"alphaQuad" <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote in message 
news:web.474784def00b7879d77963a0@news.povray.org...

> The amount got us wondering: What would $611 billion buy?


     Me? A *BIG* smile.   ;)


        ~Steve~

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"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote in message news:4749e2e3$1@news.povray.org...
>
> "alphaQuad" <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote in message 
> news:web.474784def00b7879d77963a0@news.povray.org...
>
>> The amount got us wondering: What would $611 billion buy?
>
>
>     Me? A *BIG* smile.   ;)


       And the best curry in the world... :)


           ~Steve~

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>> The amount got us wondering: What would $611 billion buy?
>      Me? A *BIG* smile.   ;)

<Connery> What can you do with seven billion dollars that you can't do 
with four? </Connery>

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     It's not feature creep if you put it
     at the end and adjust the release date.

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"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message 
news:474a43b9$1@news.povray.org...
>>> The amount got us wondering: What would $611 billion buy?
>>      Me? A *BIG* smile.   ;)
>
> <Connery> What can you do with seven billion dollars that you can't do 
> with four? </Connery>

      Heh, funnily enough, that's exactly what I've told my children when 




keep me busy, and not lazy.  ;)


       ~Steve~



>
> -- 
>   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
>     It's not feature creep if you put it
>     at the end and adjust the release date.

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And lo on Sun, 25 Nov 2007 04:33:33 -0000, John VanSickle  
<evi### [at] hotmailcom> did spake, saying:

> Darren New wrote:
>> Warp wrote:
>>> especially taking into account how many years it takes
>>> to build a civilization which can support itself.
>>  I suspect you'd mostly have to replace the government with something  
>> that respected basic property rights before pouring money in would help  
>> anything. If you're going to kick out successful farmers and hand the  
>> land over to cronies who don't know how to manage it, you're going to  
>> have famines regardless of how much cash gets dumped into the economy.
>
> And if you institute honest government, the charity quickly becomes  
> unnecessary.

It would speed up the process enormously, but unnecessary?

> The only reason the West got an economic leap on the rest of the world  
> is because our forebears reduced the crookedness of the government by a  
> sufficient degree to free up wealth for capital formation.

To be precise the reducation lowered the entry fee allowing a lot more  
people to join in the game. Then you just sit back and hope for a critical  
mass.

>  In much of the world the situation is that as soon as you have two  
> pennies to rub together, someone from the government takes one of them  
> (if not both).

I believe it's called tax :-)

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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Was thinking collecting a thread digest of intelligent contributions.
That would be nearly the entire thread. So I'll probably leave out some of the
best quotes

JIM HENDERSON
Arguably, you can't bomb them into becoming a western culture, either.

The fact that it is more than just throwing money at the problem of world hunger
doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

GAIL SHAW
.... It's going to take money and a lot of hard work. Probably more of the latter
than of the former. It's also going to take effort over a long period of time.
15 years is probably a conservative estimate.

Education, good governance, sustainable farming practices, mining technologies,
entrepreneurship, etc. Handing out money then sitting back is a recipe for
absolute disaster. On the one hand it encourages corruption (and there's enough
of that around here anyway) and on the other it results in people with a sense
of entitlement, 'the world owes me a living' (and there's a fair bit of that
around here too)

DARREN (seen Samantha?)
I suspect you'd mostly have to replace the government with something
that respected basic property rights before pouring money in would help
anything. If you're going to kick out successful farmers and hand the
land over to cronies who don't know how to manage it, you're going to
have famines regardless of how much cash gets dumped into the economy.

JOHN VAN SICKLE
And if you institute honest government, the charity quickly becomes
unnecessary.

The only reason the West got an economic leap on the rest of the world
is because our forebears reduced the crookedness of the government by a
sufficient degree to free up wealth for capital formation.  In much of
the world the situation is that as soon as you have two pennies to rub
together, someone from the government takes one of them (if not both).

My Fav
ANDREL
I don't know if I have seen this one, but I am sure
Groucho will have some prime examples of being horribly rude while at
the same time being well spoken and intelligent. Watch and learn.





of a better use of government resources than the current situation of a few
dark souls stealing the world blind from America to Iraq and several places in
between. (gotta quit those long sentences)

The thread was about the feeling the Ice Sculpture invoked in some of us. I

except maybe by the words that followed.

The Subjects are clearly not in our visible world (any more). And Something
tragic.

Quote from those who gave their all to investigate and report.
"
Even in the face of this mountain of facts, there will still be those who will
go into denial and casually dismiss this whole case as just another silly
"conspiracy theory". But the silliest "conspiracy theory" of all is the theory
that some Saudi caveman and his "network" of Arab students managed to elude US
investigators and pull off the most sophisticated intelligence operation in
world history. You can continue to believe that fairy tale if it makes you
sleep better at night and if your sense of credulity can stand the burden.
"

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Gail Shaw wrote:
> "Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message
> news:47487b0a@news.povray.org...
>> alphaQuad <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote:
>>> Solving world hunger is not such a
>>> difficult accomplishment.
>>   Actually it is.
> 
> So you'd rather do nothing than try and possibly fail?

If we don't reform the underlying causes of poverty, long-term failure 
is a certainty, and not merely a possibility.  It's been tried.

Regards,
John

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On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 23:33:33 -0500, John VanSickle wrote:

> And if you institute honest government

I don't believe there is such a thing, personally.  All government is 
dishonest to some extent.

Jim

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On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 17:03:16 -0500, Warp wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> The fact that it is more than just throwing money at the problem of
>> world hunger doesn't mean we shouldn't try.  I don't believe that's
>> what you're trying to say, though.
> 
>   The current aid model just doesn't work, that's what I'm saying. It's
> only alleviating the symptoms slightly and temporarily, while making the
> underlying problem worse, increasing dependency of the poor nations on
> this aid and killing local entrepreneurship. Thinking that "50 billion
> dollars a year will solve world hunger in 20 years" is naive and just
> doesn't work.

Agreed, but in the proposal listed, there wasn't a lot of detail - it 
could well have been suggesting not just charity (ie, "give them some 
food", but actually try to affect some change.)  There just wasn't enough 
detail in the proposed solution about how the money was intended to do 
that.

>   And with this I'm not saying that poor nations should not be helped
> at all.

Honestly, I would've been surprised if that *had* been what you were 
saying.   :-)

Jim

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If you'd like a small taste of what it's like to try and feed your family in the
places in the world that suffer starvation, try this simulation:

http://www.3rdworldfarmer.com/


The problem is indeed complicated.  I do suggest you try the simulation--see how
many times your family starves before you can make it work.

Another problem not yet addressed is the "brain drain."  Even if you are able to
provide education, when someone in these nations is given an opportunity, they
will often leave and go to more stable countries.  The result is that those who
obtain education and might have been able to help the nation tend to leave, and
never return.

History is also a large obstacle.  In many nations, the presence of Westerners
is not a welcome one.  The long history of colonialism and Western
ethno-centrism has a left a deep scar on much of the "third-world".  Even
outright charitable gifts are suspect, and more complicated endeavors are even
less trusted.

Famine is rarely caused by drought or the inability to produce food, because
people settle in places where food is available.  Famine is caused by war,
corruption, and other forms of societal injustice.  Unfortunately these
problems are far more complicated, and there is no universal answer for all of
them.

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