POV-Ray : Newsgroups : povray.beta-test : POV-Ray v3.8.0-alpha.9811560 Server Time
28 Mar 2024 10:32:30 EDT (-0400)
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From: dick balaska
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.8.0-alpha.9811560
Date: 31 Aug 2018 17:34:27
Message: <5b89b463$1@news.povray.org>
On 08/31/2018 04:05 PM, Kenneth wrote:
> "Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> 
>>
>> Good news: Adding -cc to the command line DOES work-- the scene now renders!
>> Thanks for that hint.
>>
> 
> Well, things are still not quite right: I neglected to notice that, even though
> the scene does now render to the preview window, there's no image saved:
> 
> "cannot write PNG data" (fatal error after the preview)
> 
> I re-checked my POVRAY.INI file to make sure it has the correct library path for
> image output; it's still correctly set to...
> 
> Output_File_Name="C:/Users/Computer/Documents/Kens POV-Ray rendered IMAGES/"

Is that the directory that the SDL source is in? Just wondering. The
default is to write to the same directory, so maybe ...

It would be helpful if the error message included the path that POV-Ray
is trying to write to.

Try copying your source file to that directory.  Then render it. If that
works, then we know it's a config problem elsewhere.
-- 
dik
Rendered 1024 of 921600 pixels (0%)


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.8.0-alpha.9811560
Date: 31 Aug 2018 22:20:01
Message: <web.5b89f5afc46e580da47873e10@news.povray.org>
"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> I re-checked my POVRAY.INI file to make sure it has the correct library
> path for image output; it's still correctly set to...
>
> Output_File_Name="C:/Users/Computer/Documents/Kens POV-Ray rendered IMAGES/"
>

Well, I found the problem: Human Error (as usual!)

With my WORKING v3.7.1 beta 9 version, I had *changed* the name of my
image-output folder to...

Kens_POV_Ray_rendered_IMAGES

.... which is the currently correct one.

..... and likewise for the image-output library path in its own POVRAY.INI
file...
Output_File_Name=C:\Users\Computer\Documents\Kens_POV_Ray_rendered_IMAGES\

Note the added underscores (and the no-longer-needed double-quotes, since there
are no longer any spaces in that library path.) So everything works fine in beta
9!

HOWEVER, the new 3.8.0 alpha 'engine' was loaded into my older 3.7 folder (which
is the correct placement)-- but the POVRAY.INI file for *v3.7* was using my OLD
library path (the one that I *thought* was correct, the one with no underscores
etc.) I had forgotten to change that INI file to the newer library path for my
output images.

SO... it turned out to be a library-path problem after all. Duh. I updated that
'bad' path, and all is well. Sorry for the trouble and confusion.

A question, though: In testing out alphas, betas, etc., OR while running the
original 3.7.0, should I make ONE master POVRAY.INI file and always use that, no
matter what program version I'm running? Up until now, I've always thought that
each version should keep its own INI file intact. (Uh, which obviously led to my
problem!)


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.8.0-alpha.9811560
Date: 31 Aug 2018 23:04:55
Message: <5b8a01d7$1@news.povray.org>
Am 31.08.2018 um 19:08 schrieb jr:
> hi,
> 
> clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>> Am 30.08.2018 um 21:38 schrieb jr:
>>
>>> is it ok to just make and copy the new executable into place, or have any of the
>>> supporting files (docs etc) changed too?
>> There's a caveat regarding the help file: ... `povray37.chm`.
> 
> this is a for a Linux box.  :-)

Oops, I didn't see the "make and" there.

(*scratches head*)

I'd have to dig deep and embark on an extensive investigation to make a
reliable statement about this.

If you're talking about dropping the new executable into a v3.7
installation, then I would recommend against it. IIRC the Unix/Linux
incarnation wasn't designed to live piggyback on a v3.7 installation;
that's only done on Windows, because full-fledged installation is
difficult there.

If you're talking about replacing an existing v3.8-alpha binary with the
new one, that shouldn't be a problem.


>> I haven't gotten around to updating the v3.8 help file to the latest
>> Wiki contents yet, so it may be a bit behind.
> 
> when you do, can you please add information regarding the new, relaxed upper
> limit for strings?  I found a few mentions of it [limit] not applying any more,
> but no number for the new limit.  also for the colour_map entry, iirc.

Sky's the limit now. Whatever fits into your memory.


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.8.0-alpha.9811560
Date: 31 Aug 2018 23:59:01
Message: <5b8a0e85$1@news.povray.org>
Am 01.09.2018 um 04:15 schrieb Kenneth:

> A question, though: In testing out alphas, betas, etc., OR while running the
> original 3.7.0, should I make ONE master POVRAY.INI file and always use that, no
> matter what program version I'm running? Up until now, I've always thought that
> each version should keep its own INI file intact. (Uh, which obviously led to my
> problem!)

The plan is as follows (for Windows at any rate):


(A) Final Releases
==================

Final releases of different "generations" (e.g. v3.7 vs. v3.8) are
intended to live separately from each other without interfering. The
only intentional point of contact would be the new generation copying
settings from the older generation (if detected) when first started.
(This means that, among other things, they each have their own POVRAY.INI.)

Final releases of the same generation (e.g. v3.7.0 vs. v3.7.1, though
this is hypothetical) are intended to replace each other. The only
reasonably sane way for different binaries of the same generation to
live alongside each other would be to rename one of the binaries, and
have both binaries share everything (most notably the POVRAY.INI, but
also registry settings and other stuff.)


(B) Release Candidates
======================

Release candidates are intended to behave exactly like the respective
final release (except for showng a different version number); this
extends to where they choose to live and how to (not) cooperate or
interfere with other versions.


(C) Beta Releases
=================

In order to allow for installing a beta release while also keeping an
earlier final release of the same generation (e.g. v3.7.0 proper and
v3.7.1-beta.1), beta releases are intended to live in their own happy
place, without interfering with any non-beta versions (but replacing or
interfering with other betas of the same generation).


(D) Development (Alpha) Releases
================================

While all of the above come with an installer, alpha releases don't;
therefore, to make installation reasonably easy, they need to piggyback
on an existing installation, and interfere with it extensively. It is
presumed that alpha users are experienced enough not to mess up their
nice final release, and are willing to accept the (small) risk of the
alpha accidently screwing something up.

New alpha releases of an existing generation (e.g. v3.7.1-alpha) will
piggyback on an earlier final release of the same generation (any v3.7
in the example case.

Alpha releases of a brand new generation (e.g. 3.8.0-alpha) have to
piggyback on a final release of the previous generation (again any v3.7
in the example case).


(E) Experimental Releases
=========================

Same deal as with alpha releases.


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From: jr
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.8.0-alpha.9811560
Date: 1 Sep 2018 08:35:01
Message: <web.5b8a86fdc46e580d1500b2fd0@news.povray.org>
hi,

clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> If you're talking about replacing an existing v3.8-alpha binary with the
> new one, that shouldn't be a problem.

perfect.

> > ... the new, relaxed upper limit for strings?
> Sky's the limit now. Whatever fits into your memory.

ok.

thank you.


regards, jr.


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.8.0-alpha.9811560
Date: 1 Sep 2018 16:10:00
Message: <web.5b8af1f9c46e580da47873e10@news.povray.org>
clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:

>
> The plan is as follows (for Windows at any rate):
>
Thanks for the excellent description and detail of the various releases and what
they mean. You probably posted some of this before (but which had not yet
impinged on my brain, I admit).

>
> (C) Beta Releases
> =================
>
> In order to allow for installing a beta release while also keeping an
> earlier final release of the same generation (e.g. v3.7.0 proper and
> v3.7.1-beta.1), beta releases are intended to live in their own happy
> place, without interfering with any non-beta versions (but replacing or
> interfering with other betas of the same generation).
>
>
> (D) Development (Alpha) Releases
> ================================
>
> While all of the above come with an installer...

I'm still just a little confused about this: I have an older 3.7.1 beta
release...
             3.7.1-beta.4+msvc14.win64
.... that *AFAIK* is supposed to be installed into "an existing 3.7.0 binary"
(piggybacked, in other words.) I just tested this again, and the scheme works.
But that seems to go against the idea that betas always(?) come with their own
installer. Sorry to throw a small monkey-wrench into the discussion, but this
particular situation is a bit mysterious. Or maybe I'm simply misreading your
beta release info.

BTW, my idea of using only ONE 'master' POVRAY.INI file for *all* releases was
rather half-formed; sorry about that. I had a panicky notion that there were
*multitudes* of those INI files in various places, that had to be dealt with--
but of course that's not the case. (On my system, there are only two-- for my
3.7 and 3.7.1 beta 9 installs.) In any case, for such a scheme to work, I would
need to make the one master file, place it *somwewhere* (permanently), then make
Windows  'shortcuts' to place into the respective POV-Ray 'bin' folders. Being
the curious person that I am, I actually tried that. It doesn't work (as I
suspected) but I'm wondering why. Are 'non-functioning' shortcuts a general
Windows limitation for ALL such 'configuration files', or is it something
specific to POV-Ray by design? I'm certainly no expert about this stuff, which
is why I ask.


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.8.0-alpha.9811560
Date: 1 Sep 2018 20:15:01
Message: <5b8b2b85$1@news.povray.org>
Am 01.09.2018 um 22:09 schrieb Kenneth:

>> The plan is as follows (for Windows at any rate):
>>
> Thanks for the excellent description and detail of the various releases and what
> they mean. You probably posted some of this before (but which had not yet
> impinged on my brain, I admit).

I may have mentioned some of it, maybe; but only in passing.


> I'm still just a little confused about this: I have an older 3.7.1 beta
> release...
>              3.7.1-beta.4+msvc14.win64
> ..... that *AFAIK* is supposed to be installed into "an existing 3.7.0 binary"
> (piggybacked, in other words.) I just tested this again, and the scheme works.

- Says who?
- How do you install it into "an existing 3.7.0 [installation]"?
- No; ever since v3.7.1-beta.2, it was intended to install in a separate
directory; the only exception was v3.7.1-beta.1, and that was by
mistake, and the reason that beta was never actually made public.


> BTW, my idea of using only ONE 'master' POVRAY.INI file for *all* releases was
> rather half-formed; sorry about that. I had a panicky notion that there were
> *multitudes* of those INI files in various places, that had to be dealt with--
> but of course that's not the case. (On my system, there are only two-- for my
> 3.7 and 3.7.1 beta 9 installs.) In any case, for such a scheme to work, I would
> need to make the one master file, place it *somwewhere* (permanently), then make
> Windows  'shortcuts' to place into the respective POV-Ray 'bin' folders. Being
> the curious person that I am, I actually tried that. It doesn't work (as I
> suspected) but I'm wondering why. Are 'non-functioning' shortcuts a general
> Windows limitation for ALL such 'configuration files', or is it something
> specific to POV-Ray by design? I'm certainly no expert about this stuff, which
> is why I ask.

I would suspect that it has something to do with Windows shortcuts not
really being proper links - not even soft links.

BTW, Windows /can/ manage genuine hard and soft links, and they work far
more reliably. But you need to use shell commands or 3rd party tools to
create them.


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.8.0-alpha.9811560
Date: 1 Sep 2018 22:30:01
Message: <web.5b8b4a3cc46e580da47873e10@news.povray.org>
clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Am 01.09.2018 um 22:09 schrieb Kenneth:

> > I'm still just a little confused about this: I have an older 3.7.1 beta
> > release...
> >              3.7.1-beta.4+msvc14.win64
> > ..... that *AFAIK* is supposed to be installed into "an existing 3.7.0 binary"
> > (piggybacked, in other words.) I just tested this again, and the scheme works.
>
> - Says who?
> - How do you install it into "an existing 3.7.0 [installation]"?

I did the usual trick of removing (sequestering) the original 3.7.0 pvengine64
file and simply dropping in the beta4 version of the file instead (all within
the 3.7.0 folder, or rather 3.7; I also have a separate 3.7 beta 9 folder.)
Seems to run just fine. I don't *remember* it being a 'stand-alone'/installable
version when I downloaded it. (I *hope* that I would have noticed that!) But
I'll take another look at the Github download page for the beta4 version, to see
if I screwed up.

I guess you mean that the beta4 is/was supposed to be a 'complete' standalone
install, like 3.7.1 beta 9.  Makes me wonder why or how it works in my scheme,
when apparently it shouldn't!  (BTW, I did double-check the running program to
make sure it IS beta4 that I'm running. AND to make sure that the beta4 engine
is indeed in my 3.7 folder and not in my 3.7 beta 9 folder by mistake.)


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.8.0-alpha.9811560
Date: 1 Sep 2018 22:50:01
Message: <web.5b8b4ee9c46e580da47873e10@news.povray.org>
"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

>
> I did the usual trick of removing (sequestering) the original 3.7.0 pvengine64
> file and simply dropping in the beta4 version of the file instead (all within
> the 3.7.0 folder, or rather 3.7; I also have a separate 3.7 beta 9 folder.)
> Seems to run just fine.

Here's a little caveat though, which just occured to me: On my desktop, I have a
"POV-ray 3.7.0" shorcut (icon) which I always use to start it (regardless of the
*particular* pvengine64 file that I'm currently running there-- the original, or
various alphas, or beta4.) I've never changed that shorcut (meaning, as I remove
or drop in various pvengines to test things, I don't make a 'new' shorcut for
the current version; it never seems to be necessary.) But the shortcut still
starts up the correct current pvengine (as I can see when querying POV-Ray's
'Help/About POV-ray for Windows' menu.)


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.8.0-alpha.9811560
Date: 1 Sep 2018 23:40:00
Message: <web.5b8b5a31c46e580da47873e10@news.povray.org>
"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> > Am 01.09.2018 um 22:09 schrieb Kenneth:
>
> > > I'm still just a little confused about this: I have an older 3.7.1 beta
> > > release...
> > >              3.7.1-beta.4+msvc14.win64

> > - How do you install it into "an existing 3.7.0 [installation]"?
>

Well, from looking at Github, I see that beta4 is/was indeed a 'complete'
install, not a simple drop-in 'pvengine'. I have no idea how I actually obtained
*just* the engine itself-- I must have downloaded and installed the complete
package, then 'extracted' the engine file to use (with 3.7.0) while discarding
the rest, in some fit of madness or ignorance. :-O  But it works, strangely (or
*appears* to!)


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