clipka escreveu:
> nemesis <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>>> So say again, who chose this interpretation of "derivative work"?
>>>
>>> The software authors? I doubt.
>> They chose it when accepted contributing to a software project born out
>> of the FSF efforts.
> 
> I'm not sure about the history of the GCC code; however, what you say would mean
> that no single line of source code existed to start with before the GCC project
> was launched as a GPL project, and no single line of source code was taken from
> other, truly free software.
> 
> I seriously doubt that this is the case.

http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/History

Simply googling for "history of gcc" suffices.  After failing to grab a 
proper free compiler, Stallman wrote one from scratch, though adapting a 
C front end from one of the previous compilers.

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nemesis wrote:
> Of course, you can always communicate with it via IPC.  When it's a 
> single process, it's a single process.

Somehow, I don't remember the license talking about a "process".

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

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nemesis wrote:
> What is more free?  Something that takes measures to always be free or 
> something that is so free that even allows something to not be free 
> anymore?

Something released under the MIT license is always free.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

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nemesis wrote:
> but they used to accept patches only if authors were willing to 
> give them the copyright, so as to "fight" any legal threats.  How evil 
> is that, huh? ;)

Pretty evil, if you later want to release it under a different license.
-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

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nemesis wrote:
> Warp escreveu:
>>   By not being as free as it advertises to be.
> 
> I see it like as in:  "so free that won't let otherwise"

	There was once a country that had unlimited freedom of speech. They
banned anyone from ever uttering any notions that suggested that some
speech should be limited.

	Speech was "so free that they wouldn't let otherwise"

	There was another country where you could use your earnings to buy
anything you could afford. You were free to do whatever you wanted with
your money, as long as you didn't give give that money to anyone from
another country, nor spend the money outside your country. If someone
from outside gave you money, you were allowed to keep it.

	You could do whatever you wanted with the money, as long as you didn't
do whatever you weren't allowed to. It was so free.

	A cell phone company provided the ultimate freedom: You could use their
service to call whoever you wanted at *no* cost whatsoever, as long you
only called other Sprint lines. You could, of course, receive calls from
Sprint phones, but those who called you would then be forced to the
Sprint plan. Additionally, once you got a Sprint phone, the law forbade
you from ever switching to any other company.

	It was truly free.

-- 
"Apple I" (c) Copyright 1767, Sir Isaac Newton.


                    /\  /\               /\  /
                   /  \/  \ u e e n     /  \/  a w a z
                       >>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
                                   anl

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
> > What is more free?  Something that takes measures to always be free or
> > something that is so free that even allows something to not be free
> > anymore?
>
> Something released under the MIT license is always free.

gcc evolution is guaranteed by requiring that all modifications and bug fixes
are too released under the same GPL, thus, free.  I suspect there's no gcc BSD
equivalent because good code in it would likely be a basis for much better
commercial equivalents, who wouldn't be required by the license to give away
modified code.

GPL'd software seems to evolve much faster than BSD software.  You may tell it's
because of GPL's damned "viral" behaviour, but it's exactly what guarantees the
continual perfecting of GPL'd code, since it can't be made non-free and
powering leeches.

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
> > but they used to accept patches only if authors were willing to
> > give them the copyright, so as to "fight" any legal threats.  How evil
> > is that, huh? ;)
>
> Pretty evil, if you later want to release it under a different license.

Indeed.  But then you realize your contribution is just a grain of sand among
many others and you wouldn't be able to do it even if each copyright holder
remained with their respective copyrights without their consent -- specially if
you're planning for a commercial license.  And then, you also realize it's your
choice to try to improve this free software project where everyone benefits or
apply your patch to some non-existent, non-GPL equivalent.  Or simply dig
Visual Studio.

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Mueen Nawaz <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
> > Warp escreveu:
> >>   By not being as free as it advertises to be.
> >
> > I see it like as in:  "so free that won't let otherwise"
>
>  There was once a country that had unlimited freedom of speech. They
> banned anyone from ever uttering any notions that suggested that some
> speech should be limited.
>
>  Speech was "so free that they wouldn't let otherwise"
>
>  There was another country where you could use your earnings to buy
> anything you could afford. You were free to do whatever you wanted with
> your money, as long as you didn't give give that money to anyone from
> another country, nor spend the money outside your country. If someone
> from outside gave you money, you were allowed to keep it.
>
>  You could do whatever you wanted with the money, as long as you didn't
> do whatever you weren't allowed to. It was so free.
>
>  A cell phone company provided the ultimate freedom: You could use their
> service to call whoever you wanted at *no* cost whatsoever, as long you
> only called other Sprint lines. You could, of course, receive calls from
> Sprint phones, but those who called you would then be forced to the
> Sprint plan. Additionally, once you got a Sprint phone, the law forbade
> you from ever switching to any other company.
>
>  It was truly free.

Nice anecdote. :)

So, any freedoms come with restrictions of one kind or another to it, huh? ;)

I still prefer country 2. ;)

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nemesis wrote:
> I see it like as in:  "so free that won't let otherwise"

You're about 25 years too late with this.  "We restrict you so you can be free!"

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

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nemesis wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> nemesis wrote:
>>> What is more free?  Something that takes measures to always be free or
>>> something that is so free that even allows something to not be free
>>> anymore?
>> Something released under the MIT license is always free.
> 
> gcc evolution is guaranteed by requiring that all modifications and bug fixes
> are too released under the same GPL, thus, free.

That's incorrect, as you've repeatedly pointed out.

MIT licensed code is always free to do whatever you want with it. Whether 
that's a good thing or a bad thing is a different question. You're arguing 
that the GPL is "more free" than the MIT license, and this is just factually 
incorrect. It has more restrictions than software licensed with the MIT 
license and software released as GPL can be used for fewer purposes.

When I argue that the MIT license is more free and has fewer restrictions, 
it's not a counter-argument to point out that GPL leads to better code. Any 
more than arguing slavery is less free than sufferage is countered by the 
fact that cotton costs less if you have slaves to pick it.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

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