Would it be possible to simulate photons with the wave model of light?  I'm
not a programmer, but I think this can be done.  Also, are there any
physical situations where light acts as a particle? The only two I know are
the Photoelectric Effect and Blackbody Radiation.

__________________
 Yours truly,

                  RAY

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RAY <PCH### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> Would it be possible to simulate photons with the wave model of light?

  It would be quite difficult and heavy to simulate. Analytically it would
be probably impossible, and even numerically it would probably require quite
a lot of calculations.

> Also, are there any
> physical situations where light acts as a particle?

  For the effects which photons are used for, ie. caustics, it doesn't
matter how you model it. The result will be the same. Modelling them as
particles, that is, as rays, is just a lot easier and faster.

  The situations where light acts like particles are such that they are
not visible to the eye and thus not useful in practice. One such situation
is when a photon can collide with a free electron, deviating its course
(I don't remember the name of this effect).
  There are situations where the wave-nature of light is visible to the
naked eye, for example some interference effects. However, as I said, this
is just too difficult to model and seldom useful as well.

-- 
#macro N(D)#if(D>99)cylinder{M()#local D=div(D,104);M().5,2pigment{rgb M()}}
N(D)#end#end#macro M()<mod(D,13)-6mod(div(D,13)8)-3,10>#end blob{
N(11117333955)N(4254934330)N(3900569407)N(7382340)N(3358)N(970)}//  - Warp -

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"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message
news:3c90ba08@news.povray.org...

>One such situation
> is when a photon can collide with a free electron, deviating its course
> (I don't remember the name of this effect).

Compton Scaterring

>   There are situations where the wave-nature of light is visible to the
> naked eye, for example some interference effects. However, as I said, this
> is just too difficult to model and seldom useful as well.
>
This is the Young double slit experiment.  Check out this web site:
http://members.tripod.com/~vsg/interf.htm
Maan

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On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:05:22 -0600, "RAY" <PCH### [at] yahoocom>
wrote:

>Would it be possible to simulate photons with the wave model of light?  I'm
>not a programmer, but I think this can be done.

Frequency and phase, and thus interference, can be calculated quite
easily using the wave propagation equation. All you need is to convert
the rgb color of a ray into spectral data <g>

As of wave effects such as diffraction, I suppose the right answer
would be "no."


Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] vipbg
TAG      e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg

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> > Would it be possible to simulate photons with the wave model of light?
>
>   It would be quite difficult and heavy to simulate. Analytically it would
> be probably impossible, and even numerically it would probably require
quite
> a lot of calculations.
>
> > Also, are there any
> > physical situations where light acts as a particle?
I meant to say visible.
>   For the effects which photons are used for, ie. caustics, it doesn't
> matter how you model it. The result will be the same. Modelling them as
> particles, that is, as rays, is just a lot easier and faster.
>
>   The situations where light acts like particles are such that they are
> not visible to the eye and thus not useful in practice. One such situation
> is when a photon can collide with a free electron, deviating its course
> (I don't remember the name of this effect).
>   There are situations where the wave-nature of light is visible to the
> naked eye, for example some interference effects. However, as I said, this
> is just too difficult to model and seldom useful as well.
So there are no visible reasons for POV to calculate photons as particles,
as waves are more realistic for photons?
    I have found equasions for the wave aspect of light, with some functions
out of a Calculus/Physics book you can calculate photons with light's wave
aspect, correct?

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RAY <RAY### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> So there are no visible reasons for POV to calculate photons as particles,
> as waves are more realistic for photons?

  Didn't you read what I wrote?
  For caustics, which photons are used for, it doesn't matter how you model
the light. It's just that modelling light as rays is easier and faster and
more accurate.
  Why do something a lot harder and slower to get the exact same image (or
even a worse image)?

-- 
#macro M(A,N,D,L)plane{-z,-9pigment{mandel L*9translate N color_map{[0rgb x]
[1rgb 9]}scale<D,D*3D>*1e3}rotate y*A*8}#end M(-3<1.206434.28623>70,7)M(
-1<.7438.1795>1,20)M(1<.77595.13699>30,20)M(3<.75923.07145>80,99)// - Warp -

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> > So there are no visible reasons for POV to calculate photons as
particles,
> > as waves are more realistic for photons?
>
>   Didn't you read what I wrote?
>   For caustics, which photons are used for, it doesn't matter how you
model
> the light. It's just that modelling light as rays is easier and faster and
> more accurate.
>   Why do something a lot harder and slower to get the exact same image (or
> even a worse image)?
To do realistic refraction (two slit experiment) and if you can have the
camera rays do this, bending of light around objects (it's there, just VERY
slight).

--
__________________
 RAY

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> >Would it be possible to simulate photons with the wave model of light?
I'm
> >not a programmer, but I think this can be done.
>
> Frequency and phase, and thus interference, can be calculated quite
> easily using the wave propagation equation. All you need is to convert
> the rgb color of a ray into spectral data <g>
Yes, I you could use the irid_wavelength for interference and diffraction
> As of wave effects such as diffraction, I suppose the right answer
> would be "no."
I once saw some diffraction equations on a website.  They were only for
slits, but I bet there are some formulas somewhere.
You could make a nice CD this way (or a diffraction grating) and have real
effects.
--
__________________
 RAY

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RAY <RAY### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> To do realistic refraction (two slit experiment)

  That's not refraction but interference, which is a completely different
phenomenon.

-- 
#macro M(A,N,D,L)plane{-z,-9pigment{mandel L*9translate N color_map{[0rgb x]
[1rgb 9]}scale<D,D*3D>*1e3}rotate y*A*8}#end M(-3<1.206434.28623>70,7)M(
-1<.7438.1795>1,20)M(1<.77595.13699>30,20)M(3<.75923.07145>80,99)// - Warp -

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"RAY" <RAY### [at] yahoocom> wrote in message news:3c995155@news.povray.org...

> To do realistic refraction (two slit experiment) and if you can have the
> camera rays do this, bending of light around objects (it's there, just
VERY
> slight).

This is not refraction, but interference.  Check Young's Experiment on this
subject.
Maan

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