On 26-10-2009 16:57, Shay wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>  > On 26-10-2009 1:42, Shay wrote:
>  >> Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:
>  >>>
>  >>> I'm 41 as of yesterday.
>  >>
>  >> Happy birthday.
>  >
>  > Thanks. Oh, it wasn't directed to me. (47 today)
> 
> Happy birthday to you, Andrel.
> 

Thanks ;)

>  >
>  > Some of those wheels may have been more like balls. Anyway,
>  > are you sure other people feel the same way about you being
>  > unproductive?
> 
> A matter of perspective. I have a very good analogy in mind.
> 
> My uncle creates custom carpentry. Today he'll build a chair, tomorrow a 
> door, and next week a roll-top desk. He is able to apply his aptitudes 
> and experience to each of these projects and produce an acceptable 
> number of quality pieces. As remuneration for this production, he 
> receives a nice living along with challenge and satisfaction for himself.
> 
> However, having one day spent six hours on a single custom chair, he 
> could the next day produce ten identical chairs in the same amount of 
> time. This would be less challenging and produce less job satisfaction 
> but would bring him other, more tangible rewards ($$$$, more time with 
> his wife).
> 
> There are rewards for doing and rewards for having done. I find the 
> former more appealing, but do recognize that the rewards for doing 
> evaporate the moment the doing is complete and (perhaps more 
> importantly) that the rewards for doing are not easily shared with 
> others. I suspect I will always prefer the rewards for doing, but am 
> curious to experience the rewards for having done.

For some reason I would still call your uncle productive and therefore 
you as well.

I do sort of the same. I have made plaster casts for ceramics. For me 
the process is the important thing. After the cast is finished I make 
one or at most a few ceramic things with it. If I do more than one that 
is because I want to see the effect of a different firing technique.
After I made them I don't care if somebody else uses them too.
If I want to make money with it (I don't, still happily working in 
cardiology and in teaching), I need somebody else to help me.

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andrel wrote:
> On 26-10-2009 16:57, Shay wrote:
> 
> For some reason I would still call your uncle productive and therefore 
> you as well.
> 
> I do sort of the same. I have made plaster casts for ceramics. For me 
> the process is the important thing. After the cast is finished I make 
> one or at most a few ceramic things with it. If I do more than one that 
> is because I want to see the effect of a different firing technique.
> After I made them I don't care if somebody else uses them too.
> If I want to make money with it (I don't, still happily working in 
> cardiology and in teaching), I need somebody else to help me.

Money? Turning a lot of time into a little bit of money isn't what I had 
in mind.

I should know more about ceramics. I've seen three generations of my 
family work with them. But, I don't, so I'll have to explain myself 
through my own areas of knowledge and allow you to draw the parallels.

Two of my long-term interests have been POV-Ray and songwriting. POV-Ray 
is a "rewards of doing" interest. I don't usually show my pictures to 
anyone (even my wife) outside of this newsgroup and recognize that the 
subtleties on which I spend so much time are there for the benefit of 
making me happy. I can do difficult things in POV-Ray, but beating WOW 
is probably pretty difficult to and no one is going to care beyond the 
person doing it. Both POV-Ray and WOW are done by people sitting by 
themselves in front of their computers for hours on end and the joy of 
"beating" either is very short-lived.

Songwriting is, however, a "rewards of having done" interest. I don't 
enjoy the act as much, but don't mind saying that I'm very good at it 
and can creative impressive work in a short amount of time. Having done 
this, I can then share the work with musicians as we develop the song to 
completion. Friends /ask/ to hear songs I have written and the 
recordings are as or more exciting to the musicians performing them as 
they are to me.

I'm just extroverted enough to enjoy that recognition, but not 
extroverted enough to be motivated by it, so my experiments with 
"rewards of having done" activities are moving at a very slow pace.

....... Just though of another analogy. People will pay more to read a 
novel than to read a blog. Even if the blog is three times as long.

  -Shay

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On 29-10-2009 17:00, Shay wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>> On 26-10-2009 16:57, Shay wrote:
>>
>> For some reason I would still call your uncle productive and therefore 
>> you as well.
>>
>> I do sort of the same. I have made plaster casts for ceramics. For me 
>> the process is the important thing. After the cast is finished I make 
>> one or at most a few ceramic things with it. If I do more than one 
>> that is because I want to see the effect of a different firing technique.
>> After I made them I don't care if somebody else uses them too.
>> If I want to make money with it (I don't, still happily working in 
>> cardiology and in teaching), I need somebody else to help me.
> 
> Money? Turning a lot of time into a little bit of money isn't what I had 
> in mind.

It was just an expression that I am not cut out for production work either.

> I should know more about ceramics. I've seen three generations of my 
> family work with them. 

There are two main things in ceramics. One is thinking of an interesting 
shape and creating it (or just improvise and say afterwards that was 
what you intended, but that wouldn't be our style, isn't it?) Seeing 
your POV work suggests that you'd be amazing at that.
The other is glazing and firing. That is just experience, you might 
still be able to get a decent start from your family.
Startup costs are small if there is still a oven hanging around 

you think that the shapes are worth finishing.


> But, I don't, so I'll have to explain myself 
> through my own areas of knowledge and allow you to draw the parallels.
> 
> Two of my long-term interests have been POV-Ray and songwriting. POV-Ray 
> is a "rewards of doing" interest. I don't usually show my pictures to 
> anyone (even my wife) outside of this newsgroup and recognize that the 
> subtleties on which I spend so much time are there for the benefit of 
> making me happy. I can do difficult things in POV-Ray, but beating WOW 
> is probably pretty difficult to and no one is going to care beyond the 
> person doing it. Both POV-Ray and WOW are done by people sitting by 
> themselves in front of their computers for hours on end and the joy of 
> "beating" either is very short-lived.
> 
> Songwriting is, however, a "rewards of having done" interest. I don't 
> enjoy the act as much, but don't mind saying that I'm very good at it 
> and can creative impressive work in a short amount of time. Having done 
> this, I can then share the work with musicians as we develop the song to 
> completion. Friends /ask/ to hear songs I have written and the 
> recordings are as or more exciting to the musicians performing them as 
> they are to me.
> 
> I'm just extroverted enough to enjoy that recognition, but not 
> extroverted enough to be motivated by it, so my experiments with 
> "rewards of having done" activities are moving at a very slow pace.
> 
> ....... Just though of another analogy. People will pay more to read a 
> novel than to read a blog. Even if the blog is three times as long.

Not your point, but do you think that will change with electronic paper?

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