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Ok, several nights of tutorials, doing some basic modeling, trying to figure out the
materials and
textures interface, trying to rotate some vertices around an axis, etc., and I am once
again
extremely frustrated. I'm still going to continue for awhile, but I've come to the
conclusion that
the Blender interface just plain sucks out loud. It is completely non-intuitive.
Does anyone have
any valid reason to disagree with this statement? If so, please explain why...
Kyle
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"Kyle" <hob### [at] gate net> schreef in bericht
news:74t9u21no4tp13avq8fjqq1d1p3ile2t7t@4ax.com...
> Ok, several nights of tutorials, doing some basic modeling, trying to
> figure out the materials and
> textures interface, trying to rotate some vertices around an axis, etc.,
> and I am once again
> extremely frustrated. I'm still going to continue for awhile, but I've
> come to the conclusion that
> the Blender interface just plain sucks out loud. It is completely
> non-intuitive. Does anyone have
> any valid reason to disagree with this statement? If so, please explain
> why...
>
Hmm, Hmmm...
That sounds bad indeed :-(
I am not entirely surprised.
Janet seems to be a knowledgeable person about Blender on these ng's.
Perhaps she will come up with a useful hint...?
Thomas
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On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 22:26:03 -0500, Kyle wrote:
> It is completely
> non-intuitive. Does anyone have any valid reason to disagree with this
> statement? If so, please explain why...
Yes, I can disagree with that statement. Once I learned it, I found it to
be very intuitive. But to disagree with specificity with that statement,
I'd need a concrete example of what you find to be non-intuitive.
Some things still are a little counterintuitive to me - for example, I've
been playing recently with something that is shown in the new 2.43 feature
videos - building a chain of links, starting with an extruded circle,
rotating the extrusion 90 degrees.
I can get it to do everything in the demo video - follow a bezier curve,
dynamically adjust the number of links based on the length - all of that
works just fine.
But if I try to rescale the link, things go crazy. Links in one direction
get proportionally smaller, while links in the other direction get
proportionally larger.
For what I'm doing, I want to scale things down to a relatively small
scale and then manipulate the object within the context of the scene, but
I can't seem to do that. I have to freeze the construct by converting it
to a mesh (I think that's ultimately what I ended up doing) and then
scaling the new mesh - but I lose the ability to change the curve and
number of links.
But for basic modelling, I find it to be very intuitive -
space->add->mesh->sphere, and a sphere is added where the cursor is. If I
don't like where the cursor is, alt+g to clear the position, alt+r to
clear the rotation, alt+s to clear the scale.
Jim
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On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:40:03 -0700, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>be very intuitive. But to disagree with specificity with that statement,
>I'd need a concrete example of what you find to be non-intuitive.
Uuugh, where to start? Sorry to rant, but...
Let me start off by saying that better context-sensitive menus would go a long way to
help this
application. When you only have vertices selected, why show face functions, edge
functions, etc.
I learned to model efficiently in Wings3d after a few tutorials and a few hours of
playing around.
I realize it is not as powerful of an application as Blender, but it is definitely
intuitive and
easy to figure out for basic modeling and UV mapping.
What's up with not prompting to save on close? I realize you should close with
caution, but
accidents do happen. I have autosave on, but losing five minutes of work can still be
damaging and
frustrating.
The materials and texture interface is somewhat confusing. I'm sure this may be from
my
inexperience, but just trying to find something simple, like which value to set under
which sub
window under which context to scale a material is kind of difficult. Also, I've seen
something to
do with using empties and materials to set the material on an object, but I haven't
figured out what
the heck is up with that yet.
The material nodes interface could be a nice feature, if it controlled all aspects of
the material
and texture, but it doesn't.
The viewport does not display textures properly if you have the textured view selected
in the
viewport shading control. If you have shaded selected, it only displays the material
properly if it
is a detailed mesh or if the mesh is subsurfed for higher detail. I know I can use
render preview,
but that doesn't seem to always update properly when changing material or texture
settings.
Why not have common function on single keystrokes, instead of multiple keystrokes?
For something
like edge loop select, why not just use something like "L", instead of "CTRL + E, 7"?
Also, the
menu says that edge loop select is "CTRL + E, 6", but it is really "CTRL + E, 7" in
2.43.
That's enough ranting for now...
>Some things still are a little counterintuitive to me - for example, I've
>been playing recently with something that is shown in the new 2.43 feature
>videos - building a chain of links, starting with an extruded circle,
>rotating the extrusion 90 degrees.
>
>I can get it to do everything in the demo video - follow a bezier curve,
>dynamically adjust the number of links based on the length - all of that
>works just fine.
>
>But if I try to rescale the link, things go crazy. Links in one direction
>get proportionally smaller, while links in the other direction get
>proportionally larger.
>
>For what I'm doing, I want to scale things down to a relatively small
>scale and then manipulate the object within the context of the scene, but
>I can't seem to do that. I have to freeze the construct by converting it
>to a mesh (I think that's ultimately what I ended up doing) and then
>scaling the new mesh - but I lose the ability to change the curve and
>number of links.
I really like some of the features that I've seen in the demos, such as what you've
just described.
The rigging, skinning and animation features seem very promising.
>But for basic modelling, I find it to be very intuitive -
>space->add->mesh->sphere, and a sphere is added where the cursor is. If I
>don't like where the cursor is, alt+g to clear the position, alt+r to
>clear the rotation, alt+s to clear the scale.
Some of the basics are not too bad, but they could be better with better context
menus. Maybe I'll
feel different after further use...
Kyle
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74t9u21no4tp13avq8fjqq1d1p3ile2t7t@4ax.com...
> Ok, several nights of tutorials, doing some basic modeling, trying to
> figure out the materials and
> textures interface, trying to rotate some vertices around an axis, etc.,
> and I am once again
> extremely frustrated. I'm still going to continue for awhile, but I've
> come to the conclusion that
> the Blender interface just plain sucks out loud. It is completely
> non-intuitive. Does anyone have
> any valid reason to disagree with this statement? If so, please explain
> why...
It seems a-love-it-or-hate it thing. I have tried to use Blender several
times before and once spent a week going through the tutorials. After that I
was able to model simple things but still found the interface painful and
frustrating (and sometimes downright infuriating). I ended up buying a
commercial application because even in the demo mode and without reading
tutorials I was able to do moderately complex stuff and obtain nice renders
in a matter of minutes, not days.
Now lots of people are proficient with Blender and love it, and it's
obviously a very comprehensive piece of software, but I guess that some of
us prefer software with a gentler learning curve.
G.
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On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 17:17:50 -0500, Kyle wrote:
> Let me start off by saying that better context-sensitive menus would go a
> long way to help this application. When you only have vertices selected,
> why show face functions, edge functions, etc.
I can see that, OK.
> I learned to model efficiently in Wings3d after a few tutorials and a few
> hours of playing around. I realize it is not as powerful of an application
> as Blender, but it is definitely intuitive and easy to figure out for
> basic modeling and UV mapping.
I often use Wings3D and Blender in concert - export to LWO and import into
Blender. That seems to be a very popular combination when you want to
combine subdivision modelling with some of the advanced features in
Blender.
> What's up with not prompting to save on close? I realize you should close
> with caution, but accidents do happen. I have autosave on, but losing
> five minutes of work can still be damaging and frustrating.
Depending on your platform, look in the temp directory (on linux it's
/tmp) for the file quit.blend - that's saved on exit without being
prompted. Had to use that last night, as I accidentally hit ALT+F4 while
working on something.
> The materials and texture interface is somewhat confusing. I'm sure this
> may be from my inexperience, but just trying to find something simple,
> like which value to set under which sub window under which context to
> scale a material is kind of difficult. Also, I've seen something to do
> with using empties and materials to set the material on an object, but I
> haven't figured out what the heck is up with that yet.
I'll admit to not being good with materials in general, and I haven't
ventured into doing procedural materials or textures as of yet.
> The viewport does not display textures properly if you have the textured
> view selected in the viewport shading control. If you have shaded
> selected, it only displays the material properly if it is a detailed mesh
> or if the mesh is subsurfed for higher detail. I know I can use render
> preview, but that doesn't seem to always update properly when changing
> material or texture settings.
Blender does seem to assume you're using UV maps for textures often when
not; I usually go for the shaded output, but I also tend to do a lot of
test renders while I'm working if I'm not sure of the texture in the scene.
> Why not have common function on single keystrokes, instead of multiple
> keystrokes? For something like edge loop select, why not just use
> something like "L", instead of "CTRL + E, 7"?
CTRL+E is the edge menu, I find that once I associate the menus with what
they do, that helps a lot. With as many functions as there are, defining
"common" for everyone could be fairly difficult. For example, I never use
edge loops (at least I haven't had to yet), so wasting the L key on
something I never use rather than on something that I do use (not sure
what the key is assigned to). That becomes something very much in the eye
of the beholder, so I find this key selection logical because it groups
functions together by a classification.
> Also, the menu says that
> edge loop select is "CTRL + E, 6", but it is really "CTRL + E, 7" in 2.43.
That would be called a "bug". It happens in software development. ;-)
> I really like some of the features that I've seen in the demos, such as
> what you've just described. The rigging, skinning and animation features
> seem very promising.
Yes, I think that's a very strong point, which is part of the reason I
combine tools. Some of the deformation tools new in 2.43 are interesting
to work with, too.
Jim
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!!!!!!!
Kyle
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"Kyle" <hob### [at] gatenet> schreef in bericht
news:qqmj0398656cfepalh6g9t1p5hn84tvhdt@4ax.com...
> Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!!!!!!!
>
Is that good or bad news??? :-)
(sounds pretty bad... like the madman in Bram Stoker's Dracula, the book,
not the film)
Thomas
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On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 14:12:08 +0200, "Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet>
wrote:
>Is that good or bad news??? :-)
Bad. That's me yelling in frustration at the Blender interface, yet again. I keep
getting into situations where hunting around for how to do something in Blender takes
*way* longer than actually
doing the work. I'll think to myself, "I'm pretty sure Blender can do this, but
where's the magic button or hidden menu selection? Hmm, maybe it can't be done..."
Then I'll: <Search around the
interface some more> <Search the Internet> Then discovery, "Oh wait, here it is.
Now, what was I doing to begin with?"
Anyway, I'm trying to continue on with an open mind...
Kyle
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"Kyle" <hob### [at] gatenet> schreef in bericht
news:jork03liug437a9etbrhv3h62922ejr4mv@4ax.com...
>
> Anyway, I'm trying to continue on with an open mind...
>
Excellent. I admire your perseverance.
One day I may follow your tracks... When I have more time
Thomas
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