       array[4]{2.0 * T, T - 3.0, 3.0 - (2.0 * T),  -T},
       array[4]{     -T,     0.0,               T, 0.0,},
       array[2]{    0.0,     1.0}
   }
   _CIinit(CIarr, DimSeg, Step, Matrix)
#end
---%<------%<------%<------%<---


---%<------cardinal for scene file---%<------%<---
#declare Test = CIcardinal(vC, 0.65);
#for(T, 0, 1, 0.0015)
   sphere{CIget(Test, T), 0.05 pigment{rgb <1,0,0>} translate <0.1,0,0>}
#end
---%<------%<------%<------%<---

neither of both curves give the C2 continuity that a natural cubic 
spline gives. The slight curvature in the glass and the stem. My guess 
would be SOR is a natural cubic spline. I.i.r.c. ABX had the SOR spline 
implemented as a spline in one of patched versions. SuperPov, UeberPov?

ingo

[ingo] Re: SOR documentation [97 days 5 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Sat, 9 May 2026 08:33:20 GMT

On 2026-05-09 09:36, ingo wrote:
> On 2026-05-08 21:45, Bald Eagle wrote:

in addition, another interesting one to convert is a "bezier style" 
version of the CatmullRom spline. The handles work just like in bezier. 
The reason I thought of this is you mentioning the "natural cubic" 
https://sites.millersville.edu/rbuchanan/math375/CubicSpline.pdf

This is comparable to Akime curves. A system is set up to define a the 
tangents at the endpoints (tridiagonal) of a curve segment. Using these 
and the Hermite curve matrix, the whole thing is resolved.

You can convert any Hermite slopes based curve (natural cubic, monotone, 
Akima, etc.) to Catmull-Rom "Bezier-style" 4-point form.

I have, excusez le mot, a half arsed attempt at code for that in Nim. 
Would take a lot of time to get it going and converted to an include file.

ingo

[ingo] Re: SOR documentation [97 days 6 hours and 48 minutes ago]

Sat, 9 May 2026 07:36:17 GMT

On 2026-05-08 21:45, Bald Eagle wrote:

> The "cubic_spline" type is a Catmull-Rom spline.
> So a cubic spline sphere sweep ought to be able to be overlaid on a sor rendered
> with an orthographic camera.
> 

I did that with my curve.inc from https://ingoogni.nl/download/ (curve.zip)

---%<------%<------%<---
//cmd: +w400 +h400 +am2 +a0.01

#version 3.7;

#include "curve.inc"

#global_settings{ assumed_gamma 1.0 }
#default{ finish{ ambient 0.1 diffuse 0.9 emission 0}}

sor {
   8,
   <0.0,  -0.5>,
   <3.0,   0.0>,
   <1.0,   0.2>,
   <0.5,   0.4>,
   <0.5,   4.0>,
   <1.0,   5.0>,
   <3.0,  10.0>,
   <4.0,  11.0>
   open
   pigment {rgb 1}
   sturm
}

#declare vC = array[8]{
   <0.0,  -0.5, 0.0>,
   <3.0,   0.0, 0.0>,
   <1.0,   0.2, 0.0>,
   <0.5,   0.4, 0.0>,
   <0.5,   4.0, 0.0>,
   <1.0,   5.0, 0.0>,
   <3.0,  10.0, 0.0>,
   <4.0,  11.0, 0.0>
};

#declare Test = CIcatmull(vC);
#for(T, 0, 1, 0.0015)
   sphere{CIget(Test, T), 0.05 pigment{rgb <1,0,0>} translate <0.1,0,0>}
#end

camera {
   orthographic angle 60
   location  <0, 5, -12>
   right     x*image_width/image_height
   look_at   <0, 5, 0.0>
}

light_source{<0, 10,-3000> color rgb 1}
---%<------%<------%<---

Note, the red line of the CatmullRom is slightly translated to the 
right. I does not match exactly. The CatmullRom is a case of Cardinal 
spline where one can set the tension. I have it implemented and a bunch 
of other types in Nim. I'll try to get them in POV-Ray and test against 
the SORspline.

ingo

[Bald Eagle] Re: SOR documentation [97 days 18 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Fri, 8 May 2026 19:50:00 GMT

Just putting this here for general reference:

The "cubic_spline" type is a Catmull-Rom spline.
So a cubic spline sphere sweep ought to be able to be overlaid on a sor rendered
with an orthographic camera.

Now, there were some old posts by Rune in 2002 where it seems that different
types of spline were given the same name, and which spline you actually got,
depended on which shape you used - prism, spline, sphere sweep, etc.
I don't know if that's still the case.
(It looks like Mark Wagner coded a lot of the spline types.)

This would be something that we need to investigate and document, prior to
delving in a fixing/renaming/aliasing the spline types.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

https://news.povray.org/pan.2002.09.24.02.24.44.755861.210%40gte.net

From: Mark Wagner
Subject: Re: splines
Date: 23 Sep 2002 22:25:37
Message: <pan### [at] gtenet>

On Sun, 22 Sep 2002 19:20:02 -0400, Chris Colefax quoth:

> Fidel viegas <fid### [at] artrecognitioncouk> wrote:
>> Is there any macro that supports hermite curves? Does povray support
> hermite
>> curves? And what are they really good for? Isn't cubic splines enough
>> to create any kind of smooth camera or object animation?
>
> The term "cubic" refers to the degree of the equations used to calculate
> the spline path.  All the cubic splines (Bezier, Catmull-Rom, Hermite,
> Kochanek-Bartels) are just different ways of specifying the inputs for
> the spline, and it's not too difficult to perform conversions from one
> to another.

There's also a "natural cubic spline" type that can't easily be converted
to/from.  POV-Ray 3.5's "natural_spline" is a natural cubic spline.  The
"cubic_spline" type is a Catmull-Rom spline.

--
Mark

[Cossack ] Re: Free IT tools [99 days 18 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Wed, 6 May 2026 19:35:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Someone just posted this list - thought I'd share.
> There's some project management stuff in there too.  :)
>
> 1. ChatGPT Plus ($20/month)
> Replaced with: Claude free + ChatGPT free + Perplexity. Stack all three. You get
> a stronger AI workflow than any single $20 plan.
> Site → https://claude.ai
>
> 2. Adobe Photoshop ($23/month)
> Replaced with: Photopea. A full Photoshop in your browser. Opens PSD files. Has
> ads, but $5/month removes them or just ignore them.
> Site → https://photopea.com
>
> 3. Adobe Premiere Pro ($23/month)
> Replaced with: DaVinci Resolve. The free version edited Dune and Oppenheimer.
> Hollywood-grade for $0.
> Site → https://blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve
>
> 4. Notion paid plan ($10/month)
> Replaced with: AppFlowy. A Notion alternative where your data lives on your
> machine. Local-first. Open source.
> Site → https://appflowy.io
>
> 5. Notion AI / Roam Research ($16/month)
> Replaced with: Obsidian. Unlimited notes. Free for personal AND business use as
> of 2026. Local files you own forever.
> Site → https://obsidian.md
>
> 6. Calendly ($15/month)
> Replaced with: Cal. com. More features than Calendly. White-label. Free for
> individuals.
> Site → https://cal.com
>
> 7. Zapier ($30/month)
> Replaced with: n8n. 400+ integrations, native AI nodes, unlimited workflows when
> self-hosted on a $5 server.
> Site → https://n8n.io
>
> 8. Midjourney ($30/month)
> Replaced with: Fooocus. Three clicks from download to Midjourney-quality images
> on your own laptop.
> Site → https://github.com/lllyasviel/Fooocus
>
> 9. ElevenLabs ($22/month)
> Replaced with: ElevenLabs free tier. 10,000 characters per month is enough for a
> podcast intro, narration, and short voiceovers. Most people never need to
> upgrade.
> Site → https://elevenlabs.io
>
> 10. Cursor Pro ($20/month)
> Replaced with: Cline + Claude free. An AI coding agent that lives in VS Code,
> with your own API key or free models.
> Site → https://github.com/cline/cline

https://mebiusbox.github.io/contents/EffectTextureMaker/ and
https://www.smart-page.net/smartnormal/ not bad for 3d

[ingo] Re: a little ray tracer [100 days 1 hour and 30 minutes ago]

Wed, 6 May 2026 12:55:02 GMT

On 2026-05-06 14:07, Bald Eagle wrote:
> So much so, that governments here even steal our wages to manufacture and
> install metal signs that read "DEAD END". ;)

Is the situation that dire out there at the moment? :(

I used to do product development in the past. Keeping an "engineers 
diary" was extremely valuable.

ingo

[Bald Eagle] Re: a little ray tracer [100 days 2 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Wed, 6 May 2026 12:10:00 GMT

ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> Might be an awful
> lot of work to find yet another dead end street, but we can hope that
> there is a good pub at the end of it then.

Having worked on many projects at many different levels, it is just as important
to know and document what DID NOT work.  (And what was learned along the way)

So much so, that governments here even steal our wages to manufacture and
install metal signs that read "DEAD END". ;)

- BW

[ingo] Re: a little ray tracer [100 days 5 hours and 19 minutes ago]

Wed, 6 May 2026 09:05:57 GMT

On 2026-05-05 23:18, jr wrote:
> "nagging feeling"

Hah, I have a 2000 lines "design" document, there's quite a few lines in 
it that evoke that feeling, so it's in constant flux. Might be an awful 
lot of work to find yet another dead end street, but we can hope that 
there is a good pub at the end of it then.

ingo

[ingo] Re: a little ray tracer [100 days 5 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Wed, 6 May 2026 08:59:40 GMT

On 2026-05-06 02:45, Mr wrote:
> I suddenly feel like I was off topic as, [...]

No problem.

> [...] what would the syntax invoking them look like?
> 

Currently it's not all very well organized. For example in scene.nim 
there are mixed reposibilities. The whole intersection / traversal logic 
there should go to the raytracer file. Also the loop in main should go 
there.

The ppm generation is only "instant gratification" the database will be 
the result and it will contain HDR data. An image could be extracted 
with something that does:

proc exportPPM*(db: DbConn, frame: int, filename: string) =
   let rows = db.allRows(sql"""
     SELECT pixel_x, pixel_y,
            tonemap_reinhard(sum(rgb_r)) AS r,
            tonemap_reinhard(sum(rgb_g)) AS g,
            tonemap_reinhard(sum(rgb_b)) AS b
     FROM (
       SELECT pixel_x, pixel_y,
              spectral_to_rgb(contribution, wavelength) AS (r,g,b)
       FROM final_pixel_values
       WHERE frame = ?
     ) GROUP BY pixel_x, pixel_y
   """, frame)

   writePPM(filename, rows, width, height)

this is currently the whole scene description:

----
var sc = initScene()

# Materials
let matFloor = sc.addMaterial(Material(colour: vec3(0.8f, 0.8f, 0.8f)))
let matSphere = sc.addMaterial(Material(colour: vec3(0.8f, 0.2f, 0.2f)))
let matBox = sc.addMaterial(Material(colour: vec3(0.2f, 0.6f, 0.2f)))

# Shapes
discard sc.addShape(plane(vec3(0f, 1f, 0f), -1f, matFloor))
discard sc.addShape(sphere(vec3(0f, 0f, -3f), 1f, matSphere))
discard sc.addShape(box(vec3(-2f, -1f, -4f), vec3(-0.5f, 0.5f, -2f), 
matBox))

initPerspectiveCamera(
   relays = relays,
   pos = vec3(0f, 1f, 2f),
   lookAt = vec3(0f, 0f, -3f),
   up = vec3(0f, 1f, 0f),
   fovDeg = 60f,
   width = Width,
   height = Height
)

initRaytracerRenderer(relays, sc)

addPointLight(relays, vec3(5f, 8f, 2f),  vec3(1f, 1f, 1f),       100f)
addPointLight(relays, vec3(-3f, 4f, 0f), vec3(0.4f, 0.6f, 1f),    40f)

initColourMaterial(relays, sc)
initBlueBackground(relays)

----

I do not like that!

initScene() annoyed me. But then, one can put multiple scene in one file 
and render them in orther. Scene2 can the re-use, abuse, data from 
scene1. (Contrived crazy example, Scene One can be an animation of a 
ball bouncing against a wall many times, denting it a bit and leaving 
some colour. Train a little neural net with it. Scene Two uses the net 
for texture and displacement mapping generation.)

Currently an order in the scene is required. Not nice, maybe things can 
be ordered after a "parsing" step.

Initializing the relays can be "hidden", be done lazy. When adding a 
light source check whether a render relay is initialized if not do it.

Also shapes and materials do not look nice, I just chose the easy way to 
get the whole ting going. And, certainly there is a lot I've not thought 
about yet.

ingo

[Mr] Re: a little ray tracer [100 days 13 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Wed, 6 May 2026 00:50:00 GMT

I suddenly feel like I was off topic as, seeing no attachment and reading too
fast missed the line with repo link so I did not realize there was something to
try out already sorry! but is it actually POV-Ray

or else, might the discussion have been posted into a more explicit category
such as pov4.discussion.general?

The concept of nim sounds good to me, but seeing your repo reads more obscure to
me than some pov code... Sorry to be thick at this late hour, so is it elements
of a new renderer itself? if so, what would the syntax invoking them look like?

[Tor Olav Kristensen] Re: Dominoes [100 days 16 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Tue, 5 May 2026 22:00:00 GMT

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> >  I was wondering how you place the dominoes. I use a spline for placement. I
> > have my dominoes placed 2 pov units apart. That because I don't use true physics
> > to move the dominoes.
>
> Archimedean spiral calculation is used to create the control points [1]:
>
>   [... line 47]:
>   local angle = (i - 1) * 0.09
>   local radius = 5 + angle * 0.95
>   cp = {
>     x = math.cos(angle) * radius,
>     y = y_pos,
>     z = math.sin(angle) * radius,
>   }
>   [...]
>
> The control points are then fed to the Catmull-Rom spline function [2] with the
> tension parameter set to 0.5.
>
> >  Noticed that your dominoes have different spacing, they got tighter toward the
> > center.
>
> I would like to have equal spacing between the dominoes, but I do not know how
> to calculate that, do you have an idea?
> ...

Below is an example in POV-Ray SDL that places dominoes at a fixed
distance from each other along an Archimedean spiral (without using
splines).

A Newton-Raphson solver macro is used to find the placement points
analytically for high precision.

The dominoes are also oriented by a Frenet-Serret frame so that they
always face the same side forward along the spiral.

--
Tor Olav
http://subcube.com
https://github.com/t-o-k


// ===== 1 ======= 2 ======= 3 ======= 4 ======= 5 ======= 6 ======= 7

#version 3.7;

global_settings {
    assumed_gamma 1
    ambient_light color rgb 0.2*<1, 1, 1>
}

#include "colors.inc"

#declare tau = 2*pi;

// ===== 1 ======= 2 ======= 3 ======= 4 ======= 5 ======= 6 ======= 7

// Newton-Raphson macro to find the root of a function.
// Used in this example to find the angle (Theta) that
// corresponds to a given arc length.

#macro NewtonRaphson(Fn, DerFn, EstimatedRoot, Tolerance, MaxIter)

    #local Nil = 1e-12;
    #local EstRoot = EstimatedRoot;
    #if (Tolerance <= 0)
        #local Tolerance = 1e-6;
    #end // if
    #local I = 0;
    #local Continue = true;
    #while (Continue)
        #local DerVal = DerFn(EstRoot);
        #local UseableTangent = (Nil < abs(DerVal));
        #if (UseableTangent)
            #local CloserRoot = EstRoot - Fn(EstRoot)/DerVal;
            #local Delta = abs(CloserRoot - EstRoot);
            #local EstRoot = CloserRoot;
            #local I = I + 1;
            #local Continue = ((Tolerance < Delta) & (I < MaxIter));
        #else
            #local Continue = false;
        #end // if
    #end // while

    EstRoot

#end // macro NewtonRaphson

// ===== 1 ======= 2 ======= 3 ======= 4 ======= 5 ======= 6 ======= 7

// Archimedes spiral (radius = g * th)

// _g: Growth rate (how fast the spiral spreads outward).
//     The radius increases by _g*tau mm per full revolution.
// _th: Rotation angle in radians.

// Position functions (calculates x and z from polar coordinates)
// <x, 0, z> are the cartesian coordinates for a point on the
// spiral at angle _th.
#declare FnX = function(_g, _th) { _g*_th*cos(_th) };
#declare FnZ = function(_g, _th) { _g*_th*sin(_th) };

// First derivatives of the functions (velocity),
// used to determine the tangent vector/direction of the curve.
#declare DerFnX = function(_g, _th) { _g*(cos(_th) - _th*sin(_th)) };
#declare DerFnZ = function(_g, _th) { _g*(sin(_th) + _th*cos(_th)) };


/*
Arc length function: Calculates the distance traveled along the spiral.
_g: Growth rate (how fast the spiral spreads outward).
_th: Final angle in radians (the angle the spiral has passed through).
*/

/*
#declare ArcLengthFn =
    function(_g, _th) {
        _g/2*(
            _th*sqrt(1 + pow(_th, 2)) +
            ln(_th + sqrt(1 + pow(_th, 2)))
        )
    }
;
#declare Asinh(_th) =
    function(_th) {
        ln(_th + sqrt(1 + pow(_th, 2)))
    }
;
*/

// Calculates the total distance traveled along the spiral curve,
// from the center to point the final angle.
#declare ArcLengthFn =
    function(_g, _th) {
        _g/2*(_th*sqrt(1 + pow(_th, 2)) + asinh(_th))
    }
;

// The first derivative of the arc length function:
#declare DerArcLengthFn =
    function(_g, _th) {
        _g*sqrt(1 + pow(_th, 2))
    }
;

// ===== 1 ======= 2 ======= 3 ======= 4 ======= 5 ======= 6 ======= 7

// Domino piece geometry (L x W x T: 48mm x 24mm x 10mm)
// Oriented so it stands on the xz plane, growing in y.
#declare DominoPiece =
    union {
        // Centered at origin
        box {
            -<12, 24, 5>, +<12, 24, 5>
            pigment { color White }
        }
        // Direction markers for debugging the matrix orientation:
        cylinder {
            +12*x, +16*x, 2  // Local +x (Normal)
            pigment { color Red }
        }
        cylinder {
            +24*y, +28*y, 2  // Local +y (Binormal)
            pigment { color Green }
        }
        cylinder {
            +5*z,  +9*z, 2  // Local +z (Tangent)
            pigment { color Blue }
        }
        // Move bottom of piece to y = 0
        translate +24*y
    }


#declare NoOfPoints = 300;  // Also the number of dominoes.

#declare GrowthRate = 60/tau;  // mm/radian
// The radial distance between centerlines of successive
// windings (the pitch) will be 60mm.

// Distance between centers of dominoes along the spiral path.
#declare StepLength = 25;  // mm


// Calculate angles (Thetas) for each domino using numerical inversion.

#debug "\n"
#declare Thetas = array[NoOfPoints];
#declare Thetas[0] = 0;
#for (I, 1, NoOfPoints - 1)
    #declare TargetLength = I*StepLength;
    #declare Thetas[I] =
        NewtonRaphson(
            function(_th) {
                ArcLengthFn(GrowthRate, _th) - TargetLength
            },
            function(_th) {
                DerArcLengthFn(GrowthRate, _th)
            },
            Thetas[I-1],  // Use previous angle as start estimate
            1e-6,
            10
        )
    ;
    #declare AchievedLength = ArcLengthFn(GrowthRate, Thetas[I]);
    #debug str(AchievedLength - TargetLength, 0, 14)
    #debug "\n"
#end // for
#debug "\n"


// Define specific instances of the functions
// for the chosen growth rate

#declare X_Fn = function(_th) { FnX(GrowthRate, _th) };
#declare Z_Fn = function(_th) { FnZ(GrowthRate, _th) };

#declare DerX_Fn = function(_th) { DerFnX(GrowthRate, _th) };
#declare DerZ_Fn = function(_th) { DerFnZ(GrowthRate, _th) };

/*
pP: Position on spiral
vT: Tangent vector (Forward direction)
vB: Binormal vector (Up direction)
vN: Normal vector (Side direction, perpendicular to curve)
*/

// Render the dominoes
union {
    #declare vB = vnormalize(<0, 1, 0>);  // = <0, 1, 0>
    // Start at 1 to skip the domino piece in the center
    #for (I, 1, NoOfPoints - 1)
        #declare Th = Thetas[I];
        #declare pP = <X_Fn(Th), 0, Z_Fn(Th)>;
        #declare vT = vnormalize(<DerX_Fn(Th), 0, DerZ_Fn(Th)>);
        #declare vN = vcross(vB, vT);
        object {
            DominoPiece
            matrix <
                vN.x, vN.y, vN.z, // Maps local x to Side
                vB.x, vB.y, vB.z, // Maps local y to Up
                vT.x, vT.y, vT.z, // Maps local z to Forward
                pP.x, pP.y, pP.z  // Translates to spiral position
            >
        }
    #end // for
}

// ===== 1 ======= 2 ======= 3 ======= 4 ======= 5 ======= 6 ======= 7

sky_sphere { pigment { color Gray } }

// A checkered floor plane to provide visual context and shadows
plane {
    y, 0  // The ground plane at y = 0
    pigment {
        checker
        color 0.05*White  // Dark squares
        color 0.60*White  // Light squares
        scale 60 // Each square matches the pitch of the spiral (60mm)
    }
}

light_source {
    100*<6, 14, 3>
    color White
}

#declare AspectRatio = image_width/image_height;

camera {
 orthographic
    location +1000*y
 right +900*AspectRatio*x
 up +900*z
    direction -y
}

/*
camera {
    location 120*<+1, +3, -5>
    look_at 100*< 0, -1,  0>
}
*/

// ===== 1 ======= 2 ======= 3 ======= 4 ======= 5 ======= 6 ======= 7

[jr] Re: a little ray tracer [100 days 17 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Tue, 5 May 2026 21:20:00 GMT

hi,

ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> On 2026-05-04 21:09, jr wrote:
>  > what happened to "variety is the spice of life" ?! ...
> but but, but the raytracer's job is to populate the database. The trace
> data is the render. Everything else is SQL. Image is a query, depthmap
> is a query, normalmap is a query ...
> -- depth map as a query, not a render pass
> SELECT
>    pixel_x,
>    pixel_y,
>    MIN(t) AS depth  -- closest hit along each ray
> FROM bounces
> WHERE frame = 42
> GROUP BY pixel_x, pixel_y

you sure know how "to take the wind out of my sails" </grin>.  that really is an
interesting perspective.  heavy..

> to take it to the extreme, ...

I don't have the required background(s) but am still left with a "nagging
feeling".  a fully spec'd "application binary interface", as you've alluded to
with the dynamic-link libraries, ought to be enough.  (unless I misunderstood ?)

regards, jr.

[ingo] Re: a little ray tracer [100 days 23 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Tue, 5 May 2026 14:47:31 GMT

On 2026-05-05 15:02, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Perhaps you could take a bit of time to explain how the parser gets handled.

When using Nim, as I do there are two and two halve options.

- Just use Nim as I have done now (could be cleaner), no need to write a 
parser as we use Nim's parser & compiler.

- A halve option adds a Domain Specific Language on top. That is created 
using Nim's macro system (AST rewriting at compile time). It is still 
pure Nim and the DSL could be done for scene description while using 
usual Nim code for the rest functions etc. Look at it as a syntax sugar 
layer:

scene:
   camera perspective:
     pos    = vec3(0, 1, 2)
     lookAt = vec3(0, 0, -3)
     fov    = 60

   sphere:
     center   = vec3(0, 0, -3)
     radius   = 1.0
     material = red

   pointLight:
     pos       = vec3(5, 8, 2)
     intensity = 100

Squiggels can probably be added to make it look more POV-Ray.

- A halve option would be to use Nim's scripting language. That would 
require no compilation but it does not (yet?) fully / seamlessly 
integrate with the compiled version. But it still looks and feels the 
same as Nim

- An option would be to write a full scene parser. I have not arrived at 
that stage, but feel it as "limiting".

Nim3 is in the making, a part of it is a Lisp like language that could 
bridge a parser and the Nim compiler. If I understand it all correctly.

https://github.com/nim-lang/nifspec/blob/master/README.md
https://github.com/nim-lang/nifspec/blob/master/doc/nif-spec.md

A front end parses and converts "POV-Ray SDL" and outputs:
(.nif27)
(.lang "raytracer")
(stmts
   (camera@2,1 (vec3 0.0 1.0 2.0) (vec3 0.0 0.0 -3.0) 60.0)
   (sphere@3,1 (vec3 0.0 0.0 -3.0) 1.0 (material :red.0.materials))
)
Nim parses it, compiles and renders.

But, what becomes clear in the discussion so far, we are trying to solve 
different problems.

ingo

[Bald Eagle] Re: a little ray tracer [101 days 1 hour and 20 minutes ago]

Tue, 5 May 2026 13:05:00 GMT

ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> .... Everything else is SQL. Image is a query, depthmap
> is a query, normalmap is a query ...

Perhaps you could take a bit of time to explain how the parser gets handled.

clipka's major concern was fixing/refactoring the parser.
I know that we have a special, hand-written parser that's not like most
languages.

If I understand all of it correctly, we have

A raw tokenizer
A tokenizer
A scanner
A parser
and then handling of objects, symbol tables, functions, textures, etc.

I don't really understand all the grammar, lexemes, syntax vs semantics, symbol
tables, etc. that go into building a language, and I think it would help if we
dedicated a few threads to discussing these aspects of the source, so that we
can better understand what we HAVE, and plan out a path to where we want/need to
be.

Writing out some code that just goes through the motions but doesn't implement
anything would give people an idea about the roadmap that constitutes how the
raytracer works overall, and I think a high-level pseudocode version would be a
great way to help organize all of the various parts.

We have redundant code, things that are intertwined in the parser that ought not
be there, and various algorithms that get applied to different shapes as part of
the bounding (bsp, cylinder bounding, AABB, sphere bounding).

If we rearranged the code at a high level, and made extensive comments about WHY
the parts of the code ought be in the places we're putting them, then that would
be a big step forward in filling in the place-holder stuff with actual code.

We already have the code base, so we can just copy-paste a lot of what already
exists, and then it would be a matter of making all of the various parts work
together.  We can make it modular, add much-needed comments and references,
standardize some of the math and constants used (epsilons), etc.

This would also be a good class on writing patches and compiling source code, so
that more people can understand how to make POV-Ray vX.Y.Z

- BW

[ingo] Re: a little ray tracer [101 days 2 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Tue, 5 May 2026 12:20:26 GMT

On 2026-05-04 21:09, jr wrote:

 > what happened to "variety is the spice of life" ?!  different 
languages (both
 > computer and human) all have their strengths and weaknesses, and I 
see nothing
 > "wrong" with "multi-language" projects.
 >

but but, but the raytracer's job is to populate the database. The trace 
data is the render. Everything else is SQL. Image is a query, depthmap 
is a query, normalmap is a query ...

-- depth map as a query, not a render pass
SELECT
   pixel_x,
   pixel_y,
   MIN(t) AS depth  -- closest hit along each ray
FROM bounces
WHERE frame = 42
GROUP BY pixel_x, pixel_y

to take it to the extreme, the render relay should probably be the only 
thing that actually traces rays. Everything else â€” depth, normals, 
object IDs, albedo â€” is a material relay or a post-process query.

ingo

[koppi] Re: Cluster CPU monitoring tool [101 days 4 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Tue, 5 May 2026 09:40:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Are you aware of Dick Balaska's work:
>
> http://buckosoft.com/bsac/

Hi Bald, I wasn't familiar with "bsac" before. I have experience with PVMPOV,
mpipov, and httpov. I've been using SLURM (Simple Linux Utility for Resource
Management) for about 10 years; a workload manager for HPC clusters in
conjunction with POV-Ray. I published my SLURM/POV-Ray script files on GitHub
two weeks ago:

Distributed ray-tracing animation rendering using SLURM work-stealing on a
compute cluster: https://github.com/bullet-physics-playground/povray-slurm

SLURM works well for me because it has a decent job scheduler that works well
for my needs. Furthermore, at my current workplace (at a biochemistry
engineering company), we also have the option of running POV-Ray on a large
HPC cluster with 3000 compute nodes.

Kind regards,
koppi

[Dave Blandston] Re: Centipede Arcade Game Control Panel Artwork [101 days 8 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Tue, 5 May 2026 05:50:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> I had to use [CTRL][ALT][DEL] to pull up the tsk manager and kill the process.

Oh my goodness thanks for letting me know that. That sort of thing is so
befuddling! The fact that debugging a POV-Ray scene isn't usually so mysterious
is one of the things that I love most about it. In the case of the Centipede
game, I'm using the standard keyboard and mouse functions so the fact that
they're not working is quite perplexing. One thing I did do is copy POV-Ray's
"Render Priority" feature. The program puts itself into HIGH_PRIORITY_CLASS (I'm
hoping that helps guarantee smoother animation) but that *shouldn't* cause
keyboard and mouse issues. Using the highest priority level
"REALTIME_PRIORITY_CLASS" is known to cause system instability but I'm using the
level below that which is supposed to be safe. But we all know how goofy Windows
is so maybe that could be an issue. I'll drop it down to
"ABOVE_NORMAL_PRIORITY_CLASS" after the introduction screen is done scrolling
and hope that solves the problem. Sorry for the inconvenience Sir, but I
certainly appreciate the feedback.

Kind regards,
Dave Blandston

[Bald Eagle] Re: Cluster CPU monitoring tool [101 days 16 hours ago]

Mon, 4 May 2026 22:25:00 GMT

Are you aware of Dick Balaska's work:

BuckoSoft Animation Controller (bsac) is a client/server renderfarm distribution
system. The bsac manages many networked computers running the POV-Ray program to
distribute work and collect frames of an animation.

http://buckosoft.com/bsac/

- BW

[koppi] Re: Cluster CPU monitoring tool [101 days 17 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Mon, 4 May 2026 21:15:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> fwiw, I know it's early days etc, but you do use GNU and the Linux distributions
> ... vary.  suggest the following in the Makefile:
> CFLAGS += $(shell pkg-config --flags ncursesw)
> LDFLAGS = $(shell pkg-config --libs ncursesw)
>

jr, thank's for the feedback. I just updated the GNUmakefile:

https://github.com/koppi/ccm/commit/b2dbc57eca62e3c767ef099a017b8eb0105c6af1

regards, koppi

[Bald Eagle] Free IT tools [101 days 17 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Mon, 4 May 2026 21:05:00 GMT

Someone just posted this list - thought I'd share.
There's some project management stuff in there too.  :)

1. ChatGPT Plus ($20/month)
Replaced with: Claude free + ChatGPT free + Perplexity. Stack all three. You get
a stronger AI workflow than any single $20 plan.
Site → https://claude.ai

2. Adobe Photoshop ($23/month)
Replaced with: Photopea. A full Photoshop in your browser. Opens PSD files. Has
ads, but $5/month removes them or just ignore them.
Site → https://photopea.com

3. Adobe Premiere Pro ($23/month)
Replaced with: DaVinci Resolve. The free version edited Dune and Oppenheimer.
Hollywood-grade for $0.
Site → https://blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve

4. Notion paid plan ($10/month)
Replaced with: AppFlowy. A Notion alternative where your data lives on your
machine. Local-first. Open source.
Site → https://appflowy.io

5. Notion AI / Roam Research ($16/month)
Replaced with: Obsidian. Unlimited notes. Free for personal AND business use as
of 2026. Local files you own forever.
Site → https://obsidian.md

6. Calendly ($15/month)
Replaced with: Cal. com. More features than Calendly. White-label. Free for
individuals.
Site → https://cal.com

7. Zapier ($30/month)
Replaced with: n8n. 400+ integrations, native AI nodes, unlimited workflows when
self-hosted on a $5 server.
Site → https://n8n.io

8. Midjourney ($30/month)
Replaced with: Fooocus. Three clicks from download to Midjourney-quality images
on your own laptop.
Site → https://github.com/lllyasviel/Fooocus

9. ElevenLabs ($22/month)
Replaced with: ElevenLabs free tier. 10,000 characters per month is enough for a
podcast intro, narration, and short voiceovers. Most people never need to
upgrade.
Site → https://elevenlabs.io

10. Cursor Pro ($20/month)
Replaced with: Cline + Claude free. An AI coding agent that lives in VS Code,
with your own API key or free models.
Site → https://github.com/cline/cline

[jr] Re: Cluster CPU monitoring tool [101 days 19 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Mon, 4 May 2026 19:15:00 GMT

hi,

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I updated the ccm source code to also monitor memory usage as well as CPU
> temperature.

thanks, downloaded, "todo" in the coming days.

fwiw, I know it's early days etc, but you do use GNU and the Linux distributions
... vary.  suggest the following in the Makefile:
CFLAGS += $(shell pkg-config --flags ncursesw)
LDFLAGS = $(shell pkg-config --libs ncursesw)

regards, jr.

[jr] Re: a little ray tracer [101 days 19 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Mon, 4 May 2026 19:10:00 GMT

hi,

ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> Why is POV-Ray (development) in decline? Lack of developers? Realy?

I like Mr's take (for which thanks) -- "...train is steadily moving forwards..."


> Look at the wealth of include files.
> What if we can compile an include file, use it as a dll? What if after
> some time it gets integrated in the core?
> ...
> A glimpse of the goal:
>
> Scene SDL
> │
> ├--> Raytracer backend       (analytical intersection, BVH/R-tree) ←
> reference
> |--> Path tracer backend     (physically based)
> |--> OpenGL / Vulkan backend (realtime preview, all geometry meshed)
> |--> STL / mesh backend      (3D printing, watertight meshes)
> |--> Audio backend           (acoustic simulation)

ideally, yes.  however

> ... English bridges the gap between my Dutch and your French. What
> if there is no gap at all, in coding language? Front end, back end
> middle ware all in the same language. Coders and users speak the same
> language, they all "code". That removes "friction". That can enhance the
> product.

what happened to "variety is the spice of life" ?!  different languages (both
computer and human) all have their strengths and weaknesses, and I see nothing
"wrong" with "multi-language" projects.



@Bald Eagle.
> ...the sor {} object...

yes, "unfinished business", write.


regards, jr.

[ingo] Re: a little ray tracer [101 days 20 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Mon, 4 May 2026 17:36:13 GMT

On 2026-05-04 15:04, Bald Eagle wrote:
> So I'll say it again:   1 fully working code example for every keyword.

One of the reasons I wrote the stuff in the portfolio when I worked on 
the documentation. Currently only for patterns, textures, shapes and 
objects but it can be extended to all kinds of keywords.  All kind 
radiosity setting in a Cornell box...

ingo

[koppi] Re: Cluster CPU monitoring tool [101 days 20 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Mon, 4 May 2026 17:35:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> very interesting idea, "bookmarked", thank you.

I updated the ccm source code to also monitor memory usage as well as CPU
temperature.

Kind regards,
koppi

[Bald Eagle] Re: Centipede Arcade Game Control Panel Artwork [102 days and 50 minutes ago]

Mon, 4 May 2026 13:35:00 GMT

I downloaded the .exe and ran it on my Lenovo Yoga laptop.
I got the introductory screen (which looks amazing)
but was unable to get any of the controls to work.

- the right mouse button starts the game,
[SPACE] puts it in slow-motion mode,
"." and ", "adjust slow-motion speed,
"l" skips ahead to the next level,
and [ESC] exits.

None of those worked for me.

I had to use [CTRL][ALT][DEL] to pull up the tsk manager and kill the process.

- BW

[Bald Eagle] Re: a little ray tracer [102 days 1 hour and 20 minutes ago]

Mon, 4 May 2026 13:05:00 GMT

ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:

jr and I have had extensive discussions and brainstorming / planning sessions
where we have striven to address how we should go about
fixing/rewriting/developing POV-Ray and how to best manage an open-source
project.

I like to use the analogy of actually building something.
It may start with an idea, then a sketch, then an analysis of the details:
requirements, parameters, goals, features, allowing modification/extension, etc.
Detailed drawings, Geometric Dimensioning and Tolerancing, and perspective
drawings to get a preview of what it will look like when finished.

As folks have seen, I have tried to make lists of "things" in POV-Ray that I'd
like to implemented, improved, or fixed.

I've also made some doodles in SDL to sketch out what I'd like to see formally
implemented in source code.

With things like sor {}, I've gone through the source and done the research and
detective work necessary to understand what the goals, are, how they are
currently implemented, and meticulously checked all of the steps that make it
work, and compared that to expected or desired outputs.

Then I offered suggested source code edits, and critiqued the current state of
not only the sor {} object, but the related lathe, the spline code, the root
solver(s), and the bounding.

> There is a, almost natural, discrepancy between developers and users of
> a program. They have different interests, goals. Nothing wrong with
> that.

Yes, but there does need to be communication and meaningful feedback for
anything productive and substantive to happen.

Developers create the things that the users implement.
Users dream up applications of what the developers create.

There's a behind-the-scenes anecdote regarding the film's set design. When
reviewing script scenes depicting Hell, Director Adrian Lyne asked writer Bruce
Joel Rubin, "How many carpenters do I need to build the abyss?"
That really struck home to the writer the immense practical construction
required for the film’s surreal visuals - which are easy to convey in a book,
but might take a herculean effort to create on a set.

"Easier said than done."

Also consider the "bullet time" scene from The Matrix.  I think it took a year
and a half and a huge pile of equipment and money just to implement an effect
for only a few seconds of a scene in an otherwise long film.

> Coders and users speak the same
> language, they all "code". That removes "friction". That can enhance the
> product.

> I'm in no way suggesting that in such a case users can suddenly be core
> POV-Ray developers. Knowing the moves of chess pieces don't make me a
> chess player.

Yes, this is why I have strongly suggested that users pick a feature and try to
implement it in SDL. (or any other language)
It serves to increase understanding of what actually goes into making a shape,
or solving some equation, and properly visualizing it on the screen.

It also helps (self)document things, incidentally discover limitations, bugs,
and other unknowns, and usually the user winds up providing the results of their
research and discoveries in the forum.

That helps everyone in the long run.

Documentation is a giant pain in the ass.
However, formal documentation need not be a stumbling block for releasing a new
version.
No one needs a 4-paragraph explanation about how to use a volume control.  Be it
a rocker-style button with +/- marking, a knob to rotate that has a wedge shaped
glyph, or a slider that has a bar-graph indicator.
Even if the label is somewhat cryptic and mysterious, you just move the control
and observe the change.  Understanding is almost instantaneous.

If we have working code that a user can implement in seconds, then they can just
fiddle with the controls to intuitively understand what might takes pages of
written documentation to convey.  Not to mention all of the renders and diagrams
that might be necessary to supplement the text.

So I'll say it again:   1 fully working code example for every keyword.

Once the code gets written, it's a lot easier to understand what may need to be
written about it, and the written part can always lag behind the development
(presuming that comments are provided in the cde, as they should be).

- BE

[ingo] Re: a little ray tracer [102 days 5 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Mon, 4 May 2026 09:21:09 GMT

On 2026-05-04 10:04, Mr wrote:
> 
> Initiatives, brainstorming are always good ! And POV development is indeed not
> at all in decline but I wouldn't look at macros to advocate that (because core
> developers know best the real gap between lowest levels and the SDL, I would
> rather look at master codebase pull requests:[...]
 >

There is a, almost natural, discrepancy between developers and users of 
a program. They have different interests, goals. Nothing wrong with 
that. They speak different languages (in life and in code (in POV-Ray's 
case)). English bridges the gap between my Dutch and your French. What 
if there is no gap at all, in coding language? Front end, back end 
middle ware all in the same language. Coders and users speak the same 
language, they all "code". That removes "friction". That can enhance the 
product.

I'm in no way suggesting that in such a case users can suddenly be core 
POV-Ray developers. Knowing the moves of chess pieces don't make me a 
chess player.

Decline; It always saddens me when I mention POV-Ray within a relevant 
context that the response is, "yeah, I used that 20 years ago, is it 
still around?".

Anyway, thoughts like this made my give it a try and see wether it would 
work. As said, it is the first working version. In theory the concept is 
very extensible up to the question: is POV-Ray the plug-in to the 
modeller or is the modeller a plug-in for POV-Ray. Don't want to quote 
Goehte here, yes, boundaries should be set, but first have to be 
explored. So far, it's just a little fun project.

ingo

[Mr] Re: a little ray tracer [102 days 6 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Mon, 4 May 2026 08:05:00 GMT

ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> Why is POV-Ray (development) in decline? Lack of developers? Realy? Look
> at the wealth of include files.
>
> What if we can compile an include file, use it as a dll? What if after
> some time it gets integrated in the core?
>
> simple scene
>    -> include file      (sphere.nim imported, used directly)
>      -> plugin          (sphere.nim compiled as shared lib, loaded at
> runtime)
>        -> core feature  (merged into core)
>
> Then the author of the Nim programming languge published:
> https://nim-lang.org/araq/relays.html
> It clicked.
>
> That woud make it possible to write torus.nim as an "extension". Add
> `import torus` in a nim scene file. The parser would detect it, but does
> not know it. Looks for the file in the right place, compiles it to a dll
> and uses it
>
> `torus.nim` would contain just the torus intersection algorithm, a
> constructor and a few tidbits. In the future it will contain a proc that
> will result in a mesh of a torus and a pies of code that extends a scene
> parser with `torus`
>
> so, shapes are relays. Lights are relays, cameras and materials are.
>
> I've been discussing ratracing for quite some time with Claude, this
> brought it all together.
>
> A glimpse of the goal:
>
> Scene SDL
> │
> ├--> Raytracer backend       (analytical intersection, BVH/R-tree) ←
> reference
> |--> Path tracer backend     (physically based)
> |--> OpenGL / Vulkan backend (realtime preview, all geometry meshed)
> |--> STL / mesh backend      (3D printing, watertight meshes)
> |--> Audio backend           (acoustic simulation)
>
> Back-ends are also relays. When back-end is switched to vulcan all
> shapes will be meshified.
>
> So far very little is implemented. The little ray tracer does not
> support plug ins yet and it just has one fixed back-end. Shapes etc are
> relays.
>
> The first code I got running with the help of Claude:
> https://gist.github.com/ingoogni/c4ca054e37a79706ff9c05c75b435467
>
> You'll find SQlite references in the code. Not implemented yet, but the
> goal is to store a lot of data during tracing in a database. These data
> can be used for example for post processing the image(s). Re-colour a
> light source?
>
> ingo

Initiatives, brainstorming are always good ! And POV development is indeed not
at all in decline but I wouldn't look at macros to advocate that (because core
developers know best the real gap between lowest levels and the SDL, I would
rather look at master codebase pull requests:
And indeed flags are turning green there: Much awaited steps are being worked on
such as incrementing Visual studio version, adding more modern scalable
processors with future-proof architectures (AVX512) without throwing away
ubiquity (3.8 bsd port is available, as is a Termux package).
Even when considering only the couple of pull requests that are being closely
reviewed by the Chris Cason, main developer, and followed through by their
openers to conform to his suggested technical tweaks or legal conformity
demands. Slow train is steadily moving forwards, with a solid strategy!

POV versions have always been slow to happen, sometimes allowing branches to
appear as they did in the MegaPOV era. But since the git-hub era started, The
improvements of these branches could almost directly benefit the plain master
version of POV after thorough testing and pruning: a lot of the Uberpov features
got merged, and a lot of the POVR/YUQK fixes also did.
The currently underestimated number one bottleneck :
More time and focus should be given to documentation. because what prevented
latest 3.8 version to go out exactly as it used to, with binary installers etc.
is docs (not only draft bits and pieces, but finalizing them and all of it):
After the departure of the person who had for decades single-handedly maintained
POV documentation. And only someone who has been there long enough to be highly
trusted by the core team and the community could fill in to not lower the
currently triple A quality, with native language (US vs UK, good expressive
style...) and lots of free time to proofread, convert it to other formats, etc.

[ingo] a little ray tracer [102 days 7 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Mon, 4 May 2026 06:51:06 GMT

Why is POV-Ray (development) in decline? Lack of developers? Realy? Look 
at the wealth of include files.

What if we can compile an include file, use it as a dll? What if after 
some time it gets integrated in the core?

simple scene
   -> include file      (sphere.nim imported, used directly)
     -> plugin          (sphere.nim compiled as shared lib, loaded at 
runtime)
       -> core feature  (merged into core)

Then the author of the Nim programming languge published: 
https://nim-lang.org/araq/relays.html
It clicked.

That woud make it possible to write torus.nim as an "extension". Add 
`import torus` in a nim scene file. The parser would detect it, but does 
not know it. Looks for the file in the right place, compiles it to a dll 
and uses it

`torus.nim` would contain just the torus intersection algorithm, a 
constructor and a few tidbits. In the future it will contain a proc that 
will result in a mesh of a torus and a pies of code that extends a scene 
parser with `torus`

so, shapes are relays. Lights are relays, cameras and materials are.

I've been discussing ratracing for quite some time with Claude, this 
brought it all together.

A glimpse of the goal:

Scene SDL
â”‚
â”œ--> Raytracer backend       (analytical intersection, BVH/R-tree)
â† 
reference
|--> Path tracer backend     (physically based)
|--> OpenGL / Vulkan backend (realtime preview, all geometry meshed)
|--> STL / mesh backend      (3D printing, watertight meshes)
|--> Audio backend           (acoustic simulation)

Back-ends are also relays. When back-end is switched to vulcan all 
shapes will be meshified.

So far very little is implemented. The little ray tracer does not 
support plug ins yet and it just has one fixed back-end. Shapes etc are 
relays.

The first code I got running with the help of Claude:
https://gist.github.com/ingoogni/c4ca054e37a79706ff9c05c75b435467

You'll find SQlite references in the code. Not implemented yet, but the 
goal is to store a lot of data during tracing in a database. These data 
can be used for example for post processing the image(s). Re-colour a 
light source?

ingo

[jr] Re: Cluster CPU monitoring tool [102 days 17 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Sun, 3 May 2026 20:30:00 GMT

hi,

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I just published an ncurses based cluster CPU monitoring tool on GitHub, see:
>
>  https://github.com/koppi/ccm
>
> Think of htop with SSH access. It helps me to monitor my POV-Ray render farm
> which runs on Ubuntu 26.04 LTS.
>
> Give it a try, it is an early release. Feedback with bug reports and patches is
> welcome.

very interesting idea, "bookmarked", thank you.


regards, jr.

[koppi] Cluster CPU monitoring tool [102 days 20 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Sun, 3 May 2026 18:20:00 GMT

I just published an ncurses based cluster CPU monitoring tool on GitHub, see:

 https://github.com/koppi/ccm

Think of htop with SSH access. It helps me to monitor my POV-Ray render farm
which runs on Ubuntu 26.04 LTS.

Give it a try, it is an early release. Feedback with bug reports and patches is
welcome.

Kind regards,
koppi

[Dave Blandston] Re: Centipede Arcade Game Control Panel Artwork [103 days 18 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Sat, 2 May 2026 19:35:00 GMT

I forgot to mention one thing about the code in case anyone wants to look at it
- it's written with the QB64PE language which has a known issue of occasionally
generating false positives with virus checkers. I don't know if this particular
program will have this issue or not.

[Dave Blandston] Re: Centipede Arcade Game Control Panel Artwork [103 days 19 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Sat, 2 May 2026 19:20:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> I'm glad that SCS was able to work something out.
> They probably work better with SVG or gcode.
>
> Maybe even meshes?
>
> This ought to be a very cool project, even when it's half done.
> How is the code coming along?

Yep Send Cut Send can work with .svg files but that might only be for laser or
water jet cutting - I'm not sure. I had a metal plate made with four studs
attached so .svg probably wasn't an option but I was able to get exactly what I
wanted by using their on-line AI thing.

The code is looking good so far (in my opinion...) but I've been taking a break
from it for a while. I've gotten an intro mostly done using graphics that
generous people have shared on the internetwork (but needed a LOT of clean-up),
the sprites are mostly done, and a lot of basic infrastructure is done. There's
no sound coded yet and I'm still missing the actual sound of the mushrooms
regenerating after the player has been killed. Here's the current state of the
code: https://drive.proton.me/urls/HPK5F2HDB4#H45VQzzZxMPe if anyone is inclined
to critique it so far. There are some testing features available - the right
mouse button starts the game, [SPACE] puts it in slow-motion mode, "." and ","
adjust slow-motion speed, "l" skips ahead to the next level, and [ESC] exits.
One thing that I have to admit is strangely entertaining to me is watching the
centipede heads doing their evasive maneuvers to avoid colliding with each other
in slow motion.

After I posted the picture of the artwork I tinkered with the colors a little
and one change in the color of the blue stripes made such a dramatic and
stunning improvement that I'll post the update. The new color looks very 80s-ish
in my opinion.

Kind regards,
Dave Blandston

[Bald Eagle] Re: Centipede Arcade Game Control Panel Artwork [104 days and 40 minutes ago]

Sat, 2 May 2026 13:45:00 GMT

"Dave Blandston" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> ....And here's the artwork applied to the box, also rendered with POV-Ray of
> course.
>
> By the way, thanks to Bald Eagle for telling me about the Send Cut Send metal
> fabrication business. I had them make a metal plate with mounting studs for the
> volcano buttons and it turned out great. Unfortunately, Send Cut Send cannot
> work directly with .pov files but their clever AI thing did a very good job of
> interpreting a POV-Ray generated image so that's almost as good.

That's some pretty good work there, Dave!
Centipede was definitely one of my favorite games.

I'm glad that SCS was able to work something out.
They probably work better with SVG or gcode.

Maybe even meshes?

This ought to be a very cool project, even when it's half done.
How is the code coming along?

- BW

[Dave Blandston] Re: Centipede Arcade Game Control Panel Artwork [104 days 8 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Sat, 2 May 2026 05:35:00 GMT

....And here's the artwork applied to the box, also rendered with POV-Ray of
course.

By the way, thanks to Bald Eagle for telling me about the Send Cut Send metal
fabrication business. I had them make a metal plate with mounting studs for the
volcano buttons and it turned out great. Unfortunately, Send Cut Send cannot
work directly with .pov files but their clever AI thing did a very good job of
interpreting a POV-Ray generated image so that's almost as good.

Kind regards,
Dave Blandston

[Dave Blandston] Centipede Arcade Game Control Panel Artwork [104 days 9 hours ago]

Sat, 2 May 2026 05:25:00 GMT

Howdy,

I'm still working on building a Centipede control box so here's the artwork for
the box, completely re-done and customized for my project with POV-Ray.

Kind regards,
Dave Blandston

[Leroy] Re: playing with iridiscence [104 days 17 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 May 2026 20:55:00 GMT

"Sir" <fra### [at] jaliscoedumx> wrote:
> This bubble was created using the irid block.

Nice! 3.7 or 3.8

[Leroy] Re: Dominoes [104 days 17 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 May 2026 20:55:00 GMT

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> >  I was wondering how you place the dominoes. I use a spline for placement. I
> > have my dominoes placed 2 pov units apart. That because I don't use true physics
> > to move the dominoes.
>
> Archimedean spiral calculation is used to create the control points [1]:
>
>   [... line 47]:
>   local angle = (i - 1) * 0.09
>   local radius = 5 + angle * 0.95
>   cp = {
>     x = math.cos(angle) * radius,
>     y = y_pos,
>     z = math.sin(angle) * radius,
>   }
>   [...]
>

I basically did the same but written in POV3.7.

> The control points are then fed to the Catmull-Rom spline function [2] with the
> tension parameter set to 0.5.
>
> >  Noticed that your dominoes have different spacing, they got tighter toward the
> > center.
>
> I would like to have equal spacing between the dominoes, but I do not know how
> to calculate that, do you have an idea?
>

I'm a little late on this one, as you already have a better way than I have. I
wrote the spline starting from the outside in like normal. Then translated all
the control points so the outer point was <0,0,0>. That because these spirals
where made to be part of a bigger Field of dominoes and also be able to use a
spiral over & over & .....
 I use this spline to hunt down each domino point that was 2 pov units from the
last domino placed. I started at 0 +some very small number (.0001 I think) then
keep adding that small value until I got vlength(Oldpoint,Newpoint) =2. The only
problem was at the very end when the search point goes out of range. So I put a
Stop Gap if the search counter got to big.(.1 is to big) not very efficient.

> > Your physics engine did a good job of dropping them. I also like the
> > wiggle the engine gave to the already down dominoes.
>
> I have been experimenting with different parameters for the friction,
> restitution, linear and angular damping of the dominoes, currently using:
>
>   friction = 0.01
>   restitution = 0.01
>   damp_lin = 0.5
>   damp_ang = 0.01
>
> Kind regards,
> koppi
>
> --
> [1]
>
https://github.com/bullet-physics-playground/bpp/blob/b558bdf8e8ab23a1438d0162d40c7f0029eb3efd/demo/basic/11-domino.l
ua
>
> [2]
>
https://github.com/bullet-physics-playground/bpp/blob/b558bdf8e8ab23a1438d0162d40c7f0029eb3efd/demo/module/spline.lua
#L
> 134

Have Fun!

[koppi] Re: Dominoes [104 days 20 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 May 2026 17:30:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> That pattern is from a shader on ShaderToy by Fabrice Neyret.  It was only like
> 6 lines of code.
>
> Might help, might make it more confusing.

Foud it: https://www.shadertoy.com/view/XtSBDK
Will see, what can be done with it inside BPP ;-)

[Bald Eagle] Re: Dominoes [104 days 21 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 May 2026 17:20:00 GMT

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> Bill, do you mean I should arrange some self similar, some sort of fractal
> domino arrangement to the playground? - That's an interesting challenge!

I was only half-joking, but if you can make it happen, then YES!

That pattern is from a shader on ShaderToy by Fabrice Neyret.  It was only like
6 lines of code.

Might help, might make it more confusing.

You might also have to consider adjusting the size of the dominoes as the
spirals get longer and the spacing is limited.

- BW

[koppi] Re: Dominoes [104 days 21 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 May 2026 17:10:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Now set up all the dominoes like so:
>
>
https://news.povray.org/povray.advanced-users/attachment/%3Cweb.659879b9cca34dee1f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org%3E
/m
> athpatterns1.png

Bill, do you mean I should arrange some self similar, some sort of fractal
domino arrangement to the playground? - That's an interesting challenge!

[Bald Eagle] Re: Dominoes [104 days 22 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 May 2026 16:20:00 GMT

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> I just have fixed the domino orientation along the spiral as you have suggested,

Perfect.
Now set up all the dominoes like so:

https://news.povray.org/povray.advanced-users/attachment/%3Cweb.659879b9cca34dee1f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org%3E/m
athpatterns1.png

:D

[koppi] Re: Dominoes [104 days 22 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 May 2026 16:10:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Can you position the dominoes so that they are perpendicular to the normal of
> the spiral?  Or is the imperfectness of their placement a "feature" for more
> realism?

I just have fixed the domino orientation along the spiral as you have suggested,
for the changes see:

https://github.com/bullet-physics-playground/bpp/commit/e37fa0de7a0b94d2233428c690e93d29322b2154

Kind regards,
koppi

[Bald Eagle] Re: Dominoes [104 days 23 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 May 2026 15:00:00 GMT

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> It works! - see attached screenshot, jippie!

Excellent.

I see that the dominoes are positioned at an angle, and that spot around the
270-degree mark has a marked discontinuity, and so those dominoes get shot out.

Can you position the dominoes so that they are perpendicular to the normal of
the spiral?  Or is the imperfectness of their placement a "feature" for more
realism?

- BW

[koppi] Re: Dominoes [105 days 1 hour and 5 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 May 2026 13:20:00 GMT

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> It works! - see attached screenshot, jippie!

Video link
https://youtu.be/coJWp8DlpFU

[koppi] Re: Dominoes [105 days 1 hour and 55 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 May 2026 12:30:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Hopefully you can see how that's all daisy-chained together and can use that to
> place your dominoes.

Oh Bill, thank's for the inspiration!

I just added the arc_length and solve_theta_for_arc functions to my Lua code:

https://github.com/bullet-physics-playground/bpp/commit/2b52508742249fe96dc48f6aa3b2ef5ab3867bd0

It works! - see attached screenshot, jippie!

[Bald Eagle] Re: Dominoes [105 days 3 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 May 2026 10:50:00 GMT

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> I would like to have equal spacing between the dominoes, but I do not know how
> to calculate that, do you have an idea?

Luckily, I have played a lot with spirals, and needed to address this issue when
implementing Marschner's wood texture.

Here's a little scene that calculates the arc length along the spiral and uses
that to control a pigment {function {}}.

Hopefully you can see how that's all daisy-chained together and can use that to
place your dominoes.

- Bill

[koppi] Re: Dominoes [105 days 4 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 May 2026 10:20:00 GMT

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>  I was wondering how you place the dominoes. I use a spline for placement. I
> have my dominoes placed 2 pov units apart. That because I don't use true physics
> to move the dominoes.

Archimedean spiral calculation is used to create the control points [1]:

  [... line 47]:
  local angle = (i - 1) * 0.09
  local radius = 5 + angle * 0.95
  cp = {
    x = math.cos(angle) * radius,
    y = y_pos,
    z = math.sin(angle) * radius,
  }
  [...]

The control points are then fed to the Catmull-Rom spline function [2] with the
tension parameter set to 0.5.

>  Noticed that your dominoes have different spacing, they got tighter toward the
> center.

I would like to have equal spacing between the dominoes, but I do not know how
to calculate that, do you have an idea?

> Your physics engine did a good job of dropping them. I also like the
> wiggle the engine gave to the already down dominoes.

I have been experimenting with different parameters for the friction,
restitution, linear and angular damping of the dominoes, currently using:

  friction = 0.01
  restitution = 0.01
  damp_lin = 0.5
  damp_ang = 0.01

Kind regards,
koppi

--
[1]
https://github.com/bullet-physics-playground/bpp/blob/b558bdf8e8ab23a1438d0162d40c7f0029eb3efd/demo/basic/11-domino.lua

[2]
https://github.com/bullet-physics-playground/bpp/blob/b558bdf8e8ab23a1438d0162d40c7f0029eb3efd/demo/module/spline.lua#L
134

[Sir] playing with iridiscence [105 days 16 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Thu, 30 Apr 2026 21:30:00 GMT

This bubble was created using the irid block.

[Leroy] Re: Dominoes [105 days 19 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Thu, 30 Apr 2026 19:00:00 GMT

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > Video link
> > https://youtu.be/gJtzmqIOLw8
> >
> >
> > Have Fun :)
>
> I too like to simulate and render dominoes inside the bullet physics playground,
> see:
>
>   https://youtu.be/B7EtmXFeUE0
>
> Happy POVing!

Cool! The music was a good touch. I should have put some sound on mine, but I
got lazy. What I thought of doing is make the sound of a domino hitting the next
and sliding down. Then use that sound in sync with the dominoes movement. Maybe
one of these days.
 I was wondering how you place the dominoes. I use a spline for placement. I
have my dominoes placed 2 pov units apart. That because I don't use true physics
to move the dominoes. With them spaced evenly I could simplify the movement
function.
 Noticed that your dominoes have different spacing, they got tighter toward the
center. Your physics engine did a good job of dropping them. I also like the
wiggle the engine gave to the already down dominoes.

Have Fun!

[Cossack ] Re: Dominoes [106 days 6 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Thu, 30 Apr 2026 07:35:00 GMT

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > Video link
> > https://youtu.be/gJtzmqIOLw8
> >
> >
> > Have Fun :)
>
> I too like to simulate and render dominoes inside the bullet physics playground,
> see:
>
> https://youtu.be/B7EtmXFeUE0
>
> Happy POVing!

And did he work on this BPP terminal?

[koppi] Re: Dominoes [106 days 16 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Apr 2026 22:15:00 GMT

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Video link
> https://youtu.be/gJtzmqIOLw8
>
>
> Have Fun :)

I too like to simulate and render dominoes inside the bullet physics playground,
see:

  https://youtu.be/B7EtmXFeUE0

Happy POVing!

[jr] Re: NAN math [106 days 22 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Apr 2026 15:35:00 GMT

hi,

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> On 27/03/2026 00:13, Bald Eagle wrote:
> > ...
> > NAN is treated differently in the parser than in the function VM.
> > NAN equals - EVERYTHING in the parser.
> > NAN equals nothing, not even itself in the function VM.
> > ...
> Tim Nikias's message does not specify a POV version.
> But, mathematically speaking, it makes sense :
>
> lim      1/x = +∞ and    lim      1/x = -∞
> x -> 0+                  x -> 0-
>
> but no NAN.
>
> In version 3.8 this code
>  #declare a = 1/0;
>  #debug concat("a = ",str(a,0,-1),"\n")
>
> Give :
>  Parse Warning: Divide by zero.
>  a = inf

(not knowing what I do :-)) a-a displays -nan.


regards, jr.

[kurtz le pirate] Re: NAN math [106 days 23 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Apr 2026 15:08:59 GMT

On 27/03/2026 00:13, Bald Eagle wrote:
> I've been working on making my vector arity macro robust, and I came across this
> surprising fact while stress testing.
> 
> NAN is treated differently in the parser than in the function VM.
> 
> NAN equals - EVERYTHING in the parser.
> 
> NAN equals nothing, not even itself in the function VM.
> 
> So my IfNan () macro fails, but my IfNan () function works as expected.
> 
> I'll need to dig into this and see where in the source it goes wrong.
> 
> I also recall seeing a thread where people were playing with N/0, and I think
> the parser biases that - probably because it allows certain code to keep going.
> 
> https://news.povray.org/44294a5a%241%40news.povray.org
> 
> - BE
> 




Tim Nikias's message does not specify a POV version.
But, mathematically speaking, it makes sense :

lim      1/x = +âˆž and    lim      1/x = -âˆž
x -> 0+                  x -> 0-

but no NAN.



In version 3.8 this code
	#declare a = 1/0;
	#debug concat("a = ",str(a,0,-1),"\n")

Give :
	Parse Warning: Divide by zero.
	a = inf

Only parse warning. No stop error in parser.


It is reasonable to assume that 1e+017 is equivalent to âˆž




-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Francois LE COAT] Re: Optical Inertia [108 days and 40 minutes ago]

Tue, 28 Apr 2026 13:45:03 GMT

Hi,

Here is a sequence of images of a ballad in the forest. This scene is
observed by a tracking drone...

	<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4aTYv7A1lM>

The camera's movement is estimated in the images using a projective
dominant motion measurement. The presence of a man in the image sequence
does not interfere with trajectory estimation, because the character
occupies a position in the field of vision that is not dominant. The
dominant motion corresponds to the scrolling of the scenery, that is
the movement of an observing camera relative to the forest.

Best regards,

-- 
François LE COAT
<https://eureka.atari.org/>

[Leroy] Dominoes [108 days 17 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 Apr 2026 21:15:00 GMT

3oo plus animated dominoes. Made the dominoes a while back and gave up animating
them because placing them wasn't very much FUN. I started back up because making
small sets that create simple shapes was! If you create a group of these sets
then you can place a lot of dominoes fairly quickly.
 I tried to get the video size down small enough to attach here, but couldn't.
So I put it on YouTube. Hope you enjoy it.

Video link
https://youtu.be/gJtzmqIOLw8


Have Fun :)

[Bald Eagle] Re: Browser fingerprinting [108 days 20 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 Apr 2026 17:40:00 GMT

ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:

> ... and they scrape.

I have often wondered if they do this to "scoop" things like patents, book
plots, movie screenplays, series pilots, or any other IP.

Big Data was scary 25 years ago.
Things are exponentially more powerful and consolidated now.

- BE

[ingo] Re: Browser fingerprinting [108 days 21 hours and 17 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 Apr 2026 17:07:59 GMT

On 2026-04-27 16:44, Cossack wrote:

> fuck...


Precies dat.

Similar for email. There's 7 or 8 big ones all mail goes trough and they 
scrape.

If there's anything to be monetized, it will be monetized.

ingo

[Bald Eagle] Re: Browser fingerprinting [108 days 23 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 Apr 2026 14:55:00 GMT

Tools for testing:

WhatIsMyBrowser.com: Provides detailed info on your browser version, OS, user
agent, and device, plus checks if essential features like JavaScript and cookies
are enabled.

WhatsMyBrowser.org: A simple and efficient site to quickly identify and share
your browser details with developers or support teams.

BrowserLeaks.com: Offers a comprehensive suite of tests to identify your real IP
address, browser fingerprinting, and potential security leaks.

Cover Your Tracks (EFF): An Electronic Frontier Foundation project that tests
how well your browser protects against online tracking.

BrowserAudit.com: Runs over 400 tests on your browser to evaluate the security
standards and protections it implements.

[Cossack ] Re: Browser fingerprinting [108 days 23 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 Apr 2026 14:45:00 GMT

ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> In the early days of Amazon, book prizes where different based on the
> browser you used. Buying books with IE was more expensive than with
> Mozilla.
>
> Nothing has changed, it only got worse.
>
>
> On 2026-04-27 12:44, Bald Eagle wrote:
> > https://www.thatprivacyguy.com/blog/the-beast-behind-the-browser/
> >

fuck...

[ingo] Re: Browser fingerprinting [109 days 2 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 Apr 2026 12:15:28 GMT

In the early days of Amazon, book prizes where different based on the 
browser you used. Buying books with IE was more expensive than than with 
Mozilla.

Nothing has changed, it only got worse.

On 2026-04-27 12:44, Bald Eagle wrote:
> https://www.thatprivacyguy.com/blog/the-beast-behind-the-browser/
>

[Bald Eagle] Browser fingerprinting [109 days 3 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 Apr 2026 10:45:00 GMT

For those with an interest:

https://www.thatprivacyguy.com/blog/the-beast-behind-the-browser/

[Cousin Ricky] A multiplicity of spikes [109 days 16 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Sun, 26 Apr 2026 21:53:56 GMT

The halo is on hold until I can figure out a faster way to render them.
Meanwhile, this experiment uses smaller filler rays between the
diffraction spikes.

[Cossack ] Re: How to install UberPov on termux? [110 days 6 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Sun, 26 Apr 2026 07:50:00 GMT

"Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > "Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> > > "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > > > I have a question, how to install this version on Android?
> > >
> > > Hi!
> > > Have you tried to follow, or get inspired by this page ? :
> > >
> > > https://wiki.povray.org/content/HowTo:Install_POV#Termux
> >
> > ~/UberPOV $ ./configure COMPILED_BY='YourName <mai### [at] testcom>' --without-x
> > --disable-io-restrictions --with-boost-libdir=$PREFIX/lib LIBS='-lboost_system
> > -lboost_thread' CXX=clang++ CC=clang CXXFLAGS='-I$PREFIX/include -O3'
> > LDFLAGS='-L$PREFIX/lib'
> > ...
>
>
> a) Did you forget to run "termux-setup-storage"?
>
> b) is your phone architecture 64bits or 32 ?
>
> c) Does "-mcpu=native" BOTH in CFLAGS AND CXXFLAGS solve it?
>
> d) aren't O flags such as your -O3 prematurely optimization-related before
> getting everything to just work?
>
> e) also providing too many other options such as paths may be trickier on
> android than letting it auto find stuff? (providing those when you run POV later
> is always possible)
>
> my configure line looked more like that:
>
> ../configure COMPILED_BY="your name <email@address>" --without-x
> --disable-io-restrictions LIBS="-lboost_system -lboost_thread" CXX=clang++
> CC=clang CFLAGS="-mcpu=native" CXXFLAGS="-mcpu=native"
>
> Then if okay, running make without check would also often run more smoothly
>
>
> Another question, if everthing fails : before going for Uberpov did you try to
> install normal version of POV that is now available in Termux packages? if so
> does it work?

Forgot to write pkg install povray works very well version 3.8
Here is the render on this version :]

[Cossack ] Re: How to install UberPov on termux? [110 days 9 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Sun, 26 Apr 2026 04:40:00 GMT

"Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > "Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> > > "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > > > I have a question, how to install this version on Android?
> > >
> > > Hi!
> > > Have you tried to follow, or get inspired by this page ? :
> > >
> > > https://wiki.povray.org/content/HowTo:Install_POV#Termux
> >
> > ~/UberPOV $ ./configure COMPILED_BY='YourName <mai### [at] testcom>' --without-x
> > --disable-io-restrictions --with-boost-libdir=$PREFIX/lib LIBS='-lboost_system
> > -lboost_thread' CXX=clang++ CC=clang CXXFLAGS='-I$PREFIX/include -O3'
> > LDFLAGS='-L$PREFIX/lib'
> > ...
>
>
> a) Did you forget to run "termux-setup-storage"?
>
> b) is your phone architecture 64bits or 32 ?
>
> c) Does "-mcpu=native" BOTH in CFLAGS AND CXXFLAGS solve it?
>
> d) aren't O flags such as your -O3 prematurely optimization-related before
> getting everything to just work?
>
> e) also providing too many other options such as paths may be trickier on
> android than letting it auto find stuff? (providing those when you run POV later
> is always possible)
>
> my configure line looked more like that:
>
> ../configure COMPILED_BY="your name <email@address>" --without-x
> --disable-io-restrictions LIBS="-lboost_system -lboost_thread" CXX=clang++
> CC=clang CFLAGS="-mcpu=native" CXXFLAGS="-mcpu=native"
>
> Then if okay, running make without check would also often run more smoothly
>
>
> Another question, if everthing fails : before going for Uberpov did you try to
> install normal version of POV that is now available in Termux packages? if so
> does it work?
I gave access to the files, and I have a 32 bit system.
I'll check everything else right now .

[Mr] Re: How to install UberPov on termux? [110 days 20 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Sat, 25 Apr 2026 17:55:00 GMT

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> "Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> > "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > > I have a question, how to install this version on Android?
> >
> > Hi!
> > Have you tried to follow, or get inspired by this page ? :
> >
> > https://wiki.povray.org/content/HowTo:Install_POV#Termux
>
> ~/UberPOV $ ./configure COMPILED_BY='YourName <mai### [at] testcom>' --without-x
> --disable-io-restrictions --with-boost-libdir=$PREFIX/lib LIBS='-lboost_system
> -lboost_thread' CXX=clang++ CC=clang CXXFLAGS='-I$PREFIX/include -O3'
> LDFLAGS='-L$PREFIX/lib'
> ...

a) Did you forget to run "termux-setup-storage"?

b) is your phone architecture 64bits or 32 ?

c) Does "-mcpu=native" BOTH in CFLAGS AND CXXFLAGS solve it?

d) aren't O flags such as your -O3 prematurely optimization-related before
getting everything to just work?

e) also providing too many other options such as paths may be trickier on
android than letting it auto find stuff? (providing those when you run POV later
is always possible)

my configure line looked more like that:

../configure COMPILED_BY="your name <email@address>" --without-x
--disable-io-restrictions LIBS="-lboost_system -lboost_thread" CXX=clang++
CC=clang CFLAGS="-mcpu=native" CXXFLAGS="-mcpu=native"

Then if okay, running make without check would also often run more smoothly

Another question, if everthing fails : before going for Uberpov did you try to
install normal version of POV that is now available in Termux packages? if so
does it work?

[Cossack ] Re: How to install UberPov on termux? [111 days 19 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Apr 2026 19:15:00 GMT

"Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > I have a question, how to install this version on Android?
>
> Hi!
> Have you tried to follow, or get inspired by this page ? :
>
> https://wiki.povray.org/content/HowTo:Install_POV#Termux

~/UberPOV $ ./configure COMPILED_BY='YourName <mai### [at] testcom>' --without-x
--disable-io-restrictions --with-boost-libdir=$PREFIX/lib LIBS='-lboost_system
-lboost_thread' CXX=clang++ CC=clang CXXFLAGS='-I$PREFIX/include -O3'
LDFLAGS='-L$PREFIX/lib'


===============================================================================
Configure UberPOV version 1.37.1.0-beta.10

===============================================================================

This is an unofficial version compiled by:
 YourName <mai### [at] testcom>
       The POV-Ray Team(tm) is not responsible for supporting this version.

       Environment
              -----------
                     checking build system type...
armv8l-unknown-linux-androideabi                          checking host system
type... armv8l-unknown-linux-androideabi
checking for a BSD-compatible install...
/data/data/com.termux/files/usr/bin/install -c checking whether sleep supports
fractional seconds... yes                               checking filesystem
timestamp resolution... 0.01
checking whether build environment is sane... yes
       /data/data/com.termux/files/usr/bin/sh: 0: cannot open
"/data/data/com.termux/files/home/UberPOV/unix/config"/missing: No such file
configure: WARNING: 'missing' script is too old or missing
       checking for a race-free mkdir -p...
/data/data/com.termux/files/usr/bin/mkdir -p       checking for gawk... gawk
                                                          checking whether make
sets $(MAKE)... yes                                               checking
whether make supports nested variables... yes
checking xargs -n works... yes
checking whether UID '10301' is supported by ustar format... yes
       checking whether GID '10301' is supported by ustar format... yes
              checking how to create a ustar tar archive... gnutar
checking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of Makefiles... no
       checking whether $C_INCLUDE_PATH contains the "." path... no
              checking whether $CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH contains the "." path... no

       Programs
              --------
                     checking for gcc... clang
                            checking whether the C compiler works... yes
checking for C compiler default output file name... a.out
       checking for suffix of executables...
              checking whether we are cross compiling... no
checking for suffix of object files... o
       checking whether the compiler supports GNU C... yes
              checking whether clang accepts -g... yes
checking for clang option to enable C23 features... -std=gnu23
       checking whether clang -std=gnu23 understands -c and -o together... yes
              checking whether make supports the include directive... yes (GNU
style)
checking dependency style of clang -std=gnu23... gcc3
       checking how to run the C preprocessor... clang -std=gnu23 -E
              checking for stdio.h... yes
                     checking for stdlib.h... yes
                            checking for string.h... yes
checking for inttypes.h... yes
       checking for stdint.h... yes
              checking for strings.h... yes
checking for sys/stat.h... yes
checking for sys/types.h... yes
       checking for unistd.h... yes
checking for stdlib.h... (cached) yes
checking whether the compiler supports GNU C++... yes
       checking whether clang++ accepts -g... yes
checking dependency style of clang++... gcc3
checking whether the clang++ compiler works... yes
checking how to run the C++ preprocessor... clang++ -E
       checking for C++ compiler vendor... gnu
checking for grep that handles long lines and -e...
/data/data/com.termux/files/usr/bin/grep
checking for egrep... /data/data/com.termux/files/usr/bin/grep -E
checking for clang++ version... 21.1.8
       checking for ranlib... ranlib

                     Libraries
                            ---------
                                   checking whether to link with cygwin DLL...
no                                          checking whether to enable static
linking... no                                         checking for the pthreads
library -lpthreads... no
checking whether pthreads work without any flags... yes
       checking for joinable pthread attribute... PTHREAD_CREATE_JOINABLE
              checking if more special flags are required for pthreads... no
                     checking for boostlib >= 1.38... yes
checking whether the Boost::Thread library is available... yes
       checking for exit in -lboost_thread... yes
checking whether the boost thread library is usable... yes
       checking for sin in -lmkl... no
              checking for sin in -lm... yes
                     checking for clock_gettime in -lrt... yes
                            checking whether to use the ZLIB library... yes
checking for library containing zlibVersion... -lz
       checking for zlib.h... yes
              checking for libz version >= 1.2.1... 1.3.2, ok
                     checking whether to use the PNG library... yes
                            checking for library containing
png_get_libpng_ver... -lpng                             checking for png.h...
yes
checking for libpng version >= 1.2.5... 1.6.58, ok
       checking whether to use the JPEG library... yes
              checking for library containing jpeg_std_error... -ljpeg
                     checking for jpeglib.h... yes
                            checking for libjpeg version >= 6b (62)... 80, ok
                                   checking whether to use the TIFF library...
yes                                         checking for library containing
TIFFGetVersion... -ltiff
checking for tiffio.h... yes
       checking for libtiff version >= 3.6.1... 4.7.1, ok
              checking whether to use the OpenEXR library... yes
                     checking for pkg-config... pkg-config
checking for OpenEXR's pkg-config... yes
       checking for OpenEXR version >= 1.2... 3.4.4, ok
              checking for OpenEXR/ImfCRgbaFile.h... yes
                     checking for ImfInputReadPixels in -lIlmImf... no
                            configure: WARNING: all program features using the
OpenEXR library are disabled         checking for X... disabled
                                            configure: X Window display will be
disabled
Language constructs and functions
       ---------------------------------
              checking for sys/time.h... yes
                     checking for time.h... yes
                            checking for limits.h... yes
checking for sys/resource.h... yes
       checking for sys/time.h... (cached) yes
              checking for sys/wait.h... yes
checking for unistd.h... (cached) yes
checking for size_t... yes
checking whether struct tm is in sys/time.h or time.h... time.h
       checking size of int... 4
checking size of long int... 4
checking size of size_t... 4
checking size of float... 4
       checking for working memcmp... yes
              checking for vsnprintf... yes
checking for getcwd... yes
       checking for nanosleep... yes
checking for clock_gettime... yes
       checking for getrusage... yes
checking for gettimeofday... yes
checking for asinh... yes

       Compiling
---------
       checking whether to enable pipes for communications... yes
checking whether clang++ accepts -pipe... yes
       checking whether clang++ accepts -Wno-multichar... yes
checking whether clang++ accepts -Wno-write-strings... yes
checking whether clang++ accepts -fno-enforce-eh-specs... no
checking whether clang++ accepts -Wno-non-template-friend... no
       checking whether to enable I/O restrictions... no
checking whether to enable debugging... no
checking whether to enable profiling... no
checking whether to enable stripping... yes
       checking whether clang++ accepts -s... no
configure: WARNING: Cannot set stripping mode
       checking whether to enable optimizations... yes
checking whether clang++ accepts -O3... yes
       checking whether clang++ accepts -ffast-math... yes
checking whether to enable architecture-specific optimizations... yes
       checking which architecture to optimize for...
armv8l-unknown-linux-androideabi
                                                Floating Point Features
-----------------------
       checking for limits... yes
              checking whether NaNs are supported... yes
checking for cmath... yes
       checking whether NaNs can be identified using std::isnan()... no
checking whether NaNs can be identified using global isnan()... no
       checking whether NaNs can be identified by comparison to themselves... no
checking whether infinite values are supported... yes
       checking for cmath... (cached) yes
              checking whether infinities can be identified using
std::isinf()... no                  checking whether infinities can be
identified using global isinf()... no                checking whether infinities
can be identified by comparison to the maximum value... no

Makefiles
       ---------
checking that generated files are newer than configure... done
       configure: creating ./config.status
config.status: creating Makefile
       config.status: creating source/Makefile
              config.status: creating vfe/Makefile
                     config.status: creating unix/Makefile
                            config.status: creating config.h
config.status: executing depfiles commands


===============================================================================
       UberPOV 1.37.1.0-beta.10 has been configured.
Built-in features:
  I/O restrictions:          disabled
         X Window display:          disabled
                Supported image formats:   gif tga iff ppm pgm hdr png jpeg tiff
  Unsupported image formats: openexr

              Compilation settings:
  Build architecture:  armv8l-unknown-linux-androideabi
  Built/Optimized for: armv8l-unknown-linux-androideabi
  Compiler vendor:     gnu
         Compiler version:    clang++ 21.1.8
  Compiler flags:      -pipe -Wno-multichar -Wno-write-strings -O3 -ffast-math
-I$PREFIX/include -O3

                       Type 'make check' to build the program and run a test
render.
Type 'make install' to install UberPOV on your system.
The UberPOV components will be installed in the following directories:
         Program (executable):       /usr/local/bin
                System configuration files: /usr/local/etc/uberpov/1.37
  User configuration files:   /data/data/com.termux/files/home/.uberpov/1.37
  Standard include files:     /usr/local/share/uberpov-1.37/include
         Standard INI files:         /usr/local/share/uberpov-1.37/ini
  Standard demo scene files:  /usr/local/share/uberpov-1.37/scenes
         Documentation (text, HTML): /usr/local/share/doc/uberpov-1.37
  Unix man page:              /usr/local/share/man
===============================================================================

       ~/UberPOV $ make check
make  all-recursive
make[1]: Entering directory '/data/data/com.termux/files/home/UberPOV'
       Making all in source
              make[2]: Entering directory
'/data/data/com.termux/files/home/UberPOV/source'           depbase=`echo
backend/bounding/bbox.o | sed 's|[^/]*$|.deps/&|;s|\.o$||'`;\
clang++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I..  -I.. -I../source/backend -I../source/base
-I../source/frontend -I../unix -I../vfe -I../vfe/unix -pthread   -pipe
-Wno-multichar -Wno-write-strings -O3 -ffast-math -IREFIX/include -O3 -MT
backend/bounding/bbox.o -MD -MP -MF $depbase.Tpo -c -o backend/bounding/bbox.o
backend/bounding/bbox.cpp &&\                       mv -f $depbase.Tpo
$depbase.Po
In file included from backend/bounding/bbox.cpp:41:
       In file included from ./backend/frame.h:67:
In file included from ./base/configbase.h:51:
In file included from ../vfe/unix/syspovconfigbase.h:39:
       ../vfe/unix/syspovconfig.h:63:10: fatal error:
      'boost/tr1/memory.hpp' file not found
          63 | #include <boost/tr1/memory.hpp>
      |          ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1 error generated.
make[2]: *** [Makefile:1253: backend/bounding/bbox.o] Error 1
       make[2]: Leaving directory
'/data/data/com.termux/files/home/UberPOV/source'
make[1]: *** [Makefile:628: all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory '/data/data/com.termux/files/home/UberPOV'
       make: *** [Makefile:463: all] Error 2
              ~/UberPOV $ make -j$(nproc)
                     make  all-recursive
                            make[1]: Entering directory
'/data/data/com.termux/files/home/UberPOV'
Making all in source
make[2]: Entering directory '/data/data/com.termux/files/home/UberPOV/source'
       depbase=`echo backend/bounding/bbox.o | sed
's|[^/]*$|.deps/&|;s|\.o$||'`;\             clang++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I..
-I.. -I../source/backend -I../source/base -I../source/frontend -I../unix
-I../vfe -I../vfe/unix -pthread   -pipe -Wno-multichar -Wno-write-strings -O3
-ffast-math -IREFIX/include -O3 -MT backend/bounding/bbox.o -MD -MP -MF
$depbase.Tpo -c -o backend/bounding/bbox.o backend/bounding/bbox.cpp &&\
              mv -f $depbase.Tpo $depbase.Po
                     depbase=`echo backend/bounding/bcyl.o | sed
's|[^/]*$|.deps/&|;s|\.o$||'`;\             clang++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I..
-I.. -I../source/backend -I../source/base -I../source/frontend -I../unix
-I../vfe -I../vfe/unix -pthread   -pipe -Wno-multichar -Wno-write-strings -O3
-ffast-math -IREFIX/include -O3 -MT backend/bounding/bcyl.o -MD -MP -MF
$depbase.Tpo -c -o backend/bounding/bcyl.o backend/bounding/bcyl.cpp &&\
              mv -f $depbase.Tpo $depbase.Po
                     depbase=`echo backend/bounding/boundingtask.o | sed
's|[^/]*$|.deps/&|;s|\.o$||'`;\
clang++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I..  -I.. -I../source/backend -I../source/base
-I../source/frontend -I../unix -I../vfe -I../vfe/unix -pthread   -pipe
-Wno-multichar -Wno-write-strings -O3 -ffast-math -IREFIX/include -O3 -MT
backend/bounding/boundingtask.o -MD -MP -MF $depbase.Tpo -c -o
backend/bounding/boundingtask.o backend/bounding/boundingtask.cpp &&\
                                                                           mv -f
$depbase.Tpo $depbase.Po
 depbase=`echo backend/bounding/bsphere.o | sed 's|[^/]*$|.deps/&|;s|\.o$||'`;\
clang++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I..  -I.. -I../source/backend -I../source/base
-I../source/frontend -I../unix -I../vfe -I../vfe/unix -pthread   -pipe
-Wno-multichar -Wno-write-strings -O3 -ffast-math -IREFIX/include -O3 -MT
backend/bounding/bsphere.o -MD -MP -MF $depbase.Tpo -c -o
backend/bounding/bsphere.o backend/bounding/bsphere.cpp &&\              mv -f
$depbase.Tpo $depbase.Po
 depbase=`echo base/path.o | sed 's|[^/]*$|.deps/&|;s|\.o$||'`;\
clang++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I..  -I.. -I../source/backend -I../source/base
-I../source/frontend -I../unix -I../vfe -I../vfe/unix -pthread   -pipe
-Wno-multichar -Wno-write-strings -O3 -ffast-math -IREFIX/include -O3 -MT
base/path.o -MD -MP -MF $depbase.Tpo -c -o base/path.o base/path.cpp &&\
                                                  mv -f $depbase.Tpo $depbase.Po
                                                         depbase=`echo
base/pov_err.o | sed 's|[^/]*$|.deps/&|;s|\.o$||'`;\
clang++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I..  -I.. -I../source/backend -I../source/base
-I../source/frontend -I../unix -I../vfe -I../vfe/unix -pthread   -pipe
-Wno-multichar -Wno-write-strings -O3 -ffast-math -IREFIX/include -O3 -MT
base/pov_err.o -MD -MP -MF $depbase.Tpo -c -o base/pov_err.o base/pov_err.cpp
&&\                                                  mv -f $depbase.Tpo
$depbase.Po
depbase=`echo base/povms.o | sed 's|[^/]*$|.deps/&|;s|\.o$||'`;\
       clang++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I..  -I.. -I../source/backend
-I../source/base -I../source/frontend -I../unix -I../vfe -I../vfe/unix -pthread
 -pipe -Wno-multichar -Wno-write-strings -O3 -ffast-math -IREFIX/include -O3 -MT
base/povms.o -MD -MP -MF $depbase.Tpo -c -o base/povms.o base/povms.cpp &&\
                                                  mv -f $depbase.Tpo $depbase.Po
                                                         depbase=`echo
base/povmscpp.o | sed 's|[^/]*$|.deps/&|;s|\.o$||'`;\
clang++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I..  -I.. -I../source/backend -I../source/base
-I../source/frontend -I../unix -I../vfe -I../vfe/unix -pthread   -pipe
-Wno-multichar -Wno-write-strings -O3 -ffast-math -IREFIX/include -O3 -MT
base/povmscpp.o -MD -MP -MF $depbase.Tpo -c -o base/povmscpp.o base/povmscpp.cpp
&&\                                               mv -f $depbase.Tpo $depbase.Po
                                                         In file included from
backend/bounding/bsphere.cpp:39:                                  In file
included from ./backend/frame.h:67:
In file included from ./base/configbase.h:51:
In file included from ../vfe/unix/syspovconfigbase.h:39:
       ../vfe/unix/syspovconfig.h:63:10: fatal error:
                    'boost/tr1/memory.hpp' file not found
                        63 | #include <boost/tr1/memory.hpp>
                                  |          ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                   In file included from
backend/bounding/bcyl.cpp:38:                                     In file
included from ./backend/frame.h:67:
In file included from ./base/configbase.h:51:
In file included from ../vfe/unix/syspovconfigbase.h:39:
       ../vfe/unix/syspovconfig.h:63:10: fatal error:
                    'boost/tr1/memory.hpp' file not found
                        63 | #include <boost/tr1/memory.hpp>
      |          ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In file included from base/povms.cpp:44:
In file included from base/configbase.h:51:
       In file included from ../vfe/unix/syspovconfigbase.h:39:
              ../vfe/unix/syspovconfig.h:63:10: fatal error:
                           'boost/tr1/memory.hpp' file not found
   63 | #include <boost/tr1/memory.hpp>
             |          ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In file included from backend/bounding/bbox.cpp:41:
       In file included from ./backend/frame.h:67:
              In file included from ./base/configbase.h:51:
                     In file included from ../vfe/unix/syspovconfigbase.h:39:
.../vfe/unix/syspovconfig.h:63:10: fatal error:
      'boost/tr1/memory.hpp' file not found
          63 | #include <boost/tr1/memory.hpp>
                    |          ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                     1 error generated.
                            make[2]: *** [Makefile:1253:
backend/bounding/bsphere.o] Error 1                        make[2]: *** Waiting
for unfinished jobs....                                            1 error
generated.
1 error generated.
make[2]: *** [Makefile:1253: base/povms.o] Error 1
       make[2]: *** [Makefile:1253: backend/bounding/bcyl.o] Error 1
              In file included from base/path.cpp:37:
                     In file included from ./base/configbase.h:51:
                            In file included from
.../vfe/unix/syspovconfigbase.h:39:
.../vfe/unix/syspovconfig.h:63:10: fatal error:
      'boost/tr1/memory.hpp' file not found
          63 | #include <boost/tr1/memory.hpp>
                    |          ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                     In file included from base/povmscpp.cpp:42:
                            In file included from base/configbase.h:51:
                                   In file included from
.../vfe/unix/syspovconfigbase.h:39:
.../vfe/unix/syspovconfig.h:63:10: fatal error:
      'boost/tr1/memory.hpp' file not found
   63 | #include <boost/tr1/memory.hpp>
             |          ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              1 error generated.
                     make[2]: *** [Makefile:1253: base/path.o] Error 1
                            1 error generated.
make[2]: *** [Makefile:1253: base/povmscpp.o] Error 1
       In file included from base/pov_err.cpp:45:
In file included from ./base/configbase.h:51:
       In file included from ../vfe/unix/syspovconfigbase.h:39:
.../vfe/unix/syspovconfig.h:63:10: fatal error:
      'boost/tr1/memory.hpp' file not found
          63 | #include <boost/tr1/memory.hpp>
      |          ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1 error generated.
make[2]: *** [Makefile:1253: base/pov_err.o] Error 1
1 error generated.
       make[2]: *** [Makefile:1253: backend/bounding/bbox.o] Error 1
In file included from backend/bounding/boundingtask.cpp:50:
In file included from ./backend/frame.h:67:
In file included from ./base/configbase.h:51:
       In file included from ../vfe/unix/syspovconfigbase.h:39:
.../vfe/unix/syspovconfig.h:63:10: fatal error:
      'boost/tr1/memory.hpp' file not found
   63 | #include <boost/tr1/memory.hpp>
             |          ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1 error generated.
make[2]: *** [Makefile:1253: backend/bounding/boundingtask.o] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory '/data/data/com.termux/files/home/UberPOV/source'
       make[1]: *** [Makefile:628: all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory '/data/data/com.termux/files/home/UberPOV'
make: *** [Makefile:463: all] Error 2
~/UberPOV $
Damn :[

[jr] Re: Bullet physics engine test [112 days and 40 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Apr 2026 13:45:00 GMT

hi,

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> ...
> Guys, I have an idea to make POV-Ray popular on phones

.... to be continued ...  </grin>


regards, jr.

[jr] Re: Bullet physics engine test [112 days and 40 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Apr 2026 13:45:00 GMT

hi,

yesbird wrote:
> On 23/04/2026 17:51, jr wrote:
> > I like the idea of putting the "phone" to a proper use ...
> > 2nd hand iPhone SE ...
> I guess the first step should be a putting Linux on iPhone :).

the "app store" has something called 'iSH' </sigh>, billed as an "Alpine Shell",
will look into that.  (thanks for the "push" :-))

regards, jr.

[jr] Re: Bullet physics engine test [112 days and 40 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Apr 2026 13:45:00 GMT

hi,

> ...
> > I'm nominating this as a file to be put on the wiki as a special resource.
> > If TOK or someone with knowledge of the use of quaternions can look it over to
> > determine if there are any other functions/macros that would be needed for a
> > more complete quaternion library, that would be great.
>
> yes, a thorough assessment and perhaps a little "spit & polish", and I'd second
> your "nomination".

re that, if someone "maths-minded" is thinking about 'quaternions.inc', some
"metrics".  the file is quite small (<250 lines), in well written "greek" :-);
23 macros, some 60-odd local variables (bar three declared).  also, attached a
cross-reference.  thx.


regards, jr.

[Mr] Re: Would you like a drink? [112 days 2 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Apr 2026 11:35:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> On 20/04/2026 16:52, Mr wrote:
> >
> > For smoked oak wood, the following page shows low reflectivity but the
> > interaction with bitmap is hard to assign. Maybe start with a grey material to
> > get the shininess right...?
> > https://gustafs.com/knowledge-hub/surfaces/ligt-reflection-values/
> >
>
>
> Light reflectance... interesting topic.
> The next step is to figure out how to implement this feature in POV-Ray.
>
>
>
>
> --
> kurtz le pirate
> compagnie de la banquise

From what I understand it's already there when using albedo options. as they
prevent the various components to go above 1 in the final sum, so if you put
albedo on all components, and fresnel with conserve_energy for transparent, then
it's just a choice of shaping the proportion of your reflectivity between these
diffuse, and more specular/reflective components... adding them to amount just
up to your reflectivity value. BUT... :-D BUT... when using diffuse textures,
the value component of colors act as a multiplier of this... so you would have
to sample your image to know  average value of its relevant parts to get closer
to your desired result. Any more expert opinion if I'm mistaken in all of this?

[yesbird] Re: Bullet physics engine test [112 days 2 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Apr 2026 11:30:08 GMT

On 23/04/2026 17:51, jr wrote:
> I like the idea of putting the "phone" to a proper use :-)  if you also use a
> PC, how do the render times compare, roughly ?  seeing your related thread ("How
> to install UberPov on termux"), have not used UberPov, so cannot comment/help,
> sorry, hope someone will, but I think that it would be real good ("informative")
> if you could (continue to) post about using POV-Ray on an Android; here I have a
> 2nd hand iPhone SE I would like to put to work </grin>.

I guess the first step should be a putting Linux on iPhone :).
-- 
YB

[Mr] Re: How to install UberPov on termux? [112 days 3 hours ago]

Fri, 24 Apr 2026 11:25:00 GMT

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> I have a question, how to install this version on Android?

Hi!
Have you tried to follow, or get inspired by this page ? :

https://wiki.povray.org/content/HowTo:Install_POV#Termux

[Kenneth] Re: Bullet physics engine test [112 days 3 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Apr 2026 11:15:00 GMT

About Bullet Physics: Back in July of 2013, Bill Pragnell posted some 'falling
rocks' animations that he created. Not much info as to how it was done, but the
animations look great:

https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.animations/thread/%3Cweb.51dc6d40c6eb1333354ba950%40news.povray.org%3E/

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Bullet physics engine test [112 days 4 hours and 32 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Apr 2026 09:53:06 GMT

On 23/04/2026 19:21, Kenneth wrote:

> 
> ------------
> By the way, it was your earlier fascinating thread about epicycles, and the
> links you provided,  that re-started my interest in imaginary/complex numbers.
> (Rotating/cascading epicycles that can draw a complicated outline of a T. Rex--
> that was a profound discovery for me!)
> 
>
https://news.povray.org/povray.animations/thread/%3C6901f3da%241%40news.povray.org%3E/
> 
> I meant to comment at the time, but got side-tracked with brain-twisting
> research-- to try and understand what it was all about.
> 
> 

Complex numbers are a fascinating area of mathematics. Itâ€™s my
favorite 
playground. You find them everywhere, even in unexpected places.

It all depends on your level of math.

There are other pages on my website about them.

In fact, for epicycles, the hardest part is obtaining the <x,y> 
coordinates of all the points that make up the figure !

-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Cossack ] Re: Bullet physics engine test [112 days 9 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 Apr 2026 05:15:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Hi
>
> "Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> > "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > > ... guessing BE will rub
> > > his hands in glee.. :-))
> > I'm not sad about it.
>
> "anticipation" I had in mind, sorry.
>
>
> > It's great that there's a whole include file that reliably implements
> > quaternions.
> > It's not copyrighted.
> > It's all in SDL, so it can be experimented with by anyone, and any code written
> > in c++ to provide source-level capability can be checked against the extant SDL.
> >
> > I'm nominating this as a file to be put on the wiki as a special resource.
> > If TOK or someone with knowledge of the use of quaternions can look it over
> > determine if there are any other functions/macros that would be needed for a
> > more complete quaternion library, that would be great.
>
> yes, a thorough assessment and perhaps a little "spit & polish", and I'd second
> your "nomination".
>
>
> > It would also be nice if someone could rewrite the macros as functions like that
> > they can be used at render time.
>
> I was/am "chuffed" the 20-odd years old code renders unmodified using beta.2
> :-).
>
>
> regards, jr.

Guys, I have an idea to make POV-Ray popular on phones

[jr] Re: Bullet physics engine test [112 days 16 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Thu, 23 Apr 2026 21:45:00 GMT

hi,

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > ... guessing BE will rub
> > his hands in glee.. :-))
> I'm not sad about it.

"anticipation" I had in mind, sorry.


> It's great that there's a whole include file that reliably implements
> quaternions.
> It's not copyrighted.
> It's all in SDL, so it can be experimented with by anyone, and any code written
> in c++ to provide source-level capability can be checked against the extant SDL.
>
> I'm nominating this as a file to be put on the wiki as a special resource.
> If TOK or someone with knowledge of the use of quaternions can look it over to
> determine if there are any other functions/macros that would be needed for a
> more complete quaternion library, that would be great.

yes, a thorough assessment and perhaps a little "spit & polish", and I'd second
your "nomination".


> It would also be nice of someone could rewrite the macros as functions so that
> they can be used at render time.

I was/am "chuffed" the 20-odd years old code renders unmodified using beta.2
:-).


regards, jr.

[Bald Eagle] Re: Bullet physics engine test [112 days 20 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Thu, 23 Apr 2026 17:55:00 GMT

"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> By the way, it was your earlier fascinating thread about epicycles, and the
> links you provided,  that re-started my interest in imaginary/complex numbers.
> (Rotating/cascading epicycles that can draw a complicated outline of a T. Rex--
> that was a profound discovery for me!)
>
>
https://news.povray.org/povray.animations/thread/%3C6901f3da%241%40news.povray.org%3E/
>
> I meant to comment at the time, but got side-tracked with brain-twisting
> research-- to try and understand what it was all about.

What you want is Grant Sanderson's episode on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6sGWTCMz2k

Makes all as clear as crystal compared to anything else I've read about it.

- BE

[Kenneth] Re: Bullet physics engine test [112 days 21 hours ago]

Thu, 23 Apr 2026 17:25:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> On 20/04/2026 14:25, Kenneth wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone in the POV-ray community ever built a version that will run? I seem
> > to vaguely remember *someone* doing that in the past...or maybe it was
> > just for Linux/Unix?
> >
> Some interesting links:
>
> <http://jeberger.free.fr/povray/cloth/cloth.html>
> <https://www.imagico.de/pov/tools_en.php>
>

YES, I think it was one of those that I saw years ago. Thanks!

If I understand what I see there,  it looks like there *is* a way to run some
bullet physics in Windows-- by way of installing Cygwin(?) and a particular
Cygwin DLL, along with the pre-compiled version of 'cloth.exe' that's also
available:

https://www.imagico.de/cloth/index.php

That's my guess, anyway! But I'm a virgin regarding Unix, ha, so it's not
totally clear to me as to how to go about the process of installing these and
getting them to work together (and with Windows). I need to give it some deep
thought. Maybe it's not as complicated as I imagine.

------------
By the way, it was your earlier fascinating thread about epicycles, and the
links you provided,  that re-started my interest in imaginary/complex numbers.
(Rotating/cascading epicycles that can draw a complicated outline of a T. Rex--
that was a profound discovery for me!)

https://news.povray.org/povray.animations/thread/%3C6901f3da%241%40news.povray.org%3E/

I meant to comment at the time, but got side-tracked with brain-twisting
research-- to try and understand what it was all about.

[Bald Eagle] Re: Bullet physics engine test [112 days 21 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Thu, 23 Apr 2026 16:55:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> good.  (and yes, Alain's code is well "above my pay grade", guessing BE will rub
> his hands in glee.. :-))

I'm not sad about it.
It's great that there's a whole include file that reliably implements
quaternions.
It's not copyrighted.
It's all in SDL, so it can be experimented with by anyone, and any code written
in c++ to provide source-level capability can be checked against the extant SDL.

I'm nominating this as a file to be put on the wiki as a special resource.
If TOK or someone with knowledge of the use of quaternions can look it over to
determine if there are any other functions/macros that would be needed for a
more complete quaternion library, that would be great.

It would also be nice of someone could rewrite the macros as functions so that
they can be used at render time.

- BE

[jr] Re: Bullet physics engine test [112 days 23 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Thu, 23 Apr 2026 14:55:00 GMT

hi,

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > > just a small demonstration .;]
> > very nice.  (and yes, (many) questions :-) like Leroy's, was it rendered on the
> > phone ?)
> > ...
>
> So I did the rendering on my phone, first I simulated the physics in the files
> frame1.inc,
> frame2.inc,...frame99.inc
> And then I created a scene that reads this.
> And bro, the physics are in the .inc format, that's cool :]

I like the idea of putting the "phone" to a proper use :-)  if you also use a
PC, how do the render times compare, roughly ?  seeing your related thread ("How
to install UberPov on termux"), have not used UberPov, so cannot comment/help,
sorry, hope someone will, but I think that it would be real good ("informative")
if you could (continue to) post about using POV-Ray on an Android; here I have a
2nd hand iPhone SE I would like to put to work </grin>.

regards, jr.

[Cossack ] How to install UberPov on termux? [113 days 1 hour ago]

Thu, 23 Apr 2026 13:25:00 GMT

I have a question, how to install this version on Android?

[Cossack ] Re: Bullet physics engine test [113 days 5 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Thu, 23 Apr 2026 09:20:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > just a small demonstration .;]
>
> very nice.  (and yes, (many) questions :-) like Leroy's, was it rendered on the
> phone ?)
>
>
> "Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > Very cool!
> >
> > I have always wanted to play with this 'bullet physics' code in POV-ray, but I
> > have no idea how to get it to run in MS Windows, or if it is even available in a
> > 'Windows friendly' form. (I am not a C/C++ programmer.)
> >
> > Has anyone in the POV-ray community ever built a version that will run? I seem
> > to vaguely remember *someone* doing that in the past...or maybe it was just for
> > Linux/Unix?
>
> I found the attached 2003 code by Alain Ducharme in TdG's (extensive) archives,
> a "Povray rigid ball dynamics simulator", not quite "bullet physics" but...  all
> in SDL, no other languages needed; I'm sure that there will be other code, 30+
> years is a long time.  there is no explicit mention of licensing, but the author
> writes "in the meantime, you may wish to collapse the required macros into your
> main SimBall .pov files" -- sounds "permissive".  two (quickly rendered :-))
> animations AD wrote:
> <drive.google.com/file/d/1YASVkhbwLadwsHq3tuSlJZWRklMttItK/view?usp=sharing>
> <drive.google.com/file/d/1vjarr_s4miZQqaDZQY6ztNMxMsdVAloH/view?usp=sharing>
>
>
> regards, jr.

So I did the rendering on my phone, first I simulated the physics in the files
frame1.inc,
frame2.inc,...frame99.inc
And then I created a scene that reads this.
And bro, the physics are in the .inc format, that's cool :]

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Bullet physics engine test [113 days 21 hours and 28 minutes ago]

Wed, 22 Apr 2026 16:56:49 GMT

On 20/04/2026 14:25, Kenneth wrote:
> Very cool!
> 
> I have always wanted to play with this 'bullet physics' code in POV-ray, but I
> have no idea how to get it to run in MS Windows, or if it is even available in a
> 'Windows friendly' form. (I am not a C/C++ programmer.)
> 
> Has anyone in the POV-ray community ever built a version that will run? I seem
> to vaguely remember *someone* doing that in the past...or maybe it was just for
> Linux/Unix?
> 
> 

Some interesting links:

<http://jeberger.free.fr/povray/cloth/cloth.html>
<https://www.imagico.de/pov/tools_en.php>



-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Would you like a drink? [113 days 21 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Wed, 22 Apr 2026 16:44:41 GMT

On 20/04/2026 16:52, Mr wrote:
> 
> For smoked oak wood, the following page shows low reflectivity but the
> interaction with bitmap is hard to assign. Maybe start with a grey material to
> get the shininess right...?
> https://gustafs.com/knowledge-hub/surfaces/ligt-reflection-values/
> 


Light reflectance... interesting topic.
The next step is to figure out how to implement this feature in POV-Ray.




-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[jr] Re: Bullet physics engine test [114 days 1 hour and 35 minutes ago]

Wed, 22 Apr 2026 12:50:01 GMT

hi,

"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> >
> > I found the attached 2003 code by Alain Ducharme ...
> Many thanks! I plan to play around with it.
> In looking through some of Alain D's code, I see that he uses... quaternions.
> Very cool! (I'm attempting to learn and understand the basics of their use...
> and to re-learn the concepts of imaginary/complex numbers in general. I have
> never used any of that stuff in 'real life', not since my university days eons
> ago.)

good.  (and yes, Alain's code is well "above my pay grade", guessing BE will rub
his hands in glee.. :-))

> Your animation examples are really neat too; thanks for those as well.

they're simply two of Alain's files, as you will see.

> Could you post a link to TdG's archive(s)? I thought I had that somewhere, but
> nope :-(

unsurprising :-), unpublished as yet.  Thomas is in the middle of working out
"representation" and such, keep an eye on his wiki page in the meantime.

regards, jr.

[Kenneth] Re: Some times I just want to play !? [114 days 1 hour and 35 minutes ago]

Wed, 22 Apr 2026 12:50:00 GMT

"Cousin Ricky" <rickysttATyahooDOTcom> wrote:
>
> Weird that the preview thumbnail is a different color than the full image.  I
> suspect it is due to rendering without any assumed_gamma.

I see the same thing.
I think it has to do with how the thumbnail preview here treats a .png image's
encoded gamma... if it is somehow not encoded correctly. I agree with your
suspicion. I noticed this a long time ago, when I was using an *old* version of
Photoshop that encoded png's with the wrong gamma. When I uploaded them to the
newsgroups, the previews looked...wrong. Somehow, the full-size image corrects
for this (when viewed in Firefox's web browser here), or just ignores the png's
gamma altogether and substitutes the correct value.

As a 'safety measure', I try to upload only jpeg's here, which never seem to
show this odd problem. I am probably being overly-cautious now with current
standardized software, but I learned the hard way not to trust png's for
posting. :-/

[Kenneth] Re: Bullet physics engine test [114 days 2 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Wed, 22 Apr 2026 12:15:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> I found the attached 2003 code by Alain Ducharme in TdG's (extensive) archives,
> a "Povray rigid ball dynamics simulator"...

Many thanks! I plan to play around with it.

In looking through some of Alain D's code, I see that he uses... quaternions.
Very cool! (I'm attempting to learn and understand the basics of their use...
and to re-learn the concepts of imaginary/complex numbers in general. I have
never used any of that stuff in 'real life', not since my university days eons
ago.)

Your animation examples are really neat too; thanks for those as well.

------
Could you post a link to TdG's archive(s)? I thought I had that somewhere, but
nope :-(

[Mr] Re: U.S. Virgin Islands 4/20 flag [115 days 4 hours ago]

Tue, 21 Apr 2026 10:25:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> Happy 4/20!
>
> The flag is all procedural.  The drug-free edition is at
>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_States_Virgin_Islands

The parts pertaining to what I guess are your marcos are looking so good ! (the
metal mast and streaked specular flare/bloom ...Real eye candy! Thanks for
working on those !

[jr] Re: U.S. Virgin Islands 4/20 flag [115 days 16 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Mon, 20 Apr 2026 21:35:00 GMT

hi,

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> Happy 4/20!

it was a rather mixed day, else place ;-).

> The flag is all procedural.  The drug-free edition is at
>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_States_Virgin_Islands

"three lids a day keeps the doctor away" </grin>.

regards, jr.

[Cousin Ricky] U.S. Virgin Islands 4/20 flag [115 days 18 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Mon, 20 Apr 2026 20:08:49 GMT

Happy 4/20!

The flag is all procedural.  The drug-free edition is at
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_States_Virgin_Islands

[Mr] Re: Would you like a drink? [115 days 23 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Mon, 20 Apr 2026 14:55:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> On 11/02/2026 11:04, kurtz le pirate wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > One or more suggestions for further improvement ?
> >
> >
>
> A few improvements. I'm working on it little by little.
>
> The surface of the liquid isn't flat anymore, but it doesn't make much
> of a difference. A new texture for the desk.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> kurtz le pirate
> compagnie de la banquise

Yes this liquid is much more nuanced and appealing. The scale of the new wood
texture seems too small : it features screws that we would expect to also appear
in a normal bumb, plus not reveal to repeat as much if bigger.

For smoked oak wood, the following page shows low reflectivity but the
interaction with bitmap is hard to assign. Maybe start with a grey material to
get the shininess right...?
https://gustafs.com/knowledge-hub/surfaces/ligt-reflection-values/

[jr] Re: Bullet physics engine test [115 days 23 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Mon, 20 Apr 2026 14:35:00 GMT

hi,

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> just a small demonstration .;]

very nice.  (and yes, (many) questions :-) like Leroy's, was it rendered on the
phone ?)

"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Very cool!
>
> I have always wanted to play with this 'bullet physics' code in POV-ray, but I
> have no idea how to get it to run in MS Windows, or if it is even available in a
> 'Windows friendly' form. (I am not a C/C++ programmer.)
>
> Has anyone in the POV-ray community ever built a version that will run? I seem
> to vaguely remember *someone* doing that in the past...or maybe it was just for
> Linux/Unix?

I found the attached 2003 code by Alain Ducharme in TdG's (extensive) archives,
a "Povray rigid ball dynamics simulator", not quite "bullet physics" but...  all
in SDL, no other languages needed; I'm sure that there will be other code, 30+
years is a long time.  there is no explicit mention of licensing, but the author
writes "in the meantime, you may wish to collapse the required macros into your
main SimBall .pov files" -- sounds "permissive".  two (quickly rendered :-))
animations AD wrote:
<drive.google.com/file/d/1YASVkhbwLadwsHq3tuSlJZWRklMttItK/view?usp=sharing>
<drive.google.com/file/d/1vjarr_s4miZQqaDZQY6ztNMxMsdVAloH/view?usp=sharing>

regards, jr.

[Kenneth] Re: Bullet physics engine test [116 days 1 hour and 55 minutes ago]

Mon, 20 Apr 2026 12:30:00 GMT

Very cool!

I have always wanted to play with this 'bullet physics' code in POV-ray, but I
have no idea how to get it to run in MS Windows, or if it is even available in a
'Windows friendly' form. (I am not a C/C++ programmer.)

Has anyone in the POV-ray community ever built a version that will run? I seem
to vaguely remember *someone* doing that in the past...or maybe it was just for
Linux/Unix?

[Mr] Re: Light bleeding: adding halos to the spikes [116 days 3 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:55:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> ...

Did you think about abusing the rainbow primitive for this effect?

(I assume you did find this discussion with the same attempt in your search :
https://news.povray.org/povray.general/thread/%3C3BE87585.572DA5DB%40scifi-fantasy.com%3E/?ttop=445854&toff=6650)

[Mr] Re: Light bleeding: adding halos to the spikes [116 days 3 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:50:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> I have been working on my light bleeding code, adding a circular halo to
> the diffraction spikes.  But while the added glow (Spikiness 0.25) looks
> a lot better, it is dreadfully slow, taking 31 minutes for a 512 x 256
> render, versus 1.5 minutes for the spikes alone (Spikiness 1.00).  The
> issue is that halos scale with the square of the radius, while spikes
> scale linearly.
>
> Looks like I'll be investigating Sam's technique to see if I can work
> out a hybrid that won't take forever.  Sam's lb7b allows me to add my
> own diffraction pattern, while my idea has been to bleed only color
> channels in excess of 1.0.
>
> Or, I could attempt to upgrade Nathan Kopp or Chris Colefax to POV-Ray
> 3.7/3.8, but I would rather not have to track light sources--especially
> since this does not account for reflections and highlights.
>
> I'm just noticing another lens flare library on my computer, credited to
> Zeger Knaepen in my notes, though his name is not in the code anywhere.

Yes, great work indeed, the pursue is worth it: looking much more realistic with
halo.

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Light bleeding: adding halos to the spikes [116 days 4 hours and 3 minutes ago]

Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:21:20 GMT

On 19/04/2026 22:09, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> ...
> 
> I'm just noticing another lens flare library on my computer, credited to
> Zeger Knaepen in my notes, though his name is not in the code anywhere.

In fact, there are several examples on Zeger Knaepen's website... but no 
code found. <https://povplace.com/index.php?t=3>

In any case, great work on these halos and spikes.

-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Some times I just want to play !? [116 days 17 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Sun, 19 Apr 2026 20:35:00 GMT

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> plane{z,-.5 pigment{granite scale 50}finish{reflection.5 ambient 2}}
> plane{z,.1 pigment{rgbf<.9,.5,.1,.9>}}
> plane{z,1 normal{wood 5}finish{reflection.7}}

Weird that the preview thumbnail is a different color than the full image.  I
suspect it is due to rendering without any assumed_gamma.

[Cousin Ricky] Light bleeding: adding halos to the spikes [116 days 18 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Sun, 19 Apr 2026 20:09:52 GMT

I have been working on my light bleeding code, adding a circular halo to
the diffraction spikes.  But while the added glow (Spikiness 0.25) looks
a lot better, it is dreadfully slow, taking 31 minutes for a 512 x 256
render, versus 1.5 minutes for the spikes alone (Spikiness 1.00).  The
issue is that halos scale with the square of the radius, while spikes
scale linearly.

Looks like I'll be investigating Sam's technique to see if I can work
out a hybrid that won't take forever.  Sam's lb7b allows me to add my
own diffraction pattern, while my idea has been to bleed only color
channels in excess of 1.0.

Or, I could attempt to upgrade Nathan Kopp or Chris Colefax to POV-Ray
3.7/3.8, but I would rather not have to track light sources--especially
since this does not account for reflections and highlights.

I'm just noticing another lens flare library on my computer, credited to
Zeger Knaepen in my notes, though his name is not in the code anywhere.

[Kenneth] anaglyph animation of flying car [116 days 18 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Sun, 19 Apr 2026 20:05:01 GMT

For this one, I used my humorous 'bulldog police car' that I made years ago--
which seemed like a good subject for an anaglyph.

WARNING: Be careful that it doesn't put-out your eye! ;-)

[Leroy] Some times I just want to play !? [116 days 19 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Sun, 19 Apr 2026 18:45:00 GMT

Some times I just want to play! I go through my old files looking for something
to play with. I love running old code that took a long time to run on my old
system. Now it's lighten fast! Any way I ran into this file, one of many wrote
for the Shortest Code Contest. And I had to share it.

plane{z,-.5 pigment{granite scale 50}finish{reflection.5 ambient 2}}
plane{z,.1 pigment{rgbf<.9,.5,.1,.9>}}
plane{z,1 normal{wood 5}finish{reflection.7}}


 That's it!
Have Fun!

[Leroy] Re: Bullet physics engine test [116 days 20 hours ago]

Sun, 19 Apr 2026 18:25:00 GMT

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> just a small demonstration .;]

Cool! Wondering how long to parse & render it?

Have Fun!

[yesbird] Re: Would you like a drink? [116 days 20 hours and 8 minutes ago]

Sun, 19 Apr 2026 18:16:48 GMT

On 19/04/2026 18:49, kurtz le pirate wrote:
> The surface of the liquid isn't flat anymore, but it doesn't make much 
> of a difference. A new texture for the desk.
>

Much better and natural now, I see the coaster is also improved.
--
YB

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Would you like a drink? [116 days 22 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Sun, 19 Apr 2026 15:50:01 GMT

On 11/02/2026 11:04, kurtz le pirate wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> One or more suggestions for further improvement ?
> 
> 

A few improvements. I'm working on it little by little.

The surface of the liquid isn't flat anymore, but it doesn't make much 
of a difference. A new texture for the desk.

-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Cossack ] Bullet physics engine test [116 days 23 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Sun, 19 Apr 2026 14:35:01 GMT

just a small demonstration .;]

[Bald Eagle] photorealism ray-tracing huamin wang [120 days 19 hours ago]

Wed, 15 Apr 2026 19:25:00 GMT

Yep.

https://www.slideserve.com/rollin/photorealism-ray-tracing-huamin-wang-whmin-cc-gatech-georgia-tech-nov-11-2008

:D

[Bald Eagle] Re: Practical Stargate kawoosh effect ideas [121 days 1 hour and 20 minutes ago]

Wed, 15 Apr 2026 13:05:00 GMT

"Nekar Xenos" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Today I went down the rabbit hole of Is It Possible To Recreate The Stargate
> Kawoosh theoretically as a practical effect?

I think you need to get in contact with THIS guy . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTUgMDQaR8E


- BE

[Bald Eagle] Re: POV-Ray Origins [121 days 1 hour and 45 minutes ago]

Wed, 15 Apr 2026 12:40:00 GMT

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Have been using POV-Ray for the past 30 years.

You're the bullet physics playground guy!

Hello - nice to see you here.  :)

- BE

[koppi] Re: POV-Ray Origins [121 days 16 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Apr 2026 21:50:00 GMT

Have been using POV-Ray for the past 30 years.

[Clarence1898] Re: Orrery WIP Part 1 [122 days 1 hour and 15 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Apr 2026 13:10:00 GMT

"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> [I happen to be working on an animation of my own right now.]
>
> Your 'wip 2' (3840x2160 downsized to 640 X 360) looks *much* better than your
> first wip. So the original problem was not due to the MPEG compression your
> used-- I checked both videos' 'bit rates', and wip 2 is even more compressed,
> slightly. But it still looks quite nice.
>
> I made a screenshot from your wip 1 (see attached.) The window and some other
> parts show 'jaggies'-- as if no antialiasing was used at all, which is quite
> strange. I would have assumed that your aa2 method would have completely
> eliminated those.
>
> Do you still have your original 640 X 360 animation renders from wip 1? Maybe
> take a look at some of those, to see if the jaggies are present there.
>
> As B.E. said, a possible problem is that your scene has very sharp narrow lines
> and tiny details, which can sometimes react badly to aa. (You mentioned that you
> turned off your aa jitter. As a suggestion, try using aa method 1 with a setting
> of zero, and turn ON the jitter. Who knows, it might help! I am currently using
> that set-up, and the final MPEG animation result looks fine to me.)

I don't have any of the original renders, I don't keep them around very long.  I
have been experimenting with various anti-alias options yesterday.  The problem
is definitely due to sharp narrow lines and tiny details.  More than any other
animation I have ever done.  I had never needed to use Antialias_Depth before so
I didn't think to use it. When I added Antialias_Depth it has definitely
improved.  I have attached the last test using +am1 +r7.  Because it is shooting
more rays per pixel it does take longer. With a depth of 1 it take 20 minute,
with 7 it goes up to 90 minutes.   A side effect has been a reduction of the
animation size with higher depth.  With a depth of 1 it was 4.6M,  with a depth
of 7 it was 2.0M. So I should be able to render at a higher resolution.  It
seems that rendering at higher depth is kind of equivalent to rendering at
higher resolution then scaling down. Though maybe without as much overhead. In
both you are shooting more rays through each pixel.  I'm going to try using +am2
next to see what that does.

Clarence

[Kenneth] Re: Orrery WIP Part 1 [122 days 6 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Tue, 14 Apr 2026 08:10:00 GMT

[I happen to be working on an animation of my own right now.]

Your 'wip 2' (3840x2160 downsized to 640 X 360) looks *much* better than your
first wip. So the original problem was not due to the MPEG compression your
used-- I checked both videos' 'bit rates', and wip 2 is even more compressed,
slightly. But it still looks quite nice.

I made a screenshot from your wip 1 (see attached.) The window and some other
parts show 'jaggies'-- as if no antialiasing was used at all, which is quite
strange. I would have assumed that your aa2 method would have completely
eliminated those.

Do you still have your original 640 X 360 animation renders from wip 1? Maybe
take a look at some of those, to see if the jaggies are present there.

As B.E. said, a possible problem is that your scene has very sharp narrow lines
and tiny details, which can sometimes react badly to aa. (You mentioned that you
turned off your aa jitter. As a suggestion, try using aa method 1 with a setting
of zero, and turn ON the jitter. Who knows, it might help! I am currently using
that set-up, and the final MPEG animation result looks fine to me.)

[yesbird] Re: Procedural Methods for Two-Dimensional Textu... [122 days 14 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Apr 2026 23:40:39 GMT

On 14/04/2026 00:13, yesbird wrote:
> Thanks so much for Marbling - this is very close to what I am looking
> for, also would like to find the methods of generation the following
> structures: https://aleksandrajovanic.com/gm-gen-math/

And found them now:
https://paulbourke.net/fractals/clifford/
https://paulbourke.net/fractals/peterdejong/
-- 
YB

[yesbird] Re: Procedural Methods for Two-Dimensional Textu... [122 days 17 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Apr 2026 21:13:31 GMT

On 13/04/2026 22:59, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Hmm.
> Not to say any of this is directly applicable, but maybe check out "Mathematical
> marbling"
> 
> https://people.csail.mit.edu/jaffer/Marbling/
> 
> Especially:  https://people.csail.mit.edu/jaffer/Marbling/stroke.pdf
> 
> And skim through Daniel Schiffman's _The Coding Train_ youtube channel.
> He has a lot of interactive, mouse-position events in his code, and other people
> submit derivative works on his website.
> ...

Thanks so much for Marbling - this is very close to what I am looking
for, also would like to find the methods of generation the following
structures: https://aleksandrajovanic.com/gm-gen-math/
-- 
YB

[Bald Eagle] Re: Procedural Methods for Two-Dimensional Textu... [122 days 18 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Apr 2026 20:00:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:

> In Rebelle API I am limited to vector
> operations of brush movement (press, move, release):
>
https://www.escapemotions.com/products/rebelle/motionio_doc/reference/json_events_reference/

Hmm.
Not to say any of this is directly applicable, but maybe check out "Mathematical
marbling"

https://people.csail.mit.edu/jaffer/Marbling/

Especially:  https://people.csail.mit.edu/jaffer/Marbling/stroke.pdf

And skim through Daniel Schiffman's _The Coding Train_ youtube channel.
He has a lot of interactive, mouse-position events in his code, and other people
submit derivative works on his website.

Maybe you could have a collection of Convolution Kernels that you could drag
across an image with the mouse.
Barrel/pincushion optical effect
Color discretization
etc

- BW

[yesbird] Re: Procedural Methods for Two-Dimensional Textu... [122 days 19 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Apr 2026 19:13:21 GMT

On 13/04/2026 19:42, Bald Eagle wrote:
> I've come across papers like this before, and have suggested doing similar
> studies and experiments.
> 
> You'll probably enjoy:
> 
>
https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3C5435dc14@news.povray.org%3E/
> 
>
https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.animations/thread/%3C5437a2da%241%40news.povray.org%3E/
> 
> One approach might be to use combinatiorics or L-systems to iteratively
> construct non-trivial patterns from the available keywords in the hierarchy.
> ...

Thanks for these links, Bill, the trick is interesting. I am already
using L-Systems in my extension and guess that cellular automata can
give good results also. In Rebelle API I am limited to vector
operations of brush movement (press, move, release):
https://www.escapemotions.com/products/rebelle/motionio_doc/reference/json_events_reference/

and all raster-based diffusion effects can be applied later.
This is the reason why I am prefer contour-based patterns in my
investigations.
--
YB

[Bald Eagle] Re: Procedural Methods for Two-Dimensional Textu... [122 days 21 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Apr 2026 16:45:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:

> and while looking for interesting ideas like pattern generation, I found
> this paper (attached), that might be a source for additional POV-Ray
> modules.

I've come across papers like this before, and have suggested doing similar
studies and experiments.

You'll probably enjoy:

https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3C5435dc14@news.povray.org%3E/

https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.animations/thread/%3C5437a2da%241%40news.povray.org%3E/

One approach might be to use combinatiorics or L-systems to iteratively
construct non-trivial patterns from the available keywords in the hierarchy.

Set everything up, run an animation of 1-10k frames, and see what pops out.
Have POV-Ray export the list of settings/features/parameters as a .txt file or
..inc file of the exact texture it produces for that frame.

Then it would be easy to scroll through a list of thumbnail images and pick out
the ones that are interesting enough for further study and improvement.

Time-dependent patterns like reaction-diffusion hold really rich promise, but
would have to be evaluated individually to see at what time-point a "good"
pattern emerges.  It's also quite sensitive to initial values.

An archaeological approach might yield interesting results - have a bot scan for
pigments and textures and render 2D and 3D representations of them.  There's 30
years of stuff out there, especially the IRTC.

- BE

[yesbird] Procedural Methods for Two-Dimensional Texture G... [122 days 23 hours and 38 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Apr 2026 14:46:27 GMT

Greetings !

I am working now on extension to this digital painting software:
https://www.escapemotions.com/products/rebelle/about

and while looking for interesting ideas like pattern generation, I found
this paper (attached), that might be a source for additional POV-Ray
modules.
--
YB

[Bald Eagle] Re: Orrery WIP Part 1 [122 days 23 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Apr 2026 14:40:00 GMT

"Clarence1898" <dle### [at] comcastnet> wrote:

> Wow.  Thanks for all the information.  It will take me a while to digest all of
> this.

You and me both.

> It all looks very interesting.

There is just SO much out there to learn.
Just look at all of the fun that we have coloring tiny little squares on a
screen.

> I'll probably start with examining
> anti-aliasing closer.

No worries.
Maybe the flickering on the checkerboard could be eliminated using a smooth-step
kind of transition between squares rather than a discontinuous jump.
Something along the lines of:
https://news.povray.org/web.60888d70cfb077e41f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60VoL-F-jIQ&t=31s

Then maybe you can change your geometry from CSG to a sort of blobbed
isosurface. (like on the doors)
http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3Cweb.5d4b7ce3a683fa3a4eec112d0%40news.povray.org%3E/
Or maybe just using rounded boxes would help some - I really don't know.
Area light for softer shadows?

I'd do highly stripped-down versions of the animation to investigate what
remediates the problematic parts of the animation so that you can get quick
answers without rendering _everything_.

> Again thank you very much.

Of course - I like to think that if we can assemble a group to offer
constructive criticism and helpful suggestions, that we can ALL benefit and
complete a lot more projects in a timely manner.

- BE

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Arcade Controller Box [123 days and 19 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Apr 2026 14:05:49 GMT

On 08/04/2026 20:51, Dave Blandston wrote:
> Render twice, cut once!

Good potential.


-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Clarence1898] Re: Orrery WIP Part 1 [123 days and 25 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Apr 2026 14:00:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Clarence1898" <dle### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > I've made a few minor changes to smooth the camera path.  I'm still unhappy with
> > the flickering.  I've read a few articles, but the only methods that apply to
> > povray was to disable jitter(which is already disabled), increase anti-aliasing,
> > render at larger resolution then downscale, and reduce detail. There are 1501
> > frames in the animation.  At that size the resolution that fits within the 5M
> > post limit is 640x360. Since I distribute the renders across 3 PCs I made sure
> > that all renders are done on the same environment. After a little experimenting
> > with anti-aliasing, the best result was using +a0.0 +am2. I tried 3 resolutions:
> > 640x360, 1920x1080, and 3840x2160, downsizing the latter to 640x360.  The
> > 640x360 version flickering is pretty bad.  the 1920x1080 is better but still not
> > great.  The 3840x2160 is quite a bit better but does not eliminate the flicker.
> > The main problem with rendering at higher resolution and then downscaling is a
> > dramatic increase in render time.  The 640x360 takes under 20 minutes, 1920x1080
> > just under 2 hours, 3840x2160 over 7 hours.  Before reducing detail are there
> > any other suggestions I can try?  I have posted the 640x360 version with this
> > post.  I'll post the downscaled 3840x2160 version in the following post.
>
> Well Boss, I'm not going to say that I understand exactly what the problem is,
> but I will throw a few things out there.
>
> fwidth.  Look it up, play with it.  It's a way to do some amazing things.
> I you find my spiral pattern, it's only 6 lines of code.
> But it doesn't show anything recognizable without that fwidth function.
> And then it's amazing.
>
> Read this article:
> https://bgolus.medium.com/the-best-darn-grid-shader-yet-727f9278b9d8
>
> I'm not saying that it's going to totally fix your problem, but there's a lot
> there for serious POV-Rayers to think about and benefit from.
>
> Perhaps use some different ant-aliasing settings, and search for comments by
> Alain and clipka.  doing a very deep, fine antialiasing might be better and
> faster than doing huge time-consuming renders and then shrinking them down.
> I have opined in the past that we should have some nice antialiasing macros to
> help sort out all of the different modes and options.   Maybe you can look into
> coding a first draft.
>
> ffmpeg has some great settings for chopping down the file size yet keeping the
> video quality the same.
>
> Look into mip-mapping.  Don't know exactly what it is, or how to use it, or if
> we can do that in POV-Ray.
> I do believe that Martijn Steinrucker of Art Of Code youtube channel might cover
> it in his "The Drive Home" series
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrxZ4AZPdOQ
>
> Also:
> https://alvyray.com/Memos/CG/Microsoft/6_pixel.pdf
>
> In summary, I think that there must definitely be a [good] way to get rid of
> your flickering - we just need to find out what it is.
>
> - BE

Wow.  Thanks for all the information.  It will take me a while to digest all of
this.  It all looks very interesting.  I'll probably start with examining
anti-aliasing closer.  Again thank you very much.

Clarence.

[Clarence1898] Re: Orrery WIP Part 1 [123 days and 30 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Apr 2026 13:55:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Clarence1898" <dle### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > I've made a few minor changes to smooth the camera path.  I'm still unhappy with
> > the flickering. ...
>
> out of interest, the camera path is spline-based ?  (one, or several ?)  do you
> base movement on the clock, or use frame_number ?
>
>
> regards, jr.

The location is based on one spline, the lookat point is base on a second
spline.  Both are based on the clock.  When the camera enters earth orbit it
changes to a spiral path around it.

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Post something [123 days 4 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Apr 2026 10:20:09 GMT

My Chladni patterns inspired from Ingo

--- sdl ----------------------------------------------------------------
camera {
  orthographic
  location <0,0,-1>
  look_at 0
  right x*image_width/image_height
  }

light_source {
  <0,0,-100>
  color rgb 1
  }

#declare fnChladni = function(x,y,z,_n,_m,_l) {
  cos(_n*pi*x/_l)*cos(_m*pi*y/_l) - cos(_m*pi*x/_l)*cos(_n*pi*y/_l)
  }

#declare n = 7; // number of curves
#declare d = 1/(n+1); // gap
#declare ep = 0.008; // line thickness

#declare Col0 = rgb 0; // first color
#declare Col1 = rgb 1; // second color

#declare CMap = color_map {
  [0 Col0 ]
  #declare i = 1;
  #while ( i < n+1 )
   #declare x0 = i*d-ep;
   #declare x1 = i*d+ep;
   [ x0 Col0 ]
   [ x0 Col1 ]
   [ x1 Col1 ]
   [ x1 Col0 ]
   #declare i = i + 1;
  #end
  [ 1 Col0 ]
  }

// Chladni params
#declare m = 5;
#declare n = 13;
#declare l = 0.6;

plane {
  z, 0
  texture {
   pigment {
    function { fnChladni(x,y,z,n,m,l) }
    color_map { CMap }
    }
   }
  }

--- sdl ----------------------------------------------------------------


-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[jr] Re: Orrery WIP Part 1 [123 days 9 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Mon, 13 Apr 2026 04:30:00 GMT

hi,

"Clarence1898" <dle### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> I've made a few minor changes to smooth the camera path.  I'm still unhappy with
> the flickering. ...

out of interest, the camera path is spline-based ?  (one, or several ?)  do you
base movement on the clock, or use frame_number ?

regards, jr.

[Bald Eagle] Re: Orrery WIP Part 1 [123 days 16 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Sun, 12 Apr 2026 22:15:00 GMT

"Clarence1898" <dle### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> I've made a few minor changes to smooth the camera path.  I'm still unhappy with
> the flickering.  I've read a few articles, but the only methods that apply to
> povray was to disable jitter(which is already disabled), increase anti-aliasing,
> render at larger resolution then downscale, and reduce detail. There are 1501
> frames in the animation.  At that size the resolution that fits within the 5M
> post limit is 640x360. Since I distribute the renders across 3 PCs I made sure
> that all renders are done on the same environment. After a little experimenting
> with anti-aliasing, the best result was using +a0.0 +am2. I tried 3 resolutions:
> 640x360, 1920x1080, and 3840x2160, downsizing the latter to 640x360.  The
> 640x360 version flickering is pretty bad.  the 1920x1080 is better but still not
> great.  The 3840x2160 is quite a bit better but does not eliminate the flicker.
> The main problem with rendering at higher resolution and then downscaling is a
> dramatic increase in render time.  The 640x360 takes under 20 minutes, 1920x1080
> just under 2 hours, 3840x2160 over 7 hours.  Before reducing detail are there
> any other suggestions I can try?  I have posted the 640x360 version with this
> post.  I'll post the downscaled 3840x2160 version in the following post.

Well Boss, I'm not going to say that I understand exactly what the problem is,
but I will throw a few things out there.

fwidth.  Look it up, play with it.  It's a way to do some amazing things.
I you find my spiral pattern, it's only 6 lines of code.
But it doesn't show anything recognizable without that fwidth function.
And then it's amazing.

Read this article:
https://bgolus.medium.com/the-best-darn-grid-shader-yet-727f9278b9d8

I'm not saying that it's going to totally fix your problem, but there's a lot
there for serious POV-Rayers to think about and benefit from.

Perhaps use some different ant-aliasing settings, and search for comments by
Alain and clipka.  doing a very deep, fine antialiasing might be better and
faster than doing huge time-consuming renders and then shrinking them down.
I have opined in the past that we should have some nice antialiasing macros to
help sort out all of the different modes and options.   Maybe you can look into
coding a first draft.

ffmpeg has some great settings for chopping down the file size yet keeping the
video quality the same.

Look into mip-mapping.  Don't know exactly what it is, or how to use it, or if
we can do that in POV-Ray.
I do believe that Martijn Steinrucker of Art Of Code youtube channel might cover
it in his "The Drive Home" series

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrxZ4AZPdOQ

Also:
https://alvyray.com/Memos/CG/Microsoft/6_pixel.pdf

In summary, I think that there must definitely be a [good] way to get rid of
your flickering - we just need to find out what it is.

- BE

[Clarence1898] Orrery WIP Part 2 [123 days 18 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Sun, 12 Apr 2026 19:50:02 GMT

Here is the 3840x2160 image scaled to 640x360

[Clarence1898] Orrery WIP Part 1 [123 days 18 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Sun, 12 Apr 2026 19:50:01 GMT

I've made a few minor changes to smooth the camera path.  I'm still unhappy with
the flickering.  I've read a few articles, but the only methods that apply to
povray was to disable jitter(which is already disabled), increase anti-aliasing,
render at larger resolution then downscale, and reduce detail. There are 1501
frames in the animation.  At that size the resolution that fits within the 5M
post limit is 640x360. Since I distribute the renders across 3 PCs I made sure
that all renders are done on the same environment. After a little experimenting
with anti-aliasing, the best result was using +a0.0 +am2. I tried 3 resolutions:
640x360, 1920x1080, and 3840x2160, downsizing the latter to 640x360.  The
640x360 version flickering is pretty bad.  the 1920x1080 is better but still not
great.  The 3840x2160 is quite a bit better but does not eliminate the flicker.
The main problem with rendering at higher resolution and then downscaling is a
dramatic increase in render time.  The 640x360 takes under 20 minutes, 1920x1080
just under 2 hours, 3840x2160 over 7 hours.  Before reducing detail are there
any other suggestions I can try?  I have posted the 640x360 version with this
post.  I'll post the downscaled 3840x2160 version in the following post.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Post something [123 days 23 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Sun, 12 Apr 2026 14:30:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> I'm posting this here as a proxy for the author, because I just stumbled across
> it and think it's AWESOME.
>
> I'm archiving it at home once I get network access restored.
>
> https://www.geocities.ws/povstairs/

Good news: this library is also in the Object Collection.  An updated version
will reappear on that server when it is restored.  In the meantime, those having
trouble with the above website can access the files at:

https://github.com/LeForgeron/PovContributions/tree/master/staircase/chrisb%202.0

As for the author, he was the original administrator of the Object Collection,
and he disappeared sometime in late 2009.

[ingo] Re: Post something [125 days 6 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Sat, 11 Apr 2026 08:16:15 GMT

Some ideas regarding Chladni. Untested code in Nim (sorry) as it has to 
fit into my pattern and audio synthesis stuff, but it should not be to 
complex to convert to POV-Ray (I'm tempted).

for a rectangulare plate:

proc chladniRect*(ampA, ampB, m, n, Lx, Ly: float): Pattern =
   proc fn(x, y, z: float): float =
     ampA * sin(PI * m * x / Lx) * sin(PI * n * y / Ly) +
     ampB * sin(PI * n * x / Lx) * sin(PI * m * y / Ly)
   initPattern(fn)


proc chladniRectFreq*(m, n, Lx, Ly, waveSpeed: float): float =
   (waveSpeed / 2.0) * sqrt((m/Lx)*(m/Lx) + (n/Ly)*(n/Ly))

type
   PlateMaterial* = object
     E:   float    # Young's modulus (Pa) - stiffness
     rho: float    # density (kg/mÂ³)
     nu:  float    # Poisson's ratio - lateral contraction
     h:   float    # thickness (m)

const
   Steel* = PlateMaterial(
     E: 200e9, rho: 7800.0, nu: 0.28, h: 0.001
   )

   Aluminium* = PlateMaterial(
     E: 70e9, rho: 2700.0, nu: 0.33, h: 0.001
   )

   Glass* = PlateMaterial(
     E: 70e9, rho: 2500.0, nu: 0.23, h: 0.001
   )

   Wood* = PlateMaterial(          # spruce, along grain
     E: 12e9, rho: 450.0,  nu: 0.35, h: 0.003
   )

   Brass* = PlateMaterial(
     E: 100e9, rho: 8500.0, nu: 0.35, h: 0.001
   )


proc waveSpeed*(mat: PlateMaterial): float =
   ## Flexural wave speed in thin plate
   let B = mat.E * mat.h * mat.h * mat.h /
           (12.0 * (1.0 - mat.nu * mat.nu))    # bending stiffness
   let rhoH = mat.rho * mat.h                  # mass per unit area
   sqrt(B / rhoH)                              # simplified phase velocity


now the other way around:
f_mn = (c / 2) * sqrt((m/Lx)^2 + (n/Ly)^2)
invert
(2f/c)Â² = (m/Lx)^ + (n/Ly)^

now finde modes at frequency
loop over modes, get chladni and sum
this should then be convered to a spectrogram and create the sound from 
that.

It can be extended to 3d room modes so one can simulate small room 
acoustics (below Schroeder freq) and walk trough a .df3 media room that 
show the soundfield.

ingo

[Ilya Razmanov] Re: SVG Recognized colors [125 days 7 hours and 17 minutes ago]

Sat, 11 Apr 2026 07:07:41 GMT

On 10.04.2026 22:06, Bald Eagle wrote:

> Yes, that's always how the seed gets planted.
> Now it's time to act like a real computer programmer

Fortunately, I'm not a programmer, I'm only trying to make computers do 
what I want.

Unfortunately, sometimes it requires programming.

Well, it seems that currently people start to prefer AI, but I'm an old 
Soviet man, so my first question always is "and who is officially 
responsible for this?" Since AI does not have a butt I can kick, it 
can't be held responsible for anything, therefore I don't trust it.

>> but
>> well, I definitely will turn it into complete madness, making things
>> controlled not by just source colors but coordinates and stuff).
> 
> Code on, brother.
> Make it so!

Well, old people like me may remember Photoshop plugins like Xaos Tools 
or MS Impressionist, which were mapping 2D bitmap "brushstrokes" over 
image, varying brush size and direction to simulate painting. Surely, my 
old idea, resulted in POV-Ray Mosaic, was quite obvious: why don't we 
map 3D objects?

Unfortunately, I was having problems even with first version - how do I 
make all this controllable in some way humans can understand? And, since 
new version is about adding more control, it's giving me more problems 
with my memory, "what is this and why I did this?"

-- 
Ilyich the Toad
https://dnyarri.github.io/

[Bald Eagle] Re: SVG Recognized colors [125 days 19 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Fri, 10 Apr 2026 19:10:00 GMT

Ilya Razmanov <ily### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> Hey, all I wanted is making Python translate from "what they wrote at
> W3C" to "what I can directly import in POV-Ray, yet call it official
> colors right from W3C".

Yes, that's always how the seed gets planted.
Now it's time to act like a real computer programmer and implement "scope
creep."
:D

> > Also, I recall seeing some very cool python/povray projects that you might enjoy
> > if you search for them.
>
> Are you trying to say that any python/povray project may be more cool
> than mine?!

Only if such a transparent lie spurs you to ensure that no other python/povray
project COULD be cooler, due to your massive, monomaniacal overkill.

> since POV‑Ray does not seem to support any elegant array unpacking,

Natively it doesn't, but I've done some work on that (somewhere) and I think
Leroy has as well.  Please note what you want, and maybe we've written it or
will get around to doing so "soon".

>but
> well, I definitely will turn it into complete madness, making things
> controlled not by just source colors but coordinates and stuff).

Code on, brother.
Make it so!

-BE

[Ilya Razmanov] Re: SVG Recognized colors [125 days 19 hours and 32 minutes ago]

Fri, 10 Apr 2026 18:52:22 GMT

On 29.03.2026 16:13, Bald Eagle wrote:

> Put all of your colors into an array, and all of the names in another.
> 
> Now I can use a #for loop to cycle through the colors, do something with them,
> and just use the text as a label.

Hey, all I wanted is making Python translate from "what they wrote at 
W3C" to "what I can directly import in POV-Ray, yet call it official 
colors right from W3C".

> Also, I recall seeing some very cool python/povray projects that you might enjoy
> if you search for them.

Are you trying to say that any python/povray project may be more cool 
than mine?! And you are saying so right when I updated my img2mesh, and 
have a very weird plans of upgrading my POVâ€‘Ray Mosaic to version 2 
(yes, unpublished ver. 1.5 includes arrays already. Looks totally ugly, 
since POVâ€‘Ray does not seem to support any elegant array unpacking,
but 
well, I definitely will turn it into complete madness, making things 
controlled not by just source colors but coordinates and stuff).

-- 
Ilyich the Toad
https://dnyarri.github.io/

[MichaelJF] Re: Post something [125 days 19 hours and 57 minutes ago]

Fri, 10 Apr 2026 18:27:57 GMT

Am 10.04.26 um 19:06 schrieb kurtz le pirate:
> On 08/04/2026 20:39, MichaelJF wrote:
> 
>>
>> Using Firefox, I get a brief glimpse of a website displaying POV- 
>> Stairs macros, but a few seconds later Iâ€™m redirected to a porn
site. 
>> As far as I know, Geocities has been offline since 2009. Perhaps 
>> someone is trying to lure visitors to their website using old content.
>>
> 
> Neither the website nor Firefox is to blame.
> Your computer is simply infected with malware ;)
> 
> 
> 
> 
Should I switch from Ubuntu to Windows?