On 26 Jul 1999 09:46:56 -0400, par### [at] fwicom (Ron Parker) wrote:

>Well, you're right there.  Other finite objects would be tough, too.  
>Ferinstance, I don't want to think about the Julia object.  But it'd
>be nice for the objects people actually tend to use. 

Ahem, just what are you trying to imply, Ron? For Pete's sake, I've
rendered more Julias than anything else (even spheres). Then again, I
might be nuts :)

Seriously, Pascal Massimino's page is hosted on povray.org . I think I
saw something about tesselating a Julia object there.

>>  What about csg?
>
>CSG probably isn't a problem.  It can be done, it's just a Simple
>Matter of Programming.  Lots of programming, that is.

:)
I second that. Most 3D packages (I'm talking scanline here) have some
sort of boolean operations.


Peter Popov
ICQ: 15002700

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Why testellate the Julia object? What do you want to do? Twist it? <g>

Margus

Peter Popov wrote:
> 
> On 26 Jul 1999 09:46:56 -0400, par### [at] fwicom (Ron Parker) wrote:
> 
> >Well, you're right there.  Other finite objects would be tough, too.
> >Ferinstance, I don't want to think about the Julia object.  But it'd
> >be nice for the objects people actually tend to use.
> 
> Ahem, just what are you trying to imply, Ron? For Pete's sake, I've
> rendered more Julias than anything else (even spheres). Then again, I
> might be nuts :)
> 
> Seriously, Pascal Massimino's page is hosted on povray.org . I think I
> saw something about tesselating a Julia object there.
> 
> >>  What about csg?
> >
> >CSG probably isn't a problem.  It can be done, it's just a Simple
> >Matter of Programming.  Lots of programming, that is.
> 
> :)
> I second that. Most 3D packages (I'm talking scanline here) have some
> sort of boolean operations.
> 
> Peter Popov
> ICQ: 15002700

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On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:55:45 +0300, Margus Ramst <mar### [at] peakeduee>
wrote:

>Why testellate the Julia object? What do you want to do? Twist it? <g>
>
>Margus

Implement it in Moray? <--G--> Export it to VRML and have a Realtime
Spinning Julia Frenzy party? Calculate the electrostatic field around
it? You name it...



Peter Popov
ICQ: 15002700

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Peter Popov wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:55:45 +0300, Margus Ramst <mar### [at] peakeduee>
> wrote:
> 
> >Why testellate the Julia object? What do you want to do? Twist it? <g>
> >
> >Margus
> 
> Implement it in Moray? <--G--> Export it to VRML and have a Realtime
> Spinning Julia Frenzy party? Calculate the electrostatic field around
> it? You name it...

I would like to serve mine up with whip cream and strawberries...

-- 
Ken Tyler
  
mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/links.htm

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A question:
  Is all this triangulation of objects worth the efforts? Ok, you get a
preview. So what? I think that there are many other things more important
for the povteam to do than worrying about previews. Making trianguation
code for _all_ the objects is not a trivial thing and the benefits are
questionable. If you want a preview, use a modeller.
  And besides, implementing an OpenGL or whatever preview would make povray
non-portable.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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haha, some of you just knew I was going to reply to this didn't you?  ;-)

>Ahem... Ehh... Why does 3DS scream in my eyes when I read this? *sighs*
>The basic idea of pov is a raytracer, not a cheap hack at a mesh
>handler...

Well, when it comes to 3DS, you're right, it SUCKS!  However, I must note
that there is a MASSIVE difference between 3D Studio and 3D Studio MAX.  3D
Studio isn't even considered a product any more (and it's not sold from
authorised dealers).

The fact is that meshes are extremely powerful and CAN produce perfect image
quality if the artist and the renderer are careful.  The introduction of
such techniques as NURBS and adaptive degradation make meshes perfectly
smooth (finally!!!).

So in conclusion, leave POV-Ray the way it is because as a raytracer it
ROCKS!  And second, please don't criticise renderers that you haven't used
the latest version of (for more than a month)  :)

hehe, OK, that's my 2 cents, feel free to flame me now.

--
Lance.


---
For the latest 3D Studio MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone
For a totally different experience, visit my Chroma Key Website:
Colorblind - http://listen.to/colorblind

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Once again, I must comment :)

>thousands of spheres (using Biowin) , and from my experience there's *no
>way* that I'd be able to use more than a few hundred spheres in a mesh
based
>program. As far as I'm concerned, it's the use of mathematically defined

Well actually I've done a scene with over 5 million triangles and it wasn't
that bad.  Actually just the other day I imported a protein model of 5000 or
so atoms and connections and it didn't really have a problem (took a few
minutes to load initially but after that there were no problems).

> it is both faster and less memory intensive to create. 3ds max to create
> an equivalent smooth sphere without using surface normal smoothing
> requires 1000's of triangles to represent

Very true for POV-Ray's architecture.  POV-Ray just wasn't meant to load
millions of triangles.  The number of triangles I usually use for a
geosphere (not a sphere, a geosphere, which is much more optimal) is about
200-800 or above if I need extra smoothness of the camera is particularly
close.  If it's a variable range thing, I just make the sphere a NURBS
surface and let the renderer figure it out :)

But of course once again, it depends on the program.  And once again, I must
say that I think POV-Ray should be left as it is.

--
Lance.


---
For the latest 3D Studio MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone
For a totally different experience, visit my Chroma Key Website:
Colorblind - http://listen.to/colorblind

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I AGREE!!!  :)

--
Lance.


---
For the latest 3D Studio MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone
For a totally different experience, visit my Chroma Key Website:
Colorblind - http://listen.to/colorblind
Nieminen Mika wrote in message <379d50a0@news.povray.org>...
>  A question:
>  Is all this triangulation of objects worth the efforts? Ok, you get a
>preview. So what? I think that there are many other things more important
>for the povteam to do than worrying about previews. Making trianguation
>code for _all_ the objects is not a trivial thing and the benefits are
>questionable. If you want a preview, use a modeller.
>  And besides, implementing an OpenGL or whatever preview would make povray
>non-portable.
>
>--
>main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
>):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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>I second that. Most 3D packages (I'm talking scanline here) have some
>sort of boolean operations.

hehe, from my experiance they're not very good either :)  Sure, it can be
done, but there are LOTS of problems associated with it.  This was
particularly true with MAX 1.2 and 2.0 (2.5 fixed it to most extents and it
works very well now).  But have you ever taken a mesh of a text object and
tried to do an intersection of it with another text object at 90 degrees?
(in a mesh program?)

That's the main problem, booleaning with meshes doesn't always work very
well.

--
Lance.


---
For the latest 3D Studio MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone
For a totally different experience, visit my Chroma Key Website:
Colorblind - http://listen.to/colorblind

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The answer, I think, has been discussed for quite a while.
Non-linear transformations is the main benefit I see. And not a small one at
that.

Margus

Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
>   A question:
>   Is all this triangulation of objects worth the efforts? Ok, you get a
> preview. So what? I think that there are many other things more important
> for the povteam to do than worrying about previews. Making trianguation
> code for _all_ the objects is not a trivial thing and the benefits are
> questionable. If you want a preview, use a modeller.
>   And besides, implementing an OpenGL or whatever preview would make povray
> non-portable.
> 
> --
> main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
> ):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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