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From: Jim Holsenback
Subject: Re: Documentation Migration
Date: 22 Jan 2009 06:14:29
Message: <49785515@news.povray.org>
"Eddie" <non### [at] nowherecom> wrote in message 
news:4977ec78$1@news.povray.org...
> Jim, I don't know PHP but I suspect you're approaching this the wrong way.

don't think so, perhaps I've not communicated clearly ....

> You don't need to create PHP scripts, you simply need to create one or 
> more XML documents with the text of the pages in the WIKI text format.

the PHP scripts are to pull the data back out in various formats .... pdf, 
latex, windows (chm) .....
the perl script is to process those pesky pov-centric tags (sectiondesc, 
indexentry, linkto) by wrapping them in comments so they are not end user 
viewable but are there none the less for PHP script to find them later. 
There are also some wiki-isms that I've had to account for. This process is 
pretty automated. I'm NOT doing any hand edits with the exception of the TeX 
formulas used in the reference. I decided to do that by had as there were 
only about a dozen or so used through out  the entire doc set  .... see on 
the wiki User:Jholsenback

> You can download a few pages to see what the format looks like:
> http://wiki.povray.org/content/Special:Export

yes I've used this feature to export data from other wiki's into mine 
(sandbox) ... it works rather nicely.

> Once they're ready you can e-mail them to an admin like Chris who can 
> import them and the pages defined in the XML file(s) will get created.

I have sysop so I can do that myself.

> Let me know if you need more detail.

no offence ... I'm pretty far up on the curve now. I have a clear vision of 
where I'm going with this.

Cheers


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From: Jim Holsenback
Subject: Re: Documentation Migration
Date: 22 Jan 2009 06:21:54
Message: <497856d2@news.povray.org>
"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message 
news:497808fa@news.povray.org...
> The challenge isn't just exporting to a format to import to Wiki (what
> you suggest is where I started on it myself), but also to export
> modifications/updates put in the Wiki back into the povdoc format.  If
> you strip the povdoc tags from the file (which seemed to me to be
> necessary to use the xml format), then you can't easily re-insert them
> when you dump the pages again.

not stripped but wrapped in comments ..... wiki processes ALOT of html tags 
but not all so I've had to come up with what I consider a wiki equivilant in 
a few cases. The input side documents are just html stub files wrapped in a 
bit of wiki markup.

> That's why a plugin seems like a better approach.  If the wiki preserves
> those formatting tags, then they can be re-exported.  The tags themselves
> are used for things like linking sections to the TOC and the index.

yes and chm (windows help) indexing, keyword building (for searching) .....

Jim (the other one ;-)


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Documentation Migration
Date: 22 Jan 2009 11:07:41
Message: <497899cd$1@news.povray.org>
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:21:57 -0400, Jim Holsenback wrote:

> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:497808fa@news.povray.org...
>> The challenge isn't just exporting to a format to import to Wiki (what
>> you suggest is where I started on it myself), but also to export
>> modifications/updates put in the Wiki back into the povdoc format.  If
>> you strip the povdoc tags from the file (which seemed to me to be
>> necessary to use the xml format), then you can't easily re-insert them
>> when you dump the pages again.
> 
> not stripped but wrapped in comments ..... wiki processes ALOT of html
> tags but not all so I've had to come up with what I consider a wiki
> equivilant in a few cases. The input side documents are just html stub
> files wrapped in a bit of wiki markup.

That's a good way of handling it.  Cue discussion from p.o-t about the 
xkcd cartoon about the guy who got locked out of his apartment and tried 
everything except ringing the doorbell to get his roommate's attention....

>> That's why a plugin seems like a better approach.  If the wiki
>> preserves those formatting tags, then they can be re-exported.  The
>> tags themselves are used for things like linking sections to the TOC
>> and the index.
> 
> yes and chm (windows help) indexing, keyword building (for searching)
> .....

Yep, and those are big ones. :-)

Jim


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From: Jim Holsenback
Subject: Re: Documentation Migration
Date: 22 Jan 2009 13:06:36
Message: <4978b5ac$1@news.povray.org>
"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message 
news:497899cd$1@news.povray.org...
> That's a good way of handling it.  Cue discussion from p.o-t about the
> xkcd cartoon about the guy who got locked out of his apartment and tried
> everything except ringing the doorbell to get his roommate's attention....

or locked keys in car but forgot to notice passenger window was down ...

>> yes and chm (windows help) indexing, keyword building (for searching)
>> .....
>
> Yep, and those are big ones. :-)

I've had to make some consessions regarding linkto .... on the wiki side 
that is, however the orginal intent of the linkto tag has been preserved in 
comments.

Ciao


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Documentation Migration
Date: 22 Jan 2009 14:00:30
Message: <4978c24e$1@news.povray.org>
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:06:42 -0400, Jim Holsenback wrote:

> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:497899cd$1@news.povray.org...
>> That's a good way of handling it.  Cue discussion from p.o-t about the
>> xkcd cartoon about the guy who got locked out of his apartment and
>> tried everything except ringing the doorbell to get his roommate's
>> attention....
> 
> or locked keys in car but forgot to notice passenger window was down ...

Yup.  BTDT - once. :-)

>>> yes and chm (windows help) indexing, keyword building (for searching)
>>> .....
>>
>> Yep, and those are big ones. :-)
> 
> I've had to make some consessions regarding linkto .... on the wiki side
> that is, however the orginal intent of the linkto tag has been preserved
> in comments.

That's good to know. :-)

Jim


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From: Eddie
Subject: Re: Documentation Migration
Date: 22 Jan 2009 20:34:42
Message: <49791eb2$1@news.povray.org>
"Jim Holsenback" <jho### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message 
news:49785515@news.povray.org...
> [...]
> no offence ... I'm pretty far up on the curve now. I have a clear vision 
> of where I'm going with this.

None taken, and none intended.

Glad you're making progress.

Cheers
Eddie


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From: ingo
Subject: Re: Documentation Migration
Date: 23 Jan 2009 12:46:30
Message: <Xns9B9CBEF5E2BCDseed7@news.povray.org>
in news:497347ae@news.povray.org Jim Holsenback wrote:

> Now that the povwiki is backonline I thought I'd let you folks in on
> what I've been up to ....
> 

Jim,

I'm not around here much lately, so I may have missed a few things and 
be late with my comment, but I still have an old idea from the time 
when I did the docs.

 The basic idea was the same as you're doing now, make the docs 
available in a wiki. My look at it was a bit different, as I'm lazy and 
don't like all the conversions that have to be done. Then I came across 
the MoinMoin Wiki engine http://moinmo.in/ that makes it possible to 
use several different parsers for wiki markup. Being a terrible 
programmer I never got anything that eats pov-doc as markup. Yet still, 
would it be possible to do something like that for the MediaWiki 
engine?

Another way could be to abandon the pov-doc format and choose ReST 
http://docutils.sourceforge.net/rst.html , the MoinMoin engine can deal 
with ReST http://moinmo.in/HelpOnParsers/ReStructuredText and the 
python documentation is also written in ReST and then processed with 
Sphinx http://sphinx.pocoo.org/ an example of the docs 
http://docs.python.org/index.html

ingo


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From: Jim Holsenback
Subject: Re: Documentation Migration
Date: 24 Jan 2009 06:00:18
Message: <497af4c2@news.povray.org>
"ingo" <ing### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message 
news:Xns9B9CBEF5E2BCDseed7@news.povray.org...
> I'm not around here much lately, so I may have missed a few things and
> be late with my comment, but I still have an old idea from the time
> when I did the docs.

Ingo,

Thanks for the links. Chris had me looking at a few tools before I decided 
to write something on my own.

This whole process has me with eye's wide open now. There sure are alot of 
markup languages and parsers out there. Some fairly task specific other 
pretty general, and it seemed that the tools I DID look at only offered the 
80% solution. That's why I ended up settling on a home grown perl solution. 
Again thanks for the links. I'll have a look even if it's only for a bit of 
reading between tasks :-)

Cheers


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From: Jim Holsenback
Subject: Re: Documentation Migration
Date: 31 Jan 2009 10:12:37
Message: <49846a65@news.povray.org>
"Jim Holsenback" <jho### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message 
news:4977076f@news.povray.org...
> I'm very close to having content ready. I think I can get the perl script 
> changes and additions (that came from my first run at the data) done 
> today.

Some delays but I was able to get the fall out from my first run at the data 
integrated into the perl script.
I've had another run at the date and it looks OK fine!

Just for the heck of it I decided to test export/import functionality 
between wiki's and I posted the section or chapter table of contents

http://wiki.povray.org/content/Documentation:Contents

Jim


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