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On Sat, 01 May 2010 17:10:09 -0400, Warp wrote:
> How can you compare asking someone's ID to putting someone in prison?
> Aren't you exaggerating a bit here?
NO! That's the point - if you LOOK like an illegal immigrant, you have
to provide on the spot PROOF that you're not, and if you can't, YOU GO TO
JAIL. That's what the law is all about.
Jim
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On Sat, 01 May 2010 14:58:23 -0400, Warp wrote:
> Why is it so only with immigration? If the suspect of a crime is a
> white
> male, is it racism to question only white males? Wouldn't it be less
> racist to question also black females? You know, for equality.
Wrong. If a suspect in a *specific* crime is a white male, then
naturally you look at people who match the suspect's description.
But this law makes "Being brown and unable to prove you're here legally
when asked" a crime.
Big difference.
Jim
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On Sat, 01 May 2010 14:50:06 -0400, Warp wrote:
> If find your argument that "the police should not be looking for the
> illegal immigrant because doing so might offend someone" even more
> disturbing.
In the US, we're supposed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.
You're starting with a presumption of guilt, which goes against the
ideals under which this law is created.
That's why the law is a problem: It starts with a presumption of guilt
based on skin colour, and requires that the "suspect" prove their
innocence of being an illegal immigrant.
Based. On. Skin. Colour.
Nothing else. If you *look* like an illegal, you are presumed guilty
until you prove otherwise. This could be a daily occurrence IF YOU
HAPPEN TO HAVE THE WRONG COLOUR SKIN.
Hell, it could happen HOURLY.
Wouldn't that piss YOU off if YOU were constantly having to prove that
you were in your country legally?
Jim
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On Sat, 01 May 2010 23:31:13 +0200, andrel wrote:
> On 1-5-2010 18:36, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Sat, 01 May 2010 11:48:15 -0400, John VanSickle wrote:
>>
>>> You can take your kids with you or you can leave them behind. Sure,
>>> it is not their fault that you broke the law, but if that didn't stop
>>> you from breaking the law, why should it stop us from enforcing it?
>>
>> I don't think that this is what Darren was saying, but rather that the
>> Arizona law opens the potential for someone who *is* a legal citizen
>> but isn't carrying their papers on them to be deported. But the idea
>> behind deporting someone to their country of origin is not valid when
>> their country of origin *is* in fact the US.
>
> Isn't there a problem that if somebody does not have papers you won't
> know where to send him/her?
We have that situation already here in the US. Typically people whose
country of origin can't be determined are detained indefinitely.
Jim
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On Sat, 01 May 2010 11:10:11 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> I don't think that this is what Darren was saying, but rather that the
>> Arizona law opens the potential for someone who *is* a legal citizen
>> but isn't carrying their papers on them to be deported.
>
> No. I'm saying that some people want to pass a law to deport someone who
> *is* a legal citizen and who *is* carrying their passport to be deported
> because they were born of illegal immigrants.
OIC, that is also a problem sure.
Jim
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On Sat, 01 May 2010 16:45:04 -0400, Warp wrote:
> My point is that if someone commits a serious crime, it could be quite
> practical if it was possible to throw him out of the country to stop him
> from wasting taxpayers' money. In other words, the plain idea of
> deporting big criminals can have some sensible logic in it.
Except that the person's country of origin is frequently unlikely to
accept them back if they've committed a crime. That happens quite
frequently, actually, when illegal immigrants commit crimes - their
actual home country refuses to take them back.
Jim
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On 01/05/2010 11:33 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Sat, 01 May 2010 17:49:19 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>> O! say does that star-spangled banner yet wave O'er the land of the free
>> and the home of the brave?
>>
>> No offence folks
>
> None taken, the law in and of itself is the offensive bit.
>
True
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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On 01/05/2010 11:35 PM, andrel wrote:
> On 1-5-2010 23:47, Stephen wrote:
>> On 01/05/2010 10:18 PM, andrel wrote:
>
>> Good guess and said better than I could but I just don't want anyone
>> to live in a Nazi state.
>>
>
> Does that 'but' imply that I do?
No, I think that your country has good credentials.
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospam com> wrote:
> On Sat, 01 May 2010 16:45:04 -0400, Warp wrote:
> > My point is that if someone commits a serious crime, it could be quite
> > practical if it was possible to throw him out of the country to stop him
> > from wasting taxpayers' money. In other words, the plain idea of
> > deporting big criminals can have some sensible logic in it.
> Except that the person's country of origin is frequently unlikely to
> accept them back if they've committed a crime. That happens quite
> frequently, actually, when illegal immigrants commit crimes - their
> actual home country refuses to take them back.
If he is an illegal immigrant, why should the country he illegally
entered take responsibility? It's his own country's problem.
--
- Warp
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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> > Isn't there a problem that if somebody does not have papers you won't
> > know where to send him/her?
> We have that situation already here in the US. Typically people whose
> country of origin can't be determined are detained indefinitely.
Guess what's the most common tactic of people who want to get inside
the European Union and not get deported? Make it as hard as possible to
determine where they come from.
--
- Warp
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