Steely wrote:
> No, Warp, sorry, but it does *not*. As I said, it is neither a matter of

> You know the Alt-G stroke, You might use it when typing at the notebook, but
> it would never, never, never come to your mind when sitting at the PC. Why?


> arm that a lot of people think this way (I do, of course).

What you actually need (with W/L, with desktop/laptop) is a touchpad and 
knowledge of how to really use it. You can use it with the thumb of your 
right hand _while_ you're writing. So it's faster than fast to use - 
when you've just learned it. Ordinary mouse is a piece of s when doing 
anything else but non-Pov-graphics* or games**.

*) meaning graphics that you actually shoot the mouse for a certain 
pixel after a certain pixel.

**) actually, I don't know. I haven't triend playing with touchpad

> Then you change the OS. Great! You have hundred distros, a dozen WMs and two

> it, you simply ask for- and get a punch on the nose! They talk to you abou
> efficiency, but what they mean is - *their* habit ;-) **

True. But our habit is the right habit ;), don't you think? I do miss 
the GUI of WinPOV, but everything else is so crappy and slow with 
Explorer that WinPOV's GUI - as damn good as it is - is not mentionable :/.

  --
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
    http://www.zbxt.net
       aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid

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"Steely" <nomail@nomail> wrote in message
news:web.425e962c30c3f35d23d476c10@news.povray.org...
> Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> >   Perhaps it's a pain to *you* because you don't know how to do it
> > efficiently?
>
> ...... possible, of course.
>
> >   After all, it just requires a couple of keystrokes.
>
> No, Warp, sorry, but it does *not*.

no? yes it does. i consider Alt-G one keystroke, maybe one and a half. I
consider Alt-Tab, Up, Enter as two. up and enter are so close together, that
it's one action really. So how is it not just a couple of keystrokes?

> As I said, it is neither a matter of

> You know the Alt-G stroke, You might use it when typing at the notebook,
but
> it would never, never, never come to your mind when sitting at the PC.
Why?


right
> arm that a lot of people think this way (I do, of course).

But if your hands are on the keyboard typing POV SDL already, why reach for
the mouse when you can, either A) in POV For Windows Alt-G it, or B) in
Unixland Alt-tab Up Enter?

If I reach for the mouse, i've got to move it around and find an icon to
click. Bleh. Inefficiency! Torment! While typing, the keystrokes are a lot
closer and a lot quicker.

Bahavior and habit is not always something to hang your hat on. What if out
of habit you take a certain course driving home. One day a friend shows you
a shortcut that saves you a gallon of gas per week and has no drawbacks? It
would be pointless to take the old way.

If something improves your workflow why not give it a shot? Old Habits be
damned.

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Steely wrote: (to Warp)
> You know the Alt-G stroke, You might use it when typing at the notebook, but
> it would never, never, never come to your mind when sitting at the PC. Why?


> arm that a lot of people think this way (I do, of course).

Keystrokes never come to mind???  Not at all.  Maybe a lot of people do 
think this way (the inefficient ones), but I expect a lot more don't 
(the effective ones).  Of course I use the mouse a lot -- but I still 
find that keyboard shorcuts are much more convenient in many cases.

Mouse:  Move cursor up to the menu bar, click on Edit
         Move cursor down the menu, click on Undo
Keyboard:  Press Ctrl-Z (one hand)

(That's an example of one I use *ALL* the time!!)  In fact, most of the 
common shortcuts are pretty universal between applications AND OS's.

Of course, as has already been mentioned, everyone has their own habits 
and preferences.  This is normal and proper.  Nevertheless, I would 
suggest that you try to get over your distaste for using the keyboard 
with a GUI.  You might even find yourself working faster and easier.

Now, I use Windows, but I also use Linux, with a GUI (usually GNOME, but 
occasionally KDE).  And I don't have any trouble using POVRay with its 
command-line interface.  While I never had any UNIX experience in the 
past, I had been a heavy MSDOS user -- and a CP/M user before that 
(anybody remember CP/M??).  ;-)  So I am comfortable with a command 
line.  Also I touch-type -- which is always helpful.

However, I'm still pretty much a beginner with POVRay and tend to always 
use the same set of options.  So I find that a couple of very simple 
scripts to drive it simplify things considerbly.  This way I don't have 
to retype the options every time I call up a render.  You might find 
something like this would be helpful as well.

> Then you change the OS. Great! You have hundred distros, ...

Really??  *You* have a hundered different distros???  :-)  I thought I 
was weird -- I've got about four installed (but I only use one).

 >           a dozen WMs and two huge DEs.  ...

So?  Pick one, and use it.  There isn't really all that much difference 
between them.


> it, you simply ask for- and get a punch on the nose! 

It has already been suggested that things like QTPOVEditor or EMACS can 
be useful in this regard.  That's "a punch in the nose"??  To me, it 
sounds like people are trying to help you out.

But you are welcome to continue with your limited mouse-only world view. 
  I'll stick to using both where appropriate, and get some work done.  ;-)

      -=- Larry -=-

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use### [at] domaininvalid wrote:

>     Are you _really_ eating your visitors ?

Damn! That's what happens when I can't test the code first!

It was supposed to just set a place for each visitor, and serve them a 
puppy.  Instead it rendered a whole table full of puppies and no 
visitors. What a catastrophe!

Hmmmm... that reminds me of something...

RG

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>   I only edit the pov file with emacs. I run povray from xterm.

Ah, I see :)


Thanks,
Florian
-- 
camera{look_at-y*10location<8,-3,-8>*10}#local a=0;#while(a<999)sphere{
#local _=.01*a-4.99;#local p=a*.01-5;#local c=.01*a-4.995;<sin(p*pi)*5p
*10pow(p,5)*.01>sin(c*c*c*.1)+1pigment{rgb 3}}#local a=a+1;#end
/******** http://www.torfbold.com ******** http://www.imp.org ********/

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Steely <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> No, Warp, sorry, but it does *not*. As I said, it is neither a matter of

> You know the Alt-G stroke, You might use it when typing at the notebook, but
> it would never, never, never come to your mind when sitting at the PC. Why?


> arm that a lot of people think this way (I do, of course).

  Wait a minute. You are trying to say that I, when I'm using WinPOV,
should not press alt-g to render the scene but instead move my hand to
the mouse, move the mouse cursor to the render button and click it?

  Why would I do that since pressing alt-g is so much faster and easier?
Since I'm writing, my hands are already on the keyboard; I don't have
to move my hand at all to press alt-g, I simply press it and that's it.

  If I'm using the mouse for whatever reason at the time I want to render,
then I might click the render button because it's effortless (even though
I might press alt-g with my left hand, whichever is the path of least
resistance). However, if I'm currently writing pov sdl code and want a
quick render, how would the mouse be any better than quickly pressing alt-g?

> Then you change the OS. Great! You have hundred distros, a dozen WMs and two

> it, you simply ask for- and get a punch on the nose! They talk to you abou
> efficiency, but what they mean is - *their* habit ;-) **

  So you call it efficient that you have to grab your mouse, move it to
a location and click instead of simply pressing alt-g?

> > I'm not telling you fall into this category, but I wouldn't
> > be surprised.

> I wouldn't be also. I'm not an expert. :-)

  If you want to promote the use of the mouse, please learn to use the
mouse efficiently.


> from Windows, but now it gets off-topic.

  Surprise surprise, also Windows and the vast majority of Windows programs
support shortcut keys.

  If you are editing a document and you want to make a quick save, which
do you think is easier and more efficient, pressing ctrl-s (the more or
less standard way of saving in most Windows programs) or moving your
hand to the mouse, moving the mouse cursor to the save button and
clicking it?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Dear Chaps,
 I use Window$ and a mouse but I learned to use a computer using keystrokes

and disadvantages. One of the biggest disadvantages with a GUI is watching


as well close your eyes when it comes to following what someone is doing.

just click the icon. The little man inside does all the picking up and

unbalanced :-)  <-- smiley

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"Greg M. Johnson" <gregj;-)565### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> Thanks for the advice all.  Will check out the recommended tools.
>
> "Christoph Hormann" <chr### [at] gmxde> wrote in message
> news:425CDF9E.80F33875@gmx.de...
> >
> > For avoiding typos with file names you can use the bash
> > autocompletition.
>
> Partial listing of a few of the character files:

<snip>

>              352 File(s)     12,394,196 bytes
>                0 Dir(s)  10,240,430,080 bytes free

Maybe you want to leave all those files there, and create a new directory
hiarchy for all new work from here on.  Or you can make your version
numbers a fixed number of digits (e.g. 3#,Letter,1Num) and then a prefix,
and then use that.

e.g. 034S_1S<tab> for 034S_1Shield.pov  (not that I actually use this, but
it's an idea).

You could also use a dual-boot system, and have Windows just for the POV-Ray
GUI. *shrugs*

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Please, let's just agree to disagree. People who prefer unix-like
environments like their keyboards and configure switches, gui people like
the mouse and drop-down menus. This is a gross oversimplification, but this
has got to stop.

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"Andrea Reina" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Please, let's just agree to disagree. People who prefer unix-like
> environments like their keyboards and configure switches, gui people like
> the mouse and drop-down menus. This is a gross oversimplification, but this
> has got to stop.

Maybe they have agreed to disagree. You replied to a year-old thread,
Andrea... :)

I like the Windows GUI, but I manage OK on Linux with Kate & a script or
two.

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