>> Sure. But I also know that an insurance company's job is to not pay out
>> under any circumstances whatsoever. Their entire business model is based
>> on preventing customers getting the money they're due. The fact that
>> insurance companies are all doing so well indicates that they must have
>> got very, very good at this.
> 
> That doesn't mean that they never pay out, though.  In cases of 
> catastropic events, they're required by law to pay out.

Sure, they're legally obliged to pay out. But if you've just lost your 
house and you are now penniless... what are you going to do? Sue them? 
Oh, wait, you have no money. :-P

> If they never paid out, then people wouldn't buy insurance.

Maybe I'm just bitter. I paid £900 for a moped. When it was stolen, they 
gave me £25. Later I paid $1,200 for a car. When it was crashed, they 
gave me £75. I mean, seriously, it was *so* worth paying £700 per year 
in insurance premiums for that.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> 2. House prices appear to start at around £300,000 or so. The very best,
>> most unobtainable jobs pay £30,000/year. That's a pretty friggin huge
>> gap.
> 
> Mortgages tend to be amortized over a 15 or 30 year period, at least over 
> here.  Ours is about $1500/month.

£300,000 divided by 30 years = £10,000 per year. So, a third of the 
highest income available. And that's neglecting the fact that they 
presumably charge you 80% APR or so on the loan...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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> adrenaline produces a euphoric effect.

Since when?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:05:45 +0000, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>> adrenaline produces a euphoric effect.
> 
> Since when?

Always.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenaline_Rush

That's what you're experiencing, and it's common for people who do really 
intense working out.

Jim

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On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:04:13 +0000, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> 2. House prices appear to start at around £300,000 or so. The very
>>> best, most unobtainable jobs pay £30,000/year. That's a pretty friggin
>>> huge gap.
>> 
>> Mortgages tend to be amortized over a 15 or 30 year period, at least
>> over here.  Ours is about $1500/month.
> 
> £300,000 divided by 30 years = £10,000 per year. So, a third of the
> highest income available. And that's neglecting the fact that they
> presumably charge you 80% APR or so on the loan...

80% is illegal pretty much everywhere.  Try more like 5%-7% for the 
average.

And 30K is not the "highest income available" - I know plenty of people 
who make more than that.

Clearly it's not an impossible feat as there are millions of homeowners 
in the UK, right?

Jim

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> Maybe I'm just bitter. I paid £900 for a moped. When it was stolen, they 
> gave me £25. Later I paid $1,200 for a car. When it was crashed, they 
> gave me £75. I mean, seriously, it was *so* worth paying £700 per year 
> in insurance premiums for that.
> 

What would have happened if you had been involved in an accident and you 
had been liable for costs of over £100000?
-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:02:28 +0000, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> Sure. But I also know that an insurance company's job is to not pay
>>> out under any circumstances whatsoever. Their entire business model is
>>> based on preventing customers getting the money they're due. The fact
>>> that insurance companies are all doing so well indicates that they
>>> must have got very, very good at this.
>> 
>> That doesn't mean that they never pay out, though.  In cases of
>> catastropic events, they're required by law to pay out.
> 
> Sure, they're legally obliged to pay out. But if you've just lost your
> house and you are now penniless... what are you going to do? Sue them?
> Oh, wait, you have no money. :-P

If they don't pay out, you take it (in the US) to the district attorney 
and let the state prosecute it.

>> If they never paid out, then people wouldn't buy insurance.
> 
> Maybe I'm just bitter. I paid £900 for a moped. When it was stolen, they
> gave me £25. Later I paid $1,200 for a car. When it was crashed, they
> gave me £75. I mean, seriously, it was *so* worth paying £700 per year
> in insurance premiums for that.

It seems that you didn't have very good coverage.  I can see that that 
kind of payout would make you bitter about it; the reality for most 
people is generally different - though it sometimes does take time, 
energy, and work to get them to pay out at an appropriate level.

I live not far from a very large fault line, and we're late for "the big 
one" (earthquake) by about 20 years.  Earthquake insurance is a required 
part of our policy, and if it does hit, the company will take care of 
things for us.

Jim

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>> Sure, they're legally obliged to pay out. But if you've just lost your
>> house and you are now penniless... what are you going to do? Sue them?
>> Oh, wait, you have no money. :-P
> 
> If they don't pay out, you take it (in the US) to the district attorney 
> and let the state prosecute it.

I have no idea if that works in the UK.

>>> If they never paid out, then people wouldn't buy insurance.
>> Maybe I'm just bitter. I paid £900 for a moped. When it was stolen, they
>> gave me £25. Later I paid $1,200 for a car. When it was crashed, they
>> gave me £75. I mean, seriously, it was *so* worth paying £700 per year
>> in insurance premiums for that.
> 
> It seems that you didn't have very good coverage.

Apparently.

> I live not far from a very large fault line, and we're late for "the big 
> one" (earthquake) by about 20 years.  Earthquake insurance is a required 
> part of our policy, and if it does hit, the company will take care of 
> things for us.

...unless the company gets liquidated. ;-) (What? How many banks have 
been liquidated recently?)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> £300,000 divided by 30 years = £10,000 per year. So, a third of the
>> highest income available. And that's neglecting the fact that they
>> presumably charge you 80% APR or so on the loan...
> 
> 80% is illegal pretty much everywhere.  Try more like 5%-7% for the 
> average.

Illegal? That's impressive. I wonder how the banks have managed to not 
campaign to get that "fixed". You know, given that banks basically 
operate by extorting money from people...

> And 30K is not the "highest income available" - I know plenty of people 
> who make more than that.

OK, I rephrase. If you happen to be a doctor or a politician or have a 
PhD in something, sure, maybe you can earn more than £30,000 a year. I 
personally don't know of anybody who has managed to do this. (With the 
obvious exception of the upper management at the company I work for.)

> Clearly it's not an impossible feat as there are millions of homeowners 
> in the UK, right?

As I understand it, most of them bought houses before the prices became 
as stupid as they are today...

(I gather the idea was that eventually when prices were so high nobody 
could afford them, prices would start to come back down again. Instead, 
the banking sector went thermonuclear.)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:25:17 +0000, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> Sure, they're legally obliged to pay out. But if you've just lost your
>>> house and you are now penniless... what are you going to do? Sue them?
>>> Oh, wait, you have no money. :-P
>> 
>> If they don't pay out, you take it (in the US) to the district attorney
>> and let the state prosecute it.
> 
> I have no idea if that works in the UK.

It seems like something the CPS would look into, but I don't know much 
about the fraud laws in the UK.

>> I live not far from a very large fault line, and we're late for "the
>> big one" (earthquake) by about 20 years.  Earthquake insurance is a
>> required part of our policy, and if it does hit, the company will take
>> care of things for us.
> 
> ...unless the company gets liquidated. ;-) (What? How many banks have
> been liquidated recently?)

There's still a liability that the insurance company (which is not a 
bank) has to fulfill on even in the event of bankruptcy.

Jim

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