irtc.general message digest

[Win95] test [457 days 10 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Sat, 4 Jan 2025 18:23:18 GMT

[Normand Briere] Re: NOA challenges have started [2752 days 10 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Sun, 23 Sep 2018 18:10:07 GMT

New entry for the Destruction round:

https://www.noaofarc.ca/gallery/noa/destruction-round

It is worth it. Please click on the previews to enlarge up to fullscreen.

Normand alias DrNo

[Normand Briere] NOA challenges have started [2773 days 4 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Sun, 2 Sep 2018 23:50:00 GMT

The upload period is over for the ELECTRICITY round, but please keep on voting
because we got late entries:

https://www.noaofarc.ca/gallery/noa/electricity-round

On the other hand, people decided so from the topics, and two rounds are now
open, namely DESTRUCTION and INSECT. Do not miss yet another new entry already
in the INSECT round:

https://www.noaofarc.ca/gallery/noa/insect-round

Enjoy!

Noa administration

https://www.noaofarc.ca

[Stephen] Re: NOA OF ARC official debut [2783 days 22 hours and 33 minutes ago]

Thu, 23 Aug 2018 06:15:38 GMT

On 21/08/2018 12:12, clipka wrote:
> Am 21.08.2018 um 02:10 schrieb Normand Briere:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Noa of Arc (https://www.noaofarc.ca) is quite complex, and preparing the website
>> took more time than expected. We apologize for the delay, but we preferred to
>> fix all major problems before making it officially available.
> 
> The uninitiated reader may wonder, "WTF is this site about?"
> 

I suppose the uninitiated reader would either leave or read on and find 
out. :P

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Normand Briere] Re: NOA OF ARC official debut [2785 days 15 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Tue, 21 Aug 2018 13:35:00 GMT

> I have one BIG question: where are the rules for the round(s) ?
>
> And for the electricity round, why is there no post in the forum in the
> "About the topic" section ?
>
> Should the candidate post the picture in the forum or something else (I
> was used to fill entries for IRTC and Tina..., but things change with time).


Good comments indeed. The forums are more for WIPs and discussions, but the
final submitted pictures have to be uploaded in the galleries to be voted for.
You will get yourself some answers in the post:

https://www.noaofarc.ca/en-us/forums/electricity-round-topic

We prefer to put most links in our own forums to be able to edit them if they
ever change.

Enjoy!

[clipka] Re: NOA OF ARC official debut [2785 days 17 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Tue, 21 Aug 2018 11:12:56 GMT

Am 21.08.2018 um 02:10 schrieb Normand Briere:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Noa of Arc (https://www.noaofarc.ca) is quite complex, and preparing the website
> took more time than expected. We apologize for the delay, but we preferred to
> fix all major problems before making it officially available.

The uninitiated reader may wonder, "WTF is this site about?"

[Le Forgeron] Re: NOA OF ARC official debut [2785 days 17 hours and 53 minutes ago]

Tue, 21 Aug 2018 10:55:36 GMT

Le 21/08/2018 Ã  02:17, Normand Briere a Ã©critÂ :
> 
> The links don't work in the post, please use these ones:
> 
> https://www.noaofarc.ca
> https://www.noaofarc.ca/en-us/gallery/noa/electricity-round
> https://www.noaofarc.ca/en-us/gallery-menu/choose-topic
> 
> Sorry about that!
> 
> 
> 
Nice links (and they worked in first message with Thunderbird, even if 
adding spaces inside () can help others)

I have one BIG question: where are the rules for the round(s) ?


And for the electricity round, why is there no post in the forum in the 
"About the topic" section ?

Should the candidate post the picture in the forum or something else (I 
was used to fill entries for IRTC and Tina..., but things change with time).

[Normand Briere] Re: NOA OF ARC official debut [2786 days 4 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Tue, 21 Aug 2018 00:20:00 GMT

The links don't work in the post, please use these ones:

https://www.noaofarc.ca
https://www.noaofarc.ca/en-us/gallery/noa/electricity-round
https://www.noaofarc.ca/en-us/gallery-menu/choose-topic

Sorry about that!

[Normand Briere] NOA OF ARC official debut [2786 days 4 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Tue, 21 Aug 2018 00:15:00 GMT

Hi,

Noa of Arc (https://www.noaofarc.ca) is quite complex, and preparing the website
took more time than expected. We apologize for the delay, but we preferred to
fix all major problems before making it officially available.

Exactly one year after the termination of the TC-RTC, we are able to announce
that the site is fully ready to host the new rendering challenge series.

As we speak, "The story of Electricity"
(https://www.noaofarc.ca/en-us/gallery/noa/electricity-round) is still open
until end of August 2018. People are welcome to vote (login required) for the
entries.

Beginning of September 2018, another round will take place, and according to the
current top topics (https://www.noaofarc.ca/en-us/gallery-menu/choose-topic),
the next round is likely to be "Destruction". Pretty much like Noa taking over
Tina Chep, maybe sometimes do we need to start all over again on new grounds.

We actually propose to run two rounds in parallel, and the choices will be
determined from the topic poll. There rounds will last until the end of the
year.

Thanks for your patience, and we wish you happy rendering!


Noa of Arc administration

[Le Forgeron] Re: Suggested / desired new ray / trace functions [2806 days 11 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Tue, 31 Jul 2018 17:34:03 GMT

Le 31/07/2018 Ã  15:20, William F Pokorny a Ã©critÂ :
> On 07/31/2018 04:39 AM, Le Forgeron wrote:
>> Le 31/07/2018 Ã  04:32, dick balaska a Ã©critÂ :
>>> On 07/30/2018 07:46 PM, Bald Eagle wrote:
>>>
> ....
>>
>>
>> Nothing funky, and its all in my branch feature/extended-mesh, forked
>> fresh from official master branch
>>
>> See if you want to pull it anywhere:
>>
>> https://github.com/LeForgeron/povray/tree/feature/extended-mesh
>>
>> The first commit is the patch,
>>
>> The second commit is the merge into hgpovray38 (and you do not need it)
> 
> I've not got your experience with code control, so perhaps asking a
> stupid question.
> 

Rule#1 : I suck at using git & github.

> Is there a reason you are not keeping your patches as independent
> branches periodically re-based to master instead of merging them back
> into hgpovray as posted on github?
> 

I do not intend to waste time to rebase.

In previous 3.7, I tried to make a corrected master and a proper
hgpovray based on that master... additions were forked from hgpovray
before merging back into it. It failed when master started to get
refactored so heavily that it would need a complete rewrite of
everything in hgpovray.

This time, I have reduced my target: only one branch to keep alive,
hgpovray38.

I forked it from official master, and intend to pull from it again when
it moves (in a running state ! previously some commits in 3.7 get to a
non-working state, at least with some compilers).

Evolutions to integrate into hgpovray38 are forked from official master,
to ease, should it please power that be, an incorporation into official
code. (but I do not expect all of them to please, e.g. I have removed
the tiny rotation of text from hgpovray38, but it would be a long fight
I won't engage to ever get a removal of one line.)

Once done, I commit evolution on its own branch, push it on github and
yesterday havoc happened: I asked github a pull request to hgpovray and
it found a conflict, resolving the problem on website, it added a second
commit on the branch, then finished the pull on hgpovray38.

> I have my own 'povr' equivalent to 'hgpovray38' but I've been keeping
> all my branches un-merged so as to both be able to periodically re-base
> them to 'povray' master updates, but also so on merge I get only a
> branch's specific changes.
> 
> This allows me - and anyone else - to pull github published fixes and
> features into personal versions of povray. Usually with little or no
> effort beyond doing the pull from github ahead of a build. If later, I
> decide to exclude some feature, it's just a matter of not pulling it for
> the next 'povr' build.
> 

This assumes either preventive works, with no novelty, to check and
rebase every branches, without even warranting that the multiple
branches are compatible (or rather auto-mergeable), or that the
framework did not evolve so much as needing a total rewrite.

I have been proven wrong on the latter, and I have no interest for the
former.

Moreover, you have a "would-be-great-software-if-you-can-fusion"
solution, where I want a solution that I can use right now. The
difference between a modular vehicle you can change a lot of options,
but that you store as parts in your garage, and a ready to go vehicle in
my garage. Of course your garage is nice, but I'm too old for nice
modular everywhere, I just want a working vehicle without troubles
discovered during last minute assembly.

> If I do the usual:
> 
> git pull https://github.com/LeForgeron/povray.git feature/extended-mesh
> 
> and that branch has been merged into hgpovray, I believe I'll get all of
> the hgpovray updates at the point of the merge.

I have created a new branch feature/extended-mesh-proper to expose the
single commit of interest.

> 
> Probably, there is some way to pull the commit previous to the merge
> specifically - if I know to do it. However, what happens six months or
> two years from now when that branch's code has not been kept current to
> povray's master, but rather kept current with some other version of
> povray? I believe it becomes more and more difficult for others to make
> routine use of such fix and feature branches.

If povray's master get updated, I will adapt in, and only in,
hgpovray38. Maybe an intermediate branch will appeared for the fix, but
it will only focus on the new commits from master and their impacts on
the result found in hgpovray38.

I do not aim at maintaining the intermediates branches.

> 
> I'm asking for mostly selfish reasons. There are often patches by you,
> by Christoph with uberpov or others I want in my own routinely built
> working version. I don't want to switch to uberpov or hgpovray to use
> particular fixes and features. I want what I want all in my povr! This
> is only easy if branches are kept apart from any larger build over time
> and reasonably current to the povray master branch(1).

Good luck. I just want to keep hgpovray38 a bit ahead of master, tuned
to my desires and idea.

> 
> Bill P.
> 
> (1) - I understand that sometimes changes is such that keeping a branch
> apart gets difficult or impossible. But where it can be done, thinking
> it helpful.

But I never got any feedback on my changes (fix or extensions) during
hgpovray (3.7), so I rather find maintaining them useless (call that
motivation ?).
Before git, patches of povray were often available as diff from official
release, git makes it easier, but I doubt older patches would have been
ported to new versions if new versions came out as fast as commits naw.

I guess everyone dreams of superpatch and megapatch, but that's a story
from another time. Megapatch was a great work, but it seems a hell to
integrate the various proposals.

[William F Pokorny] Re: Suggested / desired new ray / trace functions [2806 days 15 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Tue, 31 Jul 2018 13:24:58 GMT

On 07/31/2018 09:20 AM, William F Pokorny wrote:
> On 07/31/2018 04:39 AM, Le Forgeron wrote:
>> Le 31/07/2018 Ã  04:32, dick balaska a Ã©critÂ :
>>> On 07/30/2018 07:46 PM, Bald Eagle wrote:
>>>
> ....

Sorry. No idea how I managed to cross post a response to advanced here.

Bill P.

[William F Pokorny] Re: Suggested / desired new ray / trace functions [2806 days 15 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Tue, 31 Jul 2018 13:20:09 GMT

On 07/31/2018 04:39 AM, Le Forgeron wrote:
> Le 31/07/2018 Ã  04:32, dick balaska a Ã©critÂ :
>> On 07/30/2018 07:46 PM, Bald Eagle wrote:
>>
....
> 
> 
> Nothing funky, and its all in my branch feature/extended-mesh, forked 
> fresh from official master branch
> 
> See if you want to pull it anywhere:
> 
> https://github.com/LeForgeron/povray/tree/feature/extended-mesh
> 
> The first commit is the patch,
> 
> The second commit is the merge into hgpovray38 (and you do not need it)

I've not got your experience with code control, so perhaps asking a 
stupid question.

Is there a reason you are not keeping your patches as independent 
branches periodically re-based to master instead of merging them back 
into hgpovray as posted on github?

I have my own 'povr' equivalent to 'hgpovray38' but I've been keeping 
all my branches un-merged so as to both be able to periodically re-base 
them to 'povray' master updates, but also so on merge I get only a 
branch's specific changes.

This allows me - and anyone else - to pull github published fixes and 
features into personal versions of povray. Usually with little or no 
effort beyond doing the pull from github ahead of a build. If later, I 
decide to exclude some feature, it's just a matter of not pulling it for 
the next 'povr' build.

If I do the usual:

git pull https://github.com/LeForgeron/povray.git feature/extended-mesh

and that branch has been merged into hgpovray, I believe I'll get all of 
the hgpovray updates at the point of the merge.

Probably, there is some way to pull the commit previous to the merge 
specifically - if I know to do it. However, what happens six months or 
two years from now when that branch's code has not been kept current to 
povray's master, but rather kept current with some other version of 
povray? I believe it becomes more and more difficult for others to make 
routine use of such fix and feature branches.

I'm asking for mostly selfish reasons. There are often patches by you, 
by Christoph with uberpov or others I want in my own routinely built 
working version. I don't want to switch to uberpov or hgpovray to use 
particular fixes and features. I want what I want all in my povr! This 
is only easy if branches are kept apart from any larger build over time 
and reasonably current to the povray master branch(1).

Bill P.

(1) - I understand that sometimes changes is such that keeping a branch 
apart gets difficult or impossible. But where it can be done, thinking 
it helpful.

[Normand Briere] Re: TC-RTC: Challenge 1 & 2: Final Results and..... [3131 days 8 hours and 54 minutes ago]

Sat, 9 Sep 2017 19:55:00 GMT

(THIS POST IS ALMOST IDENTICAL. It is only better formatted.)

> > "See you when we will all get together back next to God".
> >
>
> ...and that is exactly what is meant for the TC-RTC.
>
> >>
> >> I prefer au revoir.


"Au revoir" would have worked, but I am fine with the usage of "adieu" in this
case. I wanted to point it out because I don't think most people could fully
grasp the intention or meaning here. The closest in English is "farewell" or
"goodbye".


> But then how many people know that "goodbye" is an abbreviation of "God
> be with ye (you) or Goody* an abbreviation of Goodwife?
> *
> See Arthur Miller's "The Crucible"


I didn't know all these details about it for sure. But my theory on this is a
bit different.

The fact is that "bye" means "au revoir" which in turn means "see you" and this
is the common usage.

However if "bye" can also mean "let us leave each other" (for some time),
"goodbye" for me, would simply sound more definitive: "bye for good".

At least, this would be a more correct translation of "adieu" according to my
understanding of both French and English.

But don't worry, "ce n'est qu'un au revoir", this ain't good-bye!

[Normand Briere] Re: TC-RTC: Challenge 1 & 2: Final Results and..... [3131 days 12 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Sat, 9 Sep 2017 15:50:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 8-9-2017 18:01, Normand Briere wrote:
> >
> > Thanks to everybody indeed.
> >
> > Stay tuned, as we are about to announce the official debut of Noa of Arc.
> >
> > http://www.noaofarc.ca
> >
> >
> > Normand
> > P.S. "Adieu" in French is a very powerful word (literally "To God") which means
> > "See you when we will all get together back next to God".
> >
>
> ...and that is exactly what is meant for the TC-RTC.
>
> >>
> >> I prefer au revoir.

"Au revoir" would have worked, but I am fine with the usage of "adieu" in this
case.
I just pointed it out because I don't think most people could fully grasp the
intention
here. The closest in English is "farewell" of "goodbye".

> But then how many people know that "goodbye" is an abbreviation of "God
> be with ye (you) or Goody* an abbreviation of Goodwife?
> *
> See Arthur Miller's "The Crucible"

I didn't know all these details about it for sure. But my theory on this is a
bit different.

The fact is that "bye" means "au revoir" which in turn means "see you"

this is the common usage.

However if "bye" can also mean "let us leave each other" (for some time),
"goodbye" for me
would simply sound more definitive: "bye for good".

At least, this would be the correct translation of "adieu" according to what I
know about both
French and English.

But don't worry, "ce n'est qu'un au revoir", this ain't good-bye!

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC: Challenge 1 & 2: Final Results and..... [3131 days 17 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Sat, 9 Sep 2017 11:45:13 GMT

On 09/09/2017 12:06, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 9-9-2017 10:01, Stephen wrote:
>> On 08/09/2017 17:01, Normand Briere wrote:
>>> P.S. "Adieu" in French is a very powerful word (literally "To God") 
>>> which means
>>> "See you when we will all get together back next to God".
>>
>> I prefer au revoir.
>>
>>
> 
> The meaning is not as dramatic as Normand wants to suggest :-)
> 

So I surmise. Years ago I worked with a French speaking Canadian. He 
told me that Parisians find Canadian French sounds like 17th Century 
French. Quaint!
But then how many people know that "goodbye" is an abbreviation of "God 
be with ye (you) or Goody* an abbreviation of Goodwife?

*
See Arthur Miller's "The Crucible"

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC: Challenge 1 & 2: Final Results and..... [3131 days 17 hours and 42 minutes ago]

Sat, 9 Sep 2017 11:06:33 GMT

On 9-9-2017 10:01, Stephen wrote:
> On 08/09/2017 17:01, Normand Briere wrote:
>> P.S. "Adieu" in French is a very powerful word (literally "To God") 
>> which means
>> "See you when we will all get together back next to God".
> 
> I prefer au revoir.
> 
> 

The meaning is not as dramatic as Normand wants to suggest :-)

-- 
Thomas

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC: Challenge 1 & 2: Final Results and..... [3131 days 20 hours and 48 minutes ago]

Sat, 9 Sep 2017 08:01:26 GMT

On 08/09/2017 17:01, Normand Briere wrote:
> P.S. "Adieu" in French is a very powerful word (literally "To God") which means
> "See you when we will all get together back next to God".

I prefer au revoir.


-- 

See you.
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC: Challenge 1 & 2: Final Results and..... [3131 days 22 hours and 1 minute ago]

Sat, 9 Sep 2017 06:48:22 GMT

On 8-9-2017 18:01, Normand Briere wrote:
> 
> Thanks to everybody indeed.
> 
> Stay tuned, as we are about to announce the official debut of Noa of Arc.
> 
> http://www.noaofarc.ca
> 
> 
> Normand
> P.S. "Adieu" in French is a very powerful word (literally "To God") which means
> "See you when we will all get together back next to God".
> 

...and that is exactly what is meant for the TC-RTC.


-- 
Thomas

[Normand Briere] Re: TC-RTC: Challenge 1 & 2: Final Results and..... [3132 days 12 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Fri, 8 Sep 2017 16:05:00 GMT

Thanks to everybody indeed.

Stay tuned, as we are about to announce the official debut of Noa of Arc.

http://www.noaofarc.ca


Normand
P.S. "Adieu" in French is a very powerful word (literally "To God") which means
"See you when we will all get together back next to God".

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC: Challenge 1 & 2: Final Results and..... [3132 days 21 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Fri, 8 Sep 2017 07:18:37 GMT

On 7-9-2017 20:18, Stephen wrote:
> On 06/09/2017 08:30, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>
>> As our ways are parting, we have all of us been enriched by this 
>> shared experience. And we, as administrators, we say:
>>
Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 
*So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish!*
> 
> And I must mention my Thanks to Thomas for running the Site on his own 
> for years. All credit to him. It would not have been as good without him.
> 
> So join me in saying thank you, Thomas.

Nah! I got my hands dirty that is true, but sincerely, without Stephen's 
support, I would have quit much earlier. It was a fair and perfect 
collaboration. So, Stephen, get out of the wings and get your fair share 
of rotten tomatoes :-)

> 
> 
> 
>> but above all:
>>
Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 
*Thanks For Your Participation!*
> 
> Yes, *Thanks For Your Participation!*
> 
> 


-- 
Thomas

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC: Challenge 1 & 2: Final Results and..... [3133 days 10 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Thu, 7 Sep 2017 18:19:05 GMT

On 06/09/2017 08:30, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> 
> As our ways are parting, we have all of us been enriched by this shared 
> experience. And we, as administrators, we say:
> 
Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 
*So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish!*

And I must mention my Thanks to Thomas for running the Site on his own 
for years. All credit to him. It would not have been as good without him.

So join me in saying thank you, Thomas.

> but above all:
> 
Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 
*Thanks For Your Participation!*

Yes, *Thanks For Your Participation!*

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Paolo Gibellini] Re: TC-RTC: Challenge 1 & 2: Final Results and..... [3134 days 19 hours and 38 minutes ago]

Wed, 6 Sep 2017 09:10:42 GMT

Thomas de Groot wrote on 06/09/2017 09:30:
> And so we have come at last to the end of our long journey. A journey 
> not unlike Ulysses' for we have visited strange places on the Earth and 
> beyond, we have tasted strange fruits, and we have witnessed amazing 
> customs and rites. All this thanks to your imagination and skills.
> 
> As a temporary replacement for the Internet Ray Tracing competition, 
> TC-RTC was the brainchild of Steve Paget, a stalwart of the IRTC and the 
> Pov-Ray newsgroups. He designed it with Colin, the web developer who 
> hosts the site. Steve ran the site for three years and we have run it 
> for the last seven. As a temporary replacement for the IRTC, Tina Chep 
> has lasted almost as long as the original. That is twenty years of 
> almost continuous computer generated rendering competitions.
> 
> As our ways are parting, we have all of us been enriched by this shared 
> experience. And we, as administrators, we say:
> 
Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 
*So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish!*
> but above all:
> 
Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 
*Thanks For Your Participation!*
> 
> But it does not end here. A worthy successor to the TC-RTC has been 
> found in NOA OF ARC (http://www.noaofarc.ca/en-us/) which will continue 
> the tradition. Please go there and join!
> 
> Stephen & Thomas, Administrators
> 

IRTC was the origin of my first approach to POV-Ray (through Moray), and 
this competition (united perhaps to scc) will always remain in my memory 
because it was the expression of a world where art, math and code met. 
Mathematical artists, artistic developers and whatever combination: 
interesting and polite people. I waited impatiently for each round, and 
there was always something of very interesting.
TC-RTC has filled the gap due to the end of IRTC. It was organized in a 
somewhat different way, but there was a lot of enthusiastic people.

Now, I miss you already, *RTC.

Competitions for enthusiastic people are a good way to stimulate 
everyone to make the best of themselves, and usually there are many 
innovative elements, unlike in the contests for professionals.

In the last months I had no time for writing decent pov-code, but I'm 
always following the newsgroup and TC-RTC. Should we migrate to NOA OF 
ARC? Ok, let's get a try.

Stephen, Thomas and other Administrators, thank you for your efforts and 
for the service given.

Paolo

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Challenge 1 & 2: Final Results and.... A... [3134 days 21 hours and 18 minutes ago]

Wed, 6 Sep 2017 07:30:55 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html the results for the 
May/August 2017 Challenge 1 *My End Is My Beginning* are:

1	Seeds			SeanDay		498/498
2	Forever Young		DrNo		390/450
3	Universal		DrNo		371/431
4	Noa departure		lequenne	334/394
5	Ouroboros		JuuG		332/392

SeanDay did not vote and so the bonus points were not attributed to his 
image. However, this did not change the final results.


The results for the July/August 2017  Challenge 2 topic *Symmetry* are:

1	Atlantic Crossing		JuuG		316/376
2	Mountain Lake Sunset		rmcgregor	304/364
3	Reflect me			DrNo		287/347
4	Taj Mahal			DrNo		267/327

Congratulations to all the winners of these two challenges.

And so we have come at last to the end of our long journey. A journey 
not unlike Ulysses' for we have visited strange places on the Earth and 
beyond, we have tasted strange fruits, and we have witnessed amazing 
customs and rites. All this thanks to your imagination and skills.

As a temporary replacement for the Internet Ray Tracing competition, 
TC-RTC was the brainchild of Steve Paget, a stalwart of the IRTC and the 
Pov-Ray newsgroups. He designed it with Colin, the web developer who 
hosts the site. Steve ran the site for three years and we have run it 
for the last seven. As a temporary replacement for the IRTC, Tina Chep 
has lasted almost as long as the original. That is twenty years of 
almost continuous computer generated rendering competitions.

As our ways are parting, we have all of us been enriched by this shared 
experience. And we, as administrators, we say:
		*So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish!*
but above all:
		*Thanks For Your Participation!*

But it does not end here. A worthy successor to the TC-RTC has been 
found in NOA OF ARC (http://www.noaofarc.ca/en-us/) which will continue 
the tradition. Please go there and join!

Stephen & Thomas, Administrators

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenges 1 & 2: Voting started [3152 days 20 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Sat, 19 Aug 2017 08:02:59 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html both the Challenges 1 and 2 
have been closed for upload:

The Challenge 1 topic *My End is My Beginning...*;
The Challenge 2 topic *Symmetry*.

You are now kindly invited to vote for the uploaded images. You can do 
this till the end of the current month. Please do not forget to vote for 
*all* the images if you want your votes to be valid! Remember: this is 
absolutely mandatory.

These have been the last challenges of the TC-RTC!

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenge 2: LAST Challenge! [3211 days 17 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Wed, 21 Jun 2017 11:38:41 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html the Challenges 2 *Looking to 
the Future* has been closed for upload.

As only ONE image was uploaded to Challenge 2, please do not vote!

The final topic for Challenge 2 will be *Symmetry*. It will run from 
July 1st, 2017 till August 3st, 2017. See the website for further 
details on this topic.

-- 
Thomas & Stephen, administrators

[Normand Briere] Re: TC-RTC Challenges 1 & 2: Voting started and ... [3254 days 3 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Wed, 10 May 2017 01:00:01 GMT

> The next topic for Challenge 1 will be *My end is my beginning...*.

A Tina Chep profile group and a corresponding forum section have
been created for this round.

http://www.noaofarc.ca/forums/my-end-is-my-beginning

From the forum section one can directly go to the profile group using
the "Back to Group" button.

Or follow the thread I started about the approach for the "Forever Young"
entry. Hope you like the "Spoiler!" feature available when creating a
forum post...

Warning: in the group photos, another point of view of the scene will
reveal the trick of the endless staircase!


Normand

[Normand Briere] Re: TC_RTC Challenge 1: Voting results for Anniv... [3261 days 3 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Wed, 3 May 2017 00:50:00 GMT

> The voting results for the Challenge 1 Topic *Anniversary* are:
>
> 1 A Game Of Checkers  Ivanhoe  281 / 341
> 2 Ten of Hearts   DrNo  232 / 292
> 3 Birthday strawberry cake lequenne 221 / 281


The banner has been created accordingly. See all details in the Tina Chep forum:

http://www.noaofarc.ca/forums/tcrtc-anniversary

in the Round results section.


Thanks.


Normand alias DrNo

[Thomas de Groot] TC_RTC Challenge 1: Voting results for Anniversary [3261 days 21 hours and 32 minutes ago]

Tue, 2 May 2017 07:17:19 GMT

The voting results for the Challenge 1 Topic *Anniversary* are:

1	A Game Of Checkers		Ivanhoe		281 / 341
2	Ten of Hearts			DrNo		232 / 292
3	Birthday strawberry cake	lequenne	221 / 281
4	looking at you			lequenne	218 / 278
5	Tina luminum			DrNo		217 / 277
6	The Show must go on		lequenne	208 / 268
7	10				pokorny		206 / 266


Congratulations to the winners and sincere thanks to all who 
participated. As promised, Ivanhoe is to receive the key ring created by 
the late Steve Paget.

The next challenges have been announced on the web page at 
http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html .

Stephen & Thomas

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenges 1 & 2: Voting started and new ... [3276 days 20 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Mon, 17 Apr 2017 08:04:17 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html both the Challenges 1 and 2 
have been closed for upload:

The Challenge 1 topic *Anniversary*;
The Challenge 2 topic *And Now for Something Completely Different*.

You are now kindly invited to vote for the uploaded images. You can do 
this till the end of the current month. Please do not forget to vote for 
*all* the images if you want your votes to be valid! Remember: this is 
absolutely mandatory. However, as only ONE image was uploaded to 
Challenge 2, please do not vote for Challenge 2!

The next topic for Challenge 1 will be *My end is my beginning...*. It 
is also the very last Challenge in this category! It will run from May 
1st, 2017 till August 31th, 2017. Voting for this topic will start on 
August 17th, 2017. See the website for further details on this topic.

The next topic for Challenge 2 will be *Looking to the Future*. It will 
run from May 1st, 2017 till June 30th, 2017. Voting for this topic will 
start on June 16th, 2017. See the website for further details on this topic.

-- 
Thomas & Stephen, Administrators

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC forum: close down announcement [3307 days 16 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Fri, 17 Mar 2017 12:18:14 GMT

The insecure connection of http://tinachepforum.forumup.co.uk/ being 
confirmed, I have locked all TinaCheP Forums there. This means that, 
except for reading, no posting or editing is allowed anymore. With no 
new postings possible, the Forum will be automatically closed down 
within 30 days.

-- 
Thomas

[Normand Briere] Re: TC-RTC to close down in 2017 - Announcement [3317 days 8 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Tue, 7 Mar 2017 20:35:00 GMT

> @Normand: Yes, it cannot be assured that every entrant will have his images at
> the new site. But it would be convenient, to give you a general permission to
> copy the data to your site. I would like to do so, to save the time to upload
> all my poor content again.


Yes Michael, you are right, and I also thought about it. One way could
collect all user permissions and perform automatic extraction for these
users only. The email address is the key for this. If "support" receives
a confirmation from a user, we can transfer all the images of the TC_RTC
member corresponding to the email address the request has been sent from.

However, there are many destinations for transferring the pictures: the
user profile (private, no round), the Tina Chep profile (public, one group
per round), the picture gallery user category (private, no round), and/or
the public picture gallery round category.

The upcoming challenges will use the picture gallery structure (e.g.
http://dev.noware.ca/index.php/en-us/picture-gallery/public/noa).

> And last: if a new site will be created, the voting system should be questioned.
> E.g. since all software is allowed, the technical voting makes no sense to me.

The current rating system does not allow for more than one vote per image.
So the appreciation is simply one value from 1 to 20 overall with no category.
It makes things plain and simple.


Normand

[MichaelJF] Re: TC-RTC to close down in 2017 - Announcement [3317 days 9 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Tue, 7 Mar 2017 19:20:00 GMT

> I don't think that there is any point in asking the Dev because he
> answers when and if he feels like it. A major reason why I no longer
> feel like carrying on with it.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Regards
>      Stephen

Sad, but expected news somehow. If one could convince the Dev to allow bots for
the TC-RTC-site the archiving would be no problem. In this case the site would
be archived by the internet archive automatically, but is visible to Google too,
a trade off.

@Normand: Yes, it cannot be assured that every entrant will have his images at
the new site. But it would be convenient, to give you a general permission to
copy the data to your site. I would like to do so, to save the time to upload
all my poor content again.

And last: if a new site will be created, the voting system should be questioned.
E.g. since all software is allowed, the technical voting makes no sense to me.
An effect you can create with Blender at ease may be a real challenge with POV
(e.g. particle systems in this special comparison).

Best regards,
Michael

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC to close down in 2017 - Announcement [3317 days 19 hours and 47 minutes ago]

Tue, 7 Mar 2017 09:01:54 GMT

For your information: The forum [http://tinachepforum.forumup.co.uk/ 
seems to be (temporarily?) online again.

-- 
Thomas

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC to close down in 2017 - Announcement [3318 days 8 hours and 19 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Mar 2017 20:30:27 GMT

On 3/6/2017 8:09 PM, Normand Briere wrote:
> We expect to host to completely new rendering challenge called "Noa of Arc" to
> make clear that it is not a continuation of "Tina Chep". The TC-RTC was a
> replacement, not a continuation of IRTC, so NoA is meant to take over TC with
> similar rules, but completely different administration.


And with our blessing.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Normand Briere] Re: TC-RTC to close down in 2017 - Announcement [3318 days 8 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Mar 2017 20:15:00 GMT

clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Am 06.03.2017 um 09:32 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>
> > In September, both challenges will stop. However, the site will remain
> > up till the end of the year at least.
>
> Will there be someone archiving the site?

The "Noware" website (http://dev.noware.ca) has all the infrastructure to do so.
However, it cannot assume that all members actually agree with such a migration.
So one solution is to invite people to upload (again) their pictures in the
proper group (round) of the Tina Chep's profile and/or in the picture gallery
corresponding category.

We expect to host to completely new rendering challenge called "Noa of Arc" to
make clear that it is not a continuation of "Tina Chep". The TC-RTC was a
replacement, not a continuation of IRTC, so NoA is meant to take over TC with
similar rules, but completely different administration.

Normand

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC to close down in 2017 - Announcement [3318 days 15 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Mar 2017 13:43:28 GMT

On 3/6/2017 12:53 PM, clipka wrote:
> Am 06.03.2017 um 09:32 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>
>> In September, both challenges will stop. However, the site will remain
>> up till the end of the year at least.
>
> Will there be someone archiving the site?
>

Normand might, he has been archiving the forum.
That is why the site is being kept open until the end of the year. So 
that members can download their own images.
The link below used to go to an index where you could select which 
member's portfolio you wanted to view or download. But now it goes to my 
profile By going into the Archive section you can download the images by 
year and Challenge.

http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/portfolio/index.html

I don't think that there is any point in asking the Dev because he 
answers when and if he feels like it. A major reason why I no longer 
feel like carrying on with it.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[clipka] Re: TC-RTC to close down in 2017 - Announcement [3318 days 15 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Mar 2017 12:53:36 GMT

Am 06.03.2017 um 09:32 schrieb Thomas de Groot:

> In September, both challenges will stop. However, the site will remain
> up till the end of the year at least.

Will there be someone archiving the site?

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC to close down in 2017 - Announcement [3318 days 20 hours and 17 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Mar 2017 08:32:28 GMT

Ten years ago, Steve Paget took the initiative to launch the TC-RTC as a 
â€“ temporary â€“ replacement for the IRTC, after a
vivid discussion by 
concerned participants to the legendary defunct competition. During 
those ten years, we have witnessed the much regretted and untimely death 
of Steve in 2010, but also a succession of successful competitions, or 
challenges as Steve preferred to call them, yielding some of the most 
striking examples of computer graphics generated images.

When Stephen and I took over in 2010, we did not expect to be still 
here, ten years after the first competition. We have seen some 
fluctuations in the enthusiasm and readiness to contribute new work to 
the challenges. Indeed, the concept introduced by Steve for using book 
titles as competition headers has often been met with some confusion. 
Maybe we should have innovated at some time but we were keen to continue 
Steve's work and in his spirit.

However, after seven years of running the TC-RTC site, Stephen and I 
have come to the decision that we do not want to continue indefinitely. 
So we have decided to call it a day and to close down the site in the 
course of 2017. The times have changed and we do not expect that anyone 
is ready to take over our job and instil new life in the TC-RTC but if 
anybody feels the urge to do just that, he or she is welcome to contact us.

There is however, an alternative to the TC-RTC in the making. Normand 
BriÃ¨re, aka DrNo, a stalwart member and participant of the TC-RTC, has 
already launched and alternative forum 
[http://dev.noware.ca/index.php/en-us/forums/tc-rtc ] replacing the 
troubled TC-RTC one [http://tinachepforum.forumup.co.uk/]. He is 
planning to launch a new competition site when the current TC-RTC closes 
down. More information on that later. The current TC-RTC forum will 
remain active for the time being to enable comments and questions. 
However, it will be closed down later this year, and before the TC-RTC site.

The timetable for the remaining challenges in 2017 is as follows:

Challenge 1: After the current challenge, one last challenge will be 
proposed, running from May till August. *Remember that there are still 
two months left for the current challenge 'Anniversary'!*

Challenge 2: Three challenges of two months each will be proposed, 
ending in August.

In September, both challenges will stop. However, the site will remain 
up till the end of the year at least.

Remains for us to thank you all for your commitment and support.


Thomas and Stephen

[Normand Briere] Re: TC-RTC Challenges 1 & 2: Voting started and ... [3381 days 12 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Mon, 2 Jan 2017 16:00:01 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Please DO NOT (repeat: do not) publish any interim results before they
> are published officially by me or by Stephen. They are likely to be wrong.
>
> --
> Thomas

Yes sorry about that, but since Yves (lequenne) already had an entry
(the winner) in the top 3, and since I personally don't care, I thought
it was fine to put it the way I proposed.

But the rules are the rules, and for the standings to be fair, all entrants
MUST vote. Please send a reminder for the people who didn't vote for
them not to forget next time.

My apologies for the confusion.

Normand

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC Challenges 1 & 2: Voting started and ... [3381 days 15 hours and 47 minutes ago]

Mon, 2 Jan 2017 13:01:57 GMT

On 1-1-2017 21:09, Normand Briere wrote:
> Due to the discrepancy in the number of voters, we decided to create the
> Challenge 1
> banner according to the following order:
>

Please DO NOT (repeat: do not) publish any interim results before they 
are published officially by me or by Stephen. They are likely to be wrong.

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC Challenges 1 & 2: Voting started and ... [3381 days 15 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Mon, 2 Jan 2017 12:58:14 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html final voting results are as 
follows:

The results for the September/December 2016 Challenge 1 Dome of 
Many-Coloured Glass, by Amy Lowell (1874-1925)* are:

1	Art nouveau	lequenne	140/80
2	Xmas dome	lequenne	131/71
3	Soap Bar	DrNo		130/70
4	Nations	DrNo		121/61
5	Glass Dome	BaldEagle	98/98
5	Meditation	etcetcetc	98/98

Due to the fact that two participants did not vote, the bonus points 
were not attributed to their images, which changed the final results.


The results for the November/December 2016  Challenge 2 topic *Light in 
Darkness / Darkness in Light* are:

1	A Boy and his Dog		TenMoons	178/118
2	Will you enter			lequenne	165/105
3	Amor Vincit Mortem		DrNo		153/93

Congratulations to all the winners of these two challenges. The next 
challenges are announced on the web page.

-- 
Thomas

[Normand Briere] Re: TC-RTC Challenges 1 & 2: Voting started and ... [3382 days 8 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Sun, 1 Jan 2017 20:10:00 GMT

> At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html both the Challenges 1 and 2
> have been closed for upload:
>
> The Challenge 1 topic *Dome of Many-Coloured Glass, by Amy Lowell
> (1874-1925)*;
> The Challenge 2 topic *Light in Darkness / Darkness in Light*.
>
> You are now kindly invited to vote for the uploaded images. You can do
> this till the 31st of the current month. Please do not forget to vote
> for *all* the images if you want your votes to be valid! Remember: this
> is absolutely mandatory.
>
> --
> Thomas


Due to the discrepancy in the number of voters, we decided to create the
Challenge 1
banner according to the following order:

1. Art nouveau (lequenne)
2. Glass Dome (BaldEagle)
2. Meditation (etcetcetc)

The banner is available through the "Photos" tab of the "Dome of Many-Coloured
Glass" group
of the "Tina Chep" profile.

There is no button for automatic download, you have to click on the picture and
use "Save Image As..." of the browser context menu.

Make sure you don't download a coarse version. Normally the full version should
be
displayed in a slideshow screen mode on black background. You can save it from
there
because it is the only version which has the exact resolution of 996x195 pixels.

All other versions are coarser to make sure that the overall bandwidth is low.

NOTE: you can exit the full screen mode by clicking anywhere outside the black
background ("Esc" doesn't work).

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC Challenges and Forum news [3396 days 9 hours and 28 minutes ago]

Sun, 18 Dec 2016 19:21:11 GMT

On 12/18/2016 2:38 AM, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
> Stephen wrote:
>> On 12/17/2016 5:47 AM, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
>>> Sure,
>>> they're those silly, undersized Fahrenheit degrees, but still.  Welcome
>>> to Missouri.)
>>>
>>
>> Yes, you need more fingers and toes to count them.
>>
>>
>
> ....But that would involve taking off two pairs of socks,

Steady! You don't want to over excite the old men on the newsgroup. ;)


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC Challenges and Forum news [3396 days 13 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Sun, 18 Dec 2016 15:02:31 GMT

On 12/18/2016 2:32 AM, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
> Stephen wrote:
>> On 12/17/2016 11:17 AM, Stephen wrote:
>>> On 12/17/2016 5:47 AM, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
>>
>>>> Media Player ready
>>>> with inspirational bagpipe music and so forth--check.
>>>
>>> A woman with impeccable tastes.
>>>
>>
>> And in the Christmas spirit, just for you.
>>
>> http://vocaroo.com/i/s1fdr0Wo3wNx
>>
>>
>
> Wow!
>

It is a clip from a Tony Hawks (the guy who hitchhiked around Ireland 
with a fridge) Christmas program where he costed all the gifts in the 12 
days of Christmas carol. He even got Ten Lords* a Leaping from the house 
of Lords.

* A bit of a cheat as two of them were Ladies. ;)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenges 1 & 2: Voting started and SPEC... [3396 days 19 hours and 53 minutes ago]

Sun, 18 Dec 2016 08:56:05 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html both the Challenges 1 and 2 
have been closed for upload:

The Challenge 1 topic *Dome of Many-Coloured Glass, by Amy Lowell 
(1874-1925)*;
The Challenge 2 topic *Light in Darkness / Darkness in Light*.

You are now kindly invited to vote for the uploaded images. You can do 
this till the 31st of the current month. Please do not forget to vote 
for *all* the images if you want your votes to be valid! Remember: this 
is absolutely mandatory.

------ TAKE NOTE! --------
In January 2007, the *Tina Chep Render Time Challenge* was launched for 
the first time by Steve Paget. Ten years of great and often outstanding 
images by talented artists have followed. We want to celebrate this 
special anniversary with a special price for the best image of this 
Challenge: the silver-and-gold key holder once made by Steve Paget 
himself! Thomas de Groot who was its first owner, will pass it on to the 
new winner.

Therefore, the next topic for Challenge 1 will be *Anniversary*. It will 
run from January 1st, 2017 till April 30th, 2017. Voting for this topic 
will start April 17th, 2017. Of course, we want you to give us an 
unexpected and challenging view on the topic.

The next topic for Challenge 2 will be announced asap.

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC Challenges and Forum news [3396 days 20 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Sun, 18 Dec 2016 07:58:55 GMT

On 18-12-2016 3:38, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
> Stephen wrote:
>> On 12/17/2016 5:47 AM, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
>>> Sure,
>>> they're those silly, undersized Fahrenheit degrees, but still.  Welcome
>>> to Missouri.)
>>>
>>
>> Yes, you need more fingers and toes to count them.
>>
>>
>
> ...But that would involve taking off two pairs of socks, so I suppose
> I'll just have to guess.
>

No science without suffering. ;-)


-- 
Thomas

[Sherry K Shaw] Re: TC-RTC Challenges and Forum news [3397 days 2 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Sun, 18 Dec 2016 02:37:37 GMT

Stephen wrote:
> On 12/17/2016 5:47 AM, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
>> Sure,
>> they're those silly, undersized Fahrenheit degrees, but still.  Welcome
>> to Missouri.)
>>
>
> Yes, you need more fingers and toes to count them.
>
>

...But that would involve taking off two pairs of socks, so I suppose 
I'll just have to guess.

--Sherry Shaw

-- 
#macro T(E,N)sphere{x,.4rotate z*E*60translate y*N pigment{wrinkles scale
.3}finish{ambient 1}}#end#local I=0;#while(I<5)T(I,1)T(1-I,-1)#local I=I+
1;#end camera{location-5*z}plane{z,37 pigment{granite color_map{[.7rgb 0]
[1rgb 1]}}finish{ambient 2}}//                                   TenMoons

[Sherry K Shaw] Re: TC-RTC Challenges and Forum news [3397 days 2 hours and 17 minutes ago]

Sun, 18 Dec 2016 02:31:55 GMT

Stephen wrote:
> On 12/17/2016 11:17 AM, Stephen wrote:
>> On 12/17/2016 5:47 AM, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
>
>>> Media Player ready
>>> with inspirational bagpipe music and so forth--check.
>>
>> A woman with impeccable tastes.
>>
>
> And in the Christmas spirit, just for you.
>
> http://vocaroo.com/i/s1fdr0Wo3wNx
>
>

Wow!

--Sherry Shaw

-- 
#macro T(E,N)sphere{x,.4rotate z*E*60translate y*N pigment{wrinkles scale
.3}finish{ambient 1}}#end#local I=0;#while(I<5)T(I,1)T(1-I,-1)#local I=I+
1;#end camera{location-5*z}plane{z,37 pigment{granite color_map{[.7rgb 0]
[1rgb 1]}}finish{ambient 2}}//                                   TenMoons

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC Challenges and Forum news [3397 days 6 hours and 33 minutes ago]

Sat, 17 Dec 2016 22:16:24 GMT

On 12/17/2016 11:17 AM, Stephen wrote:
> On 12/17/2016 5:47 AM, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:

>> Media Player ready
>> with inspirational bagpipe music and so forth--check.
>
> A woman with impeccable tastes.
>

And in the Christmas spirit, just for you.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1fdr0Wo3wNx


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC Challenges and Forum news [3397 days 14 hours and 28 minutes ago]

Sat, 17 Dec 2016 14:20:41 GMT

On 12/17/2016 12:30 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>
>> Have you stopped reading the news, Thomas?
>
> I wish I had... but somehow I always keep a little glimmer of hope...
>

I remember being told that the end days were nigh. When the Euro was 
launched. I got quotes out of Revelations to prove it, as well.

>>
>>>> We shall keep an eye on you, especially in a month's time.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yes Big Brother is always looking out.
>
> Yep! [dusting off Superman suit]

By darkest day and brightest night. No goodness shall escape my sight.

Or something like that. ;-)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC Challenges and Forum news [3397 days 16 hours and 19 minutes ago]

Sat, 17 Dec 2016 12:30:25 GMT

On 17-12-2016 12:17, Stephen wrote:
> On 12/17/2016 5:47 AM, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
>> Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>> On 16-12-2016 8:09, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
>>>> Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>>>
>
>>>
>>> Yes, I was afraid that would happen. I asked Normand to open up the site
>>> /only/ when he was sure everything was working correctly but he insisted
>>> on going live asap. Ah! youthful eagerness :-)
>>
>>
>> Kids!  (Shakes head.)  Well, really, what can you do?
>>
>>
> Keep them in a barrel for the first 21 years of their life. Then drive
> in the bung hole. ;)
>
>
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> I am not involved with the forum any more but I shall bring your
>>> petition to the attention of Normand of course.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your help!  (I found the Terms and Conditions to be quite
>> interesting reading, as was the Privacy Policy.)
>>
>>
>
> So interesting that I don't want anything to do with it.

On a serious note indeed: I want to ask everybody who wants to join to 
*read* those documents first with care! I agree with Stephen.

>
>
>>>>
>>>> * (1) The Cubs won the Series.  (2) A couple of days later, I was
>>>> making
>>>> breakfast and my egg was a double-yolker, the first I've seen in years
>>>> and years.
>
> I have not seen one for donkey's years.
>
>> (Didn't stop me from cooking it over-easy and having it with
>>>> a slice of whole-wheat toast.  Yum!)  (3)  Heavy sigh.  You know.  But
>>>> maybe the Electoral College will fix everything.  Yes, I signed the
>>>> petition...so, if I mysteriously disappear, well, you'll know what
>>>> happened...
>>>>
>>>
>
> <Kiddies voice>
> Lies, she was not harmed but raptured.
>
> </Kiddies voice>
>
>>> The Last Days seem to have been extended, at least for the time being.
>
> Have you stopped reading the news, Thomas?

I wish I had... but somehow I always keep a little glimmer of hope...

>
>>> We shall keep an eye on you, especially in a month's time.
>>>
>>
>
> Yes Big Brother is always looking out.

Yep! [dusting off Superman suit]

>
>>
>> Thank you.  I appreciate the sentiment.  Now:  Canned food--check.
>> Bottled water--check.  BB gun loaded--check.
>
> And you call yourself a true blooded American woman? Shame on you.
> At least three hand guns, a over and under shotgun and a snipers rifle
> are the minimum requirements.
>
>> Dogs primed and ready to
>> bark--check.  Cat set to Full Insanity Mode--check.
>
> Sharp intake of breath.
>
>> Media Player ready
>> with inspirational bagpipe music and so forth--check.
>
> A woman with impeccable tastes.
>
>> Electric blanket
>> plugged in--check.  (Because, never mind Armageddon--sometime in the
>> next twelve hours, if the meteorologists are correct, the temperature
>> here is going to drop about fifty degrees, rather abruptly.
>
> I assume it was made from a sustainable source using Philip K. Dick's
> Electric Sheep?
>
>> Sure,
>> they're those silly, undersized Fahrenheit degrees, but still.  Welcome
>> to Missouri.)
>>
>
> Yes, you need more fingers and toes to count them.
>
>
>


-- 
Thomas

[Normand Briere] Re: TC-RTC Challenges and Forum news [3397 days 16 hours and 19 minutes ago]

Sat, 17 Dec 2016 12:30:01 GMT

> > I am not involved with the forum any more but I shall bring your
> > petition to the attention of Normand of course.
> >
>
>
> Thanks for your help!  (I found the Terms and Conditions to be quite
> interesting reading, as was the Privacy Policy.)


Well it is more up to /me/ to thank Thomas for the follow-up!

Since the overall website navigation is menu-based, a link usually leads to a
page with related stuff.

These readings are very generic, and in any case, you are not actually required
to enter your real personal data, so why would you care. Even the email address
is not necessary, though you have to supply one for technical reasons (any a@b.c
is fine).

When it comes to enter some credit card information however, then of course, you
are no longer as anonymous.

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC Challenges and Forum news [3397 days 17 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Sat, 17 Dec 2016 11:17:59 GMT

On 12/17/2016 5:47 AM, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
> Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 16-12-2016 8:09, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
>>> Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>>

>>
>> Yes, I was afraid that would happen. I asked Normand to open up the site
>> /only/ when he was sure everything was working correctly but he insisted
>> on going live asap. Ah! youthful eagerness :-)
>
>
> Kids!  (Shakes head.)  Well, really, what can you do?
>
>
Keep them in a barrel for the first 21 years of their life. Then drive 
in the bung hole. ;)


>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> I am not involved with the forum any more but I shall bring your
>> petition to the attention of Normand of course.
>>
>
>
> Thanks for your help!  (I found the Terms and Conditions to be quite
> interesting reading, as was the Privacy Policy.)
>
>

So interesting that I don't want anything to do with it.


>>>
>>> * (1) The Cubs won the Series.  (2) A couple of days later, I was making
>>> breakfast and my egg was a double-yolker, the first I've seen in years
>>> and years.

I have not seen one for donkey's years.

> (Didn't stop me from cooking it over-easy and having it with
>>> a slice of whole-wheat toast.  Yum!)  (3)  Heavy sigh.  You know.  But
>>> maybe the Electoral College will fix everything.  Yes, I signed the
>>> petition...so, if I mysteriously disappear, well, you'll know what
>>> happened...
>>>
>>

<Kiddies voice>
Lies, she was not harmed but raptured.

</Kiddies voice>

>> The Last Days seem to have been extended, at least for the time being.

Have you stopped reading the news, Thomas?

>> We shall keep an eye on you, especially in a month's time.
>>
>

Yes Big Brother is always looking out.

>
> Thank you.  I appreciate the sentiment.  Now:  Canned food--check.
> Bottled water--check.  BB gun loaded--check.

And you call yourself a true blooded American woman? Shame on you.
At least three hand guns, a over and under shotgun and a snipers rifle 
are the minimum requirements.

> Dogs primed and ready to
> bark--check.  Cat set to Full Insanity Mode--check.

Sharp intake of breath.

> Media Player ready
> with inspirational bagpipe music and so forth--check.

A woman with impeccable tastes.

> Electric blanket
> plugged in--check.  (Because, never mind Armageddon--sometime in the
> next twelve hours, if the meteorologists are correct, the temperature
> here is going to drop about fifty degrees, rather abruptly.

I assume it was made from a sustainable source using Philip K. Dick's 
Electric Sheep?

> Sure,
> they're those silly, undersized Fahrenheit degrees, but still.  Welcome
> to Missouri.)
>

Yes, you need more fingers and toes to count them.



-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC Challenges and Forum news [3397 days 20 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Sat, 17 Dec 2016 08:00:18 GMT

On 17-12-2016 6:47, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
> Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 16-12-2016 8:09, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
>>> Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>>
>>>> While the new forum may still have some minor beta testing to do, it is
>>>> fully functional and we kindly invite you all if you are so inclined to
>>>> visit the (temporary) link:
>>>> http://dev.noware.ca/index.php/en-us/forums/tc-rtc  and (maybe?)
>>>> sign up
>>>> to the new forum.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There seem to be a few difficulties.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I was afraid that would happen. I asked Normand to open up the site
>> /only/ when he was sure everything was working correctly but he insisted
>> on going live asap. Ah! youthful eagerness :-)
>
>
> Kids!  (Shakes head.)  Well, really, what can you do?

Waiting for spring. :-)

>
>
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> I am not involved with the forum any more but I shall bring your
>> petition to the attention of Normand of course.
>>
>
>
> Thanks for your help!  (I found the Terms and Conditions to be quite
> interesting reading, as was the Privacy Policy.)

:-)

>
>
>>>
>>> Well, maybe it's just me, but at least I tried.
>>
>> I guess that you are not alone in this.
>>
>>>
>>> --Sherry Shaw
>>>
>>> * (1) The Cubs won the Series.  (2) A couple of days later, I was making
>>> breakfast and my egg was a double-yolker, the first I've seen in years
>>> and years.  (Didn't stop me from cooking it over-easy and having it with
>>> a slice of whole-wheat toast.  Yum!)  (3)  Heavy sigh.  You know.  But
>>> maybe the Electoral College will fix everything.  Yes, I signed the
>>> petition...so, if I mysteriously disappear, well, you'll know what
>>> happened...
>>>
>>
>> The Last Days seem to have been extended, at least for the time being.
>> We shall keep an eye on you, especially in a month's time.
>>
>
>
> Thank you.  I appreciate the sentiment.  Now:  Canned food--check.
> Bottled water--check.  BB gun loaded--check.  Dogs primed and ready to
> bark--check.  Cat set to Full Insanity Mode--check.  Media Player ready
> with inspirational bagpipe music and so forth--check.  Electric blanket
> plugged in--check.  (Because, never mind Armageddon--sometime in the
> next twelve hours, if the meteorologists are correct, the temperature
> here is going to drop about fifty degrees, rather abruptly.  Sure,
> they're those silly, undersized Fahrenheit degrees, but still.  Welcome
> to Missouri.)
>

The cat set at FIM is one of the most successful defences I know of. 
 From my experience, only to be used at last resort of course.

Good luck with the temperature drop. Always reminds me how blessed we 
are here with the Gulf Stream.


-- 
Thomas

[Sherry K Shaw] Re: TC-RTC Challenges and Forum news [3397 days 23 hours and 2 minutes ago]

Sat, 17 Dec 2016 05:47:18 GMT

Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 16-12-2016 8:09, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
>> Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>
>>> While the new forum may still have some minor beta testing to do, it is
>>> fully functional and we kindly invite you all if you are so inclined to
>>> visit the (temporary) link:
>>> http://dev.noware.ca/index.php/en-us/forums/tc-rtc  and (maybe?) sign up
>>> to the new forum.
>>>
>>
>> There seem to be a few difficulties.
>>
>
> Yes, I was afraid that would happen. I asked Normand to open up the site
> /only/ when he was sure everything was working correctly but he insisted
> on going live asap. Ah! youthful eagerness :-)


Kids!  (Shakes head.)  Well, really, what can you do?


>
> [snip]
>
> I am not involved with the forum any more but I shall bring your
> petition to the attention of Normand of course.
>


Thanks for your help!  (I found the Terms and Conditions to be quite 
interesting reading, as was the Privacy Policy.)


>>
>> Well, maybe it's just me, but at least I tried.
>
> I guess that you are not alone in this.
>
>>
>> --Sherry Shaw
>>
>> * (1) The Cubs won the Series.  (2) A couple of days later, I was making
>> breakfast and my egg was a double-yolker, the first I've seen in years
>> and years.  (Didn't stop me from cooking it over-easy and having it with
>> a slice of whole-wheat toast.  Yum!)  (3)  Heavy sigh.  You know.  But
>> maybe the Electoral College will fix everything.  Yes, I signed the
>> petition...so, if I mysteriously disappear, well, you'll know what
>> happened...
>>
>
> The Last Days seem to have been extended, at least for the time being.
> We shall keep an eye on you, especially in a month's time.
>


Thank you.  I appreciate the sentiment.  Now:  Canned food--check. 
Bottled water--check.  BB gun loaded--check.  Dogs primed and ready to 
bark--check.  Cat set to Full Insanity Mode--check.  Media Player ready 
with inspirational bagpipe music and so forth--check.  Electric blanket 
plugged in--check.  (Because, never mind Armageddon--sometime in the 
next twelve hours, if the meteorologists are correct, the temperature 
here is going to drop about fifty degrees, rather abruptly.  Sure, 
they're those silly, undersized Fahrenheit degrees, but still.  Welcome 
to Missouri.)

--Sherry Shaw

-- 
#macro T(E,N)sphere{x,.4rotate z*E*60translate y*N pigment{wrinkles scale
.3}finish{ambient 1}}#end#local I=0;#while(I<5)T(I,1)T(1-I,-1)#local I=I+
1;#end camera{location-5*z}plane{z,37 pigment{granite color_map{[.7rgb 0]
[1rgb 1]}}finish{ambient 2}}//                                   TenMoons

[Normand Briere] Re: TC-RTC Challenges and Forum news [3398 days 13 hours and 54 minutes ago]

Fri, 16 Dec 2016 14:55:00 GMT

> > Noware is temporarily redirected to:
> >
> > http://dev.noware.ca/
> >
> > You can still create an account, but your bookmarks won't work.
> >
> > The official URL will come back soon.


Our apologies for any inconvenience caused, but because of server configuration
problems on the "www" domain the site had to be redirected to "dev".

However all internal addresses (such as "Terms of Use") starting with "www" are
currently redirected to the main home only and this should never happen. The
link has been fixed now.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC Challenges and Forum news [3398 days 20 hours and 13 minutes ago]

Fri, 16 Dec 2016 08:35:56 GMT

On 16-12-2016 8:46, omniverse wrote:
> Lower half of that page is in English, redirecting back to out to home page
> afterward, and says:
>
> Noware is temporarily redirected to:
>
> http://dev.noware.ca/
>
> You can still create an account, but your bookmarks won't work.
>
> The website will come back soon.
>

Yes, that seems to be the - temporary - page for the forum at this moment...


-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC Challenges and Forum news [3398 days 20 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Fri, 16 Dec 2016 08:28:09 GMT

On 16-12-2016 8:09, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
> Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
>> While the new forum may still have some minor beta testing to do, it is
>> fully functional and we kindly invite you all if you are so inclined to
>> visit the (temporary) link:
>> http://dev.noware.ca/index.php/en-us/forums/tc-rtc  and (maybe?) sign up
>> to the new forum.
>>
>
> There seem to be a few difficulties.
>

Yes, I was afraid that would happen. I asked Normand to open up the site 
/only/ when he was sure everything was working correctly but he insisted 
on going live asap. Ah! youthful eagerness :-)

[snip]

I am not involved with the forum any more but I shall bring your 
petition to the attention of Normand of course.

>
> Well, maybe it's just me, but at least I tried.

I guess that you are not alone in this.

>
> --Sherry Shaw
>
> * (1) The Cubs won the Series.  (2) A couple of days later, I was making
> breakfast and my egg was a double-yolker, the first I've seen in years
> and years.  (Didn't stop me from cooking it over-easy and having it with
> a slice of whole-wheat toast.  Yum!)  (3)  Heavy sigh.  You know.  But
> maybe the Electoral College will fix everything.  Yes, I signed the
> petition...so, if I mysteriously disappear, well, you'll know what
> happened...
>

The Last Days seem to have been extended, at least for the time being. 
We shall keep an eye on you, especially in a month's time.

-- 
Thomas

[omniverse] Re: TC-RTC Challenges and Forum news [3398 days 20 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Fri, 16 Dec 2016 07:50:00 GMT

"Sherry K. Shaw" <ten### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
> > While the new forum may still have some minor beta testing to do, it is
> > fully functional and we kindly invite you all if you are so inclined to
> > visit the (temporary) link:
> > http://dev.noware.ca/index.php/en-us/forums/tc-rtc  and (maybe?) sign up
> > to the new forum.
> >
>
> There seem to be a few difficulties.
>
> Gurgle Chrome utterly refused to load the page.  (Admittedly, I have an
> ancient PC and a paleolithic ISP, so perhaps that's the source of the
> problem.  It often is.)
>
> Seamonkey (my personal no-bells-and-whistles choice for these
> newsgroups) loaded the page without difficulty, and I was able to reach
> the "sign up" page.  "Terms and conditions," however, was problematic.
> That link sent me to a very briefly visible page in French (I think;
> doubtful that I could have read much of it in English or Klingon either
> for that matter), followed by an immediate redirect to a page that
> didn't seem to have anything to do with Terms and Conditions.  Well,
> call me paranoid (we are, after all, living in the Last Days*), but I
> found that troubling and just backed out.

Lower half of that page is in English, redirecting back to out to home page
afterward, and says:

Noware is temporarily redirected to:

http://dev.noware.ca/

You can still create an account, but your bookmarks won't work.

The website will come back soon.

[Sherry K Shaw] Re: TC-RTC Challenges and Forum news [3398 days 21 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Fri, 16 Dec 2016 07:09:26 GMT

Thomas de Groot wrote:

> While the new forum may still have some minor beta testing to do, it is
> fully functional and we kindly invite you all if you are so inclined to
> visit the (temporary) link:
> http://dev.noware.ca/index.php/en-us/forums/tc-rtc  and (maybe?) sign up
> to the new forum.
>

There seem to be a few difficulties.

Gurgle Chrome utterly refused to load the page.  (Admittedly, I have an 
ancient PC and a paleolithic ISP, so perhaps that's the source of the 
problem.  It often is.)

Seamonkey (my personal no-bells-and-whistles choice for these 
newsgroups) loaded the page without difficulty, and I was able to reach 
the "sign up" page.  "Terms and conditions," however, was problematic. 
That link sent me to a very briefly visible page in French (I think; 
doubtful that I could have read much of it in English or Klingon either 
for that matter), followed by an immediate redirect to a page that 
didn't seem to have anything to do with Terms and Conditions.  Well, 
call me paranoid (we are, after all, living in the Last Days*), but I 
found that troubling and just backed out.

Well, maybe it's just me, but at least I tried.

--Sherry Shaw

* (1) The Cubs won the Series.  (2) A couple of days later, I was making 
breakfast and my egg was a double-yolker, the first I've seen in years 
and years.  (Didn't stop me from cooking it over-easy and having it with 
a slice of whole-wheat toast.  Yum!)  (3)  Heavy sigh.  You know.  But 
maybe the Electoral College will fix everything.  Yes, I signed the 
petition...so, if I mysteriously disappear, well, you'll know what 
happened...

-- 
#macro T(E,N)sphere{x,.4rotate z*E*60translate y*N pigment{wrinkles scale
.3}finish{ambient 1}}#end#local I=0;#while(I<5)T(I,1)T(1-I,-1)#local I=I+
1;#end camera{location-5*z}plane{z,37 pigment{granite color_map{[.7rgb 0]
[1rgb 1]}}finish{ambient 2}}//                                   TenMoons

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenges and Forum news [3410 days 20 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Sun, 4 Dec 2016 08:28:21 GMT

With just 13 days to go at http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html for 
the last two Challenges of the year, let me remind you that there is 
still time to participate :-)


As you all probably know by now, the TC-RTC forum has been down for 
several months and, at this stage, is not expected to come back online 
in the future.

Normand Briere (aka DrNo) has taken the initiative to create a new forum 
dedicated to the TC-RTC, in the same way as the supposedly defunct forum 
was operating.

While the new forum may still have some minor beta testing to do, it is 
fully functional and we kindly invite you all if you are so inclined to 
visit the (temporary) link: 
http://dev.noware.ca/index.php/en-us/forums/tc-rtc  and (maybe?) sign up 
to the new forum.

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenge 2: Voting started [3456 days 20 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Wed, 19 Oct 2016 07:58:31 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html the Challenge 2 topic 
*Confessions of a Beachcomber* has been closed for upload.

You are now kindly invited to vote for the uploaded images. You can do 
this till the 31st of the current month. Please do not forget to vote 
for *all* the images if you want your votes to be valid! Remember: this 
is absolutely mandatory. Please remember that this is the fourth and 
last instalment of the series.

The next topic for Challenge 2  will be *Light in Darkness / Darkness in 
Light*. Visit the webpage for details about this particular challenge. 
It will run from November 1st, 2016 till December 31st, 2016. Voting for 
the topic will start December 18th, 2016.


Stephen & Thomas, Administrators

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenges 1 & 2: Voting Results [3503 days 17 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Fri, 2 Sep 2016 11:34:14 GMT

As usual, complete results are also presented at: 
http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

Challenge 1: The Metal Monster
1  Ivanhoe      Shepherd                230 /290
2  kernit       colonisation            222 /282
3  rmcgregor    Titan                   206 /266
4  ThomdeG      Oedipus                 204 / 264
5  ThomdeG      Ant Queen               193 / 253
6  lequenne     Real Tremendous Car     190 / 250
7  lequenne     pleasure robot slaves   173 / 233
8  DrNo         Crazy Train             168 / 228
9  DrNo         Quad                    162 / 222
9  DrNo         Unfair                  162 / 222

Challenge 2: The Professor at the Breakfast Table
1  DrNo         Literature Wind          89 / 149
2  lequenne     historical breakfast     85 / 145

Congratulations to the winners!

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenges 1 & 2: Voting started [3517 days 17 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Fri, 19 Aug 2016 11:18:06 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html both the Challenges 1 and 2 
have been closed for upload:

The Challenge 1 topic *The Metal Monster*;
The Challenge 2 topic *The Professor at the Breakfast Table*.

You are now kindly invited to vote for the uploaded images. You can do 
this till the 31st of the current month. Please do not forget to vote 
for *all* the images if you want your votes to be valid! Remember: this 
is absolutely mandatory.

The next topic for Challenge 1 will be *Dome of Many-coloured Glass, by 
Amy Lowell (1874-1925)* it will run from September 1st, 2016 till 
December 31st, 2016. Voting for the topic will start December 18th, 2016.

The next topic for Challenge 2  will be *Confessions of a Beachcomber* 
and will be the fourth and last instalment of the challenge series. 
Visit the webpage for details about this particular challenge. It will 
run from September 1st, 2016 till October 31st, 2016. Voting for the 
topic will start October 18th, 2016.


-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenge 2 (Instalment #2): The Sinking ... [3550 days 21 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Sun, 17 Jul 2016 07:14:09 GMT

As usual, complete results are also presented at: 
http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

1. Lequenne: A naughty wave 208 / 268
2. DrNo: Distraction        193 / 253
3. DrNo: Open your eyes     184 / 244

Congratulations to the winners!

-- 
Thomas

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC Challenge 2: Voting for The Sinking o... [3566 days 16 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 Jul 2016 11:59:45 GMT

On 7/1/2016 12:17 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 1-7-2016 10:05, Stephen wrote:
>> On 7/1/2016 8:48 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>> On 1-7-2016 9:37, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>>> At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html
>>>>
>>>> .... You can do this till the end of the
>>>> current month.
>>>
>>> Aargh! till the 14th of the current month!
>>>
>>
>> :-)
>>
> It is so easy to overlook details. You notice them only when you have
> hit the send key. Grrr.... ;-)
>

Yes, check, double check and make a mistake elsewhere. :(

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC Challenge 2: Voting for The Sinking o... [3566 days 17 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 Jul 2016 11:17:59 GMT

On 1-7-2016 10:05, Stephen wrote:
> On 7/1/2016 8:48 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 1-7-2016 9:37, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>> At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html
>>>
>>> .... You can do this till the end of the
>>> current month.
>>
>> Aargh! till the 14th of the current month!
>>
>
> :-)
>
It is so easy to overlook details. You notice them only when you have 
hit the send key. Grrr.... ;-)

-- 
Thomas

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC Challenge 2: Voting for The Sinking o... [3566 days 20 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 Jul 2016 08:05:06 GMT

On 7/1/2016 8:48 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 1-7-2016 9:37, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html
>>
>> .... You can do this till the end of the
>> current month.
>
> Aargh! till the 14th of the current month!
>

:-)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC Challenge 2: Voting for The Sinking o... [3566 days 21 hours ago]

Fri, 1 Jul 2016 07:48:42 GMT

On 1-7-2016 9:37, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html
>
> .... You can do this till the end of the
> current month.

Aargh! till the 14th of the current month!

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenge 2: Voting for The Sinking of th... [3566 days 21 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 Jul 2016 07:38:01 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

The Challenge 2 round *The Sinking of the Titanic and Great Sea 
Disasters*, has been closed for upload. You are now kindly invited to 
vote for the uploaded images. You can do this till the end of the 
current month. Please do not forget to vote for *all* the images if you 
want your votes to be valid! Remember: this is absolutely mandatory.

The next theme for Challenge 2 is *The Professor at the Breakfast 
Table*, starting on July 15th  and ending August 31st. Uploading closes 
August 17th;  voting starts August 18th.

Important! Please read the instructions for the new, experimental, type 
of challenge on the site. This is the third instalment of the series.

Stephen & Thomas, Administrators

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenge 2 (Instalment #1): Pastry, Cake... [3596 days 16 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Wed, 1 Jun 2016 12:14:10 GMT

As usual, complete results are also presented at: 
http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

  1. 	Teatime	Ivanhoe	365 /425
  2. 	Praline	Ivanhoe	346 / 406
  3. 	Macarons in the Morning	jhu1	343 / 403
  4. 	Jelly	Ivanhoe	315 / 375
  5. 	Adephagia	JuuG	313 / 373
  6. 	Cop Cakes	DrNo	289 / 349
  7. 	Sweet Love	DrNo	278 / 338

Congratulations to the winners!

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC Challenge 2: Voting for Pastry etc. &... [3610 days 16 hours and 53 minutes ago]

Wed, 18 May 2016 11:56:19 GMT

On 18-5-2016 13:35, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> The second instalment will have the following topic: "The Sinking of the
> Titanic and Great Sea Disasters". This will run from June 1st, 2016
> until July 14th, 2016. Voting for this instalment will start on July
> 15th, 2016.
>

Small correction: Voting starts on July 1st, not July 15th!

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenge 2: Voting for Pastry etc. & and... [3610 days 17 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Wed, 18 May 2016 11:35:17 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

The Challenge 2 topic: *Pastry, Cakes and Sweetmeats*, is open for 
voting now. Remember the voting rules and make your selection.

*Announcement*
The topic "Pastry, Cakes and Sweetmeats" is the first instalment of a 
new â€“ experimental â€“ series of challenges to be run
under the Challenge 
2 heading. This new series will consist of four successive instalments 
in total. The first three, disclosed one at a time, will be considered 
independent from each other. However, members will be encouraged to use 
elements from  the preceding instalment(s) as the Challenges progress. 
Somehow, the three first instalments will have to be part of a whole 
which will be disclosed with the fourth instalment.

The fourth instalment shall have to include and combine 
elements/reminders/hints from all previous instalments into one, 
encompassing, work within the given topic for the instalment. Failing to 
do so will cost voting points for the fourth instalment.

There is no obligation for the members to participate in all the 
instalments of a series but even so they have to follow the rules above.

A special case concerns the participation of the administrators 
themselves. They can freely participate and be judged by other members, 
however they are excluded from the final ranking of the instalments as 
they already know the four topics from the start.

As far as the rating  is concerned, voting for
â€œArtisticâ€ and
â€œTopicâ€ 
will be similar to what you are used to. The third category
â€œTechnicalâ€ 
will have a different meaning: it will rate the manner in which the 
artist has been able to meld successfully the elements from different 
instalments as the series progresses. The term
â€œTechnicalâ€ is under 
scrutiny at this moment and will be replaced by something more 
appropriate. Suggestions are welcome of course.

The second instalment will have the following topic: "The Sinking of the 
Titanic and Great Sea Disasters". This will run from June 1st, 2016 
until July 14th, 2016. Voting for this instalment will start on July 
15th, 2016.

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC Challenge 1: Voting Results for Tales... [3625 days 17 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Tue, 3 May 2016 10:58:23 GMT

On 3-5-2016 10:21, Doctor John wrote:
> On 03/05/16 07:48, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 3-5-2016 4:49, jhu wrote:
> <snip>
>>> Hey! You didn't make an entry!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> No. It has been a while since I did one :-(
>>
>
> [sends Thomas a complimentary Round Tuit]
>

If that would help, gladly!

-- 
Thomas

[Doctor John] Re: TC-RTC Challenge 1: Voting Results for Tales... [3625 days 20 hours and 27 minutes ago]

Tue, 3 May 2016 08:21:53 GMT

On 03/05/16 07:48, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 3-5-2016 4:49, jhu wrote:
<snip>
>> Hey! You didn't make an entry!
>>
>>
>>
> 
> No. It has been a while since I did one :-(
> 

[sends Thomas a complimentary Round Tuit]

-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC Challenge 1: Voting Results for Tales... [3625 days 22 hours and 1 minute ago]

Tue, 3 May 2016 06:48:21 GMT

On 3-5-2016 4:49, jhu wrote:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> As usual, complete results are also presented at:
>> http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html
>>
>> 1 The Maiden in Black  jhu1  429 / 489
>> 2 Alien Brain   rmcgregor 417 / 477
>> 2 What? Phew!   DrNo  417 / 477
>> 4 Elementary!   DrNo  406 / 466
>> 5 The Horror of the Heights JuuG  403 / 463
>> 6 The Empty Bedroom  angela  387 / 447
>> 7 The Black Cat   DrNo  332 / 392
>>
>> Congratulations to the winners and thanks for voting.
>>
>> *Update about the TC-RTC forum:* The Forum is available again at
>> http://tinachepforum.forumup.co.uk/
>>
>> --
>> Thomas
>
> Hey! You didn't make an entry!
>
>
>

No. It has been a while since I did one :-(

-- 
Thomas

[jhu] Re: TC-RTC Challenge 1: Voting Results for Tales... [3626 days 1 hour and 59 minutes ago]

Tue, 3 May 2016 02:50:06 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> As usual, complete results are also presented at:
> http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html
>
> 1 The Maiden in Black  jhu1  429 / 489
> 2 Alien Brain   rmcgregor 417 / 477
> 2 What? Phew!   DrNo  417 / 477
> 4 Elementary!   DrNo  406 / 466
> 5 The Horror of the Heights JuuG  403 / 463
> 6 The Empty Bedroom  angela  387 / 447
> 7 The Black Cat   DrNo  332 / 392
>
> Congratulations to the winners and thanks for voting.
>
> *Update about the TC-RTC forum:* The Forum is available again at
> http://tinachepforum.forumup.co.uk/
>
> --
> Thomas

Hey! You didn't make an entry!

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenge 1: Voting Results for Tales of ... [3627 days 16 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Sun, 1 May 2016 12:08:22 GMT

As usual, complete results are also presented at: 
http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

1	The Maiden in Black		jhu1		429 / 489
2	Alien Brain			rmcgregor	417 / 477
2	What? Phew!			DrNo		417 / 477
4	Elementary!			DrNo		406 / 466
5	The Horror of the Heights	JuuG		403 / 463
6	The Empty Bedroom		angela		387 / 447
7	The Black Cat			DrNo		332 / 392

Congratulations to the winners and thanks for voting.

*Update about the TC-RTC forum:* The Forum is available again at 
http://tinachepforum.forumup.co.uk/

-- 
Thomas

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC: A themed Challenge. [3633 days 12 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Mon, 25 Apr 2016 16:43:00 GMT

On 4/25/2016 4:15 PM, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
> What if the first three rounds operated like the TV cooking competition
> "Chopped" (but without the element of a chef being sent home in each
> round).  At each round, the chefs are given identical boxes containing
> an utterly random set of ingredients (for example, blueberries, uni,
> nopales, and spam), each of which MUST be incorporated into their dish
> for that round.
>

That sounds like our Ready, Steady, Cook. Only it was not a knockout 
competition. But teams with one chef and one member of the audience. Who 
brought the ingredients.

> Rounds one, two, and three could each be a "box" containing three
> obligatory items ("Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh My!" or "Bell, Book,
> and Candle").  (There should, of course, be allowance for wordplay and
> hideous puns--the only good kind--so that "Tea and Biscuits with the
> Queen" could be interpreted as a T-square, dog biscuits, and a Queen
> album.)
>
> Round four would incorporate one specific random item from each of the
> three previous boxes, but with those items not chosen until AFTER the
> end of round three.  Using the previous examples, you'd know that the
> final round would include: (1) lions, tigers, OR bears; (2) bell, book,
> OR candle; and (3) tea, biscuits, OR a queen; but not which ones.
>
> Might be interesting.  ;)
>
> --Sherry Shaw
>

Hmm! I'm thinking Monty Hall, now. All of those boxes, little boxes. :-)

Oh! No! Pete Seeger has come to visit. ;-)

We will certainly consider your suggestion Sherry. Bearing in mind the 
the entries are mostly by men. Do you not think that the rules are a bit 
complex? :-)

Joking aside it is a good idea.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Sherry K Shaw] Re: TC-RTC: A themed Challenge. [3633 days 13 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:14:44 GMT

What if the first three rounds operated like the TV cooking competition 
"Chopped" (but without the element of a chef being sent home in each 
round).  At each round, the chefs are given identical boxes containing 
an utterly random set of ingredients (for example, blueberries, uni, 
nopales, and spam), each of which MUST be incorporated into their dish 
for that round.

Rounds one, two, and three could each be a "box" containing three 
obligatory items ("Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh My!" or "Bell, Book, 
and Candle").  (There should, of course, be allowance for wordplay and 
hideous puns--the only good kind--so that "Tea and Biscuits with the 
Queen" could be interpreted as a T-square, dog biscuits, and a Queen album.)

Round four would incorporate one specific random item from each of the 
three previous boxes, but with those items not chosen until AFTER the 
end of round three.  Using the previous examples, you'd know that the 
final round would include: (1) lions, tigers, OR bears; (2) bell, book, 
OR candle; and (3) tea, biscuits, OR a queen; but not which ones.

Might be interesting.  ;)

--Sherry Shaw

-- 
#macro T(E,N)sphere{x,.4rotate z*E*60translate y*N pigment{wrinkles scale
.3}finish{ambient 1}}#end#local I=0;#while(I<5)T(I,1)T(1-I,-1)#local I=I+
1;#end camera{location-5*z}plane{z,37 pigment{granite color_map{[.7rgb 0]
[1rgb 1]}}finish{ambient 2}}//                                   TenMoons

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC: A themed Challenge. [3633 days 16 hours and 28 minutes ago]

Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:20:47 GMT

On 4/24/2016 2:06 AM, Christian Froeschlin wrote:
> On 22.04.2016 13:51, Stephen wrote:
>
>> We would not mind comments and suggestions
>
> Some random thoughts on this
>
> - Of course, try it, why not
>

No reason not to. I wanted to see what the reaction would be and if 
there were any suggestions.

> - The short topics may need to be interpreted more literally
>    than usual in order for them to make sense in the long topic.
>    Releasing all topics at once could give a bit more flexibility
>

It would indeed and easier to plan your series.

> - The short topics should be self-contained so that anyone can
>    participate in a single topic only as time allows. It might be
>    good to encourage complete scenes over "object test renders".
>

That's the problem I can see if you know what the final topic will be.

[Homage to McGonagall] ;)


> - Since participating in the complete set is a longer commitment
>    it might make most sense to split up Challenge 1.

I am not too sure that I follow you.

> Alternatively
>    use a future Challenge 1 topic that incorporates elements from
>    earlier Challenge 2 topics.
>

This is what I had been thinking of. Maybe incorporating elements from 
two of the previous three short (Challenge 2) topics.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Christian Froeschlin] Re: TC-RTC: A themed Challenge. [3635 days 3 hours and 42 minutes ago]

Sun, 24 Apr 2016 01:06:55 GMT

On 22.04.2016 13:51, Stephen wrote:

> We would not mind comments and suggestions

Some random thoughts on this

- Of course, try it, why not

- The short topics may need to be interpreted more literally
   than usual in order for them to make sense in the long topic.
   Releasing all topics at once could give a bit more flexibility

- The short topics should be self-contained so that anyone can
   participate in a single topic only as time allows. It might be
   good to encourage complete scenes over "object test renders".

- Since participating in the complete set is a longer commitment
   it might make most sense to split up Challenge 1. Alternatively
   use a future Challenge 1 topic that incorporates elements from
   earlier Challenge 2 topics.

[Stephen] TC-RTC: A themed Challenge. [3636 days 16 hours and 57 minutes ago]

Fri, 22 Apr 2016 11:51:45 GMT

We were thinking about adding an extra dimension to the Challenges by 
putting a theme to a series of them. Culminating in a scene that should 
incorporate all or parts of the previous scenes.

There would be three short Challenges then a longer one to finish on. 
For example:
(1) Red; (2) Blue; (3) Yellow; (4) Rainbow.
Or
(1) Statues; (2) Fountain; (3) Garden; (4) Stately Home/Big Ranch.

We would not mind comments and suggestions, especially on how to release 
the name of the topics. We could:

1.       Release the four topics at the start.
2.       Release the three short topics at the start and keep the last 
one until the end.
3.       Stagger the release of the three short topicsâ€¦

You get the idea.

-- 

Stephen & Thomas, Administrators

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenge 1: Voting for Tales of Terror a... [3641 days 20 hours and 42 minutes ago]

Sun, 17 Apr 2016 08:07:26 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

The Challenge 1 topic: *Tales of Terror and Mystery, by Sir Arthur Conan 
Doyle (1859-1930)*, is open for voting now. Remember the voting rules 
and make your selection.

The new upcoming Challenge will again run for four months (May/August 
2016) and its topic will be: *The Metal Monster, by Abraham Merritt 
(1882-1943)*Â.

This time, your skills with metals in all its forms, colours and 
textures are being challenged.

At the drawing board!

Stephen & Thomas, Administrators

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenge 2: voting results for Wave Patt... [3643 days 21 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Fri, 15 Apr 2016 07:27:34 GMT

As usual, complete results are also presented at: 
http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

1	rmcgregor	Ripples					487 / 547
2	jhu1		Lonely Buoy				464 / 524
3	kernit		Alien Collider				450 / 510
4	BayashiPascal	Celebration of a new wave pattern.	446 / 506
5	JuuG		Alternating Currents			445 / 505
6	DrNo		Wave the flag				388 / 448
7	angela		Mirage					355 / 415

Congratulations to the winners and thanks for voting.

*Update about the TC-RTC forum:* It remains inaccessible. I have sent a 
couple of mails to the webmaster but never got any answer. Your guess at 
this stage is as good as mine.

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenge 2:Voting for Wave Patterns & ne... [3657 days 16 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 Apr 2016 11:49:57 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html the Challenge 2 round *Wave 
Patterns*, has been closed for upload. You are now kindly invited to 
vote for the uploaded images. You can do this till the 14th of the 
current month. Please do not forget to vote for *all* the images if you 
want your votes to be valid! Remember: this is absolutely mandatory.

The next theme for Challenge 2  is *Pastry, Cakes and Sweetmeats*, 
starting on April 15th and ending May 31st. Uploading closes May 17th; 
voting starts May 18th.

You may have noticed that the forum has been down for quite some while 
now. There is nothing we can do about it unfortunately. We shall notify 
you as soon as access to the forum is possible again. We are sorry for 
the inconvenience.

Stephen & Thomas, Administrators
-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC Challenge 2: voting results for Abstr... [3687 days 16 hours and 23 minutes ago]

Wed, 2 Mar 2016 12:26:07 GMT

On 2-3-2016 11:03, Stephen wrote:
> On 3/2/2016 9:08 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
>> 15 ex aequo    kernit    Meeting    391 / 391
>> 15 ex aequo    DrNo    Reunion    331 / 391
>
> Careful Thomas. Your education is showing. ;-)

Is that so? Glad that it finally bears its fruits. ;-)

>
> Congratulations to all. It was a very good round.
>

It certainly was. I hope we continue like this hm?

-- 
Thomas

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC Challenge 2: voting results for Abstr... [3687 days 18 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Wed, 2 Mar 2016 10:03:06 GMT

On 3/2/2016 9:08 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:

> 15 ex aequo    kernit    Meeting    391 / 391
> 15 ex aequo    DrNo    Reunion    331 / 391

Careful Thomas. Your education is showing. ;-)

Congratulations to all. It was a very good round.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenge 2: voting results for Abstract [3687 days 19 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Wed, 2 Mar 2016 09:08:09 GMT

As usual, complete results are also presented at: 
http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

1	kernit	Curiosity	510 / 510
2	rmcgregor	Summer Solstice	441 / 501
3	rmcgregor	Transformation	416 / 476
4	septime	Quarters	403 / 463
5	septime	His majesty the King and his court	398 / 458
6	septime	Abstract	387 / 447
7	kernit	Primitives1	441 / 441
8	JuuG	Whirligig	371 / 431
9	kernit	Primitives3	419 / 419
10	DrNo	Heart of the Sun	358 / 418
11	pokorny	Seven Holes	417 / 417
12	JuuG	Impact	349 / 409
13	kernit	Primitives2	406 / 406
14	froesccn	RSOCPTICSDTOW	340 / 400
15 ex aequo	kernit	Meeting	391 / 391
15 ex aequo	DrNo	Reunion	331 / 391
17	DrNo	Concrete	306 / 366
18	DrNo	Fall in Love	299 / 359
19	JuuG	Thinking Aloud	293 / 353
20	pokorny	RGB	348 / 348
21	lequenne	dalimaniac	314 / 314

Congratulations to the winners and thanks for voting.

-- 
Thomas and Stephen

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC Challenge 2: Results delayed. [3688 days 11 hours and 48 minutes ago]

Tue, 1 Mar 2016 17:00:48 GMT

On 3/1/2016 4:21 PM, Bald Eagle wrote:
> OK, I'm just gonna stop there...


Why change the habit of a lifetime? ^^


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Bald Eagle] Re: TC-RTC Challenge 2: Results delayed. [3688 days 12 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Tue, 1 Mar 2016 16:25:00 GMT

Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> Sorry, we have run out of fingers and toes.


Next topic is ... "fingers and toes"   :D


"Appendages"   ... wait, no, given some of the crowd, that may be a little bit
too open-ended.   OK, I'm just gonna stop there...

[Stephen] TC-RTC Challenge 2: Results delayed. [3688 days 13 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Tue, 1 Mar 2016 15:09:26 GMT

Sorry, we have run out of fingers and toes.
Due to the number of entries and not everyone completing their voting. 
There will be a slight delay in publishing the results.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC Challenge 2: Voting for Abstract & ne... [3701 days 9 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Feb 2016 19:40:23 GMT

On 2/17/2016 11:29 AM, Paolo Gibellini wrote:
> Thomas de Groot wrote on 16/02/2016 13.33:
>> At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html the Challenge 2 round
>> *Abstract*, has been closed for upload. Members are now kindly invited
>> to vote for the uploaded images. You can do this till the 29th of the
>> current month. Please do not forget to vote for *all* the images if you
>> want your votes to be valid! Remember: this is absolutely mandatory.
>>
>> The next theme for Challenge 2 is *Wave Pattern*, starting on March 1st
>> and ending April 14th. Uploading closes March 31st; voting starts the
>> next day.
>>
>>
>> Stephen & Thomas, Administrators
>
> Honestly, in this round there are a lot of very good images (from both
> artistic and technical point of view, I mean). It will be very difficult
> to choose the best.
>
> My complements,
>     Paolo

You are not kidding.
I was in hospital last year and some of the entries remind me of the 
hallucinations I had in intensive care. They will be getting my votes. ;-)


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC Challenge 2: Voting for Abstract & ne... [3701 days 16 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:24:09 GMT

On 17-2-2016 12:29, Paolo Gibellini wrote:
> Thomas de Groot wrote on 16/02/2016 13.33:
>> At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html the Challenge 2 round
>> *Abstract*, has been closed for upload. Members are now kindly invited
>> to vote for the uploaded images. You can do this till the 29th of the
>> current month. Please do not forget to vote for *all* the images if you
>> want your votes to be valid! Remember: this is absolutely mandatory.
>>
>> The next theme for Challenge 2 is *Wave Pattern*, starting on March 1st
>> and ending April 14th. Uploading closes March 31st; voting starts the
>> next day.
>>
>>
>> Stephen & Thomas, Administrators
>
> Honestly, in this round there are a lot of very good images (from both
> artistic and technical point of view, I mean). It will be very difficult
> to choose the best.
>
> My complements,
>     Paolo

Yes indeed! This round is a great success, and very tough!

-- 
Thomas

[Paolo Gibellini] Re: TC-RTC Challenge 2: Voting for Abstract & ne... [3701 days 17 hours and 19 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Feb 2016 11:29:37 GMT

Thomas de Groot wrote on 16/02/2016 13.33:
> At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html the Challenge 2 round
> *Abstract*, has been closed for upload. Members are now kindly invited
> to vote for the uploaded images. You can do this till the 29th of the
> current month. Please do not forget to vote for *all* the images if you
> want your votes to be valid! Remember: this is absolutely mandatory.
>
> The next theme for Challenge 2 is *Wave Pattern*, starting on March 1st
> and ending April 14th. Uploading closes March 31st; voting starts the
> next day.
>
>
> Stephen & Thomas, Administrators

Honestly, in this round there are a lot of very good images (from both 
artistic and technical point of view, I mean). It will be very difficult 
to choose the best.

My complements,
    Paolo

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenge 2: Voting for Abstract & new To... [3702 days 16 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 12:34:24 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html the Challenge 2 round 
*Abstract*, has been closed for upload. Members are now kindly invited 
to vote for the uploaded images. You can do this till the 29th of the 
current month. Please do not forget to vote for *all* the images if you 
want your votes to be valid! Remember: this is absolutely mandatory.

The next theme for Challenge 2 is *Wave Pattern*, starting on March 1st 
and ending April 14th. Uploading closes March 31st; voting starts the 
next day.


Stephen & Thomas, Administrators
-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenge 1 (Mountain) & Challenge 2 (Sur... [3747 days 19 hours and 58 minutes ago]

Sat, 2 Jan 2016 08:51:22 GMT

*Happy New 2016 to all!*

Results are in (http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html)

Challenge 1 Mountain has the following final voting results:

1 kernit Near Sunset 445/505 points
2 rmcgregor A Perilous Climb 399/459 points
3 DrNo One view of Mt. Fuji 354/414 points
4 lequenne A Great Mountain Sight 327/387 points
5 lequenne A syntheticMountain 313/373 points
6 JuuG Ascent 297/357 points

Challenge 2 Surfaces has the following final voting results:

1 rmcgregor Parametric Pasta 331/391 points
1 rmcgregor Klein Bottles 331/391 points
3 lequenne A Very Large Surface to Bury Them All 322/382 points
4 JuuG The Silver Ball 301/361 points
5 DrNo Control panels 295/355 points
6 DrNo Skin Deep 279/339 points

Congratulations to the winners and a warm thanks to the voters.

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenge 1 & 2: Voting and new topics [3758 days 16 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Tue, 22 Dec 2015 12:22:44 GMT

At  http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html both Challenge 1 
(*Mountain*) and Challenge 2 (*Surfaces*) are open for voting till the 
end of the month (and the year incidentally). As always, you need to 
vote for *all* images.

We will start 2016 with two new challenges:

Challenge 1: *Tales of Terror and Mystery, by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle 
(1859-1930)*, which will run from January 1st till April 30th;

Challenge 2: *Abstract*, which will run from January 1st till February 29th.

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenge 2: Results for September/Octobe... [3807 days 20 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Tue, 3 Nov 2015 08:38:09 GMT

Results can be found at http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

There were only two entries to be voted for. Four members voted.

1. rfitzel with Trees of Knowledge: 182 points
2. DrNo with Growing up: 157 points

Congratulations to both participants. We sincerely hope to have more 
entries for the last Challenge 2 of the year: *Surfaces*.

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenge 2: Voting for Growth & new Topic [3822 days 17 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Mon, 19 Oct 2015 11:45:29 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html the Challenge 2 round 
*Growth*, has been closed for upload. Members are now kindly invited to 
vote for the uploaded images. You can do this till the 15th of the 
current month. Please do not forget to vote for *all* the images if you 
want your votes to be valid! Remember: this is absolutely mandatory.

The next theme for Challenge 2 is *Surfaces*, starting on November 1st 
and ending December 31st. Uploading closes December 17th; voting starts 
the next day.


Stephen & Thomas, Administrators
-- 
Thomas

[LanuHum] Re: TC-RTC: Challenge 2: Results for July/Septem... [3852 days 9 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Sat, 19 Sep 2015 19:25:06 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Results are in (http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html)
>
> 1 lequenne The Lurker on the Threshold  117/177
> 2 DrNo  Chain Reaction    113/173
> 3 DrNo  Limits     111/171
> 4 pokorny  ThresholdRight    105/105
>
> Congratulations to the winners and thanks for voting (/et tu/, Bill?)
>
> --
> Thomas

If I could talk to you, I would come to you!
You are excellent boys!
:) :) :)

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Challenge 2: Results for July/September ... [3852 days 20 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Sat, 19 Sep 2015 07:50:14 GMT

Results are in (http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html)

1	lequenne	The Lurker on the Threshold		117/177
2	DrNo		Chain Reaction				113/173
3	DrNo		Limits					111/171
4	pokorny		ThresholdRight				105/105

Congratulations to the winners and thanks for voting (/et tu/, Bill?)

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Challenge 2: Voting for Thresholds & new ... [3868 days 17 hours and 13 minutes ago]

Thu, 3 Sep 2015 11:36:17 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html the Challenge 2 round 
*Thresholds*, has been closed for upload. Members are now kindly invited 
to vote for the uploaded images. You can do this till the 15th of the 
current month. Please do not forget to vote for *all* the images if you 
want your votes to be valid! Remember: this is absolutely mandatory.

The next theme for Challenge 2 is *Growth*, starting on September 16th 
and ending October 31st. Uploading closes October 18th; voting starts 
October 19th.


Stephen & Thomas, Administrators

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Challenge 1: Results for May/August 2015... [3870 days 20 hours and 47 minutes ago]

Tue, 1 Sep 2015 08:02:24 GMT

Hi all,

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html the final voting results are in:

1 MichaelJF: A Planetary Journey (251/311)
2 lequenne: A Very Long Travel (249/309)
3 DrNo: Around the Clock (235/295)
4 ianm123: Orbit (215/275)
5 DrNo: Prejudice (213/273)

Congratulations to the winners!

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Challenge 1: Voting for Around The World... [3884 days 16 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Tue, 18 Aug 2015 12:04:50 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

The Challenge 1 topic: *Around The World In 80 Days (by Verne, Jules, 
1828-1905)*, is open for voting now. Remember the voting rules and make 
your selection.

The new upcoming Challenge will again run for four months 
(September/December 2015) and its topic will be: *Mountain*Â.

 From the mountains of Earth to those on Mars or Pluto, mountains are 
the visible expression of the internal forces of planets. However, it is 
more: something big; huge amounts of whatever you may think about. 
Something to overwhelm us.

At the drawing board!

Stephen & Thomas, Administrators
-- 
Thomas

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC: Back again! [3891 days 1 hour and 9 minutes ago]

Wed, 12 Aug 2015 03:40:14 GMT

On 8/11/2015 10:49 PM, Doctor John wrote:
> BTW I suppose this qualifies as ABEND (absent by enforced net deprivation)

Groan.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Doctor John] Re: TC-RTC: Back again! [3891 days 6 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Tue, 11 Aug 2015 21:49:34 GMT

On 11/08/15 12:52, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Maybe you have missed me (probably not) after about a month's silence
> but I am back in business again after a modem crash, switching
> providers, and getting a new modem installed properly.

Well, Stephen missed you ;-) I didn't, but that was because I was on
holiday and deliberately refusing to use any form of IT.

BTW I suppose this qualifies as ABEND (absent by enforced net deprivation)

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

[MichaelJF] Re: TC-RTC: Back again! [3891 days 9 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Tue, 11 Aug 2015 19:45:01 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Maybe you have missed me (probably not) after about a month's silence
> but I am back in business again after a modem crash, switching
> providers, and getting a new modem installed properly.
> --
> Thomas

I have noticed your lack of entries here. A complete page of 100 entries without
Thomas (message digest). That is rare. But it is summer and i supposed a
holiday.

Best regards,
Michael

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC: Back again! [3891 days 16 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:10:03 GMT

On 8/11/2015 12:52 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Maybe you have missed me (probably not) after about a month's silence
> but I am back in business again after a modem crash, switching
> providers, and getting a new modem installed properly.

Well don't do it again. ;-)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Back again! [3891 days 16 hours and 57 minutes ago]

Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:52:02 GMT

Hi all,

Maybe you have missed me (probably not) after about a month's silence 
but I am back in business again after a modem crash, switching 
providers, and getting a new modem installed properly.
-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Challenge 2: Voting for Doodle & new top... [3930 days 20 hours and 33 minutes ago]

Fri, 3 Jul 2015 08:15:56 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

Challenge 2 topic *Doodle* is open for voting now. Remember the voting 
rules and make your selection.

The next topic for Challenge 2 is *Thresholds*, starting on July 16th 
and ending September 15th. Uploading closes on August the 31st;  voting 
starts on September the 1st.

Thresholds are not only present at our feet when we carelessly go  from 
one room to another in our homes. Thresholds may be discrete boundaries 
and yet have a fundamental impact when crossed. From light into 
darkness; from warm into cold; from culture into barbarism. Thresholds 
play a fundamental role in climate change, in human societies, in animal 
populations. Wherever there is change, there are thresholds.

Stephen & Thomas, Administrators

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC: Challenge 2: Results for April/May 2... [3959 days 21 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Thu, 4 Jun 2015 07:14:29 GMT

On 3-6-2015 23:07, Christian Froeschlin wrote:
> On 01.06.2015 9:32, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
>> First and second place turned out to be ex-aequo. I took it upon me to
>> order them ;-)
>
> Is it possible you also switched the user names in the process? :)
>

Lol. I messed up! With so many participants it is easy to get lost ;-)

-- 
Thomas

[Christian Froeschlin] Re: TC-RTC: Challenge 2: Results for April/May 2... [3960 days 7 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Wed, 3 Jun 2015 21:07:37 GMT

On 01.06.2015 9:32, Thomas de Groot wrote:

> First and second place turned out to be ex-aequo. I took it upon me to
> order them ;-)

Is it possible you also switched the user names in the process? :)

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Challenge 2: Results for April/May 2015:... [3962 days 21 hours and 17 minutes ago]

Mon, 1 Jun 2015 07:32:20 GMT

Results are in (http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html) although I 
must say that I would have liked more voters active, even if the number 
of images submitted was small and the number of participants even smaller.

First and second place turned out to be ex-aequo. I took it upon me to 
order them ;-)

1. DrNo: Blues Trombone; 79/139 points
2. DrNo: Dragon Slayer; 79/139 points
3. JuuG: Recessive; 75/135 points

Congratulations to the two only participants to this challenge!

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Challenge 2: Voting for Blue & new topic... [3975 days 16 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Tue, 19 May 2015 11:49:45 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

Challenge 2 topic *Blue* is open for voting now. Remember the voting 
rules and make your selection.

The next topic for Challenge 2 is *Doodle*, starting on June 1st and 
ending July 15th. Uploading closes on the 30th of June; voting starts on 
the 1st of July.

According to Wikipedia, a doddle is a drawing made while a person's 
attention is otherwise occupied. We all make them, and in this age of 
computers we doodle digitally, especially when groping for a new scene 
to render or an old one which does not develop as expected. Doodles can 
take fantastic shapes or concentrate on something or somebody we know. 
They can evolve from some random shapes into highly complex structures 
and textures. What are your doodles about?
-- 
Thomas & Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC: Results for the January/April 2015 C... [3991 days 21 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Sun, 3 May 2015 07:00:07 GMT

On 2-5-2015 17:00, jhu wrote:

>
> Oh, wow! I won! Interesting round.
>
>
>

Twice! Congratulations indeed and well done.

-- 
Thomas

[jhu] Re: TC-RTC: Results for the January/April 2015 C... [3992 days 13 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Sat, 2 May 2015 15:05:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> The results are in at the TC-RTC http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html
>
> - Two participating members did not vote;
> - One participating member only voted partially;
> - Three members only voted partially.
>
> Correction for the above resulted in the following score:
>
> 1 jhu1  Interfacing  471
> 2 jhu1  Difference Engine 445
> 3 septime  Complexity  441
> 4 ianm123  Capronissimo  434
> 5 JuuG  Fractal Descent  431
> 6 TenMoons Game of Traps  428
> 7 Thax  Searching  426
> 8 ThomdeG  Ring Dream  425
> 9 lequenne If only it existed 415
> 10 JohnG  Depth   407
> 11 DrNo  Hang-up   406
> 12 DrNo  Swirled world  402
> 13 DrNo  i lands   398
> 14 rmcgregor Hand   395
> 15 lequenne What a man will never completely understand 375
> 16 stefan  Universal Photonic Frequency Multiplier     365
> 17 lequenne DNA sphere  324
>
> --
> Thomas

Oh, wow! I won! Interesting round.

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Results for the January/April 2015 Chall... [3993 days 17 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 May 2015 11:34:13 GMT

The results are in at the TC-RTC http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

- Two participating members did not vote;
- One participating member only voted partially;
- Three members only voted partially.

Correction for the above resulted in the following score:

1	jhu1		Interfacing		471
2	jhu1		Difference Engine	445
3	septime		Complexity		441
4	ianm123		Capronissimo		434
5	JuuG		Fractal Descent		431
6	TenMoons	Game of Traps		428
7	Thax		Searching		426
8	ThomdeG		Ring Dream		425
9	lequenne	If only it existed	415
10	JohnG		Depth			407
11	DrNo		Hang-up			406
12	DrNo		Swirled world		402
13	DrNo		i lands			398
14	rmcgregor	Hand			395
15	lequenne	What a man will never completely understand 375
16	stefan		Universal Photonic Frequency Multiplier	    365
17	lequenne	DNA sphere		324

-- 
Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: January/April 2015 Challenge 1: Complex ... [4007 days 16 hours and 42 minutes ago]

Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:07:00 GMT

Hi all,

At the TC-RTC http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html the January/April 
2015 Challenge 1: Complex, has been closed for upload.

Those of you who are members may now vote for the best images. Please 
vote for *all* images if you want your votes to be valid. Those of you 
who are not members, may consider to become one? You are more than 
welcome indeed.

The new upcoming Challenge will again run for four months (May/August 
2015) and its topic will be: *Around The World In 80 Days (by Verne, 
Jules, 1828-1905)*.

See the website for more details.

Stephen & Thomas, TC-RTC Administrators
-- 
Thomas

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC: Results for the February 2015 Challe... [4008 days 12 hours and 3 minutes ago]

Thu, 16 Apr 2015 16:45:41 GMT

On 01/03/2015 10:13, Le_Forgeron wrote:
>>> >>And if the site could be in sync with the publication (so far the result
>>> >>for challenge 2 gives 60 points less for the voters, hence a different
>>> >>order)
>>> >>
>> >
>> >Nice catch. We missed that.
>> >I will get onto it.
>> >


Would you like to check that this has been fixed?

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Stephen] TC-RTC: Results for the March/April 2015 Challen... [4008 days 18 hours and 33 minutes ago]

Thu, 16 Apr 2015 10:16:19 GMT

The final results for the Challenge, after correction are:


	Image name 			Username 	Overall
1	At The Edge Of The World 	JuuG 		392
2	Melting 			SeanDay 	388
3	Rising 				rmcgregor 	378
4	Open water 			DrNo 		359
5	Misty-eyed 			DrNo 		349
6	just water 			lequenne 	345
7	Zero G Antibubble 		froesccn 	342
8	Strange Turbulence 		ThomdeG 	341

Unfortunately Robert was unable to cast his votes in time and everyone 
else's score has been credited with 60 points.

We hope that the problems with automatically correcting the scores has 
been corrected and will not have to be done manually. In the Future.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Stephen] TC-RTC: Results for the March/April 2015 Challen... [4009 days 15 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:58:59 GMT

Sorry, but there is a problem and we cannot access the voting results to 
publish the scores. It does look like one of the entrants did not vote. 
So the ranking will change.
As soon as we get the problem solved we will update everyone.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: April/May 2015 Challenge 2: Blue [4017 days 13 hours and 58 minutes ago]

Tue, 7 Apr 2015 14:51:29 GMT

At the TC-RTC (http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html) the next theme 
for Challenge 2 is *Blue*, starting on April 15th and ending May 31st. 
Uploading closes on the 17th of May,  Voting starting on the 18th of May.

We like blue. Blue skies during summer holidays; blue water for 
swimming. It is a somewhat cold, distant colour which permeates far away 
landscapes at the horizon. The Earth is a blue ball when viewed from 
space. But there are other kinds of blue too. What about blue Mondays? 
Blue stockings? Blue Tories? And the formidable Bluebeard of our youth. 
Out of the blue, we want to be surprised by your blue-prints.

Stephen & Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC: Results for the February 2015 Challe... [4054 days 16 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Sun, 1 Mar 2015 12:05:26 GMT

On 1-3-2015 11:36, Stephen wrote:
> On 01/03/2015 10:13, Le_Forgeron wrote:
>>> Are you talking about the newsletter?
>>> >If so that is easily done. We have not thought that it was important to
>>> >include a link. As the newsletter only goes out to members.
>>> >
>> I'm talking about the quoted text, in this thread.
>>
>
>
> Ah! I have a one track mind. :-)
>
> We will try to remember.
>
> Thanks.
>
> http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html
>
>
I indeed forgot to add the link this time :-(

-- 
Thomas

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC: Results for the February 2015 Challe... [4054 days 18 hours and 13 minutes ago]

Sun, 1 Mar 2015 10:36:28 GMT

On 01/03/2015 10:13, Le_Forgeron wrote:
>> Are you talking about the newsletter?
>> >If so that is easily done. We have not thought that it was important to
>> >include a link. As the newsletter only goes out to members.
>> >
> I'm talking about the quoted text, in this thread.
>


Ah! I have a one track mind. :-)

We will try to remember.

Thanks.

http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Le Forgeron] Re: TC-RTC: Results for the February 2015 Challe... [4054 days 18 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Sun, 1 Mar 2015 10:13:44 GMT

Le 01/03/2015 10:42, Stephen a Ã©crit :
> On 01/03/2015 09:16, Le_Forgeron wrote:
>> Le 01/03/2015 09:54, Thomas de Groot a Ã©crit :
>>> The final results for the Challenge 2 are as follow. Note that one
>>> participant (Lequenne) did not vote and so lost points:
>>>
>>> 1 JuuG          Fire Burn, Cauldron Bubble  267
>>> 2 DrNo          Speculative                 265
>>> 3 SeanDay       honeypot ant                247
>>> 4 Lequenne      Valentines bubble           237
>>>
>>
>> I would like to have a bit of link with each TC-RTC publication... so
>> far it looks like a site well-known by the ones who know it, but not for
>> the newcomers... just a small url to the home page would ease the easy
>> reading.
>>
> 
> Are you talking about the newsletter?
> If so that is easily done. We have not thought that it was important to
> include a link. As the newsletter only goes out to members.
> 

I'm talking about the quoted text, in this thread.

>> And if the site could be in sync with the publication (so far the result
>> for challenge 2 gives 60 points less for the voters, hence a different
>> order)
>>
> 
> Nice catch. We missed that.
> I will get onto it.
>

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC: Results for the February 2015 Challe... [4054 days 19 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Sun, 1 Mar 2015 09:42:35 GMT

On 01/03/2015 09:16, Le_Forgeron wrote:
> Le 01/03/2015 09:54, Thomas de Groot a Ã©crit :
>> The final results for the Challenge 2 are as follow. Note that one
>> participant (Lequenne) did not vote and so lost points:
>>
>> 1 JuuG          Fire Burn, Cauldron Bubble  267
>> 2 DrNo          Speculative                 265
>> 3 SeanDay       honeypot ant                247
>> 4 Lequenne      Valentines bubble           237
>>
>
> I would like to have a bit of link with each TC-RTC publication... so
> far it looks like a site well-known by the ones who know it, but not for
> the newcomers... just a small url to the home page would ease the easy
> reading.
>

Are you talking about the newsletter?
If so that is easily done. We have not thought that it was important to 
include a link. As the newsletter only goes out to members.

> And if the site could be in sync with the publication (so far the result
> for challenge 2 gives 60 points less for the voters, hence a different
> order)
>

Nice catch. We missed that.
I will get onto it.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Le Forgeron] Re: TC-RTC: Results for the February 2015 Challe... [4054 days 19 hours and 33 minutes ago]

Sun, 1 Mar 2015 09:16:09 GMT

Le 01/03/2015 09:54, Thomas de Groot a Ã©crit :
> The final results for the Challenge 2 are as follow. Note that one
> participant (Lequenne) did not vote and so lost points:
> 
> 1 JuuG          Fire Burn, Cauldron Bubble  267
> 2 DrNo          Speculative                 265
> 3 SeanDay       honeypot ant                247
> 4 Lequenne      Valentines bubble           237
> 

I would like to have a bit of link with each TC-RTC publication... so
far it looks like a site well-known by the ones who know it, but not for
the newcomers... just a small url to the home page would ease the easy
reading.

And if the site could be in sync with the publication (so far the result
for challenge 2 gives 60 points less for the voters, hence a different
order)

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Results for the February 2015 Challenge ... [4054 days 19 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Sun, 1 Mar 2015 08:54:18 GMT

The final results for the Challenge 2 are as follow. Note that one 
participant (Lequenne) did not vote and so lost points:

1 JuuG          Fire Burn, Cauldron Bubble  267
2 DrNo          Speculative                 265
3 SeanDay       honeypot ant                247
4 Lequenne      Valentines bubble           237

-- 
Thomas

[Doctor John] Re: Now that's novel [4080 days 17 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Tue, 3 Feb 2015 11:29:02 GMT

On 03/02/15 10:07, Stephen wrote:
> It wasn't a novel. Just a short story.
> 
> Fixed now. It was debugging code.
> 

I sort of guessed that. I was just wondering why it suddenly appeared;
have you been playing with things you were told not to touch ;-)

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

[Stephen] Re: Now that's novel [4080 days 18 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Tue, 3 Feb 2015 10:07:34 GMT

It wasn't a novel. Just a short story.

Fixed now. It was debugging code.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: Now that's novel [4080 days 20 hours and 47 minutes ago]

Tue, 3 Feb 2015 08:02:09 GMT

On 2-2-2015 17:45, Stephen wrote:
> On 02/02/2015 16:03, Doctor John wrote:
>> see attached screenshot
>>
>
> I am on to it John.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
I do get it too.

-- 
Thomas

[Stephen] Re: Now that's novel [4081 days 12 hours and 3 minutes ago]

Mon, 2 Feb 2015 16:45:35 GMT

On 02/02/2015 16:03, Doctor John wrote:
> see attached screenshot
>

I am on to it John.

Thanks.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Doctor John] Now that's novel [4081 days 12 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Mon, 2 Feb 2015 16:03:58 GMT

see attached screenshot

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

[Thomas de Groot] Re: Renewed homepage Voting problem [4088 days 20 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Mon, 26 Jan 2015 08:12:25 GMT

On 26-1-2015 1:09, Stephen wrote:
> On 25/01/2015 23:34, Christian Froeschlin wrote:
>> On 25.01.2015 21:31, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> And it is appreciated. :-)
>>
>> BTW I don't think I got an email notification for start of voting
>> period as I usually get for challenge 1. Is this intentional?
>>
>
> That is a manual operation and I think that we forgot because it was
> part of user testing.
> Sorry, sorry, please forgive us. ;-)

The real offender is me and I sprinkle my head with ashes :-) I somehow 
forgot to go through the correct and well-memorised callisthenics that 
come with Challenge 1.


-- 
Thomas

[Stephen] Re: Renewed homepage Voting problem [4089 days 4 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Mon, 26 Jan 2015 00:09:23 GMT

On 25/01/2015 23:34, Christian Froeschlin wrote:
> On 25.01.2015 21:31, Stephen wrote:
>
>> And it is appreciated. :-)
>
> BTW I don't think I got an email notification for start of voting
> period as I usually get for challenge 1. Is this intentional?
>

That is a manual operation and I think that we forgot because it was 
part of user testing.
Sorry, sorry, please forgive us. ;-)

>> Not at the moment. But if you can describe how our developer could
>> implement what you want, with still the option to read the description.
>> I will put it to him.
>
> In the simplest case there could be the "Click here to show
> uploaded (large) image" message that you find on the entry page
> also on the overview page.
>

Too simple for me. ;-)

> Although my intuitive expectation would be that a click on the
> thumbnail shows the large image. That would leave a click on the entry
> name as link to the entry page, or if that is too subtle to find maybe
> an additional link "View entry details" or somesuch.
>

Thomas and I will talk this over. In truth we don't want to ask the 
developer for too much as we are lucky when we gets his attention.

> Alternatively if there was an option to download all images as
> a zip that would also be convenient.

Hmm! that is a good idea. In the same vein,  I would like to change the 
voting page as well so that we can vote for everything at once instead 
of one at a time.

But as been mentioned before. The site is almost a charity case. When 
Steve Paget started TC-RTC as a temporary replacement for the IRTC he 
contacted a local web developer to set it up. When Steve died Thomas and 
I took over the running of the site. The cost is a peppercorn rent which 
means that I am wary of asking too much from the developer as he is 
often distant and does not reply to emails. Since we have his attention 
atm and I will certainly put this suggestion to him.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Christian Froeschlin] Re: Renewed homepage Voting problem [4089 days 5 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Sun, 25 Jan 2015 23:34:03 GMT

On 25.01.2015 21:31, Stephen wrote:

> And it is appreciated. :-)

BTW I don't think I got an email notification for start of voting
period as I usually get for challenge 1. Is this intentional?

> Not at the moment. But if you can describe how our developer could
> implement what you want, with still the option to read the description.
> I will put it to him.

In the simplest case there could be the "Click here to show
uploaded (large) image" message that you find on the entry page
also on the overview page.

Although my intuitive expectation would be that a click on the
thumbnail shows the large image. That would leave a click on the entry
name as link to the entry page, or if that is too subtle to find maybe
an additional link "View entry details" or somesuch.

Alternatively if there was an option to download all images as
a zip that would also be convenient.

[Stephen] Re: Renewed homepage Voting problem [4089 days 8 hours and 13 minutes ago]

Sun, 25 Jan 2015 20:35:35 GMT

On 25/01/2015 20:20, FractRacer wrote:

>>
> Voted! In the time limit.
>

Well done, old chap. :-)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Stephen] Re: Renewed homepage Voting problem [4089 days 8 hours and 17 minutes ago]

Sun, 25 Jan 2015 20:31:41 GMT

On 25/01/2015 19:47, Christian Froeschlin wrote:

>
> Well, I guess after that effort I just had to vote :)
>
And it is appreciated. :-)

> BTW is there a way to get the full image from the rating overview page
> without going through the entry page with description and everything?

Not at the moment. But if you can describe how our developer could 
implement what you want, with still the option to read the description. 
I will put it to him.

> It seems the process requires a lot of page reloads now for not much
> benefit

Well it is a legacy system designed by a non computer professional.

  (in fact I would usually prefer not to read any description
> before rating unless there is something doubtful in the image).
>

As an aside. I find is useful to read what the entrant wrote. It helps 
me split the score.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[FractRacer] Re: Renewed homepage Voting problem [4089 days 8 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Sun, 25 Jan 2015 20:20:06 GMT

Le 24/01/2015 14:19, Stephen a Ã©crit :
> On 13/01/2015 08:02, Stephen wrote:
>> There is a problem when voting for one of the entries. The scores are
>> not reflected in the overall voting page. And the site logic thinks that
>> you have not voted for that entry.
>> It would be better if no one voted until we get it fixed.
>>
>> Thanks for your patience.
>>
>
> There is another problem. The Challenge closed a day early So I have
> manually reopened it for another day. So that Christian and FractRacer*
> have the opportunity to vote and are not penalised.
>
>
> * And anyone else who would like to join in.
>
Voted! In the time limit.

-- 
Lionel
Do not judge my words, judge my actions.

---
L'absence de virus dans ce courrier Ã©lectronique a
Ã©tÃ© vÃ©rifiÃ©e par le logiciel antivirus
Avast.
http://www.avast.com

[Christian Froeschlin] Re: Renewed homepage Voting problem [4089 days 9 hours and 1 minute ago]

Sun, 25 Jan 2015 19:47:45 GMT

On 24.01.2015 14:19, Stephen wrote:

> There is another problem. The Challenge closed a day early So I have
> manually reopened it for another day. So that Christian and FractRacer*
> have the opportunity to vote and are not penalised.

Well, I guess after that effort I just had to vote :)

BTW is there a way to get the full image from the rating overview page
without going through the entry page with description and everything?
It seems the process requires a lot of page reloads now for not much
benefit (in fact I would usually prefer not to read any description
before rating unless there is something doubtful in the image).

[Stephen] Re: Renewed homepage Voting problem [4090 days 15 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Sat, 24 Jan 2015 13:19:34 GMT

On 13/01/2015 08:02, Stephen wrote:
> There is a problem when voting for one of the entries. The scores are
> not reflected in the overall voting page. And the site logic thinks that
> you have not voted for that entry.
> It would be better if no one voted until we get it fixed.
>
> Thanks for your patience.
>

There is another problem. The Challenge closed a day early So I have 
manually reopened it for another day. So that Christian and FractRacer* 
have the opportunity to vote and are not penalised.

* And anyone else who would like to join in.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Stephen] Re: Renewed homepage Voting problem [4099 days 9 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Thu, 15 Jan 2015 19:20:08 GMT

On 15/01/2015 18:09, jhu wrote:
> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
>> On 15/01/2015 08:11, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>> On 14-1-2015 19:39, Stephen wrote:
>>>> On 14/01/2015 18:34, jhu wrote:
>>>>> Is Thomas cheating again? lol
>>>>
>>>> Again? ;-)
>>>>
>>> I am always cheating! :-P
>>>
>>
>> It is cheating not to cheat. :-)
>>
>>
>
> If everyone is doing it, is it really cheating?
>
>
>
Only if you do it with one hand.


Hmm!

In a forest.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[jhu] Re: Renewed homepage Voting problem [4099 days 10 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Thu, 15 Jan 2015 18:10:00 GMT

Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> On 15/01/2015 08:11, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> > On 14-1-2015 19:39, Stephen wrote:
> >> On 14/01/2015 18:34, jhu wrote:
> >>> Is Thomas cheating again? lol
> >>
> >> Again? ;-)
> >>
> > I am always cheating! :-P
> >
>
> It is cheating not to cheat. :-)
>
>

If everyone is doing it, is it really cheating?

[Stephen] Re: Renewed homepage Voting problem [4099 days 19 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Thu, 15 Jan 2015 09:03:58 GMT

On 15/01/2015 08:11, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 14-1-2015 19:39, Stephen wrote:
>> On 14/01/2015 18:34, jhu wrote:
>>> Is Thomas cheating again? lol
>>
>> Again? ;-)
>>
> I am always cheating! :-P
>

It is cheating not to cheat. :-)

> Interestingly, that second image was initially uploaded much earlier
> than my 'official' one. Somehow it got invisible (maybe because I edited
> it a couple of times) and then reappeared when Colin gave the site a
> thorough rub down.
>


Strange! I saw it with a secondary login and voted for it.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: Renewed homepage Voting problem [4099 days 20 hours and 38 minutes ago]

Thu, 15 Jan 2015 08:11:21 GMT

On 14-1-2015 19:39, Stephen wrote:
> On 14/01/2015 18:34, jhu wrote:
>> Is Thomas cheating again? lol
>
> Again? ;-)
>
I am always cheating! :-P

Interestingly, that second image was initially uploaded much earlier 
than my 'official' one. Somehow it got invisible (maybe because I edited 
it a couple of times) and then reappeared when Colin gave the site a 
thorough rub down.

-- 
Thomas

[Stephen] Re: Renewed homepage Voting problem [4100 days 10 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Wed, 14 Jan 2015 18:39:44 GMT

On 14/01/2015 18:34, jhu wrote:
> Is Thomas cheating again? lol

Again? ;-)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[jhu] Re: Renewed homepage Voting problem [4100 days 10 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Wed, 14 Jan 2015 18:35:00 GMT

Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> On 13/01/2015 08:02, Stephen wrote:
> > There is a problem when voting for one of the entries. The scores are
> > not reflected in the overall voting page. And the site logic thinks that
> > you have not voted for that entry.
> > It would be better if no one voted until we get it fixed.
> >
> > Thanks for your patience.
> >
>
> We think that the problem has been fixed and voting can start again.
> Please check that your scoring is correct.
>
> Sean and jhu
> Besides checking your scoring. You might find that there is another
> image to vote on. A second test upload by Thomas.
> I only saw it today, myself.
>
> --
>
> Regards
>      Stephen

Is Thomas cheating again? lol

[Stephen] Re: Renewed homepage Voting problem [4100 days 12 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Wed, 14 Jan 2015 16:14:09 GMT

On 13/01/2015 08:02, Stephen wrote:
> There is a problem when voting for one of the entries. The scores are
> not reflected in the overall voting page. And the site logic thinks that
> you have not voted for that entry.
> It would be better if no one voted until we get it fixed.
>
> Thanks for your patience.
>

We think that the problem has been fixed and voting can start again.
Please check that your scoring is correct.

Sean and jhu
Besides checking your scoring. You might find that there is another 
image to vote on. A second test upload by Thomas.
I only saw it today, myself.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Stephen] Renewed homepage Voting problem [4101 days 20 hours and 47 minutes ago]

Tue, 13 Jan 2015 08:02:24 GMT

There is a problem when voting for one of the entries. The scores are 
not reflected in the overall voting page. And the site logic thinks that 
you have not voted for that entry.
It would be better if no one voted until we get it fixed.

Thanks for your patience.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC: Renewed homepage to become operational [4109 days 13 hours and 18 minutes ago]

Mon, 5 Jan 2015 15:31:05 GMT

On 5-1-2015 14:17, Bald Eagle wrote:
> OK,
> Log-in works now.
>
> View All Entrants still gives vastly different results between "guest" and
> "logged - in".  Final scores only lists 2 entrants in either mode.
>
>
>
>
>
As guest, you see the entrants' overview for each current Challenge in 
exactly the same way. The only difference is with Challenge 2 when you 
select an image and it brings you first to the image info page where a 
thumbnail enables you to view it. This is *not* the case with Challenge 1.

As logged in, you see only *your own* entries, either for Challenge 1 or 
for Challenge 2. That is not different from the old site version.

I do not understand your comment on final scores however.

-- 
Thomas

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC: Renewed homepage to become operational [4109 days 15 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Mon, 5 Jan 2015 13:45:26 GMT

On 05/01/2015 13:17, Bald Eagle wrote:
> OK,
> Log-in works now.
>

Good :-)

> View All Entrants still gives vastly different results between "guest" and
> "logged - in".  Final scores only lists 2 entrants in either mode.
>

I don't see what you describe.
Can you give a step by step path?
Thanks


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Bald Eagle] Re: TC-RTC: Renewed homepage to become operational [4109 days 15 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Mon, 5 Jan 2015 13:20:01 GMT

OK,
Log-in works now.

View All Entrants still gives vastly different results between "guest" and
"logged - in".  Final scores only lists 2 entrants in either mode.

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC: Renewed homepage to become operational [4109 days 19 hours and 17 minutes ago]

Mon, 5 Jan 2015 09:32:22 GMT

On 04/01/2015 18:39, jhu wrote:
> Oh no! Second challenge is CSG? Since going to Blender for most things, I think
> my Pov skills have gotten a little rusty. I hope to dazzle this round, hehe.
>
>
And here's one I prepared earlier. :-P


Not a bad example of CSG. :-)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Mr] Re: TC-RTC: Renewed homepage to become operational [4109 days 19 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Mon, 5 Jan 2015 09:10:01 GMT

"jhu" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Oh no! Second challenge is CSG? Since going to Blender for most things, I think
> my Pov skills have gotten a little rusty. I hope to dazzle this round, hehe.

I think Lanuhum's alternative version of the exporter does support CSG. :-P

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC: Renewed homepage to become operational [4109 days 20 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Mon, 5 Jan 2015 08:20:21 GMT

On 4-1-2015 19:39, jhu wrote:
> Oh no! Second challenge is CSG? Since going to Blender for most things, I think
> my Pov skills have gotten a little rusty. I hope to dazzle this round, hehe.
>

Life is tough indeed ;-)

-- 
Thomas

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC: Renewed homepage to become operational [4109 days 21 hours and 7 minutes ago]

Mon, 5 Jan 2015 07:41:42 GMT

On 04/01/2015 22:40, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Hmmm.
> Can't seem to log in.
>
> The links for viewing the results and entries don't seem to work right when
> you're not logged in.  I even get another entry that I didn't see when
> voting....
>

Would you check again. The developer was working on it last night.

> I think the website might need some testing.
>
>
That is what we are doing this week. Old chap. :-)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Bald Eagle] Re: TC-RTC: Renewed homepage to become operational [4110 days 6 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Sun, 4 Jan 2015 22:45:01 GMT

Hmmm.
Can't seem to log in.

The links for viewing the results and entries don't seem to work right when
you're not logged in.  I even get another entry that I didn't see when
voting....

I think the website might need some testing.

[jhu] Re: TC-RTC: Renewed homepage to become operational [4110 days 10 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Sun, 4 Jan 2015 18:40:01 GMT

Oh no! Second challenge is CSG? Since going to Blender for most things, I think
my Pov skills have gotten a little rusty. I hope to dazzle this round, hehe.

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC: Renewed homepage to become operational [4110 days 14 hours and 2 minutes ago]

Sun, 4 Jan 2015 14:47:04 GMT

On 01/01/2015 13:04, s.day wrote:
> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
>> What sort of time should be best for that sort of Challenge? Bearing in
>> mind the the voting period is fixed at two weeks.
>>
>> --
>
> For me about 2 weeks seems a reasonable length to generate an image, I think any
> shorter than that and the risk of too few or low quality entries will be a
> problem, I think it would be nice to have some POV only type rounds like
> CSG/Blobs/short code rounds but these need to be few and far between so as not
> to often exclude other renderers especially as the main competitor to the site
> does not use POV.
>
> Sean
>
>


Good, that fits in with needing to have a two week voting period. So the 
shortest time span will probably a four week minimum.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC: Renewed homepage to become operational [4111 days 6 hours and 2 minutes ago]

Sat, 3 Jan 2015 22:46:34 GMT

On 03/01/2015 22:26, Christian Froeschlin wrote:
> On 30.12.2014 13:29, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
>> On the 3rd of January 2015 the renewed TC-RTC site will become
>> operational. Amongst the improvements, most notably will be the
>> possibility to run two Challenges at the same time and of different
>> lengths.
>
> Sounds great, thank you!
>
> And congrats to Miss Piggy for winning last month's challenge 2 ;)
>


Shhhh!  ;-)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Christian Froeschlin] Re: TC-RTC: Renewed homepage to become operational [4111 days 6 hours and 22 minutes ago]

Sat, 3 Jan 2015 22:26:35 GMT

On 30.12.2014 13:29, Thomas de Groot wrote:

> On the 3rd of January 2015 the renewed TC-RTC site will become
> operational. Amongst the improvements, most notably will be the
> possibility to run two Challenges at the same time and of different
> lengths.

Sounds great, thank you!

And congrats to Miss Piggy for winning last month's challenge 2 ;)

[jhu] Re: TC-RTC: Results for the September/December 2... [4113 days 3 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Fri, 2 Jan 2015 00:50:01 GMT

Congrats sday. Well deserved.

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Results for the September/December 2014 ... [4113 days 13 hours ago]

Thu, 1 Jan 2015 15:48:39 GMT

The final results for the Challenge, after correction are:

1	Hidden passages				SeanDay		577
2	Kitchen remodel... and unexpected...	jhu1		527
3	Inbetween Worlds			Miri		515
4	Game					ThomdeG		512
5	Premonition				rmcgregor	510
6	Envoy					rmcgregor	491
7	Still Life and Street, redux		jhu1		490
8	The Secret Pond				MichaelJF	488
9	The Secret Passage			Miri		487
10	Secret Mark				DrNo		486
11	Northwest				ianm123		481
12	Secret Passage				BaldEagle	477
	The Heinzelmaennchen of Cologne		Miri		477
14	Gone!					DrNo		462
15	Exit					DrNo		452
16	Xibalba					JuuG		450
17	Unseen Swimmer				rmcgregor	446
18	Oh!					DrNo		429
19	Relic					ianm123		427
20	Pan American				DrNo		425
21	Merry Christmas				Miri		424

-- 
Thomas

[s day] Re: TC-RTC: Renewed homepage to become operational [4113 days 15 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Thu, 1 Jan 2015 13:05:01 GMT

Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> What sort of time should be best for that sort of Challenge? Bearing in
> mind the the voting period is fixed at two weeks.
>
> --

For me about 2 weeks seems a reasonable length to generate an image, I think any
shorter than that and the risk of too few or low quality entries will be a
problem, I think it would be nice to have some POV only type rounds like
CSG/Blobs/short code rounds but these need to be few and far between so as not
to often exclude other renderers especially as the main competitor to the site
does not use POV.

Sean

[s day] Re: TC-RTC: Renewed homepage to become operational [4113 days 15 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Thu, 1 Jan 2015 13:05:01 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 31-12-2014 8:14, jhu wrote:
> > Excellent! Although I still think 4 months is a little long for just an image.
> >
> >
>
> However, since we increased the Challenge from 2 to 4 months, the number
> of uploads have increased proportionally too! It seems that most
> participants need the 4 months to have the time to think about, build,
> and finish an image.
>
> THomas

Great news, thanks for the effort you put into this Thomas/Stephen.

For me the 4 months works well, of course if I ever complete an image in 2
months I would be wishing it was shorter but I could always work on a second
entry or with the new format take part in one of the shorter challenges which
sound very interesting.

Sean

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC: Renewed homepage to become operational [4114 days 19 hours and 53 minutes ago]

Wed, 31 Dec 2014 08:55:44 GMT

On 31/12/2014 08:14, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 31-12-2014 8:14, jhu wrote:
>> Excellent! Although I still think 4 months is a little long for just
>> an image.
>>
>>
>
> However, since we increased the Challenge from 2 to 4 months, the number
> of uploads have increased proportionally too! It seems that most
> participants need the 4 months to have the time to think about, build,
> and finish an image.
>

Now with the Second Challenge available. We will be running shorter 
Challenges alongside the four month one. That should keep DrNo happy. :-)

Speaking of him and his "roll your own" software. And full credit to 
him, for that.
We must remember that it is a "Rendering" challenge not solely a 
"Raytracing" one.
Never the less, I am sure we can show a little bias and have a short 
code Challenge soon. :-D

What sort of time should be best for that sort of Challenge? Bearing in 
mind the the voting period is fixed at two weeks.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC: Renewed homepage to become operational [4114 days 20 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Wed, 31 Dec 2014 08:14:49 GMT

On 31-12-2014 8:14, jhu wrote:
> Excellent! Although I still think 4 months is a little long for just an image.
>
>

However, since we increased the Challenge from 2 to 4 months, the number 
of uploads have increased proportionally too! It seems that most 
participants need the 4 months to have the time to think about, build, 
and finish an image.

THomas

[jhu] Re: TC-RTC: Renewed homepage to become operational [4114 days 21 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Wed, 31 Dec 2014 07:15:00 GMT

Excellent! Although I still think 4 months is a little long for just an image.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC: Renewed homepage to become operational [4115 days 13 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Tue, 30 Dec 2014 15:12:45 GMT

As Paolo has just correctly mentioned to us: Challenge 2 can also be 
used for short code contests :-)

Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Renewed homepage to become operational [4115 days 16 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Tue, 30 Dec 2014 12:29:07 GMT

On the 3rd of January 2015  the renewed TC-RTC site will become 
operational. Amongst the improvements, most notably will be the 
possibility to run two Challenges at the same time and of different 
lengths.

Challenge 1 will remain our familiar one of four months, this time 
without any mid-challenge break.

Challenge 2 will be dedicated to short periods on specialised topics 
(e.g. CSG, Cube Variation), selected  methodologies (e.g. Matrix, Media, 
Subsurface Scattering), or just quick fun (e.g Stickmen, Train Faces, 
Blob Madness). Challenge 2 will run for a couple of weeks in general 
followed by the familiar period of voting. However, Challenge 2 will not 
be in constant use and in-between sleep periods will ensure that people 
get enough time to work on Challenge 1. We do not want to over-exert our 
members!

Topics for Challenge 2 can be selected from the topics list or can be 
brought forward by every member through the appropriate channels.

Starting on January 3rd, we will run a short test on the site, one week 
upload (from 01-03 ca 18:00 hours to 01-10 ca 18:00 hours) followed by 
two weeks voting (from 01-10 ca 18:00 hours to 01-24 ca 18:00 hours) and 
focussed on Challenge 2. Start/end hours may be different of course. A 
test topic will be launched and we want to ask you to upload to it as 
with an official Challenge. Please report any difficulties or unwanted 
behaviour so that we can report back to Colin and have them corrected. 
We do not expect issues with Challenge 1 but if something untoward 
happens there please let us know.

Last but not least, we wish you all the best possible things and 
inspiration for 2015!

Regards,
Stephen & Thomas, Administrators

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Sept./Dec. 2014 Challenge: The Secret Pa... [4127 days 16 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Thu, 18 Dec 2014 12:38:17 GMT

Hi all,

At the TC-RTC http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html the 
September/December Stills Challenge: The Secret Passage, has been closed 
for upload.

Those of you who are members may now vote for the best images. Please 
vote for *all* images if you want your votes to be valid. Those of you 
who are not members, may consider to become one? You are more than 
welcome indeed.

The new upcoming Challenge will again run for four months (January/April 
2015) and its topic will be: *Complex*.

See the website for more details.

Stephen & Thomas, TC-RTC Administrators

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: The Secret Passage - continued in Part 2 [4189 days 21 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Fri, 17 Oct 2014 07:40:12 GMT

Hi all,

The September/December 2014 Stills Challenge: The Secret Passage, is on 
hold until the end of October. Once more, this is due to the 
transitional phase of site rebuilding. Uploading of images will be 
possible again from November, 1st onwards to The Secret Passage â€“
Part 2.

!! Remember that images already uploaded need to be uploaded again !!

!! Remember that voting at this stage is not allowed !!

Cast votes will be ignored. Proper voting for the Challenge must wait 
till mid-December.


Stephen & Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC: Results for the MAy/August 2014 Chal... [4234 days 21 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Tue, 2 Sep 2014 07:23:33 GMT

On 2-9-2014 7:14, jhu wrote:
> Wow, I actually won something! Woo! Thanks y'all!
>
>
Our pleasure.

Thomas

[jhu] Re: TC-RTC: Results for the MAy/August 2014 Chal... [4234 days 23 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Tue, 2 Sep 2014 05:20:00 GMT

Wow, I actually won something! Woo! Thanks y'all!

[FractRacer] Re: TC-RTC: Results for the MAy/August 2014 Chal... [4235 days 9 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Mon, 1 Sep 2014 19:34:52 GMT

Le 01/09/2014 09:58, Thomas de Groot a Ã©crit :
> The final results for the Challenge, after correction are:
>
> 1    Nowhere to run            jhu1        426
> 2    The Stare Down            jhu1        425
> 3    The Decoy            SeanDay        419
> 4    The Enemy            ThomdeG        370
> 5    On the air            DrNo        366
> 6    Alien                DrNo        361
> 7    Kaiju                DrNo        352
> 8    The Red Weeds            jacoons        343
> 9    War in the skies        FractRacer    342
> 10    Invasion            ianm123        340
> 11    Green Peace            DrNo        334
> 12    At Night They Walk Around    jacoons        329
> 13    Martian                ianm123        314
>
> Congratulations to the winners!
>
> Thomas & Stephen

Well done Jhu! Nowhere to run is a great image.

Lionel.

-- 
Do not judge my words, judge my actions.

---
Ce courrier Ã©lectronique ne contient aucun virus ou logiciel malveillant
parce que la protection avast! Antivirus est active.
http://www.avast.com

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Results for the MAy/August 2014 Challeng... [4235 days 20 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Mon, 1 Sep 2014 07:58:29 GMT

The final results for the Challenge, after correction are:

1	Nowhere to run			jhu1		426
2	The Stare Down			jhu1		425
3	The Decoy			SeanDay		419
4	The Enemy			ThomdeG		370
5	On the air			DrNo		366
6	Alien				DrNo		361
7	Kaiju				DrNo		352
8	The Red Weeds			jacoons		343
9	War in the skies		FractRacer	342
10	Invasion			ianm123		340
11	Green Peace			DrNo		334
12	At Night They Walk Around	jacoons		329
13	Martian				ianm123		314

Congratulations to the winners!

Thomas & Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: The May/August 2014 Challenge: The War o... [4249 days 16 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Mon, 18 Aug 2014 11:54:14 GMT

Hi all,

At the TC-RTC http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html the May/August 
Stills Challenge: The War of the Worlds, has been closed for upload.

Those of you who are members may now vote for the best images. Please 
vote for *all* images if you want your votes to be valid. Those of you 
who are not members, may consider to become one? You are more than 
welcome indeed.

The new upcoming Challenge will again run for four months 
(September/December 2014) and its topic will be: *The Secret Passage by 
Fergus Hume, 1859-1932*.

See the website for more details.

Stephen & Thomas, TC-RTC Administrators

[Thomas de Groot] TC_RTC: The War of the Worlds - continued in Part2 [4306 days 21 hours and 7 minutes ago]

Sun, 22 Jun 2014 07:41:56 GMT

Hi all,

The May/August 2014 Stills Challenge: The War of the Worlds, is on hold 
until the end of June. Once more, this is due to the transitional phase 
of site rebuilding. Uploading of images will be possible again from July 
1st onwards to The War of the Worlds – Part 2.

*!! Remember that images already uploaded to the May/June Part need to 
be uploaded again !!*

Voting at this stage is not allowed. Already cast votes will be ignored. 
Proper voting for the Challenge must wait till mid-August.

Stephen & Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC: Results for the January/April 2014 C... [4356 days 21 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Sat, 3 May 2014 07:13:48 GMT

On 2-5-2014 23:10, FractRacer wrote:

> Congratulations to Robert Mac Gregor, a actual monument in the Pov-Ray
> scene. For the next round I hope the king will be dethrone (lol).

Robert's work is remarkable indeed and difficult to - at least - equal. 
So, abandon your vain hopes, and despair! :-)

Thomas

[FractRacer] Re: TC-RTC: Results for the January/April 2014 C... [4357 days 7 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Fri, 2 May 2014 21:08:13 GMT

Le 01/05/2014 14:02, Thomas de Groot a Ã©crit :
> Hi all,
>
> The final results for the Challenge Star have been verified,
> recalculated, and reverified. This was necessary as one participant
> failed to vote for all the uploaded images. So we are happy to announce
> the following list:
>
> 1    mcgregor    Starfruit Vanitas        733
> 2    SeanDay        Starfish            721
> 3    ThomdeG        Supernova            630
> 4    DrNo        A star is born            621
> 5    septime        Confluence            613
> 6    JuuG        Toward the 12th Star        592
> 7    DrNo        Starry                585
> 8    FractRacer    End of a star            580
> 9    jhul        Star Trails            579
> 10    DrNo        I shot the sheriff        573
> 11    lequenne    A faster then light trip    571
> 12    jhul        my God ï¿½ it's full of stars!    556
> 13    JuuG        Stargate Andromeda        538
> 14    DrNo        Death Star            532
> 15    DrNo        Exposure            525
> 16    LeForgeron    Hedron again            524
> 17    lequenne    midnight kiss            523
> 18    ianm123        TELSTAR                521
> 19    DrNo        Pentastar            511
> 20    FractRacer    Nova_Wings            510
> 21    JuuG        Starship Eridanus        497
> 22    CubicApoc    Nova Solaris            486
>
> Congratulations to the winners and thanks to all who participated and/or
> voted.
>
> Thomas & Stephen

Congratulations to Robert Mac Gregor, a actual monument in the Pov-Ray 
scene. For the next round I hope the king will be dethrone (lol).

Lionel

-- 
Do not judge my words, judge my actions.

---
Ce courrier Ã©lectronique ne contient aucun virus ou logiciel malveillant
parce que la protection avast! Antivirus est active.
http://www.avast.com

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Results for the January/April 2014 Chall... [4358 days 16 hours and 47 minutes ago]

Thu, 1 May 2014 12:02:22 GMT

Hi all,

The final results for the Challenge Star have been verified, 
recalculated, and reverified. This was necessary as one participant 
failed to vote for all the uploaded images. So we are happy to announce 
the following list:

1	mcgregor	Starfruit Vanitas		733
2	SeanDay		Starfish			721
3	ThomdeG		Supernova			630
4	DrNo		A star is born			621
5	septime		Confluence			613
6	JuuG		Toward the 12th Star		592
7	DrNo		Starry				585
8	FractRacer	End of a star			580
9	jhul		Star Trails			579
10	DrNo		I shot the sheriff		573
11	lequenne	A faster then light trip	571
12	jhul		my God ï¿½ it's full of stars!	556
13	JuuG		Stargate Andromeda		538
14	DrNo		Death Star			532
15	DrNo		Exposure			525
16	LeForgeron	Hedron again			524
17	lequenne	midnight kiss			523
18	ianm123		TELSTAR				521
19	DrNo		Pentastar			511
20	FractRacer	Nova_Wings			510
21	JuuG		Starship Eridanus		497
22	CubicApoc	Nova Solaris			486

Congratulations to the winners and thanks to all who participated and/or 
voted.

Thomas & Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: vote counter , a problem: Do NOT vote yet! [4372 days 17 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Thu, 17 Apr 2014 11:11:57 GMT

On 17-4-2014 10:21, Le_Forgeron wrote:

> Well, now I received an email to vote... I did... and it displays "you
> have voted for 22 of the 21 entries".
>
> There is still a problem, somewhere.
>

Possibly. In any case, you voted for all entries (except your own of 
course) so that is ok. For the time being, I should just consider this 
as a glitch in the feedback. As Colin is busy making changes, I suspect 
that it comes from there.

Issue noted. If anybody meets something similar while voting, please 
report it here!

Thomas

[Le Forgeron] Re: vote counter , a problem: Do NOT vote yet! [4372 days 20 hours and 28 minutes ago]

Thu, 17 Apr 2014 08:21:19 GMT

Le 05/04/2014 17:01, Thomas de Groot nous fit lire :
> On 5-4-2014 16:41, Le_Forgeron wrote:
>> I got a problem, now that I voted for all the entries of this round
>> (Star, part 2):
>>
>>
>> Use below to vote for 12 of the 13 entries (1 image is yours)
>> You have voted for 13 of the 12 entries
>> (You need to vote for all entries before they are counted)
>>
>>
>> And no, I did not vote for my own entry. 13 / 12 ? where is the hidden
>> one ? the  voting page displays 13 pictures, mine included...
>>
> 
> There currently is an error in the system! It is known to us and has
> been reported to Colin.
> 
> Nobody should be able to vote at this moment as the upload period is not
> over yet. So, whatever happens, consider all votes as temporary and/or
> void.
> 
> We are at this moment working on the upgrade of the site which should be
> effective somewhere in the coming days. We shall then enter a beta
> period in which we shall ask all members to report on errors etc.
> 
> Please be patient. We cross our fingers and hope all is going to
> function according to rules and expectations :-)
> 
> Thomas

Well, now I received an email to vote... I did... and it displays "you
have voted for 22 of the 21 entries".

There is still a problem, somewhere.

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: The January/April 2014 Challenge: Star n... [4372 days 20 hours and 43 minutes ago]

Thu, 17 Apr 2014 08:06:04 GMT

Hi all,

At the TC-RTC http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html the current 
Challenge *Star* has closed and we have a record number of 22 images!

Those of you who are members may now vote for the best images. Those of 
you who are not members, maybe you would consider to become one? You are 
more than welcome indeed.

A new, four months Challenge is also announced for the period 
May/August2014: *The War of the Worlds, by Wells, H. G. (1866-1946)*. 
See the website for details.

Thomas & Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: vote counter , a problem: Do NOT vote yet! [4384 days 13 hours and 47 minutes ago]

Sat, 5 Apr 2014 15:01:55 GMT

On 5-4-2014 16:41, Le_Forgeron wrote:
> I got a problem, now that I voted for all the entries of this round
> (Star, part 2):
>
>
> Use below to vote for 12 of the 13 entries (1 image is yours)
> You have voted for 13 of the 12 entries
> (You need to vote for all entries before they are counted)
>
>
> And no, I did not vote for my own entry. 13 / 12 ? where is the hidden
> one ? the  voting page displays 13 pictures, mine included...
>

There currently is an error in the system! It is known to us and has 
been reported to Colin.

Nobody should be able to vote at this moment as the upload period is not 
over yet. So, whatever happens, consider all votes as temporary and/or void.

We are at this moment working on the upgrade of the site which should be 
effective somewhere in the coming days. We shall then enter a beta 
period in which we shall ask all members to report on errors etc.

Please be patient. We cross our fingers and hope all is going to 
function according to rules and expectations :-)

Thomas

[Le Forgeron] vote counter , a problem [4384 days 14 hours and 7 minutes ago]

Sat, 5 Apr 2014 14:41:55 GMT

I got a problem, now that I voted for all the entries of this round
(Star, part 2):


Use below to vote for 12 of the 13 entries (1 image is yours)
You have voted for 13 of the 12 entries
(You need to vote for all entries before they are counted)


And no, I did not vote for my own entry. 13 / 12 ? where is the hidden
one ? the  voting page displays 13 pictures, mine included...

[Stephen] Re: tc-rtc problems? [4415 days 7 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Wed, 5 Mar 2014 21:32:41 GMT

On 05/03/2014 8:35 PM, Le_Forgeron wrote:
> It seems the site is alive, but brain-dead for members:
> * it remembers that I have made one submission (that's a good point, and
> the picture is still there)
> * but there is no entries for which to vote in Rating Area
> "You have voted for all of the 0 entries (your votes will be counted)"...
>
> before the 1st March, there was at least 6 entries. And I rated them
> (excepted mine, of course).
>

Sorry, maybe we should publish it more often. But until a bit of testing 
and fixing has been done. We are running the same Challenge back to back 
to get a longer time span.
So, if you upload your image in the first part of the Challenge then you 
will need to upload it again the next period.
When, if ever, we get the revamped site online. There will be two 
Challenges running concurrently with independent time frames. So we 
could run Long and short Challenges.
The developer has twice asked if he can release the code and I've twice 
said yes if he can fix the minor faults on a s/sheet I sent him.
I will try and phone him this weekend and get the ball rolling again.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

I solemnly promise to kick the next angle, I see.

[Le Forgeron] Re: tc-rtc problems? [4415 days 8 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Wed, 5 Mar 2014 20:35:14 GMT

Le 03/03/2014 16:11, Thomas de Groot nous fit lire :
> On 3-3-2014 13:14, Stephen wrote:
>> No, no. A Glasgow kiss is a headbut.
>> The kicks were just part og the general "doing". As in "give it a doing".
>>
>> :-)
> 
> Oh well, I believe I better not ask a Glasgow girl for a kiss then... :-)
> 
> Thomas
> 
It seems the site is alive, but brain-dead for members:
* it remembers that I have made one submission (that's a good point, and
the picture is still there)
* but there is no entries for which to vote in Rating Area
"You have voted for all of the 0 entries (your votes will be counted)"...

before the 1st March, there was at least 6 entries. And I rated them
(excepted mine, of course).

[Thomas de Groot] Re: tc-rtc problems? [4417 days 13 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Mar 2014 15:11:33 GMT

On 3-3-2014 13:14, Stephen wrote:
> No, no. A Glasgow kiss is a headbut.
> The kicks were just part og the general "doing". As in "give it a doing".
>
> :-)

Oh well, I believe I better not ask a Glasgow girl for a kiss then... :-)

Thomas

[Stephen] Re: tc-rtc problems? [4417 days 16 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Mar 2014 12:15:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 2-3-2014 17:07, Stephen wrote:
> > On 02/03/2014 3:16 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> >>
> >> We need to look into this.
> >
> > All it needed was a kiss. - A Glasgow one. ;-)
> >
> > I think that it is working now. Don't ask me why. I lost count of the
> > number of kicks, I gave it. :-D
> >
>
> Aah... /those/ are Glasgow kisses then... Sweet! :-)
>

No, no. A Glasgow kiss is a headbut.
The kicks were just part og the general "doing". As in "give it a doing".

:-)

[Thomas de Groot] Re: tc-rtc problems? [4417 days 20 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Mar 2014 08:42:59 GMT

On 2-3-2014 17:07, Stephen wrote:
> On 02/03/2014 3:16 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>
>> We need to look into this.
>
> All it needed was a kiss. - A Glasgow one. ;-)
>
> I think that it is working now. Don't ask me why. I lost count of the
> number of kicks, I gave it. :-D
>

Aah... /those/ are Glasgow kisses then... Sweet! :-)

Thomas

[Stephen] Re: tc-rtc problems? [4418 days 12 hours and 42 minutes ago]

Sun, 2 Mar 2014 16:07:27 GMT

On 02/03/2014 3:16 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
> We need to look into this.

All it needed was a kiss. - A Glasgow one. ;-)

I think that it is working now. Don't ask me why. I lost count of the 
number of kicks, I gave it. :-D

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

I solemnly promise to kick the next angle, I see.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: tc-rtc problems? [4418 days 13 hours and 32 minutes ago]

Sun, 2 Mar 2014 15:16:42 GMT

On 2-3-2014 13:10, Doctor John wrote:
> There appears to be a problem with the site. Screenshot attached
>
> John
>

<sigh>
Well, there is apparently. I believe that the culprit is the fact that I 
cannot link the "Topic" from the topics list (i.e. Star) to the 
extension of the Challenge. In the past, I generally could, but this 
time the topic has disappeared. [grumble grumble]

We need to look into this.

Thomas

[Doctor John] tc-rtc problems? [4418 days 16 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Sun, 2 Mar 2014 12:12:28 GMT

There appears to be a problem with the site. Screenshot attached

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

[Thomas de Groot] Re: current trtcrc ends in april or february? [4448 days 15 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Fri, 31 Jan 2014 12:59:33 GMT

On 31-1-2014 13:20, Doctor John wrote:
> On 31/01/14 08:25, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> Just so.
>>
>> [now, where did I get that expression from?]
>>
>> Thomas
>
> Rudyard Kipling?
>
> <wanders off, kipling> Kiple, kiple, kiple
>

No (although it may come from there through the author, who knows). It 
is an expression much used by the people on the continent Essos (across 
from Westeros) in 'A Song of Ice and Fire' by George Martin. A huge 
story spread over five huge volumes to date, with two more to be 
published in future. I am almost finishing the fifth volume (A Dance 
with Dragons) and, although I am rather critical about fantasy in 
general, I think this is a major read. The plot is highly elaborate, 
inventive, and surprising; the characters' psychology is mostly sound 
and necessarily complex; the locations are original and believable.

Probably better known by its HBO series name "Game of Thrones". However, 
I always prefer the books over the film, although I have not seen them 
in this case and they are reputedly well made.

Thomas

[Doctor John] Re: current trtcrc ends in april or february? [4448 days 16 hours and 28 minutes ago]

Fri, 31 Jan 2014 12:21:06 GMT

On 31/01/14 08:25, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> Just so.
> 
> [now, where did I get that expression from?]
> 
> Thomas

Rudyard Kipling?

<wanders off, kipling> Kiple, kiple, kiple

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

[Thomas de Groot] Re: current trtcrc ends in april or february? [4448 days 20 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Fri, 31 Jan 2014 08:25:10 GMT

On 29-1-2014 18:17, jhu wrote:
> "jhu" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>
>> Oh good. That means I can procrastinate some more.
>
> I mean render. Yeah, I can render longer...
>
>
Just so.

[now, where did I get that expression from?]

Thomas

[Doctor John] Re: current trtcrc ends in april or february? [4450 days 10 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:54:05 GMT

On 29/01/14 17:17, jhu wrote:
> "jhu" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> 
>> Oh good. That means I can procrastinate some more.
> 
> I mean render. Yeah, I can render longer... 

:-D

-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

[jhu] Re: current trtcrc ends in april or february? [4450 days 11 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:20:00 GMT

"jhu" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

> Oh good. That means I can procrastinate some more.

I mean render. Yeah, I can render longer...

[jhu] Re: current trtcrc ends in april or february? [4450 days 13 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Jan 2014 15:35:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:

> It is April and not February. Only consider the floating clock as that
> is the real time for the challenge. Due to the fact that we have still
> not been able to upgrade the site, we still have to cope with the
> discrepancy. Best is to wait till beginning of March to upload your
> image(s) for the Star Challenge otherwise you might need to upload twice
> like in the preceding challenges. Not a big deal but irritating, I know.
> Take patience, changes will come through in the end ;-)
>
> Thomas

Oh good. That means I can procrastinate some more.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: current trtcrc ends in april or february? [4450 days 20 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Jan 2014 08:34:29 GMT

On 29-1-2014 1:15, jhu wrote:
> I'm confused. The stills page states 77 days until it ends. But when I log in,
> it says it ends on February 28? So, which is it?
>
>
It is April and not February. Only consider the floating clock as that 
is the real time for the challenge. Due to the fact that we have still 
not been able to upgrade the site, we still have to cope with the 
discrepancy. Best is to wait till beginning of March to upload your 
image(s) for the Star Challenge otherwise you might need to upload twice 
like in the preceding challenges. Not a big deal but irritating, I know. 
Take patience, changes will come through in the end ;-)

Thomas

[jhu] current trtcrc ends in april or february? [4451 days 4 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Jan 2014 00:20:01 GMT

I'm confused. The stills page states 77 days until it ends. But when I log in,
it says it ends on February 28? So, which is it?

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC: Results for the September/December 2... [4459 days 20 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Mon, 20 Jan 2014 08:19:28 GMT

On 19-1-2014 20:43, Christian Froeschlin wrote:
> On 19.01.2014 9:43, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
>> After some initial problems with the site at the start of this year, we
>> are happy to announce the winners of the Legends Challenge.
>
> Did these problems include wrong results in the newsletter
> yesterday? Because that one listed first two as
>
> 1    Lequenne    The finding of Moses    541
> 2    mcgregor    Ol'Nessie    521
>
>
No, that was an unfortunate spreadsheet error

I only sent a later correction newsletter to the two winners concerned, 
and Normand was the one who drew my attention to the error.

Thomas

[Christian Froeschlin] Re: TC-RTC: Results for the September/December 2... [4460 days 9 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Sun, 19 Jan 2014 19:43:40 GMT

On 19.01.2014 9:43, Thomas de Groot wrote:

> After some initial problems with the site at the start of this year, we
> are happy to announce the winners of the Legends Challenge.

Did these problems include wrong results in the newsletter
yesterday? Because that one listed first two as

1	Lequenne	The finding of Moses	541
2	mcgregor	Ol'Nessie	521

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Results for the September/December 2013 ... [4460 days 20 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Sun, 19 Jan 2014 08:43:18 GMT

After some initial problems with the site at the start of this year, we 
are happy to announce the winners of the Legends Challenge. Go to : 
http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html to see the images.

Note:
1) mcgregor did not vote this round, so no bonus points are attributed.
2) lequenne only voted for some images, so his votes are invalid and no 
bonus points are attributed.

1 mcgregor Ol'Nessie 561
2 Lequenne The finding of Moses 541
3 DrNo Ambush 501
4 DrNo Glace 489
5 ianm123 Flying Dutchman 488
6 DrNo Tenacious 474
7 ianm123 Yeti 466
7 lequenne Faerie Tale 466
9 MichaelF Tillxao 457
10 DrNo Jobs 453
11 ianm123 Excalibur 447
12 DrNo Greek 439
13 ianm123 Amelia 435
14 Kenw Abominable 418
15 lequenne The pink star 393

Congrats to the winners!

Thomas

____

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC: The September/December 2013 Challeng... [4475 days 15 hours and 28 minutes ago]

Sat, 4 Jan 2014 13:21:10 GMT

Just for your info (in case you were wondering). There are issues with 
the availability to us of the final votes, so no definitive winners have 
been announced yet. Stay tuned.

Thomas & Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: The September/December 2013 Challenge: L... [4492 days 16 hours and 23 minutes ago]

Wed, 18 Dec 2013 12:26:19 GMT

Hi all,

At the TC-RTC http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html The current 
Challenge *Legends* has closed. Those of you who are members may now 
vote for the best images. Those of you who are not members, maybe you 
would consider to become one? You are more than welcome indeed.

A new, four month Challenge is also announced for the period 
January/April 2014: *Star*. See the website for details.

Thomas & Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Legends - continued [4539 days 20 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 Nov 2013 08:25:15 GMT

After a short time-out, the Legends Challenge continues at the TC-RTC 
during the months of November and December.

See http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/display/index.html

Currently, we have three uploads and we expect many more before the 
close of the Challenge. Unleash the power of your imagination :-)

Thomas & Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC Forum registration [4582 days 14 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Thu, 19 Sep 2013 14:08:44 GMT

On 19-9-2013 14:38, s.day wrote:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>>
>> You have been activated, Sean. Thanks for your patience. I still did not
>> get the notification directly so I shall have to look into the problem
>> and solve it somehow, but that is not /your/ problem ;-)
>>
>> Thomas
>
> Thanks Thomas,
>
> Just logged on and posted a message to check it is all working.
>

Good.

I am worried that, this time, I did not get any notice from the forum 
about your application. I shall monitor the forum applications, if any, 
closely.

Thomas

[s day] Re: TC Forum registration [4582 days 16 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Thu, 19 Sep 2013 12:40:01 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>
> You have been activated, Sean. Thanks for your patience. I still did not
> get the notification directly so I shall have to look into the problem
> and solve it somehow, but that is not /your/ problem ;-)
>
> Thomas

Thanks Thomas,

Just logged on and posted a message to check it is all working.

Sean

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC Forum registration [4584 days 21 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Tue, 17 Sep 2013 07:13:27 GMT

On 16-9-2013 21:38, s.day wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
>
> I have re-submitted a registration, it would not let me use the same
> username/email address so the new username is SeanDayTC.
>

You have been activated, Sean. Thanks for your patience. I still did not 
get the notification directly so I shall have to look into the problem 
and solve it somehow, but that is not /your/ problem ;-)

Thomas

[s day] TC Forum registration [4585 days 9 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Mon, 16 Sep 2013 19:40:00 GMT

Hi Thomas,

I have re-submitted a registration, it would not let me use the same
username/email address so the new username is SeanDayTC.

Thanks

Sean

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Elements of Geology - voting results [4596 days 21 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Thu, 5 Sep 2013 07:24:32 GMT

The definitive and authoritative voting results for the 
http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/previouscompetition/stills.html Challenge are 
in. Please note that on the mentioned site the order of winners is 
*wrong* due to faulty automatic tabulation (we are working at 
eradicating that bug).

One voter did only vote for /one/ image, so that value was deleted from 
the total count. Total voting points are given here, without and with 
the bonus points for completeness sake.

*First Place*
Giants by Sean Day (539 / 599)

*Second Place*
The Racetrack by mcgregor (523 / 583)

*Third Place*
Bronze Water Flame by Shay (518 / 578)

The following lists the voting results for the other images, in no 
particular order:

Moulin of Glacier (332 / 392)
Moulin of Glacier - another view (331 / 391)
Global Warning (361 / 421)
Erosion (425 / 485)
Elements of History (446 / 506)
Moss (456 / 516)
Strike (417 / 477)
Elemental Crevasse (460 / 520)
Under the Arch (480 / 540)
Eruption (458 / 518)
Hole (460 / 520)
Ages of the World (501 / 561)
No Prospect of an End (443 / 503)
Postcard from the Permian (453 / 513)
My Hammer (445 / 505)

Thomas & Stephen

[Shay] Re: TC-RTC A new approach for the next Challenge [4603 days 14 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Thu, 29 Aug 2013 13:52:32 GMT

"John Coppens"  wrote in message 
news:201### [at] johncoppenscom...

> I would rather have presented them in the
> hope of learning or receiving constructive criticism, but I never had any
> of that.
> <snip>
> - Taking into account the previous point, I do propose a voting system
> for the comment section. I believe constructive comments should be
> awarded...

The constructive criticism thing sounds good in theory, but youâ€™ll
have to 
explicitly subordinate yourself to others if you expect to receive 
constructive criticism, and most people arenâ€™t willing to do that. 
Unsolicited offerings of constructive criticism are almost always met with 
resistance.

In a perfect world, we as audience would just openly react to images and we 
as artists would in time discover how to get the reactions we desire. This 
isnâ€™t a perfect world. People want compliments, and if the images are
being 
judged, people want to know why you didnâ€™t give them three 20s.
"10-8-6" is 
better than "Nice Lighting! 10-8-6."

So, youâ€™ve got to react solely with numbers (no compliments) or
articulate 
your reaction with text (warts and all). This is guaranteed to make you 
unpopular, because, for whatever reason, artists almost invariably read your 
criticisms as â€œyou should have â€¦â€
rather than â€œIâ€™d have liked it more if
â€¦â€. 
Secret balloting is the best way to keep your friends.

-Shay

[MichaelJF] Re: TC-RTC September/December 2013 Challenge: Le... [4611 days 9 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Wed, 21 Aug 2013 19:00:01 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Personally, I am not too sure about modern legends as they may not yet
> have proven to be real legends, and there are so many older ones waiting
> to be unveiled ;-)
Yes, you're right. I only thought about it a while. To my step daughter Justin
Biber is a living legend...

> Till is a good choice. Well known here too, especially through the book
> by Flemish writer Charles de Coster. Curious to see how you are going to
> link him to Willi Baumeister.
It will be a weird interpretion of one of the last images Willi Baumeister made
in the year of his death 1955. A surrealistic interpretation of one of his
"Bluxao" series.

Best regards,
Michael

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC September/December 2013 Challenge: Le... [4611 days 21 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Wed, 21 Aug 2013 07:19:03 GMT

On 20-8-2013 20:20, MichaelJF wrote:
> Yes, we have a lot of wonderful images this round and the next topic has the
> potential of yielding even more inspiration. I wonder if one of the guys came up
> with the legend of Lady Godiva...
>
> At the moment I wonder what can be called a modern legend. Despite the fact that
> I tend in music more to Simone Simmons from the Netherlands or Tarja Turunen
> from Finland at the moment, the musician I visited most concerts in my life (5
> in fact) is the now late Jon Lord with his "boy group". I would call him
> a legend. (And I think without his combination of classic and rock, no one have
> came up with the idea to combine opera with heavy metal, like Simone Simmons
> (Epica) or Tarja Turunen (Nightwish)).

Personally, I am not too sure about modern legends as they may not yet 
have proven to be real legends, and there are so many older ones waiting 
to be unveiled ;-)

>
> But I will not go for an "Tribute to Jon Lord" picture. My first idea is to
> combine another modern German legend with an old German legend: Willi Baumeister
> and Till Eulenspiegel.

Till is a good choice. Well known here too, especially through the book 
by Flemish writer Charles de Coster. Curious to see how you are going to 
link him to Willi Baumeister.

Thomas

[MichaelJF] Re: TC-RTC September/December 2013 Challenge: Le... [4612 days 10 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Tue, 20 Aug 2013 18:25:01 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 20-8-2013 14:22, Shay wrote:
> > Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> >
> >> TC-RTC members are now kindly invited to vote for the uploaded images.
> >
> > Looking forward to it. I even made a little Python program to help me. Looks
> > like a strong round, even though I've only seen the latest few entries on my
> > Blackberry. No Internet where I'm at, so final review and voting will have to
> > wait.
>
> Yes. I believe we have a good collection of strong images.
>
> >
> >> The new upcoming Challenge will run for *four months*
> >> (September/December 2013) and its topic will be: *Legends*.
> >
> > I was going to sit the next one out, but Legends is tempting.
>
> Of course it is tempting! This too could be a strong round indeed.
>
> Thomas

Yes, we have a lot of wonderful images this round and the next topic has the
potential of yielding even more inspiration. I wonder if one of the guys came up
with the legend of Lady Godiva...

At the moment I wonder what can be called a modern legend. Despite the fact that
I tend in music more to Simone Simmons from the Netherlands or Tarja Turunen
from Finland at the moment, the musician I visited most concerts in my life (5
in fact) is the now late Jon Lord with his "boy group". I would call him
a legend. (And I think without his combination of classic and rock, no one have
came up with the idea to combine opera with heavy metal, like Simone Simmons
(Epica) or Tarja Turunen (Nightwish)).

But I will not go for an "Tribute to Jon Lord" picture. My first idea is to
combine another modern German legend with an old German legend: Willi Baumeister
and Till Eulenspiegel.

Best regards,
Michael

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC September/December 2013 Challenge: Le... [4612 days 14 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Tue, 20 Aug 2013 14:32:36 GMT

On 20-8-2013 14:22, Shay wrote:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>
>> TC-RTC members are now kindly invited to vote for the uploaded images.
>
> Looking forward to it. I even made a little Python program to help me. Looks
> like a strong round, even though I've only seen the latest few entries on my
> Blackberry. No Internet where I'm at, so final review and voting will have to
> wait.

Yes. I believe we have a good collection of strong images.

>
>> The new upcoming Challenge will run for *four months*
>> (September/December 2013) and its topic will be: *Legends*.
>
> I was going to sit the next one out, but Legends is tempting.

Of course it is tempting! This too could be a strong round indeed.

Thomas

[Shay] Re: TC-RTC September/December 2013 Challenge: Le... [4612 days 16 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Tue, 20 Aug 2013 12:25:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:

> TC-RTC members are now kindly invited to vote for the uploaded images.

Looking forward to it. I even made a little Python program to help me. Looks
like a strong round, even though I've only seen the latest few entries on my
Blackberry. No Internet where I'm at, so final review and voting will have to
wait.

> The new upcoming Challenge will run for *four months*
> (September/December 2013) and its topic will be: *Legends*.

I was going to sit the next one out, but Legends is tempting.

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC September/December 2013 Challenge: Legends [4613 days 14 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Mon, 19 Aug 2013 14:12:55 GMT

The May/August 2013 Stills Challenge: *Elements of Geology*, has ended.

See http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/display/index.html

TC-RTC members are now kindly invited to vote for the uploaded images. 
As usual, they can do this till the end of the current month. Do not 
forget to vote for all the images if you want your votes to be valid!

The new upcoming Challenge will run for *four months* 
(September/December 2013) and its topic will be: *Legends*.

With Legends we may explore a wide range of possible subjects. Think 
about Atlantis or King Arthur; or maybe you feel more attracted to the 
Trojan Wars or the deeds of Alexander the Great. It may also be that 
Urban Legends have your attention, or legendary gadgets like the Amiga. 
Whatever you select, we want you to explore unexpected approaches. Amaze 
us with undreamed of monsters of Loch Ness.

At the drawing board!

Stephen & Thomas, TC-RTC Administrators

[Shay] Re: TC-RTC Thumbnails don't work. [4619 days 9 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Tue, 13 Aug 2013 18:58:06 GMT

> FYI Thomas and I are testing the new improved version with two 
> concurrent Challenges and flexible time lines.

Excellent.

-Shay

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC Thumbnails don't work. [4619 days 10 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Tue, 13 Aug 2013 18:19:03 GMT

On 13/08/2013 6:59 PM, Shay wrote:
> The thumbnail is replaced by a distorted version of my image. I know
> it's hard for you to fix these things--just giving you a heads up.
>

Thanks Shay, it is a known issue. We have the developer working on the 
site, now. And when we get the current changes done we will look into it.
BTW The thumbnails work even less well for me. There is no image at all 
when I upload one. :-)

FYI Thomas and I are testing the new improved version with two 
concurrent Challenges and flexible time lines.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[Shay] TC-RTC Thumbnails don't work. [4619 days 10 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Tue, 13 Aug 2013 17:59:32 GMT

The thumbnail is replaced by a distorted version of my image. I know it's 
hard for you to fix these things--just giving you a heads up.

-Shay

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC: Elements of Geology - short time-out [4632 days 8 hours and 3 minutes ago]

Wed, 31 Jul 2013 20:46:23 GMT

On 31/07/2013 8:59 PM, Shay wrote:
> What is the last day to upload images?

Hmm! A bit of confusion here. I think it is Midnight of the 17th of 
August. Whether that is GMT or BST, I am not too sure. It should be 15 
days before the end of the month.
Sorry Shay but this is not under our control yet. Although it soon will be.
Soon come man, as our Jamaican friends say.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[Shay] Re: TC-RTC: Elements of Geology - short time-out [4632 days 8 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Wed, 31 Jul 2013 19:59:53 GMT

What is the last day to upload images?

"Thomas de Groot"  wrote in message news:51bc1919$1@news.povray.org... 

The May/August Stills Challenge: Elements of Geology, remains active 
through the short time-out period June 15th to June 30th. This is due to 
the transitional phase of site rebuilding.

*Wait for uploading images till July 1st.*

*Please note that images already uploaded need unfortunately to be 
uploaded again.*

Do not vote for the images at this stage. It you do, your votes will be 
ignored. Proper voting for the Challenge must wait till August 17th.

At the drawing board!

Stephen & Thomas, TC-RTC Administrators

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Elements of Geology - short time-out [4678 days 21 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Sat, 15 Jun 2013 07:34:49 GMT

The May/August Stills Challenge: Elements of Geology, remains active 
through the short time-out period June 15th to June 30th. This is due to 
the transitional phase of site rebuilding.

*Wait for uploading images till July 1st.*

*Please note that images already uploaded need unfortunately to be 
uploaded again.*

Do not vote for the images at this stage. It you do, your votes will be 
ignored. Proper voting for the Challenge must wait till August 17th.

At the drawing board!

Stephen & Thomas, TC-RTC Administrators

[John Coppens] Re: TC-RTC A new approach for the next Challenge [4683 days 22 hours and 30 minutes ago]

Mon, 10 Jun 2013 06:19:06 GMT

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 09:56:08 +0200
Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:

> Thus, the new upcoming Challenge will run for *four months* (May/August 
> 2013) and its topic will be: *Elements of Geology*.

Well, I finally found some time to comment - not critique, just my .02

- This is a point I've seen mentioned several times, so I won't claim
rights: My attention span is limited, I like challenges but I rarely have
the patience to maintain 'eye contact' more than a week or so. This is
not only a personal defect - rarely a week goes by that an unforeseen
event causes a change in course here. 

- I have presented several images in the past, more to see if I could
get them ready in time or not. I would rather have presented them in the
hope of learning or receiving constructive criticism, but I never had any
of that. Maybe because there is no real 'community' around TCCHEP? After
all the discussion are here on irtc, which (for me) takes an effort to
sit down and read, and not on a dedicated mailing list. (Is there even
mention on TC Chep on how to contact participants on this media?) 
Do new people interested in ray-tracing even know that these News fora
exist? And how to connect to them?

- Taking into account the previous point, I do propose a voting system
for the comment section. I believe constructive comments should be 
awarded...

- I sincerely hope the new system will work better! I have the impression
though that a more continuous contact is necessary to maintain the 
fire burning...

John

[Shay] Enough time? The right idea? [4688 days 11 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Wed, 5 Jun 2013 17:38:55 GMT

Copied from the tc-rtc board. If you wish to add anything to this, please do 
so there if not in both places. Follow-ups /virtually/ set (with your 
cooperation). The whole point of writing this was to encourage 
participation, so I'm putting it here for a wider audience. It was this or a 
long list of topic-interpretation ideas. I decided the list might discourage 
anyone who's idea I'd inadvertently "leaked" before the deadline.

Post __ Begins __ ... Now

As a challenge, I decided to put together all the advice Iâ€™ve given
others 
and to hold myself to every bit of it:

1. Keep in mind that this is a challenge, not a competition.
Donâ€™t believe me? Have a look at the website. Entries are ranked, but
the 
competitive aspect is an _extra_ bit of fun for those who are interested. 
You wonâ€™t have to concern yourself with winning if you take any of my
advice 
below: youâ€™ll all but eliminate your chance for a win.

2. Donâ€™t be afraid to use recycled material.
Iâ€™ve been one of the worst about starting every image from a blank
page and 
Iâ€™m a firm believer that a long process facilitates deep exploration
of a 
theme, but the least stimulating entry is the one thatâ€™s never
uploaded, and 
re-tooling can be a â€œlong processâ€ in itself.

3. Limit yourself to what can be competently executed with the skill, time, 
and equipment you have available.
This doesnâ€™t mean your entry has to be easy or simple. Design a scene
that 
can be conceptually, if not structurally, advanced away from your computer.

4. Feel free to interpret the topic liberally.
The â€œtopic policeâ€ have always and will always be
present in the rtc. Thumb 
your nose at them. Cleverness and sanctimony are NOT the entirety of art. 
Whatâ€™s clever about the Mona Lisa?

5. Objectify your goals in your entry description--maybe.
Your audience can most easily evaluate your results as the fulfillment of 
your intentions. Open communication of those intentions will facilitate 
commenting and dialog. However, if you donâ€™t necessarily want a
verbal 
response (for your own sake or the sake of the tc-rtc), then you might be 
better off ignoring this one. Some will insist that the only genuine way to 
exhibit art is to thrust it, sans explanation or apology, into the universe 
and expect some Newtonian response. Thatâ€™s valid, but has failed thus
far to 
stimulate the tc-rtc.

----------------------------------------
Now, off to discover that perfect losing concept and illustrate it in time 
to write an elaborate description.

-Shay

[Shay] Re: TC-RTC forum [4688 days 11 hours and 23 minutes ago]

Wed, 5 Jun 2013 17:26:00 GMT

I have been able to post, but each post has taken a few tries.

<C-a><C-v> before posting to be safe.

-Shay

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC forum [4688 days 16 hours and 42 minutes ago]

Wed, 5 Jun 2013 12:07:09 GMT

For those of you who are TC-RTC forum members, you may have noticed 
lately that the forum is often unavailable or reporting different kinds 
of errors.

 From what I understand, there have been some server changes in the 
recent past, but also a series of ddos attacks. Those may not be the 
last I guess...

Thomas

[waggy] Re: An End? [4697 days 13 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 May 2013 15:40:01 GMT

Shay wrote:
> Imagine if you painted a picture of a lion and showed it to an audience who
> not only have never seen a lion, but also have never tried painting a
> picture. You might get comments like "that oily, pigmented stuff is cool!"
> or "that's like when I painted my living room, except smaller and with more
> colors."
>
> Not that these comments aren't valid, but the audience is not challenged by
> your accomplishment and you are not challenged by your audience.
>
I think I see what you're getting at. I've never seen a five-legged rock lizard
from Aldebaron Prime, and I have never tried sculpting stone. Yet if I saw such
a sculpture, I would not think that it was like breaking stones for placement in
a garden wall, but more detailed.

Experienced sculptors may be able to comment on the technical execution of the
piece, but I could still consider it as any other artwork. Does it inspire a
narrative, tell a story to me? Does it "work" for its intended purpose? Does it
look like the sculptor even cares about the work, and by implication, the
subject?

[Thomas de Groot] Re: An End? [4697 days 13 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 May 2013 15:14:15 GMT

On 27-5-2013 14:10, Shay wrote:
> "waggy" <hon### [at] handbasketorg> wrote in message
> news:web.519fe53e76c5c07f21be1230@news.povray.org...
>> Shay wrote:
>>> Many members of the POV community have a fascination and familiarity
>>> with
>>> Beginnings. They understand and are able to discuss nascent ideas and
>>> basic
>>> macros. Endings (completed images, Tor-level macros) aren't even fully
>>> appreciated because the path from Beginning to End cannot be seen. To
>>> each his
>>> own, but obviously this short-attention-span focus has a hard time
>>> maintaining a
>>> community.
>>
>> This is a fascinating observation.
>>
>> I had some experience with something like this regarding the f_mandelbulb
>> function I posted several years ago. There was some good discussion about
>> implementation (Beginnings), but almost no feedback from users. For
>> all I know,
>> no one but me has ever used either the SDL include file or the source
>> code
>> patches I posted. Although I have implemented some other weird variations
>> (quaternion and bicomplex versions) for my own amusement, I haven't
>> bothered to
>> post them for the apparent lack of interest. But back to the topic at
>> hand.
>
> That's near what I was getting at, but not exactly.
>
> Imagine if you painted a picture of a lion and showed it to an audience
> who not only have never seen a lion, but also have never tried painting
> a picture. You might get comments like "that oily, pigmented stuff is
> cool!" or "that's like when I painted my living room, except smaller and
> with more colors."
>
> Not that these comments aren't valid, but the audience is not challenged
> by your accomplishment and you are not challenged by your audience.
>
> Of course, when I came to POV-Ray as a beginner so many years ago, I
> judged images by the amount and quality of their photons and
> reflections. I admired most what came most easily. Now I'm weary of that
> comes easily. Now I spend weeks or months on every picture. Now I'm
> confined to the narrowest of cg niches (hand-coded mesh). And this is
> the expected progression of any artist.

Very true indeed. I also am spending more and more time and efforts on 
seemingly trivial details but which - in the end - turn out to be essential.

>
> It's long past time for me to stop completely or become a beginner again.
>
>>
>> Here's why I have never entered any of the ray tracing competitions,
>
> I'll point out that the tc-rtc is not a competition; it's a Ray-Tracing
> CHALLENGE. Also, fractals seem like a good fit for the round.

Exactly! And we shall see if we can smooth down the competition part a 
bit more.

Thomas

[Shay] Re: An End? [4697 days 16 hours and 38 minutes ago]

Mon, 27 May 2013 12:10:35 GMT

"waggy" <hon### [at] handbasketorg> wrote in message 
news:web.519fe53e76c5c07f21be1230@news.povray.org...
> Shay wrote:
>> Many members of the POV community have a fascination and familiarity with
>> Beginnings. They understand and are able to discuss nascent ideas and 
>> basic
>> macros. Endings (completed images, Tor-level macros) aren't even fully
>> appreciated because the path from Beginning to End cannot be seen. To 
>> each his
>> own, but obviously this short-attention-span focus has a hard time 
>> maintaining a
>> community.
>
> This is a fascinating observation.
>
> I had some experience with something like this regarding the f_mandelbulb
> function I posted several years ago. There was some good discussion about
> implementation (Beginnings), but almost no feedback from users. For all I 
> know,
> no one but me has ever used either the SDL include file or the source code
> patches I posted. Although I have implemented some other weird variations
> (quaternion and bicomplex versions) for my own amusement, I haven't 
> bothered to
> post them for the apparent lack of interest. But back to the topic at 
> hand.

That's near what I was getting at, but not exactly.

Imagine if you painted a picture of a lion and showed it to an audience who 
not only have never seen a lion, but also have never tried painting a 
picture. You might get comments like "that oily, pigmented stuff is cool!" 
or "that's like when I painted my living room, except smaller and with more 
colors."

Not that these comments aren't valid, but the audience is not challenged by 
your accomplishment and you are not challenged by your audience.

Of course, when I came to POV-Ray as a beginner so many years ago, I judged 
images by the amount and quality of their photons and reflections. I admired 
most what came most easily. Now I'm weary of that comes easily. Now I spend 
weeks or months on every picture. Now I'm confined to the narrowest of cg 
niches (hand-coded mesh). And this is the expected progression of any 
artist.

It's long past time for me to stop completely or become a beginner again.

>
> Here's why I have never entered any of the ray tracing competitions,

I'll point out that the tc-rtc is not a competition; it's a Ray-Tracing 
CHALLENGE. Also, fractals seem like a good fit for the round.

 -Shay

[MichaelJF] Re: An End? [4698 days 11 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Sun, 26 May 2013 17:20:01 GMT

"waggy" <hon### [at] handbasketorg> wrote:
> Shay wrote:
> [snip]
> > Thomas de Groot wrote:
> > > I guess technical preoccupations overrule the wish to
> > > finish an image...
> >
> > > maybe people are not really
> > > interested any more in producing quality.
> [snip]
> > Many members of the POV community have a fascination and familiarity with
> > Beginnings. They understand and are able to discuss nascent ideas and basic
> > macros. Endings (completed images, Tor-level macros) aren’t even fully
> > appreciated because the path from Beginning to End cannot be seen. To each his
> > own, but obviously this short-attention-span focus has a hard time maintaining a
> > community.
>
> This is a fascinating observation.
>
> I had some experience with something like this regarding the f_mandelbulb
> function I posted several years ago. There was some good discussion about
> implementation (Beginnings), but almost no feedback from users. For all I know,
> no one but me has ever used either the SDL include file or the source code
> patches I posted. Although I have implemented some other weird variations
> (quaternion and bicomplex versions) for my own amusement, I haven't bothered to
> post them for the apparent lack of interest. But back to the topic at hand.
>
> Here's why I have never entered any of the ray tracing competitions, despite
> having used such software since I got my first Amiga, and followed the
> competetions as long as I can remember. First, it takes me at least a week, and
> often longer, to come up with an idea that fits both the topic and what I
> consider my skills, and is something I think I can do in half of the remaining
> time. I am in the habit of doubling my estimatate of how long it will take me to
> finish a programming task, which is why I halve the remaining time available.
> Unfortunately, even this rule of thumb has proven insufficient. Every scene (and
> once or twice animation) I have started for a competition has taken closer to
> five to ten times the effort I originally estimate. But, the fact that I won't
> complete it in time becomes obvious a week or two before the deadline, so I
> abandon the project, often before having something suitable even for posting as
> a work in progress.
>
> Perhaps extending the competition period will help. It's hard to say at this
> point. The current topic has proven to be particularly difficult for me to come
> up with a suitable idea.

Yes, posting code to the pov-b-sf can be a little bit frustrating since you have
no feedback. Only the persons who answer the corresponding newgroups entries can
be recognized, and that are few usually. I have no idea if someone ever
downloaded my rose garden scene (a tunnel, not more) just for an example.
Sometimes I think about establishing an own web-site - than you have a feedback
from your provider about the accesses - but for the moment I think that my
efforts so far didn't justify an own web-presence.

Best regards,
Michael

[Thomas de Groot] Re: An End? [4699 days 21 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Sat, 25 May 2013 07:22:32 GMT

On 25-5-2013 0:10, waggy wrote:
> Shay wrote:
>> Many members of the POV community have a fascination and familiarity with
>> Beginnings. They understand and are able to discuss nascent ideas and basic
>> macros. Endings (completed images, Tor-level macros) aren’t even fully
>> appreciated because the path from Beginning to End cannot be seen. To each his
>> own, but obviously this short-attention-span focus has a hard time maintaining a
>> community.
>
> This is a fascinating observation.
>
> I had some experience with something like this regarding the f_mandelbulb
> function I posted several years ago. There was some good discussion about
> implementation (Beginnings), but almost no feedback from users. For all I know,
> no one but me has ever used either the SDL include file or the source code
> patches I posted. Although I have implemented some other weird variations
> (quaternion and bicomplex versions) for my own amusement, I haven't bothered to
> post them for the apparent lack of interest. But back to the topic at hand.

I wonder if it is lack of interest at all. I am almost sure it isn't. 
The point about users is that available code like yours must then 'fit' 
into a scene a user might build. It is not enough to play around with 
it, as enjoyable that could be otherwise. I have this same experience 
with the code I posted in the past (the cobblestones macro, or the very 
complex isosurface landscape macros). As far as I can tell, I may be the 
only one to use them :-) Inversely, I have a huge pool of code from 
others. Some I use regularly; some, once in a while; some, never. It all 
depends on the project under way.

>
> Here's why I have never entered any of the ray tracing competitions, ,snip> But, the
fact that I won't
> complete it in time becomes obvious a week or two before the deadline, so I
> abandon the project, often before having something suitable even for posting as
> a work in progress.

I can very well understand this indeed.

>
> Perhaps extending the competition period will help. It's hard to say at this
> point. The current topic has proven to be particularly difficult for me to come
> up with a suitable idea.

Well, the current topic runs until mid August, so why not have try? I am 
sure your mandelbulb code could be used for that for instance.

Thomas

[waggy] Re: An End? [4700 days 6 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Fri, 24 May 2013 22:15:00 GMT

Shay wrote:
[snip]
> Thomas de Groot wrote:
> > I guess technical preoccupations overrule the wish to
> > finish an image...
>
> > maybe people are not really
> > interested any more in producing quality.
[snip]
> Many members of the POV community have a fascination and familiarity with
> Beginnings. They understand and are able to discuss nascent ideas and basic
> macros. Endings (completed images, Tor-level macros) aren’t even fully
> appreciated because the path from Beginning to End cannot be seen. To each his
> own, but obviously this short-attention-span focus has a hard time maintaining a
> community.

This is a fascinating observation.

I had some experience with something like this regarding the f_mandelbulb
function I posted several years ago. There was some good discussion about
implementation (Beginnings), but almost no feedback from users. For all I know,
no one but me has ever used either the SDL include file or the source code
patches I posted. Although I have implemented some other weird variations
(quaternion and bicomplex versions) for my own amusement, I haven't bothered to
post them for the apparent lack of interest. But back to the topic at hand.

Here's why I have never entered any of the ray tracing competitions, despite
having used such software since I got my first Amiga, and followed the
competetions as long as I can remember. First, it takes me at least a week, and
often longer, to come up with an idea that fits both the topic and what I
consider my skills, and is something I think I can do in half of the remaining
time. I am in the habit of doubling my estimatate of how long it will take me to
finish a programming task, which is why I halve the remaining time available.
Unfortunately, even this rule of thumb has proven insufficient. Every scene (and
once or twice animation) I have started for a competition has taken closer to
five to ten times the effort I originally estimate. But, the fact that I won't
complete it in time becomes obvious a week or two before the deadline, so I
abandon the project, often before having something suitable even for posting as
a work in progress.

Perhaps extending the competition period will help. It's hard to say at this
point. The current topic has proven to be particularly difficult for me to come
up with a suitable idea.

[Stephen] TC-RTC Iechyd da! [4701 days 17 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Thu, 23 May 2013 11:39:18 GMT

Pronounced Yaki da! it is Welsh for cheers/good health. And the 
developer of TC-RTC is of that tribe.
I spoke to him on the phone yesterday and he gave an undertaking to 
start working on the TC-RTC site shortly. We discussed some pressing 
changes that are required and he has agreed to implement these very soon.
We will have another section to run “Stills Challenges” so we can have 
two concurrent Challenges and control the start and end dates of both of 
them, independently.
We will be able to use our own topics not the list of books that we are 
currently limited to. Voting for topics may be kept but will be by the 
discretion of the Admins.
Additionally I asked if we could vote for the entries en masse rather 
than one at a time. (That limitation has always annoyed me.)

In addition he said that he would be willing to continue maintenance if 
we could have a base of about twelve regular entrants. By that I assume 
he would be willing to implement other changes such as uploading text or 
zip files to share scenes and or tweaking the site.
Incidentally he mentioned that members already have a public area where 
their work can be shown. (Sorry Thomas I forgot to mention that to you.) 
It just not been communicated.

This seems to cover most of the points/suggestions raised in our 
discussions here. With the exception of comments which is up to the 
community.

I am particularly excited by having the chance to run two Challenges and 
Trevor’s idea of running one to improve technique sings, to my ears.

So when this happens Thomas and I will do some testing and get things 
rolling. I expect that there will be a period of experimenting to get 
the site the way we want it. And of course we welcome feedback and comments.


-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC Forum: Want to become a member? Read ... [4702 days 21 hours and 33 minutes ago]

Wed, 22 May 2013 07:16:29 GMT

On 21-5-2013 16:16, Shay wrote:
> I tried to register ==> User name and email are already in use. It seems I have
> lost another password. Are you able to find this one for me as well? Thank you
> for the help.

If you tried to register a second time at the forum, then that is normal 
I think.

You only can use the forum from the moment I activate your account 
(which is done now). Formerly, new members could activate the account 
themselves but as the spam bots are very active this has been 
discontinued and activation has to go through me.

Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC Forum: Want to become a member? Read ... [4702 days 21 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Wed, 22 May 2013 07:12:00 GMT

On 21-5-2013 16:08, Shay wrote:
> I am submitting an application for Shay now.

I have now activated your Shay account at the forum. You should be able 
to login, using the password you submitted. If any problem, just yell :-)

Thomas

[Trevor G Quayle] Re: An End? [4703 days 11 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Tue, 21 May 2013 17:10:01 GMT

The problem with a few of these items is that it is seen a 'competition':

This can possibly lead to a few things:
1. No sharing WIP, as other could take their ideas
2. Fewer comments, just mark and move on...
3. Poor attendance, as many may feel that they can't compete
4. Some seemingly lackluster entries, made just to get an entry in. (I want to
be careful here to distinguish between lackluster, and new-user vs advanced
user.)
5. There will be only 1 winner, and a few runners up or honourable mentions.
(which in turn leads to many of the above)


Presenting as a 'challenge' instead could be more engaging to users:
1. WIP is more vital to the development of the process"  (How am I doing? What's
missing. What working not/working.)
2. Helps lead to further development of user skills: they can learn by trying
and advice
3. Lead to development of the software: Users can learn to push the limits or
look where things can be added or improved in the software itself
4. Users may be more inclined to take part as they can get feedback and develop
and not feel pressured about being 'up against' the advanced users.

This is generally in the spirit of how P.B.I. works, but with a little more
focus and direction with periodic specific challenges.

I also see the "3D Render Lighting Challenge" as a bit of this model, as this is
how it has worked.  Also (previously, as it seems the initial moderator seems to
have moved away from it) there were many 'winners', a hall-of-fame type gallery
was put up of several chosen completed images.

Also when preseting a challenge, particular challenges can be keyed top certain
skills.  EG, the Lighting Challenge I mention primarily deals with a
pre-selected scene, which you are then responsible for lighting, so it tends to
help hone the users' lighting skills (though texturing can be just as important
for lighting).

Different challenge types can focus on or help towards certain areas: e.g.
lighting, texturing, modeling (CSG or mesh), scene building and framing, plus
many other that can help users develop skills in different manners.

Another similar example, is on some FLICKR groups a monthly challenge is set up,
where the previous months winner choses a theme for the next challenge.  The
theme is quite often very different in what will fit in the topic from specific
("Architecture" "Landscape" "Birds") to more general or abstract ("Purple"
"Winter") to different camera or composition  skills ("Low Light" "Low Angle"
"Square Format")


These are all just spit-ball ideas but hopefully help in putting something
together that can work.

-tgq

[Shay] Re: TC-RTC Forum: Want to become a member? Read ... [4703 days 14 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Tue, 21 May 2013 14:20:01 GMT

I tried to register ==> User name and email are already in use. It seems I have
lost another password. Are you able to find this one for me as well? Thank you
for the help.

[Shay] Re: TC-RTC Forum: Want to become a member? Read ... [4703 days 14 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Tue, 21 May 2013 14:10:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:

I am submitting an application for Shay now.

[Shay] Re: An End? [4703 days 15 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Tue, 21 May 2013 13:00:01 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:

> BTW, after controlling, the password you used for your new membership
> seems to be the same as for the username Shay. Could you please confirm
> or infirm this?

Confirmed!  I tried the forums and got a “flood control” message, so
I’m not
sure if I’m able to post there, but I am able to access the site as a member.
Thank you.

> As far as p.b.i. is concerned, there still is a fair amount of active
> commenting from the remaining community.

Absolutely. P.b.i is a special place. I should find the time to drop in more
often.

> I guess technical preoccupations overrule the wish to
> finish an image...

> maybe people are not really
> interested any more in producing quality.

No one expects any kind of follow-through. I read last year that communicating
New Year’s resolutions is *so* satisfying that those who do communicate their
resolutions are *less* likely to pursue the satisfaction of completing those
resolutions. “Gonna’s” are a plague. I’d say 80% of conversation I
hear is about
what people are “gonna” do, not about what they have done or are doing.

And we allow that crap. I went to my 20-year High School reunion last year. A
girl from school with a typical-middle-aged, flabby build announced to the group
that she was a health nut, despite plain evidence to the contrary. Unbelievably,
people were asking her for diet advice on facebook for weeks after the reunion.
Apparently, you’ve just got to name it to claim it.

Many members of the POV community have a fascination and familiarity with
Beginnings. They understand and are able to discuss nascent ideas and basic
macros. Endings (completed images, Tor-level macros) aren’t even fully
appreciated because the path from Beginning to End cannot be seen. To each his
own, but obviously this short-attention-span focus has a hard time maintaining a
community.

> Not sure I follow you here. What are the bad copies of professional work
> exactly?

I didn’t phrase that one well. I gave a better explanation in an answer to
Stephen.

>  From the beginning, there has been grumbling about the book titles,
> many people feeling surprisingly unsure about how to interpret them. I
> don't think that Stephen and I will really abandon the titles concept
> but adapt it to a different (wider?) scope.

Maybe people just need a tiny push. When I saw “Elements of Geology,” I
thought
only of rocks, but, looking at the book-chapter titles, I found many fascinating
*verbs* that could each be subjects themselves. Irtc topics always included a
few sentences of suggestions.

> > 5. Filter out narrow topics like “sphinx.”

> Hmm. Not so narrow for some people :-)

I don’t think it’s a topic that encourages much exploration or discussion,
but I
make *no* claims of objectivity.

-Shay

[Shay] Re: An End? [4703 days 16 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Tue, 21 May 2013 12:20:03 GMT

Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:

> I have sent you an individual newsletter asking you to get in touch with
> me so that I can reset your password and give you a new one.

That problem has been solved. Thank you very much. I should have asked here
years ago.

> > 2. Give more constructive feedback to all of the entries. Encourage people
>> to “tighten up” their images.

> I wish that I could force people to do that.

I think long topic descriptions might at least encourage commenters. It’s easier
to objectively judge an entry when the entrant’s goals have been clearly
communicated. But, yeah, people just aren’t that motivated to discuss these
days. Maybe one image in ten on cg talk receives any comment at all.

> > 3. Encourage everyone to back off the bad copies of professional work and
> > explore still life, abstract, surrealism, architecture and other genres more
> > suited to the tools we’re using.

> I don't agree with that. Just look at Thomas's entry for "History and
> Practice of the Art of Photography" March 2011
> http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/member/imagenewdisplay/index325.html

That’s a fair and literal interpretation of what I said, but it’s not what I
/meant/ to say. What I /meant/ to say is that people should dial back the
ambition and establish a more irtc-like metric for judging images. Some simple
images won the irtc, but every winner, iirc, was print-ready. I assume that the
tc-rtc would get better “press” with objectively attractive winners to show
off
and that entrants would be encouraged by their objective success.

> One of the big problems that we have is that we now have no control over
> the site development. It is frozen the way it is. :-(
>
> But as we speak Thomas and I are discussing an alternative.

Yes, the sight is a little clunky. Even though I can see images without logging
in, I couldn’t follow your link to Thomas’s entry without logging in. The
“logged out” link to that image is different:
http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/imagenewdisplay/stills/index325.html

 -Shay

[Thomas de Groot] Re: An End? [4703 days 20 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Tue, 21 May 2013 08:07:33 GMT

Thanks a lot Shay, for your detailed comments. I certainly can speak for 
Stephen too.

On 20-5-2013 17:08, Shay wrote:
> I entered the “Before and After” warm-up round and commented on one or two
> rounds after that, but have not participated since. If it helps, here are the
> reasons why:
>
> 1. I’ve tried several times over the years to retrieve my lost password (unless
> my account was lost altogether) for the user name Shay. Yes, I can get a new
> account with another name, but I would prefer my old account associated with my
> original entry and comments. The “contact us” link seems to be a dead end.
I
> would certainly have commented, if not entered a time or two, if my account had
> been accessible.

You confirm here what I was beginning to suspect. The "contact us"link 
seems indeed dead. I tried it myself yesterday and to date, as one of 
the team, I still have not received it.

This is becoming a serious worry. Colin (the technical owner of the 
site) is not responding to our (Stephen, me) mails, and either the 
mentioned link goes exclusively to him and he automatically drops it or 
something else is happening.

BTW, after controlling,the password you used for your new membership 
seems to be the same as for the username Shay. Could you please confirm 
or infirm this?

>
> 2. Small audience. Producing something for a small audience of like-minded
> artists is one thing, but there don’t seem to be any there who share my
> interests. Not a “problem” with the competition, but I’m listing it
here as
> feedback.

With the policy of not using the book titles, or in a derived form, we 
surely can do something about that ;-)

>
> 3. Speaking of, there’s no feedback. P.B.Images has slowed down a lot since I
> was a regular several years ago, but I’m impressed at the percentage of
> participants who take the time to comment on the images posted there. I’ve
> “heard” many entrants say that comments were “the most important
part” of the
> irtc. This lack of comments may be a “sign of the times”: there’s a
glut of
> media to look at. Consideration of any one item is almost unwarranted.

As far as p.b.i. is concerned, there still is a fair amount of active 
commenting from the remaining community.

At the TC-RTC, commenting on uploaded images is very poor indeed and I 
frankly do not know how to improve incentives to do this. I confess that 
I do not comment enough myself in that respect...

>
> 4. Perhaps another “sign of the times”: people don’t seem to finish
images
> anymore. This is apparent in P.B.I. I think a lot of people don’t even know
> /how/ to finish an image. Many of the interminable WIPs I see are modeled with
> techniques that will grind progress to a near-halt long before an image can be
> completed.

Absolutely true. I guess technical preoccupations overrule the wish to 
finish an image...

>
> 5. The quality on a lot of the images is terrible. This might be related to the
> slow death of the POV-Ray newsgroups, but things that used to be a matter of
> course (decent sky, metal textures, radiosity) are missing from many of the
> pictures. Iirc, while working on “Wet Bird,” Gilles Tran went to the
newsgroups
> and asked for some decent rad settings. It’s as simple as cut and paste.
It’s
> like people aren’t even interested in quality anymore. In my opinion, first and
> foremost, your image should convey that you give a shit.

Absolutely true. Again, I guess that technical preoccupations overrule. 
While I recognize myself in point 4, I certainly do not where point 5 is 
concerned :-) Over the years, I have acquired a huge collection of 
pieces of code, tips, tricks and what not, which I constantly use in one 
scene or another I am working on, and gleaned from the POV-Ray 
newsgroups. I think this is an essential procedure for anyone here. 
Maybe that is not done so much any more or maybe people are not really 
interested any more in producing quality.

>
> ******** Suggestions:
>
> 1. Try to engage what’s left of the POV-Ray newsgroups. Maybe post in p.o-t and
> ask for comments after the next round. Not the “woman” round, as it would
be
> difficult to comment on so many pictures of “sexy” Poser models, and many
of the
> entries probably shouldn’t be opened at work.

The p.o-t is a good suggestion indeed.

>
> 2. Give more constructive feedback to all of the entries. Encourage people to
> “tighten up” their images.

Indeed. Again I am thinking about making commenting an obligation when 
voting... However, that would also need some "action" from Colin  :-(

>
> 3. Encourage everyone to back off the bad copies of professional work and
> explore still life, abstract, surrealism, architecture and other genres more
> suited to the tools we’re using.

Not sure I follow you here. What are the bad copies of professional work 
exactly?

>
> 4. Go back to the book titles.  The tc-rtc survives, if barely. The irtc does
> not. As we say in Texas, “dance with them what brung you.”

 From the beginning, there has been grumbling about the book titles, 
many people feeling surprisingly unsure about how to interpret them. I 
don't think that Stephen and I will really abandon the titles concept 
but adapt it to a different (wider?) scope.

>
> 5. Filter out narrow topics like “sphinx.”

Hmm. Not so narrow for some people :-)

>
> 6. Post actual WIPs (emphasis on the P) in P.B.I to encourage anyone there to
> come take a look at the tc-rtc.

Personally, I am a bit reluctant about this although I understand the 
idea. While working for the TC-RTC I want it to be entirely my own work, 
without suggestions during progress which might influence the outcome. 
However, I might consider posting the finished scene to p.b.i. and get 
the comments afterwards...

>
> 7. Find my password.

I did. See point 1.

Thomas

[Stephen] Re: An End? [4703 days 20 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Tue, 21 May 2013 07:49:34 GMT

On 20/05/2013 4:08 PM, Shay wrote:
>
> I entered the “Before and After” warm-up round and commented on one or two
> rounds after that, but have not participated since. If it helps, here are the
> reasons why:
>
> 1. I’ve tried several times over the years to retrieve my lost password (unless
> my account was lost altogether) for the user name Shay. Yes, I can get a new
> account with another name, but I would prefer my old account associated with my
> original entry and comments.

I have sent you an individual newsletter asking you to get in touch with 
me so that I can reset your password and give you a new one.

> The “contact us” link seems to be a dead end. I
> would certainly have commented, if not entered a time or two, if my account had
> been accessible.
>
You are right. Neither Thomas nor I get the "contact us" mails.

> 2. Small audience. Producing something for a small audience of like-minded
> artists is one thing, but there don’t seem to be any there who share my
> interests. Not a “problem” with the competition, but I’m listing it
here as
> feedback.
>

Me too. No one likes what I do but do I care? ;-)

> 3. Speaking of, there’s no feedback. P.B.Images has slowed down a lot since I
> was a regular several years ago, but I’m impressed at the percentage of
> participants who take the time to comment on the images posted there. I’ve
> “heard” many entrants say that comments were “the most important
part” of the
> irtc. This lack of comments may be a “sign of the times”: there’s a
glut of
> media to look at. Consideration of any one item is almost unwarranted.
>

This is very true and I've given up commenting on the TC-RTC myself.

> 4. Perhaps another “sign of the times”: people don’t seem to finish
images
> anymore. This is apparent in P.B.I. I think a lot of people don’t even know
> /how/ to finish an image.

You might be talking about me. :-)

> Many of the interminable WIPs I see are modeled with
> techniques that will grind progress to a near-halt long before an image can be
> completed.
>


> 5. The quality on a lot of the images is terrible. This might be related to the
> slow death of the POV-Ray newsgroups, but things that used to be a matter of
> course (decent sky, metal textures, radiosity) are missing from many of the
> pictures. Iirc, while working on “Wet Bird,” Gilles Tran went to the
newsgroups
> and asked for some decent rad settings. It’s as simple as cut and paste.
It’s
> like people aren’t even interested in quality anymore. In my opinion, first and
> foremost, your image should convey that you give a shit.
>
> ******** Suggestions:
>
> 1. Try to engage what’s left of the POV-Ray newsgroups. Maybe post in p.o-t and
> ask for comments after the next round. Not the “woman” round, as it would
be
> difficult to comment on so many pictures of “sexy” Poser models, and many
of the
> entries probably shouldn’t be opened at work.
>

I feel that a lot of people do not like to post WIPs for a competition 
in case their ideas are stolen or they "claim" the subject.
As for "not suitable at work" that should not be a problem unless you 
live in the bible belt. We do not want porn but we are adults and IMO 
sexy is not the same as dirty.

> 2. Give more constructive feedback to all of the entries. Encourage people to
> “tighten up” their images.
>

I wish that I could force people to do that.

> 3. Encourage everyone to back off the bad copies of professional work and
> explore still life, abstract, surrealism, architecture and other genres more
> suited to the tools we’re using.
>

Ooo! Caty. ;-)

I don't agree with that. Just look at Thomas's entry for "History and 
Practice of the Art of Photography" March 2011
http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/member/imagenewdisplay/index325.html

Anyway I would rather have someone's genuine attempt at reproducing art, 
badly, than no entries.

> 4. Go back to the book titles.  The tc-rtc survives, if barely. The irtc does
> not. As we say in Texas, “dance with them what brung you.”

Under discussion. Please join in.
>
> 5. Filter out narrow topics like “sphinx.”
>
> 6. Post actual WIPs (emphasis on the P) in P.B.I to encourage anyone there to
> come take a look at the tc-rtc.
>
> 7. Find my password.

Phew! At least I can do the last one.

Your comments and suggestions are good.
One of the big problems that we have is that we now have no control over 
the site development. It is frozen the way it is. :-(

But as we speak Thomas and I are discussing an alternative.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[Shay] Re: An End? [4704 days 13 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Mon, 20 May 2013 15:10:00 GMT

"MichaelJF" <mi-### [at] t-onlinede> wrote:
> I think the time of ray tracing contests is gone now. <snip>
> I propose that this is the last round of the TINA CheP
> contest.

I entered the “Before and After” warm-up round and commented on one or two
rounds after that, but have not participated since. If it helps, here are the
reasons why:

1. I’ve tried several times over the years to retrieve my lost password (unless
my account was lost altogether) for the user name Shay. Yes, I can get a new
account with another name, but I would prefer my old account associated with my
original entry and comments. The “contact us” link seems to be a dead end. I
would certainly have commented, if not entered a time or two, if my account had
been accessible.

2. Small audience. Producing something for a small audience of like-minded
artists is one thing, but there don’t seem to be any there who share my
interests. Not a “problem” with the competition, but I’m listing it
here as
feedback.

3. Speaking of, there’s no feedback. P.B.Images has slowed down a lot since I
was a regular several years ago, but I’m impressed at the percentage of
participants who take the time to comment on the images posted there. I’ve
“heard” many entrants say that comments were “the most important
part” of the
irtc. This lack of comments may be a “sign of the times”: there’s a
glut of
media to look at. Consideration of any one item is almost unwarranted.

4. Perhaps another “sign of the times”: people don’t seem to finish
images
anymore. This is apparent in P.B.I. I think a lot of people don’t even know
/how/ to finish an image. Many of the interminable WIPs I see are modeled with
techniques that will grind progress to a near-halt long before an image can be
completed.

5. The quality on a lot of the images is terrible. This might be related to the
slow death of the POV-Ray newsgroups, but things that used to be a matter of
course (decent sky, metal textures, radiosity) are missing from many of the
pictures. Iirc, while working on “Wet Bird,” Gilles Tran went to the
newsgroups
and asked for some decent rad settings. It’s as simple as cut and paste.
It’s
like people aren’t even interested in quality anymore. In my opinion, first and
foremost, your image should convey that you give a shit.

******** Suggestions:

1. Try to engage what’s left of the POV-Ray newsgroups. Maybe post in p.o-t and
ask for comments after the next round. Not the “woman” round, as it would be
difficult to comment on so many pictures of “sexy” Poser models, and many of
the
entries probably shouldn’t be opened at work.

2. Give more constructive feedback to all of the entries. Encourage people to
“tighten up” their images.

3. Encourage everyone to back off the bad copies of professional work and
explore still life, abstract, surrealism, architecture and other genres more
suited to the tools we’re using.

4. Go back to the book titles.  The tc-rtc survives, if barely. The irtc does
not. As we say in Texas, “dance with them what brung you.”

5. Filter out narrow topics like “sphinx.”

6. Post actual WIPs (emphasis on the P) in P.B.I to encourage anyone there to
come take a look at the tc-rtc.

7. Find my password.

 -Shay

[Paolo Gibellini] Re: We have a cunning plan. [4718 days 13 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 May 2013 15:12:11 GMT

>David Buck  on date 06/05/2013 2.51 wrote:
> If you want, I can resurrect the data for the most recent IRTC run and
> provide titles, descriptions, authors, comments and links to images for
> all the entries in all the contests. With a small amount of effort I can
> export it in XML format.
>
> David Buck
Thank you, David!
As said, I think that IRTC & TC-RTC's history is valuable for people 
interested into raytracing.
At the moment I'm very busy in real life, but this summer I wish I could 
explore the capabilities of Wordpress (or something similar) and ask for 
pov-users opinions.
A dump of latest IRTC entries will be surely useful.
;-)
Paolo

[David Buck] Re: We have a cunning plan. [4719 days 3 hours and 57 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 May 2013 00:51:37 GMT

Paolo Gibellini wrote:
>  >Christian Froeschlin  on date 26/03/2013 14.28 wrote:
>> actually there even seems to be a contest plugin although
>> it has not been maintained in a while
>>
>> http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wp-photocontest/
>>
> It could be a starting point.
> It seems that the major difficult to maintain irtc (old and new) and 
> tc-rtc sites is in the lack of time of the members of the POV-community.
> I like custom solution, but without time to develop them I'd prefer to 
> use a mature existing system (like WordPress and the plugin you suggest).
> ;-)
> Paolo
> 

If you want, I can resurrect the data for the most recent IRTC run and 
provide titles, descriptions, authors, comments and links to images for 
all the entries in all the contests. With a small amount of effort I can 
export it in XML format.

David Buck

[Samuel Benge] Re: TC-RTC A new approach for the next Challenge [4736 days 6 hours and 54 minutes ago]

Thu, 18 Apr 2013 21:55:02 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 17-4-2013 19:21, Samuel Benge wrote:
> > I'm almost led to believe that you were specifically trying to get my attention
> > with this one :)
>
> We *always* have you in mind, Sam ;-)

And I'm always around, Thomas, so truth be told I can same the same ;)

> > Nice broad phrasing, too; there's a lot of room for
> > interpreting the theme... I might actually get something going this time around,
> > no promises though ;)
>
> That would be fantastic.

The biggest challenge right now is coming up with an idea... what elements to
portray? and in what literal or metaphorical sense? I've posted some gravel
renderings to the TINA CHeP forums as a start:
http://tinachepforum.forumup.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=236&mforum=tinachepforum The
system might make it into a final rendering, or it might not :)

Sam

[Paolo Gibellini] Re: TC-RTC A new approach for the next Challenge [4736 days 16 hours and 58 minutes ago]

Thu, 18 Apr 2013 11:51:01 GMT

>Thomas de Groot  on date 17/04/2013 9.56 wrote:
> Thus, the new upcoming Challenge will run for *four months* (May/August
> 2013) and its topic will be: *Elements of Geology*.
August... let's get a try,
;-)
Paolo

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC A new approach for the next Challenge [4736 days 22 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Thu, 18 Apr 2013 06:38:32 GMT

On 17-4-2013 19:21, Samuel Benge wrote:
> I'm almost led to believe that you were specifically trying to get my attention
> with this one :)

We *always* have you in mind, Sam ;-)

> Nice broad phrasing, too; there's a lot of room for
> interpreting the theme... I might actually get something going this time around,
> no promises though ;)

That would be fantastic.

Thomas

[Samuel Benge] Re: TC-RTC A new approach for the next Challenge [4737 days 11 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Apr 2013 17:25:01 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Thus, the new upcoming Challenge will run for *four months* (May/August
> 2013) and its topic will be: *Elements of Geology*.

I'm almost led to believe that you were specifically trying to get my attention
with this one :) Nice broad phrasing, too; there's a lot of room for
interpreting the theme... I might actually get something going this time around,
no promises though ;)

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC A new approach for the next Challenge [4737 days 20 hours and 53 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Apr 2013 07:56:13 GMT

The March/April 2013 Stills Challenge: *Woman*, has ended.

See http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/display/index.html

TC-RTC members are all kindly invited to vote for the uploaded images. 
As usual, they can do this till the end of the current month. Do not 
forget to vote for all the images if you want your votes to be valid!

The Stills Challenges will continue in a new form from now on. Instead 
of the fixed two months intervals, we shall propose variable length 
challenges, possibly two at the same time. Details about this will 
follow later.

Also from now on, the new Challenge topics will be proposed by us, 
instead of members voting from a list. We shall also drop the book 
titles list although we may draw inspiration from it. For the new 
Challenge, we shall use the member votes for the last time.

Thus, the new upcoming Challenge will run for *four months* (May/August 
2013) and its topic will be: *Elements of Geology*.

With a longer Challenge length we not only hope to draw more 
participation. We also want to provide time to participants for even 
higher quality images, artistically and technically. We challenge you to 
go beyond what you thought were your own limits!

We hope you will enjoy these new approaches.


At the drawing board!

Stephen & Thomas, TC-RTC Administrators

[Paolo Gibellini] Re: We have a cunning plan. [4758 days 18 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Wed, 27 Mar 2013 09:58:17 GMT

>Christian Froeschlin  on date 26/03/2013 14.28 wrote:
> actually there even seems to be a contest plugin although
> it has not been maintained in a while
>
> http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wp-photocontest/
>
It could be a starting point.
It seems that the major difficult to maintain irtc (old and new) and 
tc-rtc sites is in the lack of time of the members of the POV-community.
I like custom solution, but without time to develop them I'd prefer to 
use a mature existing system (like WordPress and the plugin you suggest).
;-)
Paolo

[Thomas de Groot] Re: We have a cunning plan. [4758 days 20 hours and 23 minutes ago]

Wed, 27 Mar 2013 08:26:11 GMT

On 26-3-2013 21:20, MichaelJF wrote:
> Sorry, was knocked out by the flu some days...

Nasty thing. Hope you are better now.

>
> Most of the IRTC data are still available only the second period is lost. All
> entries from the beginning till the hiatus 2006 are still available (ftp-link at
> www.irtc.org).

I stand corrected. I overlooked the ftp link. Typical blindness hiding 
lines below the ones I am looking at in the first place ;-)

Thomas

[Stephen] Re: We have a cunning plan. [4759 days 6 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Tue, 26 Mar 2013 21:53:02 GMT

On 26/03/2013 8:20 PM, MichaelJF wrote:
>> >I also thought that if we can talk the developer into converting the
>> >animation section into another stills one. We could run two concurrent
>> >challenges with different run times.
>> >
> This may prove a problem since he even forgot the invoices you told.


No, I don't think so. It is quite a small amount.

Glad, your over your flu. I had it at the beginning of the year, not nice.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[MichaelJF] Re: We have a cunning plan. [4759 days 8 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Tue, 26 Mar 2013 20:25:01 GMT

Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> On 25/03/2013 8:24 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> >>
> >> BTW: Do you have access to the data generated by the contests?
> >> It sounds like the site is very much hanging on the goodwill of
> >> an unknown entity and it would be too bad if all the images
> >> will be lost at some point in the future without backup.
> >
> > Not sure. The data may disappear, but so did most of the IRTC data, or
> > am I wrong there? That data seems to be only partially available nowadays.
>
> To add to Thomas's answer. All members can access all images through the
> Archives. But I have know idea if anyone has actually downloaded them. A
> big job doing then one at a time.

Sorry, was knocked out by the flu some days...

What should I say to this. Yes, I'm guilty, I've have done it (not one at a
time), but only the images and the animations themselves (storing the authors
and main statistics as well) but not the comments by the authors or the voters.
But I'm working on it...

Most of the IRTC data are still available only the second period is lost. All
entries from the beginning till the hiatus 2006 are still available (ftp-link at
www.irtc.org).

>
> I also thought that if we can talk the developer into converting the
> animation section into another stills one. We could run two concurrent
> challenges with different run times.
>
This may prove a problem since he even forgot the invoices you told.

Best regards,
Michael

[Christian Froeschlin] Re: We have a cunning plan. [4759 days 15 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Tue, 26 Mar 2013 13:28:07 GMT

Christian Froeschlin wrote:

actually there even seems to be a contest plugin although
it has not been maintained in a while

http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wp-photocontest/

[Christian Froeschlin] Re: We have a cunning plan. [4759 days 15 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Tue, 26 Mar 2013 13:18:26 GMT

Paolo Gibellini wrote:

> I think that the most of the data could be retrieved from personal 
> copies of the users. My current thinking is that we should look to rely 
> on some existing platform adapting it to *rtc needs.

I was just looking at wordpress and gallery plugins because I
consider adding a blog to my webpage, and out of the box it would
seem to be possible to simply create an "album" for a specific
topic or contest, and all registered users can upload images,
comment on other images and rate them on a 1-5 star system.
(this was the "wordpress photo album plus" plugin).

Of course there is no automatic system to limit the dates of
a contest or determine winners.

[Paolo Gibellini] Re: We have a cunning plan. [4759 days 18 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Tue, 26 Mar 2013 10:29:20 GMT

>Christian Froeschlin  on date 24/03/2013 20.30 wrote:
> I think a good mix would be
>
> 1 week   - doodle topic for people with commitment phobia
> 2 months - room for traditonalists
> 6 month  - diligent scene builders with availability issues
This could be an interesting base to think about

> BTW: Do you have access to the data generated by the contests?
> It sounds like the site is very much hanging on the goodwill of
> an unknown entity and it would be too bad if all the images
> will be lost at some point in the future without backup.
I think that the most of the data could be retrieved from personal 
copies of the users. My current thinking is that we should look to rely 
on some existing platform adapting it to *rtc needs.

Paolo

[Stephen] Re: We have a cunning plan. [4760 days 19 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Mon, 25 Mar 2013 09:08:21 GMT

On 25/03/2013 8:24 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>
>> BTW: Do you have access to the data generated by the contests?
>> It sounds like the site is very much hanging on the goodwill of
>> an unknown entity and it would be too bad if all the images
>> will be lost at some point in the future without backup.
>
> Not sure. The data may disappear, but so did most of the IRTC data, or
> am I wrong there? That data seems to be only partially available nowadays.

To add to Thomas's answer. All members can access all images through the 
Archives. But I have know idea if anyone has actually downloaded them. A 
big job doing then one at a time.

I also thought that if we can talk the developer into converting the 
animation section into another stills one. We could run two concurrent 
challenges with different run times.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: We have a cunning plan. [4760 days 20 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Mon, 25 Mar 2013 08:24:38 GMT

On 24-3-2013 20:30, Christian Froeschlin wrote:
> Stephen wrote:
>
>> As always, your comments are appreciated.
>
> I think a good mix would be
>
> 1 week   - doodle topic for people with commitment phobia
> 2 months - room for traditonalists
> 6 month  - diligent scene builders with availability issues

The problem with 1 week is the "fixed" return period of 2 months for 
each challenge. Assuming that we cannot make significant changes to the 
site building, this would pose a problem.

6 months, imho, seems a bit too long. I am afraid people will forget 
about it before the challenge is ended, rushing in during the last two 
weeks to finish a scene started six months before but forgotten in 
between. Personally, I would suggest 4 months as the longest challenge.

>
> I'm not quite sure how you intend to handle submissions with
> multiple contests. I reckon the submission periods should not
> overlap either? Depending on the constraints a 6 month pattern
> could fit multiple shorter contests.

This is a problem I thought of waking up suddenly this night. ;-) Not 
sure how to solve that elegantly presently indeed.

>
> BTW: Do you have access to the data generated by the contests?
> It sounds like the site is very much hanging on the goodwill of
> an unknown entity and it would be too bad if all the images
> will be lost at some point in the future without backup.

Not sure. The data may disappear, but so did most of the IRTC data, or 
am I wrong there? That data seems to be only partially available nowadays.

Thomas

[Christian Froeschlin] Re: We have a cunning plan. [4761 days 9 hours and 18 minutes ago]

Sun, 24 Mar 2013 19:30:42 GMT

Stephen wrote:

> As always, your comments are appreciated.

I think a good mix would be

1 week   - doodle topic for people with commitment phobia
2 months - room for traditonalists
6 month  - diligent scene builders with availability issues

I'm not quite sure how you intend to handle submissions with
multiple contests. I reckon the submission periods should not
overlap either? Depending on the constraints a 6 month pattern
could fit multiple shorter contests.

BTW: Do you have access to the data generated by the contests?
It sounds like the site is very much hanging on the goodwill of
an unknown entity and it would be too bad if all the images
will be lost at some point in the future without backup.

[Stephen] We have a cunning plan. [4761 days 14 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Sun, 24 Mar 2013 14:24:40 GMT

The biggest obstacle to changing the structure of the “Challenge” is the 
unavailability of the developer. We think that we have a work-around 
which will not require any work in his part, as we do have some control 
over the front page.
	
I propose that we abandon voting for a topic and the topic will be 
selected by the admins. We will also decide how long the “Challenge will 
run for. We could for instance start 2-month, 4-month and 6-month 
challenges, and repeat that pattern at the end of the 6 months. We can 
change the pattern randomly or make shorter or longer challenges. As 
long as voting does not coincide for the challenges it will work.

As always, your comments are appreciated.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: An End? [4767 days 19 hours and 23 minutes ago]

Mon, 18 Mar 2013 09:25:38 GMT

On 18-3-2013 10:03, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> sub 7) Sure. However, the TC-RTC forum should be used for that. There is
> the problem of the spam users (still) queuing up at the gate and I have
> closed new admissions indefinitely, asking new members to contact the
> admins if they want to also participate in the forum. To date, I have
> /never/ seen any request from any member through that way. In addition,
> to us Povers, the TC-RTC forum is a bit redundant of course, as we
> communicate easily here.

Interestingly, access to the forum is closed at this moment.

[quote]
anti hacker flood system, please wait some seconds and reload. sorry errn#90
please report on staff forum for investigation:
[/quote]

My impression is that for years, the forumup.co.uk site has serious 
problems with their protection...

Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: An End? [4767 days 19 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Mon, 18 Mar 2013 09:03:25 GMT

Time maybe to give some kind of summary up of the comments so far, and 
to give a personal view on the matter. I shall try to play the role of 
the devil's advocate ;-)

So far, comments boil down to the following aspects (not in any 
particular order):

1) The existence of any kind of competition/challenge like the defunct 
IRTC or the present TC-RTC is valuable for stimulating creativity and 
increasing POV skills. Other sites mentioned, not specifically 
POV-related, are CGSphere and 3DRender.

2) Although participation is not strong and rather variable, most 
commentators would be sad to see TC-RTC go.

3) It is felt that either the return time of challenges per year 
(bi-monthly) should be longer (three-, four-, six-monthly) or that 
deathlines should be extended/more overlapping, or a combination of both.

4) Alternatively (or in addition) short contests (weekly?) could be 
considered to address specific topics.

5) In case of (3) more reminders should be posted.

6) The topic list should be overhauled, focussing less on book titles 
(too abstract and/or confusing) and more on "simple" topics.

7) More interaction and/or user feedback needed.

8) The TC-RTC site itself: easy to update one's images but no 
possibility to post source material. Site issues. Forum issues.


And now for my humble ideas on this.

sub 1 & sub 2) Yes, I agree. Participating is to challenge oneself to 
use and improve learned skills, sometimes in areas where one would not 
go easily. In that respect, I certainly would lament TC-RTC's demise. 
However, while this may be true for most members, including those who 
(almost) never participate (consider: TC-RTC has *159* live members to 
date!) somehow only an extremely small percentage of the members do 
actively participate. Already during the time of the first IRTC, 
participation was dwindling slowly towards the end, and the short IRTC 
revival never reached the old levels. So, something is bringing 
participation down: RL, change/dispersion of focus/interest, boredom, 
decreasing attention span, etc. Whatever the origin, it seriously 
impacts on the credibility of the TC-RTC at present.

sub 3) Again, I agree. One of the major reasons why I am beginning to 
feel tired with the TC-RTC Challenges is that I need to think of a new 
scene every two months while I would prefer to go on with running 
projects that have more appeal to me. The TC-RTC Challenges often 
disrupt a train of thoughts/actions. I still participate because I often 
feel that (as an admin)I need to help sustain the continuity of the 
challenges. At the same time I get irritated because this has no 
particular effect upon the submission bulk at all, or so I guess, and it 
does not attract submissions from members who have never done so. In the 
end, I fear that the Challenges are (wrongly) regarded as a strictly 
private game between a select number of members.

Would this all be improved with fewer challenges? Four per year for 
instance? I seriously doubt it, to tell the truth. I see no reason why 
this would really stimulate more members to submit.

sub 4) This also means more work for the admins and the question is if 
they are willing ;-)

sub 5) That is easy.

sub 6) I agree. I think that also a more comprehensive list could be 
extracted from the book titles, bringing those to their essence as it 
were. Remains the question of the site overhaul by Colin.

sub 7) Sure. However, the TC-RTC forum should be used for that. There is 
the problem of the spam users (still) queuing up at the gate and I have 
closed new admissions indefinitely, asking new members to contact the 
admins if they want to also participate in the forum. To date, I have 
/never/ seen any request from any member through that way. In addition, 
to us Povers, the TC-RTC forum is a bit redundant of course, as we 
communicate easily here.

sub 8) All depends on the site owner really.

To draw up my own conclusions, I would regret to see the TC-RTC go but I 
am seriously considering the fact that it may have had its 'best' days 
and that it is time to stop. Frankly, from the different suggestions, I 
see no guarantee that participation numbers will suddenly go up as by 
enchantment.

Thomas

[MichaelJF] Re: An End? [4768 days 9 hours and 54 minutes ago]

Sun, 17 Mar 2013 18:55:01 GMT

Christian Froeschlin <chr### [at] chrfrde> wrote:

Your ideas are fine, but I fear for this the website has to be renewed
completely. This could only be done by Colin, who seems to be a ghost last
years. Especially since he forgot to invoice. Since now only nine persons met
this discussion here. Adding Normand from the discussion at the TC-Forum we have
ten persons interested. That is not much. Only seven of them had entered the
competition so far. So why we want to have a competition?

The topics are generating ideas, but to speak for myself: I have a sketch-book
full of ideas for images. Some of them came from old IRTC topics but most from
things I experienced in RL or from my own imagination. So I don't need a contest
to generate ideas for images.

To speak a little bit in behalf of Normand. Sometimes he was accused here not
using POV, which is true. But as all I understood he uses a self-made
Java-Environment and Open-GL to render his pictures, which is still free
software and IMO the same as if he would use an other free 3D software like
Blender or may be AoI. So please do not blame him for this. No one seems to have
used AoI within TC so far, but there is at least one winner with a Blender
picture (Manuela with her wonderful "`Monsieur Dupont"'). As we POVers Normand
uses free software too. The only contributor to TC who uses professional
software is Ives (3 DS max which is some 3500 Euro licence fee if he had not a
campus licence).

But to come to a conclusion. Within more than a week now, only nine persons were
interested in this topic. That is not much. So I propose to await the results of
the "woman" round now. This is a very open topic and should yield a lot of
entries if the topic is really a reason. I decided to postpone my Freya idea a
bit and go for finishing my intended entry for the "Garden" round instead. So I
have to render occlusion maps for Ariadne herself, but Stephen will be pleaed by
it ;-)

If the "woman"-round yields only a small amount of entries, I would consider
ending the contest. What topic should yield more pictures? But the decision is
with Thomas and Stephen finally.

Best regards,
Michael

[Christian Froeschlin] Re: An End? [4772 days 5 hours and 48 minutes ago]

Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:01:22 GMT

MichaelJF wrote:

> Paolo was the first who proposed a longer time intervall. I really think this
> would help but I will propose a quarter.

it will probably give some people confidence they can spare enough
time in a quarter to finish a scene. On the other hand it doesn't help
those who are reluctant to begin a long term project, in a way it makes
that problem worse ;) Also it may raise expectations, you probably
wouldn't submit a work in progress to a 3 month contest.

I'm not sure if the current implementation easily allows this but
if the contests do not all have to be of the same length some shorter
"doodle" contests could be interspersed. Even if they run in parallel
they could be treated as consequtive contests by the website, e.g.

Jan 1st:   Quarter topic announced
Jan 1st:   Two week voting period for last quarter begins
Jan 15th:  Last quarters winners announced
Jan 15th:  One week doodle topic announced
Jan 15th:  One week upload period for doodle topic begins
Jan 22nd:  One week voting period for doodle contest begins
Feb 1st:   Doodle topic winner announced
Feb 1st:   Quarter topic upload period begins
Apr 1st:   Goto Jan 1st (Renum + 3 months)

The main problem with a short doodle contest is probably that it
can simply fall in an inconvenient week (travelling or whatever),
but otherwise the hurdle for entry may be lower. Also, while the
topics and rules do not need to be as technical as I suggested I
still think for such a challenge they should be restraining, so
you spend your allotted evening rendering something and not
deciding what you could render ;)

[MichaelJF] Re: An End? [4772 days 8 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:50:01 GMT

I admit that my proposal to end TC after the "woman"-round was an intended
provocation. Much more I would like to see more entrants and more entries. And
I'm happy that we arrived at a discussion here at last. So I will put in my two
cents to it (heavily relying on leo.org with this translation).

Paolo was the first who proposed a longer time intervall. I really think this
would help but I will propose a quarter. A winter, a spring, a summer and an
autumn round. Sounds nice to me. And I think Normand can live with this too.

A thing which was ever adressed within the last discussions about TC and our
efforts to promote it are the topics. Paolo proposed no topics, but I think that
the topics are crucial to a contest. They are a starting point of ones
imagination and ensures that the pictures are comparable (may be in a strange
way). As I read Christians list of topics I was delighted but I think there are
a little bit too technical. May be there is a list between. Topics which proves
technical difficulties but gives artistical freedom too. Why does "blossoms" pop
up in my mind again? May be because this would be a topic between (and may be
because I like flowers). Is it possible to exchange the topic list easily? I
fear Colin has a say to this. I propose to generate a new list of topics. And
since I had a very "strange encounter" today, this topic should be added too. (A
bird has lost its (his? - was a male one) way into our office. Since it was
exhausted I was able to catch it very carefully by hand and let it free out of
the window (12th floor). Never thought that I would ever have a living white
wagtail at my palms. And I will remember this strange encounter a long while).

The programming of the TINA CheP Site is not bad. For example it offers the
opportunity to update a picture easily during a contest. That was not possibly
with the IRTC. The drewback is that one cannot give a source. Which was possible
with the IRTC. But since we are using software which only allow to share the
resulting pictures but not the sources heavily now (Poser e.g.) that issue is of
minor importance now IMO. We can still publish our technical inventions at the
p.b.s-f. The only disadvantage of the forum is, that one cannot place a picture
there directly. You can only post a link.

Best regards,
Michael

[Stephen] Re: An End? [4773 days 12 hours and 13 minutes ago]

Tue, 12 Mar 2013 16:36:05 GMT

On 12/03/2013 4:01 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> Keep the brainstorming going folks! Some good suggestions given so far!

Yes that is true.
>
> We want to hear more!
>

Indeed!

I was going to wait a bit longer before replying but it is hard not to 
comment, when what has been said so far, I agree with.

One of the big problems is the website administrator.
He designed the site to Steve’s specifications 5 years ago. And when 
Thomas and I took over the administration (just super user rights) he 
said that he would continue supporting it under the same conditions. But 
for the last couple of years he has not invoiced us and seldom replies 
to emails. So we are in a position where we are kind of stuck with what 
we have got. We do not have the option of saying that we will take our 
money elsewhere if he does not do what we ask.
Having said that, minor changes such as changing the timing of the 
challenges should not be a big change, I hope.

So keep the ideas coming and we will see what is feasible to ask for.

BTW Does anyone have an idea what it would cost to get a similar site 
designed, built and hosted?

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: An End? [4773 days 12 hours and 48 minutes ago]

Tue, 12 Mar 2013 16:01:09 GMT

Keep the brainstorming going folks! Some good suggestions given so far!

We want to hear more!

Thomas

[clipka] Re: An End? [4773 days 13 hours and 3 minutes ago]

Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:46:25 GMT

Am 12.03.2013 14:11, schrieb Kenneth:

> So my own opinions are: Keep Tina CHEP going, as it serves a unique purpose; but
> perhaps give longer deadlines for entries. And maybe post a few more reminders
> in the newsgroups, on a regular basis. Monthly? Weekly?

Maybe a good way would be to keep the bi-monthly rhythm, but extend the 
deadlines at the same time, so that a new challenge starts /before/ the 
prior one has finished.

If that is technically not feasible, the challenge topics could be 
chosen maybe a month before the submission phase actually starts.

Just some brainstorming of mine, not really a settled opinion.

[Kenneth] Re: An End? [4773 days 15 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Tue, 12 Mar 2013 13:15:01 GMT

Paolo wrote:
> ...pov-contests (I also remember scc) are a way to improve own POV skills.
> And they are anyway a POV-Ray showcase: I met the very first time POV-Ray
> on IRTC web site after a google search for 3D code generated images.
> My major problem is the lack of time... I'm plenty of works in progress...but
> I'm not enough fast to complete the work in 2 months.

and Christian wrote:
> I duly note when a new topic is available but usually do not even get to
> the stage were I have a (realistic) idea for an image, and much less to
> committing to the arduous task of producing a publishable scene.

I agree with Paolo; and I suppose my own lack of contributions has the same root
cause as Christian's. I've actually never contributed an image or animation to
either the IRTC or Tina CHEP. My only excuse is that my usual POV scenes just
get too complex and time-consuming, and always seem to be works-in-progress,
never quite *finished* to my satisfaction. (Sometimes, I'll see a 'challenge
topic' that looks quite interesting--but more times than not, I'm working hard
on a different kind of scene, some personal topic that isn't appropriate for the
challenge. Putting that scene aside to start on a new one makes me feel like
I'll never finish either of them!)

However, I DO like seeing what others have done--it is GREAT inspiration,
especially the IRTC stuff from the past. Like Paolo, it showed me what was
possible with POV-Ray and how stunning the results could be.

So my own opinions are: Keep Tina CHEP going, as it serves a unique purpose; but
perhaps give longer deadlines for entries. And maybe post a few more reminders
in the newsgroups, on a regular basis. Monthly? Weekly?

[Christian Froeschlin] Re: An End? [4774 days 3 hours and 3 minutes ago]

Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:46:28 GMT

MichaelJF wrote:

> I posted this issue some 48 hours ago. There are four responses now.
> Two of them cannot be counted really

I'm probably not alone with the following predicament:

I think having a contest is a good thing, and as Tina Chep is
the only one oriented towards pov-ray (although not exclusively
or even majority-wise anymore) I'd hate to see it go.

But I also cannot in good conscience suggest you should invest a
lot of work to keep it going if I never get around to submitting
and entry - just for the fuzzy warm feeling it gives me to know
it is there should I ever make a nice image ...

Also, why don't I simply participate?

This is probably because I am lazy and my attention span lately
seems to approach that of a day fly on acid. I duly note when a
new topic is available but usually do not even get to the stage
were I have a (realistic) idea for an image, and much less to
committing to the arduous task of producing a publishable scene.

In my case this is not so much the merciless demands of RL but
also competing interests (I now have a telescope ...) and plain
procrastination (I'm now rerunning all ST TNG episodes ...)

Also my interest in raytracing is more of technical nature
(how to simulate atmospheric effects? can I render something
that looks fluffy? can I produce an isosurface function that
looks like grass? is it possible to reconstruct Escher's study
from a mirrorball reflection?). I usually get lost in one such
detail so I rarely finish a scene.

I were asked to design a competition that would appeal to me
most, it would probably have the following features

1. A focus on simple scenes that can and should be explored and
finished in one or two evenings (possibly with a weekly topic?).
E.g. single objects, doodles, friday abstracts.

2. Constraining topics that are not intended to be interpreted
with too much artistic freedom (e.g. "pebble", "glowing spheres",
"lightning bolt", "ice cube") and possibly sometimes constraining
rules (think short code contest, cgsphere, lighting challenge, ...)

3. Povray centered, not in order to exclude other people but because
- topics could explore specific technical features ("crazy crackle",
   "photon party", ...)
- the competition also serves to share the sdl code
- the broad user base of pov-ray tends to be more hobbyist
   than that of most other products

[MichaelJF] Re: An End? [4774 days 7 hours and 19 minutes ago]

Mon, 11 Mar 2013 21:30:01 GMT

Prepare for a longer posting. I started a longer iteration with my contour lines
to height_field approach to have the necessary time;-)

First some additional figures to help the decision makers with statistics. Over
all I count 52 different artists (or better nicks, including Juno. If I remember
correctly there was at least one entrant using two different nicks. I have used
my first nick TawnyOwl only here but not at TC). One of them contributed a the
quarter of 84 of all 336 entries exactelly. And there are some very well known
names among them (Sean Day, Bill Pragnell, Clipka just to tell some of them).

Over all 35 contests so far on average 9.6 entries were contributed by 7.4
artists. Maximum count of entries per contest was 20 at November 2008 minimum
was 2 at January 2011. If one calculates a linear regression analysis over the
whole period one sees a loss of 0.05 entries per round which cannot be
differentiated from pure chance statistically (no significance at a probabilty
level of 95%). If one looks only at the last two years (excluding the first and
the actual breakdown (January 2011 and january 2013)) one sees an increase of
0.39 entries per round. Unfortunatelly there is no statistical significance
again, so it may be pure chance again.

My interpretation - despite the missing statistical significance - is that we
just recovered after the breakdown from January 2011 and experienced just a new
one.

But enought statistics now.

>From: Thomas de Groot
>Thanks Michael, for bringing this up.

You are welcome!

>From: Stephen
>On 09/03/2013 6:44 PM, MichaelJF wrote:

>> but I think one has to meet reality someday even within virtual reality.

>Yes, it is good and timely that you brought this up Michael.

>TINA CheP was started in in 2007 by Steve Paget as a temporary stand in
>for the IRTC. It was designed and paid for by Steve who had a passion
>for Pov-Ray. When he died in 2010, I contacted the developer of the site
>and offered to keep it going. Thomas, very kindly, agreed to be one of
>the admins and it is he who does all the work for which I am very grateful.
>We have 155 registered members but as you point out we have only about
>half a dozen regular contributors. And I only submit entries to keep the
>numbers up

As I did in the past sometimes. The one or other unfinished WIP (Triceratops
e.g.) just to have an additional entry. Once I even entered a picture which was
intended for last place just to have an entry which can be beaten by newbies
(The abandoned Track). Doesn't worked.

> as my interest lies more with animations. (This section of
>TINA CheP was closed in 2010 due to lack of interest. In the four years
>it was running there were only 16 entries and on several occasions, I
>was the only one who submitted an entry.)

BTW I can only find 14 entries (there are 5 counted with the first contest but
only 3 at the archives).

>So, is it time to call it a day? The choice lies with the Pov-Ray community.

>Having said that the most prolific member is not a Pover. Out of 35
>contests DrNo has entered 83 images.

>From: Trevor G Quayle
>I have only had the opportunity to submit to the challenge once, RL really has
>hindered my ability to be a more consistent contributor.  I have noticed the
>lack of entries (combined with the prolific entries of DrNo) and have had the
>feeling that it would only be a matter of time before the question arose.

>I am a fan of challenges such as these for several reasons:
>- it helps stir creativity
>- it helps with development of POV skills and concepts: the CGSphere has lent
>well to CSG modelling, while 3DRender has helped me develop some lighting and
>texturing ideas
>- it pits POV against some of the big boys (in some cases I would modestly say
>it does better!)

Yes, a topic can give you inspiration.

>Perhaps there are a few things that can be done to TINACHEP (or a new off-shoot)
>that can help.  It may be that the topic selection is a bit too abstract and,
>especially novice users, may shy away from trying to develop a scene around the
>topic.  Perhaps much simpler topics could help in this matter (see CGSphere).
>Also, more interaction and user feedback could be helpful (ala 3DRender), either
>via a specific newsgroup here (though I know it is not exclusively POVRay), or a
>forum elsewhere.

Yes, with the topics there is a little problem. Most they came as titles from
very old books. And first I believed that I have to depict something from the
books and needed conformation that every association with the title is o.k.

From: Paolo Gibellini
>I'm only a basic user, but I agree with Trevor, pov-contests (I also
>remember scc) are a way to improve own POV skills. And they are anyway a
>POV-Ray showcase: I met the very first time POV-Ray on IRTC web site
>after a google search for 3D code generated images.
>My major problem is the lack of time... I'm plenty of works in progress
>for IRTC and (later) for TC-RTC, but I'm not enough fast to complete the
>work in 2 months.

As I. Yes this is a problem. I ever have to decide if I can afford some time for
an other project or to put it to the competition. For example recently I read an
article how to craft blossoms using L-Systems...

And a last observation. I will not comment on it, but only report this. I posted
this issue some 48 hours ago. There are four responses now. Two of them cannot
be counted really, since Thomas and Stephen are the admins of TC and has to
response to this issue. From all the other POVers only Trevor and Paolo replied.
During a shorter time the topic "Scattering media with a white background"
yielded 11 responses and not only from newbies.

Best regards,
Michael

[Paolo Gibellini] Re: An End? [4774 days 19 hours and 1 minute ago]

Mon, 11 Mar 2013 09:48:07 GMT

>Trevor G Quayle  on date 10/03/2013 15.26 wrote:
> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
[...]
> I am a fan of challenges such as these for several reasons:
> - it helps stir creativity
> - it helps with development of POV skills and concepts: the CGSphere has lent
> well to CSG modelling, while 3DRender has helped me develop some lighting and
> texturing ideas
> - it pits POV against some of the big boys (in some cases I would modestly say
> it does better!)
[...]
I'm only a basic user, but I agree with Trevor, pov-contests (I also 
remember scc) are a way to improve own POV skills. And they are anyway a 
POV-Ray showcase: I met the very first time POV-Ray on IRTC web site 
after a google search for 3D code generated images.
My major problem is the lack of time... I'm plenty of works in progress 
for IRTC and (later) for TC-RTC, but I'm not enough fast to complete the 
work in 2 months.

Opinions. Mmm.

Contests without topic?
4 or 6 months deadline?

Paolo

[Trevor G Quayle] Re: An End? [4775 days 14 hours and 19 minutes ago]

Sun, 10 Mar 2013 14:30:01 GMT

Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> On 09/03/2013 6:44 PM, MichaelJF wrote:
>
> > but I think one has to meet reality someday even within virtual reality.
> >
>
> So, is it time to call it a day? The choice lies with the Pov-Ray community.
>
> Having said that the most prolific member is not a Pover. Out of 35
> contests DrNo has entered 83 images.
>
> Your opinions are welcome.
>
>
> --
> Regards
>      Stephen

I have only had the opportunity to submit to the challenge once, RL really has
hindered my ability to be a more consistent contributor.  I have noticed the
lack of entries (combined with the prolific entries of DrNo) and have had the
feeling that it would only be a matter of time before the question arose.

I do like the idea of challenges:

I have contributed to CGSphere (http://www.cgsphere.com/) where the concept is a
simple fixed sphere base to the scene.  The challenge has voting and commenting,
but no timelines or end dates (it has been going for several years now).  I have
not had the chance to submit recently, but it does still get new entries.  There
is a POV template available that I had submitted to them.

I have also contributed to 3DRender Lighting Challenge.
(http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=185).  In this challenge, a
fixed full scene is made available ( I usually have to do conversion to get it
to POV), and the challenge is primarily to light the scene, though there is room
for manipulation of the scene itself.  This one has a fixed deadline, but no
real voting or winner; rather users submit WIP and discuss or critique.

I am a fan of challenges such as these for several reasons:
- it helps stir creativity
- it helps with development of POV skills and concepts: the CGSphere has lent
well to CSG modelling, while 3DRender has helped me develop some lighting and
texturing ideas
- it pits POV against some of the big boys (in some cases I would modestly say
it does better!)

Perhaps there are a few things that can be done to TINACHEP (or a new off-shoot)
that can help.  It may be that the topic selection is a bit too abstract and,
especially novice users, may shy away from trying to develop a scene around the
topic.  Perhaps much simpler topics could help in this matter (see CGSphere).
Also, more interaction and user feedback could be helpful (ala 3DRender), either
via a specific newsgroup here (though I know it is not exclusively POVRay), or a
forum elsewhere.

It would be tough to TINA go, but in its present state, I can see how it becomes
increasing difficult for the admins to keep it going.

-tgq

[Stephen] Re: An End? [4775 days 18 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Sun, 10 Mar 2013 10:04:01 GMT

On 09/03/2013 6:44 PM, MichaelJF wrote:

> but I think one has to meet reality someday even within virtual reality.
>

Yes, it is good and timely that you brought this up Michael.

TINA CheP was started in in 2007 by Steve Paget as a temporary stand in 
for the IRTC. It was designed and paid for by Steve who had a passion 
for Pov-Ray. When he died in 2010, I contacted the developer of the site 
and offered to keep it going. Thomas, very kindly, agreed to be one of 
the admins and it is he who does all the work for which I am very grateful.
We have 155 registered members but as you point out we have only about 
half a dozen regular contributors. And I only submit entries to keep the 
numbers up as my interest lies more with animations. (This section of 
TINA CheP was closed in 2010 due to lack of interest. In the four years 
it was running there were only 16 entries and on several occasions, I 
was the only one who submitted an entry.)

So, is it time to call it a day? The choice lies with the Pov-Ray community.

Having said that the most prolific member is not a Pover. Out of 35 
contests DrNo has entered 83 images.

Your opinions are welcome.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: An End? [4775 days 20 hours and 25 minutes ago]

Sun, 10 Mar 2013 08:23:51 GMT

On 9-3-2013 19:44, MichaelJF wrote:
> Hi there,
> I'm thinking about TINA CheP a little bit after the last rounds. And please
> excuse my very plain arguments. The number of entrants were small. The winners
> were a professionell (Normand), a semi-professionell (Robert) or Thomas, who is
> a hobbiest but has an advantage being a retiree and has much more time for
> rendering than occupied hobbiest like Stephen or me. I think the time of ray
> tracing contests is gone now. So I will have an entrant at the now existing
> round (I'm working heavily at this) not to have Ian alone. But I propose that
> this is the last round of the TINA CheP contest. Sadly,  but I think one has to
> meet reality someday even within virtual reality.

Thanks Michael, for bringing this up.

I do not want to give my detailed opinion on this right now, as I am one 
of the admins of the site. However, I admit that this thought has 
crossed my mind several times over the past half year or so.

So, please, give your opinions, as I believe a majority of POV-Ray users 
have participated in the TC-RTC some day in the past. Also, the TC-RTC 
was initiated by the POV-Ray community.

Thomas

[MichaelJF] An End? [4776 days 10 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Sat, 9 Mar 2013 18:45:03 GMT

Hi there,
I'm thinking about TINA CheP a little bit after the last rounds. And please
excuse my very plain arguments. The number of entrants were small. The winners
were a professionell (Normand), a semi-professionell (Robert) or Thomas, who is
a hobbiest but has an advantage being a retiree and has much more time for
rendering than occupied hobbiest like Stephen or me. I think the time of ray
tracing contests is gone now. So I will have an entrant at the now existing
round (I'm working heavily at this) not to have Ian alone. But I propose that
this is the last round of the TINA CheP contest. Sadly,  but I think one has to
meet reality someday even within virtual reality.

Best regards,

Michael

[MichaelJF] Re: TC-RTC March/April 2013 Challenge: Woman [4796 days 8 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Sun, 17 Feb 2013 20:10:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:

> This is a topic with obvious pitfalls :-)
>
> My (also obvious) suggestion is: Be as original as you can. Surprise us.
> Stretch the topic to its limits... and beyond.
>
> Thomas

Yes indeed, that's why I have posted this remark. I still think about an goddess
of feminity. The Irish Aine is difficult since there are a lot of contradicting
stories about here. And there is no graphical evidence about her  - only some
pictures from modern esoterics. But I found evidence for an other goddess of
feminity which travels a certain brigde (Biström) with a carriage torn by wild
cats to visit the well of the Nurns. So I will go for Freya. O.k. (northern)
germanistic goddesses may be closer to my nature as a German.

Best regards,
Michael

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC March/April 2013 Challenge: Woman [4797 days 20 hours and 23 minutes ago]

Sat, 16 Feb 2013 08:25:59 GMT

On 16-2-2013 9:07, Warp wrote:
> How about some URLs?
>

You are right!

http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/display/index.html


Thomas

[Warp] Re: TC-RTC March/April 2013 Challenge: Woman [4797 days 20 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Sat, 16 Feb 2013 08:07:42 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Hi all,

> The January/February Stills Challenge: *After The Storm (by Arthur, T. 
> S. (Timothy Shay), 1809-1885)* has ended. Members are all kindly invited 
> to vote for the uploaded images. As usual, they can do this till the end 
> of the current month. They need to vote for /all/ the images for the 
> votes to be valid!

> The new Challenge for March/April 2013 is: *Woman*.

> At the drawing board!

How about some URLs?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC March/April 2013 Challenge: Woman [4797 days 20 hours and 50 minutes ago]

Sat, 16 Feb 2013 07:59:04 GMT

On 15-2-2013 22:49, MichaelJF wrote:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> The January/February Stills Challenge: *After The Storm (by Arthur, T.
>> S. (Timothy Shay), 1809-1885)* has ended. Members are all kindly invited
>> to vote for the uploaded images. As usual, they can do this till the end
>> of the current month. They need to vote for /all/ the images for the
>> votes to be valid!
>>
>> The new Challenge for March/April 2013 is: *Woman*.
>>
>> At the drawing board!
>>
>> Stephen & Thomas, TC-RTC Administrators
>
> I must admit that I was the first this round to have voted for topics and that
> this topic was at second place within my voting. Since most entrants are male I
> judge this a difficult topic and I think one should stress the TC rules a little
> bit: It's not a call for nudity.
>
> I'm not quite sure what to do this round. a famous woman? Aphrodite, Nefertiti
> or Áine? Will see...
>

This is a topic with obvious pitfalls :-)

My (also obvious) suggestion is: Be as original as you can. Surprise us. 
Stretch the topic to its limits... and beyond.

Thomas

[MichaelJF] Re: TC-RTC March/April 2013 Challenge: Woman [4798 days 6 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Fri, 15 Feb 2013 21:50:01 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> The January/February Stills Challenge: *After The Storm (by Arthur, T.
> S. (Timothy Shay), 1809-1885)* has ended. Members are all kindly invited
> to vote for the uploaded images. As usual, they can do this till the end
> of the current month. They need to vote for /all/ the images for the
> votes to be valid!
>
> The new Challenge for March/April 2013 is: *Woman*.
>
> At the drawing board!
>
> Stephen & Thomas, TC-RTC Administrators

I must admit that I was the first this round to have voted for topics and that
this topic was at second place within my voting. Since most entrants are male I
judge this a difficult topic and I think one should stress the TC rules a little
bit: It's not a call for nudity.

I'm not quite sure what to do this round. a famous woman? Aphrodite, Nefertiti
or Áine? Will see...

Best regards,
Michael

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC March/April 2013 Challenge: Woman [4798 days 15 hours and 58 minutes ago]

Fri, 15 Feb 2013 12:51:17 GMT

Hi all,

The January/February Stills Challenge: *After The Storm (by Arthur, T. 
S. (Timothy Shay), 1809-1885)* has ended. Members are all kindly invited 
to vote for the uploaded images. As usual, they can do this till the end 
of the current month. They need to vote for /all/ the images for the 
votes to be valid!

The new Challenge for March/April 2013 is: *Woman*.

At the drawing board!

Stephen & Thomas, TC-RTC Administrators

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC January/February 2013 Challenge: After th... [4855 days 20 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Thu, 20 Dec 2012 08:07:51 GMT

The November/December Stills Challenge: *Garden* has ended. Members are 
all kindly invited to vote. As usual, they can do this till the end of 
the current month. Do not forget to vote for all the images if you want 
votes to be valid!

The new Challenge for January/February 2013 is: *After The Storm (by 
Arthur, T.S. (Timothy Shay), 1809-1885)*.

At the drawing board!

Stephen & Thomas, Administrators

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC: Call for Voters! [4855 days 20 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Thu, 20 Dec 2012 08:04:21 GMT

On 19-12-2012 20:58, MichaelJF wrote:
> Unfortunatelly I could not finish my Garden-entry this round (with the Minotaur
> and Theseus of course) due to RL issues. But I will post it to the p.b.i as soon
> as I'm through it. The actual round (Nov/Dec 2012 with the topic Garden) has 14
> entries - more than the last rounds. But only 4 from POVers, 2 from a
> autodesk-user and 8 from Dr. No. with his own "homemade Java OpenGL-renderer".
> So I fear the voting results will be heavily biased if not every interested
> POVer with an account at TC will vote this round. So please, vote this round! If
> you have no account to the TC-Contest, it is the same procedure as to other
> communities, the problem with the bots arise with an account to the TC-Forum if
> my brain remembers correctly (which is a bit out of order managing some 20
> intervention studies in RL in only two days now concurrently).


Hear! Hear!

Thanks Michael. Right out of my heart.

Take care.

Thomas

P.S. You remember correctly. The bot problem arises only with the forum. 
They (at the forumup.co.uk) seem not to be able to solve this once and 
for all.

[MichaelJF] Re: TC-RTC: Call for Voters! [4856 days 8 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Wed, 19 Dec 2012 20:00:01 GMT

Unfortunatelly I could not finish my Garden-entry this round (with the Minotaur
and Theseus of course) due to RL issues. But I will post it to the p.b.i as soon
as I'm through it. The actual round (Nov/Dec 2012 with the topic Garden) has 14
entries - more than the last rounds. But only 4 from POVers, 2 from a
autodesk-user and 8 from Dr. No. with his own "homemade Java OpenGL-renderer".
So I fear the voting results will be heavily biased if not every interested
POVer with an account at TC will vote this round. So please, vote this round! If
you have no account to the TC-Contest, it is the same procedure as to other
communities, the problem with the bots arise with an account to the TC-Forum if
my brain remembers correctly (which is a bit out of order managing some 20
intervention studies in RL in only two days now concurrently).

Best regards,
Michael

[Stephen] TC-RTC site is back online [4872 days 8 hours and 13 minutes ago]

Mon, 3 Dec 2012 20:35:51 GMT

After a short period of being down. The TC-RTC is back up.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC Forum: Want to become a member? Read ... [4889 days 13 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Fri, 16 Nov 2012 15:29:17 GMT

On 16-11-2012 15:18, B. Gimeno wrote:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>>
>> I am sorry for this inconvenience but it seems that spams are difficult
>> to get blocked in the first place despite efforts in that direction, in
>> particular despite visual recognition.
>>
>> Thomas
>
>
> Bots usually biuld misseplled phrases. Alwasy.

LOL.

The strange thing is that all those fake-members get past the visual 
recognition. So, either the bots have become sentient, or thousands of 
morons across the world do nothing else than applying 24/7 to all the 
forums they find on the internet.

Both eventualities make me shudder. ;-)

Thomas

[B Gimeno] Re: TC-RTC Forum: Want to become a member? Read ... [4889 days 14 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:20:01 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>
> I am sorry for this inconvenience but it seems that spams are difficult
> to get blocked in the first place despite efforts in that direction, in
> particular despite visual recognition.
>
> Thomas


Bots usually biuld misseplled phrases. Alwasy.

Bgimeno

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC: Call for Voters! [4889 days 16 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Fri, 16 Nov 2012 12:15:18 GMT

Hi all,

Obviously, we at the TC-RTC would like to see more images uploaded to 
the bi-monthly challenges, especially coming from the POV-Ray community. 
However, we are also in dire need of more voters. A fair number of 
POVers are member of the TC-RTC. We want to remind you that, even if you 
have not participated in a challenge with you own image, you still can 
and are encouraged to vote for the shown images when voting time is 
there. Too often, only the participants vote and those are too few to 
make a truly significant score. So please, spend a little bit of your 
time to vote and give your opinion on images which the participants have 
taken time to work on and are proud to present to the public.

And participate in the challenges, if you will!


Thomas & Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC Forum: Want to become a member? Read this! [4889 days 19 hours and 27 minutes ago]

Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:21:54 GMT

Hi all,

As the forumup.co.uk (of which the tinachepforum is part) is plagued by 
spam (bots?) trying to become members, admission of new members is 
strictly controlled by the administrators of each forum. I get 
information about new requests on a daily basis, however, I am not 
controlling the received mail every day which means I may miss some 
genuine applicants.

To date, I have recognized too late two people from the POV-Ray 
community: Nemesis and Shay. Maybe there are others but I have not seen 
them. If anybody from this community wants to participate in the Tina 
Chep Forum, please mention this *here* first, so that I can look out for 
the application and activate the account within the three days 
available. Please mention the name (and only the name) under which you 
will apply.

I am sorry for this inconvenience but it seems that spams are difficult 
to get blocked in the first place despite efforts in that direction, in 
particular despite visual recognition.

Best regards,

Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC November/December 2012 Challenge: Garden [4918 days 16 hours and 33 minutes ago]

Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:15:51 GMT

The September/October Stills Challenge: *The Alchemist* has ended. 
Members are all kindly invited to vote. As usual, they can do this till 
the end of the current month. Do not forget to vote for all the images 
if you want votes to be valid!

The new Challenge for November/December 2012 is: *Garden*.

At the drawing board!

Stephen & Thomas, Administrators

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC September/October 2012 Challenge: The... [4974 days 21 hours ago]

Thu, 23 Aug 2012 07:49:29 GMT

On 22-8-2012 17:05, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> On 22/08/12 16:41, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> The new Challenge for September/October 2012 is: *The Alchemist (Ben
>> Jonson, 1573?-1637)*.
>
>    Hmmm... I hear little voice on the back of my head, saying "remake,
> remake!". ;)
>

Revisiting one's past can be a kind of catharsis. Read /Brideshead 
revisited/; one always comes out a better person (read: a better render) ;-)

Thomas

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC September/October 2012 Challenge: The... [4975 days 10 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Wed, 22 Aug 2012 18:19:36 GMT

On 22/08/2012 4:05 PM, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> On 22/08/12 16:41, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> The new Challenge for September/October 2012 is: *The Alchemist (Ben
>> Jonson, 1573?-1637)*.
>
>    Hmmm... I hear little voice on the back of my head, saying "remake,
> remake!". ;)
>
Listen to your inner self. ;-)


-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[Jaime Vives Piqueres] Re: TC-RTC September/October 2012 Challenge: The... [4975 days 13 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Wed, 22 Aug 2012 15:05:03 GMT

On 22/08/12 16:41, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> The new Challenge for September/October 2012 is: *The Alchemist (Ben
> Jonson, 1573?-1637)*.

   Hmmm... I hear little voice on the back of my head, saying "remake, 
remake!". ;)

--
Jaime

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC September/October 2012 Challenge: The Alc... [4975 days 14 hours and 7 minutes ago]

Wed, 22 Aug 2012 14:41:54 GMT

The July/August Stills Challenge: *Railway* has ended.

Members are all kindly invited to vote. As usual, they can do this till 
the end of this month.
Remember: do not forget to vote for all the images if you want your 
votes to be valid!

Not a member yet? Please become one and participate in the bi-monthly 
Challenges.

The new Challenge for September/October 2012 is: *The Alchemist (Ben 
Jonson, 1573?-1637)*.


Stephen & Thomas, Administrators
http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

[Stephen] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [4979 days 17 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Sat, 18 Aug 2012 11:13:45 GMT

On 17/06/2012 8:00 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> The new Challenge for July/August 2012 is: Railway.

Drat! A day after the challenge closed and I have an idea that would not 
take long to do.
A Lawn Jockey holding a lantern.
With a green ribbon tied round the arms meant it was a safe house for 
escaped slaves on the underground railway. A red ribbon meant it was 
unsafe and to keep on going.

Ah! Well. That is life.

Other than that, congratulations to all the entrants for their great 
images and thank you to those who submitted unfinished work. It is 
appreciated. :-D


-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[clipka] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [4979 days 18 hours and 58 minutes ago]

Sat, 18 Aug 2012 09:51:00 GMT

Am 18.08.2012 03:22, schrieb jhu:

>> Hm... I /think/ I'm sort of obliged to join this challenge... time to
>> heat up the engine and get the USRA Heavy Santa Fe rolling again.
>
> I was looking forward to that steam engine.

Yeah, me too. But somehow I just couldn't push myself to tackle that 
dragon again.

[jhu] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [4980 days 3 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Sat, 18 Aug 2012 01:25:08 GMT

clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Am 17.06.2012 09:00, schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>
> > The new Challenge for July/August 2012 is: Railway.
>
> Hm... I /think/ I'm sort of obliged to join this challenge... time to
> heat up the engine and get the USRA Heavy Santa Fe rolling again.

I was looking forward to that steam engine. Unless you were hacking away at the
Povray 3.7 source code, in which case, carry on.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4982 days 20 hours and 22 minutes ago]

Wed, 15 Aug 2012 08:26:41 GMT

On 6-8-2012 21:13, nemesis wrote:
> Stephen <mcavoys_at@aoldotcom> wrote:
>> On 06/08/2012 7:00 PM, nemesis wrote:
>>>>> Hmmm... an idea I need to think about... In first instance I am not very
>>>>> blog-minded, but who knows...
>>> you could create a dummy account just to feel the hang of it.  You could have a
>>> main blog topic about the current competition, a WIP topic to let people post
>>> their images and a poll topic later to decide winners.
>>>
>>> The good thing about blogs really is that administration is a breeze (you
>>> basically do nothing besides posting new blog topics when you have to).
>>>
>>>
>> I think that the Tena Chep forum could be used for this.
>
> certainly.  Aside from a text-only presentation, I'm all for forums.
>

Two major problems with this option:

1) the images are only visible to members. Making them visible to the 
world ensures risks of spamming if not changing them or switching them.

2) images are not kept on the forum. Try to view images uploaded some 
time ago and you will see that they are not available anymore.

Thomas

[TawnyOwl] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4989 days 10 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Wed, 8 Aug 2012 18:00:01 GMT

Stephen <mcavoys_at@aoldotcom> wrote:
> On 06/08/2012 8:26 PM, TawnyOwl wrote:
> > Forunately, the girls appear as adds in the forum only.
>
> They seem to have disappeared ATM and when they were there they were of
> older ladies. o_O
>
> --
> Regards
>      Stephen

They didn't disappeared but we are served with adds the web-site thinks we are
want to look at. I have no idea about reading out cookies, but this may be the
reason that some of us see old ladies and others see young. I cannot remember to
have visited any site within the time that I have my actual machine which can
lead them to judge that I might react to the younger ones, but may be they only
judge that I'm male and of some 50 years of age and think that I may be
interested in a young russian or thai girl. Young russians were the adds just
some minutes ago in the forum. The muslim girls appeared only once.

But in fact the adds are only an annoyance and not more. And in this material
world we have to accept them to reduce costs.

Regards,
Michael

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4990 days 20 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Tue, 7 Aug 2012 08:02:55 GMT

On 7-8-2012 9:48, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> Using Firefox, you can use the Adblock Plus addon. Result: all adds
> disappear.

To be more correct: Adblock Plus is an /extension/ to Firefox.

Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [4990 days 20 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Tue, 7 Aug 2012 07:54:14 GMT

On 6-8-2012 18:58, jhu wrote:
>
> Entries are due by 8/17. Some of us are going to use the entire time!

Indeed, and that is good :-)

My initial call was to shake things up a bit. Never wrong to post a 
reminder.

Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4990 days 20 hours and 58 minutes ago]

Tue, 7 Aug 2012 07:51:30 GMT

On 6-8-2012 21:43, Stephen wrote:
> On 06/08/2012 8:13 PM, nemesis wrote:
>> certainly.  Aside from a text-only presentation, I'm all for forums.
>
> You can link to image shack or the like but the spammers...
>

Spamming is a worry although the most of the wave seems to have gone for 
a few months now. Maybe the admins have come up with a better way of 
fighting back.

Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4990 days 21 hours ago]

Tue, 7 Aug 2012 07:48:56 GMT

On 6-8-2012 21:26, TawnyOwl wrote:
> Thai or
>> Russian girls are quite pretty, but I'm not in need of one.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Michael
>
> Forunately, the girls appear as adds in the forum only.
>

Using Firefox, you can use the Adblock Plus addon. Result: all adds 
disappear.

Thomas

[TawnyOwl] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [4991 days 8 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Aug 2012 20:20:00 GMT

"jhu" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> > On 3-8-2012 22:28, BertvdB wrote:
> > > Stil now entrees, where are are all the railroadmodelers, regarding all the
> > > magazines and websites aboout this topic
> > >
> >
> > I was surprised too. However, see what TawnyOwl writes above. He may
> > have point there about visibility.
> >
> > Welcome to the TC-RTC Community by the way :-)
> >
> > Thomas
>
> Entries are due by 8/17. Some of us are going to use the entire time!

Yes, and I'm one of them.

I'm just considering to chance my nick here to adjust it to the abbreviation of
my real name I use with Tina Chep. May be others could think abouut this issue
too...

As I do ever researches about the new topic I just did some researches about the
special kind of railway I will depict in RL yesterday. Riding the "Mammut" and
two other coasters were really a great research work... WOW...

Best regards,
Michael

[Stephen] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4991 days 9 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Aug 2012 19:43:54 GMT

On 06/08/2012 8:13 PM, nemesis wrote:
> certainly.  Aside from a text-only presentation, I'm all for forums.

You can link to image shack or the like but the spammers...

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[Stephen] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4991 days 9 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Aug 2012 19:42:38 GMT

On 06/08/2012 8:26 PM, TawnyOwl wrote:
> Forunately, the girls appear as adds in the forum only.

They seem to have disappeared ATM and when they were there they were of 
older ladies. o_O

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[TawnyOwl] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4991 days 9 hours and 19 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Aug 2012 19:30:00 GMT

Thai or
> Russian girls are quite pretty, but I'm not in need of one.
>
> Regards,
> Michael

Forunately, the girls appear as adds in the forum only.

Regards,
Michael

[nemesis] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4991 days 9 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Aug 2012 19:15:01 GMT

Stephen <mcavoys_at@aoldotcom> wrote:
> On 06/08/2012 7:00 PM, nemesis wrote:
> >> >Hmmm... an idea I need to think about... In first instance I am not very
> >> >blog-minded, but who knows...
> > you could create a dummy account just to feel the hang of it.  You could have a
> > main blog topic about the current competition, a WIP topic to let people post
> > their images and a poll topic later to decide winners.
> >
> > The good thing about blogs really is that administration is a breeze (you
> > basically do nothing besides posting new blog topics when you have to).
> >
> >
> I think that the Tena Chep forum could be used for this.

certainly.  Aside from a text-only presentation, I'm all for forums.

[TawnyOwl] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4991 days 9 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Aug 2012 19:15:00 GMT

Stephen <mcavoys_at@aoldotcom> wrote:
> On 06/08/2012 7:00 PM, nemesis wrote:
> >> >Hmmm... an idea I need to think about... In first instance I am not very
> >> >blog-minded, but who knows...
> > you could create a dummy account just to feel the hang of it.  You could have a
> > main blog topic about the current competition, a WIP topic to let people post
> > their images and a poll topic later to decide winners.
> >
> > The good thing about blogs really is that administration is a breeze (you
> > basically do nothing besides posting new blog topics when you have to).
> >
> >
> I think that the Tena Chep forum could be used for this.
>
> --
> Regards
>      Stephen

I admit that my experiences as a web-admin (for a very small site) are long
gone. I remember there was a way to restrain bots but I forgot about the details
completely. Since I never have used or visited a blog I have no idea about their
possibilities. Can they give us all the goodies of a "real" web site? Updating
images, voting for the next topic and can we avoid the disadvantages? Thai or
Russian girls are quite pretty, but I'm not in need of one.

Regards,
Michael

[Stephen] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4991 days 10 hours and 13 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Aug 2012 18:36:13 GMT

On 06/08/2012 7:00 PM, nemesis wrote:
>> >Hmmm... an idea I need to think about... In first instance I am not very
>> >blog-minded, but who knows...
> you could create a dummy account just to feel the hang of it.  You could have a
> main blog topic about the current competition, a WIP topic to let people post
> their images and a poll topic later to decide winners.
>
> The good thing about blogs really is that administration is a breeze (you
> basically do nothing besides posting new blog topics when you have to).
>
>
I think that the Tena Chep forum could be used for this.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[nemesis] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4991 days 10 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Aug 2012 18:05:00 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 6-8-2012 2:40, nemesis wrote:
> > BTW, why not simply a free blog?  Something like tc-rtc.blogspot.com or
> > tc-rtc.wordpress.com?  Administration hurdle is minimal and can be
> > shared between a few select accounts.  Image posting and polls are among
> > the features, plus comment system builtin, etc.
> >
> > With so many cheap free solutions out there for creating and sharing
> > content, I don't see the reason for bothering with a "home page".
>
> Hmmm... an idea I need to think about... In first instance I am not very
> blog-minded, but who knows...

you could create a dummy account just to feel the hang of it.  You could have a
main blog topic about the current competition, a WIP topic to let people post
their images and a poll topic later to decide winners.

The good thing about blogs really is that administration is a breeze (you
basically do nothing besides posting new blog topics when you have to).

[Stephen] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [4991 days 10 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Aug 2012 18:03:45 GMT

On 06/08/2012 5:58 PM, jhu wrote:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> On 3-8-2012 22:28, BertvdB wrote:
>>> Stil now entrees, where are are all the railroadmodelers, regarding all the
>>> magazines and websites aboout this topic
>>>
>>
>> I was surprised too. However, see what TawnyOwl writes above. He may
>> have point there about visibility.
>>
>> Welcome to the TC-RTC Community by the way :-)
>>
>> Thomas
>
> Entries are due by 8/17. Some of us are going to use the entire time!
>
>
LOL That is midnight GMT on the 17th which is 1 a.m. BST on the 1st of 
September. But I wouldn't cut it that fine, myself.

Good luck and welcome. :-)

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[jhu] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [4991 days 11 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Aug 2012 17:00:01 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 3-8-2012 22:28, BertvdB wrote:
> > Stil now entrees, where are are all the railroadmodelers, regarding all the
> > magazines and websites aboout this topic
> >
>
> I was surprised too. However, see what TawnyOwl writes above. He may
> have point there about visibility.
>
> Welcome to the TC-RTC Community by the way :-)
>
> Thomas

Entries are due by 8/17. Some of us are going to use the entire time!

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4991 days 13 hours and 53 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Aug 2012 14:55:53 GMT

On 6-8-2012 2:40, nemesis wrote:
> BTW, why not simply a free blog?  Something like tc-rtc.blogspot.com or
> tc-rtc.wordpress.com?  Administration hurdle is minimal and can be
> shared between a few select accounts.  Image posting and polls are among
> the features, plus comment system builtin, etc.
>
> With so many cheap free solutions out there for creating and sharing
> content, I don't see the reason for bothering with a "home page".

Hmmm... an idea I need to think about... In first instance I am not very 
blog-minded, but who knows...

Thomas

[nemesis] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4992 days 4 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Mon, 6 Aug 2012 00:40:15 GMT

Em 05/08/2012 10:45, Stephen escreveu:
> On 05/08/2012 2:12 PM, Christian Froeschlin wrote:
>> actually this sounds like TC-RTC is quite dependent on the time and
>> interest of a single person. After the fate that befell IRTC (twice...)
>> this might be an issue of concern for people considering to join in.
>
> You are quite right Christian,
> To give some history, after the IRTC was down for about a year. Steve
> Paget (you may remember St) decided to give something back to the
> community. He contacted a web developer in his town and commissioned
> TC-RTC. So the web site is owned by Colin and we only use it. When Steve
> died a couple of years ago I contacted Colin and said that I would be
> willing to keep it running and Thomas de Groot kindly agreed to assist
> in the running of the site. (I say assist but Thomas does all the work.)
> We don’t own the code and cannot change it. As the memory of Steve has
> faded Colin has lost some of his enthusiasm for maintaining it.
> We have not bothered him too much with change requests. Partly because
> he does not give it a high priority (that means that he does not answer
> emails) and partly because the costs are minimal so you get what you pay
> for. We are a small group and most of us know the limitations and just
> live with it.
>
> So that is it in a nutshell. If you can think of a practical solution we
> would be pleased to hear it.

I remember St.

BTW, why not simply a free blog?  Something like tc-rtc.blogspot.com or 
tc-rtc.wordpress.com?  Administration hurdle is minimal and can be 
shared between a few select accounts.  Image posting and polls are among 
the features, plus comment system builtin, etc.

With so many cheap free solutions out there for creating and sharing 
content, I don't see the reason for bothering with a "home page".

[Stephen] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4992 days 15 hours and 3 minutes ago]

Sun, 5 Aug 2012 13:46:00 GMT

On 05/08/2012 2:12 PM, Christian Froeschlin wrote:
> actually this sounds like TC-RTC is quite dependent on the time and
> interest of a single person. After the fate that befell IRTC (twice...)
> this might be an issue of concern for people considering to join in.

You are quite right Christian,
To give some history, after the IRTC was down for about a year. Steve 
Paget (you may remember St) decided to give something back to the 
community. He contacted a web developer in his town and commissioned 
TC-RTC. So the web site is owned by Colin and we only use it. When Steve 
died a couple of years ago I contacted Colin and said that I would be 
willing to keep it running and Thomas de Groot kindly agreed to assist 
in the running of the site. (I say assist but Thomas does all the work.)
We don’t own the code and cannot change it. As the memory of Steve has 
faded Colin has lost some of his enthusiasm for maintaining it.
We have not bothered him too much with change requests. Partly because 
he does not give it a high priority (that means that he does not answer 
emails) and partly because the costs are minimal so you get what you pay 
for. We are a small group and most of us know the limitations and just 
live with it.

So that is it in a nutshell. If you can think of a practical solution we 
would be pleased to hear it.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[Christian Froeschlin] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4992 days 15 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Sun, 5 Aug 2012 13:12:54 GMT

> To Stephen: as administrators, we are only allowed to change the 
> floating top bar. Only Colin seems to have access to that part of the site.

actually this sounds like TC-RTC is quite dependent on the time and
interest of a single person. After the fate that befell IRTC (twice...)
this might be an issue of concern for people considering to join in.

Of course, you cannot pull a team of web site administrators out of
your hat, but you might want to ensure that the server, code, data and
backups are at least accessible by a larger number of people, and that
the system is documented to a point that someone else could setup a
new server running TC-RTC should the need arise.

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4993 days 21 hours and 37 minutes ago]

Sat, 4 Aug 2012 07:12:18 GMT

On 3-8-2012 22:13, nemesis wrote:
> if so, someone should edit the ROBOTS.txt file in the website...

Definitely something for Colin to look at. He is the Big Boss ;-)

Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4993 days 21 hours and 38 minutes ago]

Sat, 4 Aug 2012 07:10:42 GMT

On 3-8-2012 21:05, TawnyOwl wrote:

> I'm still wondering. The Tina-chep-site seems to be unvisible to google
> completely. If I search for my own entríes I find only pictures from people
with
> the same name than mine but not even a hint to my pictures. If I google for
> Thomas or Stephen I find only pictures published in the pov-newsgroups. The
> google search-engine is a bot, may be tc-rtc is rejecting bots, so we will never
> came up with google.
>

Now that you mention it... that may explain a lot of things...

Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [4993 days 21 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Sat, 4 Aug 2012 07:09:39 GMT

On 3-8-2012 22:28, BertvdB wrote:
> Stil now entrees, where are are all the railroadmodelers, regarding all the
> magazines and websites aboout this topic
>

I was surprised too. However, see what TawnyOwl writes above. He may 
have point there about visibility.

Welcome to the TC-RTC Community by the way :-)

Thomas

[BertvdB] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [4994 days 8 hours and 19 minutes ago]

Fri, 3 Aug 2012 20:30:01 GMT

Stil now entrees, where are are all the railroadmodelers, regarding all the
magazines and websites aboout this topic

[nemesis] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4994 days 8 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Fri, 3 Aug 2012 20:15:00 GMT

"TawnyOwl" <taw### [at] webde> wrote:
> "nemesis" <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> > > On 28-7-2012 9:11, Stephen wrote:
> > > > On 27/07/2012 7:12 PM, nemesis wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Three weeks to go; three images uploaded so far; we need more work!
> > > >>>
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> what?!!
> > > >>
> > > >> doesn't the competition end 31 august?!
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > No. The 31st of August is when the voting ends. We allow two weeks for
> > > > that so the deadline for entries is midnight of 17/8/12 BST.
> > > > To be honest I cannot find where to change that particular text.
> > > >
> > >
> > > ...and as you are told the next Challenge topic on that same date, you
> > > still have two complete months to prepare an entry :-)
> > >
> > > To Stephen: as administrators, we are only allowed to change the
> > > floating top bar. Only Colin seems to have access to that part of the site.
> >
> > well, I guess it's enough.  I was working on it but on july I got into a 2 week
> > vacation with my daughter and shall get to work on it again...
>
>
> I'm still wondering. The Tina-chep-site seems to be unvisible to google
> completely. If I search for my own entríes I find only pictures from people
with
> the same name than mine but not even a hint to my pictures. If I google for
> Thomas or Stephen I find only pictures published in the pov-newsgroups. The
> google search-engine is a bot, may be tc-rtc is rejecting bots, so we will never
> came up with google.
>
> Best regards,
> Michael

if so, someone should edit the ROBOTS.txt file in the website...

[Stephen] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4994 days 8 hours and 38 minutes ago]

Fri, 3 Aug 2012 20:11:29 GMT

On 03/08/2012 8:05 PM, TawnyOwl wrote:
> I'm still wondering. The Tina-chep-site seems to be unvisible to google
> completely.

You have a point there. I finally got in touch with Colin (the 
developer). When he gets back to me I will ask him about it.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[TawnyOwl] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [4994 days 9 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Fri, 3 Aug 2012 19:10:01 GMT

"nemesis" <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> > On 28-7-2012 9:11, Stephen wrote:
> > > On 27/07/2012 7:12 PM, nemesis wrote:
> > >
> > >>>
> > >>> Three weeks to go; three images uploaded so far; we need more work!
> > >>>
> > >
> > >>
> > >> what?!!
> > >>
> > >> doesn't the competition end 31 august?!
> > >>
> > >
> > > No. The 31st of August is when the voting ends. We allow two weeks for
> > > that so the deadline for entries is midnight of 17/8/12 BST.
> > > To be honest I cannot find where to change that particular text.
> > >
> >
> > ...and as you are told the next Challenge topic on that same date, you
> > still have two complete months to prepare an entry :-)
> >
> > To Stephen: as administrators, we are only allowed to change the
> > floating top bar. Only Colin seems to have access to that part of the site.
>
> well, I guess it's enough.  I was working on it but on july I got into a 2 week
> vacation with my daughter and shall get to work on it again...


I'm still wondering. The Tina-chep-site seems to be unvisible to google
completely. If I search for my own entríes I find only pictures from people with
the same name than mine but not even a hint to my pictures. If I google for
Thomas or Stephen I find only pictures published in the pov-newsgroups. The
google search-engine is a bot, may be tc-rtc is rejecting bots, so we will never
came up with google.

Best regards,
Michael

[nemesis] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [5000 days 11 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Sat, 28 Jul 2012 17:15:01 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 28-7-2012 9:11, Stephen wrote:
> > On 27/07/2012 7:12 PM, nemesis wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>> Three weeks to go; three images uploaded so far; we need more work!
> >>>
> >
> >>
> >> what?!!
> >>
> >> doesn't the competition end 31 august?!
> >>
> >
> > No. The 31st of August is when the voting ends. We allow two weeks for
> > that so the deadline for entries is midnight of 17/8/12 BST.
> > To be honest I cannot find where to change that particular text.
> >
>
> ...and as you are told the next Challenge topic on that same date, you
> still have two complete months to prepare an entry :-)
>
> To Stephen: as administrators, we are only allowed to change the
> floating top bar. Only Colin seems to have access to that part of the site.

well, I guess it's enough.  I was working on it but on july I got into a 2 week
vacation with my daughter and shall get to work on it again...

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [5000 days 21 hours and 27 minutes ago]

Sat, 28 Jul 2012 07:22:22 GMT

On 28-7-2012 9:11, Stephen wrote:
> On 27/07/2012 7:12 PM, nemesis wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Three weeks to go; three images uploaded so far; we need more work!
>>>
>
>>
>> what?!!
>>
>> doesn't the competition end 31 august?!
>>
>
> No. The 31st of August is when the voting ends. We allow two weeks for
> that so the deadline for entries is midnight of 17/8/12 BST.
> To be honest I cannot find where to change that particular text.
>

...and as you are told the next Challenge topic on that same date, you 
still have two complete months to prepare an entry :-)

To Stephen: as administrators, we are only allowed to change the 
floating top bar. Only Colin seems to have access to that part of the site.

Thomas

[Stephen] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [5000 days 21 hours and 38 minutes ago]

Sat, 28 Jul 2012 07:11:27 GMT

On 27/07/2012 7:12 PM, nemesis wrote:

>>
>> Three weeks to go; three images uploaded so far; we need more work!
>>

>
> what?!!
>
> doesn't the competition end 31 august?!
>

No. The 31st of August is when the voting ends. We allow two weeks for 
that so the deadline for entries is midnight of 17/8/12 BST.
To be honest I cannot find where to change that particular text.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[nemesis] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [5001 days 10 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Fri, 27 Jul 2012 18:15:01 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 17-6-2012 9:00, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> > The new Challenge for July/August 2012 is: Railway.
> >
> >
> > Stephen & Thomas, Administrators
> > http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html
>
> Three weeks to go; three images uploaded so far; we need more work!
>
> Where is all that inspiration gone?
>
> Come on people, winter sleep is over ;-)
>
> Thomas

what?!!

doesn't the competition end 31 august?!

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway: ... [5001 days 20 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Fri, 27 Jul 2012 08:39:24 GMT

On 17-6-2012 9:00, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> The new Challenge for July/August 2012 is: Railway.
>
>
> Stephen & Thomas, Administrators
> http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

Three weeks to go; three images uploaded so far; we need more work!

Where is all that inspiration gone?

Come on people, winter sleep is over ;-)

Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [5002 days 21 hours and 11 minutes ago]

Thu, 26 Jul 2012 07:37:46 GMT

On 20-7-2012 18:20, nemesis wrote:
> I think Blender always came with its own render engine -- the so-called
> Blender Internal -- but it was seemingly just a scanline back then:
>
> http://www.blender.org/features-gallery/gallery/archive/2003/
>
> The old Blender Internal renderer got a raytracer integrated but is too
> messy, too late.  They intend to make the new Cycles unbiased path
> tracer the default engine eventually.  It's built into the latest
> releases and already provides some awesome results at minimal cost for
> set up and I'll be using it.  Just hope my modelling skills can match
> the lighting... :)
I am slowly learning Blender, so I am curious.

Thomas

[nemesis] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [5008 days 12 hours and 28 minutes ago]

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:20:31 GMT

Em 20/07/2012 04:31, Thomas de Groot escreveu:
> On 19-7-2012 16:22, clipka wrote:
>> Maybe because back then Blender's built-in rendering engine (if it even
>> had any then) sucked?
>
> Yes, I have been wondering at that. When was Blender's render engine
> launched? I have the impression that back in 2003 there was none...

I think Blender always came with its own render engine -- the so-called 
Blender Internal -- but it was seemingly just a scanline back then:

http://www.blender.org/features-gallery/gallery/archive/2003/

The old Blender Internal renderer got a raytracer integrated but is too 
messy, too late.  They intend to make the new Cycles unbiased path 
tracer the default engine eventually.  It's built into the latest 
releases and already provides some awesome results at minimal cost for 
set up and I'll be using it.  Just hope my modelling skills can match 
the lighting... :)

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [5008 days 21 hours and 17 minutes ago]

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 07:31:32 GMT

On 19-7-2012 16:22, clipka wrote:
> Maybe because back then Blender's built-in rendering engine (if it even
> had any then) sucked?

Yes, I have been wondering at that. When was Blender's render engine 
launched? I have the impression that back in 2003 there was none...

Thomas

[clipka] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [5009 days 14 hours and 26 minutes ago]

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:22:41 GMT

Am 19.07.2012 09:01, schrieb Thomas de Groot:

> I remember one image (Decay, 2003) because it was made by a colleague
> from work back then, which was modelled in Blender and rendered in
> POV-Ray... I don't know why it was not rendered also in Blender though.

Maybe because back then Blender's built-in rendering engine (if it even 
had any then) sucked?

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [5009 days 21 hours and 48 minutes ago]

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 07:01:28 GMT

On 18-7-2012 21:25, TawnyOwl wrote:
>
> nearly every ray-tracer thinkable was used in the irtc. I have only data for the
> first period up to 2006. Pov was used most, but for example some 10 percent of
> the entries were made with 3DS closely followed by Bryce. Next seems to be
> Blender.
My memory is selective ;-)

I remember one image (Decay, 2003) because it was made by a colleague 
from work back then, which was modelled in Blender and rendered in 
POV-Ray... I don't know why it was not rendered also in Blender though.

>
> Don't ask why I have such statistics...

I won't ;-)

Thomas

[TawnyOwl] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [5010 days 9 hours and 19 minutes ago]

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 19:30:01 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>
> Really? I do not remember any other raytracer used than POV-Ray... But
> then, I may not have really paid attention to that as it was POV-Ray in
> most cases... or am I wrong?

Hi Thomas,

nearly every ray-tracer thinkable was used in the irtc. I have only data for the
first period up to 2006. Pov was used most, but for example some 10 percent of
the entries were made with 3DS closely followed by Bryce. Next seems to be
Blender.

Don't ask why I have such statistics...

Best regards,
Michael

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [5015 days 16 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Fri, 13 Jul 2012 12:28:04 GMT

On 12-7-2012 23:19, Stephen wrote:
> On 12/07/2012 9:35 PM, jhu wrote:
>> Why not make just make tina chep the new irtc.org?
>>
>>
> When TC-RTC was started it was meant as a temporary stand in for the
> IRTC. But it has never grabbed the attention of the ray tracing
> community. If you can think of anything that would help promote it.
> Thomas and I would welcome any suggestions.
> And just to make it clear, TC-RTC is not associated with Pov-Ray in any
> way other than the administrators are long time users of Pov-Ray. In
> fact the rules were changed to allow any renderer to be used as one of
> the early members built and uses his own system.
> It is not just a matter of changing its name. As always there is more to
> the story.
> What we need is for lots of people to enter and lots of people to vote
> for the entries.
> Why don’t you join and enter an image or vote for the next challenge. We
> have a forum as well.
> Everyone is welcome.
>
>
And there is more I think. When the IRTC restarted, TC-RTC suffered a 
bit from people turning back to the old familiar grounds, but it seems 
that the real interest in these kind of competitions/challenges has 
dwindled as the IRTC too suffered in the end from a lack of uploads, 
especially compared to the heydays of the competition. And many of the 
strong artists from those days have disappeared over the last five to 
ten years. Other interests? Other challenges?

Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [5015 days 16 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Fri, 13 Jul 2012 12:17:59 GMT

On 13-7-2012 9:17, Le_Forgeron wrote:
> Le 12/07/2012 23:19, Stephen a Ã©crit :
>> If you can think of anything that would help promote it.
>
> A coherent name with a coherent url.
> So far it seems called "tina chep", yet the not obvious url is
> www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html
>
> At least www.tc-rtc.co.uk is giving a good page. And google find it
> first on just "tc-rtc"
>
> short acronym is good for URL: irtc was easy to remember, but that
> "minus" sign is just a PITA for tc-rtc (where is it ? second, third,
> fourth position... too much pain for a brain)

I am not so sure about location finding for interested people. That 
sounds rather trivial to me. One of the criticism I have heard however 
was that the topics (based on book titles) were not liked, or some such. 
Too much pain for the brain?  ;-)

>
> tinachep is a too long acronym (sort of; "che" is a quite large bit),
> and "KNX is not X" is a tired meme, just a bit older than "all your base
> belong to us"... even "the cake is a lie" is faded, like all the YA...
> pattern

???

>
>
> And irtc was not about povray. just raytracers.

Really? I do not remember any other raytracer used than POV-Ray... But 
then, I may not have really paid attention to that as it was POV-Ray in 
most cases... or am I wrong?

Thomas

[Le Forgeron] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [5015 days 21 hours and 32 minutes ago]

Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:17:22 GMT

Le 12/07/2012 23:19, Stephen a Ã©crit :
> If you can think of anything that would help promote it.

A coherent name with a coherent url.
So far it seems called "tina chep", yet the not obvious url is
www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

At least www.tc-rtc.co.uk is giving a good page. And google find it
first on just "tc-rtc"

short acronym is good for URL: irtc was easy to remember, but that
"minus" sign is just a PITA for tc-rtc (where is it ? second, third,
fourth position... too much pain for a brain)

tinachep is a too long acronym (sort of; "che" is a quite large bit),
and "KNX is not X" is a tired meme, just a bit older than "all your base
belong to us"... even "the cake is a lie" is faded, like all the YA...
pattern


And irtc was not about povray. just raytracers.

[Stephen] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [5016 days 7 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Thu, 12 Jul 2012 21:19:35 GMT

On 12/07/2012 9:35 PM, jhu wrote:
> Why not make just make tina chep the new irtc.org?
>
>
When TC-RTC was started it was meant as a temporary stand in for the 
IRTC. But it has never grabbed the attention of the ray tracing 
community. If you can think of anything that would help promote it. 
Thomas and I would welcome any suggestions.
And just to make it clear, TC-RTC is not associated with Pov-Ray in any 
way other than the administrators are long time users of Pov-Ray. In 
fact the rules were changed to allow any renderer to be used as one of 
the early members built and uses his own system.
It is not just a matter of changing its name. As always there is more to 
the story.
What we need is for lots of people to enter and lots of people to vote 
for the entries.
Why don’t you join and enter an image or vote for the next challenge. We 
have a forum as well.
Everyone is welcome.


-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[jhu] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [5016 days 8 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:40:00 GMT

Why not make just make tina chep the new irtc.org?

[Stephen] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [5040 days 9 hours and 57 minutes ago]

Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:52:21 GMT

On 18/06/2012 6:40 PM, nemesis wrote:
> I'll enter this one.  Red Dead Redemption got me fired up... :)
>
>
>
Go for it! :-)

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[nemesis] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [5040 days 11 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:45:01 GMT

I'll enter this one.  Red Dead Redemption got me fired up... :)

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [5040 days 21 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:07:53 GMT

On 17-6-2012 16:12, clipka wrote:
> Am 17.06.2012 09:00, schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>
>> The new Challenge for July/August 2012 is: Railway.
>
> Hm... I /think/ I'm sort of obliged to join this challenge... time to
> heat up the engine and get the USRA Heavy Santa Fe rolling again.

That would be fantastic! You have been missed :-)

Thomas

[clipka] Re: TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [5041 days 14 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:13:02 GMT

Am 17.06.2012 09:00, schrieb Thomas de Groot:

> The new Challenge for July/August 2012 is: Railway.

Hm... I /think/ I'm sort of obliged to join this challenge... time to 
heat up the engine and get the USRA Heavy Santa Fe rolling again.

[Thomas de Groot] TC_RTC July/August 2012 Challenge: Railway [5041 days 21 hours and 48 minutes ago]

Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:00:46 GMT

The May/June Stills Challenge: After Dark has ended.

Members are all kindly invited to vote. As usual, they can do this till 
the end of this month.
Remember: do not forget to vote for all the images if you want your 
votes to be valid!

Not a member yet? Please become one and participate in the bi-monthly 
Challenges.

The new Challenge for July/August 2012 is: Railway.


Stephen & Thomas, Administrators
http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC May/June 2012 Challenge: After Dark [5102 days 20 hours and 53 minutes ago]

Tue, 17 Apr 2012 07:55:57 GMT

The March/April Stills Challenge: Acres of Diamonds: our every-day 
opportunities (by Conwell, Russell Herman, 1843-1925) has ended.

Members are all kindly invited to vote. As usual, you can do this till 
the end of this month. Do not forget to vote for all the images if you 
want your votes to be valid!

Not a member yet? Please become one and participate in the bi-monthly 
Challenges.

The new Challenge for May/June 2012 is: After Dark (by Collins, Wilkie, 
1824-1889).


Stephen & Thomas, Administrators
http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC March/April 2012 Challenge: Acres of Diam... [5163 days 20 hours ago]

Thu, 16 Feb 2012 08:49:06 GMT

The January/February Stills Challenge: Japanese has ended.

Members are all kindly invited to vote. As usual, you can do this till 
the end of this month. Do not forget to vote for all the images if you 
want your votes to be valid!

Not a member yet? Please become one and participate in the two monthly 
Challenges.

The new Challenge for March/April 2012 is Acres of Diamonds: our 
every-day opportunities (by Conwell, Russell Herman, 1843-1925).

Stephen & Thomas, Administrators

[TawnyOwl] Re: TC-RTC January/February 2012 Challenge: Japa... [5220 days 6 hours and 54 minutes ago]

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 21:55:00 GMT

"nemesis" <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> As I woke up in a brisky trollish mood, after browsing the latest winners in the
> Dinosaur contest I have to say I'm rather disappointed to see how scanline
> OpenGl renders like these:
>
> http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/imagenewdisplay/stills/index356.html
> http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/imagenewdisplay/stills/index351.html
>
> look much better than this atrocious and baroque povray third place render:
>
> http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/imagenewdisplay/stills/index354.html
>
> Come on!  I'm sure povray has been put to far better use years ago in IRTC...

May be Normand uses an other renderer, but I esteem him as a very gifted artist
using his special tools with mastery. I prefer POV but have limited skills due
to limited time at the moment. So I will end up with a more or less WIP in my
entries. But I try and enter the competition. I cannot see an entry from the
goddess of revenge in the whole history of the tc-rtc. So please don't complain,
make it better. I know you have some abilities.

Regards,
Michael

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC January/February 2012 Challenge: Japa... [5222 days 20 hours and 13 minutes ago]

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:36:03 GMT

On 18-12-2011 13:23, nemesis wrote:
> look much better than this atrocious and baroque povray third place render:
>
> http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/imagenewdisplay/stills/index354.html

By the way, this image did *not* get the third place, as you can see in 
the banner heading the web page. This was due to internal (automatic) 
calculation errors. Instead, Robert McGegor's Low Tide got third place. 
For some reason the list has not (yet) been corrected.

Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC January/February 2012 Challenge: Japa... [5223 days 13 hours and 43 minutes ago]

Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:05:53 GMT

As Stephen says: it's up to you.

Thomas

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC January/February 2012 Challenge: Japa... [5223 days 16 hours ago]

Sun, 18 Dec 2011 12:49:11 GMT

On 18/12/2011 12:23 PM, nemesis wrote:
> As I woke up in a brisky trollish mood, after browsing the latest winners in the
> Dinosaur contest I have to say I'm rather disappointed to see how scanline
> OpenGl renders like these:
>
> http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/imagenewdisplay/stills/index356.html
> http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/imagenewdisplay/stills/index351.html
>
> look much better than this atrocious and baroque povray third place render:
>
> http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/imagenewdisplay/stills/index354.html
>
> Come on!  I'm sure povray has been put to far better use years ago in IRTC...
>
>
>
I’ll keep my personal opinions of the results out of it. But there are a 
couple of constructive things that you could do. You are very welcome to 
join and submit as many entries as you want or you can join and vote for 
the entries. Unlike the IRTC voting is open to all members.
We welcome all.

There is also a forum where you can voice your opinions at:
http://tinachepforum.forumup.co.uk/


-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[nemesis] Re: TC-RTC January/February 2012 Challenge: Japa... [5223 days 16 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Sun, 18 Dec 2011 12:25:00 GMT

As I woke up in a brisky trollish mood, after browsing the latest winners in the
Dinosaur contest I have to say I'm rather disappointed to see how scanline
OpenGl renders like these:

http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/imagenewdisplay/stills/index356.html
http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/imagenewdisplay/stills/index351.html

look much better than this atrocious and baroque povray third place render:

http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/imagenewdisplay/stills/index354.html

Come on!  I'm sure povray has been put to far better use years ago in IRTC...

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC January/February 2012 Challenge: Japanese [5223 days 19 hours and 46 minutes ago]

Sun, 18 Dec 2011 09:02:37 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html the November/December Stills 
Challenge: The Sphinx (by Poe, Edgar Allan, 1809-1849) has ended. 
Members are all kindly invited to vote. As usual, you can do this till 
the end of this month. Do not forget to vote for all the images if you 
want your votes to be valid!

Not a member yet? Please become one and participate in the two monthly 
Challenges.

The new Challenge for January/February 2012 is Japanese. Go the Way of 
the Samurai, visit Fukushima, or focus on Sony or Toyota? The choice is 
yours.

At the drawing board!

Stephen & Thomas, Administrators

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC November/December Challenge: The Sphinx -... [5284 days 20 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Tue, 18 Oct 2011 08:14:13 GMT

At http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html the September/October Stills 
Challenge: Dinosaurs has ended. Members are all kindly invited to vote. 
As usual, you can do this till the end of this month. Do not forget to 
vote for all the images if you want your votes to be valid!

Not a member yet? Please become one and participate in the two monthly 
Challenges.

The new Challenge for November/December is The Sphinx (by Poe, Edgar 
Allan, 1809-1849). This smells of Ancient Egypt and mystery indeed. 
Although, butterflies... Will you surpass the Master of the Grotesque? 
We expect the best from you!

At the drawing board!

Stephen & Thomas, Administrators

[Thomas de Groot] Re: Offering hosting and programming for the IRTC [5292 days 21 hours and 54 minutes ago]

Mon, 10 Oct 2011 06:55:04 GMT

On 9-10-2011 19:06, Jim Henderson wrote:
> <shrug>
>
> I thought there was an expiration period on this group.  Apparently not.

<grin>

But there was another thread indeed, like Christian said, with a few 
serious answers/advices. I wonder where that disappeared to...

Thomas

[Jim Henderson] Re: Offering hosting and programming for the IRTC [5293 days 11 hours and 43 minutes ago]

Sun, 9 Oct 2011 17:06:14 GMT

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 09:28:39 +0200, Thomas de Groot wrote:

> On 7-10-2011 21:18, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Probably expired.
> 
> ?? while all other posts are not?
> 
> Thomas

<shrug>

I thought there was an expiration period on this group.  Apparently not.

Jim

[Thomas de Groot] Re: Offering hosting and programming for the IRTC [5293 days 21 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Sun, 9 Oct 2011 07:35:00 GMT

On 7-10-2011 19:42, TawnyOwl wrote:

> So in the end, I would like to see your pictures in the TINA-CheP...

<grin> thank you Michael. Much appreciated.

I don't know how things are elsewhere, but IRTC and TC-RTC have (had) 
some difficulties to generate much response and reasons are anyone's guess.

Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: Offering hosting and programming for the IRTC [5293 days 21 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Sun, 9 Oct 2011 07:28:40 GMT

On 7-10-2011 21:18, Jim Henderson wrote:
> Probably expired.

?? while all other posts are not?

Thomas

[Jim Henderson] Re: Offering hosting and programming for the IRTC [5295 days 9 hours and 31 minutes ago]

Fri, 7 Oct 2011 19:18:16 GMT

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 20:55:32 +0200, Christian Froeschlin wrote:

> TawnyOwl wrote:
> 
>> I'm a little bit confused that no one had answered your offer so far
> 
> I'm also confused now because I remember there was a second post with
> more detail, which actually had some replies, but the thread appears to
> have been lost, or removed?

Probably expired.

Jim

[Christian Froeschlin] Re: Offering hosting and programming for the IRTC [5295 days 9 hours and 53 minutes ago]

Fri, 7 Oct 2011 18:55:36 GMT

TawnyOwl wrote:

> I'm a little bit confused that no one had answered your offer so far

I'm also confused now because I remember there was a second post
with more detail, which actually had some replies, but the thread
appears to have been lost, or removed?

[TawnyOwl] Re: Offering hosting and programming for the IRTC [5295 days 11 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Fri, 7 Oct 2011 17:45:01 GMT

"Park" <par### [at] hispeedfusecom> wrote:
> I am a past designer in POVRay and have a lot of respect for the community. As a
> long time programmer and a site hosting company I would like to offer space and
> programming for the IRTC. This is donated and would be either
> povray.hispeedfuse.com or irtc.hispeedfuse.com. If you are interested please
> contact me. par### [at] hispeedfusecom

Hello Park,

I'm a little bit confused that no one had answered your offer so far (after more
than a fortnight). And certainly I'm not the one who can speak in behalf of the
IRTC. I appreciate your offer to continue the IRTC, but I think you have read
the discussions here, especially the one initiated by Fabian Mosen and all the
responses to that thread. As I said in other threads in this context, the number
of active competitors is very small at the moment (6 at the last and abandoned
IRTC round) and in the mean the same number at the TINA Chep-Competition. My
personal opinion is, that we should not revive the IRTC but promote the existing
TINA-CheP-Competition. I really hope I can meet the deadline this round to give
my "dinosaur", which is the current topic. But I'm not sure at the moment...

So in the end, I would like to see your pictures in the TINA-CheP...

Regards,
Michael.

[David Buck] Re: IRTC site [5304 days 10 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 17:58:07 GMT

If someone wants to take on this project and it's approved by the IRTC 
administrator, I can extract the data from the last version of the IRTC 
that was running in order to provide a history of the IRTC rounds.

Ii can attest that it's a lot of work beyond just the initial development.

David Buck


Christian Froeschlin wrote:
> Park wrote:
> 
>> I have been programming ColdFusion for business applications for 15
>> years and would love to take over the IRTC and host the site for free
>> as well. Please contact me.
> 
> Thank you for your offer, I'm sure it is appreciated by the community.
> Regarding an official statement, Chris Cason is probably the best person
> to contact. It's possible he will read this post, or you could try to
> reach him via the pov team contact email given at the end of
> 
>   http://www.povray.org/povlegal.html
> 
> They might prefer not to "give away" the IRTC, though; the last attempt
> at resurrection was still hosted on the povray servers as far as I know.
> I'm not sure if this would be a problem for you.
> 
>> All I would need is a list of services needed for the site,
>> requirements, etc.. This can be completed in a couple of weeks if not
>> sooner since this is actually very simple programming to me.
> 
> I know you have professional experience, but do not underestimate the
> project you'd embark upon. If you do, it will only lead to frustration
> for everyone involved (again).
> 
> First of all, in contrast to a commercial project, it is much harder
> to even get a list of requirements. There is no single customer who pays
> and decides. You can look back at older threads in this group to find
> out about some consensus the community arrived at during earlier
> discussion regarding desired IRTC behavior.
> 
> People will try to access the site using the most curious combinations
> of OS and browser, and you can less easily ignore them because they make
> up a sizable proportion of the crowd here ;)
> 
> Also, hacking together a working system is only part of the solution.
> It should be possible for someone else to administer the site in case
> other things pop up in your life with priority (also, to reduce the
> dependency on administrator time, a high degree of automation in
> the submission and voting process is desirable).
> 
> Special requirements that have been specified in the past are the
> ability to browse the site without being logged in and to be able
> to have (session-independent) bookmarkability / direct URLs.
> 
> Otherwise, I suppose you are familiar with the old IRTC and maybe
> have seen the intermediate resurrection (you can probably get the
> smalltalk code for that from David Buck to get an idea of the
> system even though you would likely not be using the code).
> 
> Finally, this post is not intended to discourage or deter you. Just
> be sure you know what you are in for before committing yourself. I can
> only speak for myself but your offer is most welcome, thanks again!

[Christian Froeschlin] Re: IRTC site [5313 days 4 hours and 2 minutes ago]

Tue, 20 Sep 2011 00:47:14 GMT

Park wrote:

> I have been programming ColdFusion for business applications for 15
> years and would love to take over the IRTC and host the site for free
> as well. Please contact me.

Thank you for your offer, I'm sure it is appreciated by the community.
Regarding an official statement, Chris Cason is probably the best person
to contact. It's possible he will read this post, or you could try to
reach him via the pov team contact email given at the end of

   http://www.povray.org/povlegal.html

They might prefer not to "give away" the IRTC, though; the last attempt
at resurrection was still hosted on the povray servers as far as I know.
I'm not sure if this would be a problem for you.

> All I would need is a list of services needed for the site,
> requirements, etc.. This can be completed in a couple of weeks if not
> sooner since this is actually very simple programming to me.

I know you have professional experience, but do not underestimate the
project you'd embark upon. If you do, it will only lead to frustration
for everyone involved (again).

First of all, in contrast to a commercial project, it is much harder
to even get a list of requirements. There is no single customer who pays
and decides. You can look back at older threads in this group to find
out about some consensus the community arrived at during earlier
discussion regarding desired IRTC behavior.

People will try to access the site using the most curious combinations
of OS and browser, and you can less easily ignore them because they make
up a sizable proportion of the crowd here ;)

Also, hacking together a working system is only part of the solution.
It should be possible for someone else to administer the site in case
other things pop up in your life with priority (also, to reduce the
dependency on administrator time, a high degree of automation in
the submission and voting process is desirable).

Special requirements that have been specified in the past are the
ability to browse the site without being logged in and to be able
to have (session-independent) bookmarkability / direct URLs.

Otherwise, I suppose you are familiar with the old IRTC and maybe
have seen the intermediate resurrection (you can probably get the
smalltalk code for that from David Buck to get an idea of the
system even though you would likely not be using the code).

Finally, this post is not intended to discourage or deter you. Just
be sure you know what you are in for before committing yourself. I can
only speak for myself but your offer is most welcome, thanks again!

[Mike the Elder] Re: IRTC site [5313 days 16 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Mon, 19 Sep 2011 11:50:01 GMT

"Park" <par### [at] hispeedfusecom> wrote:
> I have been programming ColdFusion for business applications for 15 years and
> would love to take over the IRTC and host the site for free as well. Please
> contact me. Most of the sites I programmed are internal business tracking sites.
> Other than that I have storefronts for Carlile, BP, Conoco Phillips, and a host
> of other major Alaskan companies. In the past I worked on some PovRay graphics
> and do love the community. All I would need is a list of services needed for the
> site, requirements, etc.. This can be completed in a couple of weeks if not
> sooner since this is actually very simple programming to me. Let me know.
>

I, for one, would be very happy to see the IRTC make a comeback. Thanks much for
your willingness to help. I do hope something comes of this.  Perhaps those in
the POV-Ray community who know more that I do about how to contact former IRTC
admins might graciously help out.

Best Regards,
Mike C.

[Park] Re: IRTC site [5315 days 5 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Sat, 17 Sep 2011 22:50:00 GMT

I have been programming ColdFusion for business applications for 15 years and
would love to take over the IRTC and host the site for free as well. Please
contact me. Most of the sites I programmed are internal business tracking sites.
Other than that I have storefronts for Carlile, BP, Conoco Phillips, and a host
of other major Alaskan companies. In the past I worked on some PovRay graphics
and do love the community. All I would need is a list of services needed for the
site, requirements, etc.. This can be completed in a couple of weeks if not
sooner since this is actually very simple programming to me. Let me know.



David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
> I understand your frustration.  Here's my perspective:
>
> I volunteered my time for a period of about a year to re-develop the
> IRTC site since nobody else was stepping up to the plate.  If I was
> going to rewrite the site software, it would at least be in a language
> which I like and understand well.  That's why I chose Smalltalk.  If
> anyone else volunteers to take over the project and rewrite the code,
> you can use any language you wish.
>
> The project became more complicated when Chris Cason expressed the
> desire to make the pages bookmarkable and google-indexable. The site was
> developed in Seaside which normally puts session keys into the URLS.
> Making the pages bookmarkable changed this policy and made the coding
> harder.  It also meant that users browsing the site without logging in
> used a new session for every page hit.
>
> After finally making the site live and struggling to correct problems
> amidst much complaining from the community, we got the software stable
> except for one nagging problem. The web sessions are always set to
> time-out.  In order to give people enough time to submit images without
> timing out, we had to increase the timeout to 30 minutes.  But, to allow
> the site to be navigable without logging in and to be bookmarkable,
> every page view created a new session.  The combination of these two
> factors meant that lots of hits by users who weren't logged in would
> create lots of sessions and eat up lots of memory.  The application was
> chewing up too much memory and was causing problems with the server.
>
> I'm now super busy with several contracts at once and have no time to
> volunteer any more to the IRTC.  On top of that, the number of
> submissions had dropped to about 6 per competition which meant that
> every submission won something (which is kind of meaningless).  We felt
> that the lack of interest and the memory issue was too much to keep the
> application running.
>
> Now, if anyone out there wants to take it over, be my guest.  I can make
> all of the Smalltalk code available to you if you wish.  You can also
> re-write it in PHP or any other language you like.  I just can't spend
> more time on it because I'm already too busy working on other stuff.
>
> I tried, folks, but the rewards were too small, the effort was too high,
> and the complaints from people not satisfied with the efforts we put in
> were too annoying.
>
> I'd be happy to help anyone take over, but my volunteer time on this
> project is done.
>
> David Buck

[Park] Offering hosting and programming for the IRTC [5315 days 6 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Sat, 17 Sep 2011 22:45:01 GMT

I am a past designer in POVRay and have a lot of respect for the community. As a
long time programmer and a site hosting company I would like to offer space and
programming for the IRTC. This is donated and would be either
povray.hispeedfuse.com or irtc.hispeedfuse.com. If you are interested please
contact me. par### [at] hispeedfusecom

[Thomas de Groot] Dinosaurs at the TC-RTC [5316 days 14 hours and 48 minutes ago]

Fri, 16 Sep 2011 14:00:35 GMT

Hi all,

There are still enough time left to participate in the TC-RTC Challenge 
for September/October, with the title: Dinosaurs.
See: http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/index/index.html

You may interpret the subject in any way you want as long as it inspires 
your creativity. Interpretation does not have to be literal. See the 
TC-RTC rules if you are unsure.
See: http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/faq/index.html

Feel inspired...?


Thomas
co-administrator

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC PovRay 0, Other 3 [5343 days 17 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Sat, 20 Aug 2011 11:38:40 GMT

On 19-8-2011 20:50, TawnyOwl wrote:
> this is a very interesting information to a stastician like me. Blinding is a
> good idea to avoid bias, but then you must blind all the information available.
> The author (we all know that Normand uses his own renderer), the country and so
> on. And even this will not suffice, since we are a very small community at the
> moment and we will recognize each other only by looking at the pictures...

I generally close my eyes while voting.....

[tries to avoid clots of earth, eggs, tomatoes, etc]

Thomas

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC PovRay 0, Other 3 [5343 days 17 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Sat, 20 Aug 2011 10:49:56 GMT

On 19/08/2011 7:50 PM, TawnyOwl wrote:
> this is a very interesting information to a stastician like me. Blinding is a
> good idea to avoid bias, but then you must blind all the information available.
> The author (we all know that Normand uses his own renderer), the country and so
> on. And even this will not suffice, since we are a very small community at the
> moment and we will recognize each other only by looking at the pictures...

True, true and true, Michael. :-)

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[TawnyOwl] Re: TC-RTC PovRay 0, Other 3 [5344 days 9 hours and 54 minutes ago]

Fri, 19 Aug 2011 18:55:00 GMT

>
> This is to stop any bias in the voting. The “render used” will be visible
after
> the voting ends.
>
> Stephen

Hi Stephen,

this is a very interesting information to a stastician like me. Blinding is a
good idea to avoid bias, but then you must blind all the information available.
The author (we all know that Normand uses his own renderer), the country and so
on. And even this will not suffice, since we are a very small community at the
moment and we will recognize each other only by looking at the pictures...

Regards,
Michael

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC PovRay 0, Other 3 [5346 days 8 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Aug 2011 20:20:00 GMT

"TawnyOwl" <taw### [at] webde> wrote:
> Hm, hm,
>
> now that I have posted my marathon-picture to the tc-rtc, I see, that the
> "renderer used" line is only filled with #, and not with the correct entry
> "POV-Ray 3.7" (I changed it for testing from "POV-Ray 3.7 RC3" to "POV-Ray-3.7",
> but it is hidden anyway. That the email-line is filled with #, I'm content with.
>
> Regards,
> Michael.

This is to stop any bias in the voting. The “render used” will be visible
after
the voting ends.

Stephen

[TawnyOwl] Re: TC-RTC PovRay 0, Other 3 [5346 days 8 hours and 54 minutes ago]

Wed, 17 Aug 2011 19:55:01 GMT

Hm, hm,

now that I have posted my marathon-picture to the tc-rtc, I see, that the
"renderer used" line is only filled with #, and not with the correct entry
"POV-Ray 3.7" (I changed it for testing from "POV-Ray 3.7 RC3" to "POV-Ray-3.7",
but it is hidden anyway. That the email-line is filled with #, I'm content with.

Regards,
Michael.

[TawnyOwl] Re: TC-RTC PovRay 0, Other 3 [5348 days 8 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 20:05:01 GMT

Thomas de Groot <tenDOTlnDOTretniATtoorgedDOTt> wrote:
> On 22-7-2011 21:54, TawnyOwl wrote:
> > I've forgot to say: I render with PovRay only. (But use other programs, like
> > Wings in the upcoming picture and Poser or DAZ in the future as auxiliaries).
> >
> That is very good. Doing that myself too, with Silo instead of Wings ;-)
>
> Thomas

Hello Thomas,

thank you for your trust in me. Now, the "final" (can a "final" rendering ever
exist?) rendering is running, and I have to rely on my new Core i7 with 16 GB
RAM (4 wasn't enough) to do it just in time. I have just registered as a new
chepper, but under my real name and not with the nick of a model I tried in the
past. May be I finish my owl some time, but certainly not in the near future. I
really like this birds...

I have a lot of ideas to improve my upcoming picture (the water should be a
little bit more dirty, we need some leafs between the stones and so on) but the
advantage of a deadline is: you have to accept the things you have achieved and
be content with it. And I am. I hope you like snails...

Regards,
Michael.

[Thomas de Groot] TC-RTC July/August Challenge: The Earth Trembled [5371 days 20 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Sat, 23 Jul 2011 08:04:03 GMT

Hi all,

There are still some weeks left to participate in the TC-RTC Challenge 
for July/August, with the title: The Earth Trembled (by Edward Payson 
Roe, 1838-...).

You may interpret the subject in any way you want as long as it inspires 
your creativity. Interpretation does not have to be literal. See the 
TC-RTC rules if you are unsure. See: http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/faq/index.html

Feel inspired...?


Thomas
co-administrator

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC PovRay 0, Other 3 [5371 days 21 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Sat, 23 Jul 2011 07:29:08 GMT

On 22-7-2011 21:54, TawnyOwl wrote:
> I've forgot to say: I render with PovRay only. (But use other programs, like
> Wings in the upcoming picture and Poser or DAZ in the future as auxiliaries).
>
That is very good. Doing that myself too, with Silo instead of Wings ;-)

Thomas

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC PovRay 0, Other 3 [5371 days 21 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Sat, 23 Jul 2011 07:28:08 GMT

On 22-7-2011 21:42, TawnyOwl wrote:
> Hi to the crowd,
>
> maybe I expressed myself a little bit badly or I misunderstand Stephen a bit,
> but in the end I agree to all the points stated here in the last days. If the
> financial crisis plays a significant role, I cannot judge. I really think, that
> in the high times of the irtc with more than 200 entries per round a lot of them
> was motivated by gaining points for jobs in the industry. But may be I'm wrong.
> The financial crisis may be an other reason. May be both reasons played a part.
> In the revitalized irtc in 2009 and 2010 there were only few contributors too,
> some 10 I remember. At the last abandoned competition of the irtc it was only 6
> I'm sure. To promote the TC-RTC here is a very good idea certainly. I'm not sure
> whether the TC-RTC-website needs much improvements or not. The one or other
> explanation about the topics or so would help certainly but I will not mangle
> myself with questions of style.

Yes, there seems to be a trend there. We shall never know the real 
reasons for that evolution I am afraid. Best we can do is to try to keep 
the TC-RTC as visible - and interesting - as possible.

>
> I really think that you should not surrender with the TC-RTC and looking at my
> WIP at this very moment I think you gain a new contributor this round, maybe
> with a very headstrong interpretation of the topic.

Michael, that is good news. Thank you for joining our little community.

Thomas

[TawnyOwl] Re: TC-RTC PovRay 0, Other 3 [5372 days 8 hours and 54 minutes ago]

Fri, 22 Jul 2011 19:55:01 GMT

I've forgot to say: I render with PovRay only. (But use other programs, like
Wings in the upcoming picture and Poser or DAZ in the future as auxiliaries).

Regards,
Michael

[TawnyOwl] Re: TC-RTC PovRay 0, Other 3 [5372 days 9 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Fri, 22 Jul 2011 19:45:01 GMT

Hi to the crowd,

maybe I expressed myself a little bit badly or I misunderstand Stephen a bit,
but in the end I agree to all the points stated here in the last days. If the
financial crisis plays a significant role, I cannot judge. I really think, that
in the high times of the irtc with more than 200 entries per round a lot of them
was motivated by gaining points for jobs in the industry. But may be I'm wrong.
The financial crisis may be an other reason. May be both reasons played a part.
In the revitalized irtc in 2009 and 2010 there were only few contributors too,
some 10 I remember. At the last abandoned competition of the irtc it was only 6
I'm sure. To promote the TC-RTC here is a very good idea certainly. I'm not sure
whether the TC-RTC-website needs much improvements or not. The one or other
explanation about the topics or so would help certainly but I will not mangle
myself with questions of style.

I really think that you should not surrender with the TC-RTC and looking at my
WIP at this very moment I think you gain a new contributor this round, maybe
with a very headstrong interpretation of the topic.

Regards,
Michael

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC PovRay 0, Other 3 [5377 days 3 hours and 53 minutes ago]

Mon, 18 Jul 2011 00:55:49 GMT

I agree with Thomas's comments and thanks for the good ideas.

On 17/07/2011 7:56 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> Furthermore, the jumble of items on the main TC-RTC page
>> ("Home") could be cleaned up a bit so as to not put off
>> passers-by (no offence intended). I'm not a web designer
>> but feel free to contact me for some suggestions ;)
>
> Oh yes. I totally agree. Some time ago, Colin (the webmaster) asked
> Stephen and me about ways to improve the site. I sent him a list of
> suggestions, especially about the homepage which is certainly a jumble.
> Nothing has been done yet, but I shall ask him about it. Thanks for
> reminding us.

Yes Colin did say that and any ideas will be welcome. I for one am 
bereft of them.
-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC PovRay 0, Other 3 [5377 days 21 hours and 53 minutes ago]

Sun, 17 Jul 2011 06:56:27 GMT

On 16-7-2011 21:10, Christian Froeschlin wrote:
> Stephen wrote:
>
>> I'm just wondering if it is worth keeping it going.
>
> I think it is, and I have now finally registered even
> though I will likely not enter this round. Thank you for
> your efforts in keeping this up.

Thank you :-)

>
>> if you have any ideas please let us know.
>
> The marketing could be improved ... for those that
> haven't yet been actively involved with TC-RTC its easy
> to forget its even there. I would suggest posting each
> new topic announcement here (including a direct link
> to the images from the current round, that should then
> be in voting phase if I understand the timing).

Yes, you are right. We wrongly assume - or so do I - that this community 
knows about the TC-RTC. Of course this is not true and you are right to 
point that out. I have taken the habit of sending out a newsletter to 
members when voting and a new topic is announced. I shall do that here 
too in the future.

>
> This will help attract people in two ways:
>
> 1. If someone reacts positively to the topic he may join

Indeed.

> 2. Most people reading this group will be interested to
> have at least a quick look at the final renders of a
> 3d render challenge and will visit, possibly vote.

Yes.

>
> Even though the name of this newsgroup is irtc I think
> such posts would not be off-topic since you are basically
> the only working IRTC analogue at the moment.

Yes, I think that would be ok. There is no direct need to start a 
separate newsgroup as far as I can see.

>
> Of course, the tone of the post should be neutrally
> informative, not complaining or accusing.

<grin> or offensive ("hey you dudes! Move your fat @$$!")  ;-)

>
> Furthermore, the jumble of items on the main TC-RTC page
> ("Home") could be cleaned up a bit so as to not put off
> passers-by (no offence intended). I'm not a web designer
> but feel free to contact me for some suggestions ;)

Oh yes. I totally agree. Some time ago, Colin (the webmaster) asked 
Stephen and me about ways to improve the site. I sent him a list of 
suggestions, especially about the homepage which is certainly a jumble. 
Nothing has been done yet, but I shall ask him about it. Thanks for 
reminding us.

Thomas

[Christian Froeschlin] Re: TC-RTC PovRay 0, Other 3 [5378 days 9 hours and 38 minutes ago]

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 19:11:00 GMT

Stephen wrote:

> I'm just wondering if it is worth keeping it going.

I think it is, and I have now finally registered even
though I will likely not enter this round. Thank you for
your efforts in keeping this up.

> if you have any ideas please let us know.

The marketing could be improved ... for those that
haven't yet been actively involved with TC-RTC its easy
to forget its even there. I would suggest posting each
new topic announcement here (including a direct link
to the images from the current round, that should then
be in voting phase if I understand the timing).

This will help attract people in two ways:

1. If someone reacts positively to the topic he may join
2. Most people reading this group will be interested to
    have at least a quick look at the final renders of a
    3d render challenge and will visit, possibly vote.

Even though the name of this newsgroup is irtc I think
such posts would not be off-topic since you are basically
the only working IRTC analogue at the moment.

Of course, the tone of the post should be neutrally
informative, not complaining or accusing.

Furthermore, the jumble of items on the main TC-RTC page
("Home") could be cleaned up a bit so as to not put off
passers-by (no offence intended). I'm not a web designer
but feel free to contact me for some suggestions ;)

[Thomas de Groot] Re: TC-RTC PovRay 0, Other 3 [5378 days 21 hours and 23 minutes ago]

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 07:25:59 GMT

On 16-7-2011 2:33, Stephen wrote:
> On 15/07/2011 10:06 PM, TawnyOwl wrote:
>> Hi Stephen,
>>
>> ok. there where only a few entries and Normand wons it all. But can we
>> blame him
>> for using his own (possibly handcrafted - as I understand him from
>> earlier
>> contributions) renderer? I Don't think so.
>
> Michael, I did not meant to *blame* Normand. I don't see how that could
> possibly be done. He is a stalwart of the TC-RTC.
>
> I am just disappointed that there are so few entries from the PovRay
> community, that is all. The site was set up in response to the outcry
> when the IRTC went down. It costs money (not a lot) to run and there is
> the time and effort of the administrators, mostly Thomas. Well actually
> it is Thomas who effectively does it all.
> I'm just wondering if it is worth keeping it going.
> if you have any ideas please let us know.
>

I agree with Stephen that the response from the community is very 
disappointing especially after the large discussion we had here 
resulting in the launching of the TC-RTC by Steve Paget. I suspect there 
are a couple of reasons for this, one of them being possibly the 
financial crisis which might have pointed priorities towards more 
mundane things. Nobody to blame for that, except for the financial 
rogues of course.

I have been too busy creating images for the TC-RTC to really pay 
attention to the *new* IRTC while it was active, but neither did it 
attract as much participants as the *old* IRTC in its best days, if I am 
correct. So, the same processes may have been at work there too.

And maybe people are tired of competitions? ;-)  I am not that keen of 
them myself but I see them as challenges to create something interesting 
and/or to stimulate my imagination in ways I would not have followed 
normally. And let's be frank, we may not be the top of artistic quality 
- whatever that may be in our world by the way - but I am convinced that 
we have produced some very interesting and creative quality work over 
the years. Maybe some people are snobbing us, but we have enough reason 
to be proud of our hobbyist production.

Thomas

[Stephen] Re: TC-RTC PovRay 0, Other 3 [5379 days 4 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 00:33:31 GMT

On 15/07/2011 10:06 PM, TawnyOwl wrote:
> Hi Stephen,
>
> ok. there where only a few entries and Normand wons it all. But can we blame him
> for using his own (possibly handcrafted - as I understand him from earlier
> contributions) renderer? I Don't think so.

Michael, I did not meant to *blame* Normand. I don't see how that could 
possibly be done. He is a stalwart of the TC-RTC.

I am just disappointed that there are so few entries from the PovRay 
community, that is all. The site was set up in response to the outcry 
when the IRTC went down. It costs money (not a lot) to run and there is 
the time and effort of the administrators, mostly Thomas. Well actually 
it is Thomas who effectively does it all.
I'm just wondering if it is worth keeping it going.
if you have any ideas please let us know.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[TawnyOwl] Re: TC-RTC PovRay 0, Other 3 [5379 days 7 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 21:10:00 GMT

Stephen <mcavoys_at@aoldotcom> wrote:
> A dismal round where a homemade java renderer took the top three places
> out of five entries. (One Pover missed the deadline for voting)
> This rendering challenge was started by the late Steve Paget (St) when
> the IRTC went belly up. It is in danger of going the same way due to
> lack of interest.
> The current stills topic is “The Earth trembled”. So if you would like
> to support the Tina Chep – RenderTime Challenge the deadline for entries
> is 24:00 (GMT) 16th of August 2011. If the topic does not suit you then
> you could register at the site and vote for the next topic.
>
> --
> Regards
>      Stephen

Hi Stephen,

ok. there where only a few entries and Normand wons it all. But can we blame him
for using his own (possibly handcrafted - as I understand him from earlier
contributions) renderer? I Don't think so. Possibly one can limited the number
of entries to one per person, but what will be yield? We would only limit
Normand to one entry and gain no more from others. And you cannot call the work
from Normand bad. I don't like all of his work, but the most of it is really
good and beyond some other winners of the IRTC, if we skip the top artists of
the IRTC like Jaime Vives Piqueres or Gilles Tran. So please don't blame Normand
only because he uses another renderer. I think that we have to accept, that we
are only a very few hobbiest now, and that the professional efforts, we have
seen in the 1990ies in the irtc are gone to the industry directly or via
raph.com. If you like to answer me in private my email is taw### [at] webde
(beware of the underscore).

Regards,
Michael

[Thomas de Groot] Re: Not IRTC but Tina Chep [5379 days 21 hours and 52 minutes ago]

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 06:57:11 GMT

On 14-7-2011 22:02, TawnyOwl wrote:
>> It is what the title sparks off in your imagination. :-D
>> Victorian novelists... dreadful IMO
>>
>> --
>> Regards
>>       Stephen
>
> Again a second though of mine. I noticed that you have dropped the information
> about the author of the text at the Tina CHep-Website this time, possibly due to
> my postings here. Despite the fact that this special text wasn't delighting (to
> me!), the lecture about the photography or the airships was. So I suggest, to
> specify more clearly at the website that only the titles of the books should be
> the source of inspiration but an idea at the contents would be serve as well.
> E.g. I would never came up with the idea to reproduce an old photography with
> POV as Thomas de Groot craftfully did.
>
> Regards,
> Michael.
>
>

Sorry Michael, also my fault because I forgot to insert the authors 
name. I shall do that right away.
It takes some time to make things run smoothly again...

Thomas

[TawnyOwl] Re: Not IRTC but Tina Chep [5380 days 8 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Thu, 14 Jul 2011 20:05:00 GMT

> It is what the title sparks off in your imagination. :-D
> Victorian novelists... dreadful IMO
>
> --
> Regards
>      Stephen

Again a second though of mine. I noticed that you have dropped the information
about the author of the text at the Tina CHep-Website this time, possibly due to
my postings here. Despite the fact that this special text wasn't delighting (to
me!), the lecture about the photography or the airships was. So I suggest, to
specify more clearly at the website that only the titles of the books should be
the source of inspiration but an idea at the contents would be serve as well.
E.g. I would never came up with the idea to reproduce an old photography with
POV as Thomas de Groot craftfully did.

Regards,
Michael.

[TawnyOwl] Re: Not IRTC but Tina Chep [5380 days 9 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Thu, 14 Jul 2011 19:05:01 GMT

Hi Stephen,

thanks for your reply again. I hoped for that. But I will switch to another
sport, if I can meet the deadline...

Regards,
Michael

[Stephen] TC-RTC PovRay 0, Other 3 [5391 days 17 hours and 47 minutes ago]

Sun, 3 Jul 2011 11:01:51 GMT

A dismal round where a homemade java renderer took the top three places 
out of five entries. (One Pover missed the deadline for voting)
This rendering challenge was started by the late Steve Paget (St) when 
the IRTC went belly up. It is in danger of going the same way due to 
lack of interest.
The current stills topic is “The Earth trembled”. So if you would like 
to support the Tina Chep – RenderTime Challenge the deadline for entries 
is 24:00 (GMT) 16th of August 2011. If the topic does not suit you then 
you could register at the site and vote for the next topic.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[Stephen] Re: Not IRTC but Tina Chep [5393 days 8 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 Jul 2011 20:14:53 GMT

On 01/07/2011 7:41 PM, TawnyOwl wrote:
> Oh what a stuff!
> I never have read a novel told so worse - and I have read a lot of stuff even in
> the foreign language of English. This one is really bad. The style of narration
> is crude. But I think you're only interested in the title: the trembling Earth.
> May be that I have an idea, since we have the female world championship of
> soccer at hand here in Germany right now.
> Regards Michael.
>
>
>
It is what the title sparks off in your imagination. :-D
Victorian novelists... dreadful IMO

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[TawnyOwl] Re: Not IRTC but Tina Chep [5393 days 10 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Fri, 1 Jul 2011 18:45:00 GMT

Oh what a stuff!
I never have read a novel told so worse - and I have read a lot of stuff even in
the foreign language of English. This one is really bad. The style of narration
is crude. But I think you're only interested in the title: the trembling Earth.
May be that I have an idea, since we have the female world championship of
soccer at hand here in Germany right now.
Regards Michael.

[TawnyOwl] Re: Not IRTC but Tina Chep [5394 days 9 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Thu, 30 Jun 2011 19:35:00 GMT

> Well at the moment the current voting is for Earth Trembled, The (by
> Roe, Edward Payson, 1838-...
>
> It will be the weekend before I can do anything.
>
Hi Stephen,

many thanks again. Especially at the weekend and the following week I will have
no access to the net because I will spent a short holiday at a very rural part
of Germany, a very small village called Rech. They have a lot of red wine there,
but no (fast) internet-connections. Don't be sure, but I think I can hear your
sigh of relief that I will not bother you again so soon ;-)

So I can give this novel a try (over 250 pages after copying it from Project
Gutenberg to Word). At the moment I'm stuck with chapter III which is very hard
for a non native speaker. I really like to read english novels (mainly fantasy
like Feist, Wurts, Goodkind or Tolkien but also Doyle, Poe, Shakespeare or
Dickens to name some authors) but in this case, I could only skip the rest of
the chapter. But I think the topic is not so literally bounded to the book...

Thanks and regards,
Michael

[Stephen] Re: Not IRTC but Tina Chep [5395 days 4 hours and 33 minutes ago]

Thu, 30 Jun 2011 00:16:09 GMT

On 29/06/2011 8:37 PM, TawnyOwl wrote:

>
> Hi Stephen,
> thanks for the fast response. Usually the new topic is given short after the
> closing of the submissions as is stated in the "Tina Chep-Rules". I really hopy
> Thomas can solve his technical problems soon. Not for the topic but for himself.
> I only asked and I really will not press someone.
>
> Kind regrards,
> Michael.
>
>
>
Well at the moment the current voting is for Earth Trembled, The (by 
Roe, Edward Payson, 1838-...

It will be the weekend before I can do anything.



-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[TawnyOwl] Re: Not IRTC but Tina Chep [5395 days 9 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Jun 2011 19:40:00 GMT

Stephen <mcavoys_at@aoldotcom> wrote:
> On 28/06/2011 8:07 PM, TawnyOwl wrote:
> > Hi all around,
> >
> > since the bubble-topic-round is closed, I wonder why no new topic is given.
> >
>
> Thomas de Groot generally looks after this but he has been having PC &
> internet problems. I thought that the topic was generally announced at
> the same time as the winner. I'll check and if it is now I'll do the deed.
>
> --
> Regards
>      Stephen

Hi Stephen,
thanks for the fast response. Usually the new topic is given short after the
closing of the submissions as is stated in the "Tina Chep-Rules". I really hopy
Thomas can solve his technical problems soon. Not for the topic but for himself.
I only asked and I really will not press someone.

Kind regrards,
Michael.

[Stephen] Re: Not IRTC but Tina Chep [5396 days 3 hours and 41 minutes ago]

Wed, 29 Jun 2011 01:07:34 GMT

On 28/06/2011 8:07 PM, TawnyOwl wrote:
> Hi all around,
>
> since the bubble-topic-round is closed, I wonder why no new topic is given.
>

Thomas de Groot generally looks after this but he has been having PC & 
internet problems. I thought that the topic was generally announced at 
the same time as the winner. I'll check and if it is now I'll do the deed.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[TawnyOwl] Not IRTC but Tina Chep [5396 days 9 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:10:01 GMT

Hi all around,

since the bubble-topic-round is closed, I wonder why no new topic is given.

Regards,
Michael

[W0RLDBUILDER] Re: Bravo [5420 days 2 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Sun, 5 Jun 2011 02:10:01 GMT

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Troll detected!

[azynkron] Re: IRTC site [5438 days 22 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Tue, 17 May 2011 06:40:01 GMT

"Edouard" <pov### [at] edouardinfo> wrote:
> "Edouard" <pov### [at] edouardinfo> wrote:
>
> > David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
> >
> > > I volunteered my time for a period of about a year to re-develop the
> > > IRTC site since nobody else was stepping up to the plate.  If I was
> > > going to rewrite the site software, it would at least be in a language
> > > which I like and understand well.  That's why I chose Smalltalk.  If
> > > anyone else volunteers to take over the project and rewrite the code,
> > > you can use any language you wish.
>
> David has emailed me, and is going to set me up with the development environment
> for website. Once I've got it I'll take a look at how it works, and specifically
> investigate the session code to see if we can remove the problem that was
> causing the issues.
>
> A public bug tracker might also be a good idea.
>
> Cheers,
> Edouard.

How did it go with this?

As I understood it, it was one function that borked the site. Why not just
remove that function until further notice and launch the rest?

[Jim Henderson] Re: IRTC site [5509 days 3 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Tue, 8 Mar 2011 01:04:13 GMT

On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:25:23 -0500, Robert McGregor wrote:

> Optimistic take: maybe Fabien meant to type "My message was
> UNintentionally rude..." and just doesn't realize.

If my response and clipka's didn't highlight that he said he was 
intentionally rude adequately, I'd be quite surprised.

He's certainly had time to clarify and to apologise.

Jim

[Robert McGregor] Re: IRTC site [5509 days 14 hours and 19 minutes ago]

Mon, 7 Mar 2011 14:30:00 GMT

clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Am 05.03.2011 19:47, schrieb Fabien:
>
> > My message was intentionally rude, and I sincerely apologise
> > if I hurted you.
>
> People getting hurt is what's to be /expected/ from intentionally rude
> messages.
>
> Still waiting for an apology to the other people you hurt along the way.

So, still no apology for the others, eh?

Optimistic take: maybe Fabien meant to type "My message was UNintentionally
rude..." and just doesn't realize.

-------------------------------------------------
www.McGregorFineArt.com

[Fabien] Re: IRTC site [5509 days 18 hours and 52 minutes ago]

Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:57:24 GMT

Le 7/03/2011 07:24, clipka a écrit :

> ... making your offer depend on others weakens it quite a lot again. If you count on
/reliable/ support from others, it
> won't fly, as interruptions due to real-life issues are always a factor to be
reckoned with. Either it's "I'll be doing
> this, either way - anyone willing to help me is happily invited", or I'd expect
efforts to be doomed right from the start.

Asking other people to join is, precisely, a security in case of real-life
taking away precious time. I'm sure I can set something up alone in a few days,
but, if I go from 100% reliable to 80%, having 3 people able to offer 20%
reliability might fill the gap. Your formulation ("I'll be doing this..."),
though less formal, could do the trick, too.

Anyway, Edouard is taking a look at the existing stuff, so I won't interfere
right now with a "new site" hypothesis. I'll be doing it as some kind of
exercise, and will quietly tell about it once I've got something usable.

Fabien.

[Bruno Cabasson] Re: Bravo [5509 days 19 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:05:00 GMT

Wow, the minds are pretty hot and the pot is boiling!!

I am a bit sorry to see that something made by passionate, talented and
benevolent people, leads to a consumer's attitude.

If we support and help, instead of having this consumer's attitude, those people
are likely to bring things to a new golden age.

Bruno.

[clipka] Re: IRTC site [5509 days 22 hours and 19 minutes ago]

Mon, 7 Mar 2011 06:30:09 GMT

Am 06.03.2011 20:30, schrieb Edouard:

> A public bug tracker might also be a good idea.

Maybe we can use the POV-Ray flyspray bugtracker for that? It does 
support multiple projects after all, and is already up and running. I 
guess you'd need to contact Chris for that to get the necessary 
administrative access.

[clipka] Re: IRTC site [5509 days 22 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Mon, 7 Mar 2011 06:24:59 GMT

Am 05.03.2011 19:47, schrieb Fabien:

> My message was intentionally rude, and I sincerely apologise
> if I hurted you.

People getting hurt is what's to be /expected/ from intentionally rude 
messages.

Still waiting for an apology to the other people you hurt along the way.

> As a backup hypothesis, I volunteer to build a new site, with
> the help of other volunteers. Here's the plan :
> - right now (or ASAP), display a page announcing that something
> is being done, and launch a new round, ending May 31 (that's
> almost 3 months, might help get more competitors),
> topic is "How will I explain this to Dad ?".
> - before the end of March, set up the ability to browse old rounds
> - before the end of April, set up the ability to submit an entry
> (so sumbissions can start 1 month before deadline)
> - before the end of May, set up a voting system, test-driven by voting
> for the last round that hasn't been voted
> - once all is okay, vote for the new round

Now *that* is a message some three notches more constructive, but...

> If 3 people are joining, that's perfectly doable, IMO.

... making your offer depend on others weakens it quite a lot again. If 
you count on /reliable/ support from others, it won't fly, as 
interruptions due to real-life issues are always a factor to be reckoned 
with. Either it's "I'll be doing this, either way - anyone willing to 
help me is happily invited", or I'd expect efforts to be doomed right 
from the start.

[clipka] Re: Bravo [5509 days 22 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Mon, 7 Mar 2011 06:09:49 GMT

Am 05.03.2011 14:26, schrieb Fabien:

> Whoever (anonymous, so far) wrote the current www.irtc.org homepage,
> related or not to the current POV-Ray Team, is adopting the same
> irritating attitude that I describe (mainly : the piping is broken,
> we won't call a plumber, and we keep the keys of the house).
>
> And I'm linking both because I've seen the same attitude in POV-Ray
> making.

*HELLO?!?!*

You're writing to someone who is actively involved in this "POV-Ray 
making", and I will *not* let your statemend stand unchallenged.

I started using POV-Ray in September 2008 (after having toyed around 
with it some decade earlier). Back then, I only had a single-core 
machine, and 3.6 and MegaPOV were fine for my purposes. Some 2 months 
later though, I bought a quad-core system to set aside just for 
rendering - initially with the intention of running multiple instances 
of MegaPOV in parallel - and found that POV-Ray 3.7 would promise more 
speed than 3.6, if only it would run radiosity on multiple cores. It 
didn't, and the few development status reports that trickled in 
indicated that development was stalling, and radiosity was still way 
down on the dev team's priority list.

So in december, I wrote this newsgroup post in povray.beta-test:

http://news.povray.org/povray.beta-test/thread/%3Cweb.494c5db633949b3be71a54f80%40news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=358039&toff=350

To make a long story short: I was involved in the making of POV-Ray in 
no time flat, and got free hand in designing a way to make radiosity 
work with SMP (even including some architectural change to the rest of 
the code) and rid it of several design uglies. Since then, I went on to 
implement subsurface scattering (an idea that Chris Cason came up with), 
implemented a bunch of smaller features that I wanted to see in POV-Ray, 
gave gamma issues a thorough addressing because /I/ felt it important, 
and - of that I do take particular pride, and will not suffer having you 
slander those efforts - addressed virtually any reported bug that I felt 
capable of addressing.

 From what I have experienced since I first volunteered to get my hands 
dirty, there is no secrecy about POV-Ray; no closed circle of ivory 
tower developers; there is no resentment to accept help - to the 
contrary. There is just too much to do to waste time and energy on 
begging for help, because experience is that the resonance to such 
requests is pretty scant. So instead of suffering the frustration to be 
expected (or maybe even start whining and complaining, like /certain/ 
people do prefer instead of being constructive), the people involved 
just continue being as productive as they possibly can, and as their 
day-time jobs & families allow.


If you'd ask Le Forgeron, I'm pretty sure he'd have a similar story to 
tell. He, too, recently decided to get his hands dirty and become involved.


> The message on the homepage says it's a "software problem", nothing
> to do with closing voluntarily, whatever the reason ! And, in your
> hypothesis, there's a solution : HAND THE KEYS.

Yes. But the productive first step on your behalf should have been to 
*ask* for the keys yourself, instead of ranting that the keys hadn't 
been handed to anyone else. To whom, I ask you, should they have been 
given? Who stepped forward and volunteered to continue that business?

As for being a software problem vs. closing voluntarily, the one doesn't 
exclude the other: It probably is a software problem so severe that the 
maintainer of the site sees himself unable to fix it given his limited 
time & energy.

(Another note here: the current maintainer stepped up after a long 
desperate search for someone to revive the IRTC; there was no reason for 
him to assume that there would be anyone around just waiting to lend a 
hand or even take over the business)

> At some point, a single person wrote that "broken, don't care" homepage.
> It's that person I'm yelling at, asking that something is done, or
> handled to other volunteers !

Still you're also ranting about "POV-Ray" in general, and about the 
"attitude in POV-Ray making". It is *that* which I will not suffer.

And, to re-iterate: Instead of just building up steam and then 
exploding, you should have addressed that person with a suggestion to 
/help/ first.

Now, with that attitude of yours, I wonder whether that person would 
still be willing to hand the keys to /you/ - or if he did, whether any 
of his "customers" would be willing to deal with you. You managed to 
offend the current IRTC "owner", his "customers", the people providing 
the market infrastructure, and virtually anyone on the marketplace, in 
just a single posting. Bravo.

I guess it would be prudent for you to step down from your box at 
speakers' corner, and mumble a humble "sorry" to the offended crowd, 
before they stone you to death with ripe tomatoes and rotten eggs (be 
warned - that's a very long, humiliating way of dying). But that choice 
is up to you.

[Fabien] Re: IRTC site [5510 days 6 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Sun, 6 Mar 2011 22:03:34 GMT

Le 6/03/2011 20:30, Edouard a écrit :
>
> David has emailed me, and is going to set me up with the development environment
> for website. Once I've got it I'll take a look at how it works, and specifically
> investigate the session code to see if we can remove the problem that was
> causing the issues.

Great.

FWIW, I have a thought about these "sessions" problems.
Most parts of the IRTC site (round galleries, results,
homepage) doesn't need sessions, they can be "REST-ful",
and thus being bookmarkable and google-indexable without
further complication.

Submitting and voting, which should count for a small
part of pageviews (and thus memory usage), are the ones
which needs sessions. (and don't need to be bookmarked or
indexed)

 From what has already been said, session management through
URL appears to be a fundamental feature of Seaside.

What about keeping the existing Seaside code for submitting
and voting, and rewrite results, viewing and homepage using
another RESTful framework ?

BTW, I've just seen this on Wikipedia :
<<Compared to other web development frameworks, unspecified old version 
of Seaside is memory intensive. A single session could accumulate 
several hundred kilobytes of RAM. A later release of Seaside (2.8) 
significantly reduces this footprint (e.g. a formerly typical 200 KB 
footprint becomes 50 KB).>>

Fabien.

[Edouard] Re: IRTC site [5510 days 9 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Sun, 6 Mar 2011 19:35:00 GMT

"Edouard" <pov### [at] edouardinfo> wrote:

> David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
>
> > I volunteered my time for a period of about a year to re-develop the
> > IRTC site since nobody else was stepping up to the plate.  If I was
> > going to rewrite the site software, it would at least be in a language
> > which I like and understand well.  That's why I chose Smalltalk.  If
> > anyone else volunteers to take over the project and rewrite the code,
> > you can use any language you wish.

David has emailed me, and is going to set me up with the development environment
for website. Once I've got it I'll take a look at how it works, and specifically
investigate the session code to see if we can remove the problem that was
causing the issues.

A public bug tracker might also be a good idea.

Cheers,
Edouard.

[Jim Henderson] Re: IRTC site [5510 days 9 hours and 48 minutes ago]

Sun, 6 Mar 2011 19:00:31 GMT

On Sun, 06 Mar 2011 08:04:20 +0100, JÃ©rÃ´me M. Berger wrote:

>> Jim
> *plonk*

That's supposed to make me feel badly about calling out someone who's 
acting poorly?  Sorry, no dice.

It's one thing to say "hey, this is broken" in a polite way (as Christian 
did), and I can respect that approach.  But for Fabien to come in here 
and act the way he did and not to expect anyone to slap him for behaving 
poorly, sorry, that's not how it works.

(And yes, I do realise that you're calling *me* a troll by 'plonking' me 
- and I honestly have never understood why some people feel it's 
necessary to say that.  I've tried it, and felt stupid when I did it.)

Jim

["Jérôme M. Berger"] Re: IRTC site [5510 days 21 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Sun, 6 Mar 2011 07:04:20 GMT

Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Mar 2011 19:47:17 +0100, Fabien wrote:
> 
>> My message was intentionally rude
> 
> And that is why you are in fact a jackass.  The only way you know to 
> raise an issue is to piss people off.
> 
> There is absolutely nothing that pisses me off more than people who thi
nk 
> a community OWES them something, and when the community doesn't provide
 
> for those who feel so entitled, they are rude (intentionally or not) in
 
> order to get attention.
> 
> That is the purest definition of trolling.
> 
> Jim
*plonk*

-- 
mailto:jeb### [at] freefr
http://jeberger.free.fr
Jabber: jeb### [at] jabberfr

[Jim Henderson] Re: Bravo [5510 days 22 hours and 27 minutes ago]

Sun, 6 Mar 2011 06:21:36 GMT

On Sat, 05 Mar 2011 11:15:32 +0100, Fabien wrote:

> No, it doesn't meet my standard of expecting a very simple website to be
> up and running continuously, neither my standard of either coping with a
> problem or asking for help. That's precisely what a community is about,
> and the current www.irtc.org homepage is quite anti-community, IMO.

As is coming in and intentionally being rude to the community instead of 
being polite and asking "so what's going on here and how can I help make 
things better?"

That would have been a much more constructive way to get things going 
again.

Christian did a much better job of expressing the exact same sentiment.  
You'll notice that nobody is criticizing him for agreeing with you.

I honestly don't particularly care at this point about who you are or 
what you have contributed up until this point.  You lost all credibility 
when you started attacking those who had volunteered their time to fix 
things and then had other life commitments come up.

Jim

[Jim Henderson] Re: IRTC site [5510 days 22 hours and 32 minutes ago]

Sun, 6 Mar 2011 06:16:55 GMT

On Sat, 05 Mar 2011 19:47:17 +0100, Fabien wrote:

> My message was intentionally rude

And that is why you are in fact a jackass.  The only way you know to 
raise an issue is to piss people off.

There is absolutely nothing that pisses me off more than people who think 
a community OWES them something, and when the community doesn't provide 
for those who feel so entitled, they are rude (intentionally or not) in 
order to get attention.

That is the purest definition of trolling.

Jim

[Jim Henderson] Re: IRTC site [5510 days 22 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Sun, 6 Mar 2011 06:14:41 GMT

On Sat, 05 Mar 2011 18:42:37 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 05/03/2011 6:30 PM, Robert McGregor wrote:
>> It's a real drag losing the IRTC into the void again, but thanks for
>> that explanation, David. I, for one, completely understand where you're
>> coming from.
>>
>> Hats off to you for all the hard work you put into it!
>>
> Hear, hear.

Yes, indeed!

Jim

[Edouard] Re: IRTC site [5511 days 8 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Sat, 5 Mar 2011 20:40:00 GMT

David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:

First off, thank-you for the effort you put in - you recreated the site when
there was nothing, and it sparked a new round of artwork from the community.

> I volunteered my time for a period of about a year to re-develop the
> IRTC site since nobody else was stepping up to the plate.  If I was
> going to rewrite the site software, it would at least be in a language
> which I like and understand well.  That's why I chose Smalltalk.  If
> anyone else volunteers to take over the project and rewrite the code,
> you can use any language you wish.
>
> The project became more complicated when Chris Cason expressed the
> desire to make the pages bookmarkable and google-indexable. The site was
> developed in Seaside which normally puts session keys into the URLS.
> Making the pages bookmarkable changed this policy and made the coding
> harder.  It also meant that users browsing the site without logging in
> used a new session for every page hit.

Seaside code is a thing of beauty, but, honestly, I've never bought into the URL
scheme (or the "breaks the back button" justification). I was looking at
AIDA/Web recently, and I like it's model and URL scheme much better, but you
lose the html abstraction and mature jquery etc libraries that Seaside
provides...

> After finally making the site live and struggling to correct problems
> amidst much complaining from the community, we got the software stable
> except for one nagging problem. The web sessions are always set to
> time-out.  In order to give people enough time to submit images without
> timing out, we had to increase the timeout to 30 minutes.  But, to allow
> the site to be navigable without logging in and to be bookmarkable,
> every page view created a new session.  The combination of these two
> factors meant that lots of hits by users who weren't logged in would
> create lots of sessions and eat up lots of memory.  The application was
> chewing up too much memory and was causing problems with the server.

So that's the place to concentrate on - I can take a look at that at least.

> I'm now super busy with several contracts at once and have no time to
> volunteer any more to the IRTC.

I completely understand. I've got some spare time right now, but it won't
necessarily last!

> Now, if anyone out there wants to take it over, be my guest.  I can make
> all of the Smalltalk code available to you if you wish.

Can you mail me a fileout or Monticello snapshot? I'm using Pharo here.

> I tried, folks, but the rewards were too small, the effort was too high,
> and the complaints from people not satisfied with the efforts we put in
> were too annoying.

That's OK - I have a high tolerance for complaints, and if I am going to put the
time in, I'll post with progress, and be as upfront as I can about when I have
no time on it.

> David Buck

Cheers,
Edouard.

[Fabien] Re: IRTC site [5511 days 9 hours and 57 minutes ago]

Sat, 5 Mar 2011 18:51:31 GMT

Le 05/03/2011 18:35, David Buck a écrit :
> I understand your frustration.  Here's my perspective:

Thank you so much for these insights.

My message was intentionally rude, and I sincerely apologise
if I hurted you. I understand well that finding time to do such
work is hard, that's also why I've been quiet these years.

Edouard, in a reply to me, said that maybe he could do something
for the existing software. Let's try.

As a backup hypothesis, I volunteer to build a new site, with
the help of other volunteers. Here's the plan :
- right now (or ASAP), display a page announcing that something
is being done, and launch a new round, ending May 31 (that's
almost 3 months, might help get more competitors),
topic is "How will I explain this to Dad ?".
- before the end of March, set up the ability to browse old rounds
- before the end of April, set up the ability to submit an entry
   (so sumbissions can start 1 month before deadline)
- before the end of May, set up a voting system, test-driven by voting
   for the last round that hasn't been voted
- once all is okay, vote for the new round

All this using plain MySQL-PHP structure (no framework). This requires
working knowledge of MySQL, PHP, HTML, CSS. But someone just familiar
with HTML and CSS could provide great help.

If 3 people are joining, that's perfectly doable, IMO.

Anyone wanting to jump in ?

Fabien.

[Stephen] Re: IRTC site [5511 days 10 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Sat, 5 Mar 2011 18:42:53 GMT

On 05/03/2011 6:30 PM, Robert McGregor wrote:
> It's a real drag losing the IRTC into the void again, but thanks for that
> explanation, David. I, for one, completely understand where you're coming from.
>
> Hats off to you for all the hard work you put into it!
>
Hear, hear.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[Robert McGregor] Re: IRTC site [5511 days 10 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Sat, 5 Mar 2011 18:35:01 GMT

It's a real drag losing the IRTC into the void again, but thanks for that
explanation, David. I, for one, completely understand where you're coming from.

Hats off to you for all the hard work you put into it!

-------------------------------------------------
www.McGregorFineArt.com

[Fabien] Re: Bravo [5511 days 10 hours and 19 minutes ago]

Sat, 5 Mar 2011 18:29:57 GMT

Le 03/03/2011 11:21, Edouard a écrit :
> Fabien<fab### [at] gmailcom>  wrote:
>
>> How did you guys MANAGE to get to this situation ?
>>
>> Back to the IRTC, the choice of an obscure Smalltalk-based*
>> framework, which only ten people in the world are
>> familiar with, was a recipe for disaster.
>
> I'd be happy to volunteer to fix it. I know Smalltalk, and have used Seaside a
> bit.
>
> Edouard.
>
>

Now that David Buck has expressed that he would let someone try to
fix the stuff, can you contact him and see what you can do ?

Fabien.

[David Buck] IRTC site [5511 days 11 hours and 13 minutes ago]

Sat, 5 Mar 2011 17:35:49 GMT

I understand your frustration.  Here's my perspective:

I volunteered my time for a period of about a year to re-develop the 
IRTC site since nobody else was stepping up to the plate.  If I was 
going to rewrite the site software, it would at least be in a language 
which I like and understand well.  That's why I chose Smalltalk.  If 
anyone else volunteers to take over the project and rewrite the code, 
you can use any language you wish.

The project became more complicated when Chris Cason expressed the 
desire to make the pages bookmarkable and google-indexable. The site was 
developed in Seaside which normally puts session keys into the URLS. 
Making the pages bookmarkable changed this policy and made the coding 
harder.  It also meant that users browsing the site without logging in 
used a new session for every page hit.

After finally making the site live and struggling to correct problems 
amidst much complaining from the community, we got the software stable 
except for one nagging problem. The web sessions are always set to 
time-out.  In order to give people enough time to submit images without 
timing out, we had to increase the timeout to 30 minutes.  But, to allow 
the site to be navigable without logging in and to be bookmarkable, 
every page view created a new session.  The combination of these two 
factors meant that lots of hits by users who weren't logged in would 
create lots of sessions and eat up lots of memory.  The application was 
chewing up too much memory and was causing problems with the server.

I'm now super busy with several contracts at once and have no time to 
volunteer any more to the IRTC.  On top of that, the number of 
submissions had dropped to about 6 per competition which meant that 
every submission won something (which is kind of meaningless).  We felt 
that the lack of interest and the memory issue was too much to keep the 
application running.

Now, if anyone out there wants to take it over, be my guest.  I can make 
all of the Smalltalk code available to you if you wish.  You can also 
re-write it in PHP or any other language you like.  I just can't spend 
more time on it because I'm already too busy working on other stuff.

I tried, folks, but the rewards were too small, the effort was too high, 
and the complaints from people not satisfied with the efforts we put in 
were too annoying.

I'd be happy to help anyone take over, but my volunteer time on this 
project is done.

David Buck

[Robert McGregor] Re: Bravo [5511 days 13 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Sat, 5 Mar 2011 15:15:01 GMT

Fabien <fab### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> At some point, a single person wrote that "broken, don't care" homepage.
> It's that person I'm yelling at, asking that something is done, or
> handled to other volunteers !
>
> Fabien.

Well, I'm not sure who wrote the message on that home page, but Chris Cason did
say he'd try and sort it all out after the 3.7 release, so there's still hope:

http://news.povray.org/4d39775c@news.povray.org

And that means Chris could get Edouard set up with whatever he needs too :)
Progress!

Cheers,
Rob

-------------------------------------------------
www.McGregorFineArt.com

[Fabien] Re: Bravo [5511 days 15 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Sat, 5 Mar 2011 13:28:47 GMT

Le 4/03/2011 0:00, Christian Froeschlin a écrit :
> Fabien wrote:
>
>  > How did you guys MANAGE to get to this situation ?
>
> I realize you've probably built up some frustration
> until it exploded, but it's usually not good idea to post
> publicly in the heat of the moment.
>
>> After the "admins are gone, pschiiiit", now it's
>> a "software issue", which you don't EVEN consider
>> to fix.
>
> I can somewhat relate to this sentiment. It's a bit
> strange to spend a year rebuilding this and engaging
> the community in discussion and testing and then take
> it down with such a vague reason and no perspective.
> I'd go so far as to say it is a bit disrespectful to
> a community that I'm sure would be supportive and
> constructive whatever the actual problem is.

You are more diplomatic than I, but, yes, that's the point.

Fabien.

[Fabien] Re: Bravo [5511 days 15 hours and 23 minutes ago]

Sat, 5 Mar 2011 13:26:23 GMT

Le 5/03/2011 1:15, clipka a écrit :
>
> Apparently you didn't even bother to inform yourself properly about the
> organizational structures around POV-Ray and the IRTC.

See my reply to Jim Henderson to see how much I've been implied into this.

> I'm not sure about the roots of the IRTC, but the recent "revival" was
> /not/ run by the organization that owns the software name "POV-Ray" - it
> was run by an individual from the community, for the community; all the
> "POV-Ray organization" had to do with it was that it supported the
> project with server space and communication channels (there is a reason,
> for instance, that the IRTC newsgroups are not named "povray.*", but
> "irtc.*").

Whoever (anonymous, so far) wrote the current www.irtc.org homepage,
related or not to the current POV-Ray Team, is adopting the same
irritating attitude that I describe (mainly : the piping is broken,
we won't call a plumber, and we keep the keys of the house).

And I'm linking both because I've seen the same attitude in POV-Ray
making.

> So what you see is indeed /not/ the result of a cathedral approach at
> all, but to the contrary that of a bazaar: A shop has closed down
> because it didn't have enough customers, not enough employees, the wrong
> quality of goods, or whatever - it was /not/ a decision of some high
> priest to discontinue it, but of the person who had been running the shop.

The message on the homepage says it's a "software problem", nothing
to do with closing voluntarily, whatever the reason ! And, in your
hypothesis, there's a solution : HAND THE KEYS.

> Your problem is actually that you apparently /want/ a cathedral, where
> you can just go to and receive something, and if you don't get what you
> need you can blame it on the priests. A bazaar isn't that easy for the
> customers: They have to go round and ask where they can get things; they
> may have to invest something to get them; and some things may not be for
> offer even when they're badly needed. And last not least there's no
> single person or organization you can blame when something doesn't run
> smoothly.

At some point, a single person wrote that "broken, don't care" homepage.
It's that person I'm yelling at, asking that something is done, or
handled to other volunteers !

Fabien.

[Fabien] Re: Bravo [5511 days 18 hours and 33 minutes ago]

Sat, 5 Mar 2011 10:15:32 GMT

Le 3/03/2011 22:55, Jim Henderson a Ã©crit :
> On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:12:41 +0100, Fabien wrote:
>
>> How did you guys MANAGE to get to this situation ?
>
> Wow, what a troll you are.  Something maintained by members of the
> community for the community and it doesn't meet your standards.

No, it doesn't meet my standard of expecting a very simple website
to be up and running continuously, neither my standard of either
coping with a problem or asking for help. That's precisely what
a community is about, and the current www.irtc.org homepage is quite
anti-community, IMO.

About who I am, I am the author of this :
http://www.povcomp.com/entries/191.php

...I've spent countless hours many years ago helping people,
making objects, macros, demo scenes, testing new stuff. I am
the author of the default demo scene which can be run afer
POV-Ray's installation, the one with the bicuits and tea cup
(and I'm not glad that it's still there these days, after
ten years it looks pretty dated, there are enough people out
here that could make something more fresh and technically advanced)

> Instead of being a jackass about it, how about offering to pitch in and
> help rather than just heap criticism after criticism on the site?

This was not meant to offer help, but really to express how much
I'm pissed off by what's happening.

> You say "any rookie using PHP could do it in two days, including me" but
> I sure as hell didn't see you step up and offer it.  Instead you decided
> to act like a jerk and criticise.

Watch this space.

Fabien.

[Fabien] Re: Bravo [5511 days 19 hours and 45 minutes ago]

Sat, 5 Mar 2011 09:04:26 GMT

Le 3/03/2011 18:45, Trevor G Quayle a écrit :
> Fabien<fab### [at] gmailcom>  wrote:
>
>> The "new" IRTC literally sucked, quality-wise, (the images,
>> not the site), compared to what was produced some years
>> ago.
>
> While you may have some points worth arguing regarding maintaining of the IRTC
> site, I think it's a bit harsh to lay such criticism on the images in the newer
> contest site (I assume you refer to the TINA CheP).

I was referring to www.irtc.org. For the rest, see my reply to
Robert McGregor.

> Would you criticize a 5 year old about his crude drawing of a person and tell
> him it sucks?  Perhaps one day that 5 year old will be Van Gogh, having learned
> and developed far beyond that initial crude drawing.

I'm not bashing a 5-year old future Van Gogh, I'm talking about a
talented 10-years old which stops drawing for three years, and is
less talented at 13 than (s)he was at 10.

Fabien.

[Fabien] Re: Bravo [5511 days 19 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Sat, 5 Mar 2011 09:00:14 GMT

Le 3/03/2011 17:55, Robert McGregor a écrit :
> Fabien<fab### [at] gmailcom>  wrote:
>> The "new" IRTC literally sucked, quality-wise, (the images,
>> not the site), compared to what was produced some years
>> ago.
>
> Ouch.
>
> Well, I personally don't think my images sucked too hard in comparison to the
> "old" IRTC (but I suppose I'm biased).

Sorry if I appeared to say that all images were bad. Of course not.
But the average level of the renewed competition (and I'm definitely
talking about the irtc.org stuff, not anything else) was very low
compared to what it was before the Big Blackout.

The problem is not the low end of the lot, beginners are fully
welcome, and I've done my part of constructive critiscism to them,
in the past.

It took years, from IRTC creation, to get a hive of talents, which
resulted in rounds with a good number of good-to-excellent images.
Three years of interruption destroyed that, and the higher end of
last competition was just a handful of good-to-very-good, not enough
to call a "waaah" after viewing a round. Given the CPUs and memory
ressources we have these days, it's a pity that the recent rounds
were of a lower quality than three years before.

So, unless IRTC is killed once and for all* (which seems an acceptable
option rather than the hiatus), a prolonged absence will cause
harm again to the quality level, which only a continuous effort
can improve. Something SHOULD be done, and that's why the "not
to be fixed anytime soon" message instead of a call for help is
so irritating.

(* : meaning the IRTC role must be officially  _handed over_ to
  other(s) competition(s))

Fabien.

[Fabien] Re: Bravo [5511 days 20 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Sat, 5 Mar 2011 08:25:01 GMT

Le 3/03/2011 12:06, Stephen a écrit :
> On 03/03/2011 7:12 AM, Fabien wrote:
>> How did you guys MANAGE to get to this situation ?
>
> You could, if you want a competition, you could always enter the TC-RTC.
>
> http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/

Thanks for the info, being away these years I didn't knew about it.

To the (anonymous, so far) person who wrote that incredible
current irtc.org homepage : did you know about that competition ?
If so, why didn't you AT LEAST put a link to it ?

Fabien.

[Fabien] Re: Bravo [5511 days 20 hours and 29 minutes ago]

Sat, 5 Mar 2011 08:20:21 GMT

Le 3/03/2011 11:21, Edouard a écrit :
>
> I'd be happy to volunteer to fix it. I know Smalltalk, and have used Seaside a
> bit.

I hope someone in charge (i.e. someone who has the power to mess with
the server linked to www.irtc.org) reads this and contact you.

Fabien.

[Jim Henderson] Re: Bravo [5512 days 1 hour and 2 minutes ago]

Sat, 5 Mar 2011 03:46:48 GMT

On Sat, 05 Mar 2011 01:15:42 +0100, clipka wrote:

> So here you are, standing in the middle of the market place, crying out
> aloud that this whole bazaar you call POV-Ray makes for a shabby
> cathedral. Duh.

Now that will get an enthusiastic "Bravo!" from me - I wish I'd written 
your response instead of mine. :-)

Jim

[clipka] Re: Bravo [5512 days 4 hours and 33 minutes ago]

Sat, 5 Mar 2011 00:15:45 GMT

Am 03.03.2011 08:12, schrieb Fabien:
> How did you guys MANAGE to get to this situation ?
>
> After the "admins are gone, pschiiiit", now it's
> a "software issue", which you don't EVEN consider
> to fix.
>
>  From the "bazaar or cathedral", you once chose the
> cathedral, and due to the useless secrecy and disdain
> for newcomers that could help, now that's a shabby
> and ruined cathedral ! I'm talking of POV-Ray, there,
> the IRTC being just the most visible victim of that
> incredible attitude.

Apparently you didn't even bother to inform yourself properly about the 
organizational structures around POV-Ray and the IRTC.

I'm not sure about the roots of the IRTC, but the recent "revival" was 
/not/ run by the organization that owns the software name "POV-Ray" - it 
was run by an individual from the community, for the community; all the 
"POV-Ray organization" had to do with it was that it supported the 
project with server space and communication channels (there is a reason, 
for instance, that the IRTC newsgroups are not named "povray.*", but 
"irtc.*").

So what you see is indeed /not/ the result of a cathedral approach at 
all, but to the contrary that of a bazaar: A shop has closed down 
because it didn't have enough customers, not enough employees, the wrong 
quality of goods, or whatever - it was /not/ a decision of some high 
priest to discontinue it, but of the person who had been running the shop.

Your problem is actually that you apparently /want/ a cathedral, where 
you can just go to and receive something, and if you don't get what you 
need you can blame it on the priests. A bazaar isn't that easy for the 
customers: They have to go round and ask where they can get things; they 
may have to invest something to get them; and some things may not be for 
offer even when they're badly needed. And last not least there's no 
single person or organization you can blame when something doesn't run 
smoothly.

So here you are, standing in the middle of the market place, crying out 
aloud that this whole bazaar you call POV-Ray makes for a shabby 
cathedral. Duh.

[Christian Froeschlin] Re: Bravo [5513 days 5 hours and 48 minutes ago]

Thu, 3 Mar 2011 23:00:59 GMT

Fabien wrote:

 > How did you guys MANAGE to get to this situation ?

I realize you've probably built up some frustration
until it exploded, but it's usually not good idea to post
publicly in the heat of the moment.

> After the "admins are gone, pschiiiit", now it's
> a "software issue", which you don't EVEN consider
> to fix.

I can somewhat relate to this sentiment. It's a bit
strange to spend a year rebuilding this and engaging
the community in discussion and testing and then take
it down with such a vague reason and no perspective.
I'd go so far as to say it is a bit disrespectful to
a community that I'm sure would be supportive and
constructive whatever the actual problem is.

[Jim Henderson] Re: Bravo [5513 days 6 hours and 54 minutes ago]

Thu, 3 Mar 2011 21:55:15 GMT

On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:12:41 +0100, Fabien wrote:

> How did you guys MANAGE to get to this situation ?

Wow, what a troll you are.  Something maintained by members of the 
community for the community and it doesn't meet your standards.

Let me grab the world's smallest violin and start playing it for you.

Instead of being a jackass about it, how about offering to pitch in and 
help rather than just heap criticism after criticism on the site?

You say "any rookie using PHP could do it in two days, including me" but 
I sure as hell didn't see you step up and offer it.  Instead you decided 
to act like a jerk and criticise.

Instead of stepping up, you stepped on.  Bravo indeed - WELL DONE, Fabien.

Jim

[Stephen] Re: Bravo [5513 days 8 hours and 20 minutes ago]

Thu, 3 Mar 2011 20:29:27 GMT

On 03/03/2011 8:14 PM, Trevor G Quayle wrote:
> Stephen<mcavoys_at@aoldotcom>  wrote:
>> On 03/03/2011 5:45 PM, Trevor G Quayle wrote:
>>> Fabien<fab### [at] gmailcom>   wrote:
>>>
>>>> The "new" IRTC literally sucked, quality-wise, (the images,
>>>> not the site), compared to what was produced some years
>>>> ago.
>>>
>>> While you may have some points worth arguing regarding maintaining of the IRTC
>>> site, I think it's a bit harsh to lay such criticism on the images in the newer
>>> contest site (I assume you refer to the TINA CheP).
>>
>> I read it that Fabien was referring to the new IRTC site.
>
> Sorry, I was unaware that the IRTC had been running again recently, and assumed
> he was referring to images at TC-RTC that you had set up in its place.
>

No apology required.

> Other than that correction, my comments still stand.
>

No matter who Fabien was talking about your comments are valid and welcome.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[Trevor G Quayle] Re: Bravo [5513 days 8 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Thu, 3 Mar 2011 20:15:01 GMT

Stephen <mcavoys_at@aoldotcom> wrote:
> On 03/03/2011 5:45 PM, Trevor G Quayle wrote:
> > Fabien<fab### [at] gmailcom>  wrote:
> >
> >> The "new" IRTC literally sucked, quality-wise, (the images,
> >> not the site), compared to what was produced some years
> >> ago.
> >
> > While you may have some points worth arguing regarding maintaining of the IRTC
> > site, I think it's a bit harsh to lay such criticism on the images in the newer
> > contest site (I assume you refer to the TINA CheP).
>
> I read it that Fabien was referring to the new IRTC site.

Sorry, I was unaware that the IRTC had been running again recently, and assumed
he was referring to images at TC-RTC that you had set up in its place.

Other than that correction, my comments still stand.

-tgq

[Stephen] Re: Bravo [5513 days 9 hours and 56 minutes ago]

Thu, 3 Mar 2011 18:53:19 GMT

On 03/03/2011 5:45 PM, Trevor G Quayle wrote:
> Fabien<fab### [at] gmailcom>  wrote:
>
>> The "new" IRTC literally sucked, quality-wise, (the images,
>> not the site), compared to what was produced some years
>> ago.
>
> While you may have some points worth arguing regarding maintaining of the IRTC
> site, I think it's a bit harsh to lay such criticism on the images in the newer
> contest site (I assume you refer to the TINA CheP).

I read it that Fabien was referring to the new IRTC site.
But since you mention TC-RTC may I say that it was set up as a temporary 
stand in for the stalled IRTC by the late Steve Paget. It is a 
commercial site now maintained by Thomas de Groot and myself. This costs 
money and it is for the benefit of our community.
Lately there has been a drop off in the number of entries which IMO is a 
shame. But maybe if we can rally round it will be an outlet for our 
creative, competitive spirit. The current topic is “History and Practice 
of the Art of Photography” which can mean what you want it to mean, it 
closes on the 15th of April.
If anyone has any ideas for the topics or any other constructive ideas 
the will be welcomed.

> The people working on the
> images generally have worked hard at learning the program [POVRAy] and using it,
> whether or not their images can be classed to a 'high-quality' standard.
> Perhaps some of the preious entrants that had developed great expertise in
> POV-Ray have been absent (for whatever their reasons), but that is no reason to
> casually sling such unconstructive, anbased and blanket criticism at those who
> have participated.  They are there to learn the craft and present what they have
> done, and perhaps learn something from it.  That has been (generally) the whole
> spirit of POV-Ray and the community since it's inception (I have been using and
> present here intermittently since 1994, there others that are even longer).  The
> spirit is for everyone to learn and contribute, through praise encouragement and
> constructive criticism of what they have achieved so far.  This is one of the
> best and consistent communities I have ever run across.
>

Well said.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[Trevor G Quayle] Re: Bravo [5513 days 10 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Thu, 3 Mar 2011 17:50:00 GMT

Fabien <fab### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> The "new" IRTC literally sucked, quality-wise, (the images,
> not the site), compared to what was produced some years
> ago.

While you may have some points worth arguing regarding maintaining of the IRTC
site, I think it's a bit harsh to lay such criticism on the images in the newer
contest site (I assume you refer to the TINA CheP).  The people working on the
images generally have worked hard at learning the program [POVRAy] and using it,
whether or not their images can be classed to a 'high-quality' standard.
Perhaps some of the preious entrants that had developed great expertise in
POV-Ray have been absent (for whatever their reasons), but that is no reason to
casually sling such unconstructive, anbased and blanket criticism at those who
have participated.  They are there to learn the craft and present what they have
done, and perhaps learn something from it.  That has been (generally) the whole
spirit of POV-Ray and the community since it's inception (I have been using and
present here intermittently since 1994, there others that are even longer).  The
spirit is for everyone to learn and contribute, through praise encouragement and
constructive criticism of what they have achieved so far.  This is one of the
best and consistent communities I have ever run across.

Would you criticize a 5 year old about his crude drawing of a person and tell
him it sucks?  Perhaps one day that 5 year old will be Van Gogh, having learned
and developed far beyond that initial crude drawing.

Say what you need to regarding the running of the IRTC, and those responsible
can handle that, but please refrain from slagging the artists.  If you have
specific constructive criticism on how they can improve their work, it would be
much more welcome and helpful.

Thanks

-tgq

[Robert McGregor] Re: Bravo [5513 days 11 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Thu, 3 Mar 2011 17:00:01 GMT

Fabien <fab### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> The "new" IRTC literally sucked, quality-wise, (the images,
> not the site), compared to what was produced some years
> ago.

Ouch.

Well, I personally don't think my images sucked too hard in comparison to the
"old" IRTC (but I suppose I'm biased).

-------------------------------------------------
www.McGregorFineArt.com

[Stephen] Re: Bravo [5513 days 17 hours and 42 minutes ago]

Thu, 3 Mar 2011 11:06:44 GMT

On 03/03/2011 7:12 AM, Fabien wrote:
> How did you guys MANAGE to get to this situation ?

You could, if you want a competition, you could always enter the TC-RTC.

http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

[Edouard] Re: Bravo [5513 days 18 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Thu, 3 Mar 2011 10:25:00 GMT

Fabien <fab### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> How did you guys MANAGE to get to this situation ?
>
> Back to the IRTC, the choice of an obscure Smalltalk-based*
> framework, which only ten people in the world are
> familiar with, was a recipe for disaster.

I'd be happy to volunteer to fix it. I know Smalltalk, and have used Seaside a
bit.

Edouard.

[Warp] Re: Bravo [5513 days 20 hours and 16 minutes ago]

Thu, 3 Mar 2011 08:33:09 GMT

Fabien <fab### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> How did you guys MANAGE to get to this situation ?

  Thanks for your insightful comments. They really helped making things
much better.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

[Fabien] Bravo [5513 days 21 hours and 32 minutes ago]

Thu, 3 Mar 2011 07:16:48 GMT

How did you guys MANAGE to get to this situation ?

After the "admins are gone, pschiiiit", now it's
a "software issue", which you don't EVEN consider
to fix.

 From the "bazaar or cathedral", you once chose the
cathedral, and due to the useless secrecy and disdain
for newcomers that could help, now that's a shabby
and ruined cathedral ! I'm talking of POV-Ray, there,
the IRTC being just the most visible victim of that
incredible attitude.

Back to the IRTC, the choice of an obscure Smalltalk-based*
framework, which only ten people in the world are
familiar with, was a recipe for disaster. If only it
allowed a quick rebuild, but, no, it took more than
a year to get something up. Any rookie using PHP could
do it in two days, including me** ! And there are millions
of people that can fix PHP, if needed.

(* don't get me wrong, I'm a Ruby lover, and I know
how beautiful is Smalltalk, but for a rather simple
rendering competition site, efficiency matters most)

(** I did this in seven days :
  http://le.royaumedad.es
  php-mysql-based record collection showcase, including
  online encoding of new items)

How bad would it hurt to make a public call to get either
someone to fix the stuff, or a fast rewrite in PHP ?

The "new" IRTC literally sucked, quality-wise, (the images,
not the site), compared to what was produced some years
ago.  Either you should have the guts to pronounce IRTC
dead once and for all, or make that public call to get it
back within less than a month, so it could maybe evolve
again, instead of stepping back like it did.

[TawnyOwl] Re: Bulk download via FTP, can't find it anymore [5514 days 8 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Wed, 2 Mar 2011 20:05:01 GMT

"Hotaru" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Hi, I want to to download all still images (and if possible the animations) of
> the IRTC. I remember that sometime in 2004 I did this already via FTP. The old
> IRTC page, which is thankfully still online (just love the old layout btw), also
> still refers to FTP. But I simply can not find the FTP site anymore, and the
> link on the old pages is not valid anymore (tried on different days).
>
> Where can I download all still in bulk?

See my posting in the next thread "IRTC Server Problem" from 11. Jan. 2011. You
can find the old content at
ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/graphics/irtc

regards,
owl

[TawnyOwl] Re: IRTC Server Problem [5521 days 8 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Wed, 23 Feb 2011 20:10:01 GMT

At the moment the given link - if viewable at all - shows only the winners of
the contests (inclusive the technical, artistic and concept merits). If you are
interested in all of the contributions before the hiatus, you can find them all
at a ftp-mirror at the university of Erlangen, Germany. Not so convenient of
course, but they are all there:
ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/graphics/irtc

Regards,
Old Owl

[Chris Cason] Re: IRTC Server Problem [5554 days 16 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Fri, 21 Jan 2011 12:09:00 GMT

On 13/01/2011 09:30, Robert McGregor wrote:
> Well, I see that there's a new message on the IRTC site today:
> 
> "Unfortunately due to some software issues, the IRTC is unavailable.
> It is not likely that this will be fixed anytime soon. We will, however,
> endeavour to provide a means to access the content. In the meantime, the
> old (pre-2007) IRTC content is available"
> 
> That doesn't sound good at all...  The voting was completed for the NOV/DEC 2010
> round (topic: Violence), but what were the results?
> 
> I put in many long nights on my entry "Arena"
> [http://www.McGregorFineArt.com/competitions.asp#Arena], so just wondering...
> David? Anyone?

We'll get the results sorted if possible (I think it will be), and will
also try to get the full content of the new competition rounds up as static
pages. I'm swamped with work though, and currently the POV-Ray release
cycle has to take priority. Feel free to email me with a prod if it's not
sorted out within a few weeks.

-- Chris

[TawnyOwl] Re: IRTC Server Problem [5555 days 7 hours and 9 minutes ago]

Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:40:00 GMT

"Robert McGregor" <rob### [at] mcgregorfineartcom> wrote:
> Well, I see that there's a new message on the IRTC site today:
>
> "Unfortunately due to some software issues, the IRTC is unavailable.
> It is not likely that this will be fixed anytime soon. We will, however,
> endeavour to provide a means to access the content. In the meantime, the
> old (pre-2007) IRTC content is available"
>
> That doesn't sound good at all...  The voting was completed for the NOV/DEC 2010
> round (topic: Violence), but what were the results?
>
> I put in many long nights on my entry "Arena"
> [http://www.McGregorFineArt.com/competitions.asp#Arena], so just wondering...
> David? Anyone?
>
> Thanks,
> Rob
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> www.McGregorFineArt.com

The above mentioned message is not visible from all systems. I have tried with
three different systems to reach the IRTC-website and only my newest (1 week
working) had displayed this message. On the older systems I got only the
information that the IRTC is broken, down, DNs unavailable or something like
that. So I assume a ip4-ip6-conflict which can produce such results, as read
recently. Sorry for your effort on "Arena", but I hope they will prolong this
session. It's a great picture depicting the cruel aspects of the roman culture.
I hope I can depict some other aspects of this culture within some months. as a
beginner with POV it will take some time for my rural villa rustica I plan.

So long,
Old Owl

[Robert McGregor] Re: IRTC Server Problem [5563 days 6 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Wed, 12 Jan 2011 22:35:00 GMT

Well, I see that there's a new message on the IRTC site today:

"Unfortunately due to some software issues, the IRTC is unavailable.
It is not likely that this will be fixed anytime soon. We will, however,
endeavour to provide a means to access the content. In the meantime, the
old (pre-2007) IRTC content is available"

That doesn't sound good at all...  The voting was completed for the NOV/DEC 2010
round (topic: Violence), but what were the results?

I put in many long nights on my entry "Arena"
[http://www.McGregorFineArt.com/competitions.asp#Arena], so just wondering...
David? Anyone?

Thanks,
Rob

-------------------------------------------------
www.McGregorFineArt.com

[azynkron] Re: IRTC Server Problem [5563 days 15 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Wed, 12 Jan 2011 13:25:00 GMT

"Robert McGregor" <rob### [at] mcgregorfineartcom> wrote:
> Just wondering what's going on with the IRTC website - it seems to go down a lot
> with the message:
>
> "Service Temporarily Unavailable
> The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance
> downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later."
>
> It's been like this for many days now, and I also get this message randomly from
> time to time. The site/server seems pretty unstable... does anyone know why?
>
> -Rob
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> www.McGregorFineArt.com

I was thinking the same.
I mean, if it's gone, it's gone and we might as well get notice about it, right?

/Stefan

[Robert McGregor] IRTC Server Problem [5564 days 5 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Tue, 11 Jan 2011 23:00:00 GMT

Just wondering what's going on with the IRTC website - it seems to go down a lot
with the message:

"Service Temporarily Unavailable
The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance
downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later."

It's been like this for many days now, and I also get this message randomly from
time to time. The site/server seems pretty unstable... does anyone know why?

-Rob

-------------------------------------------------
www.McGregorFineArt.com

[Hotaru] Bulk download via FTP, can't find it anymore [5620 days 15 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:15:01 GMT

Hi, I want to to download all still images (and if possible the animations) of
the IRTC. I remember that sometime in 2004 I did this already via FTP. The old
IRTC page, which is thankfully still online (just love the old layout btw), also
still refers to FTP. But I simply can not find the FTP site anymore, and the
link on the old pages is not valid anymore (tried on different days).

Where can I download all still in bulk?

[H Karsten] Re: General Question [5729 days 23 hours and 34 minutes ago]

Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:15:09 GMT

Thanx!

btw its not only the hand. The post shows the entire growing of the whole robot.

Maybe I let it holding a plant - well, I'm thinking about it.

Best regards, Holger

[Christian Froeschlin] Re: General Question [5730 days 7 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Thu, 29 Jul 2010 21:44:09 GMT

H. Karsten wrote:

> Does it make any sense to submit something or is the goal to make 
> something tiny that gives a nice visual result?

It's not a short code competition. There have been lots of
submissions with posed humans and other complex input data
so feel free to submit. I'd worry more about fitting your
robot hand into the current topic of "Plants". ;)

> Is it necessary to submit the source, or is it just something nice in
> addition?

It's optional. Sometimes it might also make sense to submit
simplified sources, replacing a huge object with a simple
placeholder (people might learn tricks from your scene
without actually needing to recreate the image).

[H Karsten] General Question [5730 days 19 hours and 24 minutes ago]

Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:25:01 GMT

Hi people

Actually I've never submitted something to the IRTC, but now I like to. I've
made these robot-thing here:
http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3Cweb.4aee868aaed4cc17da6353d60%40news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=348708
&toff=200

So maybe doing something with this model but the source is _very_ big.

Does it make any sense to submit something or is the goal to make something tiny
that gives a nice visual result?

Is it necessary to submit the source, or is it just something nice in addition?

best regards, Holger

[Patrick Elliott] Re: Password reset failure (free.fr), new accoun... [5732 days 9 hours and 55 minutes ago]

Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:53:40 GMT

On 7/27/2010 9:13 AM, Le_Forgeron wrote:
> Greeting,
>
> As I failed miserably to get the password-reset email (blocked as spam
> by free.fr {*}), I tried to create a new account instead (which won't
> make my contributions easier to retrieve now: from 3 accounts, it goes
> now to 4). To my best surprise, it worked, I did get the email for
> account creation (using an alternative email).
>
> So, I wanted to let everyone know (especially the french people and the
> webmasters), should they encounter such issue, all hopes is not lost to
> contribute to the IRTC.
>
> See you soon in the round(s).
>
>
> {*}: http://postmaster.free.fr/ seems to explains that for such issue:
> ===========================
> 550 spam detected
>
> Reason
>
> You receive this refusal message when one mail was detected as a spam by
> our antispam filter and the delivery was rejected. The non delivery
> report has been sent by the SMTP server you have used or, if you did not
> send this mail, by the SMTP server who have relayed a mail spoofing your
> email.
>
> Solution
>
> If you did send the mail, you should at first check your mail to make
> sure it should not be missdetected as a spam, either by using an
> antispam softwate or by checking if the mail is syntaxically correct and
> if you do not use any mecanism that are known to be used by spammers.
> Failing that, you may send an email to nos### [at] proxadnet (be careful :
> as this sample needs to be as identical as possible to the rejected
> mail, you have to use whenever it is possible the same mailing tools
> with a similar content if it can not be identical) and then warn
> pos### [at] proxadnet (please include the sender and the subject of the
> sample).
>
> ===========================
>
> As obviously I do not have the original (bounced) email, I cannot do it
> myself. (and end-users have no control at all on that spam-filtering: we
> can have more, but we cannot disengage that one)
Some days I despise spam filters. Mind, I use hotmail for all my 
semi-junk stuff, so we are talking about a damn stupid spam filter to 
start with. However, I have yet to comprehend why the same **identical** 
email, and I do mean syntactically and content wise, identical, but with 
different source addresses, keeps getting through, no matter how often 
people mark it as spam, (its one of those "buy viagra or cialus for less 
emails), but every bloody time I sign up for email from an actual 
company I have to hunt the spam bin for the email, mark it as valid, 
then hope that Notmail doesn't randomly start trying to throw it out 
again in a month.

I have no bloody idea how they program those filters, but some ISPs, 
including MS employees, are absolute idiots.

-- 
void main () {
   If SchrÃ¶dingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models, 
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>

[Le Forgeron] Password reset failure (free.fr), new account ok [5732 days 12 hours and 35 minutes ago]

Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:13:38 GMT

Greeting,

As I failed miserably to get the password-reset email (blocked as spam
by free.fr {*}), I tried to create a new account instead (which won't
make my contributions easier to retrieve now: from 3 accounts, it goes
now to 4). To my best surprise, it worked, I did get the email for
account creation (using an alternative email).

So, I wanted to let everyone know (especially the french people and the
webmasters), should they encounter such issue, all hopes is not lost to
contribute to the IRTC.

See you soon in the round(s).


{*}: http://postmaster.free.fr/ seems to explains that for such issue:
===========================
550 spam detected

Reason

You receive this refusal message when one mail was detected as a spam by
our antispam filter and the delivery was rejected. The non delivery
report has been sent by the SMTP server you have used or, if you did not
send this mail, by the SMTP server who have relayed a mail spoofing your
email.

Solution

If you did send the mail, you should at first check your mail to make
sure it should not be missdetected as a spam, either by using an
antispam softwate or by checking if the mail is syntaxically correct and
if you do not use any mecanism that are known to be used by spammers.
Failing that, you may send an email to nos### [at] proxadnet (be careful :
as this sample needs to be as identical as possible to the rejected
mail, you have to use whenever it is possible the same mailing tools
with a similar content if it can not be identical) and then warn
pos### [at] proxadnet (please include the sender and the subject of the
sample).

===========================

As obviously I do not have the original (bounced) email, I cannot do it
myself. (and end-users have no control at all on that spam-filtering: we
can have more, but we cannot disengage that one)

[Nekar Xenos] Re: Minor site suggestions [5742 days 10 hours and 7 minutes ago]

Sat, 17 Jul 2010 18:41:42 GMT

On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:15:43 +0200, Christian Froeschlin <chr### [at] chrfrde>  
wrote:

> I just participated and voted for the first time on
> the new IRTC site, and altogether it has been a good
> user experience. Still, here are a few minor suggestions
> for improvement:
>
> o Next to the submit fields for image and thumbnail, it would
>    be helpful to display the supported file format (jpg only?).
>    If possible, you could also set the default file filter in
>    the file dialog which is opened by the browse button.
>
> o The voting page leads you to believe you need to vote on
>    your own submission, e.g. by displaying "not yet voted" on
>    the overview page and not skipping your own submission when
>    clicking "Save and Next". Of course, you will then get the
>    appropriate error on saving, but you also can't navigate
>    directly to the next image for voting.
>
> o I've been missing a link from the voting page for an
>    image back to the voting overview of all images.

I would also like to see an option to change your upload. For instance, my  
image uploaded, but the source didn't upload for some reason. It would  
have been nice to be able to go back and upload just the source.

-- 
-Nekar Xenos-

"The spoon is not real"

[Stephen] IRTC Navigation. [5742 days 13 hours and 18 minutes ago]

Sat, 17 Jul 2010 15:30:48 GMT

I was trying to look at the submissions for previous animation rounds 
when I got thoroughly lost in the site. Clicking on a link seemed to 
take me to a random page. This was with Firefox 3.6.6 and IE 8.0.
Not a problem but an opportunity?


-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

[Christian Froeschlin] Minor site suggestions [5746 days 18 hours and 36 minutes ago]

Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:13:14 GMT

I just participated and voted for the first time on
the new IRTC site, and altogether it has been a good
user experience. Still, here are a few minor suggestions
for improvement:

o Next to the submit fields for image and thumbnail, it would
   be helpful to display the supported file format (jpg only?).
   If possible, you could also set the default file filter in
   the file dialog which is opened by the browse button.

o The voting page leads you to believe you need to vote on
   your own submission, e.g. by displaying "not yet voted" on
   the overview page and not skipping your own submission when
   clicking "Save and Next". Of course, you will then get the
   appropriate error on saving, but you also can't navigate
   directly to the next image for voting.

o I've been missing a link from the voting page for an
   image back to the voting overview of all images.

[David Buck] A Long Voyage round awarded [5802 days 13 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Tue, 18 May 2010 14:58:19 GMT

The round for "A Long Voyage" has been awarded.  Congratulations to all.

David Buck

[Zan Trajkov] Re: Ideas for next IRTC topic [5816 days 15 hours and 13 minutes ago]

Tue, 4 May 2010 13:36:23 GMT

Hello all,

maybe "loneliness"?

-- Žan

[David Buck] Re: Ideas for next IRTC topic [5816 days 18 hours and 15 minutes ago]

Tue, 4 May 2010 10:34:06 GMT

Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> El 04/05/10 10:30, Nekar Xenos escribió:
>> On Tue, 04 May 2010 02:38:59 +0200, Chris Cason
>> <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> We'd like to invite suggestions for the next IRTC round topic - please
>>> post
>>> your thoughts!
>>>
>>> -- Chris
>>
>> Grunge.
>> Scenes like alleys or old broken down cars. anything that's old and
>> rusted or worn.
>>
> 
>   Great topic, BTW... seconded!
> 
> 

Done!  The new round is active.

David Buck

[Jaime Vives Piqueres] Re: Ideas for next IRTC topic [5816 days 19 hours and 3 minutes ago]

Tue, 4 May 2010 09:45:47 GMT

El 04/05/10 10:30, Nekar Xenos escribió:
> On Tue, 04 May 2010 02:38:59 +0200, Chris Cason
> <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> We'd like to invite suggestions for the next IRTC round topic - please
>> post
>> your thoughts!
>>
>> -- Chris
>
> Grunge.
> Scenes like alleys or old broken down cars. anything that's old and
> rusted or worn.
>

   Great topic, BTW... seconded!


-- 
Jaime Vives Piqueres

http://www.ignorancia.org

[Nekar Xenos] Re: Ideas for next IRTC topic [5816 days 20 hours and 18 minutes ago]

Tue, 4 May 2010 08:30:37 GMT

On Tue, 04 May 2010 02:38:59 +0200, Chris Cason  
<del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> We'd like to invite suggestions for the next IRTC round topic - please  
> post
> your thoughts!
>
> -- Chris

Grunge.
Scenes like alleys or old broken down cars. anything that's old and rusted  
or worn.

-Nekar Xenos-

[Chris Cason] Ideas for next IRTC topic [5817 days 4 hours and 10 minutes ago]

Tue, 4 May 2010 00:38:58 GMT

Hello all,

We'd like to invite suggestions for the next IRTC round topic - please post
your thoughts!

-- Chris

[David Buck] Re: Submissions not viewable? [5820 days and 54 minutes ago]

Sat, 1 May 2010 03:54:50 GMT

You can't see other people's submissions until after the round is open 
for voting and viewing.

David Buck

jhu wrote:
> I just submitted something. I can see it when I'm logged into the site. But when
> I log out, I get a message saying that there are no submissions for the round.
> Is this normal behavior with regard to the prior rounds?
> 
>

[jhu] Submissions not viewable? [5820 days 3 hours and 59 minutes ago]

Sat, 1 May 2010 00:50:01 GMT

I just submitted something. I can see it when I'm logged into the site. But when
I log out, I get a message saying that there are no submissions for the round.
Is this normal behavior with regard to the prior rounds?

[Doctor John] Thanks for the birthday present [5860 days 13 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Sun, 21 Mar 2010 15:42:37 GMT

Its my birthday tomorrow, so thankyou everyone for voting 'Isle of View'
into second place. Just what I needed to cheer me up and make me forget
about my advancing age ;-)

John
-- 
Cogito sum,|| wbu### [at] tznvypbz (rot'ed) || GPG Key Fingerprint:
ergo sum,  ||   These opinions are mine alone,   || 0D9BCF4CF1B71CA2F5F7
cogito     ||     others can find their own      || BFBBCBC34EDEAEFCE453

[David Buck] Vista round awarded [5863 days 6 hours ago]

Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:48:49 GMT

I've awarded the winners in the Vista round.  Congratulations to all the 
participants.

David Buck

[David Buck] Re: Vista round open for voting [5879 days 6 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Tue, 2 Mar 2010 22:08:52 GMT

Doctor John wrote:
> David Buck wrote:
>> The Vista round is open for voting.
>>
>> I've had a report that one of the images is a photograph (all the green
>> is gone).  I can't verify this right now so I'll leave it to the
>> community.  If I get agreement I'll delete the image.
> 
> To my eyes that is definitely a photograph.
> 

The JPG identifies itself as being taken from a Canon PowerShot SD750 
F-stop F/8 Exposure 1/320sec. ISO-80 etc.  It's deleted.

David Buck

[Doctor John] Re: Vista round open for voting [5879 days 10 hours ago]

Tue, 2 Mar 2010 18:49:10 GMT

David Buck wrote:
> The Vista round is open for voting.
> 
> I've had a report that one of the images is a photograph (all the green
> is gone).  I can't verify this right now so I'll leave it to the
> community.  If I get agreement I'll delete the image.

To my eyes that is definitely a photograph.

> I've also seen one report here of someone who couldn't post the image in
> time.  I don't mind posing it but again, I'll leave it to the community
> to decide whether it's fair.
> 

Depends on how late the culprit left it.
12 hours before close of play = reasonable
12 seconds "   "   " = no chance

John
-- 
Cogito sum,|| wbu### [at] tznvypbz (rot'ed) || GPG Key Fingerprint:
ergo sum,  ||   These opinions are mine alone,   || 0D9BCF4CF1B71CA2F5F7
cogito     ||     others can find their own      || BFBBCBC34EDEAEFCE453

[David Buck] Vista round open for voting [5879 days 17 hours and 1 minute ago]

Tue, 2 Mar 2010 11:47:49 GMT

The Vista round is open for voting.

I've had a report that one of the images is a photograph (all the green 
is gone).  I can't verify this right now so I'll leave it to the 
community.  If I get agreement I'll delete the image.

I've also seen one report here of someone who couldn't post the image in 
time.  I don't mind posing it but again, I'll leave it to the community 
to decide whether it's fair.

David

[David Buck] Space round awarded [5919 days 17 hours and 39 minutes ago]

Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:09:38 GMT

The Space round has been awarded.  Congratulations to all on the 
excellent submissions.

David Buck

[David Buck] Re: Sept-Oct round awarded - Nov-Dec round open ... [5935 days 1 hour and 3 minutes ago]

Wed, 6 Jan 2010 03:45:44 GMT

I'll delete this entry.  It's clearly inappropriate.

David

Christian Froeschlin wrote:
> Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> 
>> the only explanation is that these people use the competitions as a 
>> sort of
>> free hosting service for their image galleries, so they can later link to
>> them somewhere.
> 
> It's probably the other way round: a method to promote their
> own gallery and services by backlinking to their page.
> 
>> BTW, I don't know how we can try to avoid this...
> 
> If it turns out to become a real problem, a corresponding
> check box could be added to the voting page, e.g.
> 
>   "[ ] I consider this to be an invalid entry"
> 
> implying deletion if checked by more than 50% of voters
> and otherwise treated as worst possible vote.

[Christian Froeschlin] Re: Sept-Oct round awarded - Nov-Dec round open ... [5935 days 11 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Tue, 5 Jan 2010 17:04:58 GMT

Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:

> the only explanation is that these people use the competitions as a sort of
> free hosting service for their image galleries, so they can later link to
> them somewhere.

It's probably the other way round: a method to promote their
own gallery and services by backlinking to their page.

> BTW, I don't know how we can try to avoid this...

If it turns out to become a real problem, a corresponding
check box could be added to the voting page, e.g.

   "[ ] I consider this to be an invalid entry"

implying deletion if checked by more than 50% of voters
and otherwise treated as worst possible vote.

[Jaime Vives Piqueres] Re: Sept-Oct round awarded - Nov-Dec round open ... [5935 days 16 hours and 14 minutes ago]

Tue, 5 Jan 2010 12:34:41 GMT

El 05/01/10 04:27, David Buck escribió:
> One submission in the Nov-Dec round seems very off-topic, but I've kept
> it in and decided to let the voters decide.

   I see... and I think it's not just off topic, but an abuse of the IRTC
site. I've seen it in other competitions, and after thinking a bit about it,
the only explanation is that these people use the competitions as a sort of
free hosting service for their image galleries, so they can later link to
them somewhere.

   BTW, I don't know how we can try to avoid this...

-- 
Jaime Vives Piqueres

http://www.ignorancia.org

[David Buck] Sept-Oct round awarded - Nov-Dec round open for ... [5936 days 1 hour and 22 minutes ago]

Tue, 5 Jan 2010 03:27:11 GMT

I've updated the software on the IRTC site to fix the earlier problems 
with voting.  I've awarded the Sept-Oct round and opened the Nov-Dec 
round for voting.  One submission in the Nov-Dec round seems very 
off-topic, but I've kept it in and decided to let the voters decide.

David Buck

[David Buck] Re: Sept-Oct round awarded [5979 days 6 hours and 21 minutes ago]

Sun, 22 Nov 2009 22:28:04 GMT

John Coppens wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:48:13 -0500
> David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
> 
>> The round for Sept-Oct has been awarded.  Congratulations to the
>> winners and thanks to all for your excellent entries.
> 
> Hey all.
> 
> Please take the following as constructive... Here are a few of my
> observations:
> 
> - I'd like to see scores. Until now I haven't been able to find out
> how to do that. Not necessarily individual scoring, but at least so I can
> evaluate where the problem is. I can't even know how many even voted...
> 
> - I'm somewhat miffed at the fact I received only one comment (thanks for
> that one!). I don't participate to win (though I wouldn't mind ;-), but
> at least I'd like to learn! Without either, I feel little incentive to
> participate.
> 
> There seems to be some improvement with the 503-error problem. I haven't
> had any errors recently - thanks David.
> 
> John

When I fix the problem with the voting, I'll also make a change to allow 
everyone to see the average score and number of votes each entry had in 
the competition.

David

[David Buck] Re: Sept-Oct round awarded [5979 days 6 hours and 23 minutes ago]

Sun, 22 Nov 2009 22:26:21 GMT

clipka wrote:
> John Coppens schrieb:
> 
>> - I'm somewhat miffed at the fact I received only one comment (thanks for
>> that one!). I don't participate to win (though I wouldn't mind ;-), but
>> at least I'd like to learn! Without either, I feel little incentive to
>> participate.
> 
> 
> I hate to say this, but something's gone wrong again - at least with the 
> comments: While I did comment several entries, I see only one single of 
> them.
> 
> (Which leads me to the question: If the comments are not registered 
> properly, how can we be sure that the votes are?)

Yes, something is wrong.  This time I do have the original data I can 
use to correct the problem.

There's a bug in a base class library I'm using during the voting 
process.  Last month I put in a work-around for the problem but it turns 
out the workaround still experiences the problem.  I will work at a 
better fix for the problem.

Once the problem is fixed,  I'll re-apply the voting changes which 
should make all the comments appear.  As clipka suggested, it may change 
the voting results as well. I'll check that out once I fix the problem. 
  If there are changes, I may have to re-do the awards for that round. 
This evening, I'll try to revert the awarding to appear as if the round 
wasn't awarded yet.  After the fix, I'll re-run the awarding process.

David

[clipka] Re: Sept-Oct round awarded [5980 days 11 hours and 5 minutes ago]

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:44:30 GMT

John Coppens schrieb:

> - I'm somewhat miffed at the fact I received only one comment (thanks for
> that one!). I don't participate to win (though I wouldn't mind ;-), but
> at least I'd like to learn! Without either, I feel little incentive to
> participate.


I hate to say this, but something's gone wrong again - at least with the 
comments: While I did comment several entries, I see only one single of 
them.

(Which leads me to the question: If the comments are not registered 
properly, how can we be sure that the votes are?)

[John Coppens] Re: Sept-Oct round awarded [5980 days 13 hours and 13 minutes ago]

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:36:15 GMT

On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:48:13 -0500
David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:

> The round for Sept-Oct has been awarded.  Congratulations to the
> winners and thanks to all for your excellent entries.

Hey all.

Please take the following as constructive... Here are a few of my
observations:

- I'd like to see scores. Until now I haven't been able to find out
how to do that. Not necessarily individual scoring, but at least so I can
evaluate where the problem is. I can't even know how many even voted...

- I'm somewhat miffed at the fact I received only one comment (thanks for
that one!). I don't participate to win (though I wouldn't mind ;-), but
at least I'd like to learn! Without either, I feel little incentive to
participate.

There seems to be some improvement with the 503-error problem. I haven't
had any errors recently - thanks David.

John

[David Buck] Sept-Oct round awarded [5981 days 1 hour and 1 minute ago]

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:48:11 GMT

The round for Sept-Oct has been awarded.  Congratulations to the winners 
and thanks to all for your excellent entries.

David Buck

[John Coppens] Re: IRTC site - round open for voting [5991 days 6 hours and 53 minutes ago]

Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:56:01 GMT

On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:30:39 -0500
David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:

> Patch installed.  Try it now.

David, I love you ;-)    That was soooo much easier! (And it loaded much
faster too). 

I second clipka's 'return to the index'-button-request (Instead of going
'home').

Thanks!
John

[David Buck] Re: IRTC site - round open for voting [5992 days 3 hours and 18 minutes ago]

Tue, 10 Nov 2009 01:30:37 GMT

David Buck wrote:
> clipka wrote:
>> clipka schrieb:
>>> Some other suggestions:
>>> ...
>>
>> A way to get back from an individual voting page to the voting 
>> overview thumbs would be pretty neat, too.
> 
> I'm going to try getting a version out that replaces the star rater with 
> a simple drop-down box. Obviously the star rater is causing too much grief.
> 
> Sorry for the problems.  I'll do this as quickly as I can but I have to 
> be careful that I don't break anything.
> 
> David Buck

Patch installed.  Try it now.

David Buck

[David Buck] Re: IRTC site - round open for voting [5992 days 4 hours and 3 minutes ago]

Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:45:46 GMT

clipka wrote:
> clipka schrieb:
>> Some other suggestions:
>> ...
> 
> A way to get back from an individual voting page to the voting overview 
> thumbs would be pretty neat, too.

I'm going to try getting a version out that replaces the star rater with 
a simple drop-down box. Obviously the star rater is causing too much grief.

Sorry for the problems.  I'll do this as quickly as I can but I have to 
be careful that I don't break anything.

David Buck

[clipka] Re: IRTC site - round open for voting [5993 days 9 hours and 4 minutes ago]

Sun, 8 Nov 2009 19:45:08 GMT

clipka schrieb:
> Some other suggestions:
> ...

A way to get back from an individual voting page to the voting overview 
thumbs would be pretty neat, too.

[clipka] Re: IRTC site - round open for voting [5993 days 9 hours and 6 minutes ago]

Sun, 8 Nov 2009 19:42:58 GMT

clipka schrieb:
> John Coppens schrieb:
>> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 23:07:41 -0500
>> David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
>>
>>> The round is now open for voting.
>>
>> Does anyone else have the problems I have with the 'stars' for voting?
>> They frequently show up as a vertical table of links (very much 
>> impossible
>> to vote as the next line of stars overwrites them). I'm running Firefox
>> 3.5.3 here.
> 
> Same problem here, with IE 8. Voted for two entries, then the "stars" 
> went into mental mode, and don't seem to be inclined to revert back to 
> sanity. Redoing from start (close browser, log in again) doesn't help 
> either. The problem does not only appear with the entries I haven't 
> voted for yet, but also on those I have voted for, and which were ok 
> previously.
> 
> Many 503 responses, too.

Tried again after some time, with more success. Only had glitches again 
from the second to last image:

Firstly, on the second to last image the "stars" didn't react properly 
on a single click, and instead needed two clicks to register. Then, when 
clicking "save and next", I got some queer popup about whether I wanted 
to save or execute a file with some cryptic name. When dismissing that 
message by aborting, then clicking "save and next again", I was taken to 
the very first image.

A "direct" attempt to vote on the last image (via the thumbs overview) 
was successful.

Some other suggestions:

- When on the voting thumbs overview, clicking on an image should take 
to the voting page, not the viewing page.

- Having a means to sort the voting thumbs overview according to my vote 
would be a nice thing.

[clipka] Re: IRTC site - round open for voting [5993 days 9 hours and 38 minutes ago]

Sun, 8 Nov 2009 19:10:32 GMT

John Coppens schrieb:
> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 23:07:41 -0500
> David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
> 
>> The round is now open for voting.
> 
> Does anyone else have the problems I have with the 'stars' for voting?
> They frequently show up as a vertical table of links (very much impossible
> to vote as the next line of stars overwrites them). I'm running Firefox
> 3.5.3 here.

Same problem here, with IE 8. Voted for two entries, then the "stars" 
went into mental mode, and don't seem to be inclined to revert back to 
sanity. Redoing from start (close browser, log in again) doesn't help 
either. The problem does not only appear with the entries I haven't 
voted for yet, but also on those I have voted for, and which were ok 
previously.

Many 503 responses, too.

[John Coppens] Re: IRTC site - round open for voting [5993 days 13 hours and 2 minutes ago]

Sun, 8 Nov 2009 15:47:14 GMT

On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 11:54:57 -0300
John Coppens <joh### [at] johncoppenscom> wrote:

> I'm going to try with
> Opera or so... Maybe the browser adds to the problems?

Well, in Opera, I could do three more votes before the same problems
started appearing. I did detect the following:

in http://static.irtc.org/style_screen.css Line: 70,

There are 9 'A's which, I believe, shouldn't be there:

.viewing td.rightColumn { text-align:left }

A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A

------------
I suspect this has nothing to do with the actual problem though.
John

[John Coppens] Re: IRTC site - round open for voting [5993 days 13 hours and 54 minutes ago]

Sun, 8 Nov 2009 14:54:58 GMT

On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 17:41:08 -0800
"pan" <pan### [at] syixcom> wrote:

> Regardless, in true POV spiriit I plunged on to come to within
> three votes of completing. Tomorrow will be soon enough.

Just tried again - I get 'Error 503' (capacity problems) about half the
time, and a mangled voting system the other half. I'm going to try with
Opera or so... Maybe the browser adds to the problems?
If these issues continue, I doubt I'll be able to vote in the 11 days
left.

John

[pan] Re: IRTC site - round open for voting [5995 days 3 hours and 8 minutes ago]

Sat, 7 Nov 2009 01:41:10 GMT

John Coppens wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 23:07:41 -0500
>> David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
>>
>>> The round is now open for voting.
>>
>> Does anyone else have the problems I have with the 'stars' for
>> voting? They frequently show up as a vertical table of links (very
>> much impossible to vote as the next line of stars overwrites them).
>> I'm running Firefox
>> 3.5.3 here.
>>
>> John

Yes, saw the same effects.
Way too much javascript overhead. The number of files that need to be
downloaded is a bunch.
I usually reloaded two - three times to get a final render.

N.B. - to web developers. If you make each document modifying file
equally critical to the viewing of the web page, then the quality of the
'visitor  experience' is exponentially relative to the msec distance of
transmission. (I.E., what works well on a lan/wan may not be so hot
out there is the world wide cloud.)

Regardless, in true POV spiriit I plunged on to come to within
three votes of completing. Tomorrow will be soon enough.

Am glad there wasn't 120+ entries like a few times before.

[John Coppens] Re: IRTC site - round open for voting [5995 days 5 hours ago]

Fri, 6 Nov 2009 23:49:22 GMT

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 23:07:41 -0500
David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:

> The round is now open for voting.

Does anyone else have the problems I have with the 'stars' for voting?
They frequently show up as a vertical table of links (very much impossible
to vote as the next line of stars overwrites them). I'm running Firefox
3.5.3 here.

John

[Warp] Re: IRTC Status [5995 days 6 hours and 40 minutes ago]

Fri, 6 Nov 2009 22:09:00 GMT

In irtc.general David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
> Do you want me to delete the comments you made on other people's 
> submissions or the comments that other people made on your submission?

  The comments I made.

  (If you set up a way to re-comment, then I might see if I could do that
for some of the images.)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

[David Buck] IRTC site - round open for voting [5996 days and 41 minutes ago]

Fri, 6 Nov 2009 04:07:42 GMT

I've finished testing the new software and added the entries that 
couldn't be submitted because of the server problems on the last day of 
the contest.

The round is now open for voting.

David Buck

[David Buck] Re: IRTC Status [5996 days 4 hours and 44 minutes ago]

Fri, 6 Nov 2009 00:04:42 GMT

Warp wrote:
> In irtc.general David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
>> The last round exposed a serious bug in the voting process.  As many of 
>> you noticed, comments were clipped after the first line. I had put in 
>> measures to make sure that the votes were all recorded along with the 
>> comments.  A combination of problems conspired to lose the original 
>> comments.
> 
>   Doesn't the http server store logs somewhere?
> 
>>         2) Delete the comments completely for that round
> 
>   I don't remember my comments anymore, so please delete at least mine.
> I don't want crippled versions of them floating around.
> 

It's the server logs that went wrong.  The logs were written out with 
the full text of the comments written into the file but with CR/LF's. 
When they were read back in after the restart, it only read up to the 
first CR and missed the rest.  A separate bug got log numbers mixed up 
and ended up over-writing the log files with the truncated ones.

David

[David Buck] Re: IRTC Status [5996 days 4 hours and 47 minutes ago]

Fri, 6 Nov 2009 00:01:56 GMT

Warp wrote:
> In irtc.general David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
>> The last round exposed a serious bug in the voting process.  As many of 
>> you noticed, comments were clipped after the first line. I had put in 
>> measures to make sure that the votes were all recorded along with the 
>> comments.  A combination of problems conspired to lose the original 
>> comments.
> 
>   Doesn't the http server store logs somewhere?
> 
>>         2) Delete the comments completely for that round
> 
>   I don't remember my comments anymore, so please delete at least mine.
> I don't want crippled versions of them floating around.
> 

Do you want me to delete the comments you made on other people's 
submissions or the comments that other people made on your submission?

David

[Warp] Re: IRTC Status [5996 days 13 hours and 49 minutes ago]

Thu, 5 Nov 2009 15:00:25 GMT

In irtc.general David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
> The last round exposed a serious bug in the voting process.  As many of 
> you noticed, comments were clipped after the first line. I had put in 
> measures to make sure that the votes were all recorded along with the 
> comments.  A combination of problems conspired to lose the original 
> comments.

  Doesn't the http server store logs somewhere?

>         2) Delete the comments completely for that round

  I don't remember my comments anymore, so please delete at least mine.
I don't want crippled versions of them floating around.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

[Paolo Gibellini] Re: IRTC Status [5996 days 15 hours and 51 minutes ago]

Thu, 5 Nov 2009 12:58:12 GMT

David, thank you for your work.
I prefer the option 3, is more general. But... have you the time to 
working on? Do you need some help?
;-)
Paolo

 >David Buck  on date 05/11/2009 03:47 wrote:
> Here's an update on the status of the IRTC site:
> 
> The site is once again operational after a few days of being down.  The 
> problem was that I was trying to install a new version of the software 
> for the site but a recent upgrade of the operating system left some 
> critical Unix commands not working.  I couldn't proceed with the upgrade 
> until that was repaired.
> 
> I haven't yet opened the current round for voting.  I need to submit 
> several entries that didn't make it in time because of server problems 
> on the last night of the round.  I also want to do some more testing of 
> the voting process to make sure it's ready.
> 
> The last round exposed a serious bug in the voting process.  As many of 
> you noticed, comments were clipped after the first line. I had put in 
> measures to make sure that the votes were all recorded along with the 
> comments.  A combination of problems conspired to lose the original 
> comments.  All I had left was the first line of each comment. I 
> sincerely apologize for this problem.  It was a combination of CR/LF 
> translations on different operating systems along with a reboot of the 
> server and a third bug in the way the votes were loaded back into the 
> system that caused the problem.  These problems have been fixed in the 
> current version of the software.
> 
> I now have a dilemma.  The comments for the last round are frequently 
> useless and deceiving when only the first line is displayed.  I have 
> several options:
> 
>     1) Leave the comments as they are
>     2) Delete the comments completely for that round
>     3) Add software to allow users go back and edit or re-enter the 
> comments for that round.
> 
> Your opinions on the above options would be appreciated.
> 
> All this is coming at a time when I've become super busy with real life. 
>  I'll be talking to Chris Cason to come up with a game plan for keeping 
> the site going smoothly even if I don't have time to work on it. For a 
> while, I had a second volunteer who was looking into problems, but he's 
> become busy as well.  When we have a plan, we'll let you know.
> 
> For now, please give me a few more days before opening the round for 
> voting.  I want to make sure it's working properly and that we won't 
> have a repeat of any of the previous problems.
> 
> Thanks and my apologies for the problems with the site.
> 
> David Buck