Christoph Hormann nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2005-10-04 11:07:
> Kenneth wrote:
> 
>>
>> Thanks, Christoph, that works!!  Instead of 10 minutes, it now takes less
>> than 10 seconds.  Not bad!!  And without crashing the computer.  : )
> 
> 
> Just to make this clear - this was not intended as a suggestion for 
> normal operation.  It was just meant to illustrate that the long time 
> required to stop a render is not inevitable in general but only when you 
> don't want to terminate the process at the same time.  There is no point 
> in using the a GUI version of POV-Ray if you stop the render by killing 
> the program.
> 
>> Stopping a render like this does raise a question in my mind, though: If
>> POV-Ray normally takes time to "clean out" (or "make available 
>> again"?) the
>> many small fragments of hard drive memory it has used, am I creating
>> "other" problems by terminating POV this way? 
> 
> 
> In any modern OS when a process is terminated - no matter which way - 
> the allocated memory gets freed automatically (more precise: the address 
> space of the process simply ceases to exist).
> 
> Christoph
> 
True if you run windows NT, 2000 or XP, also if using any Linux distro. FALSE if you
use Win 95, 98, 
SE or ME! Win 9x memory management just suck.

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
Lutheran: If shit happens, don't talk about it.

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Alain wrote:
> True if you run windows NT, 2000 or XP, also if using any Linux distro. 
> FALSE if you use Win 95, 98, SE or ME! Win 9x memory management just suck.

One word: nonsense.

	Thorsten

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Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> Alain wrote:
> > True if you run windows NT, 2000 or XP, also if using any Linux distro.
> > FALSE if you use Win 95, 98, SE or ME! Win 9x memory management just suck.
>
> One word: nonsense.
>
>  Thorsten

Hmm... there seems to be a very interesting difference of opinion(s) here.
: )   But I've learned something new from each and every post, so my
thanks to all.  I suppose I should do a bit of research on my own, to try
and understand the arcania of the Windows hard drive OS (...gee, what
fun...) so I can better
understand what's going on. But as I mentioned earlier, when shutting the
program down through the TaskManager per Christoph's suggestion (shall we
call it "terminating with extreme prejudice" ??)  there do not SEEM to be
any ill effects, at least on my Win98SE system,  So that seems a viable
option for me. Of course, I'd still appreciate hearing other opinions!

Thanks again, everyone!!

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Thorsten Froehlich nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2005-10-04 12:17:
> Alain wrote:
> 
>> True if you run windows NT, 2000 or XP, also if using any Linux 
>> distro. FALSE if you use Win 95, 98, SE or ME! Win 9x memory 
>> management just suck.
> 
> 
> One word: nonsense.
> 
>     Thorsten
When you run win 9x, the OS DON'T keep track of the memory used by each applications
individualy, 
just the agragate useage. It don't know what application use what bit of memory!!!
Thus, when you 
force close an application, the OS can't free the memory that this application was
using. Under Win 
9x, each application MUST keep track of it's own memory useage and each application
must liberate 
that mamory when it no longer needs it.

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
But I thought YOU did the backups...

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Alain wrote:
>>> True if you run windows NT, 2000 or XP, also if using any Linux 
>>> distro. FALSE if you use Win 95, 98, SE or ME! Win 9x memory 
>>> management just suck.
>>
>> One word: nonsense.
> 
> When you run win 9x, the OS DON'T keep track of the memory used by each 
> applications individualy, just the agragate useage. It don't know what 
> application use what bit of memory!!! Thus, when you force close an 
> application, the OS can't free the memory that this application was 
> using. Under Win 9x, each application MUST keep track of it's own memory 
> useage and each application must liberate that mamory when it no longer 
> needs it.

This is plain wrong and shows you don't know at all what is going on. It is 
clear you have no understanding of even the basics of what an operating 
system does or how it does it, and certainly not what any Windows operating 
system does or does not do.  In fact, you seem to have serious 
misconconceptions that show you know nothing about the topic making it 
impossible to explain it in a newsgroup.  If you are at all interested in 
the topic, I can only recommend you learn about it first.

This is after all not a matter of opinion but of the most basic facts.

	Thorsten

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Kenneth wrote:
> Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> 
>>Alain wrote:
>>
>>>True if you run windows NT, 2000 or XP, also if using any Linux distro.
>>>FALSE if you use Win 95, 98, SE or ME! Win 9x memory management just suck.
>>
>>One word: nonsense.
>
> Hmm... there seems to be a very interesting difference of opinion(s) here.
> : )

No, it isn't a matter of opinion, you do not need to worry.  The facts are 
clear and simple.  You just don't have to worry that terminating a regular 
program like POV-Ray the way you do will cause any damage or loss to your 
operating system of any kind.

	Thorsten Froehlich, POV-Team

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Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:

> > Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:

> > Hmm... there seems to be a very interesting difference of opinion(s) here.
> > : )
>
> No, it isn't a matter of opinion, you do not need to worry.  The facts are
> clear and simple.  You just don't have to worry that terminating a regular
> program like POV-Ray the way you do will cause any damage or loss to your
> operating system of any kind.
>
>  Thorsten Froehlich, POV-Team

 Ah, peace of mind has returned!  Thank you, Thorsten.

Wow, this topic seems to have brought to the fore a general misunderstanding
(certainly on my part) as to how POV deals with its host computer and OS.
What a lively discussion! My thanks again to all who have contributed.

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Alain <ele### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> When you run win 9x, the OS DON'T keep track of the memory used by each applications
individualy, 
> just the agragate useage. It don't know what application use what bit of memory!!!
Thus, when you 
> force close an application, the OS can't free the memory that this application was
using. Under Win 
> 9x, each application MUST keep track of it's own memory useage and each application
must liberate 
> that mamory when it no longer needs it.

  And this information is based on what? Can you give me a reference?

  Perhaps you should actually read some documentation on how memory
management works in C-based operating systems (such as windows and unix).
Especially you should read about the concept of the heap (also knowing
what is the stack also helps).

  And by the way, in English when you use the third person singular it's
"doesn't", not "don't".

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Alain <ele### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> True if you run windows NT, 2000 or XP, also if using any Linux distro. FALSE if you
use Win 95, 98, 
> SE or ME! Win 9x memory management just suck.

  I don't know of any operating system which could not automatically free
the memory used by a process when the process terminates.

  You see, programs have a heap where memory blocks are allocated. The program
asks the OS to grow the heap when it needs more memory. The OS naturally
knows where the heap of the process is and how big it is. When the process
terminates it just frees this heap.

  Programs have no way of "allocating" any memory bypassing the OS. That
would just cause a segmentation fault (this is enforced by the CPU).

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
>   I don't know of any operating system which could not automatically free
> the memory used by a process when the process terminates.

The original AmigaOS. Verix. Probably many embedded OSes.

It's more that the OSes are "multi-user" than they are "C-based". You 
have to clean up, or you risk disrupting other apps.

But it's true that Win98 recovers most resources after you kill a 
process. Certainly it doesn't leak any more memory than it normally 
would. ;-)

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
    Neither rocks nor slush nor salted rims
    shall keep us from our appointed rounds.

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