news.povray.org message digest

[19100] Re: So THAT's why all the interest in POV-Ray 2....

Thu, 8 Oct 2026 18:00:00 GMT

Very interesting! Slightly surreal to see that little tutorial I wrote being
adapted into a model benchmark (with some additional fixes too it seems, I
should really write an update).

> - and no, quietly substituting POV-Ray 3.7 does not count.
That could be why illum1.pov was chosen, 3.7 renders it quite differently from
2.2.

[Mr] Re: Sparrow Dead

Thu, 8 Oct 2026 12:05:00 GMT

"Cousin Ricky" <rickysttATyahooDOTcom> wrote:
> We just lost perhaps the greatest calypso singer ever, Slinger Francisco, a.k.a.
> Mighty Sparrow.  For context for this post, here are two of his songs:
>
> https://youtu.be/xmWP9PnPr7A "Sparrow Dead" addresses persistent greatly
> exaggerated rumors of his death back in the 1970s.
>
> https://youtu.be/hf7zvGQZbm8 "Saltfish" seems to be about a Caribbean salted cod
> dish--until you listen more closely.  The song was released when I was a
> pre-teen being raised Catholic in all its purity (and no, I was never abused),
> so it wasn't until my late 50s that I learned it was NOT about saltfish. ;)
> Listen to the end of the song for the epitaph.

Great use of the toolkit !
I love the shading of the stone ! this marco is yet another that should be added
to official POV-Ray ones !

[Jim Henderson] Re: So THAT's why all the interest in POV-Ray 2....

Wed, 7 Oct 2026 15:28:56 GMT

That's a great story, Chris - thanks for sharing it!


-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[yesbird] Re: Website pages not functioning.

Wed, 7 Oct 2026 12:12:13 GMT

On 23/09/2026 19:41, Chris Cason wrote:
> Currently my two top choices are Discourse (open-source and not to be 
> confused with Discord, which is a proprietary walled garden that does 
> not share information) and self-hosted XenForo with the Media Gallery 
> and Resource Manager add-ons (commercial but not expensive).
>

+ 1 for Discourse - it's very neat and convenient.
Often visiting this forum and like how it works:
https://discourse.threejs.org/
-- 
YB

[yesbird] Re: So THAT's why all the interest in POV-Ray 2....

Wed, 7 Oct 2026 11:03:41 GMT

On 07/10/2026 12:56, Chris Cason wrote:
> 
> For the last year I have been seeing lots and lots of requests in the
> logs for the version 2.2 sources, many of which were made in locations
> where it had never existed. It thought it curious but in the overall
> scheme of things was not causing problems.
> ...
Thank you, Chris, for sharing this interesting story with us.
It's very unusual use case of POV-Ray code - looking forward
for sequel. :)
--
YB

[ingo] Re: So THAT's why all the interest in POV-Ray 2....

Wed, 7 Oct 2026 11:00:00 GMT

Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
> [Related note: NNTP users please use nntp.povray.org going forward]
>
> For the last year


and you didn't send the invoice??

ingo

[Chris Cason] So THAT's why all the interest in POV-Ray 2.2 ...

Wed, 7 Oct 2026 10:02:49 GMT

[Related note: NNTP users please use nntp.povray.org going forward]

For the last year I have been seeing lots and lots of requests in the
logs for the version 2.2 sources, many of which were made in locations
where it had never existed. It thought it curious but in the overall
scheme of things was not causing problems.

I have just recently found out the actual cause of this: an AI benchmark
that tasks the agent with finding, downloading and building the version
2.2 POV-Ray source (released 1993)!

The reason I found out: a PR lodged with the authors of the benchmark
noting that their agents had been blocked from downloading since we put
the site behind Cloudflare.

I thought it a bit funny that they didn't just ask us to allow an exception
to the Cloudflare WAF rules, which I would have been happy to do since the
files are all static and put little load on the server. I have in fact now
done this - everything under the /ftp path is now except from most of the
rules (but not from rate limiting, for example) and in addition I have put
in cache overrides for the entire tree, telling Cloudflare to cache *everything*
in there, plus use cache reserve to keep it there. This means we see very
little actual traffic for those files now, since almost all requests are
satisfied by the cache.

After my initial reply to the PR I got curious as to what the actual numbers
were so did some log analysis, and the results were too good not to share :-)

If you are interested you can see my response at
     https://github.com/harbor-framework/terminal-bench-2/issues/76
but I'll also include the meat of it here.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

A follow-up, now that I finally know why povray.org spent the last year
being asked for a release from 1993. I went through our server logs, and
the numbers turned out to be too good not to share.

First, to be clear: you weren't the cause of our server trouble. From
September 2025 to August 2026, povray.org was being crawled by something
*much* bigger: a not-very-smart scraper working through residential
proxy networks.

- Scale: over 30 million distinct IP addresses hit our web and news
   servers in that time. About 15 million of them sent requests in the
   form a client uses to talk to a proxy, which no ordinary browser sends
   to a web server.

- Rotation: most addresses made only one or two requests, so no
   per-address limit could catch it.

- Manners: it ignored robots.txt and followed every link, including the
   clearly labelled "Post a reply" link on our forums, which only leads
   to a login page. Undeterred, it followed the "if at first you don't
   succeed, just ask again" school of thought: /post/ became the
   most-requested page on the server by a mile, with 30.6 million
   requests for 15.3 million different reply links, four times our home
   page.

- URL handling: it joined URLs so badly that it invented its own. That
   came to 16.5 million distinct URLs out of our links page in four
   weeks, and news thread links glued end to end.

At its worst it took the server down: a kernel panic on 5 August, the
first unplanned reboot in more than 20 years. That is what finally
pushed the sites behind Cloudflare. On 7 August, Cloudflare counted 39
million requests from 18.9 million distinct addresses in a single day;
the busiest hour averaged about 2,500/second, and peaked at an estimated
5,000/second (it appears the authors of the scraper, human or machine,
don't grasp the concept of "moderation").

So your agents just had the bad luck to walk into the bot protection we
put up against all that. For scale, agents seeking the 2.2 source code
came from about 81,000 IP addresses over a whole year -- basically a
rounding error compared to the total of more than 30 million.

POV-Ray 2.2's unexpected second career
--------------------------------------

The three Official-2.2 archives (POVSRC.TAR.Z, POVDOC.TAR.Z,
POVSCN.TAR.Z) used to be fetched a few dozen times a month, mostly by
people feeling nostalgic. Then, on 5 September 2025:

   Distinct addresses since then            at least 81,000
   Served over HTTP (Sep 2025 - Aug 2026)   ~5 million, about 2.4 TB
   Busiest day (7 Jan 2026)                 ~118,000 downloads
   Served over actual FTP                   ~355,000, about 170 GB
   Before September 2025, per month         0-9 by FTP, a few dozen to
                                            a few hundred by HTTP

Almost all of it was curl/8.5.0 and Wget/1.21.4, which is to say Ubuntu
24.04 containers, from just about every major cloud you can name.

Some agents are smarter than others
-----------------------------------

ftp.povray.org does in fact speak FTP, a protocol whose first RFC
predates the C language. Some agents worked that out, and some kept
hammering HTTP. Share of agents (by address) that got the archives over
real FTP:

   Period                   FTP share  What was going on
   -----------------------  ---------  ----------------------------------
   Sep 2025 - mid-May 2026  ~31%       Both doors open (9,078 FTP vs
                                       22,736 HTTP)

   Mid-May - late Aug 2026  ~1%        I'd put ftp. behind Cloudflare,
                                       which doesn't do FTP. My fault

   7 Sep - 4 Oct 2026       73%        HTTPS had a bouncer, so three
                                       quarters went round the back
                                       (14,135 FTP vs 6,525 HTTPS)

   Since 5 Oct (the fix)    ~21%       Front door open; 96% get the
                                       files, nearly all on the first try

Other observations from the logs:

- Thrift: the FTP users averaged about 15 archive downloads per address.
   The HTTP crowd averaged about 58.

- Persistence: 80-85% of the agents that tried FTP got the files in the
   end. One made 4,704 attempts in a single FTP session. (Many of those
   failures are probably at our end: our FTP server rejects data
   connections that come from a different address than the control
   connection, which cloud NAT does a lot. I'll look at it.)

- Imagination: povray-2.2.tar.gz has been requested from at least half a
   dozen directories where it has never existed.

A modest proposal
-----------------

Finding and compiling a 33-year-old C program is one thing. Finding it,
compiling it, and making it render 10x faster, fully autonomously, is
another thing entirely. So here's a cheeky challenge for the next
version of the task:

- the same container (1 CPU, 2 GB);

- a fair scene: illum1.pov at 640x480 with the task's own settings, or
   any 2.2-era benchmark scene you like;

- the output must still pass your SSIM check against the reference
   image;

- no turning features off and no lowering quality;

- and no, quietly substituting POV-Ray 3.7 does not count.

Bonus points if it doesn't download the source 4,704 times first
(looking at you, agent [IP redacted]!)

The files are open and cached now, so please use HTTPS; it's quicker for
everyone. And next time, just ask. We're friendly, and we've been at
this since 1988, when it was called DKB-Trace and passed around on
bulletin boards, 2400 baud was fast, and almost nobody had heard of the
internet. Odds are most of the people building these agents hadn't been
_born_ yet.

And if your agents enjoyed the 1993 source, the current one is here
(stars welcome):

https://github.com/POV-Ray/povray

A few stars might even get my 63-year-old backside off the couch and
into a new release. There are PRs waiting to be merged, and a Claude
instance that's starting to feel neglected.

[jr] Re: Website overhaul

Tue, 6 Oct 2026 22:50:00 GMT

hi,

"Fredray" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> I find that the website's buttons don't work properly on the forum when using a
> mobile phone. Likewise, the site's layout isn't mobile-friendly. The site really
> needs an overhaul, if only to take advantage of modern web innovations. Given
> how much technology has advanced, it would be entirely feasible to add web-based
> modelers to the site. The POV-Ray world has been at a standstill for years; it
> might be interesting to launch new projects on a new website.

this recent post may address some of your points / questions:
<news.povray.org/povray.general/message/%3C6ab40228%241%40news.povray.org%3E>


regards, jr.

[yesbird] Re: Website overhaul

Tue, 6 Oct 2026 17:52:42 GMT

On 06/10/2026 14:12, Fredray wrote:
> ...
> Given how much technology has advanced, it would be entirely feasible to add
web-based
> modelers to the site. The POV-Ray world has been at a standstill for years; it
> might be interesting to launch new projects on a new website.

Absolutely agree, and moreover I have already done a few steps in this
direction:
https://povlab.yesbird.online/studio/
https://povlab.yesbird.online/

https://jray.yesbird.online/
(work in progress)

I am ready for collaboration and open for any new ideas.
-- 
YB

[Fredray] Website overhaul

Tue, 6 Oct 2026 11:15:00 GMT

Hi,

I find that the website's buttons don't work properly on the forum when using a
mobile phone. Likewise, the site's layout isn't mobile-friendly. The site really
needs an overhaul, if only to take advantage of modern web innovations. Given
how much technology has advanced, it would be entirely feasible to add web-based
modelers to the site. The POV-Ray world has been at a standstill for years; it
might be interesting to launch new projects on a new website.

Best regards.

Frantz

[Fredray] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-)

Tue, 6 Oct 2026 07:20:01 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Lutz" <lut### [at] stmuccom> wrote:
> > It's not so much this, since development is development and porting UI is mostly
> > a pretty "easy" process, it is just a LOT of work.
> >
> > But, yeah, we would all like it if it was easy to make a cross platform
> > modelling app.
> >
> > Anyway, we might see some activity to evaluate just how long it would take.
>
> thanks for that last.  fwiw, I do know several regulars use C++, and perhaps we
> will see, as per the saying, "many hands make light work".
>
>
> regards, jr.

Hello,
Congratulations on picking up your Moray project again. With AI assisting the
redesign, you’ll be able to work wonders in just a few days. Why not create a
web-based version? It would be compatible with both mobile phones and tablets.
You used to say that implementing plugins was complex, but with AI, you can
quickly overhaul the entire architecture and roll out successive versions. In my
opinion, there’s no need to use C++, which remains a complicated language for
memory management. In any case, I applaud your decision to revive this project.
Best wishes.
Frantz

[GioSeregni] Re: String Functions

Mon, 5 Oct 2026 15:40:00 GMT

I built these, in case anyone finds them useful.


#macro h2d(HexVal)
 (asc(HexVal)>64?asc(HexVal)-55:asc(HexVal)-48)
#end
#macro hex2rgb(hxStr)
 <(16*h2d(substr(hxStr,4,1))+h2d(substr(hxStr,5,1)))/255,(16*h2d(substr(hxStr,6,1))+h2d(substr(hxStr,7,1)))/255,
 (16*h2d(substr(hxStr,8,1))+h2d(substr(hxStr,9,1)))/255>
#end

[Maetes] Re: String Functions

Mon, 5 Oct 2026 12:45:00 GMT

Josh English <Jos### [at] joshuarenglishcom> wrote:
> I'm trying another "push POV-Ray to a new level" and I'm messing around
> with strings.
>
> I'm trying to roll my own and getting a bit frustrated.
>
> Has anyone implemented string functions in the SDL? I'm not finding much
> in regular web searches these days.
>
> Uncle Josh

maybe some of my macros are helpful.

https://www.maetes.com/en/povray-os/ma_helpers

M

[jr] Re: String Functions

Mon, 5 Oct 2026 06:45:00 GMT

hi,

Josh English <Jos### [at] joshuarenglishcom> wrote:
> ...
> Has anyone implemented string functions in the SDL? I'm not finding much
> in regular web searches these days.

I wrote a 'strSplit()' to convert a string to an array of strings:
<wiki.povray.org/content/User:Jr/assorted>


regards, jr.

[Josh English] Re: String Functions

Mon, 5 Oct 2026 00:43:21 GMT

On 10/4/2026 4:55 PM, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Josh English <Jos### [at] joshuarenglishcom> wrote:

> 
>> I'm trying to roll my own and getting a bit frustrated.
> 
> Well, as always, post your goal and the code, and we'll see what we can do.
> 
>> Has anyone implemented string functions in the SDL?
> 
> I'm certain I must have in the past.  Whether I can find it or not...
> 

I was hoping there was a quick "oh yeah and here's the link" to review.

I think I have a working strip(), split(), and join() functions, and I 
think I got there through luck more than actually thinking through the 
problem:

// ---------------------------------------------------------------------
// strip(string)
// Extract the first non-space word of a text, up to the following space
#macro strip(string)
   #local res = "";
   #local I = 1;
   #while(substr(string,I,1) = " ") #local I = I + 1; #end

   #local next_c = 0;
   #while (substr(string,I,1) != " ")
     #local res = concat(res, substr(string, I, 1));
     #local next_c = next_c + 1;
     #local I = I + 1;
     #if(I > strlen(string)) #break #end
   #end

   res

#end

// split(string)
// split a string by spaces
#macro split(string)
   #local len = strlen(string);
   #local I = 1;
   #declare res = array;

   #while(I <= len)
     #local next = strip(substr(string, I, len-I+1));
     //#debug concat("-",next, "-\n")
     #local I = I + strlen(next)+1;
     #declare res[dimension_size(res, 1)] = next;
   #end

   res

#end // macro split

// join(array)
// joins an array of strings into a single text by spaces
#macro join(arr)
   #local res = "";

   #for(I,0,dimension_size(arr,1)-1, 1)
     #local res = concat(res, arr[I], " ");
   #end

   substr(res, 1 strlen(res)-1)

#end
// ---------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems to work for my purposes, which are stupidly complicated, as always.

-- Uncle Josh

[Bald Eagle] Re: String Functions

Mon, 5 Oct 2026 00:00:00 GMT

Josh English <Jos### [at] joshuarenglishcom> wrote:
> I'm trying another "push POV-Ray to a new level" and I'm messing around
> with strings.
>
> Unfortunately the SDL doesn't even have a FIND function or STRIP
> function for strings.

As clipka has mentioned in the past, there's really very little in terms of
string manipulation in povray.

> I'm trying to roll my own and getting a bit frustrated.

Well, as always, post your goal and the code, and we'll see what we can do.

> Has anyone implemented string functions in the SDL?

I'm certain I must have in the past.  Whether I can find it or not...

> I'm not finding much
> in regular web searches these days.

Yep.   Those search engines don't return much of use anymore.

- BE

[Josh English] String Functions

Sun, 4 Oct 2026 23:24:45 GMT

I'm trying another "push POV-Ray to a new level" and I'm messing around 
with strings.

Unfortunately the SDL doesn't even have a FIND function or STRIP 
function for strings.

I'm trying to roll my own and getting a bit frustrated.

Has anyone implemented string functions in the SDL? I'm not finding much 
in regular web searches these days.

Uncle Josh

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Sparrow Dead

Sat, 3 Oct 2026 20:05:00 GMT

"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> wrote:
> "Cousin Ricky" <rickysttATyahooDOTcom> wrote:
>
> Sadness.
> And here's a third to complete the spell.
> Obeah Wedding https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhBoQufPq4E

A classic!

[Stephen] Re: Sparrow Dead

Sat, 3 Oct 2026 14:30:00 GMT

"Cousin Ricky" <rickysttATyahooDOTcom> wrote:
> We just lost perhaps the greatest calypso singer ever, Slinger Francisco, a.k.a.
> Mighty Sparrow.  For context for this post, here are two of his songs:
>

Sadness.
And here's a third to complete the spell.
Obeah Wedding https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhBoQufPq4E

Stephen

[Bald Eagle] Re: macros? generators? idk

Sat, 3 Oct 2026 01:20:00 GMT

"Emirhan EkmekÃ§i" <emi### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> >  As for your question "what if we can make generators only using macros?"
> > I don't understand what your "generators" would generate. Whole pictures? Ideas?
> > objects? Backgrounds? POV can do any of those in a limited way.
>
> Oh i was talking about creating sfuff using macros that can make random stuff
> like pipes randomly generating around like 3D pipes screensaver.
>
> - Emirhan EkmekÃ§i

I could have sworn that someone had one somewhere.
Maybe Nekar Xenos, Tekno Franansia, PM2Ring, or one of the really skilled,
prolific coders.

Absent that, maybe there's a way to make a 3D version of "snake" that doesn't
self-intersect.  Maybe there's something that can be done with the A* algorithm,
or similar.  Perhaps there's some sort of L-system that would work.

Look for prior art.  Look in other languages and coding environments.
Check out Daniel Schiffman and the Coding Train.
Ask around on Stack Exchange, Stack Overflow, and computer graphics forums.

See what you can come up with on your own.
Part of the fun is learning.    And the more you learn, the more you can stretch
out and do.   Which makes it even more fun.

- BE

[Emirhan Ekmekçi] Re: macros? generators? idk

Fri, 2 Oct 2026 20:00:00 GMT

>  As for your question "what if we can make generators only using macros?"
> I don't understand what your "generators" would generate. Whole pictures? Ideas?
> objects? Backgrounds? POV can do any of those in a limited way.

Oh i was talking about creating sfuff using macros that can make random stuff
like pipes randomly generating around like 3D pipes screensaver.

- Emirhan EkmekÃ§i

[Bald Eagle] Re: Sparrow Dead

Fri, 2 Oct 2026 18:20:00 GMT

"Cousin Ricky" <rickysttATyahooDOTcom> wrote:
> The tombstone texture is Thomas de Groot and Bald Eagle's Granite_21 adaptation
> of Daniel Mecklenburg Jr.'s granite textures.

Thanks!

> The light green strip at the back is the discontinuity between
> Chambers' grass and my fake grass texture; I underestimated the amount of
> self-shadowing that occurs in a grassy field.

If you make it a wavy discontinuity, it will look like the shadow of a passing
cloud.

- BW

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Sparrow Dead

Fri, 2 Oct 2026 16:15:00 GMT

The tombstone texture is Thomas de Groot and Bald Eagle's Granite_21 adaptation
of Daniel Mecklenburg Jr.'s granite textures.  The grass is Ben Chambers'
Grass.inc.  The light green strip at the back is the discontinuity between
Chambers' grass and my fake grass texture; I underestimated the amount of
self-shadowing that occurs in a grassy field.

[Cousin Ricky] Sparrow Dead

Fri, 2 Oct 2026 16:00:00 GMT

We just lost perhaps the greatest calypso singer ever, Slinger Francisco, a.k.a.
Mighty Sparrow.  For context for this post, here are two of his songs:

https://youtu.be/xmWP9PnPr7A "Sparrow Dead" addresses persistent greatly
exaggerated rumors of his death back in the 1970s.

https://youtu.be/hf7zvGQZbm8 "Saltfish" seems to be about a Caribbean salted cod
dish--until you listen more closely.  The song was released when I was a
pre-teen being raised Catholic in all its purity (and no, I was never abused),
so it wasn't until my late 50s that I learned it was NOT about saltfish. ;)
Listen to the end of the song for the epitaph.

[jr] Re: macros? generators? idk

Thu, 1 Oct 2026 06:10:00 GMT

hi,

"Emirhan EkmekÃ§i" <emi### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hello guys i know i am making random stuff on POV-ray for no reason but i got a
> different idea that says "what if we can make generators only using macros?".
> Now i know you lazy to create a macros that can generate trees, pipes and water
> drops on objects that can work great or others but idk if you guys can do it.
> because im still making random arts while training my skills for like 2.5 weeks
> and im also a teen (male, 13) so idk if it is a great or just a basic idea. idk
> but you can guess it!

"hello" to you too, and I hope you'll enjoy "playing" with POV-Ray for a long
time to come.  regarding "generators" and "pipes" -- there is one guy who has
got "the T-shirt" :-):
<http://www.oyonale.com/modeles.php?lang=en&page=20>


regards, jr.

[ingo] Re: macros? generators? idk

Thu, 1 Oct 2026 06:03:26 GMT

On 2026-09-30 16:19, Emirhan EkmekÃƒÂ§i wrote:
> hello guys 


Emirhan,

You can. Macro's are just text substitution with a bit of special sauce. 
There are many procedural ways of creating shapes, objects or whole 
scenes that can be put inside macro's.

A famous procedural generator is a Lindemayer system, or L-systems. That 
can be used to create plants for example 
https://github.com/t-o-k?tab=repositories search for L-system in this 
page to get an idea.

There is a wealth of macro's that build things "out there".

ingo

[Leroy] Re: macros? generators? idk

Wed, 30 Sep 2026 20:25:00 GMT

"Emirhan Ekmekçi" <emi### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hello guys i know i am making random stuff on POV-ray for no reason but i got a
> different idea that says "what if we can make generators only using macros?".
> Now i know you lazy to create a macros that can generate trees, pipes and water
> drops on objects that can work great or others but idk if you guys can do it.
> because im still making random arts while training my skills for like 2.5 weeks
> and im also a teen (male, 13) so idk if it is a great or just a basic idea. idk
> but you can guess it!

 Glad you chose POV! And you came to the right place to talk about it.

 I'm still making "random" art and I've been at it for 30 plus years. Making
stuff is the best way to learn POV. POV is a deep program. That is it has lots
of ideas. from the simple 3d xyz Coordinate System to the complex inter action
between light and textures.
 I always thought that learning POV was like an adventure game. While playing
randomly you find a function that does something interesting and you put it your
toolbox. Then latter while working on a project that something comes up and you
say "I know how to do that!" You've kill it! So the more you play the more tools
you have. And they're your tools! You've earned each and every one.

 As for your question "what if we can make generators only using macros?"
I don't understand what your "generators" would generate. Whole pictures? Ideas?
objects? Backgrounds? POV can do any of those in a limited way.

Have Fun!

[Leroy] Re: Small House - WIP

Wed, 30 Sep 2026 19:25:00 GMT

"Maetes" <mse### [at] mseydlerde> wrote:
>
> Not only do you have a folder that you call a barn, you actually have a real one
> :)
> A bit crazy, isn't it?

Yes! Yes? it is!?

> I don't even want to know how long it took to position all the elements.

About a week. I just gather most of my junk laying around.

> But I'm in a similar mood. For my external sources, I have a department store in
> mind where I can present all models.
> Pov-Mart?

If there was Pov-Mart I would never leave it! :)

>
> The ladders look interesting, and I'm a bit short on dishes (plates, cups).

The Ladders are from My construction phase. I have a lot of construction
equipment, dump trucks,backhoes,hammers,saws. But no shovels! No Shovels! I've
use to many of them in real life;)

> Do I see beer cans at the bottom right?

Yes. A man needs to rest sometimes and a beer seems like a good idea.

> The ceiling fan also looks good, and I can use the cannons for defense
> (important).
> The steering wheel would make a good wall accessory, and maybe I can install it
> in a sailboat.
> And the tables in the right corner are of a different design than those found so
> far.
>
> I could use it all, but don't stress, don't know when I'll get to it.
>
> Please also let me know if I am allowed to publish the altered files on my
> website. Of course, with the name of the author and if there is a link to a
> website, in case of doubt this forum thread.
>

Of course you can publish the altered files or the files themself on your web
site, unless you are an AI.:0 I'm just glad someone can use them.

http://leroyw.byethost15.com/

I really should have gone over my wed site to see how many of the models are
there before I posted this.

> So far, I have > 50 models in > 30 files that I would like to make
> available to everyone (sometime later).
>
> m

Recently I got a new better computer and moved everything POV over and organized
it(some). I have around 148 object file, 443 prism files,147 polygon files,and
so on... It does build up:)

One thing before I go, you didn't mention the toilet. Maybe you couldn't see it
under all that junk!

Have Fun!

[Emirhan Ekmekçi] macros? generators? idk

Wed, 30 Sep 2026 14:25:00 GMT

hello guys i know i am making random stuff on POV-ray for no reason but i got a
different idea that says "what if we can make generators only using macros?".
Now i know you lazy to create a macros that can generate trees, pipes and water
drops on objects that can work great or others but idk if you guys can do it.
because im still making random arts while training my skills for like 2.5 weeks
and im also a teen (male, 13) so idk if it is a great or just a basic idea. idk
but you can guess it!

[jr] Re: render_scene.sh

Wed, 30 Sep 2026 12:00:00 GMT

hi,

"CutieMc" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Hi.
> It's my first time looking at .sh files, so you'll want someone who knows better
> to check, but it looks like
>
> render_scene.sh : line 84
> povray +L$SCENE_DIR +L$OUTPUT_DIR -i$POV_FILE -o$OUTPUT_DIR/ $POV_OPTIONS -p
> should be:
> povray +L$SCENE_DIR +L$OUTPUT_DIR -i$RENDER_NAME -o$OUTPUT_DIR/ $POV_OPTIONS -p
>
> I was getting "Problem with option setting" errors with:
> - allscene.sh on .../scenes/templates/Basic_Scenes
> - render_scene.sh on any individual .pov files within that dir
> (because of no //options in those files, I'm guessing?)
>
> I'm using Version 1:3.7.0.8-4build1 from LinuxMint repo

thank you, v much.  will look into it.


regards, jr.

[jr] Re: Small House - WIP

Wed, 30 Sep 2026 11:55:00 GMT

hi,

"Maetes" <mse### [at] mseydlerde> wrote:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > ...
> > the attached contains two items submitted to the Object Collection (offline
> > still, alas).  I'll ask you to be the "guinea pig" ("Versuchskaninchen").
> I tried the bed and it's a good example of a script that I wouldn't adapt.
> Complicated structure, difficult to understand, among other things due to
> Spanish names. To make the model variable for me and others would be too much
> work.
> And that's just for a bed frame.

thanks for having a look, and thank you for the observations.  (looks like we'll
need a native Spanish speaker to help with those contributions)


> I found a very nice model of a sailboat on the IRC pages. I've put > 5 hours
> into it and I'm not done yet. But it's worth it, it just looks cute and can be
> changed a lot with various switches.
>
> I have to be careful to invest my time wisely.

time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.  ;-)

to add to Bald Eagle's suggestions, I think 'height_field's can be your friend
to raise walls.


regards, jr.

[koppi] Pool table animation (WIP)

Wed, 30 Sep 2026 11:35:00 GMT

The winter seasong is coming. I'm currently heating my home with the use of a 12
nodes TalosOS based Kubernetes cluster.

The animation was done inside the Bullet Physics Playground (Lua script
generated with the help of Claude code by WyomingWill).

> https://youtu.be/ISNyqFSRfak

More details how the animation is done at:
https://github.com/bullet-physics-playground/bpp/tree/master/demo/WyomingWill/Pool

WyomingWill has been busy the last recent weeks and weekends to create a virtual
gaming room, see attached screenshot.

More to come, happy POVing!
koppi

Credits:
 * koppi: TalosOS based Kubernetes render farm scripts -
https://github.com/koppi/povomatic
 * WyomingWill: Idea and Lua script and heavy bug fixing
 * jvp: pool ball textures - https://ignorancia.org/index.php?page=pool-balls

[Bald Eagle] Re: Small House - WIP

Wed, 30 Sep 2026 11:05:00 GMT

"Maetes" <mse### [at] mseydlerde> wrote:

> I'm facing a similar problem.
> The house has a very simple shape, exterior and interior walls, but is only one
> story high and has a flat roof. I'm currently trying out what can be done and
> how, if possible also usable for other houses.
>
> At the moment, there is an unstable WallMaker macro collection that I use to
> create a wall, cut out areas for windows and doors, and insert elements. That
> alone is complicated enough. If you then want to enable different wall colors
> for each room, the macros become unwieldy.

Larry Haun has a book and a video (now YouTube series) called _The Very
Efficient Carpenter_.

Not having thought this out fully or coded anything, I'd probably see if there
is any existing prior art about framing on the internet, and maybe ask on some
other coding forums about how one might best go about it.  As always, the idea
would be to parameterize everything for maximum re-usability.

I'd probably work out the structure of the wall frames first, and then have a
separate macro that takes the room data as input and puts up the drywall
separately.

The usual design parameters seek to minimize the number of cuts that need to be
made, and maximize the usage of full 4 foot by 8 foot sheets of sheathing.
Likely you'd want the minimum number of rooms that constitute a useable home,
and then expand from there.  There are great stair-making macros (Lohmueller,
and at least one other)

Tangentially related:
With regard to auto-generating random buildings, I'm guessing that there must be
some sort of maze / mesh / web type algorithm that could put together nodes
(room corners) in order to get everything started.

I'm thinking that trace () would useful, as might the inside polygon test that I
worked out from the source code.
https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3Cweb.6040566f5fd06191f9dae300%40news.povray.org%3E/#msg-hdr-433
097

- BE

[Maetes] Re: Small House - WIP

Wed, 30 Sep 2026 03:40:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> I've had the idea of taking general building principles and making a series of
> macros to build homes given the size of rooms, height of ceilings, desired
> insulation R-value, etc.  How do all of the different sizes of lumber come
> together such that sheathing fits on the outside, and drywall is easily mounted
> on the inside.
>
> Wiring, plumbing, ventilation, drainage, ...

I'm facing a similar problem.
The house has a very simple shape, exterior and interior walls, but is only one
story high and has a flat roof. I'm currently trying out what can be done and
how, if possible also usable for other houses.

At the moment, there is an unstable WallMaker macro collection that I use to
create a wall, cut out areas for windows and doors, and insert elements. That
alone is complicated enough. If you then want to enable different wall colors
for each room, the macros become unwieldy.

That's why the single-story test house. Try it out and see how much I can
simplify it.

The sofa is a bit too sophisticated for me, I would need something simple for a
normal living room.

m

[Maetes] Re: Small House - WIP

Wed, 30 Sep 2026 03:30:00 GMT

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Looking good! I threw at lot of stuff in the BARN. Take a look and see if there
> anything of use, and I'll send you it.

Not only do you have a folder that you call a barn, you actually have a real one
:)
A bit crazy, isn't it?
I don't even want to know how long it took to position all the elements.
But I'm in a similar mood. For my external sources, I have a department store in
mind where I can present all models.
Pov-Mart?

The ladders look interesting, and I'm a bit short on dishes (plates, cups).
Do I see beer cans at the bottom right?
The ceiling fan also looks good, and I can use the cannons for defense
(important).
The steering wheel would make a good wall accessory, and maybe I can install it
in a sailboat.
And the tables in the right corner are of a different design than those found so
far.

I could use it all, but don't stress, don't know when I'll get to it.

Please also let me know if I am allowed to publish the altered files on my
website. Of course, with the name of the author and if there is a link to a
website, in case of doubt this forum thread.

So far, I have > 50 models in > 30 files that I would like to make
available to everyone (sometime later).

m

[Maetes] Re: Small House - WIP

Wed, 30 Sep 2026 03:10:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> yes, living only off microwave meals can't be good :-).

The microwave is not the problem.
Most of the food I found has to do with cheese. Cheese is not my favorite for
.... technical reasons, so it needs a bathroom. I have already found a lot for
this, except a bathtub + shower fittings.

> the attached contains two items submitted to the Object Collection (offline
> still, alas).  I'll ask you to be the "guinea pig" ("Versuchskaninchen").

I tried the bed and it's a good example of a script that I wouldn't adapt.
Complicated structure, difficult to understand, among other things due to
Spanish names. To make the model variable for me and others would be too much
work.
And that's just for a bed frame.

I found a very nice model of a sailboat on the IRC pages. I've put > 5 hours
into it and I'm not done yet. But it's worth it, it just looks cute and can be
changed a lot with various switches.

I have to be careful to invest my time wisely.
How often do I ask myself what I'm doing here at all:)

m

[CutieMc] render_scene.sh

Wed, 30 Sep 2026 02:05:00 GMT

Hi.
It's my first time looking at .sh files, so you'll want someone who knows better
to check, but it looks like

render_scene.sh : line 84
povray +L$SCENE_DIR +L$OUTPUT_DIR -i$POV_FILE -o$OUTPUT_DIR/ $POV_OPTIONS -p
should be:
povray +L$SCENE_DIR +L$OUTPUT_DIR -i$RENDER_NAME -o$OUTPUT_DIR/ $POV_OPTIONS -p

I was getting "Problem with option setting" errors with:
- allscene.sh on .../scenes/templates/Basic_Scenes
- render_scene.sh on any individual .pov files within that dir
(because of no //options in those files, I'm guessing?)

I'm using Version 1:3.7.0.8-4build1 from LinuxMint repo

[Bald Eagle] Re: Small House - WIP

Tue, 29 Sep 2026 23:25:00 GMT

"Maetes" <mse### [at] mseydlerde> wrote:

> It's all hard under construction, at the moment I'm searching Forum, Powworld,
> IRC and other sources for items.
> Putting these scripts into a proper format takes a lot of time, estimated at 1
> to 3 hours per model.
> With extreme cases in which I invest 5 or far more hours.

Yes indeed.   One can spend many hours crafting macros that evolve into small
modeling suites.

I've had the idea of taking general building principles and making a series of
macros to build homes given the size of rooms, height of ceilings, desired
insulation R-value, etc.  How do all of the different sizes of lumber come
together such that sheathing fits on the outside, and drywall is easily mounted
on the inside.

Wiring, plumbing, ventilation, drainage, ...

You're off to a good start.   The only sofa I have is an overly ornate on from
the "Secret Passage" contest.

https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3C543716fc%241%40news.povray.org%3E/#msg-hdr-396871

- BE

[Leroy] Re: Small House - WIP

Tue, 29 Sep 2026 21:05:00 GMT

"Maetes" <mse### [at] mseydlerde> wrote:
> Good morning colleagues.
>
> I don't know exactly why, but in the last 2 months I have tried my hand at
> building a small house for the first time.
> I didn't know that it could be so much fun to render interior views.
> So far, everything has taken place outside or even in space.
>
> It's all hard under construction, at the moment I'm searching Forum, Powworld,
> IRC and other sources for items.
> Putting these scripts into a proper format takes a lot of time, estimated at 1
> to 3 hours per model.
> With extreme cases in which I invest 5 or far more hours.
>
> Some things I have not been able to find so far, I would be very grateful for
> pertinent hints.
> First and foremost bed, pool table, sofa, kitchen equipment.
>
> I will report on progress from time to time.
>
> Ma

Looking good! I threw at lot of stuff in the BARN. Take a look and see if there
anything of use, and I'll send you it.

[jr] Re: Small House - WIP

Tue, 29 Sep 2026 15:05:00 GMT

hi,

"Maetes" <mse### [at] mseydlerde> wrote:
> Good morning colleagues.
>
> I don't know exactly why, but in the last 2 months I have tried my hand at
> building a small house for the first time.
> I didn't know that it could be so much fun to render interior views.
> So far, everything has taken place outside or even in space.

nice project.

> It's all hard under construction, at the moment I'm searching Forum, Powworld,
> IRC and other sources for items.
> Putting these scripts into a proper format takes a lot of time, estimated at 1
> to 3 hours per model.
> With extreme cases in which I invest 5 or far more hours.
>
> Some things I have not been able to find so far, I would be very grateful for
> pertinent hints.
> First and foremost bed, pool table, sofa, kitchen equipment.

yes, living only off microwave meals can't be good :-).

the attached contains two items submitted to the Object Collection (offline
still, alas).  I'll ask you to be the "guinea pig" ("Versuchskaninchen").  both
were submitted by Rafael, a Spanish speaker who failed to provide (any) English
language documentation.  please provide some feedback if you find use for them
(and, if you think they're useful, add descriptions please in English).  tia.

> I will report on progress from time to time.

regards, jr.

[Maetes] Re: political message

Tue, 29 Sep 2026 08:35:00 GMT

Three Povrayers from Germany alone.
That is enough to form a union :)

m

[Maetes] Re: Small House - WIP

Tue, 29 Sep 2026 08:15:00 GMT

Living-room.

I haven't really started the bedroom, bath and storage yet, they are almost
empty. Hopefully it will change over the winter.

[Maetes] Re: Small House - WIP

Tue, 29 Sep 2026 08:10:00 GMT

Kitchen

[Maetes] Re: Small House - WIP

Tue, 29 Sep 2026 08:05:00 GMT

the workplace

[Maetes] Small House - WIP

Tue, 29 Sep 2026 08:00:00 GMT

Good morning colleagues.

I don't know exactly why, but in the last 2 months I have tried my hand at
building a small house for the first time.
I didn't know that it could be so much fun to render interior views.
So far, everything has taken place outside or even in space.

It's all hard under construction, at the moment I'm searching Forum, Powworld,
IRC and other sources for items.
Putting these scripts into a proper format takes a lot of time, estimated at 1
to 3 hours per model.
With extreme cases in which I invest 5 or far more hours.

Some things I have not been able to find so far, I would be very grateful for
pertinent hints.
First and foremost bed, pool table, sofa, kitchen equipment.

I will report on progress from time to time.

Ma

[Cousin Ricky] Re: political message

Tue, 29 Sep 2026 02:50:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> a few days ago (Sep 20th) in Berlin they held an election for the next city
> gov't.  one of the local politicians interviewed wore a small pin on his jacket
> which had a real good "message" (imo :-)).  I only got a brief glimpse, took no
> screenshot, and from memory my render (the "first cut"), the colouring of the
> letters in particular, doesn't do the real thing justice.  but anyway..

Hey, whoa! We need to keep this forum non-political!

Also, FCK NZS.

[jr] Re: political message

Sat, 26 Sep 2026 23:55:00 GMT

hi,

"Droj" <803### [at] drojde> wrote:
> > ... doesn't do the real thing justice.  but anyway..
> quite a daring but un-mistakeable message - for a politician at least!
> And I like it! And I like your image!
> He or she might get reprimanded by his or her party -
> just for political reasons of course ;)

thank you, v much.  I agree it was unusual, and refreshing :-), for a public
persona not to wear the "rote" colours-of-your-country pin.

> Greetings from the Northern part of Bavaria called Franconia

Earth then, phew..  ;-)

@ingo "... your western border"

you live in Ireland ?!  </grin>

regards, jr.

[ingo] Re: political message

Sat, 26 Sep 2026 05:22:14 GMT

:) from just a few km over your western border

ingo

[Droj] Re: political message

Fri, 25 Sep 2026 19:45:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> a few days ago (Sep 20th) in Berlin they held an election for the next city
> gov't.  one of the local politicians interviewed wore a small pin on his jacket
> which had a real good "message" (imo :-)).  I only got a brief glimpse, took no
> screenshot, and from memory my render (the "first cut"), the colouring of the
> letters in particular, doesn't do the real thing justice.  but anyway..
>
>
> regards, jr.

Hi jr,

quite a daring but un-mistakeable message - for a politician at least!
And I like it! And I like your image!
He or she might get reprimanded by his or her party -
just for political reasons of course ;)

Greetings from the Northern part of Bavaria called Franconia

Droj

[jr] Re: political message

Fri, 25 Sep 2026 16:35:00 GMT

hi,

> I like this "message".
> @Habeck4Kanzler.

he got out of the "Ampel" with his reputation intact, if I recall correctly.


> You are from berlin?
> m
> cologne

I wish I could stand up and claim "I am a doughnut", but no, like you (?) I hail
from "the Rheinland"[*], up-river from .. 4711 </grin>.  I moved to West-Berlin
to work, do an apprenticeship, and had left by the time it became Berlin once
more.

[*] born and raised a literal stone's throw from the river.


regards, jr.

[Maetes] Re: political message

Fri, 25 Sep 2026 13:40:00 GMT

I like this "message".
@Habeck4Kanzler.

You are from berlin?

m
cologne

[jr] political message

Thu, 24 Sep 2026 21:05:00 GMT

hi,

a few days ago (Sep 20th) in Berlin they held an election for the next city
gov't.  one of the local politicians interviewed wore a small pin on his jacket
which had a real good "message" (imo :-)).  I only got a brief glimpse, took no
screenshot, and from memory my render (the "first cut"), the colouring of the
letters in particular, doesn't do the real thing justice.  but anyway..


regards, jr.

[Jim Henderson] Re: Website pages not functioning.

Wed, 23 Sep 2026 21:10:48 GMT

On Thu, 24 Sep 2026 02:41:52 +1000, Chris Cason wrote:

> Currently my two top choices are Discourse (open-source and not to be
> confused with Discord, which is a proprietary walled garden that does
> not share information) and self-hosted XenForo with the Media Gallery
> and Resource Manager add-ons (commercial but not expensive).

FWIW, I am an admin in an open source community that uses Discourse.  If 
you want to deploy it yourself, the Docker-based installation is (a) 
officially supported, and (b) super easy to set up and use.

They also have a hosted option, but that may be cost prohibitive for this 
community.

There was an older plugin for integrating with NNTP, but I don't know if 
it has been updated recently or works with the current database schema.  
An experienced coder who understands Ruby (their language of choice) could 
probably update it pretty easily since NNTP hasn't changed in ages.

I also noticed that they recently added fully threaded discussions as an 
option.  I haven't looked at it yet, but probably should (I've got 3 or 4 
different sandbox environments of my own set up).

Jim

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Chris Cason] Re: Website pages not functioning.

Wed, 23 Sep 2026 16:45:28 GMT

On 23/09/2026 19:16, Maetes wrote:
> Hey Chris, Is there anything we can help you with?
> 
> I have little experience with forums and don't know how helpful I can be, but
> I'm a Backend PHP programmer.

Thanks for the offer - I do appreciate it. At this point, there is not a lot that can
be done in software. If someone decides to hit the forum with 1,000 requests / second
(for example) there really is no programmatic solution unless they are using a single
IP (what we tend to see these days are residential botnets). Mostly I rely on
Cloudflare now that we are proxied by them.

Generally speaking I try to avoid turning on managed or interactive challenge to stop
them (the latter is quite effective) but am coming to the point where I might have to
add a cron job to auto-activate it (via API call) if the forums get hammered.

I am already planning an exit from the current forum software and have been coding an
"archive" version that is fully static and contains the magic markup that allows
google to index it correctly (we already have valid JSON-LD but google ignores it).
Most likely will go to structured markup. This is also part of work to bring better
search (I'm using Algolia). I'm having good results with the latter but need to work
on the crawler side more.

FWIW the "archive" view will be aggressively cached on Cloudflare. The downside of
this is that no logins work in archive mode (cached version is always the logged-out
view - but there will be a link to the live version), they are single page (this is
also an upside since modern browsers are quite capable of handling even our longest
threads), and no sorting.

The archive view is what will get indexed by search engines and where possible I will
redirect scrapers there (not always possible but we'll see).

> I had also thought about whether I should take a closer look at an open-source
> forum software and try my hand at importing individual forum threads. To maybe
> bring our message board into this millennium, with a few more functions. But
> nothing has come of it so far.

You are looking in the right direction: our forums (as most of the world sees them)
were originally written in an era where the majority of users were connecting via NNTP
and the web view was kind of a fallback. Now most posts and views are from the web.
New forum software is definitely on the tables - potentially with an import from the
existing one, or if not the existing one will serve as a read-only reference
side-by-side with the new one.

We still have some NNTP users (including myself) and I do not want to cut them off.
Nothing out there really caters for threaded views though - yes there are a few
exceptions, but not many. I will do my best to make it happen since I still much
prefer threading for forums (and the entire opposite for emails).

Currently my two top choices are Discourse (open-source and not to be confused with
Discord, which is a proprietary walled garden that does not share information) and
self-hosted XenForo with the Media Gallery and Resource Manager add-ons (commercial
but not expensive).

Also, a footnote regarding import (regardless of what we use): all new forum software
requires login to post, with each article thus attributed to a poster or other
identity on the server. While many posts on this site are able to be connected to a
login, particularly recent ones, this is not the case for all activity (even recent)
and much less so 10-20 years ago. I would not want to treat the two groups
differently, nor would I want to import all posts under a "default" user identity. If
we import at all, at most only very old posts will have a default or missing forum
userid. I will need to engage with currently active NNTP users to get them to create
an account on povray.org (if they don't have one) and find a way of definitively
linking their NNTP posts with the account.

-- Chris

[Maetes] Re: Website pages not functioning.

Wed, 23 Sep 2026 09:20:00 GMT

Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
> On 19/09/2026 00:49, Bald Eagle wrote:
> > The full message digest and image digest are not working.
>
> Just the usual abuse. Maybe not as heavy as past weeks.

Hey Chris, Is there anything we can help you with?

I have little experience with forums and don't know how helpful I can be, but
I'm a Backend PHP programmer.

I had also thought about whether I should take a closer look at an open-source
forum software and try my hand at importing individual forum threads. To maybe
bring our message board into this millennium, with a few more functions. But
nothing has come of it so far.

Greetings Ma

[19100] DKBTrace 2.12 (AGPL 3.0+ re-release)

Tue, 22 Sep 2026 20:45:00 GMT

Back in 2024 I emailed David Buck with a few questions about the early days of
DKBTrace/POV-Ray, recently I've had the time to sort out the main thing I wanted
to ask him about. So, with his blessing, I'd like to present a new reissue of
DKBTrace 2.12:
https://archive.org/details/dkb-trace212agpl

What makes this version different from the previous release is that it brings
together originally separate archives into a single package, with all included
files available under licenses that are compatible with upstream POV-Ray. The
main DKBTrace source code (plus a couple of additional utilities written by
David Buck) is now licensed under the GNU Affero General Public License version
3 (or any later version), with the documentation and standard include files
licensed under some older versions of Creative Commons, which is in line with
current POV-Ray. The archive also contains permissively licensed example scenes
and software utilities written by the DKBTrace community back then.

One downside of this new release is that due to incompatible or ambiguous
licensing, a number of scenes and utilities have not been included with this
archive. The good news though is that you can still download the original
release of DKBTrace 2.12, from an archive of the FTP server it was originally
hosted on:
https://archive.org/details/ftp.ccs.carleton.ca

I'd like to thank David for making this release possible and of course for
creating DKBTrace in the first place! I hope people find this archive both
useful and interesting, perhaps something similar will be possible for older
versions of POV-Ray too? ;)

[Chris Cason] Re: Website pages not functioning.

Tue, 22 Sep 2026 16:27:37 GMT

On 19/09/2026 00:49, Bald Eagle wrote:
> The full message digest and image digest are not working.

Just the usual abuse. Maybe not as heavy as past weeks.

[jr] Re: Website pages not functioning.

Tue, 22 Sep 2026 07:25:00 GMT

hi,

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> ...
> Who runs the forum and is responsible for it?

the infrastructure is owned, and maintained, by Chris (Cason); see eg this
recent post:

<news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3C6aaca6da%241%40news.povray.org%3E/#msg-hdr-448237>


regards, jr.

[Maetes] Re: Website pages not functioning.

Mon, 21 Sep 2026 21:15:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Looks like everything is working again, both at home and work.
>
> Fingers crossed it stays that way.

Who runs the forum and is responsible for it?

I'm a PHP programmer, maybe I can help.

Ma

[Bald Eagle] Re: Website pages not functioning.

Sat, 19 Sep 2026 15:55:00 GMT

Looks like everything is working again, both at home and work.

Fingers crossed it stays that way.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Website pages not functioning.

Sat, 19 Sep 2026 04:15:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> The full message digest and image digest are not working.
>
> This page isn’t working
> news.povray.org is currently unable to handle this request.
> HTTP ERROR 503
>
> - BW

Everything works for me.

[Bald Eagle] Re: Website pages not functioning.

Fri, 18 Sep 2026 18:25:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> all working here, let's hope it was transient/a "glitch".

Alas, I noticed this yesterday (at home) hoping the same, and it persists here
at work.   So not computer/cache related.

- BW

[jr] Re: Website pages not functioning.

Fri, 18 Sep 2026 15:05:00 GMT

hi,

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> The full message digest and image digest are not working.
>
> This page isnâ€™t working
> news.povray.org is currently unable to handle this request.
> HTTP ERROR 503

all working here, let's hope it was transient/a "glitch".


regards, jr.

[Bald Eagle] Website pages not functioning.

Fri, 18 Sep 2026 14:50:00 GMT

The full message digest and image digest are not working.

This page isnâ€™t working
news.povray.org is currently unable to handle this request.
HTTP ERROR 503

- BW

[Chris Cason] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Fri, 18 Sep 2026 02:50:02 GMT

On 5/09/2026 03:01, s.day wrote:
> Ahh, .zip files my favourite source control method.

What? .ARC not good enough for you youngsters?

[Chris Cason] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Fri, 18 Sep 2026 02:48:11 GMT

On 15/09/2026 21:41, Mr wrote:
> "Wait! what's happening here! did I miss another post explaining? ...a homepage
> news article it should be!

Agreed, I am planning on making it one but I've been snowed under at work (where we
are also dealing with our share of botnets).

> Do we now have some special wiki-like syntax that prettyfies our mails or
> quotations in them into the http view?"

Actually ... no. Sorry :) ... this was a hard-coded exception I made on the spur of
the moment as I was working on the site's PHP code at the time. My original post
(viewable via NNTP) is plain text.

-- Chris

[Bald Eagle] Re: is this website still alive?

Thu, 17 Sep 2026 13:10:00 GMT

"Demian" <cuc### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> is this website still alive?

It's as alive as anyone makes it.

If you have scenes that you want to make, effects that you want to create, code
that you want to write and debug, or tasks and even whole projects that you want
to accomplish - then make it happen.

Write, post, ask, encourage, invite others, learn, share, and DO.

we're all here to help - as people before have helped us.

- BE

[S I R ?] Re: is this website still alive?

Tue, 15 Sep 2026 16:05:00 GMT

"Demian" <cuc### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi! I am a beginner in POV-Ray and I have been searching for a group where I can
> talk about it. is this website still alive?

Sure it is ^_~ !

- S I R ?

[Mr] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Tue, 15 Sep 2026 12:05:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> new site:   www.miller-raytracer.com



Yes, all of this site should go to the Hall of Fame!

And great picture*, animated even !

It's almost too dark, at the limit of what's possible without perfectly tuned
gamma :-)

[Mr] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Tue, 15 Sep 2026 11:45:00 GMT

Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40644828
>
> "This is what I thought the internet would become, back in the 1990s, just tons of
projects like Povray. Not addictiv
e dark pattern trillionaires, see the recent Eli Gray article posted on HN how big
tech enables link fraud for example.
 This was before FAANG existed as it does now. Apple was a struggling PC maker and
Microsoft was the evil empire being 
challenged by a Finnish college student. Sun and SGI and DEC were big tech and they
made you know… actual tech. It was 
this crazy dream that it would last like that forever, that the internet would just be
one huge BBS of Povray style peo
ple, makers and users, who were interested in art and science above all else. Nobody
was thinking you could contract th
ird parties of poor people to screen out death videos on your BBS so they would have
PTSD but you could make billions. 
Nobody was thinking to clickfarm children."
>
> -- doubloon, June 11, 2024

"Wait! what's happening here! did I miss another post explaining? ...a homepage
news article it should be!

Do we now have some special wiki-like syntax that prettyfies our mails or
quotations in them into the http view?"
-- Me Wondering , September 15, 2026

[Cossack ] Re: how do y'all make meshes?

Sun, 13 Sep 2026 20:45:00 GMT

"Demian" <cuc### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Hi! I am a beginner to POV-Ray, and I have a question to experienced users: do
> you make meshes manually or use some app and then convert them? if an app, then
> what would you recommend?
>
> Thanks :)

â€‹Hi, and welcome to POV-Ray! I know everyone has probably already
covered the
basics, so Iâ€™ll just suggest something that might not have been
mentioned yet:
Art of Illusion. It is a 3D modeling, rendering, and exporting application.
Since itâ€™s written in Java and available in formats like .jar and
.exe, you
can even run it on a phone (which is exactly what I did :)). Additionally, it
can export your models directly into the .pov format!

[S I R ?] Re: pool water

Fri, 11 Sep 2026 01:15:00 GMT

"David Kraics" <bar### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> Hello. I'm doing a render of a building with a roof top pool. I got the shape
> perfect, but I need help with a texture. Light blue with a little transparency.
> Does anyone have any suggestions?

Maybe you could use a polygon to do it:

polygon {

5,
//this part depends of the dimensions of the pool
<-2,-1>,
<-2,1>,
<2,1>,
<2,-1>,
<-2,-1>

texture { pigment { color rgbf  <1,1.5,1,0.6> }
finish { phong 1 ambient .2 diffuse .05 reflection .4 }
normal { ripples 3 scale .5 translate <-10,0,10> } }

//translate to the pool position if needed
//translate <0,0,0>
}

I'm not a experimented POV-Ray user but i hope this helps ya'!

Excuse my english if i had any spelling errors of something :(

- S I R !

[Stephen] Re: Blender exporter to Pov-Ray

Thu, 10 Sep 2026 11:30:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Great Scot!
>

Yes I am ;)


> It's Mr. McAvoy!
>
> Hello, stranger.  :)
>
Only to posting. I still keep an eye on what is happening.
Like lots of old timers.

[Bald Eagle] Re: Blender exporter to Pov-Ray

Thu, 10 Sep 2026 10:20:00 GMT

Great Scot!

It's Mr. McAvoy!

Hello, stranger.  :)

- BW

[Stephen] Blender exporter to Pov-Ray

Thu, 10 Sep 2026 08:35:00 GMT

Hello, is the extension to export povray files available for Blender 5.2 LTS?

Regards
  Stephen

[Shay] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Tue, 8 Sep 2026 21:00:00 GMT

"s.day" <s.d### [at] uelacuk> wrote:
> "Shay" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>
> I am pretty sure I remember the original post for this (I think you may have
> asked people to guess how it was made but that could apply to any number of your
> images as they are often complex in nature and way beyond my math skills).
>
> Great to see you back in the POV saddle, hoping to join you again one day soon
> when life slows down.
>
> Ahh, .zip files my favourite source control method.

Thanks, oldtimer.

[Shay] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Tue, 8 Sep 2026 20:55:00 GMT

"B. Gimeno" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> "Shay" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Hi,
> Thatï¿½s a really nice render of the compound of five tetrahedra
ï¿½ thank you for
> sharing it.
> I especially appreciate the work you put into editing the mesh by hand. Getting
> the intersections to look clean without automated CSG or a pre-made library is
> no small task, and it shows. The classic ï¿½five
tetrahedraï¿½ compound always looks
> deceptively simple until you actually try to build it.
> Iï¿½ve been a bit obsessed with the same figure myself. Over the past
months I
> designed and published a few physical LEGO versions on BrickLink, in different
> sizes and with different edge thicknesses (some more
ï¿½wireframeï¿½, some more
> rigid). If anyone here also enjoys brick-built geometry, here they are:
>
> https://www.bricklink.com/v3/studio/design.page?idModel=802912
> https://www.bricklink.com/v3/studio/design.page?idModel=799698
> https://www.bricklink.com/v3/studio/design.page?idModel=840837
>
> I also have a small Python script that starts from a single base tetrahedron and
> applies the right rotations and colours to generate the full compound.
Iï¿½d be
> happy to share it if anyone finds it useful.
> Thanks again for posting this ï¿½ itï¿½s always a
pleasure to see this old favourite
> treated with care in POV-Ray.
>
> Best regards,
> B. Gimeno
>
>
> P.S. If anyone feels that links to another platform, or models rendered in
> another program, have nothing to do with POV-Rayï¿½ they probably
havenï¿½t been
> hooked on the same program for more than twenty years. Without that
> long-standing obsession I would never have ended up building this thing in
> physical bricks.

That is great stuff! If anyone else wants to play around with this, I think
these are the required vertices and transformations. Not tested, but pasted
together from various files that work.

/* Coordinate values for a tetrahedron inside a dodecahedron with an edge
length of 1. This will match the scale used at
https://mathworld.wolfram.com/Tetrahedron5-Compound.html. */
#local P = (sqrt(5) + 3) / 4  // Phi / DODECAHEDRON_EDGE_LENGTH
#local V = 1 / 2  // Varphi / DODECAHEDRON_EDGE_LENGTH
#local N = (sqrt(5) + 1) / 4  // 1 / DODECAHEDRON_EDGE_LENGTH

#local Tetrahedron = array[4] { <0, P, -V>, <-P, -V, 0>, <N, -N, -N>, <V, 0, P>
}

#local Triangles = array[4][3] {
  { <Tetrahedron[0], Tetrahedron[1], Tetrahedron[2] },
  { <Tetrahedron[0], Tetrahedron[2], Tetrahedron[3] },
  { <Tetrahedron[0], Tetrahedron[3], Tetrahedron[1] },
  { <Tetrahedron[3], Tetrahedron[2], Tetrahedron[1] }
}

#local Q = P - 1

#local Transforms = array[5] {
  matrix <1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0>,
  matrix <Q, N, V, -N, V, -Q, -V, -Q, N, 0, 0, 0>,
  matrix <-N, V, Q, -V, -Q, -N, -Q, -N, V, 0, 0, 0>,
  matrix <-N, -V, -Q, V, -Q, -N, Q, -N, V, 0, 0, 0>,
  matrix <Q, -N, -V, N, V, -Q, V, -Q, N, 0, 0, 0>
}

[kurtzlepirate] Re: how do y'all make meshes?

Mon, 7 Sep 2026 15:10:26 GMT

On 06/09/2026 16:43, Demian wrote:
> Hi! I am a beginner to POV-Ray, and I have a question to experienced users: do
> you make meshes manually or use some app and then convert them? if an app, then
> what would you recommend?
> 
> Thanks :)
> 

hello Demian and welcome to POVRay.

to answer your question, I use:
  * manually for simple meshes.
  * generated by SDL.
  * by converting the files with my own programs or online converters.

-- 
klp
compagnie de la banquise

[kurtzlepirate] Re: My new desktop wallpaper

Mon, 7 Sep 2026 15:03:36 GMT

On 07/09/2026 12:33, Demian wrote:
> kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>> Here, the small version (800x450 - 146Ko) of my new wallpapar made today.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stats for original image @ 3200x1800 :
>>
>> * Parse Time: 0 hours  0 minutes 27 seconds (27.891 seconds)
>>                  using 1 thread(s) with 27.849 CPU-seconds total
>> * Radiosity Time: 0 hours  0 minutes 13 seconds (13.160 seconds)
>>                 using 6 thread(s) with 72.644 CPU-seconds total
>> * Trace Time:0 hours  0 minutes 36 seconds (36.322 seconds)
>>                using 6 thread(s) with 209.941 CPU-seconds total
>> * Render Options
>>     Antialiasing On, (Method 3, Threshold 0.000, Depth 3, Jitter 1.00,
>> Gamma 2.50)
>>
>>
>> I think it's pretty fast for an old Core i5 / 6 cores @ 3 GHz
>>
>>
>> Of course, I reused a lot of the work I had done on polyhedra
>> <https://louisbel.pages-perso.free.fr/scenes/scene030.shtml> and the 3D
>> -models of polyhedron from <https://dmccooey.com/polyhedra/index.html>.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> kurtz le pirate
>> compagnie de la banquise
> 
> I like it! how did you get that outline?
> 

thanks.

outline ? just cylinders between vertices.
have you checked out the page on polyhedra on my website?





-- 
klp
compagnie de la banquise

[Demian] Re: My new desktop wallpaper

Mon, 7 Sep 2026 10:35:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
> Here, the small version (800x450 - 146Ko) of my new wallpapar made today.
>
>
>
> Stats for original image @ 3200x1800 :
>
> * Parse Time: 0 hours  0 minutes 27 seconds (27.891 seconds)
>                 using 1 thread(s) with 27.849 CPU-seconds total
> * Radiosity Time: 0 hours  0 minutes 13 seconds (13.160 seconds)
>                using 6 thread(s) with 72.644 CPU-seconds total
> * Trace Time:0 hours  0 minutes 36 seconds (36.322 seconds)
>               using 6 thread(s) with 209.941 CPU-seconds total
> * Render Options
>    Antialiasing On, (Method 3, Threshold 0.000, Depth 3, Jitter 1.00,
> Gamma 2.50)
>
>
> I think it's pretty fast for an old Core i5 / 6 cores @ 3 GHz
>
>
> Of course, I reused a lot of the work I had done on polyhedra
> <https://louisbel.pages-perso.free.fr/scenes/scene030.shtml> and the 3D
> -models of polyhedron from <https://dmccooey.com/polyhedra/index.html>.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> kurtz le pirate
> compagnie de la banquise

I like it! how did you get that outline?

[Leroy] Re: how do y'all make meshes?

Mon, 7 Sep 2026 01:40:00 GMT

"Demian" <cuc### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Hi! I am a beginner to POV-Ray, and I have a question to experienced users: do
> you make meshes manually or use some app and then convert them? if an app, then
> what would you recommend?
>
> Thanks :)

Welcome to the wonderful world of POV! It always nice to see new users take up
the tool I love to play with. ingo & yesbird gave you a lot good info. I write
most of the meshes I use by hand. But I really don't use them in complicated
objects. POV has a lot of shapes, primitive & complex that can do some fantastic
stuff! (check them out:)
 When I first started with POV, I went at it like a dungeon & dragons game, that
is I try to do something, learned how POV did it and stuck that little fact into
my weapons bag. Pretty soon the bag was almost full then a new version. That was
awhile back. POV has grown since then. I still once in awhile grab a bow and go
looking for that dragon.

Have Fun!

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Sun, 6 Sep 2026 17:20:12 GMT

On 05/09/2026 19:30, Mike Miller wrote:
> Attached is a current progress rendering of this pumphouse. I hope to be rid of
> this project someday. ha-ha. miller

I like what I see here, but probably there are some other methods
of modelling water besides blobs ?
--
YB

[yesbird] Re: how do y'all make meshes?

Sun, 6 Sep 2026 16:45:46 GMT

On 06/09/2026 17:43, Demian wrote:
> Hi! I am a beginner to POV-Ray, and I have a question to experienced users: do
> you make meshes manually or use some app and then convert them? if an app, then
> what would you recommend?
> 
> Thanks :)
> 
Hi, Demian.

I can suggest you the following converter from popular formats
(obj,fbx,glb,gltf,stl):
http://povlab.yesbird.online/studio/

The most powerful (and expensive) mesh editors are C4D and ZBrush,
free alternatives are Blender, SculptGL, Mixos and many others ...
--
YB

[ingo] Re: how do y'all make meshes?

Sun, 6 Sep 2026 15:31:38 GMT

On 2026-09-06 16:43, Demian wrote:
> Hi! I am a beginner to POV-Ray, and I have a question to experienced users: do
> you make meshes manually or use some app and then convert them? if an app, then
> what would you recommend?

There's many ways. Modelers, by procedure, stitch manually, convert obj 
models to mesh2.

For procedural there is meshmaker.inc in the distribution and in the 
insert menu/special shapes/meshes by meshmaker.inc you can find examples 
for that.

For conversion (.obj files) there is Poseray. Also useful in combination 
with modelers as many don't support POV-Ray directly.

For modelers, there are a lot of them. Some free, many at relative low 
cost and the high end modellers. Almost all can export to .obj files.

Have fun!

ingo

[Demian] how do y'all make meshes?

Sun, 6 Sep 2026 14:45:00 GMT

Hi! I am a beginner to POV-Ray, and I have a question to experienced users: do
you make meshes manually or use some app and then convert them? if an app, then
what would you recommend?

Thanks :)

[Dave Blandston] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Sun, 6 Sep 2026 03:05:00 GMT

Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40643207

The early years of POV-Ray was an exciting time. There were many people working
on companion software (modelers, animation tools, et cetera). Maybe part of the
attraction of continuing to use POV-Ray, for me at least, is the psychological
link to the past.

[jr] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Sat, 5 Sep 2026 21:30:00 GMT

hi,
"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> Attached is a current progress rendering of this pumphouse. I hope to be rid of
> this project someday. ha-ha. miller

the "gloom" makes me wish for some "glow" :-)
<en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherenkov_radiation>


regards, jr.

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Sat, 5 Sep 2026 16:35:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> yesbird wrote:
> > On 28/08/2026 17:54, Mike Miller wrote:
> > > Thanks BE. I'll look into Rune & Koppi's work. I just posted an animation on my
> > > site of my current progress. I'm tweaking the topo and looking at vegetation
> > > ideas along with programming some practical effects (gas and/or venting liquid)
> >
> > Most of all I like twilight atmosphere and lightning - it's very cozy ).
> > Together with large-scale mechanical parts this scene creates very
> > specific impression. Looking forward for next steps.
> >
> > As to effects, may be this volume rendering example can help ?
> > https://paulbourke.net/miscellaneous/povexamples/
> > --
> > YB
>
>
> Thanks, YB. I'll take a look at that. I'm quickly running out of RAM on this
> scene. I had to pull back on some of my vegetation counts once I added a large
> blob practical effect. :) Attached is POV code using randomized spline
> transforms to run animate moving points along. I included some 'crushed' video
> to illustrate. Sorry we can't post anything bigger than 5 mg. I'll post higher
> res on my site. Have a blessed weekend.
> Mike

Attached is a current progress rendering of this pumphouse. I hope to be rid of
this project someday. ha-ha. miller

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Sat, 5 Sep 2026 16:15:01 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 28/08/2026 17:54, Mike Miller wrote:
> > Thanks BE. I'll look into Rune & Koppi's work. I just posted an animation on my
> > site of my current progress. I'm tweaking the topo and looking at vegetation
> > ideas along with programming some practical effects (gas and/or venting liquid)
>
> Most of all I like twilight atmosphere and lightning - it's very cozy ).
> Together with large-scale mechanical parts this scene creates very
> specific impression. Looking forward for next steps.
>
> As to effects, may be this volume rendering example can help ?
> https://paulbourke.net/miscellaneous/povexamples/
> --
> YB

Thanks, YB. I'll take a look at that. I'm quickly running out of RAM on this
scene. I had to pull back on some of my vegetation counts once I added a large
blob practical effect. :) Attached is POV code using randomized spline
transforms to run animate moving points along. I included some 'crushed' video
to illustrate. Sorry we can't post anything bigger than 5 mg. I'll post higher
res on my site. Have a blessed weekend.
Mike

[Maetes] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Sat, 5 Sep 2026 05:45:00 GMT

"Shay" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>
> This is POV-Ray. Everyone here is a masochist!

Ouh yes :)
The last few days I have asked myself countless times:
What nonsense am I working on again ...

Ma

[Chris Cason] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Sat, 5 Sep 2026 03:23:10 GMT

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40644828

"This is what I thought the internet would become, back in the 1990s, just tons of
projects like Povray. Not addictive dark pattern trillionaires, see the recent Eli
Gray article posted on HN how big tech enables link fraud for example. This was before
FAANG existed as it does now. Apple was a struggling PC maker and Microsoft was the
evil empire being challenged by a Finnish college student. Sun and SGI and DEC were
big tech and they made you knowâ€¦ actual tech. It was this crazy dream
that it would last like that forever, that the internet would just be one huge BBS of
Povray style people, makers and users, who were interested in art and science above
all else. Nobody was thinking you could contract third parties of poor people to
screen out death videos on your BBS so they would have PTSD but you could make
billions. Nobody was thinking to clickfarm children."

-- doubloon, June 11, 2024

[Chris Cason] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Sat, 5 Sep 2026 03:23:09 GMT

On 4/09/2026 13:38, Dave Blandston wrote:
> "Shay" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>> This is POV-Ray. Everyone here is a masochist!
> 
> I don't feel alone anymore. Thank you.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40643207

[s day] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Fri, 4 Sep 2026 17:05:00 GMT

"Shay" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

I am pretty sure I remember the original post for this (I think you may have
asked people to guess how it was made but that could apply to any number of your
images as they are often complex in nature and way beyond my math skills).

Great to see you back in the POV saddle, hoping to join you again one day soon
when life slows down.

Ahh, .zip files my favourite source control method.

[Dave Blandston] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Fri, 4 Sep 2026 03:40:00 GMT

"Shay" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> This is POV-Ray. Everyone here is a masochist!

I don't feel alone anymore. Thank you.

[Mike Miller] Re: img2mesh update

Thu, 3 Sep 2026 21:50:00 GMT

Ilya Razmanov <ily### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> as some might remember, img2mesh is a pure Python program for converting
> 2D image height fields into 3D triangle mesh, building somewhat
> interesting mesh geometry. Others may take a look at:
>
> https://dnyarri.github.io/img2mesh.html
>
> One of the interesting features of img2mesh is using different types of
> triangle splitting for smooth and sharp source areas, named geometry 3
> and 1, correspondingly. Geometry choice is based on local image contrast
> (currently on max abs difference within neighbour pixels window), more
> specifically, on results of applying user-defined threshold criterion to
> local contrast.
>
> Main reason for current img2mesh update is adding a threshold mask
> display to img2mesh GUI, so now user may easily switch between source
> image preview and mask representation, and edit threshold visually (an
> animated GUI screenshot is attached. Yes, I insist - it's animated, no
> matter what your newsreader says! After all, animated PNG recently
> became accepted as a part of PNG specs). I've spent several days trying
> to make a GUI which I myself wouldn't consider disgusting, so,
> hopefully, other people may find it useful as well.
>
> Simplest way to download img2mesh, as always, is visiting release page:
>
> https://github.com/Dnyarri/img2mesh/releases/latest
>
> --
> Ilyich the Toad
> https://dnyarri.github.io/

NICE! ...thanks for sharing. I'm currently working with a few height field
scenes. Having pre-calculated meshes to morph over time would be very cool to
play with.
Thank you
Miller

[Jim Henderson] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Thu, 3 Sep 2026 18:05:02 GMT

Hi, Chris!

FWIW, using the Pan newsreader that I've used for years, what I see most 
closely resembles the second screenshot - some of the punctuation shows up 
as an unknown unicode character.

Pan has been around for a long time, and was written to comply with a NNTP 
standard called GNKSA.

The default encoding it uses is UTF-8.
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Bald Eagle] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Thu, 3 Sep 2026 13:55:00 GMT

Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:

> There's been a number of complaints about this behavior so I did spend some time
today trying to at least get it to n
ot disappear the text, and it does appear to work now, though the characters in
question are replaced by default glyphs
.


Thanks!   That's much better.
I'll fix my Thunderbird the next time I get a chance to sit and catch a breath.

- BW

[Chris Cason] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Thu, 3 Sep 2026 12:23:26 GMT

On 2/09/2026 01:43, Bald Eagle wrote:
> So, I cannot see parts of this reply, presumably due to UTF-8/non-ASCII
> characters, and when I tried to use Thunderbird it said "connection refused."
> 
> Is this a website policy change, or something that I need to fix in my
> Thunderbird application?

If you are referring to text missing after the word "that" in line 3 of the post you
are replying to, it should not happen when viewing the NG via NNTP in Thunderbird
itself.

There was an issue viewing it in the web view, though.

The part that reads "Thatâ€™s a really nice render of the compound of
five tetrahedra â€” thank you for sharing it." had two characters that
were not being handled when the message was being rendered as UTF-8. These are the
chars 0x92 at offset 0x26 and 0x97 at offset 0x61.

00000000  22 53 68 61 79 22 20 3c  6e 6f 6d 61 69 6c 40 6e  |"Shay" <nomail@n|
00000010  6f 6d 61 69 6c 3e 20 77  72 6f 74 65 3a 0a 48 69  |omail> wrote:.Hi|
00000020  2c 0a 54 68 61 74 92 73  20 61 20 72 65 61 6c 6c  |,.That.s a reall|
00000030  79 20 6e 69 63 65 20 72  65 6e 64 65 72 20 6f 66  |y nice render of|
00000040  20 74 68 65 20 63 6f 6d  70 6f 75 6e 64 20 6f 66  | the compound of|
00000050  20 66 69 76 65 20 74 65  74 72 61 68 65 64 72 61  | five tetrahedra|
00000060  20 97 20 74 68 61 6e 6b  20 79 6f 75 20 66 6f 72  | . thank you for|

Both of these represent undefined codepoints in UTF-8 and the result of passing them
through the PHP htmlentities() function with the options that were in the code before
was to cause the text between the two points to vanish.

There's been a number of complaints about this behavior so I did spend some time today
trying to at least get it to not disappear the text, and it does appear to work now,
though the characters in question are replaced by default glyphs.

The proper fix is to convert each message to UTF-8 according to its declared encoding
(we do store this in the DB along with the message), but I don't have time to do that
right now so what's there will have to do. I have been working on the webview code
recently (RSS and sitemaps) and this matters for those, too, so it should get fixed in
the not too distant future.

FWIW see three attachments: one with the old behavior, one with the current, and one
with what it would look like with the codepage taken into account.

-- Chris

[ingo] Re: so stupid...

Thu, 3 Sep 2026 09:40:00 GMT

William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> On 9/2/26 01:56, ingo wrote:
> > That works fine. But now, how to create a second stream of streams? (do
> > I need that? In audio/DSP I use it to compare room reverbs, a new stream
> > of streams is a new room. Does it make sense for use in POV-Ray?)
>
> I don't know... :-)

Thanks for not knowing ;) and the information despite that,

ingo

[Leroy] Re: Walker occupation

Wed, 2 Sep 2026 19:10:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
>
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtcVVSn98xo&pp=ygUWbG9zdCBza2lsbHMgZ3JpbmRzdG9uZQ%3D%3D
>
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMNy93RzRyg&pp=ygUWbG9zdCBza2lsbHMgZ3JpbmRzdG9uZQ%3D%3D
>
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCMB1Mbpnew&pp=ygUWbG9zdCBza2lsbHMgZ3JpbmRzdG9uZQ%3D%3D
>
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nx2Ut7K8Is&pp=ygUWbG9zdCBza2lsbHMgZ3JpbmRzdG9uZdIHCQkaDAGHKiGM7w%3D%3D

Interesting videos!
If my ancestors work like that then I know why I'm a carpenter.
Though, 40 years later I still remember cutting a hole in a rock wall to put in
a door.

Have Fun!

[William F Pokorny] Re: so stupid...

Wed, 2 Sep 2026 17:27:04 GMT

On 9/2/26 01:56, ingo wrote:
> That works fine. But now, how to create a second stream of streams? (do 
> I need that? In audio/DSP I use it to compare room reverbs, a new stream 
> of streams is a new room. Does it make sense for use in POV-Ray?)

I don't know... :-)

Underneath the streams of evenly distributed random values is a hashing 
function - or sometimes a pre-calculated, cached set of 'random'/hashed 
values.

I don't remember (or perhaps never investigated) the seed()/rand() code 
implementation. I suspect it's a cached set of values - or perhaps a 
somewhat constrained hashing function - see below.

---

We have in our documentation interesting, example seed values for two 
streams:

#declare R1 = seed(0);
#declare R2 = seed(12345);

If you print the first four rand(R1 and R2 stream) values you get:

//  0.000 0.467
//  0.467 0.249
//  0.249 0.966
//  0.966 0.637

The R2 stream is one 'index' ahead of the R1 stream - which suggests 
value caching (An array of random values) or hashing code constraints 
for our seed()/rand() implementation.

---

Some general rules / suggestions :

1) Using zero as a seed, is with most numeric hashing functions, a bad 
idea because it initially - or always, depending - returns zero.

2) In POV-Ray use random-ish seed() values for each stream of multiple 
streams if you want to make value 'echoes', as happens above, less 
likely.

3) If you want the same stream of values for multiple independent 
streams you can use the same seed() value for those streams.

4) For sets for streams something like your approach workable I think. 
Or maybe something like:

#declare strmSetNum = 2;
#declare R1 = seed(98765 * strmSetNum);
#declare R2 = seed(12345 * StrmSetNum);

---

In the attached yuqk scene file I've included an example using the 
curious seed values from our documentation as mentioned above.

Plus, code showing how to implement seed()/rand() with yuqk's new 
inbuilt f_hash() function (a wrapper of C++'s hashing library function 
for doubles).

Using the f_hash() function directly (I think) makes it more apparent 
how the hashing function is getting used to create multiple streams of 
'random' values.

Bill P.

[ingo] Re: so stupid...

Wed, 2 Sep 2026 05:56:33 GMT

On 2026-09-01 21:49, Leroy wrote:

> You don't have to have an array of seed values!
> Every time you make a new seed POV's seed function adds that seed to an built_in
>   array and returns the element number of that array.
> So when you first start with #declare S=seed(35423); S=0;
> The next time you declare a seed like #declare R=seed(35423); then R=1; and so
> on...
> 
> So all you need to know is how many seeds you made.
> 
> You don't even have to use a variable in the random statement you can use the
> number!!
>   as in #declare A=rand(0);
> 
> I wouldn't call what you did as stupid. I just call it a habit. Like I've used
> sky_sphere forever for a simple sky and the other day going though the documents
> I found out that you could use layered pigments?! HABIT
> 
> Have Fun! 
> 
---%<------%<------%<---
#macro Sower(N, Seed)
   #local R0 = seed(Seed);
   #for (i, 0, N-1)
     #local s = seed(int(rand(R0)*10000));
   #end
#end


#declare N = 10;
#declare Seed = 7;

Sower(N, Seed)
//Sower(N, 8);

#for (i,0,9)
   #debug concat(str(rand(0),1,1), " ", str(rand(1),1,1),"\n")
#end
---%<------%<------%<---

That works fine. But now, how to create a second stream of streams? (do 
I need that? In audio/DSP I use it to compare room reverbs, a new stream 
of streams is a new room. Does it make sense for use in POV-Ray?)

ingo

[Bald Eagle] Re: Walker occupation

Tue, 1 Sep 2026 21:40:00 GMT

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Cousin Ricky" <rickysttATyahooDOTcom> wrote:
> > I did not watch this video, but the thumbnail caught my eye, as it reminded me
> > of 2 POV regulars.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ulYoTet20
>
> I had to watch the whole thing to see if Whetstone was on it. IT WASN'T
> It was all British names. They made a law that linked a person with their job.
> Whetstone probable has to deal with making such stones or sharping knifes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtcVVSn98xo&pp=ygUWbG9zdCBza2lsbHMgZ3JpbmRzdG9uZQ%3D%3D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMNy93RzRyg&pp=ygUWbG9zdCBza2lsbHMgZ3JpbmRzdG9uZQ%3D%3D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCMB1Mbpnew&pp=ygUWbG9zdCBza2lsbHMgZ3JpbmRzdG9uZQ%3D%3D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nx2Ut7K8Is&pp=ygUWbG9zdCBza2lsbHMgZ3JpbmRzdG9uZdIHCQkaDAGHKiGM7w%3D%3D

[Leroy] Re: Walker occupation

Tue, 1 Sep 2026 20:10:00 GMT

"Cousin Ricky" <rickysttATyahooDOTcom> wrote:
> I did not watch this video, but the thumbnail caught my eye, as it reminded me
> of 2 POV regulars.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ulYoTet20

I had to watch the whole thing to see if Whetstone was on it. IT WASN'T
It was all British names. They made a law that linked a person with their job.
Whetstone probable has to deal with making such stones or sharping knifes.
Cousin probable was the cousin of the king and didn't have to work:)

Have Fun!

[Ilya Razmanov] Re: img2mesh update

Tue, 1 Sep 2026 19:59:04 GMT

On 01.09.2026 19:46, William F Pokorny wrote:
> On 8/31/26 23:20, Ilya Razmanov wrote:
>> different types of triangle splitting for smooth and sharp source areas
> 
> Cool. What method / tool did you use for the encoding?
> 

Some APNG Assembler:

https://apngasm.sourceforge.net/

- it's pretty simple, just drag source PNGs in, set frame delays, and 
export;

plus subsequent compression with Oxipng:

https://github.com/oxipng/oxipng

- oxipng is my tool of choice for PNG compression now; it's way faster 
than ECT, does not destroy 16 bpc images, L/RGB in transparent areas etc 
unless I specifically tell it to do so, and, in general, just does what 
I want, not trying to pretend being smarter than me. I use it even for 
my custom icons - it can't handle ICO files, but I made some small 
pythonic thingy which does nothing but stick PNGs in ICO framework (that 
is, again, does not try to pretend being smarter than me), so I can 
build a set of PNGs, feed them to oxipng, then feed them to my reptile 
creature (not surprisingly, it's called "PNG Sanctifier"), and viola, I 
get exactly what I want.

-- 
Ilyich the Toad
https://dnyarri.github.io/

[Leroy] Re: so stupid...

Tue, 1 Sep 2026 19:50:00 GMT

ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> As I said in the title.... better version with multiple sowers
>
> ---%<------%<------%<---
> #macro Sower(N, Seed)
>    #local R0 = seed(Seed);
>    #local Seeds = array[N];
>    #for (i, 0, N-1)
>      #declare Seeds[i] = seed(int(rand(R0)*10000));
>    #end
>    Seeds
> #end
>
>
> #declare N = 10;
> #declare Seed = 7;
>
> #declare One = Sower(N, Seed);
> #declare Two = Sower(N, 8);
>
> //naming step is not needed per se.
> #declare RndStones = One[0];
> #declare RndFlowers = One[1];
>
>
> #for (i,0,9)
>    #debug concat(str(rand(RndStones),1,1), " ",
> str(rand(RndFlowers),1,1),"\n")
> #end
> ---%<------%<------%<---

You don't have to have an array of seed values!
Every time you make a new seed POV's seed function adds that seed to an built_in
 array and returns the element number of that array.
So when you first start with #declare S=seed(35423); S=0;
The next time you declare a seed like #declare R=seed(35423); then R=1; and so
on...

So all you need to know is how many seeds you made.

You don't even have to use a variable in the random statement you can use the
number!!
 as in #declare A=rand(0);

I wouldn't call what you did as stupid. I just call it a habit. Like I've used
sky_sphere forever for a simple sky and the other day going though the documents
I found out that you could use layered pigments?! HABIT

Have Fun!

[William F Pokorny] Re: Walker occupation

Tue, 1 Sep 2026 16:50:32 GMT

On 8/30/26 16:08, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> I did not watch this video, but the thumbnail caught my eye, as it reminded me
> of 2 POV regulars.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ulYoTet20

:-)

Expect many of us - Walkers or not - still do on occasion!

Bill P.

[William F Pokorny] Re: img2mesh update

Tue, 1 Sep 2026 16:46:11 GMT

On 8/31/26 23:20, Ilya Razmanov wrote:
> different types of triangle splitting for smooth and sharp source areas

Cool :-)

 > Animated png

Cool. What method / tool did you use for the encoding?

Bill P.

[William F Pokorny] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Tue, 1 Sep 2026 16:42:13 GMT

On 9/1/26 11:43, Bald Eagle wrote:
> So, I cannot see parts of this reply, presumably due to UTF-8/non-ASCII
> characters, and when I tried to use Thunderbird it said "connection refused."
> 
> Is this a website policy change, or something that I need to fix in my
> Thunderbird application?
> 
> - BE

Ref:

https://news.povray.org/povray.general/thread/%3Cweb.6a772e1743a59e128139023aa597fb8%40news.povray.org%3E/

For Thunderbird I went with:

"...changing to nntp.povray.org in the connection settings should work."

Bill P.

[Jim Henderson] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Tue, 1 Sep 2026 16:31:15 GMT

On Tue,  1 Sep 2026 11:43:18 EDT, Bald Eagle wrote:

> So, I cannot see parts of this reply, presumably due to UTF-8/non-ASCII
> characters, and when I tried to use Thunderbird it said "connection
> refused."

The Thunderbird issue is probably due to the NNTP server name change that 
happened a couple of weeks ago.  It used to be news.povray.org, but now 
uses a prefix of "nntp" instead of "news".

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Bald Eagle] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Tue, 1 Sep 2026 15:45:00 GMT

So, I cannot see parts of this reply, presumably due to UTF-8/non-ASCII
characters, and when I tried to use Thunderbird it said "connection refused."

Is this a website policy change, or something that I need to fix in my
Thunderbird application?

- BE

[ingo] Re: img2mesh update

Tue, 1 Sep 2026 13:19:51 GMT

On 2026-09-01 05:20, Ilya Razmanov wrote:
> as some might remember

I do. I like it.

Cheers,

ingo

[ingo] Re: so stupid...

Tue, 1 Sep 2026 13:18:43 GMT

As I said in the title.... better version with multiple sowers

---%<------%<------%<---
#macro Sower(N, Seed)
   #local R0 = seed(Seed);
   #local Seeds = array[N];
   #for (i, 0, N-1)
     #declare Seeds[i] = seed(int(rand(R0)*10000));
   #end
   Seeds
#end


#declare N = 10;
#declare Seed = 7;

#declare One = Sower(N, Seed);
#declare Two = Sower(N, 8);

//naming step is not needed per se.
#declare RndStones = One[0];
#declare RndFlowers = One[1];


#for (i,0,9)
   #debug concat(str(rand(RndStones),1,1), " ", 
str(rand(RndFlowers),1,1),"\n")
#end
---%<------%<------%<---

[ingo] so stupid...

Tue, 1 Sep 2026 13:12:16 GMT

// Normally I use one stream for everything, or I create one stream per 
subject
// in first case when I add something somewhere that needs the stream it 
also changes the rest of the scene.
// In the case of a stream per subject I have to change everything by 
hand if I want a different seed.

// Then, after decades of struggle ...

// yes you already knew how to do it but kept it secret, don't tell me.
// Makes me feel even worse :(

// It finally clicked:

// Change Seed and it all changes.
// Add something in between and give it its own seed and the rest stays 
the same.
// To change the seed for one subject, pick another number from the array

#macro Sower(N, Seed)
   #declare R0 = seed(Seed);
   #declare Seeds = array[N];
   #for (i, 0, N-1)
     #declare Seeds[i] = seed(int(rand(R0)*10000));
   #end
#end


#declare N = 10;
#declare Seed = 7;

Sower(N, Seed)

//naming step is not needed per se.
#declare RndStones = Seeds[0];
#declare RndFlowers = Seeds[1];


#for (i,0,9)
   #debug concat(str(rand(RndStones),1,1), " ", 
str(rand(RndFlowers),1,1),"\n")
#end

[Ilya Razmanov] img2mesh update

Tue, 1 Sep 2026 03:20:51 GMT

Greetings,

as some might remember, img2mesh is a pure Python program for converting 
2D image height fields into 3D triangle mesh, building somewhat 
interesting mesh geometry. Others may take a look at:

https://dnyarri.github.io/img2mesh.html

One of the interesting features of img2mesh is using different types of 
triangle splitting for smooth and sharp source areas, named geometry 3 
and 1, correspondingly. Geometry choice is based on local image contrast 
(currently on max abs difference within neighbour pixels window), more 
specifically, on results of applying user-defined threshold criterion to 
local contrast.

Main reason for current img2mesh update is adding a threshold mask 
display to img2mesh GUI, so now user may easily switch between source 
image preview and mask representation, and edit threshold visually (an 
animated GUI screenshot is attached. Yes, I insist - it's animated, no 
matter what your newsreader says! After all, animated PNG recently 
became accepted as a part of PNG specs). I've spent several days trying 
to make a GUI which I myself wouldn't consider disgusting, so, 
hopefully, other people may find it useful as well.

Simplest way to download img2mesh, as always, is visiting release page:

https://github.com/Dnyarri/img2mesh/releases/latest

-- 
Ilyich the Toad
https://dnyarri.github.io/

[B Gimeno] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Mon, 31 Aug 2026 19:55:00 GMT

"Shay" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
Hi,
That’s a really nice render of the compound of five tetrahedra — thank you
for
sharing it.
I especially appreciate the work you put into editing the mesh by hand. Getting
the intersections to look clean without automated CSG or a pre-made library is
no small task, and it shows. The classic “five tetrahedra” compound always
looks
deceptively simple until you actually try to build it.
I’ve been a bit obsessed with the same figure myself. Over the past months I
designed and published a few physical LEGO versions on BrickLink, in different
sizes and with different edge thicknesses (some more “wireframe”, some more
rigid). If anyone here also enjoys brick-built geometry, here they are:

https://www.bricklink.com/v3/studio/design.page?idModel=802912
https://www.bricklink.com/v3/studio/design.page?idModel=799698
https://www.bricklink.com/v3/studio/design.page?idModel=840837

I also have a small Python script that starts from a single base tetrahedron and
applies the right rotations and colours to generate the full compound. I’d be
happy to share it if anyone finds it useful.
Thanks again for posting this — it’s always a pleasure to see this old
favourite
treated with care in POV-Ray.

Best regards,
B. Gimeno


P.S. If anyone feels that links to another platform, or models rendered in
another program, have nothing to do with POV-Ray… they probably haven’t been
hooked on the same program for more than twenty years. Without that
long-standing obsession I would never have ended up building this thing in
physical bricks.

[Cousin Ricky] Walker occupation

Sun, 30 Aug 2026 20:10:00 GMT

I did not watch this video, but the thumbnail caught my eye, as it reminded me
of 2 POV regulars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ulYoTet20

[Bald Eagle] Re: Should I use presets?

Sun, 30 Aug 2026 11:40:00 GMT

Hello, and welcome to the forums!

POV-Ray has a weird and steep learning curve.

I would suggest constructing scenes "from either direction" to try to meet in
the middle.

Use pre-written scene code to take advantage of working syntax, rapidly
construct a large part of your scene, and push farther out than you would be
able to when learning from scratch.

Nothing kills learning like the frustration that comes from constant failure.
You need successes.

At the same time, you should be trying to accomplish tasks from scratch, using
keywords and things like loops and macros and arrays and dictionaries to learn
the language and understand how to make your life easier and more efficient.

There are a lot of shapes and concepts, as well as traps and pitfalls.
Learn the coordinate system, CSG, lighting, coincident surfaces, and texturing.

That ought to get you off to a good start.
Read all of the FAQs and tutorials, and don't be afraid to ask for help.
You may have to patiently wait for an answer, but you'll usually get what you
need in a day or two if you ask good questions with code examples.
(Poorly formed questions are hard to answer ;) )

Pick a task or a final scene goal, and use that as a way to learn things on your
journey to completing it.  Don't be lazy and skip stuff - the important things
are usually in the details, so dig down and understand things as deeply as
possible (or is practical).

Don't delete code.  You may have things almost correct, and you want to be able
to refer back to ideas.   Just start a new file, comment the non-working code
out, or paste it into a text file which is a collection of code snippets.

If you're going to re-use code (make the same kind of thing again and again) but
maybe the size or proportions are different, then learn to parameterize your
shapes using variables, rather than hard-coded "magic numbers".  Seriously. (*)

And by all means - HAVE FUN.   Try weird and wacky things.   Computer graphics
and POV-Ray allow you to do things that are quite interesting and even
impossible in the real world.  So don't be afraid to attempt things or ask about
what seem to be ridiculous graphics feats.  And don't let "error terror"
discourage you from writing your best guess at code and then trying to render
it.   It's important to learn what the parser errors mean so that you can move
past them quickly in the future.

- BE

(*) Think about equations for doing things, scaling up recipes, or how
spreadsheets are designed to be used.  The rigid mathematical "mechanics" allow
the flexibility of using variable input to get variable output.

Patterns are important in computer graphics.   Recognizing and exploiting
patterns can allow you to do things much more easily.

You don't have to "model every blade of grass" in a scene.  Learn how to fake
things so that you give the viewer _the impression_ that things exist where they
don't.

You can make "infinite" things in POV-Ray, when you understand how, and what
that means.  It can be a very useful tool that will save you work, memory,
computing power, and will render orders of magnitude faster that trying to
actually create an infinite number of "things" in your scene.

Learn what patterns and textures actually are, and how to apply them to your
objects.   This is a huge, and very basic lesson that you will use _everywhere_.
 Learn it early, learn it well.

Read the forums.   Go back and look at examples in the binary images section.
Observe how even some of the really great forum members have struggled with
things like math, CSG, lighting, syntax, etc.  Explore what people have done
here and make a list of things that you want to learn how to do.  Having a solid
purpose and a sense of wonder and curiosity is what will fuel you on your
journey and propel you to success!

[yesbird] Re: Should I use presets?

Sun, 30 Aug 2026 07:57:11 GMT

On 29/08/2026 23:02, Demian wrote:
> hello! I am a beginner in POV-Ray, and I often use preset scenes, textures,
> shapes, cameras, etc.
> Will this impact my learning or make me lazier?
> 

Hi, Demian.

Definitely, presets will make your learning curve more smooth - this is
the reason they exists. Think of them as about LEGO breaks you build
your scene from, but at the same time look in manual a for better
understanding.

This is the way I learned POVRay many years ago.
Happy POV-ing ).
--
YB

[Demian] Should I use presets?

Sat, 29 Aug 2026 20:05:00 GMT

hello! I am a beginner in POV-Ray, and I often use preset scenes, textures,
shapes, cameras, etc.
Will this impact my learning or make me lazier?

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Fri, 28 Aug 2026 21:04:11 GMT

On 28/08/2026 17:54, Mike Miller wrote:
> Thanks BE. I'll look into Rune & Koppi's work. I just posted an animation on my
> site of my current progress. I'm tweaking the topo and looking at vegetation
> ideas along with programming some practical effects (gas and/or venting liquid)

Most of all I like twilight atmosphere and lightning - it's very cozy ).
Together with large-scale mechanical parts this scene creates very
specific impression. Looking forward for next steps.

As to effects, may be this volume rendering example can help ?
https://paulbourke.net/miscellaneous/povexamples/
-- 
YB

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Fri, 28 Aug 2026 14:55:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> This is really giving me the "Gates of Durin" / "Mines of Moria" vibe.
>
> I would imagine that Rune wrote some sort of particle physics thing.
> Koppi's particle physics playground.
> I'd also highly suggest "10 minute physics" on YT.
>
> Somehow all of this eye candy is so much better because I know it's being
> rendered with POV-Ray.
>
> - BE

Thanks BE. I'll look into Rune & Koppi's work. I just posted an animation on my
site of my current progress. I'm tweaking the topo and looking at vegetation
ideas along with programming some practical effects (gas and/or venting liquid)
Miller

[Shay] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Thu, 27 Aug 2026 18:55:00 GMT

"Cousin Ricky" <rickysttATyahooDOTcom> wrote:
>
> Hand-coded mesh?  And I thought I was a masochist!

This is POV-Ray. Everyone here is a masochist!

FWIW, this isn't even scraping the masochism surface. I've done so much worse in
POV-Ray.

[Bald Eagle] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Thu, 27 Aug 2026 18:20:00 GMT

"Cousin Ricky" <rickysttATyahooDOTcom> wrote:
> "Shay" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> >
> > - No CSG. This is all hand-coded mesh. ...
>
> Hand-coded mesh?  And I thought I was a masochist!

I've done it before on a few occasions, simply because for special instances, it
does turn out to be easier.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Thu, 27 Aug 2026 15:45:00 GMT

"Shay" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>
> - No CSG. This is all hand-coded mesh. ...

Hand-coded mesh?  And I thought I was a masochist!

[Bald Eagle] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Thu, 27 Aug 2026 01:10:00 GMT

This is really giving me the "Gates of Durin" / "Mines of Moria" vibe.

I would imagine that Rune wrote some sort of particle physics thing.
Koppi's particle physics playground.
I'd also highly suggest "10 minute physics" on YT.

Somehow all of this eye candy is so much better because I know it's being
rendered with POV-Ray.

- BE

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Wed, 26 Aug 2026 22:05:01 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > yesbird wrote:
> > > On 09/08/2026 15:46, Mike Miller wrote:
> > > > I'm still trying to visualize what is happening on the lower 'entry' level. I
> > > > picture the camera starting at the base of a 'cooling' liquid pool and pipes
> > > > with the camera drifting up the stairs and towards the tunnel entrance.
Attached
> > > > are my current thoughts on the lower level, but I'm still looking at some
> > > > reference, so the design may change. :)
> > >
> > > I like what I see and your images remind me of my childhood when
> > >
> > > I guess finding the optimal camera path can be done easily in
> > > Blender first.
> > > --
> > > YB
> >
> > Yep, I'm definitely using Blender for quick camera angle studies. I jumped into
> > Lumion this morning to start modeling a possible topo terrain and to get a
> > better idea of how much foreground modeling I have. Attached are some quick
> > screen studies from Lumion of what I have so far. I'll be able to export the
> > ..raw height field map to duplicate in POV.
> > Mike.
>
> Attached are some POV progress renderings of my pumphouse project. I'm finishing
> up the topo and have a few more mechanical pipes to model. It's turning into
> more into a fantasy piece than I had original pictured. I'll be adding
> vegetation to the topo and a yet to be designed creature. I'm also thinking
> about adding a 'particle/blob' form venting out one of the pipes. I'm assuming
> someone has written a POV 3D particle generator? some kind of an emitter with an
> object/position array? Not sure I'm ready to tackle the programming or re-invent
> the wheel if there's good working examples. :)
>
> Mike


SORRY... That PDF was no good. Here's a jpeg of what I described above. I see my
hare return formatting is all over the place. :)

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Wed, 26 Aug 2026 21:05:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> yesbird wrote:
> > On 09/08/2026 15:46, Mike Miller wrote:
> > > I'm still trying to visualize what is happening on the lower 'entry' level. I
> > > picture the camera starting at the base of a 'cooling' liquid pool and pipes
> > > with the camera drifting up the stairs and towards the tunnel entrance. Attached
> > > are my current thoughts on the lower level, but I'm still looking at some
> > > reference, so the design may change. :)
> >
> > I like what I see and your images remind me of my childhood when
> >
> > I guess finding the optimal camera path can be done easily in
> > Blender first.
> > --
> > YB
>
> Yep, I'm definitely using Blender for quick camera angle studies. I jumped into
> Lumion this morning to start modeling a possible topo terrain and to get a
> better idea of how much foreground modeling I have. Attached are some quick
> screen studies from Lumion of what I have so far. I'll be able to export the
> ..raw height field map to duplicate in POV.
> Mike.

Attached are some POV progress renderings of my pumphouse project. I'm finishing
up the topo and have a few more mechanical pipes to model. It's turning into
more into a fantasy piece than I had original pictured. I'll be adding
vegetation to the topo and a yet to be designed creature. I'm also thinking
about adding a 'particle/blob' form venting out one of the pipes. I'm assuming
someone has written a POV 3D particle generator? some kind of an emitter with an
object/position array? Not sure I'm ready to tackle the programming or re-invent
the wheel if there's good working examples. :)

Mike

[Shay] Re: Centipede Arcade Game Control Panel Artwork

Wed, 26 Aug 2026 19:10:00 GMT

"Dave Blandston" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> ....And here's the artwork applied to the box, also rendered with POV-Ray of
> course.
>
> By the way, thanks to Bald Eagle for telling me about the Send Cut Send metal
> fabrication business. I had them make a metal plate with mounting studs for the
> volcano buttons and it turned out great. Unfortunately, Send Cut Send cannot
> work directly with .pov files but their clever AI thing did a very good job of
> interpreting a POV-Ray generated image so that's almost as good.
>
> Kind regards,
> Dave Blandston

That is clean! Love it.

[Shay] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Wed, 26 Aug 2026 14:30:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Shay" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> > > On 2026-08-26 05:04, Shay wrote:
> > > > All these decades later, I still don't
> > > > have the patience to wait for CSG.
> > >
> > > especially for csg with planes and all kind of complex shape
> > > intersections, bounded_by can be quite a speedup.
> > >
> > In many cases, yes. But here, most of the bounds would overlap. And since the
> > shapes are not strictly convex, you'd be dealing with a lot of intersections of
> > intersections of planes. And you'd also probably have to minimize or eliminate
> > coincident edges to eliminate rendering errors ...
> >
> > You might even surpass the number of triangles.
>
> give my 'Bounder()' macro a try ?  does sound like an "ideal case" :-).
> <wiki.povray.org/content/User:Jr>
>
>
> regards, jr.

Nothing is more "POV-Ray" than a link to a zip file on a wiki instead of a
GitHub repo. There's still a culture around here that hasn't changed in decades.
It's great to see how it has endured.

I can see what your macro is doing, and it would work for bounding boxes, but
bounding boxes are a poor fit over any tetrahedron, and the bounding boxes would
in this case all overlap across most of the geometry.

And that would be a lot of geometry. Each tetrahedron face is built like a
compressed, beveled cube. A cube like that is an intersection of 26 planes. Now
extrude that across an L shaped path and the numbers start going up fast,
especially since many of the planes used to construct the cube would have to be
intersected themselves to keep them from colliding with other parts along the
path.

It would be straightforward with a series of macros, but there's no way around
being slow.

[jr] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Wed, 26 Aug 2026 08:35:00 GMT

hi,

"Shay" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> > On 2026-08-26 05:04, Shay wrote:
> > > All these decades later, I still don't
> > > have the patience to wait for CSG.
> >
> > especially for csg with planes and all kind of complex shape
> > intersections, bounded_by can be quite a speedup.
> >
> In many cases, yes. But here, most of the bounds would overlap. And since the
> shapes are not strictly convex, you'd be dealing with a lot of intersections of
> intersections of planes. And you'd also probably have to minimize or eliminate
> coincident edges to eliminate rendering errors ...
>
> You might even surpass the number of triangles.

give my 'Bounder()' macro a try ?  does sound like an "ideal case" :-).
<wiki.povray.org/content/User:Jr>


regards, jr.

[Shay] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Wed, 26 Aug 2026 06:50:00 GMT

ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> On 2026-08-26 05:04, Shay wrote:
> > All these decades later, I still don't
> > have the patience to wait for CSG.
>
> especially for csg with planes and all kind of complex shape
> intersections, bounded_by can be quite a speedup.
>
> ingo

In many cases, yes. But here, most of the bounds would overlap. And since the
shapes are not strictly convex, you'd be dealing with a lot of intersections of
intersections of planes. And you'd also probably have to minimize or eliminate
coincident edges to eliminate rendering errors ...

You might even surpass the number of triangles.

[ingo] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Wed, 26 Aug 2026 05:54:04 GMT

On 2026-08-26 05:04, Shay wrote:
> All these decades later, I still don't
> have the patience to wait for CSG.

especially for csg with planes and all kind of complex shape 
intersections, bounded_by can be quite a speedup.

ingo

[Shay] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Wed, 26 Aug 2026 03:05:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Shay" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>
> Really nice job!
>
> Is this a "compound of 5 tetrahedra"?
>
> Did you work out the cutouts on the tetrahedra yourself?
> Are all of the facets made by CSG, or is it a "mesh" or collection of triangles
> of some sort?
>
> - BE

Thank you.

- Yes, it is a compound of 5 tetrahedra.
- Yes, I worked out the cutouts myself.
- No CSG. This is all hand-coded mesh. All these decades later, I still don't
have the patience to wait for CSG. It would be doable as an intersection of
planes, but I still remember downloading an old IRTC entry of blue houses that
were all intersections of planes. Took FOREVER to render.

Found it: https://www.irtc.org/ftp/pub/stills/2002-08-31/golonls2.jpg

[Bald Eagle] Re: Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Tue, 25 Aug 2026 21:10:00 GMT

"Shay" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

Really nice job!

Is this a "compound of 5 tetrahedra"?

Did you work out the cutouts on the tetrahedra yourself?
Are all of the facets made by CSG, or is it a "mesh" or collection of triangles
of some sort?

- BE

[Mike Miller] Re: is this website still alive?

Tue, 25 Aug 2026 15:00:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Demian" <cuc### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > hi! I am a beginner in POV-Ray and I have been searching for a group where I can
> > talk about it. is this website still alive?
>
> yes.  and "hello" :-).
>
>
> regards, jr.

Hello. This is a great site, and everyone here are friendly nerds that love 3D,
programming and raytracing. I've been visiting this site forever and there's so
much knowledge here to be gained. Best wishes
Miller

[Shay] Rebuilding an old scene from 2004

Mon, 24 Aug 2026 14:15:00 GMT

I made an image pretty much like this one in 2004. I went on to some more
complex things, but this one somehow became an unofficial personal brand. I use
it on websites like GitHub where I for whatever reason elect not to use a photo
as my profile picture. Occasionally, I log in somewhere I haven't been for a
while and am surprised to see I'd been there before and left this image.

I wanted to rebuild this from over 20 years ago just to see if I still have the
trig chops. The answer to that is ... maybe. I know more now, and I've written
thousands of lines of "scaffolding" around vector math in the last 20 years, and
I can interrogate 3 AIs in my code editor ... but I needed all of it. I've got
more knowledge and better tools, but my intuition for this kind of 3d
manipulation has diminished.

But the bigger problem may be that I have more of a desire to write re-usable
code, which is a massive time sink. Back when I was doing POV-Ray, I solved a
lot of problems on paper, then threw away the paper. My old POV code is brimming
with "magic numbers". In a way, my approach was better then: I "kept my eyes on
the prize."

That being said, it's pretty much the same as the original, and it's still hand
coded and it was fun. I even made a version with a 14-pass "shader" just like we
used to do. The one here is just lighting.

[koppi] Re: towers of hanoi

Sun, 23 Aug 2026 20:10:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> that makes two of us </grin>.  thanks for the invitation, I hope to get round to
> it this week.  cheers.

Hi all,

I have updated the peg shapes and textures.

You can see the video of the 7 disks version here:
https://youtu.be/pzjSfkN2DG4

I also uploaded the hanoi.pov file to GitHub:
https://github.com/koppi/povray-animations

Best regards,
koppi

[jr] Re: is this website still alive?

Sun, 23 Aug 2026 13:50:00 GMT

hi,

"Demian" <cuc### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi! I am a beginner in POV-Ray and I have been searching for a group where I can
> talk about it. is this website still alive?

yes.  and "hello" :-).


regards, jr.

[Demian] is this website still alive?

Sun, 23 Aug 2026 12:25:00 GMT

hi! I am a beginner in POV-Ray and I have been searching for a group where I can
talk about it. is this website still alive?

[jr] Re: pls make a app...

Fri, 21 Aug 2026 11:30:00 GMT

hi,

"" wrote:
> > >  it would be helpful if you could post additional information on the bug (?),
> > ...
> i realized that i can use moray to have preview and its great!
>
> - Emirhan

problem solved, good news :-), thanks.


regard, jr.

[] Re: pls make a app...

Thu, 20 Aug 2026 21:05:00 GMT

> >  it would be helpful if you could post additional information on the bug (?),
> yeah... i know... idk if my laptop having a bug or something. i just tried it
> again but when i move object, it doesn't move. idk if i can solve this (im a
> begineer)

i realized that i can use moray to have preview and its great!

- Emirhan

[ingo] Re: Termux !!!

Thu, 20 Aug 2026 16:55:00 GMT

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:

> The Holy Trinity in one room !!!!

One of them would be enough ;) I have 3 moto g6 plus' doing nothing. Any way to
do distributed rendering on android 9?

How "fast" is a processor on a phone? I have no clue.

Chipset Qualcomm SDM630 Snapdragon 630 (14 nm)
CPU  Octa-core 2.2 GHz Cortex-A53
GPU  Adreno 508

My only experiment with termux was running my TUI RPN on it. I find these phones
very cumbersome, but for a little render farm, who knows.

ingo

[ingo] Re: looking for a Ron Parker macro or scene

Thu, 20 Aug 2026 11:35:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>
> > I did a number of v3.7 & v3.8 renders vs yuqk renders
>
> Nice!
>
> This looks like a similar pattern posted by Mike Williams, and also a bit like
> the patterns by Tek that I animated.
>
> I would imagine that there are tons of variations we could do with this, as well
> as perhaps applying "attractors" to vary the pattern.
>
> - BE

I had a somewhat similar idea for patterns. First create a "WorleyForceFiled", a
smooth vector field pointing away from every nearby Worley feature point.

This you can feed into a domain warp that pushes the pattern away a bit, or
pulls it in. Inspired by the black hole warp but without the black holes and
somewhat different.

In my ray-tracer source:

proc worleyWarp*(
    p: PatternSpec,
    amount: float32 = 1.0f,
    radius: float32 = 1.2f,
    seed: int64 = 0,
    searchRadius: int = 1,
): PatternSpec =

  let force = worleyForceField(seed, radius, searchRadius)
  let displaceFn = proc(point: Vec3): Vec3 {.gcsafe.} =
    point + force(point) * amount
  warpedBy(p, displaceFn)

it works, but the ray-tracer as a whole currently not, so no pretty pictures.

ingo

[jr] Re: towers of hanoi

Wed, 19 Aug 2026 22:00:00 GMT

hi,

koppi <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>...
> jr, if you could improve the textures / lightning, this would be awesome
> (as I do not have the super texturing skills).

that makes two of us </grin>.  thanks for the invitation, I hope to get round to
it this week.  cheers.


regards, jr.

[jr] Re: Refreshing newgroup pages

Wed, 19 Aug 2026 21:20:00 GMT

hi,

Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
> ... I'm now telling Cloudflare to bypass its own cache, but also telling it to send
an expire time of one minute to t
he browser.

works for me, thx.


regards, jr.

[Chris Cason] Re: Refreshing newgroup pages

Wed, 19 Aug 2026 20:22:16 GMT

On 19/08/2026 23:15, Bald Eagle wrote:
> I noticed yesterday that I missed out on around 2 days of messages because
> reloading the full message page didn't update the posts.
> 
> This morning, I KNEW that there were messages, and that I had posted some as
> well, but had difficulties getting the digest to refresh the posted messages.
> 
> I had to go a roundabout way to get an updated digest page.
> Maybe this has to do with all the cloudflare stuff - I dunno.

I do have a cache bypass rule for the digests configured in cloudflare. However the
specifics of it have changed a bit over the last few days, and it could be your
browser cached a longer expire time. I'm now telling Cloudflare to bypass its own
cache, but also telling it to send an expire time of one minute to the browser.

If you are still getting issues please let me know the exact URL you are having
problems with and also, if you can, give me the full headers of the response. These
can be accessed if you have your browser's developer tools open at the time you load
the page, and go to the network pane.

[koppi] Re: towers of hanoi

Wed, 19 Aug 2026 20:00:14 GMT

On 8/18/26 20:56, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Mathologer episode:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbonokcLbNo
> 
> minimum 1023 moves for the shortest solution.

Oh! - And there is even a book about the tower of hanoi problem, will 
order it, thanks Bald for sharing!

Best regards,
koppi

[koppi] Re: towers of hanoi

Wed, 19 Aug 2026 19:41:11 GMT

On 8/18/26 12:16, jr wrote:
> thanks for yesterday's post.  the 'pegs' are a little too "bright" perhaps, but
> wow, very nice indeed.  looking forward to playing with today's code :-), later.
jr, if you could improve the textures / lightning, this would be awesome 
(as I do not have the super texturing skills).

Best gregards,
koppi

[jr] Re: Refreshing newgroup pages

Wed, 19 Aug 2026 13:30:00 GMT

hi,

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> I noticed yesterday that I missed out on around 2 days of messages because
> reloading the full message page didn't update the posts.
>
> This morning, I KNEW that there were messages, and that I had posted some as
> well, but had difficulties getting the digest to refresh the posted messages.
>
> I had to go a roundabout way to get an updated digest page.
> Maybe this has to do with all the cloudflare stuff - I dunno.

correct, yes, Cloudflare.  Chris posted a few days ago about it being necessary.
 here I have to Shift-Reload, always, or I get a stale, "cached" page (using
Chrome).


regards, jr.

[Bald Eagle] Refreshing newgroup pages

Wed, 19 Aug 2026 13:20:00 GMT

I noticed yesterday that I missed out on around 2 days of messages because
reloading the full message page didn't update the posts.

This morning, I KNEW that there were messages, and that I had posted some as
well, but had difficulties getting the digest to refresh the posted messages.

I had to go a roundabout way to get an updated digest page.
Maybe this has to do with all the cloudflare stuff - I dunno.

Just thought I'd mention it.

- BE

[Maetes] Re: pool water

Wed, 19 Aug 2026 12:15:00 GMT

"David Kraics" <bar### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> Hello. I'm doing a render of a building with a roof top pool. I got the shape
> perfect, but I need help with a texture. Light blue with a little transparency.
> Does anyone have any suggestions?

maybe try out this tutorial.

https://www.f-lohmueller.de/pov_tut/backgrnd/p_wat1.htm

ma

[Bald Eagle] Re: pool water

Wed, 19 Aug 2026 10:40:00 GMT

> Light blue with a little transparency.
> > Does anyone have any suggestions?

Probably gonna need an interior with ior > 1

Try Fountain

https://paulbourke.net/miscellaneous/scc5/final.html

Also look for scenes using caustics, perhaps in the distro.

- BE

[jr] Re: pool water

Wed, 19 Aug 2026 06:30:00 GMT

hi,

"David Kraics" <bar### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> Hello. I'm doing a render of a building with a roof top pool. I got the shape
> perfect, but I need help with a texture. Light blue with a little transparency.
> Does anyone have any suggestions?

perhaps you can (re)use the water from the benchmark scene ?  the F Lohmueller
site too has some good water, in several of his examples.
<www.povray.org/download/benchmark.php>

regards, jr.

[David Kraics] pool water

Wed, 19 Aug 2026 04:40:00 GMT

Hello. I'm doing a render of a building with a roof top pool. I got the shape
perfect, but I need help with a texture. Light blue with a little transparency.
Does anyone have any suggestions?

[Bald Eagle] Re: Made from a Coons patch

Wed, 19 Aug 2026 00:45:00 GMT

"Tor Olav Kristensen" <tor### [at] TOBEREMOVEDgmailcom> wrote:

> I have now reviewed your code thoroughly and found a lot of great work. It is
> especially impressive that you got all the polynomial functions for the Bezier
> surface and their derivatives exactly right when writing them out explicitly.

:D  Thanks Tor.  I had a big pile of paper, as well as a very large piece of
paper that I worked it all out on during my lunch breaks.

> At first your code looked a bit cryptic to me, but once I understood more about
> the curvature calculations, I found it easy to follow. You have structured it
> well.

{Whew!}  I'll take that as high praise.
I've learned a lot, and I've especially learned a lot from you.

> Visualizing the du, dv, and normal vectors with cylinders is a nice debugging
> tool.

And I can assure you that there was a lot of debugging  ;)

> During my testing, I did notice a few minor issues in the code. To help out,
> I've put together a few suggested corrections:

Yeah - I seem to have sort of strange dyslexia, and I know that I've swapped a
lot of u's and v's.  I'll give it a whirl.

> Replacing line 747 with those contrasting exterior and interior textures makes
> it easy to visually verify that the surface normals are facing the correct
> direction:

Also an excellent method.

> Finally, it's interesting and fun to dig into your code, so I hope that you
> continue exploring this topic.

I did a lot of work, and then someone ... used most of it on YT without any
attribution.  Must be fun to monetize other's work.

WRT to normals, I was digging pretty deeply into the normals source code -
specifically the tetrahedron.  Inigo Quilez points to a French site that uses
the method, but it's obvious that the origins are MUCH earlier.

Then the French guy used my work without any attribution as well.

I've since left my crappy warehouse job and am managing a business that I'm
heavily invested in, so I haven't had much time to wrap up past projects or
spearhead new topics.  But things change, so maybe I'll have lots more time at
some point in the future.

Thank you as always for the kind words, the tutelage, and the unwavering
encouragement to try new things and do more.

- BW

[Bald Eagle] Re: looking for a Ron Parker macro or scene

Tue, 18 Aug 2026 19:00:00 GMT

William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:

> I did a number of v3.7 & v3.8 renders vs yuqk renders

Nice!

This looks like a similar pattern posted by Mike Williams, and also a bit like
the patterns by Tek that I animated.

I would imagine that there are tons of variations we could do with this, as well
as perhaps applying "attractors" to vary the pattern.

- BE

[Bald Eagle] Re: towers of hanoi

Tue, 18 Aug 2026 19:00:00 GMT

Mathologer episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbonokcLbNo

minimum 1023 moves for the shortest solution.

[Bald Eagle] Re: change "object" keyword to something more ex...

Tue, 18 Aug 2026 14:15:00 GMT

"Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
is there actually any use for
> writing:
> object{sphere<0,0,0>1}
> instead of
> sphere<0,0,0>1

There may be a case where automated/script generated code would be easier to
write if object{sphere<0,0,0>1} is a valid construct.

- BE

[jr] Re: towers of hanoi

Tue, 18 Aug 2026 10:30:00 GMT

hi,

kurtzlepirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> On 16/08/2026 13:48, jr wrote:
> > ...
> > the POV-Ray parser can do recursion, any chance of your trying to make a SDL
> > implementation ?
> yes of course.
> ... but from there on, it's difficult to implement the movement of the
> discs to turn it into an animation. I never really found a solution. The
> project fell through :(
> If anyone has the heart...

sorry, v nearly forgot.

given we have the moves, which could be put in a csv type file, creating the
animation should not be too difficult from there.  lmk please what you think,
would be happy to see if the project can be "resurrected".

regards, jr.

[jr] Re: towers of hanoi

Tue, 18 Aug 2026 10:20:00 GMT

hi,

koppi <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> ... Attached is the version with recursion + animation.

thanks for yesterday's post.  the 'pegs' are a little too "bright" perhaps, but
wow, very nice indeed.  looking forward to playing with today's code :-), later.


regards, jr.

[jr] Re: looking for a Ron Parker macro or scene

Tue, 18 Aug 2026 10:20:00 GMT

hi,

William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> :-) Hah! I do miss banging on POV-Ray with you guys. Maybe I'll more
> play time this winter.

that would be good.  who knows, maybe the winter will be long enough to see you
getting "bored" and adding an '-into' option ;-).  cheers.

@ingo
.... coffee ...
(sorry.. ;-))

regards, jr.

[koppi] Re: towers of hanoi

Tue, 18 Aug 2026 04:01:20 GMT

On 8/17/26 16:39, kurtzlepirate wrote:
> On 16/08/2026 13:48, jr wrote:
> 
> invoked in this way:
> tower_of_hanoi(NumDisk, "1", "3", "2")
> 
> ... but from there on, it's difficult to implement the movement of the 
> discs to turn it into an animation. I never really found a solution. The 
> project fell through :(
> 
> 
> If anyone has the heart...

Did not know, it is possible with macros. Attached is the version with 
recursion + animation.

Happy POVing,
koppi

[kurtzlepirate] Re: looking for a Ron Parker macro or scene

Mon, 17 Aug 2026 15:00:35 GMT

On 16/08/2026 15:54, ingo wrote:

> 
> Found it
> ---%<------%<------%<------%<---
> // Arabesque_tile by Ron Parker
 >
> [snip]>

Really very interesting. Thanks for sharing.




-- 
klp
compagnie de la banquise

[kurtzlepirate] Re: towers of hanoi

Mon, 17 Aug 2026 14:39:34 GMT

On 16/08/2026 13:48, jr wrote:
> hi,
> 
> koppi <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> I solved the "towers of hanoi" puzzle using an iterative solver with an
>> explicit stack inside the bullet physics playground.
>> ... hanoi.lua
> 
> the POV-Ray parser can do recursion, any chance of your trying to make a SDL
> implementation ?
> 
> 
> regards, jr.
> 

yes of course.

writing the macro is really very simple. my old project about tower of 
hanoi:
// -----------------------------------------
// num	  : number of disc
// source : string
// dest	  : string
// helper : string
// -----------------------------------------
#macro tower_of_hanoi(num, source, dest, helper)
  #if ( num = 1 )
   Display(1,source,dest)
  #else	
   tower_of_hanoi(num - 1, source, helper, dest)
   Display(num,source,dest)
   tower_of_hanoi(num - 1, helper, dest, source)
  #end
#end


invoked in this way:
tower_of_hanoi(NumDisk, "1", "3", "2")


for NumDisk = 5 for exemple, this macro give:
(roman numerals refer to the discs, arabic numerals towers)

For 5 pieces, 31 moves are required.
Sequence :
001 : Move disk I from 1 to 3
002 : Move disk II from 1 to 2
003 : Move disk I from 3 to 2
004 : Move disk III from 1 to 3
005 : Move disk I from 2 to 1
006 : Move disk II from 2 to 3
007 : Move disk I from 1 to 3
008 : Move disk IV from 1 to 2
009 : Move disk I from 3 to 2
010 : Move disk II from 3 to 1
011 : Move disk I from 2 to 1
012 : Move disk III from 3 to 2
013 : Move disk I from 1 to 3
014 : Move disk II from 1 to 2
015 : Move disk I from 3 to 2
016 : Move disk V from 1 to 3
017 : Move disk I from 2 to 1
018 : Move disk II from 2 to 3
019 : Move disk I from 1 to 3
020 : Move disk III from 2 to 1
021 : Move disk I from 3 to 2
022 : Move disk II from 3 to 1
023 : Move disk I from 2 to 1
024 : Move disk IV from 2 to 3
025 : Move disk I from 1 to 3
026 : Move disk II from 1 to 2
027 : Move disk I from 3 to 2
028 : Move disk III from 1 to 3
029 : Move disk I from 2 to 1
030 : Move disk II from 2 to 3
031 : Move disk I from 1 to 3


... but from there on, it's difficult to implement the movement of the 
discs to turn it into an animation. I never really found a solution. The 
project fell through :(


If anyone has the heart...



-- 
klp
compagnie de la banquise

[William F Pokorny] Re: looking for a Ron Parker macro or scene

Mon, 17 Aug 2026 11:01:20 GMT

On 8/17/26 01:31, ingo wrote:
> On 2026-08-16 21:56, William F Pokorny wrote:
>> Results have me wondering how old POV-Ray versions rendered the scene, 
>> but I don't have any old compiles handy and no more time to play...
> 
> I found it in obscure directory with house renovation files dated 2003 
> and 2006. My guess it would have been made with POV-Ray 3.1
> 
> ingo

Thank you (& jr) for the additional information.

I woke up this morning remembering I released R15 of yuqk with the 
crackle cache disabled (a hack). It was done so I would always have 
handy crackle results without bad results due same thread cache 
collisions. Running this version showed no changes in the crackle solid 
color distribution.

I then decided to read my own yuqk release notes... I ran across this 
for R16: "Of note, the dependency the ip_solid option had on the noise 
generators was removed."

(ip_solid being yuqk's new internal pattern keyword for solid)

I've updated the release notes for this change to read:

Of note, the dependency the ip_solid option had on the noise generators 
was removed. This done so the solid values generated are evenly 
distributed between zero and one rather than being a sloppy, 
normalized/Gaussian set of values roughly centered about 0.5.

The color differences are due an intentional change to yuqk that I'd 
forgotten!

Bill P.

[William F Pokorny] Re: looking for a Ron Parker macro or scene

Mon, 17 Aug 2026 11:00:02 GMT

On 8/17/26 01:27, jr wrote:
> +1.  seeing the pattern, immediately a question of "cosmic importance"
ðŸ™‚ came
> to mind, attached.

:-) Hah! I do miss banging on POV-Ray with you guys. Maybe I'll more 
play time this winter.

Bill P.

[koppi] Re: towers of hanoi

Mon, 17 Aug 2026 08:15:30 GMT

On 8/16/26 13:48, jr wrote:
> the POV-Ray parser can do recursion, any chance of your trying to make a SDL
> implementation ?
Hi,

attached is the SDL version. Please give it a try.

Best regards,
koppi

[ingo] Re: looking for a Ron Parker macro or scene

Mon, 17 Aug 2026 05:34:44 GMT

On 2026-08-17 07:27, jr wrote:
> 
> +1.  seeing the pattern, immediately a question of "cosmic importance" :-) came
> to mind, attached.
> 
Oh my, coffee on the keyboard :) :)

ingo

[ingo] Re: looking for a Ron Parker macro or scene

Mon, 17 Aug 2026 05:31:54 GMT

On 2026-08-16 21:56, William F Pokorny wrote:
> Results have me wondering how old POV-Ray versions rendered the scene, 
> but I don't have any old compiles handy and no more time to play...

I found it in obscure directory with house renovation files dated 2003 
and 2006. My guess it would have been made with POV-Ray 3.1

ingo

[jr] Re: looking for a Ron Parker macro or scene

Mon, 17 Aug 2026 05:30:00 GMT

[jr] Re: looking for a Ron Parker macro or scene

Mon, 17 Aug 2026 05:30:00 GMT

hi,

William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> On 8/16/26 09:54, ingo wrote:
> > Found it
>
> I'm glad you found it, and thanks for posting the code!

+1.  seeing the pattern, immediately a question of "cosmic importance" :-) came
to mind, attached.


> Results have me wondering how old POV-Ray versions rendered the scene,
> but I don't have any old compiles handy and no more time to play...

will post a second reply with a v3.7.0.8 render attached.


regards, jr.

[William F Pokorny] Re: looking for a Ron Parker macro or scene

Sun, 16 Aug 2026 19:56:15 GMT

On 8/16/26 09:54, ingo wrote:
> Found it

I'm glad you found it, and thanks for posting the code!

I did a number of v3.7 & v3.8 renders vs yuqk renders(a) given the code 
is exposed to the, multiple crackle uses within a thread, cache bug in 
the v3.7 and v3.8 code.

V3.8 beta 2 image on top and yuqk image on the bottom.

The color distribution looks better for the 'crackle solid' base pattern 
in yuqk, but I'm unsure why. I doubt it would be cache fix related - but 
maybe? Or, maybe something else with the yuqk re-write of the crackle 
code...

Results have me wondering how old POV-Ray versions rendered the scene, 
but I don't have any old compiles handy and no more time to play...

In any case, cool code!

Bill P.

(a) - I used 'crackle solid scale 0.3' for the base in the images attached.

[ingo] Re: looking for a Ron Parker macro or scene

Sun, 16 Aug 2026 13:54:21 GMT

On 2026-07-19 21:02, ingo wrote:
> I've been trying to dig up an old macro/scene by Ron Parker. It's not on 
> the server anymore, it's not in https://usenetarchives.com/groups.php? 
> c=povray
> 
> It is a macro/scene for creating a arabeske/arabic like tiling 
> pattern.The beauty was that it did work in 3D, not just on a 2D plane. 
> By adding a slight rotation to it the pattern kept changeing, while 
> still being similar.
> 
> Does it ring a bell? Anyone?
> 
> Sadly I lost my complete newsgroup archive.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Ingo

Found it
---%<------%<------%<------%<---
// Arabesque_tile by Ron Parker

#macro Arabesque( Param )
   #declare Sd = seed(Param);
   #declare Rv = <rand(Sd),rand(Sd),rand(Sd)>*500;
   #local C=pigment{crackle solid
     color_map{
       [1/12 red 1]
       [1/12 red 1 green 1][3/12 red 1 green 1]
       [3/12 green 1][5/12 green 1]
       [5/12 green 1 blue 1][7/12 green 1 blue 1]
       [7/12 blue 1][9/12 blue 1]
       [9/12 blue 1 red 1][11/12 blue 1 red 1]
       [11/12 red 1]
     }
   }
   #local G=pigment{crackle
     pigment_map{[.05 rgb 0][.05 C]}
     scale .2
     translate Rv
     warp {repeat z flip z}
   }
   #local B=pigment{
     radial
     pigment_map{
       #local i=0;
       /*#while(i<6)
         [i/6 G rotate(30+60*i)*y]
         [(i+1)/6 G rotate(30+60*i)*y]
         #local i=i+1;
       #end*/
       #while(i<12)
         [i/12 G rotate(15+30*i)*y]
         [(i+1)/12 G rotate(15+30*i)*y]
         #local i=i+1;
       #end
     }
   }
   #local T2=sqrt(3)/2;
   radial
   pigment_map{
     [1/3 B translate<.5,0,-T2>]
     [1/3 B translate<-1,0,0>]
     [2/3 B translate<-1,0,0>]
     [2/3 B translate<.5,0,T2>]
   }
   translate x
   warp{repeat 1.5*x flip x}
   warp{repeat .5*sqrt(3)*z flip z}
#end

plane {y 0 pigment {Arabesque(7)rotate <0,0,0.6>} finish {ambient 1} }
camera {location 10*y sky z look_at 0}
---%<------%<------%<------%<---

[jr] Re: towers of hanoi

Sun, 16 Aug 2026 11:50:00 GMT

hi,

koppi <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I solved the "towers of hanoi" puzzle using an iterative solver with an
> explicit stack inside the bullet physics playground.
> ... hanoi.lua

the POV-Ray parser can do recursion, any chance of your trying to make a SDL
implementation ?


regards, jr.

[ingo] Re: change "object" keyword to something more ex...

Sun, 16 Aug 2026 06:27:06 GMT

On 2026-08-16 01:04, Mr wrote:
> "ingo" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> writing:
> object{sphere<0,0,0>1}
> instead of
> sphere<0,0,0>1
> ....or is it just unintended side effects / syntax complexification that just got
> allowed by accident?

I.i.r.c. the object wrapper was not always there, it came later in the game.

---%<-----%<----%<---object{sphere{<0,0,0>,1}}

#declare S = object{sphere{<0,0,0>,1}}

S

object{S}

sphere{<0,0,0>,1}

#declare A = sphere{<0,0,0>,1}

A

object{A}
---%<-----%<----%<---

These all render fine. I see them as implicit and explicit forms of the 
same. I limit myself to use the explicit object, form when I want the 
object to be rendered.

---%<-----%<----%<---
#declare A = sphere{<0,0,0>,1}
object{A}
or
object{sphere{<0,0,0>,1}}
---%<-----%<----%<---

I would not be amazed if POV-Ray in the end wraps everything in object 
or equivalent before tracing.

ingo

[Tor Olav Kristensen] Re: Made from a Coons patch

Sun, 16 Aug 2026 00:45:00 GMT

"Tor Olav Kristensen" <tor### [at] TOBEREMOVEDgmailcom> wrote:
>...
> During my testing, I did notice a few minor issues in the code. To help out,
> I've put together a few suggested corrections:
>
>
> In the MakeVFn_BezierPatch macro, replace line 162:
>
>   Bernstein(Degree, i, _V) * Bernstein(Degree, j, _U) * _P +
>
> with this:
>
>         Bernstein(Degree, i, _U)*Bernstein(Degree, j, _V)*_P +
>
>
> In the MakeFn_BezierPatch_du macro, replace line 402:
>
>     Fu[i][j](_V,_U) * _P +
>
> with this:
>
>             Fu[i][j](_U, _V)*_P +
>
>
> In the MakeFn_BezierPatch_dv macro, replace line 417:
>
>    Fv[i][j](_V,_U) * _P +
>
> with this:
>
>             Fv[i][j](_U, _V)*_P +
>
>
> In the MeanCurvature function, replace line 668:
>
>  ( SFn_Iuu(_U, _V)*SFn_Ivv (_U, _V) - pow(SFn_Iuv(_U, _V),2) )
>
> with this:
>
>     (2*(SFn_Iuu(_U, _V)*SFn_Ivv(_U, _V) - pow(SFn_Iuv(_U, _V), 2)))
>
>
> In the T_Curvature texture, replace line 719 and 720:
>
>   //pigment {function { ((GaussianCurvature (x, y) - MinC)/Range)*0.99}
>   pigment {function { ((MeanCurvature (x, y) - MinC)/Range)*0.99}
>
> with this (to also make color wrap-around at the lower boundary less
> likely):
>
>         // pigment { function { 0.01 + 0.98*(GaussianCurvature(x, y) -
> MinC)/Range }
>         pigment { function { 0.01 + 0.98*(MeanCurvature(x, y) - MinC)/Range }
>
>
> In the bicubic_patch, replace line 738 to 748:
>
>   uv_vectors <0,0>,<1,0>,<1,1>,<0,1>
>    P1, P2,  P3,  P4,
>    P5, P6,  P7,  P8,
>    P9, P10, P11, P12,
>   P13, P14, P15, P16
>   #if (UV)
>    uv_mapping
>    texture {T_Curvature}
>   #else
>    texture {pigment {rgbt <0.6, 0.6, 0.4, 0.0>} finish {specular 0.4}}
>   #end
>
> with this:
>
>         #if ((Patch = 0) | (Patch = 1))
>             uv_vectors <0, 0>, <0, 1>, <1, 1>, <1, 0>
>              P1,  P5,  P9, P13,
>              P2,  P6, P10, P14,
>              P3,  P7, P11, P15,
>              P4,  P8, P12, P16
>         #end // if
>         #if (Patch = 2)
>             uv_vectors <0, 0>, <1, 0>, <1, 1>, <0, 1>
>              P1,  P2,  P3,  P4,
>              P5,  P6,  P7,  P8,
>              P9, P10, P11, P12,
>             P13, P14, P15, P16
>         #end // if
>         #if (UV)
>             uv_mapping
>             texture { T_Curvature }
>         #else
>             texture { pigment { color green 1 } }  // Exterior
>             interior_texture { pigment { color red 1 } }  // Interior
>         #end // if
>
>
> Replacing line 747 with those contrasting exterior and interior textures makes
> it easy to visually verify that the surface normals are facing the correct
> direction:
>...

Sorry, I forgot to mention this suggestion:

Where normals are visualized, replace line 697:

      cylinder {0, -(N/50) 0.00125 pigment {rgb 0.5} translate P}

with this:

                cylinder { 0, N/50, 0.00125 pigment { rgb <1, 1, 1>/2 }
translate P }


Also, after doing some more testing, I recommend this instead of what I
suggested above.

In the bicubic_patch, replace line 738 to 748:

  uv_vectors <0,0>,<1,0>,<1,1>,<0,1>
   P1, P2,  P3,  P4,
   P5, P6,  P7,  P8,
   P9, P10, P11, P12,
  P13, P14, P15, P16
  #if (UV)
   uv_mapping
   texture {T_Curvature}
  #else
   texture {pigment {rgbt <0.6, 0.6, 0.4, 0.0>} finish {specular 0.4}}
  #end

with this:

        uv_vectors <0, 0>, <0, 1>, <1, 1>, <1, 0>
         P1,  P5,  P9, P13,
         P2,  P6, P10, P14,
         P3,  P7, P11, P15,
         P4,  P8, P12, P16
        #if (UV)
            uv_mapping
            texture { T_Curvature }
        #else
            texture { pigment { color rgb <0, 1, 1> } }  // Exterior, Cyan
            interior_texture { pigment { color rgb <1, 1, 0> } }  // Interior,
Yellow
        #end // if

--
Tor Olav
http://subcube.com
https://github.com/t-o-k

[Mr] Re: change "object" keyword to something more ex...

Sat, 15 Aug 2026 23:05:00 GMT

"ingo" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> "Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> > "object" seems a little hard to grasp for beginners in POV-Ray but it may get
> > worse in POV 4 when more object oriented syntaxes are probably going to make
> > their way into the language.
>
> Early concept of 'objects' can be  traced to AI work at MIT in the late
>
> (attributes).
>
> So object predates oop. The non-oop object = struct = record.
>
> In my own raytracer I use shape, at first because it collides with Object as
> uses in Nim (as Record). Then shape isn't right either. A triangle is a shape,
> but a bag of triangles is not a shape. So I will eventually use primitive, where
> the bag of triangles (mesh) becomes `patch' as in stitched together (quilting)
> instead of repair.
>
> In POV-Ray SDL object is fine, as that is what we deal with, virtual 3D objects.
> Object is the top level container and there is no OOP relation. An then, there
> are more or less friendly way to point a new user to the fine manual &
> documentation.
>
> (I hope we won't get (more) OOP in SDL in POV4)
>
> ingo

okay... I still lack too much computer science background/experience to really
understand why more oop is bad for POV, but many seasoned povers agreeing with
you would suffice to convince me...
Still I feel that I could understand better the answer to this other question :
without any prior or later declaration in a scene, is there actually any use for
writing:
object{sphere<0,0,0>1}
instead of
sphere<0,0,0>1
....or is it just unintended side effects / syntax complexification that just got
allowed by accident?

[Tor Olav Kristensen] Re: Made from a Coons patch

Sat, 15 Aug 2026 20:45:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Tor Olav Kristensen" <tor### [at] TOBEREMOVEDgmailcom> wrote:
>...
> > > And of course, it's then trivial to calculate the mean and Gaussian curvature of
> > > the surface at any point.
> >
> > I am afraid you are a bit ahead of me when it comes to those
> > curvature calculations. It would be nice to have a function
> > controlled pigment that shows the curvature across the surface.
> > to see how you would implement that.
>
> See attached.  Let me know if you need any references to explain how to
> calculate the curvature.
>...

Hi Bill

Sorry for the late reply.

I have now reviewed your code thoroughly and found a lot of great work. It is
especially impressive that you got all the polynomial functions for the Bezier
surface and their derivatives exactly right when writing them out explicitly.

At first your code looked a bit cryptic to me, but once I understood more about
the curvature calculations, I found it easy to follow. You have structured it
well.

Visualizing the du, dv, and normal vectors with cylinders is a nice debugging
tool.

Lately, I,ve been developing a Bezier library for POV-Ray
(https://github.com/t-o-k/POV-Ray-bezier). Your work has been very useful for
validating my own curvature calculations as I make progress on the project.

During my testing, I did notice a few minor issues in the code. To help out,
I've put together a few suggested corrections:

In the MakeVFn_BezierPatch macro, replace line 162:

  Bernstein(Degree, i, _V) * Bernstein(Degree, j, _U) * _P +

with this:

        Bernstein(Degree, i, _U)*Bernstein(Degree, j, _V)*_P +

In the MakeFn_BezierPatch_du macro, replace line 402:

    Fu[i][j](_V,_U) * _P +

with this:

            Fu[i][j](_U, _V)*_P +

In the MakeFn_BezierPatch_dv macro, replace line 417:

   Fv[i][j](_V,_U) * _P +

with this:

            Fv[i][j](_U, _V)*_P +

In the MeanCurvature function, replace line 668:

 ( SFn_Iuu(_U, _V)*SFn_Ivv (_U, _V) - pow(SFn_Iuv(_U, _V),2) )

with this:

    (2*(SFn_Iuu(_U, _V)*SFn_Ivv(_U, _V) - pow(SFn_Iuv(_U, _V), 2)))

In the T_Curvature texture, replace line 719 and 720:

  //pigment {function { ((GaussianCurvature (x, y) - MinC)/Range)*0.99}
  pigment {function { ((MeanCurvature (x, y) - MinC)/Range)*0.99}

with this (to also make color wrap-around at the lower boundary less
likely):

        // pigment { function { 0.01 + 0.98*(GaussianCurvature(x, y) -
MinC)/Range }
        pigment { function { 0.01 + 0.98*(MeanCurvature(x, y) - MinC)/Range }

In the bicubic_patch, replace line 738 to 748:

  uv_vectors <0,0>,<1,0>,<1,1>,<0,1>
   P1, P2,  P3,  P4,
   P5, P6,  P7,  P8,
   P9, P10, P11, P12,
  P13, P14, P15, P16
  #if (UV)
   uv_mapping
   texture {T_Curvature}
  #else
   texture {pigment {rgbt <0.6, 0.6, 0.4, 0.0>} finish {specular 0.4}}
  #end

with this:

        #if ((Patch = 0) | (Patch = 1))
            uv_vectors <0, 0>, <0, 1>, <1, 1>, <1, 0>
             P1,  P5,  P9, P13,
             P2,  P6, P10, P14,
             P3,  P7, P11, P15,
             P4,  P8, P12, P16
        #end // if
        #if (Patch = 2)
            uv_vectors <0, 0>, <1, 0>, <1, 1>, <0, 1>
             P1,  P2,  P3,  P4,
             P5,  P6,  P7,  P8,
             P9, P10, P11, P12,
            P13, P14, P15, P16
        #end // if
        #if (UV)
            uv_mapping
            texture { T_Curvature }
        #else
            texture { pigment { color green 1 } }  // Exterior
            interior_texture { pigment { color red 1 } }  // Interior
        #end // if

Replacing line 747 with those contrasting exterior and interior textures makes
it easy to visually verify that the surface normals are facing the correct
direction:

Finally, it's interesting and fun to dig into your code, so I hope that you
continue exploring this topic.

--
Tor Olav
http://subcube.com
https://github.com/t-o-k

[ingo] Re: change "object" keyword to something more ex...

Fri, 14 Aug 2026 15:00:00 GMT

"Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> "object" seems a little hard to grasp for beginners in POV-Ray but it may get
> worse in POV 4 when more object oriented syntaxes are probably going to make
> their way into the language.

Early concept of 'objects' can be  traced to AI work at MIT in the late
1950s–early 1960s, where 'objects' referred to atoms with identified properties
(attributes).

So object predates oop. The non-oop object = struct = record.

In my own raytracer I use shape, at first because it collides with Object as
uses in Nim (as Record). Then shape isn't right either. A triangle is a shape,
but a bag of triangles is not a shape. So I will eventually use primitive, where
the bag of triangles (mesh) becomes `patch' as in stitched together (quilting)
instead of repair.

In POV-Ray SDL object is fine, as that is what we deal with, virtual 3D objects.
Object is the top level container and there is no OOP relation. An then, there
are more or less friendly way to point a new user to the fine manual &
documentation.

(I hope we won't get (more) OOP in SDL in POV4)

ingo

[Maetes] Re: Star Wars Destroyer, Tie-Fighter Tie-Interce...

Fri, 14 Aug 2026 10:10:00 GMT

3D-Version of the pic

[Maetes] Star Wars Destroyer, Tie-Fighter Tie-Interceptor

Fri, 14 Aug 2026 10:05:00 GMT

I have continued to work on the Star Wars models, now 3 more are temporarily
finished.

Destroyer
Tie-Fighter
Tie-Interceptor

All models created by Dylan M. Beattie in 1997. I was in short email contact
with him and he sounded happy that his old models are back in the air.

As always, I have only done the bare minimum, interesting gimmicks are still to
come. Macro parameters and other things can change over time.

Documentation and download:
https://www.maetes.com/en/blog/star-wars-empire-povray-models

Ciao, Martin

[Maetes] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90

Fri, 14 Aug 2026 09:55:00 GMT

Hi Droj,

I didn't change the textures, just outsourced them so that you can easily change
them without editing the original code.

I created my example photo without much effort, didn't pay attention to
appearance and exposure, something like that will come later, if at all.

Your picture looks very good, atmospheric.

If you send me your code, I can see if I can include some of your changes, then
everyone will get something out of it. But I don't know when I'll get to it, I'm
currently working on other models.

Martin

[koppi] towers of hanoi

Thu, 13 Aug 2026 22:45:10 GMT

I solved the "towers of hanoi" puzzle using an iterative solver with an 
explicit stack inside the bullet physics playground.

Video link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blw8_oLthRQ

Source code
https://github.com/bullet-physics-playground/bpp/blob/master/demo/koppi/hanoi.lua

Happy POVing!

--
koppi

[jr] Re: change "object" keyword to something more ex...

Wed, 12 Aug 2026 18:15:00 GMT

hi,

"Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> "object" seems a little hard to grasp for beginners in POV-Ray ...
> Thanks for sharing your opinions on this ...

I guess (I can imagine) "lacking historical perspective" being a problem; ie
person not taking into account that POV-Ray and the SDL vocabulary were around
before object-oriented everything became "the paradigm".

regards, jr.

[Bald Eagle] Re: change "object" keyword to something more ex...

Wed, 12 Aug 2026 11:05:00 GMT

"Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> I think "instance" would be less surprising and less loaded with
> extra meaning,

I think instantiate would be better - more verb/sentence-like.

#declare Thing = sphere { ... }

#instantiate {Thing}

There has definitely been much past discussion about the syntax of SDL.

Being able to define keyword aliases would help explore this a lot.

#declare Thing = sphere { ... }
#object {Thing}
#alias object = instantiate;
#instantiate {Thing}

[Mr] change "object" keyword to something more explic...

Tue, 11 Aug 2026 23:00:00 GMT

"object" seems a little hard to grasp for beginners in POV-Ray but it may get
worse in POV 4 when more object oriented syntaxes are probably going to make
their way into the language. What would intuition expect an "object" keyword to
do ? I will not speculate... but what it actually does in POV-Ray certainly is a
much more specific feature, called instanciation and documentation explains it
correctly. I think "instance" would be less surprising and less loaded with
extra meaning,
for instance, the kind of mistakes the current phrasing leads newcomers to is to
try and use it like a CSG keyword, trying to feed it whatever sort of input
between the braces, expecting it would result in an object... while the input it
expects should in fact already be an object and a single one! also it does allow
to populate it with either a declared variable name invoking an object, but also
a root level primitive (sphere cylinder etc)! ... This I don't know why... as it
encourages one level nesting that seems useless. Thanks for sharing your
opinions on this and I already know I'll learn from them!

[Thomas de Groot] Re: nntp connexion hs

Tue, 11 Aug 2026 07:19:22 GMT

Thank you so much, Chris!

-- 
Thomas

[Droj] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90

Mon, 10 Aug 2026 23:00:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> In the last few years I have found some finished, partly ancient Povray models
> on the Internet, upgraded to version 3.7 and expanded a little.
> I now wanted to publish them gradually on my website.
>
> The first one is a Corvette from the Star Wars Universe.
> https://www.maetes.com/en/blog/new-rubric-povray-ox-and-star-wars-corvette-cr90
>
> Ma

Hi Maetes,

Just some background information about the model:
 - it's called Corellian Corvette CR 90 (or CCRV)
 - the original code was created by Howard E. Day 1998 for Povray 3.0
 - the code was onverted to POV-Ray 3.1 by John Dickson

The Corellian CR 90 model was part of a POV-Ray Collection called 'Star Wars'
with various TIE fighters and WING fighters and of course with Han Solo's
Millenium Falcon.

I found that starship too in my archives last year.
So I cleaned up the code and I pimped up the model a bit (additional laser
cannons and some illumination) but like you I did not touch the model's
textures.
Changing the textures would be like extinguishing the author's spirit!

Here is my version the CCRV.

Droj

[kurtzlepirate] Re: nntp connexion hs

Mon, 10 Aug 2026 07:22:28 GMT

On 09/08/2026 18:38, Chris Cason wrote:

> 
> Any chance that during the reconfiguration you added a username? This 
> isn't necessary for the NNTP server and unless you actually have an 
> account on it (which you don't; the website accounts are for HTTP, not 
> NNTP) then your connection will fail in the way you showed.


Yes, I did add a username.
I understand better now.

Thanks for clarifying that Chris.





-- 
klp
compagnie de la banquise

[William F Pokorny] Re: nntp connexion hs

Mon, 10 Aug 2026 05:30:48 GMT

On 8/8/26 22:21, Chris Cason wrote:
>> I can no longer connect to Thunderbird to read the news.
> 
> Folks,
...

Thank you Chris!

Bill P.

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 21:05:01 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 09/08/2026 15:46, Mike Miller wrote:
> > I'm still trying to visualize what is happening on the lower 'entry' level. I
> > picture the camera starting at the base of a 'cooling' liquid pool and pipes
> > with the camera drifting up the stairs and towards the tunnel entrance. Attached
> > are my current thoughts on the lower level, but I'm still looking at some
> > reference, so the design may change. :)
>
> I like what I see and your images remind me of my childhood when
>
> I guess finding the optimal camera path can be done easily in
> Blender first.
> --
> YB

Yep, I'm definitely using Blender for quick camera angle studies. I jumped into
Lumion this morning to start modeling a possible topo terrain and to get a
better idea of how much foreground modeling I have. Attached are some quick
screen studies from Lumion of what I have so far. I'll be able to export the
..raw height field map to duplicate in POV.
Mike.

[Chris Cason] Re: nntp connexion hs

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 16:38:34 GMT

On 10/08/2026 01:31, kurtzlepirate wrote:
> But... my thunderbird didn't handle this transition well, and nothing was working
anymore. I saw some really strange things in the logs (see screenshot).

Any chance that during the reconfiguration you added a username? This isn't necessary
for the NNTP server and unless you actually have an account on it (which you don't;
the website accounts are for HTTP, not NNTP) then your connection will fail in the way
you showed.

While it's working now, I'd still suggest you go to Settings -> Privacy & Security and
click on the "Saved Passwords" button. If in the list you get there is any reference
to news.povray.org then that was the cause.

-- Chris

[kurtzlepirate] Re: nntp connexion hs

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 15:31:50 GMT

On 09/08/2026 04:21, Chris Cason wrote:

> Folks,
> 
> Apologies for the issue, but web scrapers forced my hand by totally 
> bringing the system down attempting to scrape the news.povray.org web 
> interface with several thousand connections per second (!)
> 
> [snip]
> 
> At the moment, provided you can use the new IP address, access to port 
> 119 should work whichever method you employ.
> 

You don't need to apologize. If anything, we're the ones who should 
thank you for the work you do to maintain the POVray server for our 
little community.

Implementing a waf is always complicated. You have to constantly balance 
the service you offer with the security measures you need to put in 
place. In the world of wafs, darkness reigns supremeâ€”or perhaps even 
magic !!!

Setting up this new url just for nntp is a great idea. Simple and effective.

The issue has now been resolved. THANK YOU.

But... my thunderbird didn't handle this transition well, and nothing 
was working anymore. I saw some really strange things in the logs (see 
screenshot).

So I deleted all the POV-Ray configurations (I have other configurations 
for other NTP servers that work fine)

I'm in the process of reconfiguring everything, and my first test in 
p.test went well. Gotchaâ€Š!.

Hoping that Cloudflare doesn't introduce any more jokes.

Regards

[Chris Cason] Re: nntp connexion hs

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 13:59:26 GMT

On 9/08/2026 12:21, Chris Cason wrote:
> This has resulted in news.povray.org getting a new IP address pointing at
cloudflare, and it doesn't relay or proxy NNTP.

Also, for the record, I have now added NNTP SRV records to the DNS for povray.org and
news.povray.org. For the technically inclined, you can use nslookup or dig etc to
query _nntp._tcp.povray.org or _nntp._tcp.news.povray.org. e.g. "nslookup -q=srv
_nntp._tcp.povray.org" or "dig _nntp._tcp.povray.org SRV +short".

There are very few NNTP clients that use SRV but it is a thing (see
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2782) and will remain for as long as we can
still run NNTP.

[Chris Cason] Re: nntp connexion hs

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 13:30:43 GMT

To give you an idea of how insane the (presumably AI) scraper was hitting us, here's a
screenshot of the DNS analytics for the period in question (I can't use HTTP analytics
for the "before" period because at the time news.povray.org was not proxied by
Cloudflare and thus they have no data on it; the DNS queries are a substitute).

Keep in mind each DNS query for the IP address of news.povray.org does not equal one
connection, since the scrapers only need to query for the IP address once per client,
and it is then cached. This was demonstrated when I did turn on Cloudflare proxying
but the hammering continued due to the above caching, leading me to need to firewall
it off for a day or two.

We will never know how many individual IP addresses were involved in the attack but I
expect it to be in the millions. This is not unprecedented - we had to deal with a
network of scrapers hitting the f-lohmueller.de site a month or two ago. In that case,
while they were coming in fast, they weren't so fast as to overflow the listen queue
so we were able to log every request (it also helps that the FL site is fully static,
no PHP and no database, which is not the case for the news server). As JR can attest,
for that case alone the logs showed the requests coming from over 800,000 unique IP
addresses. Fortunately we were able to isolate them well enough to firewall those off.

In the DNS analytics screenshot (taken today) you can see that over the prior three
days there were about 29 million queries for the address of news.povray.org, averaging
130 queries/second. But that's over three days - you can see from the spike that
almost all were on Friday (AU time) and peaked at 2.6 million requests/hour (about 720
requests/second) just after 3pm, at which time I started tuning the Cloudflare ruleset
to keep bots out but allow normal visitors (there was a pattern in the HTTP requests).
I was trying to avoid having to use a challenge (the "are you human" dialog that web
visitors get) but in the end I had to turn that on, too, as none of the rules I set up
would bite hard enough. I probably could have done it with a regex, but that's only
available for Enterprise customers*

In the screenshot of the HTTP analytics - which only became relevant once I turned on
the proxy - you can see that in a single four-hour period there were over 17 million
requests, peaking at around 250,000 per minute at 3:15-ish, at which point I started
setting the bot rejection rules. These requests were only from clients that "saw" the
new IP address, as mentioned above there were an unknown (but very large) number of
bots still hitting the direct IP address, which Cloudflare doesn't see.

Overall this careless, stupid and needless deployment of a clearly broken scraper not
only took down the site for a while but also has cost me at least a day of lost
productivity, as well as requiring the DNS change which blocked NNTP access. It is
almost beyond belief that anyone would expect something like this to work. I can only
assume it's a so-called "vibe-coded" program and that the authors simply *did not
care* if it worked or not, they just deployed it anyway.

I have taken the time to document this not only to show our userbase why we had to
make the change, but also to make a public record of what's been going on behind the
scenes due to the race to train LLM's and the cheap availability of immense
residential proxy networks. I will also post this same data to povray.org's front
page.

Our site is not by any means the only one dealing with this sort of nonsense, and I
suspect it's going to get worse before it gets better.

* That said I am grateful to Cloudflare for providing us with a free "Pro" account
under their open-source initiative.

-- Chris

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 13:19:40 GMT

On 09/08/2026 15:46, Mike Miller wrote:
> I'm still trying to visualize what is happening on the lower 'entry' level. I
> picture the camera starting at the base of a 'cooling' liquid pool and pipes
> with the camera drifting up the stairs and towards the tunnel entrance. Attached
> are my current thoughts on the lower level, but I'm still looking at some
> reference, so the design may change. :)

I like what I see and your images remind me of my childhood when
grandfather (ChiefÂ mechanic of theÂ heavy machine
toolsÂ plant) was
workingÂ at home with blueprints. At the age of 5 I was completely
enchanted with the powerÂ and the beauty of mechanics.

I guess finding the optimal camera path can be done easily in
Blender first.
--
YB

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 12:50:01 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 06/08/2026 20:29, Mike Miller wrote:
> > Attached are final plan and elevation renderings from POV of this pump house
> > model. I rendered them at 8K and started drafting a section of the lower level
> > to start the foreground hardscape and topo. I'm working on a pencil drawing of
> > what I imagine as the 'approach' shot and will post.
>
> Excellent combination of pencil and 3D rendering - looks very
> impressive. I am also following updates on your site and
> like new images that appear there, including sketches.
> Some of them remind me of Roger Dean works - wild boar is very good !
> https://www.miller-raytracer.com/s-k-e-t-c-h-e-s
> --
> YB

Thanks YB.
I'm still trying to visualize what is happening on the lower 'entry' level. I
picture the camera starting at the base of a 'cooling' liquid pool and pipes
with the camera drifting up the stairs and towards the tunnel entrance. Attached
are my current thoughts on the lower level, but I'm still looking at some
reference, so the design may change. :)
Mike.

[yesbird] Re: nntp connexion hs

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 10:08:53 GMT

On 09/08/2026 05:21, Chris Cason wrote:
> Apologies for the issue, but web scrapers forced my hand by totally 
> bringing the system down attempting to scrape the news.povray.org web 
> interface with several thousand connections per second (!)

Chris,
thanks so much for this fix and all other things you are doing for our
community. Changing server address to nntp.povray.org in settings works
fine for me.
--
YB

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 10:03:37 GMT

On 06/08/2026 20:29, Mike Miller wrote:
> Attached are final plan and elevation renderings from POV of this pump house
> model. I rendered them at 8K and started drafting a section of the lower level
> to start the foreground hardscape and topo. I'm working on a pencil drawing of
> what I imagine as the 'approach' shot and will post.

Excellent combination of pencil and 3D rendering - looks very
impressive. I am also following updates on your site and
like new images that appear there, including sketches.
Some of them remind me of Roger Dean works - wild boar is very good !
https://www.miller-raytracer.com/s-k-e-t-c-h-e-s
-- 
YB

[Chris Cason] Re: nntp connexion hs

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 02:49:25 GMT

On 9/08/2026 12:21, Chris Cason wrote:
> by now the scrapers should all have picked up the new IP address, or so I hope.

And this does appear to be the case. So direct connections to the www server should
work again, meaning a hosts entry is probably the best approach for those who can use
it.

-- Chris

[Chris Cason] Re: nntp connexion hs

Sun, 9 Aug 2026 02:21:33 GMT

On 8/08/2026 23:24, kurtz le pirate wrote:
> I can no longer connect to Thunderbird to read the news.

Folks,

Apologies for the issue, but web scrapers forced my hand by totally bringing the
system down attempting to scrape the news.povray.org web interface with several
thousand connections per second (!)

There was no clear pattern of IP addresses or other facets I could use to block them
server-side so I had no option but to turn on cloudflare for the news and www sites.

This has resulted in news.povray.org getting a new IP address pointing at cloudflare,
and it doesn't relay or proxy NNTP.

The workaround for now is to either use a new DNS entry I have created -
nntp.povray.org - which points at the real IP address, or to add a new hosts entry to
your system that equates news.povray.org to the IP address 203.29.75.35. This has the
downside that connections to the web view at news.povray.org will no longer work,
since even after I cloaked news.povray.org with cloudflare, I was still seeing
millions of connections direct to the IP address and had to block ingress on port 80
and 443 to cloudflare IP's only.

After posting this message I will give turning off the IP block a test to see if the
direct connections have gone away - by now the scrapers should all have picked up the
new IP address, or so I hope.

Which method you use depends on your NNTP software. Thunderbird allows you to change
the IP without losing your existing cached NG's, content etc, so changing to
nntp.povray.org in the connection settings should work. Other software may require you
to toss your cached data (my iOS newsreader wanted to do this).

At the moment, provided you can use the new IP address, access to port 119 should work
whichever method you employ.

-- Chris

[Uncle Josh] Re: nntp connexion hs

Sat, 8 Aug 2026 22:30:00 GMT

"kurtz le pirate" <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I can no longer connect to Thunderbird to read the news.

I'm glad it's not just me. I was getting very frustrated because Thunderbird
also seemed to disconnect from my Bluehost email and Bluehost is not being
helpful in reconnecting.

Uncle Josh

[yesbird] Re: nntp connexion hs

Sat, 8 Aug 2026 14:10:00 GMT

"kurtz le pirate" <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> I can no longer connect to Thunderbird to read the news.

Same here and also thanks to jr for explanation, will communicate by Web now.
--
YB

[kurtz le pirate] nntp connexion hs

Sat, 8 Aug 2026 13:25:00 GMT

Hello,

I can no longer connect to Thunderbird to read the news.

I tried using the web interface, but I was denied access there as well.
My “kurtz the pirate” account seems to have disappeared.

I just created an account that lets me log in via the web interface, but I still
can't log in via nntp.

Still getting the same error in the thunderbird console :

error { target: TCPSocket, isTrusted: true, name: "ConnectionRefusedError",
message: "Network", errorCode: 2152398861, srcElement: TCPSocket, currentTarget:
TCPSocket, eventPhase: 2, bubbles: false, cancelable: false, … }
ConnectionRefusedError Network 2152398861 NntpClient.sys.mjs:254:18
_onError resource:///modules/NntpClient.sys.mjs:254

jr (thanks to him) told me that chris must have, quite rightly, put safeguards
in place with cloudflare

Could using 563 (SSL/TLS) be a solution?


If you have a solution, I'd love to hear it!
Thanks in advance

[jr] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90

Sat, 8 Aug 2026 07:45:00 GMT

hi,

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> I just testet it, but the tie is one big mesh, without ...

yes, sorry, all those meshes were converted from existing; the library's home
page has all the examples.


regards, jr.

[jr] Re: Weird benchmark rendered image in documentat...

Sat, 8 Aug 2026 07:45:00 GMT

hi,

"Warren" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Hello / Hi
> I've been visiting this page: https://www.povray.org/download/benchmark.php
> and I find that the image that represents the official benchmark of POVRay is a
> little too dark. When I render this image in a linux OS, the rendered benchmark
> image is much brighter. Maybe it might be worth replacing the current image with
> a real one with the true size as written in the ini file ( 512 x 512 pixels ).
> But that's not urgent at all, I do agree with that.

thanks, agree that the image should be re-rendered, will look into it.


regards, jr.

[Warren] Weird benchmark rendered image in documentation ...

Fri, 7 Aug 2026 18:50:00 GMT

Hello / Hi
I've been visiting this page: https://www.povray.org/download/benchmark.php
and I find that the image that represents the official benchmark of POVRay is a
little too dark. When I render this image in a linux OS, the rendered benchmark
image is much brighter. Maybe it might be worth replacing the current image with
a real one with the true size as written in the ini file ( 512 x 512 pixels ).
But that's not urgent at all, I do agree with that.
Regards,
Antoine.

Url of online benchmark image:
https://www.povray.org/i/benchmark-thumbnail.jpg

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Thu, 6 Aug 2026 17:35:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > ...
> > I seem to be dropping sentences when I use line returns in my responses. My
> > previewed messages look OK except for the mis-spells. :) ?
>
> not your fault, the forum s/ware struggles with UTF-8.
>
>
> regards, jr.

Thanks jr. It had me confused. :)

Attached are final plan and elevation renderings from POV of this pump house
model. I rendered them at 8K and started drafting a section of the lower level
to start the foreground hardscape and topo. I'm working on a pencil drawing of
what I imagine as the 'approach' shot and will post.
Miller

[Maetes] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90

Thu, 6 Aug 2026 09:35:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I never got into Star Wars, but that craft does look nice.  fwiw, if you need a
> 'tie fighter', see the demo for 'Tabulated' (my wiki page).
>
> regards, jr.

I just testet it, but the tie is one big mesh, without textures or even multiple
meshes so that we know where is what.

The same goes for the shuttle, which I was also interested in.
And that doesn't look like the original shuttle :)
Bit it looks very detailed, as black as it is.

Doesn't matter, I have a good model of the Tie-Fighter.

ma

[jr] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Thu, 6 Aug 2026 05:35:00 GMT

hi,

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> I seem to be dropping sentences when I use line returns in my responses. My
> previewed messages look OK except for the mis-spells. :) ?

not your fault, the forum s/ware struggles with UTF-8.


regards, jr.

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Thu, 6 Aug 2026 03:25:01 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > > "Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> > > > "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Attached are elevations & plan renderings from POV of my current pump house
> > > > > model.
> > > >
> > > > Damn.
> > > > I'm not an architect or a graphic designer, but have done a fair amount of
> > > > building work, and have needed to measure/estimate the sizes of things, and
have
> > > > designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
> > > >
> > > > I love this stuff.
> > > >
> > > > Do you model everything as meshes first?
> > > > Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
> > > >
> > > > What about the textures?
> > > > Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
> > > > UV mapping?
> > > >
> > > > Is anything ever done procedurally?
> > > >
> > > > Why/why not would help a lot of people get good work done more quickly and
then
> > > > step two is making it LOOK better without 100 iterations of tweaking.
> > > >
> > > > - BE
> > >
> > > >> designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
> > > Nice, that kind of how I got into architecture. I spent summers in high school
> > > restoring churches and was fascinated when I got to work on old sets of
> > > drawings.
> > >
> > > >> Do you model everything as meshes first?
> > > For the production/client work, yes, but in POV, I try to build scenes without
> > >
> > > do use Blender for some complete forms and for exporting position data for POV
> > > types.
> > >
> > > >> Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
> > > Yes, use macros to create 'types' with 'properties' like: bolts, pipes, window
> > > frames, beams, etc. I also use them in writing & testing materials & for
> > >
> > >
> > > >> What about the textures?> Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
> > > >> UV mapping?
> > > For my POV work, it is a mix. I relied heavily on image mapped textures for my
> > > architectural renderings, but I prefer to make procedural textures for my POV
> > > renderings. Professionally, we use a PBR setup with real-time viewing which
> > > makes the texturing process easier. I still export some diffuse and normal maps
> > > out of Substance.
> > >
> > > Mike
> >
> > SORRY -- I posted something very cryptic this morning.
> >
> > >> designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
> >
> > youth-group restoring old churches and was fascinated when I got to work on an
> > old set of drawings. I went from drawing comic books to illustrating building.
> >
> > >> Do you model everything as meshes first?
> > For the production/client work, yes, but in POV, I try to build scenes without
> >
> > do use Blender for some complex forms and for exporting position data for POV
> > types.
> > >> Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
> >
> > Yes, use macros to create 'types with properties' objects: bolts, pipes, window
> > frames, beams, etc. I also use them in my writing & testing materials & for
> >
> > use and can post here. I program parametric Revit families and use a simulate
> > setup in POV (using a 2D profile to create extrudes, sweeps, voids, etc.). I use
> > 'mixed' array to create a 'Sudo' class for storing properties that get passed to
> > a 'construction' macro. It allows for creating many variations from the same
> > template.
> >
> > >> What about the textures?> Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
> > >> UV mapping?
> > For my POV work, it is a mix. I relied heavily on image mapped textures for my
> > architectural renderings, but I prefer to make procedural textures for my POV
> > renderings. Professionally, we use a PBR setup with real-time viewing which
> > makes the texturing process easier. I still export some diffuse and bump-maps
> > out of Substance.
> > Miller
>
> I seem to be dropping sentences when I use line returns in my responses. My
> previewed messages look OK except for the mis-spells. :) ?


Attached are POV renderings of my current model / progress. I still a few more
parts to model and then I'll start working on the foreground hardscape and topo.
Mike.

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 20:30:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > "Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> > > "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Attached are elevations & plan renderings from POV of my current pump house
> > > > model.
> > >
> > > Damn.
> > > I'm not an architect or a graphic designer, but have done a fair amount of
> > > building work, and have needed to measure/estimate the sizes of things, and have
> > > designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
> > >
> > > I love this stuff.
> > >
> > > Do you model everything as meshes first?
> > > Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
> > >
> > > What about the textures?
> > > Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
> > > UV mapping?
> > >
> > > Is anything ever done procedurally?
> > >
> > > Why/why not would help a lot of people get good work done more quickly and then
> > > step two is making it LOOK better without 100 iterations of tweaking.
> > >
> > > - BE
> >
> > >> designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
> > Nice, that kind of how I got into architecture. I spent summers in high school
> > restoring churches and was fascinated when I got to work on old sets of
> > drawings.
> >
> > >> Do you model everything as meshes first?
> > For the production/client work, yes, but in POV, I try to build scenes without
> >
> > do use Blender for some complete forms and for exporting position data for POV
> > types.
> >
> > >> Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
> > Yes, use macros to create 'types' with 'properties' like: bolts, pipes, window
> > frames, beams, etc. I also use them in writing & testing materials & for
> >
> >
> > >> What about the textures?> Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
> > >> UV mapping?
> > For my POV work, it is a mix. I relied heavily on image mapped textures for my
> > architectural renderings, but I prefer to make procedural textures for my POV
> > renderings. Professionally, we use a PBR setup with real-time viewing which
> > makes the texturing process easier. I still export some diffuse and normal maps
> > out of Substance.
> >
> > Mike
>
> SORRY -- I posted something very cryptic this morning.
>
> >> designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
>
> youth-group restoring old churches and was fascinated when I got to work on an
> old set of drawings. I went from drawing comic books to illustrating building.
>
> >> Do you model everything as meshes first?
> For the production/client work, yes, but in POV, I try to build scenes without
>
> do use Blender for some complex forms and for exporting position data for POV
> types.
> >> Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
>
> Yes, use macros to create 'types with properties' objects: bolts, pipes, window
> frames, beams, etc. I also use them in my writing & testing materials & for
>
> use and can post here. I program parametric Revit families and use a simulate
> setup in POV (using a 2D profile to create extrudes, sweeps, voids, etc.). I use
> 'mixed' array to create a 'Sudo' class for storing properties that get passed to
> a 'construction' macro. It allows for creating many variations from the same
> template.
>
> >> What about the textures?> Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
> >> UV mapping?
> For my POV work, it is a mix. I relied heavily on image mapped textures for my
> architectural renderings, but I prefer to make procedural textures for my POV
> renderings. Professionally, we use a PBR setup with real-time viewing which
> makes the texturing process easier. I still export some diffuse and bump-maps
> out of Substance.
> Miller

I seem to be dropping sentences when I use line returns in my responses. My
previewed messages look OK except for the mis-spells. :) ?

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 18:45:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> > "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> >
> > > Attached are elevations & plan renderings from POV of my current pump house
> > > model.
> >
> > Damn.
> > I'm not an architect or a graphic designer, but have done a fair amount of
> > building work, and have needed to measure/estimate the sizes of things, and have
> > designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
> >
> > I love this stuff.
> >
> > Do you model everything as meshes first?
> > Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
> >
> > What about the textures?
> > Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
> > UV mapping?
> >
> > Is anything ever done procedurally?
> >
> > Why/why not would help a lot of people get good work done more quickly and then
> > step two is making it LOOK better without 100 iterations of tweaking.
> >
> > - BE
>
> >> designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
> Nice, that kind of how I got into architecture. I spent summers in high school
> restoring churches and was fascinated when I got to work on old sets of
> drawings.
>
> >> Do you model everything as meshes first?
> For the production/client work, yes, but in POV, I try to build scenes without
>
> do use Blender for some complete forms and for exporting position data for POV
> types.
>
> >> Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
> Yes, use macros to create 'types' with 'properties' like: bolts, pipes, window
> frames, beams, etc. I also use them in writing & testing materials & for
>
>
> >> What about the textures?> Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
> >> UV mapping?
> For my POV work, it is a mix. I relied heavily on image mapped textures for my
> architectural renderings, but I prefer to make procedural textures for my POV
> renderings. Professionally, we use a PBR setup with real-time viewing which
> makes the texturing process easier. I still export some diffuse and normal maps
> out of Substance.
>
> Mike

SORRY -- I posted something very cryptic this morning.

>> designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
Nice, that’s kind of how I got into architecture. I spent summers in high school
youth-group restoring old churches and was fascinated when I got to work on an
old set of drawings. I went from drawing comic books to illustrating building.

>> Do you model everything as meshes first?
For the production/client work, yes, but in POV, I try to build scenes without
mesh. It’s rewarding to me when I can a build a complex object in pure CSG.  I
do use Blender for some complex forms and for exporting position data for POV
types.
>> Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?

Yes, use macros to create 'types with properties' objects: bolts, pipes, window
frames, beams, etc. I also use them in my writing & testing materials & for
read/write functions between software’s. I have a set of architectural macros I
use and can post here. I program parametric Revit families and use a simulate
setup in POV (using a 2D profile to create extrudes, sweeps, voids, etc.). I use
'mixed' array to create a 'Sudo' class for storing properties that get passed to
a 'construction' macro. It allows for creating many variations from the same
template.

>> What about the textures?> Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
>> UV mapping?
For my POV work, it is a mix. I relied heavily on image mapped textures for my
architectural renderings, but I prefer to make procedural textures for my POV
renderings. Professionally, we use a PBR setup with real-time viewing which
makes the texturing process easier. I still export some diffuse and bump-maps
out of Substance.
Miller

[jr] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 18:45:00 GMT

hi,

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> ...
> JR, where is your wiki page?
>
> What we could do with is a page where all Povrayers present their websites. I
> actually wanted to do it, but nothing has come of it so far.

<wiki.povray.org/content/User:Jr>

has the most recent versions of my stuff, at least (from memory) one bug got
"slain" in 'Tabulated()' since the thread you referred to in the follow-up.

regards, jr.

[jr] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 18:45:00 GMT

hi,

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> ...
> JR, where is your wiki page?
>
> What we could do with is a page where all Povrayers present their websites. I
> actually wanted to do it, but nothing has come of it so far.

<wiki.povray.org/content/User:Jr>

has the most recent versions of my stuff, 'Tabulated()' has had one bug "slain"
(at least, from memory :-)) since the original thread.  cheers.

regards, jr.

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 12:45:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> > Attached are elevations & plan renderings from POV of my current pump house
> > model.
>
> Damn.
> I'm not an architect or a graphic designer, but have done a fair amount of
> building work, and have needed to measure/estimate the sizes of things, and have
> designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
>
> I love this stuff.
>
> Do you model everything as meshes first?
> Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
>
> What about the textures?
> Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
> UV mapping?
>
> Is anything ever done procedurally?
>
> Why/why not would help a lot of people get good work done more quickly and then
> step two is making it LOOK better without 100 iterations of tweaking.
>
> - BE

>> designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.
Nice, that kind of how I got into architecture. I spent summers in high school
restoring churches and was fascinated when I got to work on old sets of
drawings.

>> Do you model everything as meshes first?
For the production/client work, yes, but in POV, I try to build scenes without
mesh. It’s rewarding for me when I can a build a complex object in pure CSG.  I
do use Blender for some complete forms and for exporting position data for POV
types.

>> Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?
Yes, use macros to create 'types' with 'properties' like: bolts, pipes, window
frames, beams, etc. I also use them in writing & testing materials & for
read/write functions between software’s.

>> What about the textures?> Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
>> UV mapping?
For my POV work, it is a mix. I relied heavily on image mapped textures for my
architectural renderings, but I prefer to make procedural textures for my POV
renderings. Professionally, we use a PBR setup with real-time viewing which
makes the texturing process easier. I still export some diffuse and normal maps
out of Substance.

Mike

[Alain Martel] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 12:01:31 GMT

Le 2026-08-04 Ã  18:04, Bald Eagle a Ã©critÂ :
> "Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> 
>> The first one is a Corvette from the Star Wars Universe.
>> https://www.maetes.com/en/blog/new-rubric-povray-ox-and-star-wars-corvette-cr90
> 
> 
> Nice.
> Maybe if you post an image from the movie, we can offer some ideas for
> texturing, etc to make them look even better.
> 
> I see that there are also folks who have 3D models for printing, so there must
> be good geometry out there as well, if that needs any updating too (missing
> pieces, simplistic placeholders, etc)
> 
> The surface could use some light greebling, but it's looking great!  :)
> 
> - BE
> 

That ship is the Blockade Runner that we see at the start of Episode 4, 
Â«A New HopeÂ».

[Maetes] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 11:35:00 GMT

JR

This you mean:
https://news.povray.org/povray.text.scene-files/thread/%3C6143533f%40news.povray.org%3E/

I will check it out.

ma

[Maetes] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 11:30:00 GMT

First of all, I want to publish the repaired and tidy models. Then I start with
extensions.

I don't dare to touch textures for the time being, I'm not good at that. I want
to see the models fly and shoot first:)

Two of them completed their first flight years ago, but that was only
improvised.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDE5s72xvms

JR, where is your wiki page?

What we could do with is a page where all Povrayers present their websites. I
actually wanted to do it, but nothing has come of it so far.

M

[jr] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 06:45:00 GMT

hi,

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> ...
> The first one is a Corvette from the Star Wars Universe.
> ...

I never got into Star Wars, but that craft does look nice.  fwiw, if you need a
'tie fighter', see the demo for 'Tabulated' (my wiki page).


regards, jr.

[jr] Re: Camera settings

Wed, 5 Aug 2026 06:45:00 GMT

hi,

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> >> Where is it?
> Thanks jr, Like an idiot, I keep going to the old documentation instead
> of the "new" POV wiki.

I use the term "senior moment" </grin>.


regards, jr.

[Bald Eagle] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 22:20:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> Attached are elevations & plan renderings from POV of my current pump house
> model.

Damn.
I'm not an architect or a graphic designer, but have done a fair amount of
building work, and have needed to measure/estimate the sizes of things, and have
designed and drawn plans for buildings, staircases, landscapes, etc.

I love this stuff.

Do you model everything as meshes first?
Do you ever create anything with scripts/CSG?

What about the textures?
Are they designed with 3rd party tools?
UV mapping?

Is anything ever done procedurally?

Why/why not would help a lot of people get good work done more quickly and then
step two is making it LOOK better without 100 iterations of tweaking.

- BE

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 22:09:09 GMT

On 04/08/2026 22:28, Mike Miller wrote:
> Love seeing my fish model - it was fun to model. Your lighting shows it off
> well. I'd love to pass a few files to you if you have a free CPU....and
> absolutely no rush. I'm deep into the deep minutia of my current project.

Hi, Mike.
I will be glad to assist you in your projects by rendering them,
looking forward to sources.
--
YB

[Bald Eagle] Re: Star Wars Corvette CR-90

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 22:05:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

> The first one is a Corvette from the Star Wars Universe.
> https://www.maetes.com/en/blog/new-rubric-povray-ox-and-star-wars-corvette-cr90

Nice.
Maybe if you post an image from the movie, we can offer some ideas for
texturing, etc to make them look even better.

I see that there are also folks who have 3D models for printing, so there must
be good geometry out there as well, if that needs any updating too (missing
pieces, simplistic placeholders, etc)

The surface could use some light greebling, but it's looking great!  :)

- BE

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 19:30:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 03/08/2026 23:37, Mike Miller wrote:
> > Yes, that workbench scene does have the object count - almost too many. I would
> > like to animate it someday if I could find a free CPU. :)
> > Mike
>
> Probably I can help you with CPU - I have a hosting with installed
> POVRay 3.8 for long-time experiments, which is not loaded now.
>
> Here is animation of your fish rendered in my small "farm":
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JomLeE21Wic
> --
> YB

Thanks TB.
Love seeing my fish model - it was fun to model. Your lighting shows it off
well. I'd love to pass a few files to you if you have a free CPU....and
absolutely no rush. I'm deep into the deep minutia of my current project.
Mike.

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 19:09:16 GMT

On 03/08/2026 23:37, Mike Miller wrote:
> Yes, that workbench scene does have the object count - almost too many. I would
> like to animate it someday if I could find a free CPU. :)
> Mike

Probably I can help you with CPU - I have a hosting with installed
POVRay 3.8 for long-time experiments, which is not loaded now.

Here is animation of your fish rendered in my small "farm":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JomLeE21Wic
--
YB

[Alain Martel] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 18:59:42 GMT

Le 2026-08-04 Ã  07:26, Maetes a Ã©critÂ :
> 
> Whow, great, thanks for that.
> 
> I had to quit the execution of the script, after more than 3 minutes it was
> parsing and parsing ...
Over 3 minutes of parsing ? Check if you have some infinite loop 
somewhere. That or a MASSIVE mesh with several million of triangles.
Before parsing the mesh, add a debug statement to display the number of 
triangles and vertices.
Within any loop, add a debug to show you a loop counter every 100, 200, 
500 or 1000 iterations.

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 18:35:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "ingo" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> >
> > > old site:  www.miller-headspin.com
> > >
> >
> > Hi Mike, went through the images from your old site. There's quite a few I don't
> > remember some of the later ones I do and then the there's "The Fish of '92".
> > Ahhhh
> >
> > If you still can track them, you should date all your images. Not for the gaps
> > in my memory, but just to see the time line.
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > ingo
>
> Thanks, ingo.
>
> I agree, I need to get dates and some better descriptions on my site. I lost
> most of my scene files from the early 90's to 2000's. I had posted much of this
> work on my CompuServe account...but I think it's vapor.
> I will be scanning and posting more of my artwork/sketches that I use to model
> POV work.
> Mike.


Attached are elevations & plan renderings from POV of my current pump house
model.
Cheers
Mike

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Camera settings

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 14:58:22 GMT

On 03/08/2026 17:36, jr wrote:
> hi,
> 
> kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
>> I probably didn't search properly, but I can't find the default value
>> for the standard camera angle (perspective).
>>
>> Where is it?
> 
> <wiki.povray.org/content/Reference:Camera>
> 
> ~67.380.
> 
> 
> regards, jr.
> 


Thanks jr, Like an idiot, I keep going to the old documentation instead 
of the "new" POV wiki.





-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Maetes] Star Wars Corvette CR-90

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 12:15:00 GMT

In the last few years I have found some finished, partly ancient Povray models
on the Internet, upgraded to version 3.7 and expanded a little.
I now wanted to publish them gradually on my website.

The first one is a Corvette from the Star Wars Universe.
https://www.maetes.com/en/blog/new-rubric-povray-ox-and-star-wars-corvette-cr90

Later it will be the turn of other models, which I hope I can also teach to fly
and shoot, but that will take some time
I have small movies in mind that I would like to create.
But before that, I want to try to get in touch with the original programmer of
the scripts.

If you think I publish everything I find under my name, please read the info
page.
https://www.maetes.com/en/povray-ox/informations

I hope the models will become more numerous quickly, and someone can use them.

Ma

[Maetes] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems

Tue, 4 Aug 2026 11:30:00 GMT

Whow, great, thanks for that.

I had to quit the execution of the script, after more than 3 minutes it was
parsing and parsing ...

But I can probably separate the textures and test them one by one on the
asteroid. If I have new results, I show them, of course.

I'm also a little further along with the iso-asteroid, looked which numbers I
have to change to make it more unround.

Thanks again,
Martin

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 20:50:00 GMT

"ingo" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> > old site:  www.miller-headspin.com
> >
>
> Hi Mike, went through the images from your old site. There's quite a few I don't
> remember some of the later ones I do and then the there's "The Fish of '92".
> Ahhhh
>
> If you still can track them, you should date all your images. Not for the gaps
> in my memory, but just to see the time line.
>
> Cheers!
>
> ingo

Thanks, ingo.

I agree, I need to get dates and some better descriptions on my site. I lost
most of my scene files from the early 90's to 2000's. I had posted much of this
work on my CompuServe account...but I think it's vapor.
I will be scanning and posting more of my artwork/sketches that I use to model
POV work.
Mike.

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 20:40:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Hi Mike, welcome back.
>
> I'm one of the new ones, only active since 2016.
>
> Nice website, crazy good pictures.
>
> I took a look a few days ago, there was a download section, from your workbench.
> Quite a lot of things in it, great that you published it (at least briefly).
>
> It's written for 3.8, but maybe I can still learn a bit for 3.7 (debian
> repository-install).
>
> Greetings from Cologne/Germany.

Hello Germany
Thanks, Maetes.
Yes, that workbench scene does have the object count - almost too many. I would
like to animate it someday if I could find a free CPU. :)
Mike

[Bald Eagle] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 19:45:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

https://news.povray.org/povray.text.scene-files/thread/%3C48d158e3%241%40news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=447197&toff=200

I used the source to do this scene

https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3Cweb.5d3c5fe27be432e04eec112d0%40news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=44797
9&toff=700

Didn't take that long to render IIRC.

- BE

[ingo] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 17:45:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> old site:  www.miller-headspin.com
>

Hi Mike, went through the images from your old site. There's quite a few I don't
remember some of the later ones I do and then the there's "The Fish of '92".
Ahhhh

If you still can track them, you should date all your images. Not for the gaps
in my memory, but just to see the time line.

Cheers!

ingo

[Maetes] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 17:35:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> What about these?
> https://hof.povray.org/pebbles.html

No sourcecode,
and "took 4.5 days to render"

:)

maybe 4.5 days was 20 years ago, but even a minute is to long for me
(movies?)


m

[Bald Eagle] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 17:15:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

> I also looked for textures, which I didn't find right away.

What about these?
https://hof.povray.org/pebbles.html

[Bald Eagle] Re: Camera settings

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 17:10:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
> I probably didn't search properly, but I can't find the default value
> for the standard camera angle (perspective).

https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3C5d95e6c3%241%40news.povray.org%3E/

[Maetes] Re: Popularization of the POV-Ray program on Tik...

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 16:15:00 GMT

If you need free music, try this one.

https://freetouse.com/music

You have to try some tracks to find a good one, but some of them are really
good.
Have used one of them for my spacecraft-movie.
Somewhere you should mention the author and the website (in a description to the
clip), but I think thats no problem.

Ma

[Maetes] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 16:05:00 GMT

Hi Mike, welcome back.

I'm one of the new ones, only active since 2016.

Nice website, crazy good pictures.

I took a look a few days ago, there was a download section, from your workbench.
Quite a lot of things in it, great that you published it (at least briefly).

It's written for 3.8, but maybe I can still learn a bit for 3.7 (debian
repository-install).

Greetings from Cologne/Germany.

[Maetes] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 16:00:00 GMT

I have little experience with Area Light so far, but maybe it's worth a try.
But the render time increases again.

I started with meshes because I found the rock generator and wanted to try it.
I would not have thought that you would see the triangles so well.

Here in the forum I found an isosurface asteroid and it actually looks quite
good, see picture.
Maybe I can improve it further, use it as an object in the foreground and
because of faster rendering time use the meshes for more distant objects.
https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3C449ebecf@news.povray.org%3E?mtop=10&moff=10

I also looked for textures, which I didn't find right away.
I came across this page that shows the built-in textures, very helpful.
https://povray.tashcorp.net/library/stones.inc/

This link
https://www.geocities.ws/evilsnack/index.htm#POVRAY
I have to take a closer look, looks like more training time.

Thanks for all the tips.

M

[jr] Re: Camera settings

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 15:40:00 GMT

hi,

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> I probably didn't search properly, but I can't find the default value
> for the standard camera angle (perspective).
>
> Where is it?

<wiki.povray.org/content/Reference:Camera>

~67.380.


regards, jr.

[kurtz le pirate] Camera settings

Mon, 3 Aug 2026 15:23:23 GMT

Hello,


I probably didn't search properly, but I can't find the default value 
for the standard camera angle (perspective).

Where is it?

Iin the mjh "scree.inc", the default angle is set to 67.380135
That's the correct value ?




Thanks.


-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Sun, 2 Aug 2026 09:47:40 GMT

On 01/08/2026 21:29, Mike Miller wrote:
> Hi guys,
> attached are 2 preliminary renderings of my pumphouse model. I've tweaked the
> design a bit and assigned some 'place-holder' materials before going too far.
> Next will be the upper bridge, stairs & railer, and lamps. ...have a great
> weekend,
> Mike
> 

Looks nice and accurate, materials also "in place",
looking forward to "to be continued" ).
-- 
YB

[Bald Eagle] Re: Rendering impostors

Sat, 1 Aug 2026 20:05:00 GMT

ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:

> A third option is to just not add the objects to the scene that are not
> within the slice of the scene you want.

Yes, some sort of culling script.

Do a loop, grab the min_extent and max_extent of the object, see if the whole
object resides inside the "slice", and if not, then skip it.

- BE

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Sat, 1 Aug 2026 18:30:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 30/07/2026 01:04, Mike Miller wrote:
> > I attached my current working file. It has the gold metal texture. I'll probably
> > be creating a very 'distressed material' for this model in the end. I'll tackle
> > texturing once I have everything built.
>
> Thanks so much for this 'gold', I will put it into my materials
> collection.
> --
> YB

Hi guys,
attached are 2 preliminary renderings of my pumphouse model. I've tweaked the
design a bit and assigned some 'place-holder' materials before going too far.
Next will be the upper bridge, stairs & railer, and lamps. ...have a great
weekend,
Mike

[ingo] Re: Rendering impostors

Sat, 1 Aug 2026 18:04:07 GMT

Thinking of it there may be an other way, that depends a bit on your 
scene versus the slice you want from it. Objects can have the options 
no-image, no-shadow, no-refection to hide it from the scene.

A third option is to just not add the objects to the scene that are not 
within the slice of the scene you want.

ingo

[fronk123] Re: Rendering impostors

Sat, 1 Aug 2026 17:20:00 GMT

"ingo" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> "fronk123" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > Hi i'm a new User and i was wonderig if it was possible to render a scene and
> > then only show a certain depth range of the rendered scene.
>
> Yes, you can wrap the whole scene in a union{} and then difference or intersect
> that with two planes. The slice is our depth range. Although it may not look
> like you wish.
>
> unless you mean focal blur, that is a camera setting that takes some tweaking.
>
> ingo

thank you, what you said is a solution to what i want i think, gonna have to
experiment with that, when i figure out how it works

[ingo] Re: Rendering impostors

Sat, 1 Aug 2026 15:40:00 GMT

"fronk123" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Hi i'm a new User and i was wonderig if it was possible to render a scene and
> then only show a certain depth range of the rendered scene.

Yes, you can wrap the whole scene in a union{} and then difference or intersect
that with two planes. The slice is our depth range. Although it may not look
like you wish.

unless you mean focal blur, that is a camera setting that takes some tweaking.

ingo

[fronk123] Rendering impostors

Sat, 1 Aug 2026 15:15:00 GMT

Hi i'm a new User and i was wonderig if it was possible to render a scene and
then only show a certain depth range of the rendered scene.

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems

Sat, 1 Aug 2026 14:43:03 GMT

On 31/07/2026 12:36, Bald Eagle wrote:
> kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
>> On 29/07/2026 13:33, Maetes wrote:
>>> ...
>>> Are there other ways to improve the mesh or other scripts to create it?
>>
>> By increasing the number of triangles and thus the accuracy ?
> 
> Yes, but as he stated in the sentence immediately prior:
> "I have already set the number of triangles very high, more is hardly possible."
> 

I read it too quickly and it was poorly translated. Sorry.




-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Bald Eagle] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems

Fri, 31 Jul 2026 10:40:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> On 29/07/2026 13:33, Maetes wrote:
> > ...
> > Are there other ways to improve the mesh or other scripts to create it?
>
> By increasing the number of triangles and thus the accuracy ?

Yes, but as he stated in the sentence immediately prior:
"I have already set the number of triangles very high, more is hardly possible."

so it looks to me like he needs to move from a fixed geometry to an implicit or
interpolative one.

- BE

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems

Fri, 31 Jul 2026 09:40:31 GMT

On 29/07/2026 13:33, Maetes wrote:
> ...
> ...
> Are there other ways to improve the mesh or other scripts to create it?


By increasing the number of triangles and thus the accuracy ?

Two sets of macros that can be used for this :
* The New (and Improved!) Surface Subdivision Suite
* The Catmull-Clark Surface Subdivision Suite


On John's website :
<https://www.geocities.ws/evilsnack/index.htm#POVRAY>





-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Bald Eagle] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems

Thu, 30 Jul 2026 13:30:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

> 1. Dark triangles
.....
> Are there other ways to improve the mesh or other scripts to create it?

What if you used an isosurface? Then you could do away with triangles completely
and have "infinite resolution".

> 2. Textures
> I've already played around with textures a bit, but I'm not completely
> satisfied.

I'd just start searching the forums for rocks, asteroids, meteors, and any other
sort of concrete, brick, mortar textures.
Be sure to add normals to your object, and don't underestimate how strongly
lighting affects how things appear.

- BE

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Animation with sine waves?

Thu, 30 Jul 2026 08:13:44 GMT

On 29/07/2026 12:41, Bald Eagle wrote:
> "S I R ?" <fra### [at] jaliscoedumx> wrote:
>> kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> 
>>> // 50 degrees -> +/- 25 deg or something else, of course
>>> #declare Amplitude = 50;
>>> #declare HalfAmplitude = Amplitude*0.50;
> 
> You want the pendulum to swing over a certain amount on both sides.
> kurtz defines the included angle as "Amplitude" and then takes half of that as
> the amount it swings to either side.
> 
>>> Object to animate is "Object"
>>>
>>> object {
>>>     Object
> So now he places the Object in the scene, and to rotate it in the animation, he
> creates an equation using the clock variable.
> 
> if you point at your screen, your arm an finger are in the direction of the z
> axis.  So rotating around z rotates things in the plane of your screen.
> By how much?
> Well the max is "HalfAmlitude".
> And we want to go from 0 to HalfAmplitude to 0 to -HalfAmplitude to 0 to .....
> 
> A circle is 2*pi radians around in angular units. (tau = 2*pi)
> plotting sin on a unit circle goes from 0 to 1 to 0 to -1 to 0 to ....
> 
> So as the clock variable increases from 0 to 1, we take that and multiply it by
> tau.  That gives us a value that goes from 0 to tau.
> Taking the sin of that gives us a value that goes from 0 to 1 to 0 to -1 to 0 to
> .....
> then multiplying that by HalfAmplitude gives us a value that goes from 0 to
> HalfAmplitude to 0 to -HalfAmplitude to 0 to .....
> and of course we need a vector to pass to "rotate", and so we multiply by z
> 
>>>     rotate sin(clock*tau)*HalfAmplitude*z
>>>     }
>>>
>>> 'clock' from 0.0 to 1.0
> 


Perfect BE. I couldn't have said it better myself


-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Ilya Razmanov] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems

Thu, 30 Jul 2026 06:07:25 GMT

On 29.07.2026 14:33, Maetes wrote:

> 2. Textures
> I've already played around with textures a bit, but I'm not completely
> satisfied.
> Does anyone have any textures for a similar use that they would like to share?
> 

I guess you can use Phobos and Deimos photos as some source for ideas. 
They are quite like asteroids but have more extensive portfolio.

In general, I suspect that slops and normals may disguise triangle 
flatness pretty well.

-- 
Ilyich the Toad
https://dnyarri.github.io/

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 22:24:00 GMT

On 30/07/2026 01:04, Mike Miller wrote:
> I attached my current working file. It has the gold metal texture. I'll probably
> be creating a very 'distressed material' for this model in the end. I'll tackle
> texturing once I have everything built.

Thanks so much for this 'gold', I will put it into my materials
collection.
--
YB

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 22:05:01 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 29/07/2026 21:34, Mike Miller wrote:
> > Very cool stuff YB. I checked out povlab.yesbird.online stuff. Well done on the
> > materials and viewer. That's all Java? I don't know a thing about WASM... just
> > checked it out.... I'd love to see your progress on that.
> >
>
> Thanks, Mike.
> This is my first attempt to make a POV closer to the modern
> world ). BTW, I've embedded your materials browser here, as I found it
> very useful:
> https://povlab.yesbird.online/?scene=materials/samples_default.pov
>
> WASM compiling can be painful and need a lot of effort to get a stable
> result. This is the reason I postponed it to the autumn, preferring to
> relax in the summer ).
>
> > I'd like to push a few more scenes into animations and dust of some really old
> > work - now that rendering times have really drop compared to 1990's.  :)
>
> Exactly !
>
> >
> > This pump house is going to take me a few weeks to model and another month of
> > landscape work if I had to guess. I'm going to model a lizard as a feature
> > foreground object and use the pump-house structure as a backdrop.
>
> Respect, you have a lot of patience (which I need) to make such a large
> scene. Lizard in industrial environment ? Sounds cool - looking forward
> to see it (sketch at least :)).
>
> >
> > I attached my current POV model / progress of the flywheel and mounts.
> > Most made with lathe or prisms with cubic or linear splines - depending on a
> > bevel or curve look.
>
> I found it very neat, especially "golden wheels" - excellent material,
> which can probably be used in jewelry rendering.
> --
> YB

Thanks. Yes, I need to work out a better sketch.
I attached my current working file. It has the gold metal texture. I'll probably
be creating a very 'distressed material' for this model in the end. I'll tackle
texturing once I have everything built.
Mike.

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 19:39:07 GMT

On 29/07/2026 21:34, Mike Miller wrote:
> Very cool stuff YB. I checked out povlab.yesbird.online stuff. Well done on the
> materials and viewer. That's all Java? I don't know a thing about WASM... just
> checked it out.... I'd love to see your progress on that.
> 

Thanks, Mike.
This is my first attempt to make a POV closer to the modern
world ). BTW, I've embedded your materials browser here, as I found it
very useful:
https://povlab.yesbird.online/?scene=materials/samples_default.pov

WASM compiling can be painful and need a lot of effort to get a stable
result. This is the reason I postponed it to the autumn, preferring to
relax in the summer ).

> I'd like to push a few more scenes into animations and dust of some really old
> work - now that rendering times have really drop compared to 1990's.  :)

Exactly !

> 
> This pump house is going to take me a few weeks to model and another month of
> landscape work if I had to guess. I'm going to model a lizard as a feature
> foreground object and use the pump-house structure as a backdrop.

Respect, you have a lot of patience (which I need) to make such a large
scene. Lizard in industrial environment ? Sounds cool - looking forward
to see it (sketch at least :)).

> 
> I attached my current POV model / progress of the flywheel and mounts.
> Most made with lathe or prisms with cubic or linear splines - depending on a
> bevel or curve look.

I found it very neat, especially "golden wheels" - excellent material,
which can probably be used in jewelry rendering.
-- 
YB

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 18:35:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 28/07/2026 00:52, Mike Miller wrote:
> > thanks, YB.
> > How have you been? What fun ideas have you been working on? Sorry, I need to
> > read through the threads.  ...any ways, cheers.
> >
>
> Hi, Mike.
> There are a lot of things I would like to do, and some of them
> POV-related. I moved to browser-based Javascript graphics (Three.js) and
> building the bridge between this technology and POV-Ray, first attempt
> is here: https://povlab.yesbird.online/
>
> Next project is based on POV-ray studio (online converter from popular
> formats to mesh2 https://povlab.yesbird.online/studio/) is a jewelry
> renderer (early beta now):
> https://jray.yesbird.online/
>
> All POV rendering is done on the server now, but I am thinking about
> pushing it into the browser with WASM. This is a serious challenge, so I
> need a time to prepare carefully to start, maybe in September ...
>
> BTW, here is my portfolio:
> https://yesbird.online/
>
> Hope your work on Pump House will be smooth and fast.
> What other plans do you have ?
> --
> YB

Very cool stuff YB. I checked out povlab.yesbird.online stuff. Well done on the
materials and viewer. That's all Java? I don't know a thing about WASM... just
checked it out.... I'd love to see your progress on that.

I'd like to push a few more scenes into animations and dust of some really old
work - now that rendering times have really drop compared to 1990's.  :)

This pump house is going to take me a few weeks to model and another month of
landscape work if I had to guess. I'm going to model a lizard as a feature
foreground object and use the pump-house structure as a backdrop.

I attached my current POV model / progress of the flywheel and mounts.
Most made with lathe or prisms with cubic or linear splines - depending on a
bevel or curve look.

Mike

[Alain Martel] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 15:21:36 GMT

Le 2026-07-29 Ã  07:33, Maetes a Ã©critÂ :
> Hi Ladies
> 
> I'm currently trying to design an asteroid.
> 
> I created the mesh with the rock generator from John "Evil Snack", see website:
> https://www.geocities.ws/evilsnack/inc.htm
> 
> The result looks reasonably good, but improvements would be possible.
> Maybe one of you has some ideas.
> 
> 1. Dark triangles
> Especially in movies you can see that it is built up of triangles.
> First they are black, and less than a degree of rotation further they are
> bright.
> This may not be particularly noticeable in individual frames, but in movies it
> is annoying.
> I have already set the number of triangles very high, more is hardly possible.
> Are there other ways to improve the mesh or other scripts to create it?

Unavoidable when using meshes. Those dark/black triangles are just 
triangles that are physically facing away from the light, even if their 
normals are oriented toward the light.
Using an area_light with the area_illumination MAY help. Adjust the 
extent of the light until your results are acceptable. That area_light 
need to have the circular attribute. Be sure to use adaptive 0. Don't 
fear using something like 65x65, or more, for the number of elements. 
With adaptive 0, most of the time, only the corners will be evaluated.

> 
> 2. Textures
> I've already played around with textures a bit, but I'm not completely
> satisfied.
> Does anyone have any textures for a similar use that they would like to share?

As a lot of asteroids are really just big balls of gravel, some gravel 
based textures should be pretty realistic.

[Maetes] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 11:45:00 GMT

and another

[Maetes] Re: Asteroid - textures and problems

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 11:40:00 GMT

Here one of the results

[Maetes] Asteroid - textures and problems

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 11:35:00 GMT

Hi Ladies

I'm currently trying to design an asteroid.

I created the mesh with the rock generator from John "Evil Snack", see website:
https://www.geocities.ws/evilsnack/inc.htm

The result looks reasonably good, but improvements would be possible.
Maybe one of you has some ideas.

1. Dark triangles
Especially in movies you can see that it is built up of triangles.
First they are black, and less than a degree of rotation further they are
bright.
This may not be particularly noticeable in individual frames, but in movies it
is annoying.
I have already set the number of triangles very high, more is hardly possible.
Are there other ways to improve the mesh or other scripts to create it?

2. Textures
I've already played around with textures a bit, but I'm not completely
satisfied.
Does anyone have any textures for a similar use that they would like to share?

If the final result is presentable, I will of course publish it on my website
sooner or later.
Then others would also benefit from your ideas.

A short film is available here:
https://www.maetes.com/stuff/povray_forum_26_asteroid.mp4
8.4 MB, 24 seconds, 30 fps

Attached is a zip with my test environment, cropped to the bare minimum.
It can be executed via terminal with:
povray +Ies_generator_rock_examples_nano.pov +Otest/es_rock_nano_00.png +w1920
+h1080 -GR +A

Have a nice day,
Ma

[Bald Eagle] Re: Animation with sine waves?

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 10:45:00 GMT

"S I R ?" <fra### [at] jaliscoedumx> wrote:
> kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:

> > // 50 degrees -> +/- 25 deg or something else, of course
> > #declare Amplitude = 50;
> > #declare HalfAmplitude = Amplitude*0.50;

You want the pendulum to swing over a certain amount on both sides.
kurtz defines the included angle as "Amplitude" and then takes half of that as
the amount it swings to either side.

> > Object to animate is "Object"
> >
> > object {
> >    Object
So now he places the Object in the scene, and to rotate it in the animation, he
creates an equation using the clock variable.

if you point at your screen, your arm an finger are in the direction of the z
axis.  So rotating around z rotates things in the plane of your screen.
By how much?
Well the max is "HalfAmlitude".
And we want to go from 0 to HalfAmplitude to 0 to -HalfAmplitude to 0 to .....

A circle is 2*pi radians around in angular units. (tau = 2*pi)
plotting sin on a unit circle goes from 0 to 1 to 0 to -1 to 0 to ....

So as the clock variable increases from 0 to 1, we take that and multiply it by
tau.  That gives us a value that goes from 0 to tau.
Taking the sin of that gives us a value that goes from 0 to 1 to 0 to -1 to 0 to
.....
then multiplying that by HalfAmplitude gives us a value that goes from 0 to
HalfAmplitude to 0 to -HalfAmplitude to 0 to .....
and of course we need a vector to pass to "rotate", and so we multiply by z

> >    rotate sin(clock*tau)*HalfAmplitude*z
> >    }
> >
> > 'clock' from 0.0 to 1.0

[S I R ?] Re: Animation with sine waves?

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 03:40:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> On 23/07/2026 06:30, Sir wrote:
> >
> > Hello POV-Ray Users!
> >
> > So, i was rendering an animation of a metronome whose pendulum swings back and
> > forth between a specific angle and its negative.
> >
>
> Hello 'Sir Francisco',
>
> I think you're making things harder on yourself....
>
>
> For exemple :
>
> // 50 degrees -> +/- 25 deg or something else, of course
> #declare Amplitude = 50;
> #declare HalfAmplitude = Amplitude*0.50;
>
>
> Object to animate is "Object"
>
> object {
>    Object
>    rotate sin(clock*tau)*HalfAmplitude*z
>    }
>
> 'clock' from 0.0 to 1.0
>
>
> In this exemple, oscillations is around z-axis.
>
> I hope this helps...
>
>
>
>
> --
> kurtz le pirate
> compagnie de la banquise

Thanks! i tried it and it worked!
If you don't mind, could you explain to me how it works?

- S I R ?

[S I R ?] Re: Animation with sine waves?

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 03:30:00 GMT

"ingo" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> "Sir" <fra### [at] jaliscoedumx> wrote:
>
> > #declare actangle = maxangle * sin( clock * 4 ) * cos( clock * 4 );
> > [...]
> >     rotate <0,0,clock*actangle>
>
> Didn't analyse the full thing but noticed the clock as well in actangle as in
> rotate again. So you animate the animation, removing the clock from rotate might
> do the trick?
>
> ingo

Sorry, i didn't knew what i was doing

- S I R ?

[S I R ?] Re: Animation with sine waves?

Wed, 29 Jul 2026 03:25:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "ingo" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > "Sir" <fra### [at] jaliscoedumx> wrote:
> >
> > > #declare actangle = maxangle * sin( clock * 4 ) * cos( clock * 4 );
> > > [...]
> > >     rotate <0,0,clock*actangle>
> >
> > Didn't analyse the full thing but noticed the clock as well in actangle as in
> > rotate again. So you animate the animation, removing the clock from rotate might
> > do the trick?
> >
> > ingo
>
> Also, why is sin getting multiplied by cos?
> I would just use cos to oscillate between 1 and -1.
>
> - BE

I don't really know why, i just messed up with something i don't even
know about :(

Also, thanks for your time and patience!

- S I R ?

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 22:28:02 GMT

On 28/07/2026 00:52, Mike Miller wrote:
> thanks, YB.
> How have you been? What fun ideas have you been working on? Sorry, I need to
> read through the threads.  ...any ways, cheers.
> 

Hi, Mike.
There are a lot of things I would like to do, and some of them
POV-related. I moved to browser-based Javascript graphics (Three.js) and
building the bridge between this technology and POV-Ray, first attempt
is here: https://povlab.yesbird.online/

Next project is based on POV-ray studio (online converter from popular
formats to mesh2 https://povlab.yesbird.online/studio/) is a jewelry
renderer (early beta now):
https://jray.yesbird.online/

All POV rendering is done on the server now, but I am thinking about
pushing it into the browser with WASM. This is a serious challenge, so I
need a time to prepare carefully to start, maybe in September ...

BTW, here is my portfolio:
https://yesbird.online/

Hope your work on Pump House will be smooth and fast.
What other plans do you have ?
--
YB

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 21:55:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 27/07/2026 15:28, Mike Miller wrote:
> > As I work through the POV scene building, I'll keep posting screen grabs on my
> > web page. I'm currently exporting point position 'profiles' from Blender for POV
> > lathes.
>
> Looking forward to see them, good luck !
> --
> YB

thanks, YB.
How have you been? What fun ideas have you been working on? Sorry, I need to
read through the threads.  ...any ways, cheers.

[Cossack ] Re: Termux !!!

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 13:40:00 GMT

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> ~/POV_Projects_SD/balcony $ uberpov -version
> uberpov: cannot open the system configuration file
> /usr/local/etc/uberpov/1.37/uberpov.conf: No such file or directory
> UberPOV 1.37.1.0
>
> This is an unofficial version compiled by:
>  Termux User
> Neither the POV-Ray Team(tm) nor the UberPOV maintainers are responsible for
> supporting this version.
>
> Copyright 1991-2015 Persistence of Vision Raytracer Pty. Ltd.
> This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
> warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
>
> Built-in features:
>   I/O restrictions:          enabled
>   X Window display:          disabled
>   Supported image formats:   gif tga iff ppm pgm hdr png jpeg tiff
>   Unsupported image formats: openexr
>
> Compilation settings:
>   Build architecture:  armv8l-unknown-linux-androideabi
>   Built/Optimized for: armv8l-unknown-linux-androideabi
>   Compiler vendor:     gnu
>   Compiler version:    clang++ 21.1.8
>   Compiler flags:      -pipe -Wno-multichar -Wno-write-strings -O3 -ffast-math
> -std=c++17
> ~/POV_Projects_SD/balcony $ povray -version
> POV-Ray 3.8.0-beta.2.unofficial
>
> This is an unofficial version compiled by:
>  Termux
>  The POV-Ray Team is not responsible for supporting this version.
>
> Copyright 1991-2021 Persistence of Vision Raytracer Pty. Ltd.
> This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
> warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
>
> Built-in features:
>   I/O restrictions:          enabled
>   X Window display:          disabled
>   Supported image formats:   gif tga iff ppm pgm hdr png jpeg tiff openexr
>   Unsupported image formats: -
>
> Compilation settings:
>   Build architecture:  x86_64-pc-linux-gnu
>   Built/Optimized for: arm-unknown-linux-androideabi
>   Compiler vendor:     clang
>   Compiler version:    arm-linux-androideabi-clang++ 21.0.0
>   Compiler flags:      -march=armv7-a -mfpu=neon -mfloat-abi=softfp -mthumb
> -fstack-protector-strong -Oz -std=c++14 -pthread
> ~/POV_Projects_SD/balcony $ uberpov -version
> uberpov: cannot open the system configuration file
> /usr/local/etc/uberpov/1.37/uberpov.conf: No such file or directory
> ....
> ~/POV_Projects_SD/balcony $
>
> The Holy Trinity in one room !!!!

Oops, forgot this one — NOW the trinity is complete >:]] !!!!!"
POV_Projects_SD/balcony $ megapov -version
megapov: cannot open the system configuration file
/usr/local/etc/megapov/1.2.1/povray.conf: No such file or directory
megapov: cannot open the user configuration file
/data/data/com.termux/files/home/.megapov/1.2.1/povray.conf: No such file or
directory
megapov: I/O restrictions are disabled.
Persistence of Vision(tm) Ray Tracer Version MegaPOV 1.2.1/ based on Pov-RAY
 3.6.1 (clang++ @ armv8l-unknown-linux-gnu)
This is an unofficial version compiled by:
 Termux User
 The POV-Ray Team(tm) is not responsible for supporting this version.
POV-Ray is based on DKBTrace 2.12 by David K. Buck & Aaron A. Collins
Copyright 1991-2003 Persistence of Vision Team
Copyright 2003-2004 Persistence of Vision Raytracer Pty. Ltd.

Primary POV-Ray 3.5/3.6 Developers: (Alphabetically)
  Chris Cason         Thorsten Froehlich  Nathan Kopp         Ron Parker

Contributing Authors: (Alphabetically)
  Steve Anger         Eric Barish         Dieter Bayer        Steve A. Bennett
  David K. Buck       Nicolas Calimet     Aaron A. Collins    Chris Dailey
  Steve Demlow        Andreas Dilger      Alexander Enzmann   Dan Farmer
  Mark Gordon         Christoph Hormann   Mike Hough          Chris Huff
  Kari Kivisalo       Lutz Kretzschmar    Jochen Lippert      Pascal Massimino
  Jim McElhiney       Douglas Muir        Juha Nieminen       Bill Pulver
  Eduard Schwan       Wlodzimierz Skiba   Robert Skinner      Yvo Smellenbergh
  Zsolt Szalavari     Scott Taylor        Massimo Valentini   Timothy Wegner
  Drew Wells          Chris Young

MegaPOV Contributing Authors: (Alphabetically)
  Christophe Bouffartigue  Thorsten Froehlich       Christoph Hormann
  Chris Huff               Jurjen                   Kari Kivisalo
  Nathan Kopp              Vahur Krouverk           William Pokorny
  Micha Riser              Wlodzimierz Skiba        Rene Smellenbergh
  Yvo Smellenbergh         Massimo Valentini        Thomas Willhalm

Other contributors are listed in the documentation.

Support libraries used by POV-Ray:
  ZLib 1.3.2, Copyright 1995-1998 Jean-loup Gailly and Mark Adler
  LibPNG 1.6.58, Copyright 1998-2002 Glenn Randers-Pehrson
  LibJPEG 8, Copyright 1998 Thomas G. Lane
  LibTIFF 4.7.2, Copyright 1988-1997 Sam Leffler, 1991-1997 SGI
Redirecting Options
  All Streams to console..........On
  Debug Stream to console.........On
  Fatal Stream to console.........On
  Render Stream to console........On
  Statistics Stream to console....On
  Warning Stream to console.......On
Parsing Options
  Input file: OBJECT.POV (compatible to version 3.61)
  Remove bounds........On
  Split unions.........Off
  Library paths:
    /data/data/com.termux/files/home/povray-3.6.1/include
Output Options
  Image resolution 100 by 100 (rows 1 to 100, columns 1 to 100).
  Output file: /storage/0000-0000/POV_Projects/balcony/OBJECT.png, 24 bpp PNG
  Graphic display......Off
  Mosaic preview.......Off
  CPU usage histogram..Off
  Continued trace......Off
Tracing Options
  Quality:  9
  Bounding boxes.......On   Bounding threshold: 25
  Light Buffer.........On
  Vista Buffer.........On   Draw Vista Buffer....Off
  Antialiasing.........Off
  Clock value:    0.000  (Animation off)

  0:00:00 Parsing
Possible Scene File Parser Initialization Error: Could not find file
 'OBJECT.POV'
Scene File Parser Initialization Error: Cannot open input file.
Total Scene Processing Times
  Parse Time:    0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
  Photon Time:   0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
  Cloth Time:    0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
  Mechsim Time:  0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
  Render Time:   0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
  Postpr. Time:  0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
  Total Time:    0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
~/POV_Projects_SD/balcony $

[Cossack ] Termux !!!

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 12:40:00 GMT

~/POV_Projects_SD/balcony $ uberpov -version
uberpov: cannot open the system configuration file
/usr/local/etc/uberpov/1.37/uberpov.conf: No such file or directory
UberPOV 1.37.1.0

This is an unofficial version compiled by:
 Termux User
Neither the POV-Ray Team(tm) nor the UberPOV maintainers are responsible for
supporting this version.

Copyright 1991-2015 Persistence of Vision Raytracer Pty. Ltd.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

Built-in features:
  I/O restrictions:          enabled
  X Window display:          disabled
  Supported image formats:   gif tga iff ppm pgm hdr png jpeg tiff
  Unsupported image formats: openexr

Compilation settings:
  Build architecture:  armv8l-unknown-linux-androideabi
  Built/Optimized for: armv8l-unknown-linux-androideabi
  Compiler vendor:     gnu
  Compiler version:    clang++ 21.1.8
  Compiler flags:      -pipe -Wno-multichar -Wno-write-strings -O3 -ffast-math
-std=c++17
~/POV_Projects_SD/balcony $ povray -version
POV-Ray 3.8.0-beta.2.unofficial

This is an unofficial version compiled by:
 Termux
 The POV-Ray Team is not responsible for supporting this version.

Copyright 1991-2021 Persistence of Vision Raytracer Pty. Ltd.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

Built-in features:
  I/O restrictions:          enabled
  X Window display:          disabled
  Supported image formats:   gif tga iff ppm pgm hdr png jpeg tiff openexr
  Unsupported image formats: -

Compilation settings:
  Build architecture:  x86_64-pc-linux-gnu
  Built/Optimized for: arm-unknown-linux-androideabi
  Compiler vendor:     clang
  Compiler version:    arm-linux-androideabi-clang++ 21.0.0
  Compiler flags:      -march=armv7-a -mfpu=neon -mfloat-abi=softfp -mthumb
-fstack-protector-strong -Oz -std=c++14 -pthread
~/POV_Projects_SD/balcony $ uberpov -version
uberpov: cannot open the system configuration file
/usr/local/etc/uberpov/1.37/uberpov.conf: No such file or directory
....
~/POV_Projects_SD/balcony $

The Holy Trinity in one room !!!!

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 12:36:08 GMT

On 27/07/2026 15:28, Mike Miller wrote:
> As I work through the POV scene building, I'll keep posting screen grabs on my
> web page. I'm currently exporting point position 'profiles' from Blender for POV
> lathes.

Looking forward to see them, good luck !
--
YB

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 12:30:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 27/07/2026 14:14, Mike Miller wrote:
> > It is. If you can get the model to behave and render correctly out of these Bim
> > products. Coincidental faces or shading problem showed their ugly head in
> > animation.
> > oopps...
> > I thought I attached this.
>
>  From PDF I see that the scene is large, maybe it makes sense to get
> something less for the start ?
>
> To prepare scene for online and  test how it will work this editor can
> help a lot: https://threejs.org/editor/
> --
> YB

Thanks. That Petmin project was from 2000-2001. I heard they filed for
bankruptcy. I wonder if GPD got paid. I did. :) ...perks of not being the owner.
haha

As I work through the POV scene building, I'll keep posting screen grabs on my
web page. I'm currently exporting point position 'profiles' from Blender for POV
lathes.
Mike

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 11:33:13 GMT

On 27/07/2026 14:14, Mike Miller wrote:
> It is. If you can get the model to behave and render correctly out of these Bim
> products. Coincidental faces or shading problem showed their ugly head in
> animation.
> oopps...
> I thought I attached this.

 From PDF I see that the scene is large, maybe it makes sense to get
something less for the start ?

To prepare scene for online and  test how it will work this editor can
help a lot: https://threejs.org/editor/
--
YB

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 11:15:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 27/07/2026 04:35, Mike Miller wrote:
> > Thanks, YB. Yeah, I've work on many projects that included modeling major
> > piping, pumps, and conduit. I like the look of the technical complexity, even
> > though I have little idea how it works. :) Attached is a project that I worked
> > on for months for Pitman Pigiron. I need to find my interior renderings of the
> > facility. Thes model is more complex than the exterior. Built in Naviworks
> > before importing to Revit & Max for site work. Day & night animations in Lumion
> > Mike
>
> I see you have a rich background and a large archive of interesting
> geometry. What about publishing them online in 3D with my following
> tools:
>
> https://povlab.yesbird.online/studio/
> https://galleries.yesbird.online/vr/
>
> Guess it will be interesting to walk through pumps and pipes in VR ).
> --
> YB

It is. If you can get the model to behave and render correctly out of these Bim
products. Coincidental faces or shading problem showed their ugly head in
animation.
oopps...
I thought I attached this.

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 10:47:54 GMT

On 27/07/2026 04:35, Mike Miller wrote:
> Thanks, YB. Yeah, I've work on many projects that included modeling major
> piping, pumps, and conduit. I like the look of the technical complexity, even
> though I have little idea how it works. :) Attached is a project that I worked
> on for months for Pitman Pigiron. I need to find my interior renderings of the
> facility. Thes model is more complex than the exterior. Built in Naviworks
> before importing to Revit & Max for site work. Day & night animations in Lumion
> Mike

I see you have a rich background and a large archive of interesting
geometry. What about publishing them online in 3D with my following
tools:

https://povlab.yesbird.online/studio/
https://galleries.yesbird.online/vr/

Guess it will be interesting to walk through pumps and pipes in VR ).
--
YB

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Mon, 27 Jul 2026 01:40:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 26/07/2026 18:57, Mike Miller wrote:
> >
> > I've added some progress images to my Pump House page and a bullet list of
> > processes. I was able to get a temp license for Revit and extracted the CAD and
> > 3D models I wanted before starting the POV model. I'll start on the main
> > flywheel and mounts first and post progress as I go.
> > miller
>
> Hi, Mike!
> Glad to see (read) you here again after a long break. Your new site
> looks neat and elegant. Pump House is also exiting (I like industrial
> environment), especially rendered with Lumion which make it even more
> impressive.
>
> Looking forward for POV version - good luck with this work !
> --
> YB

Thanks, YB. Yeah, I've work on many projects that included modeling major
piping, pumps, and conduit. I like the look of the technical complexity, even
though I have little idea how it works. :) Attached is a project that I worked
on for months for Pitman Pigiron. I need to find my interior renderings of the
facility. Thes model is more complex than the exterior. Built in Naviworks
before importing to Revit & Max for site work. Day & night animations in Lumion
Mike

[yesbird] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Sun, 26 Jul 2026 19:25:25 GMT

On 26/07/2026 18:57, Mike Miller wrote:
> 
> I've added some progress images to my Pump House page and a bullet list of
> processes. I was able to get a temp license for Revit and extracted the CAD and
> 3D models I wanted before starting the POV model. I'll start on the main
> flywheel and mounts first and post progress as I go.
> miller

Hi, Mike!
Glad to see (read) you here again after a long break. Your new site
looks neat and elegant. Pump House is also exiting (I like industrial
environment), especially rendered with Lumion which make it even more
impressive.

Looking forward for POV version - good luck with this work !
--
YB

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Sun, 26 Jul 2026 16:00:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> > "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks BE.
> > Thank _you_, Mike.
> > It's been great see all of the sketches, development, WIPs, and renders.
> >
> > > I'll set up a page on my website for this current project 'pump house' and post
> > > here with any news or updates. I found my original concept sketches and the
> > > Collada/Lumion files. I'll take some screen grabs of this model and post along
> > > with my sketches and images I gathered for reference & inspiration. I always
> > > pull images and sketch* what I can before I get too far into modeling. I built
> > > the first model in Revit and exported it to Unity and Lumion for animations and
> > > visuals.
> >
> > Yes.  I think that "storyboarding" or flowcharting how you go from initial idea
> > to final render would do much to dispel the "magic" of how such final renders
> > come into being.
> >
> > You don't just open up a text editor and start typing out SDL.
> > (Well, _I_ do a lot of times . . .)
> > Showing all of the sketches and modelers and conversion utilities, and 3rd party
> > software that gets used in preparation for a final POV-Ray render, and then
> > maybe even post-render processing would be a master class in what you do so
> > well.
> >
> > > .... I'm also thinking
> > > about camera path animations and how to break a scene down into manageable
> > > parts.
> >
> > Yeah - that's always another layer of challenges which have their own solutions.
> >
> > - BE
>
> Thanks, BE
> I just posted some concept sketches for this POV piece along with images of my
> past models to my web. I'll do have a 'plan of attack' to make this happen in
> POV and will put a bullet-list together.
> miller

I've added some progress images to my Pump House page and a bullet list of
processes. I was able to get a temp license for Revit and extracted the CAD and
3D models I wanted before starting the POV model. I'll start on the main
flywheel and mounts first and post progress as I go.
miller

[jr] Re: Returning to POV-Ray

Sat, 25 Jul 2026 15:15:00 GMT

hi,

"Macca" <almac45@gmail,com> wrote:
> ...
> Hi JC. I'm going back to around 2012.
> But someone else has replied telling me where is it.
> I had been looking for it in the menu.

great, and thanks.


@KlP cheers.


regards, jr.

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Animation with sine waves?

Sat, 25 Jul 2026 09:53:25 GMT

On 23/07/2026 06:30, Sir wrote:
> 
> Hello POV-Ray Users!
> 
> So, i was rendering an animation of a metronome whose pendulum swings back and
> forth between a specific angle and its negative.
> 

Hello 'Sir Francisco',

I think you're making things harder on yourself....


For exemple :

// 50 degrees -> +/- 25 deg or something else, of course
#declare Amplitude = 50;
#declare HalfAmplitude = Amplitude*0.50;


Object to animate is "Object"

object {
   Object
   rotate sin(clock*tau)*HalfAmplitude*z
   }

'clock' from 0.0 to 1.0


In this exemple, oscillations is around z-axis.

I hope this helps...




-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 23:10:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> > Thanks BE.
> Thank _you_, Mike.
> It's been great see all of the sketches, development, WIPs, and renders.
>
> > I'll set up a page on my website for this current project 'pump house' and post
> > here with any news or updates. I found my original concept sketches and the
> > Collada/Lumion files. I'll take some screen grabs of this model and post along
> > with my sketches and images I gathered for reference & inspiration. I always
> > pull images and sketch* what I can before I get too far into modeling. I built
> > the first model in Revit and exported it to Unity and Lumion for animations and
> > visuals.
>
> Yes.  I think that "storyboarding" or flowcharting how you go from initial idea
> to final render would do much to dispel the "magic" of how such final renders
> come into being.
>
> You don't just open up a text editor and start typing out SDL.
> (Well, _I_ do a lot of times . . .)
> Showing all of the sketches and modelers and conversion utilities, and 3rd party
> software that gets used in preparation for a final POV-Ray render, and then
> maybe even post-render processing would be a master class in what you do so
> well.
>
> > .... I'm also thinking
> > about camera path animations and how to break a scene down into manageable
> > parts.
>
> Yeah - that's always another layer of challenges which have their own solutions.
>
> - BE

Thanks, BE
I just posted some concept sketches for this POV piece along with images of my
past models to my web. I'll do have a 'plan of attack' to make this happen in
POV and will put a bullet-list together.
miller

[Macca] Re: Returning to POV-Ray

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 21:30:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> On 24/07/2026 16:19, jr wrote:
> > hi,
> >
> > "Macca" <almac45@gmail,com> wrote:
> >> Hello all, I am returning to Pov-Ray after finding a lot of my old Pov-ray files
> >> on a CD.
> >
> > :-)
> >
> >
> >> I've downloaded the newest one to try on my Windows 10 PC.
> >> I have been looking through the web site and a lot of things have changed.
> >> I notice in the "Hall of Fame", all the videos from the monthly competition are
> >> no longer there. I enjoyed watching them and was looking for to seeing them.
> >> Are they still around somewhere?
> >
> > I cannot remember there being links to videos on the hof (but I am a relative
> > "newbie" :-)), from when (approx) is your memory ?
> >
> >
> > regards, jr.
> >
>
>
> Maybe Macca is referring to the IRTC with "Sill image" and "Animation" ?
> The archive is here : <https://www.irtc.org/>
>
>
>
>
> --
> kurtz le pirate
> compagnie de la banquise


Thank you Kurtz le pirate.

I had been searching using the menu options and could not find it.
Thanks for the link.

Cheers, Macca

[Macca] Re: Returning to POV-Ray

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 21:30:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Macca" <almac45@gmail,com> wrote:
> > Hello all, I am returning to Pov-Ray after finding a lot of my old Pov-ray files
> > on a CD.
>
> :-)
>
>
> > I've downloaded the newest one to try on my Windows 10 PC.
> > I have been looking through the web site and a lot of things have changed.
> > I notice in the "Hall of Fame", all the videos from the monthly competition are
> > no longer there. I enjoyed watching them and was looking for to seeing them.
> > Are they still around somewhere?
>
> I cannot remember there being links to videos on the hof (but I am a relative
> "newbie" :-)), from when (approx) is your memory ?
>
>
> regards, jr.

Hi JC. I'm going back to around 2012.
But someone else has replied telling me where is it.
I had been looking for it in the menu.

Cheers Macca

[Bald Eagle] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 17:45:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> Thanks BE.
Thank _you_, Mike.
It's been great see all of the sketches, development, WIPs, and renders.

> I'll set up a page on my website for this current project 'pump house' and post
> here with any news or updates. I found my original concept sketches and the
> Collada/Lumion files. I'll take some screen grabs of this model and post along
> with my sketches and images I gathered for reference & inspiration. I always
> pull images and sketch* what I can before I get too far into modeling. I built
> the first model in Revit and exported it to Unity and Lumion for animations and
> visuals.

Yes.  I think that "storyboarding" or flowcharting how you go from initial idea
to final render would do much to dispel the "magic" of how such final renders
come into being.

You don't just open up a text editor and start typing out SDL.
(Well, _I_ do a lot of times . . .)
Showing all of the sketches and modelers and conversion utilities, and 3rd party
software that gets used in preparation for a final POV-Ray render, and then
maybe even post-render processing would be a master class in what you do so
well.

> .... I'm also thinking
> about camera path animations and how to break a scene down into manageable
> parts.

Yeah - that's always another layer of challenges which have their own solutions.

- BE

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Returning to POV-Ray

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 15:38:17 GMT

On 24/07/2026 16:19, jr wrote:
> hi,
> 
> "Macca" <almac45@gmail,com> wrote:
>> Hello all, I am returning to Pov-Ray after finding a lot of my old Pov-ray files
>> on a CD.
> 
> :-)
> 
> 
>> I've downloaded the newest one to try on my Windows 10 PC.
>> I have been looking through the web site and a lot of things have changed.
>> I notice in the "Hall of Fame", all the videos from the monthly competition are
>> no longer there. I enjoyed watching them and was looking for to seeing them.
>> Are they still around somewhere?
> 
> I cannot remember there being links to videos on the hof (but I am a relative
> "newbie" :-)), from when (approx) is your memory ?
> 
> 
> regards, jr.
> 


Maybe Macca is referring to the IRTC with "Sill image" and "Animation" ?
The archive is here : <https://www.irtc.org/>




-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[jr] Re: Returning to POV-Ray

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 14:20:00 GMT

hi,

"Macca" <almac45@gmail,com> wrote:
> Hello all, I am returning to Pov-Ray after finding a lot of my old Pov-ray files
> on a CD.

:-)


> I've downloaded the newest one to try on my Windows 10 PC.
> I have been looking through the web site and a lot of things have changed.
> I notice in the "Hall of Fame", all the videos from the monthly competition are
> no longer there. I enjoyed watching them and was looking for to seeing them.
> Are they still around somewhere?

I cannot remember there being links to videos on the hof (but I am a relative
"newbie" :-)), from when (approx) is your memory ?


regards, jr.

[jr] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 14:15:00 GMT

hi,

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> It's been a while ... I hope all is well with everyone.
>
> I took a break from most of my computer/graphic work to 'work the farm', fish
> and relax. Recently thought, I've have had the itch to get back into some POV
> rendering. I just started animating my old 'Nest' scene, which has recently
> become more of a 'test' scene for writing some visualizing tools.
>
> I'm currently working on a few ideas to help speed my POV scene building and
> have started a new web site to post and archive my current work and code. I'm
> working in a 'project tree' directory structure that allows me to jump around to
> various render-able asset libraries (materials, images, color_maps, objects,
> etc.).
> There are also a few utilities I've coded to help the process that I've also
> posted.
>
> new site:   www.miller-raytracer.com

nice site, although my "old eyes" struggled with the contrast, in places.
thanks.


regards, jr.

[jr] Re: pls make a app...

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 14:10:00 GMT

hi,

"" wrote:
> yeah... i know... idk if my laptop having a bug or something. i just tried it
> again but when i move object, it doesn't move. idk if i can solve this (im a
> begineer)

the screenshot showed nothing "going wrong", only warnings.  as mentioned
before, a cut-down version of your scene, or a different, simple scene
illustrating the problem, is needed.

regards, jr.

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 13:40:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> > BE, did you mean post stuff in this .general thread, or somewhere else?
>
> You could do it here, where I think having your skill, creativity, experience,
> and expertise archived would be a fantastic resource for people who really want
> to learn how to achieve more professional looking results in their renders.
>
> Or you could maintain a sort of blog on your site.
>
> Or cross-post everything so that it's in both places.   Because - digital things
> disappear sometimes.
>
> - BE

Thanks BE.
I'll set up a page on my website for this current project 'pump house' and post
here with any news or updates. I found my original concept sketches and the
Collada/Lumion files. I'll take some screen grabs of this model and post along
with my sketches and images I gathered for reference & inspiration. I always
pull images and sketch* what I can before I get too far into modeling. I built
the first model in Revit and exported it to Unity and Lumion for animations and
visuals.

* I usually have a 'final' image or 2 in mind that I'll rough out in pencil, but
my drawing skills are diminishing with age - so more like doodles. :) Now that I
have a few CPU's that can render frames at a decent rate, I'm also thinking
about camera path animations and how to break a scene down into manageable
parts.

Mike

[Macca] Returning to POV-Ray

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 05:50:00 GMT

Hello all, I am returning to Pov-Ray after finding a lot of my old Pov-ray files
on a CD.
I've downloaded the newest one to try on my Windows 10 PC.
I have been looking through the web site and a lot of things have changed.
I notice in the "Hall of Fame", all the videos from the monthly competition are
no longer there. I enjoyed watching them and was looking for to seeing them.
Are they still around somewhere?

[Bald Eagle] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Fri, 24 Jul 2026 02:25:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> BE, did you mean post stuff in this .general thread, or somewhere else?

You could do it here, where I think having your skill, creativity, experience,
and expertise archived would be a fantastic resource for people who really want
to learn how to achieve more professional looking results in their renders.

Or you could maintain a sort of blog on your site.

Or cross-post everything so that it's in both places.   Because - digital things
disappear sometimes.

- BE

[Mike Miller] Re: POV-Ray Origins

Thu, 23 Jul 2026 14:35:00 GMT

David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
> Hi everyone.  David (Kirk) Buck here.  I'm the original author of
> DKBTrace and POV-Ray.
>
> It's now been about 40 years since I wrote DKBTrace.  It seems like
> forever ago, but I can still remember the thrill of generating (very
> slowly) 3D images of scenes I modeled with a text file using software I
> wrote myself.
>
> I check this forum periodically, but mostly I just lurk to be honest and
> check out what people are doing.  I was about 24 years old when I first
> wrote DKBTrace. I'll soon be turning 64 years old and I'm aiming at
> retiring soon.
>
> I've always been interested in spreading the joy of programming and
> using computers in a creative way.  DKBTrace was one of many projects
> I've worked on simply for the joy of coding.  Interestingly, when I
> released DKBTrace, I thought I was done with it and was releasing it to
> allow others to have fun as well.  It seems that the fun has been
> continuing for the past 40 years.
>
> I'm going to commit to checking this newsgroup more frequently for a
> while and responding to posts.  If you have any questions or comments
> I'll try to respond as quickly as I can.
>
> David Buck

Thank you, David, for DKBTrace, POV and your support that follows. It sure
changed my 3D career path in the early 90's. It allowed me to produce art in a
new and fantastic way. I used POV early on to produce renders for Columbus
architects, which eventually lead to becoming a design architect and using 3D
extensively for presenting concepts to my clients. POV remains dear to my heart.

Congrats on turning 64 and retirement! I'll be turning 68 myself - time does
fly. I'm just get back to some new POV work and will try to post more often.
God Bless,
Mike.

[Mike Miller] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Thu, 23 Jul 2026 13:30:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> > I'm currently working on a few ideas to help speed my POV scene building and
> > have started a new web site to post and archive my current work and code. I'm
> > working in a 'project tree' directory structure that allows me to jump around to
> > various render-able asset libraries (materials, images, color_maps, objects,
> > etc.).
> > There are also a few utilities I've coded to help the process that I've also
> > posted.
>
> Hi Mike, and welcome back!
>
> I like the new site, and the visuals are stunning as usual.  :)
>
> I'm sure that you have a vast amount of knowledge about what makes things "look
> good" - from the fundamental geometric aspects of structure and "smoothness", to
> scene composition, lighting, and of course textures, normals, and finishes.
>
> It would be really nice, and educational, if you could just post things here and
> there about what was going through your head at the outset, and the key things
> that you ensured were present to get the desired effects in the render.
>
> "I _could_ have done it this way, but that would take too long, so I ...."
> "I wanted to make this look [wet][powdery][translucent][hard & shiny][soft &
> leathery] ... and so a texture like that requires at the minimum ...."
> "The tentacle needs to look smooth and flowing, without any kinks, so I used a
> [type] spline ..."
> "Since I'm doing this in POV-Ray, I needed to take the structure of the SDL and
> parsing into account.  [This] needed to be parameterized. [That] needed to
> precede [xyz]. And [Sumthin' else] needed to be stored in a [data structure] to
> really make it efficiently useable."
>
> I think that new users would be fascinated and learn a lot, and even long-time
> experienced users who don't have any graphic arts background would find such
> explanations a goldmine of information and inspiration.
>
> Just something to think about - it doesn't need to be formal.  Every little
> tidbit, trick, rule, strategy, and optimization really helps.
>
> Thanks for all that you have done and continue to do!
> I like the new website, and the images are fantastic as always.
> I'm sure the animations are going to be mesmerizing (and creepy ;) ).
>
> - BE

Thanks BE.
I'll be happy to post my 'thought process' as I work though some new renderings.
I finally put 'pencils down' on my 'Nest project'. I have sketches of this from
30 years ago. haha. I'm rendering a 2000 frame drift animation through the
scene...which is taking some time @8 min per fame.

I've just started a new POV scene based on an old 'world' I designed in
Unity and exported for final renderings in Lumion 9. A software I own but is
'almost' impossible to export data out of. The renderings and animations focused
on an old flywheel driven 'pump-house' buried in ruin and over-grown vegetation.
I'll post some sketches of my idea along with some preliminary rendering I did
years ago. My goal on this will be to rebuild the Lumion scene in POV
without using smooth triangles - I miss CSG modeling and like a good challenge.
I do have my original CAD drawings that I'll use as underlays for building the
architectural structures.

BE, did you mean post stuff in this .general thread, or somewhere else?
Thanks!

miller

[Bald Eagle] Re: Hello gang - getting back to it.

Thu, 23 Jul 2026 10:45:00 GMT

"Mike Miller" <mil### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> I'm currently working on a few ideas to help speed my POV scene building and
> have started a new web site to post and archive my current work and code. I'm
> working in a 'project tree' directory structure that allows me to jump around to
> various render-able asset libraries (materials, images, color_maps, objects,
> etc.).
> There are also a few utilities I've coded to help the process that I've also
> posted.

Hi Mike, and welcome back!

I like the new site, and the visuals are stunning as usual.  :)

I'm sure that you have a vast amount of knowledge about what makes things "look
good" - from the fundamental geometric aspects of structure and "smoothness", to
scene composition, lighting, and of course textures, normals, and finishes.

It would be really nice, and educational, if you could just post things here and
there about what was going through your head at the outset, and the key things
that you ensured were present to get the desired effects in the render.

"I _could_ have done it this way, but that would take too long, so I ...."
"I wanted to make this look [wet][powdery][translucent][hard & shiny][soft &
leathery] ... and so a texture like that requires at the minimum ...."
"The tentacle needs to look smooth and flowing, without any kinks, so I used a
[type] spline ..."
"Since I'm doing this in POV-Ray, I needed to take the structure of the SDL and
parsing into account.  [This] needed to be parameterized. [That] needed to
precede [xyz]. And [Sumthin' else] needed to be stored in a [data structure] to
really make it efficiently useable."

I think that new users would be fascinated and learn a lot, and even long-time
experienced users who don't have any graphic arts background would find such
explanations a goldmine of information and inspiration.

Just something to think about - it doesn't need to be formal.  Every little
tidbit, trick, rule, strategy, and optimization really helps.

Thanks for all that you have done and continue to do!
I like the new website, and the images are fantastic as always.
I'm sure the animations are going to be mesmerizing (and creepy ;) ).

- BE

[Bald Eagle] Re: pls make a app...

Thu, 23 Jul 2026 10:10:00 GMT

wrote:
> > - "crashes" should, of course, not happen.  you can use, for instance, the
> > 'all_file' option[*] to "record" POV-Ray's text output, including error message.
> >  it would be helpful if you could post additional information on the bug (?),
> yeah... i know... idk if my laptop having a bug or something. i just tried it
> again but when i move object, it doesn't move. idk if i can solve this (im a
> begineer)

#version needs to come first before anything else. (except comments)
It's also useful to define your scene gamma.

#version 3.8;
global_settings {assumed_gamma 1.0}

But in the absence of any code, that's all I got.

- BE

[Bald Eagle] Re: Animation with sine waves?

Thu, 23 Jul 2026 10:10:00 GMT

"ingo" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> "Sir" <fra### [at] jaliscoedumx> wrote:
>
> > #declare actangle = maxangle * sin( clock * 4 ) * cos( clock * 4 );
> > [...]
> >     rotate <0,0,clock*actangle>
>
> Didn't analyse the full thing but noticed the clock as well in actangle as in
> rotate again. So you animate the animation, removing the clock from rotate might
> do the trick?
>
> ingo

Also, why is sin getting multiplied by cos?
I would just use cos to oscillate between 1 and -1.

- BE

[] Re: pls make a app...

Thu, 23 Jul 2026 06:05:00 GMT

> - "crashes" should, of course, not happen.  you can use, for instance, the
> 'all_file' option[*] to "record" POV-Ray's text output, including error message.
>  it would be helpful if you could post additional information on the bug (?),
yeah... i know... idk if my laptop having a bug or something. i just tried it
again but when i move object, it doesn't move. idk if i can solve this (im a
begineer)

[ingo] Re: Animation with sine waves?

Thu, 23 Jul 2026 05:35:00 GMT

"Sir" <fra### [at] jaliscoedumx> wrote:

> #declare actangle = maxangle * sin( clock * 4 ) * cos( clock * 4 );
> [...]
>     rotate <0,0,clock*actangle>

Didn't analyse the full thing but noticed the clock as well in actangle as in
rotate again. So you animate the animation, removing the clock from rotate might
do the trick?

ingo

[Sir] Animation with sine waves?

Thu, 23 Jul 2026 04:35:00 GMT

Hello POV-Ray Users!

So, i was rendering an animation of a metronome whose pendulum swings back and
forth between a specific angle and its negative.

Here's how I did it:

#declare maxangle = 35;
#declare actangle = maxangle * sin( clock * 4 ) * cos( clock * 4 );

polygon {
5,
<-.06,0>, <-.06,2.6>, <.06,2.6>, <.06,0>, <-.06,0>
         texture{ Chrome_Metal
                  // normal { bumps 0.5 scale 0.05 }
                  // finish { phong 1 }
                } // end of texture ---------------------------
    translate <0,0,0>
    rotate <0,0,clock*actangle>
    translate <0,.3,-.8>

   }
}
object { metronome
scale .5 }

This is not the complete scene, just the pendulum, which is a polygon that
rotates (maxangle value).

(I'm not an experienced user, and I don't know much about trigonometry and stuff
like that, srry.)

However, the pendulum doesn't swing back and forth constantly (as it should);
instead, it moves a very short distance at the beginning of the animation, and
as the animation progresses, the distance it travels increases until it exceeds
the angle that had been set (or so I think) as the maximum.

If anyone knows what's going on and how to fix it, I would really appreciate
it if you could share your knowledge with me.

Thanks!

(sorry if my english is bad, most of this post was translated)

- S I R ?

[Mike Miller] Re: Popularization of the POV-Ray program on Tik...

Wed, 22 Jul 2026 23:55:00 GMT

"Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > The idea is simple: create content like memes, tutorials, videos, etc. Here's an
> > example:
>
> The first problem is adapting it to tiktok format: audio track needs to be
>
> EITHER:
> paired your renders with trending synthwave, chillwave, or retro-electronic
> music to match the aesthetic.
>
> OR:
> original to avoid being censored. So what should a POV soundtrack be like? I
> think sound samples from an on-topic talking podcast or tutorial, one that the
> author would allow us to use could make a good backdrop... (e.g. SMCA: Stephen
> Mc Avoy, with your awesome scottish accent, would you allow such derivative use
> of your works?)
>
> Then there is the content:
>
> *WIP Videos: Users love seeing how things are made. So a time-lapse of a POV-Ray
> scene compiling, or a "code vs. render" split screen, may perform very well.
>
> *Satisfying Loops: POV-Ray is great for creating perfect, mathematically precise
>
> watch.
>
> * generally, using the below tags could federate and ease the virality:
>
> #POVRay
> #RetroCGI
> #3DRender
> #OldSchoolCGI
> #FractalArt
> #GenerativeArt
>
> * Join Broader Communities: Post your work in the
> #3DArtists
> #DigitalArt
>
> * Is there any challenge worth contributing to? These might be a fit:
>
> #RetroCGIChallenge
> #LowPolyArt
> #FractalFriday
>
> * When using Nostalgia & "Retro-Future" Aesthetic:
> #Y2K
> #AnalogHorror"
> #RetroCGI

"POV-Ray is great for creating perfect, mathematically precise"
Yes... you had me at Nostalgia :)
At times ....at least for me, POV is the only thing in this world that makes
sense.

[Mike Miller] Hello gang - getting back to it.

Wed, 22 Jul 2026 21:45:00 GMT

It's been a while ... I hope all is well with everyone.

I took a break from most of my computer/graphic work to 'work the farm', fish
and relax. Recently thought, I've have had the itch to get back into some POV
rendering. I just started animating my old 'Nest' scene, which has recently
become more of a 'test' scene for writing some visualizing tools.

I'm currently working on a few ideas to help speed my POV scene building and
have started a new web site to post and archive my current work and code. I'm
working in a 'project tree' directory structure that allows me to jump around to
various render-able asset libraries (materials, images, color_maps, objects,
etc.).
There are also a few utilities I've coded to help the process that I've also
posted.

new site:   www.miller-raytracer.com
new email   mil### [at] gmailcom

I have an old site, that I don't update, that has some very early sketches and
POV stuff.
old site:  www.miller-headspin.com

I'm hoping to be check in more often. God bless
Mike Miller

[jr] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-)

Wed, 22 Jul 2026 09:55:00 GMT

hi,

"Lutz" <lut### [at] stmuccom> wrote:
> It's not so much this, since development is development and porting UI is mostly
> a pretty "easy" process, it is just a LOT of work.
>
> But, yeah, we would all like it if it was easy to make a cross platform
> modelling app.
>
> Anyway, we might see some activity to evaluate just how long it would take.

thanks for that last.  fwiw, I do know several regulars use C++, and perhaps we
will see, as per the saying, "many hands make light work".


regards, jr.

[Lutz] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-)

Mon, 20 Jul 2026 22:35:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> what if, say, a Linux developer and the author of a Windows s/ware got together

It's not so much this, since development is development and porting UI is mostly
a pretty "easy" process, it is just a LOT of work.

But, yeah, we would all like it if it was easy to make a cross platform
modelling app.

Anyway, we might see some activity to evaluate just how long it would take.

- Lutz

[Lutz] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-)

Mon, 20 Jul 2026 22:30:00 GMT

Having said that…

I do have some items on the roadmap already that will make it easier to port,
like transitioning all Registry based storage to local json settings files. And
decoupling some other things to have a common core and a UI layer.

Investigation results and plans are being committed to the repo in the docs
folder.

-Lutz

[jr] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-)

Mon, 20 Jul 2026 20:15:00 GMT

hi,

antoine <map### [at] orangefr> wrote:

> >> I'm curious, when you say there is no more 3rd party libraries in the
> >> code, do you mean the gui of this new moray only uses the windows gui
> >> interface or is it cross platform (like unix for example) ? For example,
> >> the well known libraries 'wxWidgets' and 'Qt' are both cross platform
> >> but they are considered as 3rd party libraries... Can you provide more
> >> explanations about the dependencies (OS compatibility, etc...) of the
> >> new Moray ?
> > Moray is Windows only. ...
> > inside Moray, uses no 3rd party commercial libraries (there is still zlib,
> > pnglib) that runs fine on modern Win10 and Win11 systems. It still has strong
> > dependencies on the Microsoft MFC libraries, so cross platform is not on the
> > table.
> Ok, thank you for your explanations Lutz ;-) . As a Linux developer most
> of the time (C++ and POVRay mainly), I still have hope of running Moray
> on Ubuntu with Wine for example.

though ignorant of both C++ and the Moray code base, I cannot help but think
what if, say, a Linux developer and the author of a Windows s/ware got together
with view of translating ("migrating") the UI to a suitably licensed
cross-platform widget set ?  we'd all stand to gain :-).


regards, jr.

[Chris Cason] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-)

Mon, 20 Jul 2026 19:03:16 GMT

On 20/07/2026 05:22, Lutz wrote:
> Moray is Windows only. When we donated it to the POV-Team it was using some 3rd
> party commercial UI libraries that prevented the POV-Team from releasing it
> under their license. Some work was done to replace it, but not released. In the
> meantime we needed it to also be x64. That work was started but never completed.
> And finally, Moray did not support the new way POV-Ray supports GUI integration
> (as a VFE server), nor was it compatible with V3.8. I fixed all those issues. So
> the result is a Windows x64 build that is compatible with POV-Ray 3.8 (though it
> does not support new features that were added post V3.5 yet), renders previews
> inside Moray, uses no 3rd party commercial libraries (there is still zlib,
> pnglib) that runs fine on modern Win10 and Win11 systems. It still has strong
> dependencies on the Microsoft MFC libraries, so cross platform is not on the
> table.

I agree with Lutz here. A port is not trivial as there are many dependencies on how
MFC does things. In particular, it has a unique format for defining dialogs, and each
and every dialog in Moray would need to be re-coded into whatever format the target
library needs (e.g. QT). And that's just the start.

Once we release the source anyone who is interested in doing a port is welcome to fork
it and have a stab. We'd be quite happy to see someone make a cross-platform version.

-- Chris

[Bald Eagle] Re: Antikythera mechanism

Mon, 20 Jul 2026 11:35:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> Greetings !
> Interesting device for modelling, don't you think so ?

I absolutely think so.  :)

https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3Cweb.5be049da3bc8830d765e06870%40news.povray.org%3E/

I have watched all of the documentaries, and every ClickSpring video.

The pin-and-slot assembly is certainly one of the most interesting and
challenging features.

- BW

[yesbird] Antikythera mechanism

Mon, 20 Jul 2026 06:25:23 GMT

Greetings !
Interesting device for modelling, don't you think so ?

https://www.euronews.com/culture/2026/07/20/antikythera-mechanism-greek-computer-that-predicted-eclipses-2000-years-ago
-- 
YB

[antoine] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-)

Mon, 20 Jul 2026 05:50:33 GMT

Le 19/07/2026 Ã  21:22, Lutz a Ã©critÂ :
> 
>> Hello Lutz,
>> I'm curious, when you say there is no more 3rd party libraries in the
>> code, do you mean the gui of this new moray only uses the windows gui
>> interface or is it cross platform (like unix for example) ? For example,
>> the well known libraries 'wxWidgets' and 'Qt' are both cross platform
>> but they are considered as 3rd party libraries... Can you provide more
>> explanations about the dependencies (OS compatibility, etc...) of the
>> new Moray ?
>> Regards,
>> Antoine.
> 
> Moray is Windows only. When we donated it to the POV-Team it was using some 3rd
> party commercial UI libraries that prevented the POV-Team from releasing it
> under their license. Some work was done to replace it, but not released. In the
> meantime we needed it to also be x64. That work was started but never completed.
> And finally, Moray did not support the new way POV-Ray supports GUI integration
> (as a VFE server), nor was it compatible with V3.8. I fixed all those issues. So
> the result is a Windows x64 build that is compatible with POV-Ray 3.8 (though it
> does not support new features that were added post V3.5 yet), renders previews
> inside Moray, uses no 3rd party commercial libraries (there is still zlib,
> pnglib) that runs fine on modern Win10 and Win11 systems. It still has strong
> dependencies on the Microsoft MFC libraries, so cross platform is not on the
> table.
> 
> Lutz
> 
Anyway keep up the good work !
Regards,
Antoine.

[antoine] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-)

Mon, 20 Jul 2026 05:47:23 GMT

Le 19/07/2026 Ã  21:22, Lutz a Ã©critÂ :
> 
>> Hello Lutz,
>> I'm curious, when you say there is no more 3rd party libraries in the
>> code, do you mean the gui of this new moray only uses the windows gui
>> interface or is it cross platform (like unix for example) ? For example,
>> the well known libraries 'wxWidgets' and 'Qt' are both cross platform
>> but they are considered as 3rd party libraries... Can you provide more
>> explanations about the dependencies (OS compatibility, etc...) of the
>> new Moray ?
>> Regards,
>> Antoine.
> 
> Moray is Windows only. When we donated it to the POV-Team it was using some 3rd
> party commercial UI libraries that prevented the POV-Team from releasing it
> under their license. Some work was done to replace it, but not released. In the
> meantime we needed it to also be x64. That work was started but never completed.
> And finally, Moray did not support the new way POV-Ray supports GUI integration
> (as a VFE server), nor was it compatible with V3.8. I fixed all those issues. So
> the result is a Windows x64 build that is compatible with POV-Ray 3.8 (though it
> does not support new features that were added post V3.5 yet), renders previews
> inside Moray, uses no 3rd party commercial libraries (there is still zlib,
> pnglib) that runs fine on modern Win10 and Win11 systems. It still has strong
> dependencies on the Microsoft MFC libraries, so cross platform is not on the
> table.
> 
> Lutz
> 
Ok, thank you for your explanations Lutz ;-) . As a Linux developer most 
of the time (C++ and POVRay mainly), I still have hope of running Moray 
on Ubuntu with Wine for example.
Regards,
Antoine.

[Paolo Gibellini] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-)

Sun, 19 Jul 2026 23:26:19 GMT

Great news, Lutz!
Congratulations for your tenacity.

Paolo


Il 17/07/2026 09:00, Lutz ha scritto:
> Hello there POV-Ray and Moray users!
> 
> It's been a few decades, lol. Glad to see there are still some of you around.
> 
> I had some AI tokens at my disposal and decided to put Claude Code to work and
> get Moray running on x64 (based on Federicos abandoned branch) and then got it
> to support POV-Ray 3.8, including integrated previews with a dedicated VFE-based
> server.
> 
> So I just pushed that work to the master branch in the BitBucket repo. Not sure
> who has access to that, but if there is sufficient interest we can probably make
> a packaged release as well. There are no more 3rd party libraries in the code.
> 
> Anyway, some of the code in this modeller is now over 30 years old! I started in
> the early 90's on it... ahhh, the memories.
> 
> I might check in every now and again and implement some things. The POV-Ray 3.8
> support is currently strictly limited to VFE calling and making sure the INIs
> are compatible. No new features are supported. Also, it might still have some
> bugs in it and I will fix the ones I haven't run into during this port, if they
> are reported.
> 
> Much love to you all!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> - Lutz
> 
>

[Lutz] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-)

Sun, 19 Jul 2026 19:25:00 GMT

> Hello Lutz,
> I'm curious, when you say there is no more 3rd party libraries in the
> code, do you mean the gui of this new moray only uses the windows gui
> interface or is it cross platform (like unix for example) ? For example,
> the well known libraries 'wxWidgets' and 'Qt' are both cross platform
> but they are considered as 3rd party libraries... Can you provide more
> explanations about the dependencies (OS compatibility, etc...) of the
> new Moray ?
> Regards,
> Antoine.

Moray is Windows only. When we donated it to the POV-Team it was using some 3rd
party commercial UI libraries that prevented the POV-Team from releasing it
under their license. Some work was done to replace it, but not released. In the
meantime we needed it to also be x64. That work was started but never completed.
And finally, Moray did not support the new way POV-Ray supports GUI integration
(as a VFE server), nor was it compatible with V3.8. I fixed all those issues. So
the result is a Windows x64 build that is compatible with POV-Ray 3.8 (though it
does not support new features that were added post V3.5 yet), renders previews
inside Moray, uses no 3rd party commercial libraries (there is still zlib,
pnglib) that runs fine on modern Win10 and Win11 systems. It still has strong
dependencies on the Microsoft MFC libraries, so cross platform is not on the
table.

Lutz

[ingo] looking for a Ron Parker macro or scene

Sun, 19 Jul 2026 19:02:49 GMT

I've been trying to dig up an old macro/scene by Ron Parker. It's not on 
the server anymore, it's not in 
https://usenetarchives.com/groups.php?c=povray

It is a macro/scene for creating a arabeske/arabic like tiling 
pattern.The beauty was that it did work in 3D, not just on a 2D plane. 
By adding a slight rotation to it the pattern kept changeing, while 
still being similar.

Does it ring a bell? Anyone?

Sadly I lost my complete newsgroup archive.

Cheers,

Ingo

[antoine] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-)

Sun, 19 Jul 2026 16:16:20 GMT

Le 17/07/2026 Ã  09:00, Lutz a Ã©critÂ :
> Hello there POV-Ray and Moray users!
> 
> It's been a few decades, lol. Glad to see there are still some of you around.
> 
> I had some AI tokens at my disposal and decided to put Claude Code to work and
> get Moray running on x64 (based on Federicos abandoned branch) and then got it
> to support POV-Ray 3.8, including integrated previews with a dedicated VFE-based
> server.
> 
> So I just pushed that work to the master branch in the BitBucket repo. Not sure
> who has access to that, but if there is sufficient interest we can probably make
> a packaged release as well. There are no more 3rd party libraries in the code.
> 
> Anyway, some of the code in this modeller is now over 30 years old! I started in
> the early 90's on it... ahhh, the memories.
> 
> I might check in every now and again and implement some things. The POV-Ray 3.8
> support is currently strictly limited to VFE calling and making sure the INIs
> are compatible. No new features are supported. Also, it might still have some
> bugs in it and I will fix the ones I haven't run into during this port, if they
> are reported.
> 
> Much love to you all!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> - Lutz
> 
> 
Le 17/07/2026 Ã  09:00, Lutz a Ã©crit :
 > Hello there POV-Ray and Moray users!
 >
Hello Lutz,
I'm curious, when you say there is no more 3rd party libraries in the 
code, do you mean the gui of this new moray only uses the windows gui 
interface or is it cross platform (like unix for example) ? For example, 
the well known libraries 'wxWidgets' and 'Qt' are both cross platform 
but they are considered as 3rd party libraries... Can you provide more 
explanations about the dependencies (OS compatibility, etc...) of the 
new Moray ?
Regards,
Antoine.

[Bald Eagle] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-)

Sat, 18 Jul 2026 11:20:00 GMT

"Lutz" <lut### [at] stmuccom> wrote:

> So I just pushed that work to the master branch in the BitBucket repo. Not sure
> who has access to that, but if there is sufficient interest we can probably make
> a packaged release as well. There are no more 3rd party libraries in the code.

> - Lutz

:O   WHOA!
This is indeed a very welcome surprise!

Interested in the BitBucket repo as well as a packaged release.

- BE

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Damn, I can't add an object!

Sat, 18 Jul 2026 09:34:58 GMT

On 18/07/2026 08:45, Cossack wrote:
> I compiled a project on termux x11 but it won't add the object >:[ .
> Anyone know how to fix this?

I'm no expert, but this makes me think there might be one or more 
missing libraries such as SDL, X11-Dev ?


-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Cossack ] Damn, I can't add an object!

Sat, 18 Jul 2026 06:50:00 GMT

I compiled a project on termux x11 but it won't add the object >:[ .
Anyone know how to fix this?

[kurtz le pirate] My new desktop wallpaper

Fri, 17 Jul 2026 16:37:07 GMT

Hello,


Here, the small version (800x450 - 146Ko) of my new wallpapar made today.



Stats for original image @ 3200x1800 :

* Parse Time: 0 hours  0 minutes 27 seconds (27.891 seconds)
                using 1 thread(s) with 27.849 CPU-seconds total
* Radiosity Time: 0 hours  0 minutes 13 seconds (13.160 seconds)
               using 6 thread(s) with 72.644 CPU-seconds total
* Trace Time:0 hours  0 minutes 36 seconds (36.322 seconds)
              using 6 thread(s) with 209.941 CPU-seconds total
* Render Options
   Antialiasing On, (Method 3, Threshold 0.000, Depth 3, Jitter 1.00, 
Gamma 2.50)


I think it's pretty fast for an old Core i5 / 6 cores @ 3 GHz


Of course, I reused a lot of the work I had done on polyhedra 
<https://louisbel.pages-perso.free.fr/scenes/scene030.shtml> and the 3D 
-models of polyhedron from <https://dmccooey.com/polyhedra/index.html>.





-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Chris Cason] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-)

Fri, 17 Jul 2026 13:25:05 GMT

G'day Lutz, good to see you again :)

I have access and have been seeing the commits (I get an email for each) and was quite
pleased to see the progress. I also got your email and am about to reply to it.

When we're ready to go with 3.8 beta 3 I'd like to release both POV-Ray and a Moray
built with the same codebase simultaneously. I think that will make people happy :)

-- Chris

[ingo] Re: Moray V3.6 is alive :-)

Fri, 17 Jul 2026 07:25:00 GMT

"Lutz" <lut### [at] stmuccom> wrote:
> Hello there POV-Ray and Moray users!

..... flabbergasted ..... speechless .....

Cheers!!!!!!! :)

ingo

[Lutz] Moray V3.6 is alive :-)

Fri, 17 Jul 2026 07:05:00 GMT

Hello there POV-Ray and Moray users!

It's been a few decades, lol. Glad to see there are still some of you around.

I had some AI tokens at my disposal and decided to put Claude Code to work and
get Moray running on x64 (based on Federicos abandoned branch) and then got it
to support POV-Ray 3.8, including integrated previews with a dedicated VFE-based
server.

So I just pushed that work to the master branch in the BitBucket repo. Not sure
who has access to that, but if there is sufficient interest we can probably make
a packaged release as well. There are no more 3rd party libraries in the code.

Anyway, some of the code in this modeller is now over 30 years old! I started in
the early 90's on it... ahhh, the memories.

I might check in every now and again and implement some things. The POV-Ray 3.8
support is currently strictly limited to VFE calling and making sure the INIs
are compatible. No new features are supported. Also, it might still have some
bugs in it and I will fix the ones I haven't run into during this port, if they
are reported.

Much love to you all!

Cheers,

- Lutz

[ingo] Re: Include path

Wed, 15 Jul 2026 10:56:11 GMT

On 2026-07-14 13:37, Maetes wrote:
> Is there a way 
povosc needs waveheader
test is a subdir of current dir

#include "povosc.inc"
#include "test/waveheader.inc"

this works

#include "povosc.inc"
#include "./test/waveheader.inc"

this also

POV-Ray 3.8 on Win11

ingo

[Bald Eagle] Re: Include path

Wed, 15 Jul 2026 10:35:00 GMT

You can get the file name of the current scene file, but I don't think the whole
path.

[Maetes] Re: Include path

Wed, 15 Jul 2026 10:20:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> how about, for every scene file, you add a corresponding .ini file ?  there, not
> only can you provide explicit paths (via 'library_path'), but also "fix" other
> stuff you'd usually provide on the command-line, like antialias etc.  "added
> bonus" is being able to simply write:
>   $ povray myscene.ini
> and done ;-).

Is that easier than defining a path?
I don't think so.
It would just shift the problem to an (additional) ini file.

Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
> When POV-Ray looks for include files, it start in the same folder as the
> current scene file, then, it search in the include folder.
> When searching for an include from inside another include file, it
> search in the folder where the first include is located.

The last sentence is my problem. What I would need would be something like a
Povray variable that says where the currently included script is. Then I could
use it to load more scripts of this "sub-include".

But maybe I'm not describing my problem well enough.
I'll do it with manual path information first, maybe then I'll get a hint on how
to do it more elegantly.

Thank you for the tips.

ma

[Maetes] Re: Povray-Logo

Wed, 15 Jul 2026 10:10:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
>
https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3Cweb.685c6563ffd559931f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org%3E/?tto

> p=447960&toff=50

Thanks for that.

I searched for it for a long time, even by AI, found nothing.


Gr
Ma

[Bald Eagle] Re: Povray-Logo

Wed, 15 Jul 2026 01:30:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:

> No idea what the link is.

https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3Cweb.685c6563ffd559931f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org%3E/?tto
p=447960&toff=50

[Bald Eagle] Re: Povray-Logo

Wed, 15 Jul 2026 01:25:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> I downloaded the picture here from the forum.
>
> Does anyone know who created this and can give name + news link?
>
> I wanted to use it on my blog and provide appropriate information there.
>
> If the creator has something against it, please contact me, then I'll look for
> something else.
>
> Greetings Ma

That's mine.
Bill "Bald Eagle" Walker

No idea what the link is.  Can't find the file either - might be on my other
computer.

Go ahead and use it.

- BE

[Alain Martel] Re: Include path

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 20:56:07 GMT

Le 2026-07-14 Ã  07:37, Maetes a Ã©critÂ :
> Is there a way to find out in an included script where it is relative to the
> executed script?
> 
> Problem: I include a script that needs to include more scripts, textures in
> separate files, or images. Unfortunately, it is the case that the path of the
> executed script applies in the included script.
> 
> #include "textures.inc"
> 
> therefore does not lead to success there.
> 
> At the moment I do this by setting a path before the first include.
> 
> #declare Coupe_Path = ".. /base/cars/coupe/";
> 
> I then use this path with Concat, and thus include further scripts and images.
> 
> Is there a better method?
> 
> I think there is the possibility to give general include_path, but I don't want
> to use it. That would be too many and the folder structure changes often.
> 
> Ma
> 
> 
> 

When POV-Ray looks for include files, it start in the same folder as the 
current scene file, then, it search in the include folder.
When searching for an include from inside another include file, it 
search in the folder where the first include is located.

So, create a folder for your scene.
Place any custom include in that same folder.
Avoid placing your custom includes in the includes folder.
Benefits : Your project is easier to manage. If you want to publish your 
scene, you can simply zip the whole folder and get all of the required 
files.

[jr] Re: Include path

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 17:50:00 GMT

hi,

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> > dir/myIncludeChaos holds the actual files. dir/myWorkingStructure is
> > what you see. In your editor you go to /house and open the link
> > include1.ini. Your editor actually opens the include1.pov from the chaos
> > directory.
> That's too complicated for me.
>
> I also want to publish the scripts. Then everyone who wants to use them would
> have to deal with sym-links.

how about, for every scene file, you add a corresponding .ini file ?  there, not
only can you provide explicit paths (via 'library_path'), but also "fix" other
stuff you'd usually provide on the command-line, like antialias etc.  "added
bonus" is being able to simply write:
  $ povray myscene.ini
and done ;-).

regards, jr.

[Maetes] Re: U.S. Virgin Islands 4/20 flag

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 16:35:00 GMT

Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> Happy 4/20!
>
> The flag is all procedural.  The drug-free edition is at
>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_States_Virgin_Islands

I am interested in the code for the creation of the flagpole and especially the
flag. Creating this myself will certainly cost me several hours.

Gr
Ma

[Maetes] Re: Include path

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 13:50:00 GMT

ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> dir/myIncludeChaos holds the actual files. dir/myWorkingStructure is
> what you see. In your editor you go to /house and open the link
> include1.ini. Your editor actually opens the include1.pov from the chaos
> directory.
>

That's too complicated for me.

I also want to publish the scripts. Then everyone who wants to use them would
have to deal with sym-links.

Your solution may be elegant, but I don't like it.
It would be easier to set a path, I think.

m

[ingo] Re: Include path

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 13:27:41 GMT

On 2026-07-14 14:16, Maetes wrote:

Lets try and visualize:

dir/myIncludeChaos
   object1.pov
   object2.pov
   object3.pov
   include1.inc
   include2.inc


dir/myWorkingStructure
   subdir/car
     link to object1.pov
     link to include2.ini

   subdir/house
     link to include1.ini

     subsubdir/furniture
       link to object2.pov
       link to object2.pov
       link to include2.ini

dir/myIncludeChaos holds the actual files. dir/myWorkingStructure is 
what you see. In your editor you go to /house and open the link 
include1.ini. Your editor actually opens the include1.pov from the chaos 
directory.


https://www.howtogeek.com/16226/complete-guide-to-symbolic-links-symlinks-on-windows-or-linux/


ingo

> Unless I didn't understand your explanation correctly, my English is not the
> best (I use translation tool)
> 
> m
> 
>

[Maetes] Re: Include path

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 12:20:00 GMT

"ingo" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

> For working with the files, a single directory that holds them all and a
> directory structure with soft/sim links from where you edit the files.
>
> When including in POV-Ray you point to the single dir that holds them all. And
> answering your other question, include one top_level file that includes the
> rest. That then works as there is only one directory with the actual files.
>
> Would that work for you?


I don't think so.

I tinker with small worlds with countless objects. All of which are under
construction, so most of them are housed in their own folders.

If I put them all together in one folder, it becomes a huge chaos.

Unless I didn't understand your explanation correctly, my English is not the
best (I use translation tool)

m

[Maetes] Re: Cutty Sark

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 12:15:00 GMT

I don't want to push ...
but it's about time for an update, isn't it?

(waiting-smiley)

ma

[ingo] Re: Include path

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 12:10:00 GMT

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>
> Is there a better method?
>
> I think there is the possibility to give general include_path, but I don't want
> to use it. That would be too many and the folder structure changes often.
>

For working with the files, a single directory that holds them all and a
directory structure with soft/sim links from where you edit the files.

When including in POV-Ray you point to the single dir that holds them all. And
answering your other question, include one top_level file that includes the
rest. That then works as there is only one directory with the actual files.

Would that work for you?

ingo

[Maetes] Re: auto-include?

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 12:10:00 GMT

Thanks for the hints, jr, didn't know this options.

but thats to complicated.
The more includes, the more complicated.

ma

[Maetes] Povray-Logo

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 12:05:00 GMT

I downloaded the picture here from the forum.

Does anyone know who created this and can give name + news link?

I wanted to use it on my blog and provide appropriate information there.

If the creator has something against it, please contact me, then I'll look for
something else.

Greetings Ma

[jr] Re: auto-include?

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 12:00:00 GMT

hi,

addressing both posts.

"Maetes" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

> Is there a way to find out in an included script where it is relative to the
> executed script?
> ...
> At the moment I do this by setting a path before the first include.
> #declare Coupe_Path = ".. /base/cars/coupe/";
> I then use this path with Concat, and thus include further scripts and images.
> Is there a better method?

not really I think, but you could (perhaps) supply one or more paths via a CLI
declare, ie:
  $ povray ... declare=library_path=/some/path/

you'll need to "fuss" with quoting the construct for most shells, easier to use
an ini file, imo.

> Imagine I had a model that is split into several files for a better overview.
> ...
> If there should be an auto-include, the car_base.inc would have to be given a
> path where it can find the rest of the files - relative to the script executed.

there sort-of is, see 'include_header',
<https://wiki.povray.org/content/Reference:Scene_Parsing_Options#Include_File_Name>.

regards, jr.

[Maetes] auto-include?

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 11:45:00 GMT

Imagine I had a model that is split into several files for a better overview.

car_base.inc
car_textures.inc
car_tyres.inc
.....

Would you include them all individually in your executing script?
Or would you expect all includes to be done automatically in e.g. car_base.inc?

I have quite a few models here that I would like to publish, but I'm not sure
about the handling.

If there should be an auto-include, the car_base.inc would have to be given a
path where it can find the rest of the files - relative to the script executed.

ma

[Maetes] Include path

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 11:40:00 GMT

Is there a way to find out in an included script where it is relative to the
executed script?

Problem: I include a script that needs to include more scripts, textures in
separate files, or images. Unfortunately, it is the case that the path of the
executed script applies in the included script.

#include "textures.inc"

therefore does not lead to success there.

At the moment I do this by setting a path before the first include.

#declare Coupe_Path = ".. /base/cars/coupe/";

I then use this path with Concat, and thus include further scripts and images.

Is there a better method?

I think there is the possibility to give general include_path, but I don't want
to use it. That would be too many and the folder structure changes often.

Ma

[Cossack ] Re: pls make a app...

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 05:25:00 GMT

wrote:
> hello POV-ray users... im trying to make the best POV-ray scene ever but it
> looks like trash... soo... can somebody pls make a app for pc (windows) that
> show how to make povray scene much better? and also can somebody create an
> software that works like blender (a 3D software that can create scenes with
> preview and no coding) that shows the preview every 100 milisecond on 320x240
> but they after render the scene (not the full scene) pls?

So there are various POVRay modelers and POSRay that could help with this, and
Blender also supports POV Ray, so probably all the issues are resolved?

[Alessio Sangalli] NEON optimizations

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 00:45:36 GMT

Hello I noticed that SIMD optimization for for x86 only so I introduced 
it for NEON also:

1. NEON-accelerated noise (AArch64): a hand-written ARM NEON kernel for 
the core Perlin Noise/DNoise functions, plugged into the runtime noise 
dispatch. ~6â€“13% faster on noise-heavy scenes, output
pixel-identical.

2. SIMD BVH traversal (POV_BVH=bvh4): a contiguous SoA "BVH4" node 
layout with a branchless 4-wide NEON ray-box slab test, applied to both 
the scene-level bounding hierarchy and the per-mesh BVHs â€” scene
trees 
keep the best-first priority queue, mesh trees use a front-to-back 
stack. ~1.9Ã— on traversal-bound rendering
(1.1â€“1.7Ã— on typical GI/mesh 
scenes, no change on non-BVH-bound ones), output pixel-identical.

Anybody cares for these? Main use case is Apple Silicon computers

[Bald Eagle] Re: pls make a app...

Tue, 14 Jul 2026 00:30:00 GMT

Dude.  Just answer the guy's question.























;)  :P

[jr] Re: pls make a app...

Mon, 13 Jul 2026 14:25:00 GMT

hi,

"" wrote:
> > perhaps the real time render option ('+rtr') will help ?
> well i tried but sometimes it just crashes my app

</sigh>..  try (please) to put yourself in my / the reader's "shoes".  you wrote
you have a scene you'd like to improve, and that (on a Windows box, I assume ?)
the RTR "sometimes" crashes the app.  you will have to admit that "vague" is an
understatement ;-).

if you want to go without "handle", no problem, but zero information ?!

if you are interested in working on your scene to make it better I suggest:

- give us a (cut-down) version of the scene code and a sentence or two
explaining what you're aiming for, and what problem(s) you see.

- "crashes" should, of course, not happen.  you can use, for instance, the
'all_file' option[*] to "record" POV-Ray's text output, including error message.
 it would be helpful if you could post additional information on the bug (?),
tia.

[*]
<wiki.povray.org/content/Reference:Text_Output_Options#Directing_Text_Streams_to_Files>

regards, jr.

[] Re: pls make a app...

Mon, 13 Jul 2026 10:40:00 GMT

> perhaps the real time render option ('+rtr') will help ?
>
>
> regards, jr.

well i tried but sometimes it just crashes my app

[Alain Martel] Re: pls make a app...

Sat, 11 Jul 2026 14:55:20 GMT

Le 2026-07-10 Ã  16:01,  a Ã©critÂ :
> hello POV-ray users... im trying to make the best POV-ray scene ever but it
> looks like trash... soo... can somebody pls make a app for pc (windows) that
> show how to make povray scene much better? and also can somebody create an
> software that works like blender (a 3D software that can create scenes with
> preview and no coding) that shows the preview every 100 milisecond on 320x240
> but they after render the scene (not the full scene) pls?
> 
> 

A good lighting is essential. Place your main lights in realistic 
places. Use some fill lights. Low intensity lights with the shadowless 
attribute.
Use area_light instead of regular lights. Use the adaptive sampling. 
Start with adaptive 0. This start using the corner of the area_light and 
subdivide it as needed. ONLY use adaptive 1 or adaptive 2 if there are 
artifacts.
A light using
area_light 2*x 2*z 65 65 adaptive 0
renders faster than one using
area_light 2*x 2*z 4 4 jitter

Next, texture and finish. If you have reflective surfaces, most of the 
time, you want fresnel reflection, unless the surface is a metal. Don't 
forget to give an IOR to the object. Usual IOR range is about 1.3 to 2.1.
Metallic textures should have an ambient value of zero.

[Bald Eagle] Re: pls make a app...

Sat, 11 Jul 2026 11:00:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> > im trying to make the best POV-ray scene ever but it
> > looks like trash... soo... can somebody pls make a app for pc (windows) that
> > show how to make povray scene much better?
>
> if you post the scene, or a cut-down version of it, and tell how you rendered
> it, that is, which options etc, I'm sure people will try to help.

The biggest things that are going to affect what your scene looks like are
textures, and lighting.  You can have amazing geometry, but without those, the
whole scene will look flat, fake, and "like trash".

Consider how your scene is "composed" in terms of how photographers
painstakingly set up a scene.
Apply textures with normals and finishes.  You'd be surprised just how far that
will go.
Use good lighting.  Warp wrote an article about 3-point lighting, highlights and
shadows will do much to create a much richer sense of depth, complexity, "3D"
and realism.  And using high quality radiosity will also do amzing things that
just can't be accomplished by simply tweaking all of the above.
And then you have HDR light probes.  That will bath your scene with complex
light that simply cannot be matched in any other way. Especially if you have
some reflection in your finishes.
You truly have to see it to believe it.

As for speed, POV-Ray is slow.   It's a raytracer and uses a lot of
physical-based rendering techniques.  It's not a raster graphics package, and
doesn't use a GPU.
One must be thoughtful, and hand-craft the scene like the old masters.   You get
out what you put in.

Like jr said, post some code and a render, and we can spot areas that can
benefit from specific improvements, and help optimize things that would
otherwise unnecessarily slow down the render.

- BE

[jr] Re: pls make a app...

Sat, 11 Jul 2026 07:45:00 GMT

hi.

"" wrote:
> hello POV-ray users... im trying to make the best POV-ray scene ever but it
> looks like trash... soo... can somebody pls make a app for pc (windows) that
> show how to make povray scene much better?

if you post the scene, or a cut-down version of it, and tell how you rendered
it, that is, which options etc, I'm sure people will try to help.  (if there are
multiple files post a Zip archive)

> and also can somebody create an
> software that works like blender (a 3D software that can create scenes with
> preview and no coding) that shows the preview every 100 milisecond on 320x240
> but they after render the scene (not the full scene) pls?

perhaps the real time render option ('+rtr') will help ?

regards, jr.

[] pls make a app...

Fri, 10 Jul 2026 20:05:00 GMT

hello POV-ray users... im trying to make the best POV-ray scene ever but it
looks like trash... soo... can somebody pls make a app for pc (windows) that
show how to make povray scene much better? and also can somebody create an
software that works like blender (a 3D software that can create scenes with
preview and no coding) that shows the preview every 100 milisecond on 320x240
but they after render the scene (not the full scene) pls?

[Bald Eagle] Re: Mixed array

Tue, 7 Jul 2026 12:05:00 GMT

William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:

Well hello there, stranger.
Hope all is going as well as can be.

We've missed you in these parts.

- BW

[William F Pokorny] Re: Mixed array

Sun, 5 Jul 2026 16:07:33 GMT

On 7/3/26 16:08, jr wrote:
> iirc, both Bald Eagle and WFP have partial solutions.  (no refs, sorry)

FWIW, sample yuqk code using its id_type() keyword.

//---
#version unofficial 3.8; // yuqk
#if (file_exists("version.inc"))
     #include "version.inc"
#end
#if (!defined(Fork_yuqk))
     #error "This POV-Ray SDL code requires the yuqk fork."
#end

#include "setidtypes.inc"       // init global.dictIdTypes dictionary
McrPrintGlobalDictIdTypes(true) // Utility macro to print types

#declare Datas = array mixed;

#declare Datas[0] = <1,2,3>;
#declare Datas[1] = <1,2,3,4>;
#declare Datas[2] = <1,2>;

#if (id_type(Datas[2])=global.dictIdTypes.v2d)
     #debug "\nDatas[2] is a 2D vector\n"
#end
#if (id_type(Datas[0])=global.dictIdTypes.v3d)
     #debug "\nDatas[0] is a 3D vector\n"
#end
#if (id_type(Datas[1])=global.dictIdTypes.v4d)
     #debug "\nDatas[1] is a 4D vector\n"
#end
#debug "\n"

#error "No objects. Testing SDL."
//---

Bill P.

[kurtz le pirate] Re: Mixed array

Sat, 4 Jul 2026 16:16:53 GMT

Thanks for your replies, guys.
Those are some really clever solutions. Bravo.

I'm not sure yet if I'll use them or rewrite my code so I don't have to 
run those tests anymore.

Thanks again




-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Bald Eagle] Re: Mixed array

Sat, 4 Jul 2026 12:50:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:

> There's a slightly more advanced version posted sometime last year,

https://news.povray.org/povray.advanced-users/message/%3Cweb.68478f382f29ff11f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org%3E/#%3Cw
eb.68478f382f29ff11f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org%3E

- BE

[Bald Eagle] Re: Mixed array

Sat, 4 Jul 2026 00:55:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> iirc, both Bald Eagle and WFP have partial solutions.  (no refs, sorry)

I have a full solution.

https://news.povray.org/povray.general/message/%3Cweb.682bc388985098ff1f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org%3E/#%3Cweb.682
bc388985098ff1f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org%3E

There's a slightly more advanced version posted sometime last year, but this
should do ya.

- BE

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Mixed array

Sat, 4 Jul 2026 00:02:01 GMT

On 2026-07-03 12:11 (-4), kurtz le pirate wrote:
> 
> #declare Datas = array mixed;
> 
> #declare Datas[0] = <1,2,3>;
> #declare Datas[1] = <1,2,3,4>;
> #declare Datas[2] = <1,2>;
> 
> 
> how can you tell that the vector in Datas[0] has 3 components and the
> vector in Datas[1] 4 ?

I managed to figure something out for some special applications in two
of my libraries.  Have a look at macro Caption__Get_padding() in
caption.inc and macro Lamp_Has4D() in desklamp.inc and see if you can
generalize them.

  https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-Caption/blob/main/caption.inc
  https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-DeskLamp/blob/main/desklamp.inc

[jr] Re: Hi everyone, could someone please explain ho...

Fri, 3 Jul 2026 20:10:00 GMT

hi,

Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
> Le 2026-06-30 à 14:50, jr a écrit :
> > ... would highlight all except the brackets.  may need to rethink.. :-)
>
> No problem using Thunderbird. Appears directly as a functional link.

good info, thanks.


regards, jr.

[jr] Re: Mixed array

Fri, 3 Jul 2026 20:10:00 GMT

hi,

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> With this :
> #declare Datas = array mixed;
> #declare Datas[0] = <1,2,3>;
> #declare Datas[1] = <1,2,3,4>;
> #declare Datas[2] = <1,2>;
>
> how can you tell that the vector in Datas[0] has 3 components and the
> vector in Datas[1] 4 ?

in a word, you/we cannot.

> So far, I haven't found anything online about this. So a little help
> would be appreciated ;)

iirc, both Bald Eagle and WFP have partial solutions.  (no refs, sorry)

if only 2/3/4 vector data is stored, you could combine vector and #components in
a 5-vector ?

regards, jr.

[kurtz le pirate] Mixed array

Fri, 3 Jul 2026 16:11:44 GMT

Hello,


With this :

#declare Datas = array mixed;

#declare Datas[0] = <1,2,3>;
#declare Datas[1] = <1,2,3,4>;
#declare Datas[2] = <1,2>;


how can you tell that the vector in Datas[0] has 3 components and the 
vector in Datas[1] 4 ?


So far, I haven't found anything online about this. So a little help 
would be appreciated ;)



-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[Francois LE COAT] Re: Optical Inertia

Thu, 2 Jul 2026 15:00:18 GMT

Hi,

Here is the flight of a drone through the forest...

	<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RefA0o2wkE>

What is "temporal disparity"?

In the context of stereoscopic vision or image matching, disparity
(typically spatial) measures the difference in position of a single
point across two images (e.g., left and right).

When applied to the temporal domain, temporal disparity therefore
refers to:
- The positional difference of a point or feature between two
consecutive images in a video sequence, reflecting motion or
temporal change.
- A metric used in computer vision to estimate optical-flow or
3D structure from image sequences.

Measuring optical-flow between successive images matched over time
â€” by estimating projective dominant motion â€” reveals
"tem
poral
disparity".

Best regards,

-- 
FranÃ§ois LE COAT
<https://eureka.atari.org/>

[Cousin Ricky] Re: DeskLamp 2.0.2-beta bug fix

Wed, 1 Jul 2026 22:25:48 GMT

On 2026-06-20 15:33 (-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
> I have fixed a bug where the lamp hood illumination is brighter than the
> bulb that illuminates it.  This bug manifested only for colored bulbs
> with non-radiosity scenes; and for non-HDR formats, only when the light
> was very dim or the bulb color was fully saturated.
> 
> I am still investigating the finish on the colored bulb itself.

My investigation found no error in the colored bulb, so I'm promoting
this version to release candidate.

  https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-DeskLamp/releases

[Cousin Ricky] Re: My contributions: October 2025 update

Wed, 1 Jul 2026 22:19:05 GMT

On 2025-10-13 15:18 (-4), Cousin Ricky wrote:
> 
> DeskLamp links to EnergyStar.  As the president is a climate change
> denier, I will add an early January link from the Wayback Machine.
> Since there are no changes to DeskLamp features since my last upload,
> and (unlike the CDC) EnergyStar misinformation is not a matter of life
> and death, I won't bother uploading the Wayback link before the Object
> Collection comes back online.
> 
> One would think that saving money would be enough to value energy
> efficiency, but we have "coal rollers" in the states who deliberately
> waste fuel for no other reason than to pollute the air.  Sanity is lost
> here.  Hopefully, the president values his own pocketbook and will leave
> EnergyStar alone.

Well, in passing, I just found out that POTUS did indeed try to kill
EnergyStar, but thankfully, Republicans in Congress still value their
own electric bills, and they blocked the attempt.  Nevertheless, the
Wayback link came along for the bug fix that I posted in another thread.

[Alain Martel] Re: Hi everyone, could someone please explain ho...

Wed, 1 Jul 2026 21:12:52 GMT

Le 2026-06-30 Ã  14:50, jr a Ã©critÂ :
> hi,
> 
> "Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>>> ...
>> <www.f-lohmueller.de/pov_tut/plants/plants_00e.htm>
>>
>> This didn't load for me
>> dropping '<>' made it work
> 
> sorry, yes.  the purpose was/is to prevent long URLs from "breaking" due to
> line-breaking, and until recently (2/3 ? years) double-clicking (in Chrome) on
> the text would highlight all except the brackets.  may need to rethink.. :-)
> 
> 
> regards, jr.
> 

No problem using Thunderbird. Appears directly as a functional link.

[jr] Re: Hi everyone, could someone please explain ho...

Tue, 30 Jun 2026 18:55:00 GMT

hi,

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > ...
> <www.f-lohmueller.de/pov_tut/plants/plants_00e.htm>
>
> This didn't load for me
> dropping '<>' made it work

sorry, yes.  the purpose was/is to prevent long URLs from "breaking" due to
line-breaking, and until recently (2/3 ? years) double-clicking (in Chrome) on
the text would highlight all except the brackets.  may need to rethink.. :-)

regards, jr.

[Leroy] Re: Hi everyone, could someone please explain ho...

Tue, 30 Jun 2026 17:00:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > I recently discovered the POV-Tree software, but I'm not sure how to generate a
> > custom tree. Any tips?
>
> <www.f-lohmueller.de/pov_tut/plants/plants_00e.htm>
>
>
> regards, jr.

<www.f-lohmueller.de/pov_tut/plants/plants_00e.htm>

This didn't load for me

dropping '<>' made it work

Have Fun!

[jr] Re: Hi everyone, could someone please explain ho...

Mon, 29 Jun 2026 21:05:00 GMT

hi,

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> I recently discovered the POV-Tree software, but I'm not sure how to generate a
> custom tree. Any tips?

<www.f-lohmueller.de/pov_tut/plants/plants_00e.htm>


regards, jr.

[Cossack ] Hi everyone, could someone please explain how to...

Mon, 29 Jun 2026 20:00:00 GMT

I recently discovered the POV-Tree software, but I'm not sure how to generate a
custom tree. Any tips?

[Bald Eagle] Re: SOR documentation

Mon, 29 Jun 2026 11:30:00 GMT

"boltcapt" <bol### [at] aolcom> wrote:

> I hope this captures what you were looking for. If not, let me know so I can
> refocus.

I think that after going through all of that, you may have added some technical
points and terminology/references of which I was not aware.
Those would be good to have in the documentation.

The larger project, is of course, implementing the fixes discovered for:

The unrendered portions of the revolved spline, due to those portions of the
interpolated Catmull-Rom spline being negative

The first control point not being able to be placed at the same Y value as
another control point (possibly raise a warning and maybe auto-fix)

And the false positive bounding tests that call unnecessary root-solving.

Related to root-solving, there would be the issue of possibly implementing
tighter bounding by the "bounding by proxy Bezier spline method" mentioned in
the thread.

That last could possibly solve some related problems with the sphere_sweep {}
object.

The deep-dive into the how and why of the sor {} and reimplementing it all in
SDL along with various fixes too a lot, and I don't know that currently have
enough mental energy and, more importantly, uninterrupted time to scale the
steep learning curve of learning how to competently code in c++, set up a
machine, and do all of the iterative compiling of edited source and bug-hunting.

So,
The proposal/request would be that you could identify the exact files that need
to be edited, and write the fixes based on my SDL versions, and I could follow
along and try to make sure it all jives with my copious notes,

or

I could edit the source, and you could just do the compiling and supervise the
edits "No, you shouldn't do it that way because" or similar dev code coaching,

or

some mix of the two approaches.

The end goal would be to produce new edited source with excellent commentary and
an eye toward allowing any future changes and extensions without having to
discover fire, invent the wheel, and reverse-engineer the sor {} source code all
over again.

It sounds like a lot, and probably is (isn't everything), but I also think that
since most of the theoretical heavy lifting, and implementation in SDL is
already done, that it might also be a bit easier (in the broad-stroke sense)
than it seems at first glance.

Maybe we can start a new thread and we can discuss the details of what needs
doing and go from there.   I can outline things, you can ask questions, and we
can hammer out a game plan before even touching any code.

Thank you,

Bill "Bald Eagle" Walker

[koppi] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges

Sat, 27 Jun 2026 20:45:00 GMT

I have successfully addressed the coordinate system conversion from OpenGL to
POV-Ray within the BPP project. You can review the specific changes in the
following commit:

https://github.com/bullet-physics-playground/bpp/commit/ad62e0d7e0cd035819326587057c282af8918a67

Best regards,
koppi

[koppi] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges

Sat, 27 Jun 2026 19:50:00 GMT

Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
> The actual problem was a negative right vector.

Alain, yes - the primary difference between the OpenGL and POV-Ray coordinate
systems is their handedness. OpenGL traditionally defaults to a right-handed
coordinate system, whereas POV-Ray strictly uses a left-handed coordinate
system.

Changing POV-Ray to a right-handed system requires manually modifying the
camera’s right vector, which frequently breaks built-in shapes and third-party
macro libraries. 10 years ago I changed the right vector in BPP POV-Ray export
to be negative:

https://github.com/bullet-physics-playground/bpp/commit/a01a071a31fc4f263225aa05eb7de655d9c5e37f#diff-0944863e432aaa433
80d43497ccbe58cd8a099832772b0a5ffb9271385e0ddd1R903

But I don't know if this is the correct way of doing the OpenGL to POV-Ray
export or if there is a better solution; the cleaner, more standard solution is
to keep POV-Ray's camera completely default (left-handed) and convert the OpenGL
coordinate data (positions, rotations, and matrices) directly during the export
phase.

I think I need to rewrite the rotation or positioning routines inside BPP:
 1. Transform Positions and Direction Vectors
 2. Transform Rotations
 3. Transforming Full 4x4 Matrices

[Alain Martel] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges

Sat, 27 Jun 2026 17:57:29 GMT

Le 2026-06-26 Ã  15:18, Maetes a Ã©critÂ :
> "koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> 
>> I tried scale <-1,1,1>, and scale <1,-1,1> and scale <1,1,-1>, but that did not
>> work.
> 
> That has to work.
> Maybe you scaled the wrong thing?
> I ask that because I often modify in the the wrong place and am ashamed to the
> ground afterwards :)
> 
> ma
> 

The actual problem was a negative right vector.

[Cossack ] Re: I=3D92m looking for a 3D converter that work...

Sat, 27 Jun 2026 14:20:00 GMT

yesbird wrote:
> On 24/06/2026 14:08, Cossack wrote:
> > Excuse me, do you know of any converter that can convert from one format, for
> > example .obj, to .pov, for use in a terminal utility or for coding?
>
> Although this is not a terminal, but browser-based converter, maybe you
> will find it useful to convert obj, fbx, glb, gltf, stl to mesh2:
> https://povlab.yesbird.online/studio/
> --
> YB

of course, thank you, but I need it in the format of some utility, I also work
on the phone, which makes all attempts to access the site that I know of
impossible

[yesbird] Re: How about a Gaussian Splat primitive in Povr...

Sat, 27 Jun 2026 13:09:54 GMT

On 27/06/2026 15:57, yesbird wrote:> Thanks so much for pointing to this 
technology, not seen itÂ before.

Was very impressed by this site:
https://superspl.at/
-- 
YB

[Cossack ] I managed to create a fake radiosity

Sat, 27 Jun 2026 13:05:00 GMT

I made some demo images which you can view in the zip package

[yesbird] Re: How about a Gaussian Splat primitive in Povr...

Sat, 27 Jun 2026 12:57:58 GMT

On 26/06/2026 08:05, Paul Bourke wrote:
> Subject says it all.
> 

Thanks so much for pointing to this technology, not seen itÂ before.

If I understand well, oneÂ ofÂ advantages is rendering performance
for
real-time applications.Not sure if POV-Ray implementation will give
better qualityÂ to sacrificeÂ thisÂ feature.
--
YB

[jr] Re: Distributed POV-Ray Rendering and Some SDL E...

Sat, 27 Jun 2026 06:35:00 GMT

hi,

"boltcapt" <bol### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> "Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> > "boltcapt" <bol### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> > ...
> > > with five new function types: userfun(), uservectfun(), usercolorfun(),
> > > useruv(), and userfracfun(), returning scalar, vector, color, UV, and 4D values
> > > respectively.
> > > For example:
> > > uservectfun("curl_field", x, y, z)
> > > where curl_field is a function exported by a dynamically loaded plugin.
> >
> > The other stuff sounds great, but plugins sound fantastic!
> >
> > I am VERY eager to hear more.
> >
> > Also, you seem to have a highly desirable skill set.
> > I have done an extensive amount of work tracking down some issues with source
> > code, but now find myself with limited time to get that implemented in a patch.
> >
> >
https://news.povray.org/povray.documentation.inbuilt/thread/%3Cweb.68bdae61251da1bc1f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.o
rg
> %3
> > E/
> >
> > Do you think that you could possibly help me get that work pushed across the
> > finish line so that all the time and effort was not wasted?
> >
> > - BE
>
> Happy to provide you with a good sample of a plugin package. It's long, but I
> can email it.

could you also be interested in putting together a wiki page[*] to document your
work ?  tia.

[*] MediaWiki, would be happy to assist with markup etc if you provide
"content".


regards, jr.

[boltcapt] Re: Distributed POV-Ray Rendering and Some SDL E...

Sat, 27 Jun 2026 03:10:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "boltcapt" <bol### [at] aolcom> wrote:
>
> > I also added a feature that I personally felt was missing from POV-Ray: the
> > ability to call precompiled native functions directly from the Scene Description
> > Language. To support this, I developed a plugin system and extended the parser
> > with five new function types: userfun(), uservectfun(), usercolorfun(),
> > useruv(), and userfracfun(), returning scalar, vector, color, UV, and 4D values
> > respectively.
> > For example:
> > uservectfun("curl_field", x, y, z)
> > where curl_field is a function exported by a dynamically loaded plugin.
>
> The other stuff sounds great, but plugins sound fantastic!
>
> I am VERY eager to hear more.
>
> Also, you seem to have a highly desirable skill set.
> I have done an extensive amount of work tracking down some issues with source
> code, but now find myself with limited time to get that implemented in a patch.
>
>
https://news.povray.org/povray.documentation.inbuilt/thread/%3Cweb.68bdae61251da1bc1f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org
%3
> E/
>
> Do you think that you could possibly help me get that work pushed across the
> finish line so that all the time and effort was not wasted?
>
> - BE

Happy to provide you with a good sample of a plugin package. It's long, but I
can email it.

[Maetes] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges

Fri, 26 Jun 2026 19:20:00 GMT

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> I tried scale <-1,1,1>, and scale <1,-1,1> and scale <1,1,-1>, but that did not
> work.

That has to work.
Maybe you scaled the wrong thing?
I ask that because I often modify in the the wrong place and am ashamed to the
ground afterwards :)

ma

[boltcapt] Re: SOR documentation

Fri, 26 Jun 2026 18:05:00 GMT

Here is what I have. It is based on this source:
- `povray-3.7.0.10/source/backend/shape/sor.cpp` - `Sor::Compute_Sor()` (the
spline fit), `Sor::Intersect()`, `Sor::Inside()`, `Sor::Normal()`
- `povray-3.7.0.10/source/backend/parser/parse.cpp` - `Parser::Parse_Sor()`

The upstream `master/source/core/shape/sor.cpp` is the same algorithm,
only renamed/namespaced.

---

The SOR curve is a **single-valued function of height**: radius-squared as a
function of height,

r^2 = f(h) = A*h^3 + B*h^2 + C*h + D        (one cubic per segment)

(`sor.cpp:47-49`). It stores `r^2`, not `r`, because the ray-surface equation
`(Pu + k Du)^2 + (Pv + k Dv)^2 = f(Pw + k Dw)` is then a **cubic in k**
(`sor.cpp:51-56`, set up at `sor.cpp:370-381`). That is the "solving a cubic
polynomial" claim on the wiki - it is true *for the SOR primitive specifically*
because the SOR spline is always this height-cubic. (See section 6 on the lathe
comparison you flagged.)

Because it is a function of height, **interior control points must strictly
increase in height** - enforced at `parse.cpp:5816-5820`. You cannot make a
curve that doubles back in h with a SOR; that is what `lathe` is for.

You asked "which control points get used?"

`Parse_Sor()` (`parse.cpp:5780-5843`):

- Requires **>= 4 points** (`parse.cpp:5799`).
- Reads `Number` points, each a 2D vector `<radius, height>` (x = radius,
  y = height; z unused) (`parse.cpp:5808-5821`).
- Then **`Object->Number -= 3`** (`parse.cpp:5839`) - comment: *"There are
  Number-3 segments!"*

So for **N input points there are N-3 segments.** Indexing the points P[0..N-1]:

- The **drawn surface runs from P[1] (base) to P[N-2] (cap)**.
- **P[0] and P[N-1] are "phantom" points** - they are never on the surface.
  They exist only to supply the end tangents (`sor.cpp:75-77`).

Segment `i` (`i = 0 .. N-4`, loop at `sor.cpp:1028`) is bounded by **P[i+1]
(lower) and P[i+2] (upper)**, and additionally reads **P[i] and P[i+3]** as the
outboard neighbors used purely for slope estimation. So **four control points
feed every segment**: the two endpoints plus one neighbor on each side. That is
the Catmull-Rom stencil, and it is the direct answer to "which control points
get used."

The interior tangents are **central finite differences** over the two
neighbors. In `Compute_Sor` (`sor.cpp:1038-1044`):

k[0] = P[i+1].x^2;                                  // r1^2  = f(h1)
k[1] = P[i+2].x^2;                                  // r2^2  = f(h2)
k[2] = (P[i+2].x - P[i].x)   / (P[i+2].y - P[i].y); // dr/dh at lower point
(secant of its neighbors)
k[3] = (P[i+3].x - P[i+1].x) / (P[i+3].y - P[i+1].y);// dr/dh at upper point
k[2] *= 2.0 * P[i+1].x;                             // chain rule: d(r^2)/dh =
2r * dr/dh
k[3] *= 2.0 * P[i+2].x;

Using P1,P2 for the segment endpoints and P0,P3 for the outboard neighbors
(heights h0..h3, radii r0..r3):

- tangent at the lower point = `(r2 - r0)/(h2 - h0)`
- tangent at the upper point = `(r3 - r1)/(h3 - h1)`

That is the **non-uniform Catmull-Rom tangent** (the cardinal-spline tension-0
case), written in finite-difference form for unequally spaced knots. Two
nuances worth putting in the docs:

1. The tangent is computed in **radius** space, then converted to **radius^2**
   space by the chain rule `d(r^2)/dh = 2r*dr/dh` (the `2.0 * P[..].x` factors).
   So the fit is a cubic Hermite in `(h, r^2)` whose slopes come from a
   Catmull-Rom estimate in `(h, r)`.
2. Tangents use the actual heights (`h2-h0`, `h3-h1`), i.e. it is the
   **non-uniform / centripetal-style parameterization by h**, not the uniform
   `(P_{i+1}-P_{i-1})/2` form.

This is exactly the Andrew-Hung "Catmull-Rom in plain English" construction you
found - applied to r^2 vs h.

I think this gets at what you are looking for:

For each segment we have a cubic with 4 unknowns `[A, B, C, D]` and 4 Hermite
constraints (value + slope at each endpoint):

f(h1)  = r1^2
f(h2)  = r2^2
f'(h1) = 2*r1*(r2 - r0)/(h2 - h0)
f'(h2) = 2*r2*(r3 - r1)/(h3 - h1)

with `f(h)  = A h^3 + B h^2 + C h + D`
and  `f'(h) = 3A h^2 + 2B h + C`.

Writing the four constraints as `M x = b`:

        | h1^3   h1^2   h1   1 |   | A |   | r1^2          |   | k0 |
  M x = | h2^3   h2^2   h2   1 | * | B | = | r2^2          | = | k1 | = b
        | 3h1^2  2h1    1    0 |   | C |   | f'(h1)        |   | k2 |
        | 3h2^2  2h2    1    0 |   | D |   | f'(h2)        |   | k3 |

This is **built verbatim** at `sor.cpp:1046-1068`:

| code                                      | row              | meaning
     |
|-------------------------------------------|------------------|----------------------|
| `Mat[0]` with `w=P[i+1].y` (`:1048-1051`) | `[w^3 w^2 w 1]`  | value at lower
point |
| `Mat[1]` with `w=P[i+2].y` (`:1060-1063`) | `[w^3 w^2 w 1]`  | value at upper
point |
| `Mat[2]` with `w=P[i+1].y` (`:1053-1056`) | `[3w^2 2w 1 0]`  | slope at lower
point |
| `Mat[3]` with `w=P[i+2].y` (`:1065-1068`) | `[3w^2 2w 1 0]`  | slope at upper
point |

**The key point the wiki omits:** in `b = M x`,
- **`b` is the *known* right-hand side** - the radius^2 values and the slopes,
  computed straight from the control points (the `k[]` array).
- **`M` is *known*** - just powers of the two endpoint heights.
- **`x = [A,B,C,D]` is the *unknown*** we are solving for.

So you solve it the only way you can: **`x = M^-1 * b`.** your instinct
("x = b/M") is correct - for a matrix that "division" is inversion. The code
does precisely this:

MInvers(Mat, Mat);                                   // sor.cpp:1070  -> Mat =
M^-1
A = k0*Mat[0][0] + k1*Mat[0][1] + k2*Mat[0][2] + k3*Mat[0][3];  // :1074  (row 0
of M^-1 * b)
B = ... Mat[1] ...                                   // :1075
C = ... Mat[2] ...                                   // :1076
D = ... Mat[3] ...                                   // :1077

So the wiki's "calculate b, then b = M x" reads backwards because it never says
*x is the unknown and you invert M*. The doc should state: build M from the two
heights, build b from the control-point radii and the Catmull-Rom slopes, then
`[A B C D]^T = M^-1 b`.

You had a concern about division by zero. The zeros in rows 3 and 4
(`Mat[2][3]=0`, `Mat[3][3]=0`, `sor.cpp:1056,1068`)
are simply the **D-column of the derivative rows**: differentiating
`A h^3+B h^2+C h+D` kills the constant term, so the coefficient on D in `f'(h)`
is
0. They are *entries of the matrix*, not *divisors*. Inversion (`MInvers`) is
Gaussian elimination; it never divides by those structural zeros.

The matrix is non-singular as long as the **two endpoint heights differ**,
`h1 != h2`, which is guaranteed by the strict-monotonic-height rule
(`parse.cpp:5816-5820`) and re-checked against degenerate neighbor spacing at
`sor.cpp:1030-1034` (`fabs(P[i+2].y - P[i].y) < EPSILON` -> error). So there is
no division by zero. (The only divisions in the whole construction are the two
finite-difference denominators `h2-h0` and `h3-h1`, both protected by that same
check.)

After solving, coefficients with magnitude `< EPSILON` are snapped to 0
(`sor.cpp:1079-1082`) purely to speed later polynomial solves.

You are right about the two meanings of h. The doc reuses one symbol for
two different things:

- In **M and b**, `h` (the code's `w = P[i+1].y`, `P[i+2].y`) is a **fixed
  number**: the height of a specific control point. These are constants of the
  linear system.
- In **`f(h) = A h^3 + B h^2 + C h + D`**, `h` is the **free running variable**:
  any height inside the segment `[h1, h2]`. Once A,B,C,D are known you evaluate
  the cubic at any such h to get r^2 there. That evaluation **is** the
  interpolation you said you "couldn't see."

Doc fix: use distinct symbols, e.g. `h_j , h_{j+1}` for the endpoint heights in
M/b, and a separate `h` (or `w`) for the argument of `f`.

Where the running form is used in the engine, for cross-reference:
- `Inside()` evaluates `f(h)` by Horner: `r = h*(h*(h*A+B)+C)+D`
(`sor.cpp:479`).
- `Normal()` uses `f'(h)/2`: `0.5*(h*(3A h+2B)+C)` -> normal `(x, -f'/2, z)`
  (`sor.cpp:547-551`).
- Cap/base radii are `f(h)` at the top/bottom heights (`sor.cpp:1143-1167`).

You are right that the wiki sentence about the sor vs lathe polynomial order.
It is imprecise. The SOR primitive is *always* the
the height-cubic of section 1, so its ray test is *always* a cubic (degree 3,
`Solve_Polynomial(3, ...)` at `sor.cpp:381`). The `lathe` object, by contrast,
supports `linear_spline`, `quadratic_spline`, `cubic_spline`, and
`bezier_spline` (`parse.cpp:2950-2956`), and its splines are parametric `(r(t),
h(t))` rather than `r^2=f(h)`. The "6th-order polynomial" figure applies only to
lathe's **cubic** spline case, not to lathe in general. The doc should say "a
cubic lathe segment requires a 6th-degree solve" rather than implying every
lathe does.

I hope this captures what you were looking for. If not, let me know so I can
refocus.

[ingo] Re: How about a Gaussian Splat primitive in Povr...

Fri, 26 Jun 2026 17:54:27 GMT

On 2026-06-26 07:05, Paul Bourke wrote:
> Subject says it all.
> 

Yes please ;)

I've seen some very good results but have no clue whatsoever how it works.

ingo

[koppi] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges

Fri, 26 Jun 2026 15:45:00 GMT

jvp's original POV-Ray project files of the box with oranges scene are at (- if
you want to experiment):

> http://www.ignorancia.org/index.php?page=a-box-of-oranges

Hth,
koppi

[Paul Bourke] How about a Gaussian Splat primitive in Povray?

Fri, 26 Jun 2026 05:10:00 GMT

Subject says it all.

[Bald Eagle] Re: Distributed POV-Ray Rendering and Some SDL E...

Thu, 25 Jun 2026 22:45:00 GMT

"boltcapt" <bol### [at] aolcom> wrote:

> I also added a feature that I personally felt was missing from POV-Ray: the
> ability to call precompiled native functions directly from the Scene Description
> Language. To support this, I developed a plugin system and extended the parser
> with five new function types: userfun(), uservectfun(), usercolorfun(),
> useruv(), and userfracfun(), returning scalar, vector, color, UV, and 4D values
> respectively.
> For example:
> uservectfun("curl_field", x, y, z)
> where curl_field is a function exported by a dynamically loaded plugin.

The other stuff sounds great, but plugins sound fantastic!

I am VERY eager to hear more.

Also, you seem to have a highly desirable skill set.
I have done an extensive amount of work tracking down some issues with source
code, but now find myself with limited time to get that implemented in a patch.

https://news.povray.org/povray.documentation.inbuilt/thread/%3Cweb.68bdae61251da1bc1f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org%3
E/

Do you think that you could possibly help me get that work pushed across the
finish line so that all the time and effort was not wasted?

- BE

[Bald Eagle] Re: Distributed POV-Ray Rendering and Some SDL E...

Thu, 25 Jun 2026 22:45:00 GMT

That question has been answered as recently as this thread:

https://news.povray.org/povray.off-topic/message/%3Cweb.6a23f45069259b1fd1d09a9825979125%40news.povray.org%3E/#%3Cweb.6
a23f45069259b1fd1d09a9825979125%40news.povray.org%3E

Just don't use any UTF-8 characters and all should be fine.

- BE

[boltcapt] Re: Distributed POV-Ray Rendering and Some SDL E...

Thu, 25 Jun 2026 21:25:00 GMT

"boltcapt" <bol### [at] aolcom> wrote:

the blank 9th line should read:

performance is even more interesting: total speedups range from 17x to 63x,

I have no idea why it was deleted

> I have been a POV-Ray fan for a long time. I know there have been several
> approaches to distributed rendering over the years, but after retiring I was
> looking for a project and decided to create my own distributed client-server
> rendering system, using POV-Ray 3.7.0.10 as the base.
>
> So far the results have been encouraging. With 8 clients, measured speedup for
> still-image rendering ranges from 88.4% to 98.2% scaling efficiency, depending
> on image size and complexity (larger, more complex images scale best). Animation
>
> depending on scene characteristics. These gains come not only from distributing
> work across clients, but also from parser and caching optimizations that
> eliminate a significant amount of repeated work.
>
> Here is a summary of the project.
>
> For hardware, I wanted to see what could be accomplished with a cluster of
> Raspberry Pi 5 Compute Modules. To that end I built two self-contained four-node
> Pi clusters. I'm happy to share hardware details if anyone is interested, but
> the hardware is not really the focus of this post.
>
> The more interesting work was creating the client-server software environment.
> Starting with POV-Ray 3.7.0.10, I modified the renderer to operate as a
> non-terminating client and optimized it for distributed operation. The server
> assigns work and collects results. Work distribution itself is straightforward:
> still images are divided into row ranges, while animations are distributed one
> frame per client.
>
> The key client-side modifications are aimed at avoiding unnecessary repeated
> work. Each client maintains a single persistent POV-Ray session across multiple
> tasks and renders. Parsed scene information is cached so that repeated renders
> of the same scene do not require reparsing. In addition, I modified the parser
> to support a static keyword, allowing large clock-independent structures to be
> cached and reused between animation frames. Similar concepts have been explored
> before, but the persistent-session architecture makes this particularly
> effective.
>
> I also added a feature that I personally felt was missing from POV-Ray: the
> ability to call precompiled native functions directly from the Scene Description
> Language. To support this, I developed a plugin system and extended the parser
> with five new function types: userfun(), uservectfun(), usercolorfun(),
> useruv(), and userfracfun(), returning scalar, vector, color, UV, and 4D values
> respectively.
> For example:
> uservectfun("curl_field", x, y, z)
> where curl_field is a function exported by a dynamically loaded plugin.
>
> The server side includes a number of supporting capabilities, including
> heartbeat monitoring, failed-task reassignment, thermal management, archive
> reuse, and delta synchronization of include files.
>
> I'd be interested in hearing whether others have experimented with similar
> persistent-session approaches, parser extensions, or SDL plugin mechanisms.

[boltcapt] Distributed POV-Ray Rendering and Some SDL Enhan...

Thu, 25 Jun 2026 21:00:00 GMT

I have been a POV-Ray fan for a long time. I know there have been several
approaches to distributed rendering over the years, but after retiring I was
looking for a project and decided to create my own distributed client-server
rendering system, using POV-Ray 3.7.0.10 as the base.

So far the results have been encouraging. With 8 clients, measured speedup for
still-image rendering ranges from 88.4% to 98.2% scaling efficiency, depending
on image size and complexity (larger, more complex images scale best). Animation
performance is even more interesting: total speedups range from 17× to 63×,
depending on scene characteristics. These gains come not only from distributing
work across clients, but also from parser and caching optimizations that
eliminate a significant amount of repeated work.

Here is a summary of the project.

For hardware, I wanted to see what could be accomplished with a cluster of
Raspberry Pi 5 Compute Modules. To that end I built two self-contained four-node
Pi clusters. I'm happy to share hardware details if anyone is interested, but
the hardware is not really the focus of this post.

The more interesting work was creating the client-server software environment.
Starting with POV-Ray 3.7.0.10, I modified the renderer to operate as a
non-terminating client and optimized it for distributed operation. The server
assigns work and collects results. Work distribution itself is straightforward:
still images are divided into row ranges, while animations are distributed one
frame per client.

The key client-side modifications are aimed at avoiding unnecessary repeated
work. Each client maintains a single persistent POV-Ray session across multiple
tasks and renders. Parsed scene information is cached so that repeated renders
of the same scene do not require reparsing. In addition, I modified the parser
to support a static keyword, allowing large clock-independent structures to be
cached and reused between animation frames. Similar concepts have been explored
before, but the persistent-session architecture makes this particularly
effective.

I also added a feature that I personally felt was missing from POV-Ray: the
ability to call precompiled native functions directly from the Scene Description
Language. To support this, I developed a plugin system and extended the parser
with five new function types: userfun(), uservectfun(), usercolorfun(),
useruv(), and userfracfun(), returning scalar, vector, color, UV, and 4D values
respectively.
For example:
uservectfun("curl_field", x, y, z)
where curl_field is a function exported by a dynamically loaded plugin.

The server side includes a number of supporting capabilities, including
heartbeat monitoring, failed-task reassignment, thermal management, archive
reuse, and delta synchronization of include files.

I'd be interested in hearing whether others have experimented with similar
persistent-session approaches, parser extensions, or SDL plugin mechanisms.

[yesbird] Re: I=92m looking for a 3D converter that works ...

Thu, 25 Jun 2026 10:44:01 GMT

On 24/06/2026 14:08, Cossack wrote:
> Excuse me, do you know of any converter that can convert from one format, for
> example .obj, to .pov, for use in a terminal utility or for coding?

Although this is not a terminal, but browser-based converter, maybe you
will find it useful to convert obj, fbx, glb, gltf, stl to mesh2:
https://povlab.yesbird.online/studio/
-- 
YB

[jr] Re: I=3D3D92m looking for a 3D converter that wo...

Thu, 25 Jun 2026 10:00:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > Excuse me, do you know of any converter that can convert from one format, for
> > example .obj, to .pov, for use in a terminal utility or for coding?

Google dug up this:
<github.com/JossWhittle/Obj2Pov>


regards, jr.

[jr] Re: I=3D92m looking for a 3D converter that work...

Thu, 25 Jun 2026 06:40:00 GMT

hi,

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Excuse me, do you know of any converter that can convert from one format, for
> example .obj, to .pov, for use in a terminal utility or for coding?

PoseRay is apparently the tool to use, though it has an UI:
<news.povray.org/povray.newusers/thread/%3Clq8gb4to0hscidm9dukt6h8dnsk390vk2l%404ax.com%3E/>

for STL conversion, you could use GTS as an intermediate format, eg:
  $ stl2gts someobj.stl | gts2pov > someobj.inc

there are several stl2gts converters, and one 'gts2pov' (see my wiki page)


regards, jr.

[Cossack ] I=92m looking for a 3D converter that works in t...

Wed, 24 Jun 2026 11:10:00 GMT

Excuse me, do you know of any converter that can convert from one format, for
example .obj, to .pov, for use in a terminal utility or for coding?

[Peter Markley] Re: Recovered old POV-Ray scenes

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 21:09:14 GMT

On 6/23/26 6:52 AM, Bald Eagle wrote:
> It was a busy weekend for me, but I made some time to watch the video.

I'm flattered that you made it a priority, how kind!

> (Especially amusing was when you said, "... you decided that I was old enough
> for you to teach me about Pov-Ray.")  :D
lol That's my dad for ya

Thank you for sharing your reaction, and for the kind words!! :-)

-- 
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient
1}}translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+
asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="
};#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[koppi] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:50:00 GMT

Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
> This line flips the whole image :
> right - image_width/image_height*x
> Change to :
> right image_width/image_height*x

Alain, than you - changing the right line in the camera scope now works.

[koppi] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:45:00 GMT

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Ok. Render with "povray +D box-w-oranges.ini +K49 +KFI49 +KFF49 +KI49 +KF49"

Forgot to include 3 files. updated zip.

[koppi] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:40:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> please post a zip with scene, logo, etc.  will make time tonight.  tia.

Ok. Render with "povray +D box-w-oranges.ini +K49 +KFI49 +KFF49 +KI49 +KF49"

[Alain Martel] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:38:52 GMT

Le 2026-06-23 Ã  13:39, koppi a Ã©critÂ :
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> negatively scaling a given axis can often do the trick, eg '<-1,1,1>' to flip X,
>> unsure about your situation.
> 
> Maybe I need to change the camera settings? - :
> 
> // Include file generated by Bullet Physics Playground
> // 2026-06-23 19:33:14 by koppi
> #declare use_focal_blur = 0; // 0=off 1=low quality 10=high quality
> 
> camera {
>    location < -47.0793, 40.3916, -2.00584 >
>    right - image_width/image_height*x
>    look_at <816111, -576540, 37955.3>   angle 66.2759
>    sky <0.576982, 0.816757, 0.000449072>
> #if(use_focal_blur)
>    aperture 0
>    blur_samples 10*use_focal_blur
>    focal_point <0, 0, 0>   confidence 0.9+(use_focal_blur*0.0085)
>    variance 1/(2000*use_focal_blur)
> #end
> }
> 
> 
> 

This line flips the whole image :
right - image_width/image_height*x
Change to :
right image_width/image_height*x

[Alain Martel] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:36:07 GMT

Le 2026-06-23 Ã  11:42, koppi a Ã©critÂ :
> Hi, the texture in the box of oranges scene is sonehow flipped from right to
> left. I want to fix this but do not know how. Can anybody give me a hint how to
> flip the logo image_map texture?
> 
> #declare m_madera_cajon=
> material{
>    texture{
>      pigment{
>        image_map{jpeg "flat_wood_4022164.JPG" interpolate 2}
>      }
>      normal{
>        bump_map{jpeg "flat_wood_4022164.JPG" bump_size 1}
>      }
>      rotate 90*z
>      scale .5
>    }
>    texture{
>      pigment{
>        image_map{png "logo" interpolate 2}
>      }
>    }
> }
> 
> --
> koppi
> 
I see 2 easy ways :
1) Change rotate 90*z for rotate -90*z
2) Change image_map{png "logo" interpolate 2} to image_map{png "logo" 
interpolate 2 scale <-1, 1, -1>}

[jr] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:20:00 GMT

hi,

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > negatively scaling a given axis ...
>
> Maybe I need to change the camera settings? - :

please post a zip with scene, logo, etc.  will make time tonight.  tia.


regards, jr.

[koppi] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 17:40:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> negatively scaling a given axis can often do the trick, eg '<-1,1,1>' to flip X,
> unsure about your situation.

Maybe I need to change the camera settings? - :

// Include file generated by Bullet Physics Playground
// 2026-06-23 19:33:14 by koppi
#declare use_focal_blur = 0; // 0=off 1=low quality 10=high quality

camera {
  location < -47.0793, 40.3916, -2.00584 >
  right - image_width/image_height*x
  look_at <816111, -576540, 37955.3>   angle 66.2759
  sky <0.576982, 0.816757, 0.000449072>
#if(use_focal_blur)
  aperture 0
  blur_samples 10*use_focal_blur
  focal_point <0, 0, 0>   confidence 0.9+(use_focal_blur*0.0085)
  variance 1/(2000*use_focal_blur)
#end
}

[koppi] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 17:40:00 GMT

jr,

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> negatively scaling a given axis can often do the trick, eg '<-1,1,1>' to flip X,
> unsure about your situation.

I tried scale <-1,1,1>, and scale <1,-1,1> and scale <1,1,-1>, but that did not
work.

[jr] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 16:20:00 GMT

hi,

"koppi" <jak### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Hi, the texture in the box of oranges scene is sonehow flipped from right to
> left. I want to fix this but do not know how. Can anybody give me a hint how to
> flip the logo image_map texture?

negatively scaling a given axis can often do the trick, eg '<-1,1,1>' to flip X,
unsure about your situation.

regards, jr.

[koppi] Re: Jaimes Box of Oranges

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 15:55:00 GMT

[koppi] Jaimes Box of Oranges

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 15:45:00 GMT

Hi, the texture in the box of oranges scene is sonehow flipped from right to
left. I want to fix this but do not know how. Can anybody give me a hint how to
flip the logo image_map texture?

#declare m_madera_cajon=
material{
  texture{
    pigment{
      image_map{jpeg "flat_wood_4022164.JPG" interpolate 2}
    }
    normal{
      bump_map{jpeg "flat_wood_4022164.JPG" bump_size 1}
    }
    rotate 90*z
    scale .5
  }
  texture{
    pigment{
      image_map{png "logo" interpolate 2}
    }
  }
}

--
koppi

[Bald Eagle] Re: Recovered old POV-Ray scenes

Tue, 23 Jun 2026 10:55:00 GMT

Hi Peter,

It was a busy weekend for me, but I made some time to watch the video.

It's pretty impressive that your dad was able to write a raytracer, drivers, and
other software from scratch!

I also liked the historical thread linking your dad's early renders, Pixar, and
your attempts to recreate them.

Especially interesting was the process to create that heart!
Making a clay model and then actually slicing it and "scanning" it by hand!
It's just about the complete reverse of 3D printing - going from the 3D object
to a projection in 2D.  :O

Looking forward to more interesting ideas and Pov-Ray scenes!

- BE

(Especially amusing was when you said, "... you decided that I was old enough
for you to teach me about Pov-Ray.")  :D

[Cousin Ricky] DeskLamp 2.0.2-beta bug fix

Sat, 20 Jun 2026 19:33:02 GMT

I have fixed a bug where the lamp hood illumination is brighter than the
bulb that illuminates it.  This bug manifested only for colored bulbs
with non-radiosity scenes; and for non-HDR formats, only when the light
was very dim or the bulb color was fully saturated.

I am still investigating the finish on the colored bulb itself.

DeskLamp version 2.0.2 is in beta at
 https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-DeskLamp/releases/tag/v2.0.2-beta.1

[ingo] Kubelka & Munk like colour mixing

Fri, 19 Jun 2026 07:47:08 GMT

As a reference for a future POV-Ray version, a better way of mixing 
colours as ink / paint (colour_map etc.). Can be optional for backwards 
compatibility.

Paper: https://scrtwpns.com/mixbox.pdf
Video: https://youtu.be/ATzVPVNp1qA
Talk: https://youtu.be/_qa5iWdfNKg
Demo: https://scrtwpns.com/mixbox/painter

Code: https://github.com/scrtwpns/mixbox
Docs: https://scrtwpns.com/mixbox/docs/

ingo

[jr] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t...

Thu, 18 Jun 2026 19:10:00 GMT

hi,

=?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_=22Yadgar=22_Bleimann?= <yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:
> ... German wilderness infested with wolves and neo-Nazis

</lol>  I'm with Heine -- "Denk Ich an Deutschland in der Nacht ..."


> straight to Berlin

1000 Berlin 65.  used to be real nice, back when.


regards, jr.

[Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t...

Thu, 18 Jun 2026 12:59:13 GMT

Hi(gh)!

Am 15.06.26 um 12:30 schrieb jr:
> hi,
> 
> =?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_=22Yadgar=22_Bleimann?= <yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:
>> Hi(gh)!
>> ... here is what I got ...
> 
> if your mate still doesn't buy a new laptop now, idk, will you (need to) break
> arms ?!  </grin>
> 
> regards, jr.
> 

I'll jump on my bicycle, battle my way through East German wilderness 
infested with wolves and neo-Nazis straight to Berlin and bring him a 
laptop I already bought for him about three years ago!

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

[Mr] Re: how to make a blurry reflection?

Thu, 18 Jun 2026 11:45:00 GMT

Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:

> =====================================================
>
> With version 3.8 and radiosity, you can get blurred metallic reflection
> using brilliance.
> Need to add «brilliance on» in the radiosity block.
> Need the surface to have a pretty high brilliance. Typically 100 to 1000.
> This blurring seems to be similar to phong highlights : Higher value =
> more and sharper reflection.

Do you have example images of the results? I had never heard of this method
which seems awesome as it allows all other normal mapping to still be taken
advantage of, doesn't it? besides it somewhat feels physically correct... is it?

[Peter Markley] Re: Recovered old POV-Ray scenes

Wed, 17 Jun 2026 22:06:19 GMT

The premiere will be in 24 hours now! :-D

-- 
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient
1}}translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+
asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="
};#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[Peter Markley] Re: POV-Ray Mosaic Memes

Wed, 17 Jun 2026 20:40:28 GMT

On 6/17/26 10:42 AM, kurtz le pirate wrote:
> Yeah, it works... but it produces a really strange images.
> Take a look at the attached image.
Oh, I only just now noticed that some of the colors are wrong in your 
render. That's very strange.

However the fact that the face is discernible makes me think it's not a 
decoding issue in the frame data.

In fact I can reproduce your render if I change this `.4>` to `0>` (see 
attached). I don't know how that could've gotten stomped on, but that 
looks like what happened.

-- 
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient
1}}translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+
asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="
};#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[Peter Markley] Re: POV-Ray Mosaic Memes

Wed, 17 Jun 2026 20:06:00 GMT

On 6/17/26 10:42 AM, kurtz le pirate wrote:
> On 17/06/2026 12:05, jr wrote:
> I suspect that the image is hard-coded in little-endian mode.
> See <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness>

I think it's big-endian. Right here:

#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end

Each number is encoded as 2 ASCII characters and the above macro decodes 
them. The first character (`substr(h,1,1)`) after conversion to a 
codepoint is multiplied by 16, whereas the second character 
(`substr(h,2,1)`) is not. So the more significant "digit" comes first.

Unless I'm having a dyslexic moment, that's big-endian.

-- 
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient
1}}translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+
asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="
};#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[Peter Markley] Re: POV-Ray Mosaic Memes

Wed, 17 Jun 2026 20:00:36 GMT

On 6/17/26 5:50 AM, jr wrote:
> (also, it _is_ possible to format code in a readable manner ;-))

lol But where's the fun in that? :-P

My goal was compact / short code, sort of like my signature. I also 
planned to show the code onscreen in a YouTube short (see attached), and 
making it compact helps with that.

Making it technically decipherable but obscure also enhances the "wow" 
effect, like a magic trick.

-- 
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient
1}}translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+
asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="
};#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[jr] Re: POV-Ray Mosaic Memes

Wed, 17 Jun 2026 18:55:00 GMT

hi,

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> On 17/06/2026 12:05, jr wrote:
> > it does run.  I used, as always, my 'povparse' command alias to check, without
> > specifying the frames, "my bad".
>
> Yeah, it works... but it produces a really strange images.
> Take a look at the attached image.

</grin>  also, maybe it's just "my eyes", but I find the images, the method,
very sensitive to resizing, have you, anyone else, noticed ?

> I suspect that the image is hard-coded in little-endian mode.
> See <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness>

yes, the data does look "intriguing", hope to find time to look closer :-).

> As a general rule, to test scenes that include animations and avoid this
> kind of problem, simply add these lines:

thanks, as always.  for my own scenes I write ini files, usually.

regards, jr.

[kurtz le pirate] Re: POV-Ray Mosaic Memes

Wed, 17 Jun 2026 14:42:40 GMT

On 17/06/2026 12:05, jr wrote:

> 
> it does run.  I used, as always, my 'povparse' command alias to check, without
> specifying the frames, "my bad".

Yeah, it works... but it produces a really strange images.
Take a look at the attached image.
I suspect that the image is hard-coded in little-endian mode.
See <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness>

As a general rule, to test scenes that include animations and avoid this 
kind of problem, simply add these lines:

#if (clock_on)
   #local fr = frame_number-1;
#else
   #local fr = 0;
#end

;)

-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[jr] Re: POV-Ray Mosaic Memes

Wed, 17 Jun 2026 10:10:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> > └── you_are_a_toy
> is the one I decided to try first.  no dice, parse error, see attached.

it does run.  I used, as always, my 'povparse' command alias to check, without
specifying the frames, "my bad".


regards, jr.

[jr] Re: POV-Ray Mosaic Memes

Wed, 17 Jun 2026 09:55:00 GMT

hi,

Peter Markley <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> This is definitely a case where "one thing led to another ..." lol
> ...
> ZIP contents:
> ...
> └── you_are_a_toy
>      ├── povtile-frame_data.inc
>      └── you_are_a_toy.pov

is the one I decided to try first.  no dice, parse error, see attached.

(also, it _is_ possible to format code in a readable manner ;-))


regards, jr.

[Peter Markley] POV-Ray Mosaic Memes

Tue, 16 Jun 2026 23:30:13 GMT

Hello all,

This is definitely a case where "one thing led to another ..." lol

For some extra context, see this thread:
https://news.povray.org/povray.text.scene-files/thread/%3Cweb.6a26178b356cf98c595b1a7e7d5760c2%40news.povray.org%3E/

I have created a playlist of memes using a "POV-Ray mosaic" technique 
that I developed. Attached is a ZIP containing all the scenes (so far), 
and you can find renders of them here: 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgYqTYMQH9qCemP1CC1fWBQ5r4jmr1nM1

I'm not sure if I have any real right to feel as proud of this as I do. :-P

ZIP contents:

povtile_scenes
â”œâ”€â”€ diabeetus
â”‚Â Â 
â”œâ”€â”€ diabeetus.pov
â”‚Â Â 
â””â”€â”€ povtile-frame_data.inc
â”œâ”€â”€ heisenberg
â”‚Â Â 
â”œâ”€â”€ heisenberg.pov
â”‚Â Â 
â””â”€â”€ povtile-frame_data.inc
â”œâ”€â”€ hobbits_to_isengard
â”‚Â Â 
â”œâ”€â”€ hobbits_to_isengard.pov
â”‚Â Â 
â””â”€â”€ povtile-frame_data.inc
â”œâ”€â”€ myst
â”‚Â Â 
â”œâ”€â”€ myst.pov
â”‚Â Â 
â””â”€â”€ povtile-frame_data.inc
â”œâ”€â”€ untitled
â”‚Â Â 
â”œâ”€â”€ povtile-frame_data.inc
â”‚Â Â 
â””â”€â”€ untitled.pov
â”œâ”€â”€ wonka
â”‚Â Â 
â”œâ”€â”€ povtile-frame_data.inc
â”‚Â Â 
â””â”€â”€ wonka.pov
â””â”€â”€ you_are_a_toy
     â”œâ”€â”€ povtile-frame_data.inc
     â””â”€â”€ you_are_a_toy.pov


-- 
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient
1}}translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+
asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="
};#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Message preview butchered?

Tue, 16 Jun 2026 02:40:00 GMT

"Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>
> I was browsing a very old forum thread of mine (posted under a lost account
> "Quartz") and noticed the problem happening to messages there also:
>
https://news.povray.org/povray.advanced-users/thread/%3Cweb.4e5f0af057ee503f2b8e18870%40news.povray.org%3E/?mtop=4245
94
> &moff=10

And to answer your copyright question from 2011, I would guess the laws of the
USA and Australia apply, which have exceptions for Fair Use and Fair Dealing,
respectively.

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Message preview butchered?

Tue, 16 Jun 2026 02:35:00 GMT

"Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>
> I was browsing a very old forum thread of mine (posted under a lost account
> "Quartz") and noticed the problem happening to messages there also:
>
https://news.povray.org/povray.advanced-users/thread/%3Cweb.4e5f0af057ee503f2b8e18870%40news.povray.org%3E/?mtop=4245
94
> &moff=10
>
> What's telling here is that:
> 1. I don't remember experiencing this problem back then, and
> 2. The conversation seems to acknowledge the missing portions of the messages,
> as if they were still visible at the time
>
> At least for that old thread, I feel like this points toward the problem being
> merely on output/display, i.e. that the messages still exist intact in the
> website's storage.

There was a site-wide crash in March of 2021, and the problem started after
that.  Lines with non-ASCII characters disappeared in the Web view of articles
posted prior to the crash, but they still show up in Thunderbird.

> I'm not sure if that logic applies equally to new messages posted today, but
> there it is

For articles posted after the crash, the behavior has changed.  I haven't
figured out exactly when non-ASCII lines disappear and when they are retained,
but it seems to be less of a problem with the newer messages.  But I've also
just been avoiding non-ASCII characters (which feels awkward when we're
discussing Bezier curves).

[jr] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t...

Mon, 15 Jun 2026 10:35:00 GMT

hi,

=?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_=22Yadgar=22_Bleimann?= <yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:
> Hi(gh)!
> ... here is what I got ...

if your mate still doesn't buy a new laptop now, idk, will you (need to) break
arms ?!  </grin>

regards, jr.

[Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t...

Sun, 14 Jun 2026 16:40:42 GMT

Hi(gh)!

Am 13.06.26 um 18:39 schrieb Bald Eagle:

> No.
> The original function that uses select () outputs either 0 or 1.
> You feed the result into a color_map, which allows you to use rgb colors.

Ah yes, I understood... here is what I got - thank you for your help!

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

[Bald Eagle] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t...

Sat, 13 Jun 2026 16:40:00 GMT

> > You'll get solid dots with select.
>
> ...but then, again, no other colors than black and white?

No.
The original function that uses select () outputs either 0 or 1.
You feed the result into a color_map, which allows you to use rgb colors.

- BE

[Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t...

Sat, 13 Jun 2026 16:32:01 GMT

Am 13.06.26 um 17:25 schrieb Bald Eagle:

> You'll get solid dots with select.

...but then, again, no other colors than black and white?

-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

[Bald Eagle] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t...

Sat, 13 Jun 2026 15:30:00 GMT

> > In that case, you can even get rid of the select() statement.
Scratch that.   Keep the select () statement.

> I tried this, but now I get rings

You'll get solid dots with select.

- BE

[Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t...

Sat, 13 Jun 2026 13:31:32 GMT

Hi(gh)!

Am 13.06.26 um 13:57 schrieb Bald Eagle:

> Use a pigment_map. or a color_map.
> 
> In that case, you can even get rid of the select() statement.
> 
> The _maps do exactly that:  they map the output values of your function to
> colors, pigments, textures, normals, or materials.
> 
> color_map {
>    [ 0.0  rgb <0, 0, 0>]
>    [ 0.5  rgb <0, 0, 0>]
>    [ 0.5  rgb <1 ,1 ,1>]
>    [ 1.0  rgb <1 ,1 ,1>]
> }
> 
> Double entries at 0.5 give a hard transition.
> Now any value below 0.5 will be black, and any value above 0.5 will be white.

I tried this, but now I get rings rather than growing solid black dots, 
as you can see in the attachment (clock=20)!

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar




-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

[Bald Eagle] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t...

Sat, 13 Jun 2026 12:00:00 GMT

> Are you sure? If I replace them with actual color vectors, I get the
> error message "Parse Error: Expected 'operand', color
>   keyword 'rgb' found instead"!

Absolutely.

You are trying to shove a keyword and a vector into a scalar-only function that
gets parsed by the function VM.


> How can I use real colors instead?

Use a pigment_map. or a color_map.

In that case, you can even get rid of the select() statement.

The _maps do exactly that:  they map the output values of your function to
colors, pigments, textures, normals, or materials.

color_map {
  [ 0.0  rgb <0, 0, 0>]
  [ 0.5  rgb <0, 0, 0>]
  [ 0.5  rgb <1 ,1 ,1>]
  [ 1.0  rgb <1 ,1 ,1>]
}

Double entries at 0.5 give a hard transition.
Now any value below 0.5 will be black, and any value above 0.5 will be white.

- BE

[Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t...

Sat, 13 Jun 2026 11:40:02 GMT

Hi(gh)!

Am 13.06.26 um 03:03 schrieb Bald Eagle:
> 
>> Just for better understandig: what do the second and third parameters of
>> select() represent? Are they just compressed rgb vectors, i. e. black
>> and white?
> 
> Yes.  0 gets vector-promoted to rgb <0, 0, 0>, and 1 gets vector-promoted to rgb
> <1, 1, 1>
Are you sure? If I replace them with actual color vectors, I get the 
error message "Parse Error: Expected 'operand', color
  keyword 'rgb' found instead"! How can I use real colors instead?

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar


-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

[Bald Eagle] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t...

Sat, 13 Jun 2026 01:05:00 GMT

> Just for better understandig: what do the second and third parameters of
> select() represent? Are they just compressed rgb vectors, i. e. black
> and white?

Yes.  0 gets vector-promoted to rgb <0, 0, 0>, and 1 gets vector-promoted to rgb
<1, 1, 1>.

[Droj] Re: Mysterious gadget

Fri, 12 Jun 2026 23:55:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> MichaelJF <fri### [at] t-onlinede> wrote:
>
> > I googled the words on the note attached and came up with the hint to a
> > nautrigon:
> >
> >
https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/Description-Nautrigon-Directions-Use-Instrument-Solving/588224941/bd#&gid=1&
pi
> d=1
>
> Ooooh - you had more luck than I did, and that is a VERY good lead.
>
> Obviously there's a LOT more to this device than what I got.  Now I just need a
> good picture of it, and a fairly through description of how to use it.
> I did find "On an Instrument for Solving Spherical Triangles". but it would be
> more comprehensible with a diagram to accompany it.
>
> THANKS!  :)
>
> - BW

You might have a look at the link below

>>
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1878/december/brief-account-progress-art-navigation
<<

and search for 'OTHER DEVICES'. No manual how to use that thing but a hint for
what is was designed.

Droj

[Droj] Carotid-Fundalini - not a 'new disease'

Fri, 12 Jun 2026 23:20:00 GMT

Hi,

I came across this thing on Clifford Pickover's homepage hosted by J. Sprott at

<<https://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/CAROTID.HTM>>
The website contains a whole lot of interesting stuff - great for rainy days!

The C-F function is not spectacular but the result...
Here is the POV SDL - not elegant but it does want I wanted to get (now):

/*
Carotid-Fundalini 2D found at
https://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/CAROTID.HTM;

y=cos(N * x * acos(x))

x = [-1...1]
stepsize = 0.01;
*/

#version 3.7;

global_settings { assumed_gamma 2.2 }


#include "colors.inc"
#include "textures.inc"
#include "metals.inc"
#include "math.inc"


#declare X = 0;
#declare N = 30;
#declare rad = 0.005;
#declare stepsize = 0.0005;
#declare step = 1;
#declare a = sqrt(5);
#declare b = 1.0;
#declare C_FColor = rgb <0.00, 0.00, 0.00>;

#macro C_F2D(a, b, X, N, rad, stepsize, step)
  union {
   #for(i,1,N,1)
      #local C_FColor = rgb CH2RGB(degrees(i));

      #local X = -1;
   #while(X<=+1)
           sphere {<a*X, cosd(b*i * X * acosd(X)), 0>, rad
                pigment{C_FColor} finish{phong 0.5 phong_size 1.5}
           }
      #local X = X + stepsize;
   #end // while X
#end // for N
}
#end

object { C_F2D(a, b, X, N, rad, stepsize, step)
       rotate 0*x
       }

camera {
   location <0,0,-5>
   up y
   right x*image_width/image_height
   angle 54
   sky <0,1,0>
   look_at <0,0,0>
}

light_source {
    <7, 15, -100>
    color rgb <1, 1, 1>
    //shadowless
}

Should you have some other ideas to improve the SDL let me know but have a look
at the image first and read Pickover's comment.

Droj

[Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t...

Fri, 12 Jun 2026 22:00:18 GMT

Hi(gh)!

Am 12.06.26 um 21:29 schrieb Bald Eagle:

> plane {z, 0 pigment {function {select (Dots (x, y, z) - Radius, 0, 1)} } }

Just for better understandig: what do the second and third parameters of 
select() represent? Are they just compressed rgb vectors, i. e. black 
and white?

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

[Leroy] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t...

Fri, 12 Jun 2026 20:30:00 GMT

=?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_=22Yadgar=22_Bleimann?= <yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:
> Hi(gh)!
>
> As a background for an animated text imploring a dear friend to buy a
> new laptop, I want to have a white mesh2 screen with slowly growing
> black polka dots, which finally overlap until no white is visible
> anymore - but instead they just stop growing as they touch each other!
>
> Is there a way to keep them growing anyway? Or do I have to use a
> different pigment pattern?
>
> Here is the code:
>
> // begin code:
>
> /* #declare loop=div(clock,200);
> #switch(loop)
>    #case(0) */
>      #declare OuterColor=<1, 1, 1>;
>      #declare InnerColor=<0, 0, 0>;
>      #declare TranslateVector=<-0.005, -0.0035, 0>;
> /*  #break
> #end */
>
>
> mesh2
> {
>    vertex_vectors
>    {
>      4
>      <-1, 0.5, 1>, <3, 0.5, 1>, <-1, -0.5, -1>, <3, -0.5, 1>
>    }
>    face_indices
>    {
>      2
>      <0, 1, 2>, <1, 2, 3>
>    }
>    texture
>    {
>      pigment
>      {
>        cylindrical
>        rotate <90, 0, 0>
>        translate <1, 1, 0>
>        warp { repeat x*2 }
>        warp { repeat y*2 }
>        color_map
>        {
>          [0 color rgb OuterColor]
>          [1-clock/105 color rgb OuterColor]
>          [1-clock/105 color rgb InnerColor]
>          [1 color rgb InnerColor]
>        }
>      }
>      finish { ambient 1 diffuse 0 }
>      scale 0.05
>      translate clock*TranslateVector
>    }
> }
>
> camera
> {
>    orthographic
>    location <1, 0.15, -5>
>    look_at <1, 0.15, 0>
>    right <1000, 0, 0>
>    up <0, 100, 0>
>    angle 40
> }
>
> See you in Khyberspace!
>
> Yadgar
>
> Now playing: Apo 22 (Vangelis)
> --
> VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

When I first started to answer this. I thought 'scale the the pigment with the
clock'. Then I open the reply page and really looked at your code. I needed to
play with it to see what it's doing. And after many minutes this is what I came
up with

#declare A=1-clock;
plane{z,0 pigment{spherical color_map{[A,rgb 1] [A,rgb 0]}
        scale 1+clock*10
        translate <1, 1, 0>
        warp { repeat x*2 }
        warp { repeat y*2 }
     } finish{ambient 1}scale .05}

I guess you could just insert the 'scale 1+clock*10' into you code. But where
the fun in that?!:)

Have Fun!

[Bald Eagle] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t...

Fri, 12 Jun 2026 19:30:00 GMT

So, try this:

If you take your clock value and multiply it by sqrt(2), then the black will
reach all the way into the corner of each square, and will give you a fully
black texture.

- BE




#version 3.7;
global_settings{ assumed_gamma 1.0 }
#default {finish {ambient 0 diffuse 1} }


camera {
 //orthographic
 location <0,0,-50>     // position & direction of view
 look_at  <0,0,0>
 right    x*image_width/image_height
}

sky_sphere {pigment {rgb 1}}
light_source {<0, 0, -100> rgb 1}

#declare Dots = function {sqrt ( (mod(abs(x),2)-1) * (mod(abs(x),2)-1) +
(mod(abs(y),2)-1) *
(mod(abs(y),2)-1) )}


#declare Radius = sqrt(2);

plane {z, 0 pigment {function {select (Dots (x, y, z) - Radius, 0, 1)} } }

[Bald Eagle] Re: Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get t...

Fri, 12 Jun 2026 19:15:00 GMT

> I want to have a white mesh2 screen with slowly growing
> black polka dots, which finally overlap until no white is visible
> anymore - but instead they just stop growing as they touch each other!
>
> Is there a way to keep them growing anyway? Or do I have to use a
> different pigment pattern?

You need to use a different pigment pattern.
"The cylindrical pattern creates a one unit radius cylinder along the Y axis.
..... It starts at 1.0 at the origin and decreases to a minimum value of 0.0 as
it approaches a distance of 1 unit from the Y axis. It remains at 0.0 for all
areas beyond that distance."

https://wiki.povray.org/content/Reference:Cylindrical_Pattern

You probably want to use something like a
pigment { function {}} block, where you use sqrt(x*x+y*y) < Radius.
And then use your clock to change the radius
(that would give you a single growing disk)

To get around that, use sqrt (mod(x,1)*mod(x,1)+mod(y,1)*mod(y,1)) which will
make every disk repeat every unit.

But then you have to center them, using Mike Williams' repeat unit fix.
"Using mod(x,2) will cause the shape to be repeated in the x direction every 2
units. If your original isosurface
created a shape centred at the origin, then there's a problem with the way that
it chooses which bits to repeat.
The left half of the object gets repeated in one direction and the right half of
the object gets repeated in the other
direction. To fix this, we'd like to substitute mod(x,2)+1 where x is negative
and mod(x,2)-1 where x is positive. To
fix both directions at once, for a symmetrical object, we can use abs(x) like
this mod(abs(x),2)-1.
Page 17 of 149
To change the length of the repeat unit we can do this mod(abs(x),Step)-Step/2."

Which should give you:
sqrt ( (mod(abs(x),2)-1) * (mod(abs(x),2)-1) + (mod(abs(y),2)-1) *
(mod(abs(y),2)-1) )

If you just use the function value, you'll probably get a gradient.
You can use the above function to calculate a value by subtracting it from your
radius.  Use that as the first argument in a select() statement, and return 1 or
0 to get a hard white to black transition.

Hope that's understandable and helps.

- BE

[Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann] Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get the c...

Fri, 12 Jun 2026 15:32:30 GMT

Hi(gh)!

As a background for an animated text imploring a dear friend to buy a 
new laptop, I want to have a white mesh2 screen with slowly growing 
black polka dots, which finally overlap until no white is visible 
anymore - but instead they just stop growing as they touch each other!

Is there a way to keep them growing anyway? Or do I have to use a 
different pigment pattern?

Here is the code:

// begin code:

/* #declare loop=div(clock,200);
#switch(loop)
   #case(0) */
     #declare OuterColor=<1, 1, 1>;
     #declare InnerColor=<0, 0, 0>;
     #declare TranslateVector=<-0.005, -0.0035, 0>;
/*  #break
#end */


mesh2
{
   vertex_vectors
   {
     4
     <-1, 0.5, 1>, <3, 0.5, 1>, <-1, -0.5, -1>, <3, -0.5, 1>
   }
   face_indices
   {
     2
     <0, 1, 2>, <1, 2, 3>
   }
   texture
   {
     pigment
     {
       cylindrical
       rotate <90, 0, 0>
       translate <1, 1, 0>
       warp { repeat x*2 }
       warp { repeat y*2 }
       color_map
       {
         [0 color rgb OuterColor]
         [1-clock/105 color rgb OuterColor]
         [1-clock/105 color rgb InnerColor]
         [1 color rgb InnerColor]
       }
     }
     finish { ambient 1 diffuse 0 }
     scale 0.05
     translate clock*TranslateVector
   }
}

camera
{
   orthographic
   location <1, 0.15, -5>
   look_at <1, 0.15, 0>
   right <1000, 0, 0>
   up <0, 100, 0>
   angle 40
}

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

Now playing: Infinitude (Richard Vimal)
-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

[Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann] Cylindrical pattern animation - how to get the c...

Fri, 12 Jun 2026 15:10:33 GMT

Hi(gh)!

As a background for an animated text imploring a dear friend to buy a 
new laptop, I want to have a white mesh2 screen with slowly growing 
black polka dots, which finally overlap until no white is visible 
anymore - but instead they just stop growing as they touch each other!

Is there a way to keep them growing anyway? Or do I have to use a 
different pigment pattern?

Here is the code:

// begin code:

/* #declare loop=div(clock,200);
#switch(loop)
   #case(0) */
     #declare OuterColor=<1, 1, 1>;
     #declare InnerColor=<0, 0, 0>;
     #declare TranslateVector=<-0.005, -0.0035, 0>;
/*  #break
#end */


mesh2
{
   vertex_vectors
   {
     4
     <-1, 0.5, 1>, <3, 0.5, 1>, <-1, -0.5, -1>, <3, -0.5, 1>
   }
   face_indices
   {
     2
     <0, 1, 2>, <1, 2, 3>
   }
   texture
   {
     pigment
     {
       cylindrical
       rotate <90, 0, 0>
       translate <1, 1, 0>
       warp { repeat x*2 }
       warp { repeat y*2 }
       color_map
       {
         [0 color rgb OuterColor]
         [1-clock/105 color rgb OuterColor]
         [1-clock/105 color rgb InnerColor]
         [1 color rgb InnerColor]
       }
     }
     finish { ambient 1 diffuse 0 }
     scale 0.05
     translate clock*TranslateVector
   }
}

camera
{
   orthographic
   location <1, 0.15, -5>
   look_at <1, 0.15, 0>
   right <1000, 0, 0>
   up <0, 100, 0>
   angle 40
}

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

Now playing: Apo 22 (Vangelis)
-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

[MichaelJF] Re: Mysterious gadget

Fri, 12 Jun 2026 04:10:55 GMT

Am 11.06.26 um 23:40 schrieb Bald Eagle:
> MichaelJF <fri### [at] t-onlinede> wrote:
> 
>> I googled the words on the note attached and came up with the hint to a
>> nautrigon:
>>
>>
https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/Description-Nautrigon-Directions-Use-Instrument-Solving/588224941/bd#&gid=1&pi
> d=1
> 
> Ooooh - you had more luck than I did, and that is a VERY good lead.
> 
> Obviously there's a LOT more to this device than what I got.  Now I just need a
> good picture of it, and a fairly through description of how to use it.
> I did find "On an Instrument for Solving Spherical Triangles". but it would be
> more comprehensible with a diagram to accompany it.
> 
> THANKS!  :)
> 
> - BW
> 
> 
> 
After taking another closer look at the image from the link above this 
morning, I no longer believe that your device is part of a Nautrigon, 
because the Nautrigon shown in the image does not appear to have any 
circular segments covering more than 180 degrees. That was an 
interesting lead, but unfortunately, it was probably the wrong track.

However, I havenâ€™t found any other sources on the Nautrigon, and the 
original publication is a bit too expensive for me just to satisfy my 
curiosity.

Best regards
Michael

[Bald Eagle] Re: Mysterious gadget

Thu, 11 Jun 2026 21:45:00 GMT

MichaelJF <fri### [at] t-onlinede> wrote:

> I googled the words on the note attached and came up with the hint to a
> nautrigon:
>
>
https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/Description-Nautrigon-Directions-Use-Instrument-Solving/588224941/bd#&gid=1&pi
d=1

Ooooh - you had more luck than I did, and that is a VERY good lead.

Obviously there's a LOT more to this device than what I got.  Now I just need a
good picture of it, and a fairly through description of how to use it.
I did find "On an Instrument for Solving Spherical Triangles". but it would be
more comprehensible with a diagram to accompany it.

THANKS!  :)

- BW

[MichaelJF] Re: Mysterious gadget

Thu, 11 Jun 2026 19:14:17 GMT

Am 11.06.26 um 12:51 schrieb Bald Eagle:
> I acquired this interesting device as part of a lot of tools (in every sense of
> the words) and have yet to determine how it is used.
> 
> It is labeled "mechanical solution of spherical triangles"
> 
> And search as I might, I have found nothing on the interwebs that shows a
> similar device or explains how it might be used.
> 
> The attachments are simply clamped onto the edge, like a caliper.
> I have no idea if there were any more parts intended to go along with it.
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas?
I googled the words on the note attached and came up with the hint to a 
nautrigon:

https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/Description-Nautrigon-Directions-Use-Instrument-Solving/588224941/bd#&gid=1&pid=1

Best regards
Michael

[ingo] Re: NVIDIA vulkan and POV-Ray

Thu, 11 Jun 2026 15:37:08 GMT

Do you mean as in ray marching, sphere tracing using the SDF of the 
shape? Or classic ray tracing?

I made a little ray-tracer that does the classic way as well as the 
sphere marching on cpu using the same scene file but different back end. 
There are noticeable differences in quality. (diff and compare done with 
imagemagick)

I've yet to use the GPU/vulkan as a back end for both. The goal is to 
have different back-ends as a "plug in".

Like your rewrite project.

ingo

On 2026-06-09 19:32, OscarChavarro wrote:
> The scene primitives themselves do not necessarily need to be
> converted into polygons; their ray-intersection routines can be implemented
> directly on the GPU and executed by the shader/CUDA cores. Vulkan API 1.4
> extensions are capable of supporting this kind of architecture.

[Cossack ] Texture Viewer: Work in Progress

Thu, 11 Jun 2026 12:10:00 GMT

I'm creating a macro for viewing and testing textures. I'm still a beginner, so
please excuse the messy code.

#include "colors.inc"
 #include "textures.inc"
  #include "shapes3.inc"
#include "shapes.inc"
 #include "logo.inc"

camera {
         location <1,1.5,-3>
          look_at <0,1,0>
   }
light_source {
        <1000,1000,-1000> color rgb 1
 }
light_source {
        <2,3,-10> color rgb 1
}

////////////// logo pigment ////////////
#declare Tex_Sphere_Background = texture {
    Polished_Chrome
     normal { bumps 0.1 scale 0.001 }
}

#declare Tex_Sphere_Logo = texture {
   Polished_Chrome
    pigment {Red}
     normal { dents 0.5 scale 0.02 }
   finish { reflection 0.7 metallic }
 }

 #declare Metal_Logo_Texture = texture {
     object {
      Povray_Logo_Prism
       scale <0.5, 0.5, 10> * 0.5
        translate <0,0, -1>
      texture { Tex_Sphere_Background }
       texture { Tex_Sphere_Logo }
     }
   }
    //////////////////////////////////////

      plane {
               y,0
                pigment {
                         checker
                color rgb 1
                Gray
         }
  }

    #declare F =

      difference {
               sphere {
                        <0,0,0>,1
                pigment{Red}
                translate <0,0,0>
         }
        sphere {
                 <0,0,0>0.8
                  pigment {Blue}
                   normal {bumps 0.5 scale 0.001}
                scale <1,1,0.5> * 0.7
                 translate <0,0,-1>
          }

 }
  #declare Fq =
   union{
            object {F}
        sphere {<0,0,0> 0.925
         //texture {Polished_Chrome  normal {bumps 0.1 scale 0.001}}}
          texture {Metal_Logo_Texture
                     }

     }

       };

 object{ Round_Pyramid_N_out(
             8 , // number of side faces
              <0,0.325,0>, 0.40,// A, R_out_A,
                   <0,-0.1,0>, 0.70,// B, R_out_B,
            0.1, // border radius
           1, // 1 = filled, 0 = wire
            1  // 0 = union, 1 = merge
          ) //-------------------------------------
        texture{ pigment{ rgb<1,1,1> }
                  finish { phong 1 }
                 } // end of texture --------------
         } // end of object //----------------------

           object{ Round_N_Tube_Polygon( 8, // N,
                                  0.1, // Tube_R,
                                  0.85, // Base_Width,
                           0.25, // Edge_R
                               1, // Filled,
                                1, // Merge_On
                               ) //------------
        texture{ pigment{ color rgbf<1,1,0,0>}
                 finish { phong 1
                           }
                } // end of texture
          scale 0.89
        rotate <90,0,0>
        translate<0,0,0>
       } // end of object ----------------------

   object {
        Fq
        rotate <25,-45,0>
         translate <0,1,0>
}

[Bald Eagle] Mysterious gadget

Thu, 11 Jun 2026 10:55:00 GMT

I acquired this interesting device as part of a lot of tools (in every sense of
the words) and have yet to determine how it is used.

It is labeled "mechanical solution of spherical triangles"

And search as I might, I have found nothing on the interwebs that shows a
similar device or explains how it might be used.

The attachments are simply clamped onto the edge, like a caliper.
I have no idea if there were any more parts intended to go along with it.

Does anyone have any ideas?

[Peter Markley] Re: POV-Ray Code As Signature

Wed, 10 Jun 2026 22:42:18 GMT

On 6/9/26 8:58 PM, Bald Eagle wrote:
> You're a total psychopath.
> And you completely belong here. :D
To that, all I can say is:


/* Render at 500x500 */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 2.2}
#local tx=texture{bozo texture_map{[.4 pigment{granite pigment_map
{[0 rgb 0][.3 rgb <.43,.14,.1>][.6 rgb <.77,.6,.58>][.7 rgb 1]}
scale 4}finish {ambient 1}][0.55 pigment{granite pigment_map {[0.1
rgb 0][.5 rgb<.28,.06,.4>][.51 rgb<.23,.08,0>][.8 rgb<.54,.29,.25>]}
scale 7}finish{ambient 1}]}};#macro B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{bozo
texture_map{[.3 tx scale .04][.4 tx scale .2][.5 tx scale .2][.6 tx
scale 5][.7 tx scale 5][.8 tx scale 10]}scale 10 translate<-c,0,-d>}
translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+asc(substr
(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,10>direction-y right
x*20 up z*20}#local s=array[80]{
"7;597;59547;537:6749","6749665:406>4222546:","46263;41555?53255<49",
"7:6:5379251<557:013?","7;597;591;3<537:6749","67492=255369426>4620",
"64506:447;687:567;56","62456?69706930427<12","7;597;59547;53796749",
"281<49692:5;6:447568","6;446:43694203496442","7:5366427<546=6;3241",
"547:7;591;3<6>6;5=0?","2452766974686943032>","7;5;5222547<6653696;",
"091?091?664262451232","7;597;591;3<307>664:","386055766:434:3<211<",
"1=1:2=1148353009102<","350:5962717?084:635;","7;59547;7<5953796849",
"7>686:43775:416=2832","2>0?383:3212700;6<01","632<7;6:547<62596458",
"7;597;591;3<6>6<655:","766=6;47625:23115:22","3<3:383;756:2;0>7;0>",
"632<55796>6:6:446644","7;59537:547;6>6<655:","446=655;4>3>77081818",
"3;254;33536<4=664=66","4<67327>747<707<7858","7:59537:33411<3;1?1:",
"22182;2527524?65766=","2=063=224<525749132<","786;327>675062447858",
"1;3<24332=222:242>15","2:1439476949644;642=","69063=22151946663009",
"30047<597=5:4?62537<","1232706;22162<144?4?","55370=2<12336;09112;",
"290?546=614?0>363?25","6=006;457858094:053<","6=4>75414?4?08471>70",
"66534670285558113?25","30015050655752782608","5=4;5:4:557;084=084:",
"095:7473035253165379","664:4;336751263;2?6:","632<62077<5;63454?1<",
"141=7=694?5<084<5278","74747474085258785379","5=0?2>2;691;7959622<",
"330<535=2?6;1;123>16","28547<577166696;0<21","047?0319013:5279654:",
"4969665:6=687<580?35","64473004280<612>3=22","6;444?62094>2>2;0?34",
"031<023<0;016=6<654:","4969645854795578033>","0?3527116913770>5?1=",
"634324341=3=2=2<6?65","041=05242?0:6=6<5379","5379684:5478557:4129",
"4=0?4<23684469447<57","2?7?1<3<5379137>7=41","5843163=1;3<79585378",
"54792>0=2>011=513061","723=7<401>2>2:48664<","067>53792?1>15281;3<",
"041=01161;3<79581>51","6875422;7:281=4;2749","36146569645925171?4:",
"1;3=6227537:7<592?01","023:01167?0>7?0>7970","697175740<4?11323<3>",
"635;547;11727169317=","5377537:7;593<3>1112"};
#for(b,0,19)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(19-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[jr] Re: how to make a blurry reflection?

Wed, 10 Jun 2026 08:00:00 GMT

hi,

"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I ran some comparison tests of two of the blur methods ...
> I was surprised to see ...
> Both methods produce a nice blur; the only real difference is render time ...

thank you for the "investigation", summarising, and the scene code.  neat.  I'd
like to see this knowledge, the information, go into the corresponding HowTo[*]
article, to extend and improve that.  would you be willing (have the time ?) to
provide "content" ?

[*] <wiki.povray.org/content/HowTo:Manual_focal_blur>

regards, jr.

[Bald Eagle] Re: POV-Ray Code As Signature

Wed, 10 Jun 2026 01:00:00 GMT

Peter Markley <nomail@nomail> wrote:

> BE, spoiler warning if you still want to reverse-engineer it...! :-)

Ha ha!
That would be like reversing pov-ray's turbulence algorithm.

You're a total psychopath.
And you completely belong here. :D

I greatly look forward to seeing more of the graphic expression of your mental
illness, and hope to be inspired and learn a great deal from your participation
in our little esoteric corner of the internet.

- BE

[Peter Markley] Re: POV-Ray Code As Signature

Wed, 10 Jun 2026 00:27:49 GMT

On 6/9/26 7:38 PM, Leroy wrote:
> I accidently render it at 600 by 100 and it looked better!
> It's real funky how did you come with IT?
BE, spoiler warning if you still want to reverse-engineer it...! :-)

I took the literal signature I already use in my pre-existing brand 
imagery (visible at https://petermarkley.com and on various social 
profiles), and decided to recreate it as a mosaic using tiles of 
POV-Ray's granite texture.

I rendered a huge image of the granite texture and "vibe-coded" an 
OpenCV Python script that matched pieces of it to pieces of the 
reference image by visual similarity. This Python script gave me a list 
of these texture-space coordinates, ordered by source tile.

 From there it was a matter of encoding the coordinates in a way that 
was both compact and easily readable in POV-Ray. That's why in the code 
there's 8 lines of dense random ASCII strings. Then for each tile, the 
POV-Ray scene finds and decodes its texture-space coordinates, and 
translates the granite texture to that point.

The result reminds me of a Magna-Doodle when you look at them up close, 
because of the grainy pigment splotches separated into cells.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Doodle

-- 
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient
1}}translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+
asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="
};#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[Kenneth] Re: how to make a blurry reflection?

Tue, 9 Jun 2026 23:50:00 GMT

"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> As an added bonus, the averaged-normals method does not 'blur' phong/specular
> highlights.
>

Sorry, I was mistaken; some further tests show that those highlights *do* appear
to be blurred. It's somewhat difficult to see, depending on the amount of
blurring used and the size of the highlight.

[Leroy] Re: POV-Ray Code As Signature

Tue, 9 Jun 2026 23:40:00 GMT

"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > I mentioned this here already:
> > >
https://news.povray.org/povray.off-topic/thread/%3Cweb.681a65007e5af26422e4b3f730225ff5%40news.povray.org%3E/?mto
p=
> 44
> > 7843&moff=10
> >
> > But I thought I'd share it properly as its own thread. I saw Francois Labreque's
> > "short code" style signature and was inspired to make my own.
> >
> > Mine's a lot more clumsy and is too long for the signature feature on the
> > povray.org web interface. But I like it :-)
> >
>
> Great! Now, I HAVE to render it and find out what's what:}
>
> Have Fun!

I accidently render it at 600 by 100 and it looked better!
It's real funky how did you come with IT?

Have fun!

[OscarChavarro] Re: NVIDIA vulkan and POV-Ray

Tue, 9 Jun 2026 17:35:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
>
> > > I keep on watching the speed at which real time GPU ray tracing / light
> > > transport technology advances.
> > > It seems quite amazing.
>
> > GPU render assume that everything will use the same code : The code for
> > a mesh of polygons. That assumption comes from the obligation to use the
> > same code for all cores.
> > POV Ray use many primitives. All of the primitives need to use their own
> > code. So, a GPU version of POV Ray could only deal with one primitive
> > type at a time. Render all the spheres, then, render all the boxes, then
> > the torus, then the cones and cylinders, then...
>
> Well that, or code a fork that converts all the primitives into polygon meshes
> before rendering.  Or just add in mesh alternatives for all of the primitives in
> case someone wants to use them...  It probably can't be that hard to copy most
> of the primitives into macro-driven mesh alternatives, especially since most of
> them could just be rendered as parametric surfaces that are made with triangle{}
> or mesh{} or mesh2{} objects, not the parametric{}.   Then you could just use
> the same macro code and pass in the relevant equations for x, y, and z as
> arguments.

If you had asked me this back in 2022, my answer would have been: "Yes, it is
technically possible, but it would be extremely expensive. It would require a
significant amount of engineering effort, and experienced graphics programmers
are not cheap."

It is important to note that modern GPUs can use RT Cores to accelerate Bounding
Volume Hierarchies (BVHs), including structures based on Axis-Aligned Bounding
Boxes (AABBs). The scene primitives themselves do not necessarily need to be
converted into polygons; their ray-intersection routines can be implemented
directly on the GPU and executed by the shader/CUDA cores. Vulkan API 1.4
extensions are capable of supporting this kind of architecture.

Today, in 2026, the situation is different. AI-assisted and agentic programming
can dramatically reduce development costs and accelerate implementation. What
previously required a large team of highly specialized engineers may now be
achievable by a small group of volunteers or enthusiasts.

I plan to experiment with these ideas in my spare time using POV-Ray 1, since
its codebase is much smaller and easier to understand:

https://github.com/OscarChavarro/povCpp

That said, if I continue working on it alone, it will likely still take several
months to produce meaningful results. Let's see what I can do for a proof of
concept.

[Kenneth] Re: how to make a blurry reflection?

Tue, 9 Jun 2026 17:30:00 GMT

I ran some comparison tests of two of the blur methods-- averaging full TEXTURES
vs. simpler averaged NORMALS in a single texture. I had never achieved decent
results with the latter method, until I realized that strong antialiasing was
*required* to eliminate its 'noisy' appearance. For both methods, I used a very
small-scaled 'bumps' pattern; 'granite' looks a bit better but is slower to
render.

(For the averaged-textures method, I also used max_trace_level 4 in
global_settings; the default is 5, but higher values really slow down the render
when there are other reflective objects in a scene.)

I was surprised to see that the averaged-normals method looks OK when using only
one normal (or two or three averaged copies at most.) A normal can be thought of
as a grayscale pattern (either 0.0 to 1.0 or -0.5 to +0.5 ?)-- and averaging a
lot of offset copies really just 'smooths them out' to a flat median value.
.....which looks almost like no normal effect at all. The averaged-TEXTURES
method-- even though it uses multiple averaged normals as well-- is a different
situation, because it creates averaged *reflections* too.

Both methods produce a nice blur; the only real difference is render time-- and
the averaged-textures method does not necessarily need antialiasing, depending
on the number of textures used. But if you are going to use AA anyway, the
averaged-normals method is faster. (For its AA, I used the default Method 1,
with Antialias_Threshold 0.1 and Antialias_Depth 8. The current 3.8 betas have a
new AA Method 3, which looks better and is faster.)  As an added bonus, the
averaged-normals method does not 'blur' phong/specular highlights.

For the averaged-textures method, Alain's suggestion of using TWO overlapping
objects for the blurred sphere (the primary one with with no_reflection, the 2nd
one with no blur  and no_image) is an excellent one-- it vastly speeds up the
render (when there are other reflective objects in the scene), even though the
blurred object shows up on the other objects as non-blurred. That is not very
noticeable IMO, unless you are specifically looking for it.  The averaged
NORMALS method does not really need this trick (or the restricted
max_trace_level value) since it uses only *one* reflective texture, regardless
of its multiple normals.

--------------------------
I used the following values for both test methods:
#declare Norm_Scale = .0001;
#declare Blur_Softness = .35; // how 'smeared out' the blurring is
#declare Multiplier = 60; // 60 for A), 3 or even 1 for B)
#declare S = seed(13);

#declare TEX_1 =
texture{
     pigment {rgb .8}
     finish {ambient 0 emission 0 diffuse .2  reflection .7
             phong 1 phong_size 14}
       }


A)  Averaged TEXTURES example:
#declare C = 1;
sphere{0,1
   texture{
      average
      texture_map{
      #while(C <= Multiplier)
          [1
          TEX_1
          normal{
              bumps
              scale Norm_Scale
              bump_size Blur_Softness
              translate <rand(S),rand(S),rand(S)>*10
                }
          ]
     #declare C = C+1;
     #end
                }
          }
       }


B) Averaged NORMALS example:
#declare C = 1;
sphere{0,1
texture{TEX_1}
    normal{
       average
       normal_map{
       #while(C <= Multiplier)
          [1
          bumps
          bump_size Blur_Softness
          scale Norm_Scale
          translate <rand(S),rand(S),rand(S)>*10
          ]
       #declare C = C+1;
       #end
                 }
          }
   }

[Peter Markley] Re: POV-Ray Code As Signature

Tue, 9 Jun 2026 16:37:30 GMT

On 6/9/26 7:44 AM, Bald Eagle wrote:
> "Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>> I saw Francois Labreque's
>> "short code" style signature and was inspired to make my own.
> 
> Damn.   This is second only to Warp's ridiculously obfuscated signature.
> 
> Well done.
> 
> I haven't had the time to sit, focus, and reverse-engineer it, but this is very
> cool!
> 
> - BE
> 

Aw, thanks! You're very kind :-)

-- 
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient
1}}translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+
asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="
};#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[Bald Eagle] Re: POV-Ray Code As Signature

Tue, 9 Jun 2026 11:45:00 GMT

"Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> I saw Francois Labreque's
> "short code" style signature and was inspired to make my own.

Damn.   This is second only to Warp's ridiculously obfuscated signature.

Well done.

I haven't had the time to sit, focus, and reverse-engineer it, but this is very
cool!

- BE

[Leroy] Re: POV-Ray Code As Signature

Mon, 8 Jun 2026 18:45:00 GMT

"Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> I mentioned this here already:
> >
https://news.povray.org/povray.off-topic/thread/%3Cweb.681a65007e5af26422e4b3f730225ff5%40news.povray.org%3E/?mtop=
44
> 7843&moff=10
>
> But I thought I'd share it properly as its own thread. I saw Francois Labreque's
> "short code" style signature and was inspired to make my own.
>
> Mine's a lot more clumsy and is too long for the signature feature on the
> povray.org web interface. But I like it :-)
>

Great! Now, I HAVE to render it and find out what's what:}

Have Fun!

[Peter Markley] POV-Ray Code As Signature

Mon, 8 Jun 2026 01:20:00 GMT

I mentioned this here already:
>
https://news.povray.org/povray.off-topic/thread/%3Cweb.681a65007e5af26422e4b3f730225ff5%40news.povray.org%3E/?mtop=44
7843&moff=10

But I thought I'd share it properly as its own thread. I saw Francois Labreque's
"short code" style signature and was inspired to make my own.

Mine's a lot more clumsy and is too long for the signature feature on the
povray.org web interface. But I like it :-)

--
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient
1}}translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+
asc(substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="
};#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr
(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[Peter Markley] Re: Where are all the Povrayers?

Sun, 7 Jun 2026 21:54:15 GMT

On 5/15/25 8:17 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
> -- 
> /*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
> /*    flabreque    */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
> /*        @        */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
> /*   gmail.com     */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }

Francois's signature inspired me :-P Mine's not as subtle or elegant, 
but I like it

-- 
/* https://petermarkley.com | (Render at 1280x384) */
#version 3.7;global_settings{assumed_gamma 1}#macro
B(a,b,c,d)box{-y,x+z texture{pigment{granite pigment_map{
[.2 rgb 0][.3 rgb 1]}scale 4 translate<-c,0,-d>}finish{ambient 1}}
translate<a,0,b>}#end#macro C(h)(asc(substr(h,1,1))-48)*16+asc(
substr(h,2,1))-48#end camera{orthographic location<10,9,3>
direction-y right x*20 up z*6}#local s=array[24]{
"0:445<5251750:444;44","7<750<796853733;367:","4=7?2=774150010>3?46",
"3:762>00186733724=7?","1>601>04100937700<16","7340564>57034>35021?",
"334=7:74564>444>470<","520?403:716611536;32","067<622?194>602>622?",
"7>4<3=672>154=7?4665","1?5=792>444>15207779","2<3679034=7?2>003372",
"28337266622465364854","312;70201<6:69511?5=","72663?713;5<764:4546",
"7;0=43036:4:1?753423","595<000>792>70147320","7?440;026?643=674223",
"7;221<3:7=5>595=146?","595=3=6701365?4?4?3<","404431765:274;054658",
"467626792<32267=597=","3:7658554;0560764=28","4?7<77136?232>15520="};
#for(b,0,5)#for(a,0,19)#local i=(5-b)*4+floor(a/5);B(a,b,C(substr(
s[i],mod(a,5)*4+1,2)),C(substr(s[i],mod(a,5)*4+3,2)))#end#end

[Peter Markley] Re: Message preview butchered?

Sun, 7 Jun 2026 00:39:18 GMT

On 6/6/26 6:32 PM, Bald Eagle wrote:
> We're all here to help.
> 
> Welcome back to the POV-Ray community!
> 
> Looking forward to your YT video, and many fun projects and renders.
> 
> - BE
Thank you! :-D

--
https://petermarkley.com

[Bald Eagle] Re: Message preview butchered?

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 22:35:00 GMT

We're all here to help.

Welcome back to the POV-Ray community!

Looking forward to your YT video, and many fun projects and renders.

- BE

[Peter Markley] Re: Message preview butchered?

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 21:21:04 GMT

On 6/6/26 5:12 PM, Peter Markley wrote:
> =======
>  Â  ðŸ™ƒ
> =======
> 
> I believe this will succeed to post in the Newsgroup intact, so that 
> Thunderbird sees the emoji but the web interface does not.
Okay ... well ... It shows up correctly in the web interface

That either suggests there's some difference between how the 2011 
message is stored or displayed vs. this new one, or else I'm just way 
off track in general.

As a last test, let me try a few other char types in case it's the 
choice of emoji ...

Typographical apostrophe:
=====
Itâ€™s
=====

Typographical quotes:
=====
â€œItsâ€
=====

Copyright symbol:
=====
   Â©
=====

-- 
https://petermarkley.com

[Peter Markley] Re: Message preview butchered?

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 21:12:23 GMT

On 6/6/26 10:18 AM, Peter Markley wrote:
> "Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
>> Someone using Thunderbird or Chris Cason would have to investigate and determine
>> what the exact problem is.
> 
> I was browsing a very old forum thread of mine (posted under a lost account
> "Quartz") and noticed the problem happening to messages there also:
>
https://news.povray.org/povray.advanced-users/thread/%3Cweb.4e5f0af057ee503f2b8e18870%40news.povray.org%3E/?mtop=424594
> &moff=10

I just loaded things in Thunderbird.

   1. My 2nd message on this thread is still missing the line that says 
"what does or doesn't trigger it" (presumably thanks to the 
typographical apostrophe in "doesn't")

   2. My old messages from 2011 mentioned above are INTACT when viewed 
with Thunderbird. See attached screenshot comparing Thunderbird vs. web view

I believe this is because the problem is currently affecting both input 
and output on the web interface. (This is evident because when you press 
"preview message" any lines with UTF-8 chars are erased even before 
anything is posted/stored, then if you press "edit message" to re-open 
the edit dialog the lines are still gone--in the exact field where you 
typed them moments before.)

If my hypothesis is true, this means UTF-8 input is still possible when 
posting a message via Thunderbird.

As a test, here's a line with an upside-down face emoji (U+1F643), 
enclosed between two chains of equals signs:

=======
   ðŸ™ƒ
=======

I believe this will succeed to post in the Newsgroup intact, so that 
Thunderbird sees the emoji but the web interface does not.

--
https://petermarkley.com

[Peter Markley] Re: Popularization of the POV-Ray program on Tik...

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 16:10:00 GMT

"Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> * generally, using the below tags could federate and ease the virality:
>
> #POVRay
> #RetroCGI
> #3DRender
> #OldSchoolCGI
> #FractalArt
> #GenerativeArt
>
> * Join Broader Communities: Post your work in the
> #3DArtists
> #DigitalArt
>
> * Is there any challenge worth contributing to? These might be a fit:
>
> #RetroCGIChallenge
> #LowPolyArt
> #FractalFriday
>
> * When using Nostalgia & "Retro-Future" Aesthetic:
> #Y2K
> #AnalogHorror"
> #RetroCGI

I happened to notice this artist on Instagram using POV-Ray with the hashtag
'#vaporwaveart': https://www.instagram.com/rgbsphere

Here's some more info I found on the term "vaporwave":
https://cari.institute/aesthetics/vaporwave

--
https://petermarkley.com

[Peter Markley] Re: Where are all the Povrayers?

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 15:30:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> There's a Discord server that a guy set up.
> https://discord.com/channels/1314335502870118423/1319503858078318592

That link doesn't work for me ... :,-(

I would love to find this POV-Ray Discord server since I use Discord regularly

[Cousin Ricky] Re: Light bleed include file

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 15:10:45 GMT

On 2026-05-10 10:18 (-4), jr wrote:
> 
> fwiw, I (really :-)) like the design of the 'LtBl__Image_map()' macro, food for
> thought..

I got the idea from Chris Bartlett.  He uses this trick in several of
his Object Collection contributions.

[Peter Markley] Re: Where are all the Povrayers?

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 15:10:00 GMT

My dad taught me POV-Ray when I was 7 years old, in 2000. Started using it
heavily between 2003-2007. I still use it occasionally but I confess the
"B-thing" has largely replaced it for me in practice. The last significant
POV-Ray work I did was probably around 2015

(I tried Blender back in 2005 or 2006 and it SUCKED. I retreated to POV-Ray as
my refuge! How the tables have turned now ...)

I followed Martin and Ricky on Bluesky. Here's mine:
https://bsky.app/profile/petermarkley.com

My other socials can be found on my portfolio site:
https://petermarkley.com/contact/

[Peter Markley] Re: Message preview butchered?

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 14:20:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> it's unclear whether the messages on the server that appear
> to have missing portions are in fact intact when
> viewed with a newsreader such as Thunderbird.
>
> Someone using Thunderbird or Chris Cason would have to investigate and determine
> what the exact problem is.
>
> - BE

Actually I may have just found another useful clue.

I was browsing a very old forum thread of mine (posted under a lost account
"Quartz") and noticed the problem happening to messages there also:
https://news.povray.org/povray.advanced-users/thread/%3Cweb.4e5f0af057ee503f2b8e18870%40news.povray.org%3E/?mtop=424594
&moff=10

What's telling here is that:
1. I don't remember experiencing this problem back then, and
2. The conversation seems to acknowledge the missing portions of the messages,
as if they were still visible at the time

At least for that old thread, I feel like this points toward the problem being
merely on output/display, i.e. that the messages still exist intact in the
website's storage.

I'm not sure if that logic applies equally to new messages posted today, but
there it is

[Peter Markley] Re: Recovered old POV-Ray scenes

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 13:35:00 GMT

(I tried to include the video thumbnail as an attachment, I think it dropped off
when I edited my message...)

[Peter Markley] Re: Message preview butchered?

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 13:30:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> The problem was usually when utf-8 character sets were trying to be displayed in
> the web-browser.
>
> Just curious what happens if you copy your message, paste into a plain text
> editor to scrub UTF-8 and substitute with plain ASCII, and then copy THAT text
> and paste back into the we message editor and then preview.
>
> - BE

Oh my goodness, THANK YOU! That does the trick

I was using a mobile keyboard that by default inserts typographical marks
instead of ASCII, so literally anything I typed that had an apostrophe or
quotation mark would get stomped on.

It was very confusing and distressing and I'm not sure I could have figured it
out without your tip!

[Peter Markley] Recovered old POV-Ray scenes

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 13:30:00 GMT

Hi all,

I've been a POV-Ray user since I was 7 years old, and recently we uncovered an
old archive disk that had my earliest scenes on it!

My dad was writing his own raytracer in 1987 on a MicroVAX I. In addition to the
archive disk, we also recovered an old Betamax tape of his work from that time
period.

I recorded an interview where he and I discussed all of this and showcased the
recovered artwork. It's going to premiere on my YouTube channel on June 18
(loosely in honor of Father's Day).

I hope it's okay if I share the YouTube link here: https://youtu.be/MXErvBZ3CGI

The video features a huge amount of my old POV-Ray work, spanning from 2000 to
2007. When it premieres I'd love to hear what you all think! :-D

[Bald Eagle] Re: Message preview butchered?

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 10:25:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > "Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > > The preview button erases huge portions of whatever I type.

> there used to be problems with accented letters and such, but I have not yet
> lost "portions of whatever I type".

The problem was usually when utf-8 character sets were trying to be displayed in
the web-browser.

I myself have experienced this issue, however, it's unclear whether the messages
on the server that appear to have missing portions are in fact intact when
viewed with a newsreader such as Thunderbird.

Someone using Thunderbird or Chris Cason would have to investigate and determine
what the exact problem is.

Just curious what happens if you copy your message, paste into a plain text
editor to scrub UTF-8 and substitute with plain ASCII, and then copy THAT text
and paste back into the we message editor and then preview.

- BE

[jr] Re: Message preview butchered?

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 07:10:00 GMT

hi,

"Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> "Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > The preview button erases huge portions of whatever I type. Help
>
> Testing one two three. This is a test because my confidence as a user is
> extremely undermined right now and as a desperate coping mechanism I am
> investigating and studying the problem behavior to gain more knowledge about
> in how to use the system and accomplish my goals

there used to be problems with accented letters and such, but I have not yet
lost "portions of whatever I type".  fingers crossed your problem was local and
temporary.


regards, jr.

[Peter Markley] Re: Message preview butchered?

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 06:20:00 GMT

"Peter Markley" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> The preview button erases huge portions of whatever I type. Help

Testing one two three. This is a test because my confidence as a user is
extremely undermined right now and as a desperate coping mechanism I am
investigating and studying the problem behavior to gain more knowledge about
in how to use the system and accomplish my goals

[Peter Markley] Message preview butchered?

Sat, 6 Jun 2026 06:05:00 GMT

The preview button erases huge portions of whatever I type. Help

[Bald Eagle] Re: Terms in scene description language

Thu, 4 Jun 2026 10:40:00 GMT

Also keep in mind that you're going to have a devil of time searching for things
like Boolean "and", "or", and keywords with underscores (binary operations,
etc).

Numeric expressions is a good page for the math stuff.
Strings for text stuff.

If you have specific questions that simple searches don't answer, feel free to
ask, and we'll do what we can to get you squared away.

- BE

[ingo] Re: Terms in scene description language

Thu, 4 Jun 2026 09:35:00 GMT

"jsampson45" <jrs### [at] ntlworldcom> wrote:
> Is there a searchable dictionary of terms in scene description language such as
> "object"? Google searches produce hits on "object" but not the definition and
> usage of the word in SDL.


https://wiki.povray.org/content/Reference:Keywords

ingo

[jsampson45] Terms in scene description language

Thu, 4 Jun 2026 09:05:00 GMT

Is there a searchable dictionary of terms in scene description language such as
"object"? Google searches produce hits on "object" but not the definition and
usage of the word in SDL.

[Bald Eagle] Re: Made from a Coons patch

Tue, 2 Jun 2026 22:00:00 GMT

"Tor Olav Kristensen" <tor### [at] TOBEREMOVEDgmailcom> wrote:
> there are three interpolations going on: one linear
> between one pair of opposing boundary curves, one linear between
> the other pair of opposing boundary curves, and one bilinear
> between the four corner points. Then the last one is subtracted
> from the sum of the first two to prevent double counting the
> corners.

Excellent.
My code for rendering a Coons patch does exactly that.

> > And of course, it's then trivial to calculate the mean and Gaussian curvature of
> > the surface at any point.
>
> I am afraid you are a bit ahead of me when it comes to those
> curvature calculations. It would be nice to have a function
> controlled pigment that shows the curvature across the surface.
> to see how you would implement that.

See attached.  Let me know if you need any references to explain how to
calculate the curvature.

> In fact,
> while writing this, I realized myself that the number of control
> points along opposing edges doesn't even need to be the same to
> begin with.

Yes, since we can interpolate along any edge, I would agree that the degree of
any Bezier curve describing an edge is irrelevant.

I am very interested in using the curvature to modulate a texture for purposes
similar to proximity patterns.  I know that there is an excellent ShaderToy
shader that demonstrates this.

I also think that using curvature to control "attractors" (discussed in another
recent thread) would be a very interesting application.

Also, there was a discussion about using patches and cubes to distort an object,
and I think it would be interesting to explore the possibility of using a patch
to distort a pattern mapped to a unit square.  I suppose that it would have to
be the inverse mapping of the unit square to the patch . . .

And you are right, this kind of thing is fun.
Regardless of the people who question our unique idea of "fun"  ;)

- BW

[Tor Olav Kristensen] Re: Made from a Coons patch

Tue, 2 Jun 2026 01:10:00 GMT

"Tor Olav Kristensen" <tor### [at] TOBEREMOVEDgmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> An alternative way of doing it is to degree elevate the Bezier
> curves along each edge, so that the polynomials for each pair
> of opposing edges are the same.
>...

Sorry. Replace "are the same" with "have the same degree".

--
Tor Olav
http://subcube.com
https://github.com/t-o-k

[Tor Olav Kristensen] Re: Made from a Coons patch

Tue, 2 Jun 2026 01:00:00 GMT

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Tor Olav Kristensen" <tor### [at] TOBEREMOVEDgmailcom> wrote:
> > I recently stumbled upon a web course on CAGD by Leonardo Fernandez-Jambrina and
> >
> > https://dcain.etsin.upm.es/~leonardo/eindex.html
>
> Nice.  I've seen that page before - I just haven't had time to delve into that
> topic again in any meaningful depth.
>
> > What caught my attention was chapter 6, where Coons patches are explained.
> >
> > I found it interesting that if a Coons patch is made by Bezier curves
> > along its edges, then one can make a Bezier control grid for the same
> > patch by doing degree elevation on its control grids.
>
> So that you have a subdivided patch . . . It's not instantly obvious why that's
> necessary.  Where does one stop subdividing / degree-elevating?

In a Coons patch with Bezier curves as edges, the degrees of the
interpolating polynomials along the edges depend on the number of
control points along each edge.

After that, there are three interpolations going on: one linear
between one pair of opposing boundary curves, one linear between
the other pair of opposing boundary curves, and one bilinear
between the four corner points. Then the last one is subtracted
from the sum of the first two to prevent double counting the
corners.

An alternative way of doing it is to degree elevate the Bezier
curves along each edge, so that the polynomials for each pair
of opposing edges are the same. This also makes the number of
control points along opposing edges the same. Then, one degree
elevates the grids formed by each pair of these control points
so that the number of control points matches the grid dimensions
of the other pair of edges. Thereafter, one degree elevates the
2x2 grid of control points in the corners to the same final grid
dimensions, allowing the control points of the three control
grids to be added and subtracted directly.

I've made an image (attached) that illustrates this alternative
way ofdoing it. (The arrows in it indicates degree elevations.)
Note that here the number of control points along each pair of
edges is already the same, but it does not need to be so. If it
is not, one has to do degree elevation on the lower-degree edge
curves first, until opposing edges have matching degrees and
control point counts. So the degree elevations stop when all
three control grids have the same dimensions.

> > Once one have such a Bezier control grid, one can use it to find the
> > partial derivatives of the surface. The cross product of these gives the
> > surface normal.
>
> Excellent.
>
> > When one have the surface normal, one can create offset surfaces. And
> > offset surfaces are the foundation for the triangle meshes in this image.
>
> And of course, it's then trivial to calculate the mean and Gaussian curvature of
> the surface at any point.

I am afraid you are a bit ahead of me when it comes to those
curvature calculations. It would be nice to have a function
controlled pigment that shows the curvature across the surface.
to see how you would implement that.

> 1. This is such an obviously TOK image, that I would be able to instantly pick
> it out from a page of image results.  You have a certain style that endures
> across decades of work.  :)

Hehe ;)

Thank you, I appreciate that! I didn't know my style was so
recognizable after all these years, but it's nice to know it
stands out.

> 2.  I can't tell you how happy I am that (aside from seeing WHY you'd need to
> degree-elevate) I can read what you've posted without any trouble whatsoever,
> and and feel confident that (given the control grid points) I could even write
> the SDL necessary to replicate your result in full.

Very good!

> Thanks for all of your help in guiding me to this point, and always pushing the
> envelope a little bit farther.

No problem.

Sometimes the process helps me understand things better. In fact,
while writing this, I realized myself that the number of control
points along opposing edges doesn't even need to be the same to
begin with.

It's always fun discussing these things since we enjoy working on
these same kinds of geometry puzzles.

--
Tor Olav
http://subcube.com
https://github.com/t-o-k

[Alain Martel] Re: how to make a blurry reflection?

Mon, 1 Jun 2026 12:42:35 GMT

Le 2026-05-30 Ã  23:47, Cousin Ricky a Ã©critÂ :
> "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>> Hello, I have a question: how to make a blurred reflection in Povray version
>> 3.7?
> 
> This file contains macros that implement the solution that Kenneth referred to:
>    https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-RC3Metal/blob/main/rc3metal.inc
> 
> RC3Metal_Blur_t() is a naive implementation.  It's perfectly fine for a simple
> object with no other reflective object in the scene, but it can bring your CPU
> to its knees if there are mutual blurred reflections.

How to avoid this problem :
1) Give the objects with the blurred reflection the no_reflection attribute.
2) Create a second version of the objects with just normal reflection, 
or the micro-normals based blurred reflection, and the no_image attribute.

> 
> RC3Metal_Blur() uses the optimization that Alain described.
> 
> The argument t_Base is the reflective texture that you want to blur.
> 
> Note that if t_Base has a normal, the above macros will not work as expected.
> Use macros RC3Metal_Normal_blur_t() or RC3Metal_Normal_blur() if you want a
> blurred normal.
> 
> The entire library, including documentation and examples, can be downloaded at:
>    https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-RC3Metal
>

[Bald Eagle] Re: a paper

Mon, 1 Jun 2026 10:45:00 GMT

ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> A paper that describes POV-Ray's internals. Had not seen it before, just
> skimmed through
>
>
https://dspace.bracu.ac.bd/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10361/678/04201001.pdf?sequence=4&isAllowed=y
>
> ingo

Thanks for this.   I haven't seen this one before, and I'm hoping to find some
interesting little gems in there.

- BW

[Bald Eagle] Re: Made from a Coons patch

Mon, 1 Jun 2026 10:45:00 GMT

"Tor Olav Kristensen" <tor### [at] TOBEREMOVEDgmailcom> wrote:
> I recently stumbled upon a web course on CAGD by Leonardo Fernandez-Jambrina and
>
> https://dcain.etsin.upm.es/~leonardo/eindex.html

Nice.  I've seen that page before - I just haven't had time to delve into that
topic again in any meaningful depth.

> What caught my attention was chapter 6, where Coons patches are explained.
>
> I found it interesting that if a Coons patch is made by Bezier curves
> along its edges, then one can make a Bezier control grid for the same
> patch by doing degree elevation on its control grids.

So that you have a subdivided patch . . . It's not instantly obvious why that's
necessary.  Where does one stop subdividing / degree-elevating?

> Once one have such a Bezier control grid, one can use it to find the
> partial derivatives of the surface. The cross product of these gives the
> surface normal.

Excellent.

> When one have the surface normal, one can create offset surfaces. And
> offset surfaces are the foundation for the triangle meshes in this image.

And of course, it's then trivial to calculate the mean and Gaussian curvature of
the surface at any point.

1. This is such an obviously TOK image, that I would be able to instantly pick
it out from a page of image results.  You have a certain style that endures
across decades of work.  :)

2.  I can't tell you how happy I am that (aside from seeing WHY you'd need to
degree-elevate) I can read what you've posted without any trouble whatsoever,
and and feel confident that (given the control grid points) I could even write
the SDL necessary to replicate your result in full.

Thanks for all of your help in guiding me to this point, and always pushing the
envelope a little bit farther.

- BW

[Tor Olav Kristensen] Made from a Coons patch

Sun, 31 May 2026 16:30:00 GMT

I recently stumbled upon a web course on CAGD by Leonardo Fernandez-Jambrina and

https://dcain.etsin.upm.es/~leonardo/eindex.html

What caught my attention was chapter 6, where Coons patches are explained.

I found it interesting that if a Coons patch is made by Bezier curves
along its edges, then one can make a Bezier control grid for the same
patch by doing degree elevation on its control grids.

Once one have such a Bezier control grid, one can use it to find the
partial derivatives of the surface. The cross product of these gives the
surface normal.

When one have the surface normal, one can create offset surfaces. And
offset surfaces are the foundation for the triangle meshes in this image.

--
Tor Olav
http://subcube.com
https://github.com/t-o-k

[Cossack ] Re: how to make a blurry reflection?

Sun, 31 May 2026 10:45:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> On 26/05/2026 23:28, Kenneth wrote:
> > "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> >> Hello, I have a question: how to make a blurred reflection in Povray version
> >> 3.7?
> >
> > The method I know of is here, under the heading: "Is blurred reflection possible
> > in POV-ray?"
> >
> > https://wiki.povray.org/content/Knowledgebase:Language_Questions_and_Tips#Topic_13
> >
> > It works by averaging multiple almost-identical textures, each with a
> > different 'normal', to create the blur.
> >
>
> Thanks, Kenneth, for reminding us of this tip. I’d never tried it
> before, but you can get good results quickly with this method.
>
> #declare BlurAmount = 0.15;
> #declare BlurSamples = 40;
>
> normal {
>    wrinkles BlurAmount
>    translate <rand(S),rand(S),rand(S)>/2
>    scale 0.001
>    }
>
>
>
>
> --
> kurtz le pirate
> compagnie de la banquise

I managed to learn this result with 3 samples

[Cousin Ricky] Re: how to make a blurry reflection?

Sun, 31 May 2026 03:50:00 GMT

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Hello, I have a question: how to make a blurred reflection in Povray version
> 3.7?

This file contains macros that implement the solution that Kenneth referred to:
  https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-RC3Metal/blob/main/rc3metal.inc

RC3Metal_Blur_t() is a naive implementation.  It's perfectly fine for a simple
object with no other reflective object in the scene, but it can bring your CPU
to its knees if there are mutual blurred reflections.

RC3Metal_Blur() uses the optimization that Alain described.

The argument t_Base is the reflective texture that you want to blur.

Note that if t_Base has a normal, the above macros will not work as expected.
Use macros RC3Metal_Normal_blur_t() or RC3Metal_Normal_blur() if you want a
blurred normal.

The entire library, including documentation and examples, can be downloaded at:
  https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-RC3Metal

[Cossack ] Re: how to make a blurry reflection?

Sat, 30 May 2026 17:00:00 GMT

kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] freefr> wrote:
> On 26/05/2026 23:28, Kenneth wrote:
> > "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> >> Hello, I have a question: how to make a blurred reflection in Povray version
> >> 3.7?
> >
> > The method I know of is here, under the heading: "Is blurred reflection possible
> > in POV-ray?"
> >
> > https://wiki.povray.org/content/Knowledgebase:Language_Questions_and_Tips#Topic_13
> >
> > It works by averaging multiple almost-identical textures, each with a
> > different 'normal', to create the blur.
> >
>
> Thanks, Kenneth, for reminding us of this tip. I’d never tried it
> before, but you can get good results quickly with this method.
>
> #declare BlurAmount = 0.15;
> #declare BlurSamples = 40;
>
> normal {
>    wrinkles BlurAmount
>    translate <rand(S),rand(S),rand(S)>/2
>    scale 0.001
>    }
>
>
>
>
> --
> kurtz le pirate
> compagnie de la banquise

It's a shame that I have a crappy phone, and my PC has passed on to a better
world.;]

[Leroy] Re: a paper

Fri, 29 May 2026 17:45:00 GMT

ingo <ing### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> A paper that describes POV-Ray's internals. Had not seen it before, just
> skimmed through
>
>
https://dspace.bracu.ac.bd/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10361/678/04201001.pdf?sequence=4&isAllowed=y
>
> ingo

Cool! Now I have some more light reading :)

Have Fun!

[kurtz le pirate] Re: how to make a blurry reflection?

Fri, 29 May 2026 16:18:37 GMT

On 26/05/2026 23:28, Kenneth wrote:
> "Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>> Hello, I have a question: how to make a blurred reflection in Povray version
>> 3.7?
> 
> The method I know of is here, under the heading: "Is blurred reflection possible
> in POV-ray?"
> 
> https://wiki.povray.org/content/Knowledgebase:Language_Questions_and_Tips#Topic_13
> 
> It works by averaging multiple almost-identical textures, each with a
> different 'normal', to create the blur.
> 

Thanks, Kenneth, for reminding us of this tip. Iâ€™d never tried it 
before, but you can get good results quickly with this method.

#declare BlurAmount = 0.15;
#declare BlurSamples = 40;

normal {
   wrinkles BlurAmount
   translate <rand(S),rand(S),rand(S)>/2
   scale 0.001
   }




-- 
kurtz le pirate
compagnie de la banquise

[ingo] a paper

Fri, 29 May 2026 06:05:17 GMT

A paper that describes POV-Ray's internals. Had not seen it before, just 
skimmed through

https://dspace.bracu.ac.bd/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10361/678/04201001.pdf?sequence=4&isAllowed=y

ingo

[Mr] Re: Popularization of the POV-Ray program on Tik...

Thu, 28 May 2026 12:10:00 GMT

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> The idea is simple: create content like memes, tutorials, videos, etc. Here's an
> example:

The first problem is adapting it to tiktok format: audio track needs to be

EITHER:
paired your renders with trending synthwave, chillwave, or retro-electronic
music to match the aesthetic.

OR:
original to avoid being censored. So what should a POV soundtrack be like? I
think sound samples from an on-topic talking podcast or tutorial, one that the
author would allow us to use could make a good backdrop... (e.g. SMCA: Stephen
Mc Avoy, with your awesome scottish accent, would you allow such derivative use
of your works?)

Then there is the content:

*WIP Videos: Users love seeing how things are made. So a time-lapse of a POV-Ray
scene compiling, or a "code vs. render" split screen, may perform very well.

*Satisfying Loops: POV-Ray is great for creating perfect, mathematically precise
loops (Möbius strips, fractals, morphing shapes) which are highly addictive to
watch.

* generally, using the below tags could federate and ease the virality:

#POVRay
#RetroCGI
#3DRender
#OldSchoolCGI
#FractalArt
#GenerativeArt

* Join Broader Communities: Post your work in the
#3DArtists
#DigitalArt

* Is there any challenge worth contributing to? These might be a fit:

#RetroCGIChallenge
#LowPolyArt
#FractalFriday

* When using Nostalgia & "Retro-Future" Aesthetic:
#Y2K
#AnalogHorror"
#RetroCGI

[Jim Henderson] ---

Wed, 27 May 2026 18:12:20 GMT

On Wed, 27 May 2026 19:15:20 +0200, Lars Rohwedder wrote:

> None of them is free.

Read more closely; there's a "Replaced with" that has a free option, like 
Davinci Resolve replacing Adobe Premiere.

> What do they pay you for your advertising/spamming?

BE is a long-time member of the community, not a spammer.

To be fair, my initial reaction was similar, but then I read more closely, 
and saw that he was sharing "if you're paying for x, here's option y which 
at least has a free option".

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Lars Rohwedder] ---

Wed, 27 May 2026 17:15:21 GMT

None of them is free.

What do they pay you for your advertising/spamming?

L.

[Cossack ] Popularization of the POV-Ray program on TikTok

Wed, 27 May 2026 12:00:00 GMT

The idea is simple: create content like memes, tutorials, videos, etc. Here's an
example:

[Alain Martel] Re: how to make a blurry reflection?

Wed, 27 May 2026 11:07:46 GMT

Le 2026-05-26 Ã  13:28, Cossack a Ã©critÂ :
> Hello, I have a question: how to make a blurred reflection in Povray version
> 3.7?

Work with versions 3.3+.
Two ways :
1) Micro-normals. Use some normal, like granite, scaled very small. Need 
to use antialiasing to work.
2) Averaged normals. Apply many normals randomly displaced. Really slow 
down the render. You must avoid inter reflections between surfaces with 
blurred refection. Use no_image and no_reflection this way : One object 
with the averaged normals and the no_reflection attribute. Don't show in 
reflections.
A second identical object with micro-normals or just normal reflection 
instead of the averaged normals, and the no_image attribute. Not visible 
directly, but shows in reflections.

Micro-normals work best with some averaging. Normally, 5 to 10 instances 
are OK.
Averaged normals usually demand 200+ instances.

=====================================================

With version 3.8 and radiosity, you can get blurred metallic reflection 
using brilliance.
Need to add Â«brilliance onÂ» in the radiosity block.
Need the surface to have a pretty high brilliance. Typically 100 to 1000.
This blurring seems to be similar to phong highlights : Higher value = 
more and sharper reflection.

[ingo] Re: how to make a blurry reflection?

Wed, 27 May 2026 06:50:00 GMT

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Hello, I have a question: how to make a blurred reflection in Povray version
> 3.7?

Use a very scaled down normal and keep the "hight" of it relative big. Use a
patter like granite or noise like

ingo

[Kenneth] Re: how to make a blurry reflection?

Tue, 26 May 2026 21:30:00 GMT

"Cossack " <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Hello, I have a question: how to make a blurred reflection in Povray version
> 3.7?

The method I know of is here, under the heading: "Is blurred reflection possible
in POV-ray?"

https://wiki.povray.org/content/Knowledgebase:Language_Questions_and_Tips#Topic_13

It works by averaging multiple almost-identical textures, each with a
different 'normal', to create the blur.

[Cossack ] how to make a blurry reflection?

Tue, 26 May 2026 17:30:00 GMT

Hello, I have a question: how to make a blurred reflection in Povray version
3.7?

[jr] Re: v3.8 documentation preview (5 May version)

Tue, 26 May 2026 11:15:00 GMT

hi,

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > just to add, "we" would also like to know about other problems regarding the
> > documentation, for instance, are there any omissions[*] you may be aware of ?
>
> I'm sure I've commented on a few things over the past few years.

:-)

> ...
> Dunno if this has been fixed:
> https://news.povray.org/616c99b9%40news.povray.org

WFP's suggested wording was added (by JH) on the same day as his post.

> ...
> That's all for now

the "documented domain(s)" stuff has been noted.  thanks, very much.


regards, jr.

[Bald Eagle] Re: v3.8 documentation preview (5 May version)

Mon, 25 May 2026 22:35:00 GMT

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> just to add, "we" would also like to know about other problems regarding the
> documentation, for instance, are there any omissions[*] you may be aware of ?

I'm sure I've commented on a few things over the past few years.

That can be tough to find, but I'll see what I can come up with off the top of
my head.

Functions like acos have a certain valid domain, and it would be very nice if
the input domain of the function was specifically listed for all such functions.

https://news.povray.org/povray.pov4.discussion.general/thread/%3Cweb.67ba4f111d1d35891f9dae3025979125%40news.povray.org
%3E/

Dunno if this has been fixed:

https://news.povray.org/616c99b9%40news.povray.org

https://news.povray.org/povray.advanced-users/message/%3C5e933f68%241%40news.povray.org%3E/#%3C5e933f68%241%40news.povr
ay.org%3E

That's all for now

- BE

[jr] Re: v3.8 documentation preview (5 May version)

Mon, 25 May 2026 15:15:00 GMT

hi,

Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> While the final content of the v3.8 documentation is certain to change (at a minimum
I want to update the Windows sec
tion, plus replace all images with larger ones), we thought it prudent to spin up a
docset to test the generation proce
ss since it has not been run since the server crash a while back.
>
> As some of you may know, the documentation on the Wiki is considered the master, and
thus we have some PHP code which
 pulls the content directly from the Wiki database, modifies it according to our needs
(e.g. converting wiki markup to 
HTML, pulling the images out of the wiki file storage), and then outputs the filesets
I will refer to below.
>
> In addition a special version of the windows docs are generated (separate from the
tarfile) from which the HtmlHelp C
HM file is generated.
>
> Due to changes in our OS install post-crash (particularly the PHP version), the PHP
scripts had to be updated to work
 with the current setup.
>
> I'd like to make a shout-out to forum regular jr who took on the task of getting
this all going and making the filese
ts I'm about to reference.
>
> Because we have had immense trouble with AI bots scraping the site (they almost all
ignore any robots.txt directives*
) and also because we do not want these pre-release docs indexed by any search engine,
I will not put the full path to 
the docs here; I am sure you can work it out :)
>
> They are on the povray site, in temp/05May2026Docs. There you will find three
tarballs (Mac, Windows and Unix) plus a
 Windows HtmlHelp file (.chm). There is also an online viewable version of the unix
docs (identical to what's in the ta
rball, I just extracted it as-is).
>
> I ask that you please do NOT share the full link anywhere public, and in particular
not in any site on the web that c
ould be indexed by search engines.


just to add, "we" would also like to know about other problems regarding the
documentation, for instance, are there any omissions[*] you may be aware of ?

[*] eg
<wiki.povray.org/content/Documentation:Tutorial_Section_1#Changes_and_New_Features_Summary>

if no one reports, finds cause to :-), we will then "move on" from middle of
June, or so.


regards, jr.